The Real Reason Why Prometheus and Alien: Covenant SUCK

[@storyrant]

Eric's Links: Free cosmic horror ebook: dl.bookfunnel.com/1cw07o2uyb Links to Books and Socials: linktr.ee/EricMalikyte

[@JordanDavis-l8f]

So because you don't like that Jesus is replaced with the emissary in this timeline and you don't like that the engineers hate us for crucifying him... You're upset? Even the black goo is starting to round out as a plot point, it's smoothing out fine. Those movies failed to deliver nothing more, it's only through expanded media that we've learned to like the small details. I'm surprised you didn't point to the fact but they can't decide if the engineers are hundreds of thousands or billions of years old

[@JordanDavis-l8f]

I mean my opinion the engineers are an awful lot more believable than the space jockeys. But I have to say you're analysis of the universe that Ridley Scott created isn't actually as much Ridley Scott's doing. Reedley Scott did not have much to do with the comics and Ridley Scott did not have a lot to do with aliens. Ridley fleshed out this alien organism and what its basic life cycle was as well as the Androids and the company and the human need for survival. James is the one that further went into the Marine aspect of it and the military response. Personally it seems like you just harken back to the comics and to say that Ridley Scott misses a mark he was once hitting isn't exactly correct it's more to say that many different people have created the franchise we know today and that Ridley Scott only had a small part to do with it hence why he might not have been prepared to reboot it at the time Although I still have no idea why Vickers just ran in a straight line from that ship as it was rolling towards her But one thing I do like is that the black goo is how they grow those ships Those ships come from biological material

[@JordanDavis-l8f]

No unfortunately dealing with cosmic forces is usually something along the lines of Science fiction space gods Alien is a biological parasite and everything in Alien is very very science-based and is understood by the audience There is no Cthulhu It is not exactly cosmic horror it is too realistic, It is actually realistic enough that it can only really stand out as sci-fi horror considering the closest we get to the alien being an indescribable entity by sciences terms is when we get to the queen mother who might not even be Canon anymore Some of the comics are cosmic horror yes but the main series isn't

[@JordanDavis-l8f]

There is no sense of terror at the fear of the scientifically unknowable. Every other cosmic horror I've looked into has never used something that could be a real organism Although the aliens being a psychic entity might be close to that

[@storyrant]

@@JordanDavis-l8f It seems you didn't really understand this video. I never said that I disliked that Jesus was replaced by an Engineer emissary. I was pointing out that the very idea of Space Jesus is dumb. It's dumb idea. Whether you think the Engineers are more realistic than the Space Jockey fossil in the original film doesn't matter. The point is they do not match the themes and tone of the original film and the creator's (Dan O'Bannon) vision. And again, as I mentioned in my first video on the subject, black goo was originally William Gibson's idea for Alien 3. I don't have a problem with it if it's done right.

[@simonlaurila2702]

A quick note on the whole taking off their helmet because the air is breathable thing: When I was working construction and we were doing renovations or demolition inside old buildings, we weren't allowed within 30m of the job site without our respirators on. Not because the atmosphere in an old house might not be breathable, a HEPA filter wouldn't do much against that anyway, but because of potential asbestos, old fibreglass, or mould spores. See, when you go into an ancient alien temple, you don't know if their dust is just the same as our nice, breathable skin flakes and dead microorganisms, or if a silicon based lifeform's dandruff is literal glass nano-shuriken that'll shred your lungs from breathing it in. And that's not getting into fungal spores that might be parasitic.

[@storyrant]

Excellent point!

[@storyrant]

I was so mad when I couldn't find a clip for that scene.

[@mrdavman13]

Also viruses that could potentially be airborne. Measles for example can last for hours stranded in the air. Imagine something that could stay viable for thousands of years in the air, or after you start walking around and make dust fly up. It’s just stupid in so many ways

[@alexandresobreiramartins9461]

It's a scritp written by little children in the bodies of adults... the worst kind of idiot possible.

[@Fenris77]

Good point.

[@reverenddmo8944]

My problem with Prometheus is a really simple one: if these aliens that seeded life across the galaxy billions of years ago, essentially being as close to deities to ants like ourselves, and have spanned potentially the entire galaxy doing this, why can't they make a jar that doesn't leak?

[@forgotten1s]

Thats hilarious to think about

[@enetlocal]

In general in the alien series the humans have always been the dumb fhcks lol.. Engineers too 😂

[@qvalue9982]

Actually it's not known that it was a leaky jar it could have been a saboteur or one of a million things. it's only known that "it got out, end of story. Period" In the words of the ship captain.

[@NicholasMarshall]

@@qvalue9982 for materials this hazardous it breaks my suspension of disbelief that more wasn't done to make it safe to transport. If the downfall of the engineers was supposed to be their arrogance it needs to show that. And not show us incompetence.

[@danielled8665]

My thing is; it's fiction, and it's meant to be fiction. It's a fictional world. We don't have the same troubles with the weird Transformers version, because it's obviously fake. It takes conspiracy theories and goes "what would the world look like if it were true?" There's a lot of films like that. 2012, for example. That Kong one with the hollow earth. It's just that a lot of people have an issue telling fictional "what if" stories, from actual science with evidence based theories.

[@comentedonakeyboard]

Taking inspiration from Ancient Aliens explains how this movie takes up themes from the Epic of Gilgamesh/Enuma Elish (namely the conflict between creator and creation) while at the same time missing the same themes.

[@storyrant]

Yeah. Scott's not really a writer, and the writers he brought on board weren't particularly good in the first place, so this confusion in themes was bound to happen.

[@franklin519]

So the engineers seeded Earth a billion years ago and at the time of Prometheus they are still using suspended animation and pretty much the same tech. Tech advancement over a billion years would be unrecognizable and seem to us like magic. I don't buy the story.

[@RandomAccessMammeries]

I had no idea guillermo del toro was going to make an at the mountains of madness movie.... nor did I know that it was not greenlit due to Prometheus... I now have a lifelong hatred of a movie I already didn't enjoy! Thanks for that lmao!

[@storyrant]

James Wan is apparently trying to get a Call of Cthulhu film made, so fingers crossed on that one.

[@AlgernonBrosplitz]

​@@storyrantno, please keep cookie cutter jump scare trite garbage producer Wan as far away from Lovecraft as possible

[@stellviahohenheim]

​@@AlgernonBrosplitzHollywood have too much ego to just follow the source

[@storyrant]

I mean, yeah, James Wan does make horror films with jump scares...in a genre where that's applicable, but there's no denying his skill with certain aspects of Insidious and parts of the Conjuring films (other than Ed and Lorain Warren being made out to be heroes, I really dislike how that series has mythologized them). There are some genuinely good scares in the first couple entries of both series than do not rely on jump scares. I think it's possible Wan could do a good job with the Call of Cthulhu, but it's got to be done right and have some strong characters (since Lovecraft's character are basically self-inserts).

[@NextToToddliness]

Prometheus & Covenant: Have your gods and eat them too.

[@storyrant]

Who doesn't love jello?

[@phangkuanhoong7967]

Ancient Aliens has done immense harm to the global public's perception and understanding of archelogy as a science, as well history in general. I hate it.

[@storyrant]

Yes. It is terrible.

[@Khannea]

It has a very coarse trump like quality.

[@SupremeGreatGrandmaster]

@@Khannea Give it a rest, hippy. No one likes a sore loser.

[@curtcoeurdelion]

Archeology has discredited itself long ago by their constant negligence of factual discoveries and evidence because of political and ideological reasons. That has made „mainstream archeology“ basically a borderline pseudo-science by now. Ancient Aliens has nothing to do with it - only by pointing out a lot of these purposefully overlooked facts and findings.

[@TomTriyingtothink]

I agree also from a story perspective the Ancient aliens aren't that interesting. Its such a tired trop its 4000 years old. Descovering that humans are created by some superior entety isn't that much of a surprise beacause most humans already belive that. Also its been done so many times it dosen't feel like a plot twist. I feel like if you wan't to make a story about Ancient aliens you kinda have to write it from the aliens perspective. Imagine the dramatic irony you could create with a group of aliens teaching humans how to build the Romane empire or the pyramids and thinking " great these civalizations will last forever."

[@JinKee]

Ridley Scott is great at production design but he can’t write to save himself. He needs a good scriptwriter who can stand up to him and tell him when he’s being dumb.

[@nedmaster1000]

Case and point. Every single person who worked on Blade Runner says Deckard is human except Ridley Scott

[@JinKee]

@ and Rutger Hauer had to write the Tears in Rain speech in his trailer because the shooting script just had placeholder text for roy batty’s death scene.

[@drakinkoren]

If you ever see JJ Abrams or Damon Lindelhoff with writer credits on anything, expect a unsolved and unsolvable mystery box or a poorly thought out chain of events because wouldn't they be cool. Abrams is a good director, good as producer etc, but not as a writer. I wish i knew this when going to see prometheus, but alas, it takes a while to spot the common thread in terrible movies and tv shows!

[@ipot399]

What I read was that Lindelof was brought on as a script doctor, and after his "treatment", the script made even less sense than before. And Ridley Scott, in his older years, just doesn't give a shit anymore, shrugged his shoulders and just went with it.

[@bestbytes-x3v]

Thanks to scott, we have alien, and thanks to scott, the alien franchise dies.

[@storyrant]

Oof.

[@frankthetank8050]

This is the eternal tragedy of life. It’s the same with women

[@Blizofoz45]

Prometheus took a left turn because unlike dumb Alien fans, Scott wanted to bring back the element of surprise. If a character sticks their face up to an Alien egg, you already know what's coming. Facehugger to face, agonizing chestburster scene, sleek black HR Gieger alien serial killer, airlock vacuum, etc. Scott wanted to surprise people and repeating the Alien life cycle all over again would not be surprising at all.

[@majorcoats7777]

​@@Blizofoz45the purist fans want more xenomorph slasher predictability for another 50 years.

[@alltheflavors9673]

Scott has over exploited the Dumbest Ex Machina to the point that his stupid movies need even stupider protagonists to even move the stupid plot along, nevermind writing a coherent story that makes the least amount of sense. All the writing efforts get sucked into the black hole of having to make excuses for the plot to contort and pump along the vain and viscous director's shallow, pretentious and condescending power points of self insert neurosis. A dumb people's idea of a "smart" director and a good dose of studio interference when they realize the error in hiring this hack.

[@PvtSchlock]

Ancient aliens and flat earth are two of the things I really hate. Unsavory is just the beginning and this includes dunking on them.

[@everythingisterrible8862]

"Did u kno humans can't moove big rocks???????" Argh... it's so awful. There's a kind of modernist slash white superiority thing going on to think that human beings in the past couldn't figure out how to move rocks around, with their primitive subhuman animal brains. It also takes away from the magic and wonders of actual history. Like, these pharaohs blew the national budget on making doper cribs than the last narcissistic moron that died. Government misappropriation of human labor is timeless, the Nixon administration did a small disservice to humanity with the space shuttle and potentially fatal one when they sheltered research and development into thorium reactors on behest of their buddies who wanted to monetize an energy generation system meant to only be used underwater in submarines.... but nothing really says 'this is a big fuckin' waste of human life' quite like the pyramids do, eh? .... but yeah. Just another narcissistic religion that says we're more special than we are, as if being meat that can think isn't special enough. No respect for the physics, massive distance, and the big fat speck of dust we actually are in the grand scheme of things. Ancient aliens is the diametric opposite to cosmic horror. Ancient aliens makes us into the center of the universe.

[@AgentGodzillaRP1701]

My least favorite thing about these prequels is how they retconned the mummified Space Jockey corpse from the original Alien as just a suit the Engineers wear for some reason.😑 I hope they retcon on it so the Engineers simply found some Space Jockey ships and used the mummified corpses of the pilots as suits. The ship from the original Alien being an untouched ship.

[@JeshuaHicksAuthor]

Agreed. It's so dumb! They're was this cool ALIEN thing that once piloted this ship full of eggs. What was it? Why? How? What was it supposed to be doing with them? Was it a lone ship or part of a galactic fleet? The answers will never be satisfactory but a big white alien dude who looks almost human?!

[@Orlando_from_The_Bronx]

ALIEN has remained my favorite film since its release in 1979 (I was 17) and I have mixed feelings about Prometheus BUT... go back and watch the scene where Vickers and Shaw run in the rolling path of the juggernaut. Notice that there are massive chunks of Prometheus, of the size that can instantly kill them, raining down on each side of the juggernaut. Running in the rolling path of the engineer ship until it stopped was the right move. Other than that, this is a solid video.

[@storyrant]

Yeah, I probably didn't notice. lol My wife also points this out when we've watched the film. Thanks for watching!

[@treborkroy5280]

It's like "Do I run in the lane with the semi truck coming at me from a distance or run in the lane with constant traffic going by" This argument has been dumb since the beginning. The entire landscape is exposing with debris. The only place it isn't is where they are running with a mountain slowly falling down on them.

[@Orlando_from_The_Bronx]

@@treborkroy5280 Do you seriously think that Scott and no one on the FX team or everyone who wrote the script or did the story boards didn't think of this? The falling debris on either side of the juggernaut was a deliberate choice by the producers. You can argue that the whole situation of them running for the sake of tension was stupid, but the falling debris exists in the first place (as the filmmakers' choice) to keep them from running to the side. All of that shit had to be rendered: the debris, the impact and fires, the dust and soil tossed up etc... That equals money and time. Also, a semi has an engine propelling it forward, the juggernaut's roll was not powered and on top of that, it has a horseshoe-like open end, it doesn't come close to being a perfect wheel. It was not going to roll very far.

[@treborkroy5280]

@@Orlando_from_The_Bronx I'm saying them running isn't a problem for me because where would they run to? The falling debris? They just kept moving and would die regardless of was just die right away or die once the jigger air lands. Shaw survived just for plot reasons she would likely be dead as well. I'm not arguing against you.

[@ligh7ningx7]

"Doesn't anybody notice this? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!"

[@storyrant]

Sometimes. Sometimes.

[@mattm8870]

Part of what makes alien so good is the people in it actually behave in ways that are sensible and the fact stuff is left unknown about the aliens both the xenomorph and space jockey.

[@storyrant]

Something I talk a lot about in the first video of this series. :)

[@rogercroft3218]

Yep. The less we know about them, the more intriguing they are.

[@randallbesch2424]

@@rogercroft3218 yet ATMOM has many explanations of things down to what the aliens look like. How does knowing a shoggoth was a slave race created by the Old Ones make them any less terrifying? The same with the Xenomorphs?

[@storyrant]

As I explained in the video, the difference comes down to themes and execution. In Prometheus the explanations actively make the universe feel smaller. In At the Mountains of Madness, it's clear that this is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the history of the Elder Things. The explanations serve to undermine our understanding of "deep time", which drives Lake into a crazed fervor for answers and ultimately leads to his undoing. We have no idea how old the Elder Things are, all we know is that they descended to from the stars and the creation of humanity was a total accident, or a joke, we're not really sure which as it's not mentioned in their murals--we're not even a footnote there. The Elder Things also choose to dissect a human the moment they come into contact with one. They're completely disinterested in us as a species. There's none of this in Prometheus. Besides the sequence with the Engineer head, not a whole lot of science is even done, and it's certainly not the focus (and frankly, with how poorly researched the film was, I wouldn't trust them to write more scientific scenes anyway). Why didn't the geologist makes guesses as to the age of the structures? Why didn't the other dude who was stuck down there do some actual science instead of trying to make friends with an alien snake? The Engineer also just sits there listening to Peter Weyland prattle on and then complains about how we killed Space Jesus (in the deleted scene, but it explains why they want us dead) before killing him. While the general rule of thumb is to "show don't tell" there are plenty of visual ways in how to communicate scientific concepts, but it would have served the story better to have them actively investigating things, rather than what we ended up getting. Ultimately, the whole "aliens seeded life on Earth on purpose" thing is the antithesis to what Alien should be about. If Dan O'Bannon got his way, the Xenomorph would have been genetically related to Yog Sothoth, and that sounds way cooler than anything we got in the prequels or sequels. You can absolutely explore the history of the Xenomorphs, but what you can't do is tell us (or imply) that they were created by the same people who "seeded Earth and gave humans Space Jesus and also hate needless violence" oh, and also, David creates the Alien as we know it in the first film (yes, the film implies this heavily) despite the fact that the ship and the eggs were absolutely ancient in the original film and Dan O'Bannon's original idea that these organisms were like cicadas who could hibernate for literally millions of years. There's a lot of untapped potential for a similar unraveling of our assumptions of deep time in Prometheus, but ultimately the film never taps into that potential, because it doesn't understand what a light year is much less deep time. It comes off as a jumbled mess of "Ohh! this would be cool, let's do that!" with no real thought put behind it. So, yeah, there's a massive difference between At the Mountains of Madness and Prometheus. They only appear conceptually similar at a surface level.

[@asiabrew81]

51:10 There's an old Patton Oswalt album called Werewolves and Lollipops and there is a particular section that's called At Midnight I Will Kill George Lucas with a Shovel and it basically skewers the last 20 years of this trend (By way of the Star Wars Prequels) of explaining away the mystery of things we love, and caps it off by screaming a line that has lived rent free in my mind because this trend never stopped: "I don't give a shit where the stuff I love comes from, I just love the stuff I love."

[@thomasmeglasson228]

My main issue is that the xenomorphs are so much less scary if they're just some engineered bioweapon vs just a product of evolution out in the harshness of the universe. Prometheus seemed like it thought it was brining up all these deep questions, but the answer to "where did we come from?" being "aliens a whole lot like us" is just one of the most boring answers to that question I can imagine.

[@MrChupacabra555]

Although no one remembers the movie anymore (much less the comic), "The Eternals" was also inspired by 'Chariots of the Gods', which was all the rage back when they were created in the 70s. At least the movie made them multi-ethnicity, instead of mostly blond, white people 😅

[@storyrant]

I don't know much about the Eternals. I kind of checked out of Marvel and most superhero movies a while back. Sounds about right, though. lol

[@Kenspiracy664]

I'm thinking Chariots of the Gods was inspired by all the Ancient Alien fiction, tbh

[@MrChupacabra555]

@@Kenspiracy664 Well, it really was 'Chariots of the Gods?" that came first (it came out in '71), then MANY others followed, with perhaps the most 'famous' of them being Zechariah Sitchen who wrote "The 12th Planet" in '76, and David Icke, who popularized the 'Reptillian Shape Shifter Conspiracy' 😅) I don't believe any of this, to be clear, but it is entertaining (why I watch "The Why Files" here on KZbin 😁)

[@randallbesch2424]

@@MrChupacabra555 there were others written in the 1930's and to 1960's leaned more to science than wild speculation and are forgotten now.

[@devonglide1830]

The creation aspects are what bother me most about the prometheus line. In my mind, the zenomorph is the product of evolution, nothing more, nothing less. It's completey different to us (speciation), yet, in some ways relatable as its arrising from the same cosmic soup we essentially arose from. I should add, I"m not that guy that thinks Alien is perfect, some aspects from it bother me, such as the ridiculous growth of the alien. But as a movie, where's there's only 1.5hrs to tell a story, I can put that aside and admire the myriad of things it does well. Prometheus, not so much.

[@SinEater_]

In the another cut they showed that the alien had eaten all of their food reserves which indicates a bit more time and gives it a ton of energy for that rapid growth.

[@treborkroy5280]

I feel the alien is a natural forming creature that had extremely fast genetic reconfiguration properties. They utilized that by creating the "black goo" which they use to essentially "shake the etch n sketch" and cleanse a planetary experiment. Or a form of it to start off life on more barren worlds to begin the experiment. This is what's shown in the begining of Prometheus with the engineer and the waterfall and in Covenant with the canister bombing by David. The murals in the room containing the goo depicted various engineers interacting with weird life forms. And a large wall sculpture showed an alien figure in an almost religious pose. David didn't create the alien. He is simply tinkering with someone else's ingredients in someone else's kitchen.

[@Grogeous_Maximus]

I saw the old video and liked it. Will definitely not say no to a deeper dive with my morning coffee 👽☕ subbed

[@storyrant]

Welcome aboard!

[@briandain8432]

Speaking of Dan O'Bannon I didn't realize he Directed LIFEFORCE until I was seeing it for the first time in nearly 40 years on TUBI.

[@storyrant]

It's been on my list for a while, which doesn't say much, because I have so many things on my watch list and to-be-read.

[@briandain8432]

@storyrant It's weird cuz they put so much into the beginning and typical Dykstra Gore, but filmed in Britain, so although supposed to be 1985 looks more like 1975. But gotta love completely naked hot alien chicks.

[@solitaryswordsman]

Tobe hooper directed lifeforce?

[@jamesstaggs4160]

That was a subtle and clever reference to The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

[@deanjustdean7818]

Speaking purely from a writing perspective, I was watching a video essay a little while ago about Better Call Saul, and something it said made everything click into place for me. In Breaking Bad, we see a man called Walter White grow from a dipshit to an Icarus-like drug kingpin. In Better Call Saul, we see that in the grand scheme of things, Walter was just an annoyance that was the catalyst for all of the main players' downfalls. Point being that good prequels recontextualise things, and do that well. BCS would have been a bad prequel if it had not made us see that Saul Goodman was the real centre of the Breaking Bad Universe. The Star Wars prequels are bad because they not only fail to give a different context for Anakin Skywalker's role in the universe, they actively make him way more important than any one person ought to be. Prometheus takes a story about Humans stumbling across something that could easily result in their extinction and turns it into an alien species deciding that Humans are pieces of shit unworthy of existence. In spite of Humans not having even advanced to the point of being a fart on that species' windshield yet. It makes the "godlike" aliens seem incredibly petty (like all gods written of by Humans), and betrays the egoism that is at the root of the oncoming Human extinction.

[@storyrant]

I have yet to finish Better Call Saul, which is a shame, because I love both shows in that series. You make a solid point about prequels, though. While I generally subscribe to the idea that you shouldn't do them, that's mainly because it's incredibly hard to do well. Maybe I need to think about writing an essay on how to do them well. You've given me a jumping off point there, so thank you.

[@treborkroy5280]

I think it's simply the Earth was one of many petri dish worlds that they decided to sanitize for whatever reason. It wasn't explained and honestly doesn't need to be. Cosmic horror and all. They could explain it and no one would be satisfied.

[@edgarplummer6750]

Those films failed because they had a pretentious director who was drunk on his past successes.

[@jameshose5043]

awesome video, good production ! you got me to read at the mtns of madness before continuing with the video - it was great - you’re so right about the ill advised alien sequels - and the ultimate irony of it ruining the chances of cosmic horror being done right by del toro - one correction: latitude & longitude is measured in degrees and minutes (‘) - the symbol that usually means “feet” in this case denotes “minutes” - also, plural of octopus: octopuses

[@storyrant]

Glad you enjoyed it! I was supposed to rerecord that line before the video wrnt live but got swamped with work and totally forgot. It'll lioely be fixed for the Patreon and super-cut version.

[@matthewsylvester9103]

I enjoyed watching Prometheus, but mostly because I liked the scifi stuff. Was it a good alien movie, no not really. Did I still enjoy watching it, yes.

[@storyrant]

And that's fine. Not saying you can't enjoy it. :) It's incredibly well shot and has some strong sequences, but I find it really frustrating otherwise, because I see a lot of wasted potential.

[@markpaterson2053]

David Lynch got better with age; weird how that doesn't seem to work for other movie legends

[@Ettrick8]

Basically the storylines of both movies were rubbish. All the characters were irritating and unlikable. So many plot holes the films were like colanders.

[@storyrant]

God Shaw and what's-his-face were so annoying.

[@treborkroy5280]

What plot holes?

[@Andyiswatching]

I think both are great, but the people want jump scares from a black suited guy. Don't get me wrong I love alien movies all my life but I love the psychological horror of the unknown and religious take from Prometheus.

[@Moshingpenguins]

Question. How is annihilation not comic horror?? I can see alien beeing cosmic horror but the claim that annihilation isnt, is a little confusing to me

[@storyrant]

Because the aliens and the story as a whole serve as a metaphor for cycles of self-destructive tendencies in the lives of the main character. Thematically it has little to do with cosmic horror.

[@akapotatobrad]

Subscribed for the dunk on Reddit 6 minutes in. A whirlpooling vortex of wrongness. A place where you will consistently find the wrongest people to ever be wrong, across multiple interests, perpetually.

[@MasterMayhem78]

I really preferred the Alien as a natural creature of unknown origin.

[@DistortedSmiles]

organisms don't adapt to their environment as much as the ones capable of surviving might thrive and the ones incapable die... natural selection.

[@rogercroft3218]

The species adapts; the individual organism either lives or dies in that environment.

[@Korra228]

I'm not against the ideas from Prometheus and Covenant in a vacuum. What I am against is them being part of the Alien universe.

[@treborkroy5280]

Why? It took nothing away from the Alien. Changed absolutely nothing about the alien. Just expanded on the space jockeys and androids.

[@Korra228]

@treborkroy5280 it made the space jockeys SHIT

[@treborkroy5280]

@Korra228 What did we know in alien about the jockey? It flies a ship. It has cargo that's some weird alien that looks strangely biomechanical instead of natural that also looks similar to the ship itself. And it died after being exposed to the cargo. That's it. Now Prometheus... Engineers, fly ships. Have alien goo in a cargo like manner. And they died after being exposed to that goo. Nothing changed that wasn't already alluded to by context and visual story telling. The space jockey, derelict ship, and the alien itself has the same visual aesthetic design. What has actually changed from that overall?

[@Korra228]

@treborkroy5280 the mystery was ruined. Instead of being a cool creature it's now a lame ass albino humanoid. Boring.

[@ipot399]

Ridley Scott loves Ancient Aliens so much, he had to tell the story of Prometheus again, as executive producer to and director of a couple of episode of Raised by Wolves.

[@storyrant]

Wait...really?

[@ipot399]

@@storyrant Yes, you can look that up. Ridley Scott directed the first two episodes of Raised by Wolves, and is listed as an executive producer to the series.

[@storyrant]

@@ipot399 I mean, the show wasn't really on my radar, but I guess now I'll look into that for Part 3. Thanks for the info!

[@GiubileiFernando]

The premise of At the Mountains of Madness is very similar to that of Devilman. In that story they find demons frozen in a cave in, I think, the Himalayas. and it's revealed that demons used to be the dominant species on Earth until they were wiped out by angels. Except demons and angels are just two factions of precursor aliens, basically.

[@zeidenmedia]

I see more The Thing in it, John Carpenter's, that is!

[@storyrant]

The Shoggoth and setting, yeah, but Alien gets the atmosphere, themes, and the "ruins" spot on. The Thing is one of my all time favorites, though, so I'll be covering it eventually on this channel.

[@RydarkVoyager]

00:40:31 - Ah yes, the origin of Cinema Sin's cosmic refrain: "The Prometheus School of Running Away From Things." Why is it so damn popular? This trope has appeared elsewhere.

[@Senban9]

A shoggoth is for strange eons, not just for the when the stars are right. -The Necronomicon

[@YnseSchaap]

Why is it so hard to make a good Lovecraft movie when we have a complete storyboard here

[@storyrant]

Hollywood is too scared to throw money at the genre, unfortunately. The best we can do is independent projects like The Void.

[@TomTriyingtothink]

I feel like we could just tell them its a marvel comic. Them they would give us plenty of money ​@@storyrant

[@storyrant]

Haha, I mean, most producers in Hollywood don't really read comics anyway, so that could have a small chance of working.

[@SomasAcademy]

~12:25 Yes we're apes, but as apes, we're also monkeys. Cladistics, bay-beeeeeee! The actual answer to "if we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?" is "if greyhounds were bred from dogs, how are there still dogs?" Or, if you want to give a clearer explanation instead of a quip, "we're just one type of monkey, we share a common ancestor with living monkeys, but we evolved to fill a different niche while other monkeys stayed in a similar niche, hence why they look more like our common ancestors than we do."

[@storyrant]

Excellent point. If the video weren't already over an hour long, I could have gone into more detail.

[@SomasAcademy]

​@@storyrant I shall wait with bated breath for your 4 hour long magnum opus ;P

[@storyrant]

@@SomasAcademy I think my editor would murder me. lmfao

[@randallbesch2424]

Apes not monkeys though occasionally a muggle is born with a tail. Dogs are eugenically bred from wolves or foxes.

[@SomasAcademy]

@@randallbesch2424 Apes are monkeys according to cladistics; our ancestors were monkeys, and it is not possible to evolve out of a clade, regardless of what changes take place. Not all monkeys are apes, but all apes are monkeys; lacking a tail is a defining characteristic of apes, but HAVING a tail is not a defining characteristic of monkeys. Dogs are authentically bred from wolves, not foxes. Animals domesticated from foxes are not properly called dogs, though they have been mistaken for them before. Foxes are in a different genus to dogs and wolves. I used the examples of greyhounds being bred from dogs because a creationist would not necessarily believe that dogs were domesticated from wolves, and there were breeds of dog before greyhounds; greyhounds were not selectively bred directly from wolves, but from the domestic dog population that has existed since the Neolithic or earlier.

[@Jessi_vasqueegee]

Love when we get weird.

[@storyrant]

Always on this channel.

[@deathsyth8888]

Came here for the Ancient Alien tropes.

[@SpacePig-u3m]

Promethious, Alien Covenant and Alien Romulus are all absolutely dreadful. The mystique of the Alien and Space Jockey are what gave them their potency, fear of the unknown. Scott made it all about man's fictitious god 🙄 with some ponce fingering it's doppelganger's flute.

[@user-jd4wm3mi8l]

Yeah but the mystique was already pretty lost when Cameron changed Aliens into space ants.

[@SpacePig-u3m]

@user-jd4wm3mi8l Ain't that the truth. 👍

[@mrdavman13]

Romulus was good. You just sound like a hater fr

[@SpacePig-u3m]

@@mrdavman13 I was exited and ready to like Romulus but it went off the rails very quickly and the links to Promethious drove it over the edge of a cliff. I didn't like that "get away from her you bitch!" line in Aliens but in Romulus it is embarrassingly bad as is the REC inspired engineer hybrid mong thing at the end. It could've been a decent flick but Scott ruined it with his input. Any link to Promethious whatsoever and I'm out.

[@alexandresobreiramartins9461]

@@mrdavman13 Not really, you sound like one of those who shut their brians to watch the pew pew pew.

[@Fenris77]

So basically Scott used the same general idea as the makers of "Vattlefield Earth"........!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????????!!!!!!!!!!! Now I KNOW why it failed! Both movies are entertaining but not something I would put on my movie shelf...

[@BucketBoatable]

Whenever someone brings up Lovecraft stories being about humans going insane and being weak, I remember that most characters that go insane do recover and that a human ship rammed into Cthulhu made him go back to sleep

[@xxCrapNamexx]

2012: Prometheus schitzo posted about aliens and ai. 2024 Politicians are schitzo posting about aliens and ai.

[@lordcabrito]

I born in 81, so I grow up in The 80s and The 90s. I didnt watch The movie as a kid because I was too scared, but I grow with a poster of the film and giger art in the wall of my dad House. He told me about The movie and show me his copy of The Alien Behind scrnes book. And he show me The spacejockey. I remember he said "Look, Is a creature so alien, so strange to US humans, that You don't know where The creature end and The machine begins". That blow My mind, The sole idea of a creature that strange make My imaginatión fly for decades and introduce me to Giger, Cosmic horror and how Big the universe Is.... Oh, but Theresa come Prometheus and, no fam, The spacejockey Is a cockpit, it Open and a Big white bald guy site insiste. Thats insulting to The original movie, Giger and Cosmic horror in general and Is The biggest example of The writers of The movie not understanding Cosmic horror, The original idea and having a lind so closed that they needed to Explain it. Thats One of the biggest reason Why I hate this movie. When You try to Explain Cosmic horrror, it end to be scary.

[@everythingisterrible8862]

Cosmic horror can be pretty messed up even with some exposition. Mi-Go not being emotional beings, and will happily 'reward' someone for impressing them by putting their brain in a jar... It can work as long as the aliens are actually alien, with alien minds and bodies, and not just human beings with a different coat of paint

[@iNDY1001]

I thought it was a commentary on the state of geek culture in 2012 and how they revered the Alien franchise mythos to a religious level. The crew of the Prometheus were a stand in for the really wealthy fans who kept badgering the stand in for the authors of the original films for more. Then the end of the film was them capitulating with the Deacon...a messenger letting the fans know a sequel was coming from the dying body of the stand in for the original authors. Then Alien covenant had the androids office scattered with all the same research the original creature designers used back the 1970's to design the life cycle of the starbeast in the original film.

[@storyrant]

I mean, I could see why you would think that. But, unfortunately, from what I have read, Scott was just all in on ancient astronauts. The rest of that is just lackluster writing chops. :/ We see a clear difference when Scott helms a film like The Martian, where he has no control over the story, and the Alien prequels. He's a fantastic director, but absolutely should not be in charge of the writing of scripts or worldbuilding.

[@iNDY1001]

@@storyrant Well that's the thing, I love the Alien series, but the best one in recent memory is a series Raised By Wolves (2020), an homage and remixing the ideas the original film series with its own very unique identity. That was a show supported by Ridley Scott and I'm miffed that it only got two seasons. It had such an intricate deep lore to the show and looked at the world from the point of view of the androids and this insane post-apocalyptic energy of actually surviving when you have to rebuild right from that start with almost nothing. Not to mention it had the most 2020 intro sequence and score that set a perfect tone.

[@SupremeGreatGrandmaster]

"a commentary on the state of geek culture in 2012" Nobody is buying tickets to that.

[@Orphoid]

Good video. I feel like I learned a lot from your comparison to the Lovecraft Novella. I don’t agree with a lot of your opinions but I agree that the films are very flawed. I think the ancient aliens/engineers could have been done in a better way. I think both movies didn’t live up to what they were trying to pull off.

[@storyrant]

^The right way to disagree. :D Thanks for watching!

[@cbecht]

@24:34 "probable latitude 76° 16 ft" In the context of latitude and longitude, that symbol indicates "minutes" not "feet". en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degree_(angle)#Subdivisions

[@storyrant]

Yeah, I was supposed to re-record that bit, but it slipped my mind with everything going on last week. I didn't remember until the video went live. I'll fix it in the super cut of all the videos in the series, whenever that comes out.

[@stevenoconnor3256]

Alien was a simple movie based mostly on 1950s scifi horror films and that's way it works.The whole plot is from It from beyond space and it's not the only film it takes from. Keeping things mostly unknown was a good thing. Hanted house in space type story done really well is the appeal. Comic horror is an element but a small element of the whole.

[@NUCLEARDASH]

Puttinc COSMIC horror lile an Small element is hilarious

[@stevenoconnor3256]

@@NUCLEARDASH At the end of the day a big bug/man/dick on a ship killing people in suspenseful ways is the main drive of the horror. The thing, invasion of the body snatchers, and the fly are far more existential. One, in the future aliens are the norm and expected. Two , if it was set in the present it would be more existential as no one has proven life exists outside of earth and religion is common. Aliens in a sci-fi setting are the norm and I doubt religion would even be common in the future. Even Forbidden planet does a better job of tying the monster to the psychology of its characters. Halloween does too.The characters in Alien are simple and so is the plot.

[@markroff1012]

Really enjoyed, thanks

[@storyrant]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@lustrazor44]

The original felt like a true cosmic terror. What in the ever living fuck exists out there? Why is it THIS thing? Then Cameron made them oversized ants Then Scott made them….well not scary and giant inflated white aliens made us…. Yea it’s so dumb. The best alien media we’ve gotten in a long time is ALIEN The Coldforge. It tries to fix the black goo shit Ridley introduced. Which is what appears in Romulus. The black goo is actually what the face huggers are injecting into their victims bodies. The goo metastasizes the surrounding tissue making a tumour which forms the embryo and xenomorph.

[@storyrant]

Is that a book? Should I add that to my TBR?

[@lustrazor44]

@@storyrantyea it’s a book by Alex White. it’s where the scientific terms in Romulus are from. the name of the goo plagiarus priepotens comes from that book. the facehuggers name in latin means evil hand in the book. they also have a name for the aliens because xenomorph just means a creature with no actual claude classification so the scientists give them nicknames. The human villain is also a legit psychopath in the purest medical term of the word. the audiobook is also excellent. it takes place on a station studying the aliens but successfully. it’s an insight into if WeYu was mostly successful. it also makes references to isolation and the xenos are a bit…different being bred in captivity. the protagonist is a woman who has a degenerative disease who is a lead scientist and she gets around in a unique way. it also has a sequel called into charybdis. cold forge is more like alien and the sequel like Aliens. both excellent. they also explore androids in a new way. probably the 2 best books.

[@treborkroy5280]

Covenant has the most brutal death scenes, most intense sound track of all the films along with the most badass movie poster. Cherry on top is the darkest ending to an alien film to date. A psychopathic android with a ship full of thousands of sleeping humans to be experimented on like lab rats at his leisure. Insane.

[@lustrazor44]

@@treborkroy5280and yet it’s a terrible movie

[@treborkroy5280]

@@lustrazor44 Then dont watch it. Is there some masochistic element to watching videos about things you dislike instead of the ones you do enjoy? I don't spend my time on things I don't like. So videos like this almost seem like a jilted lover being unnecessarily vile. Like it's personal.

[@neliiinhu]

Art bell didnt believe what some guests would talk about . Others not only he believed it to be possible, but had unexplained personal experiences that made him as close as a skeptic can be to a believer. He wasnt a cynical on a money making project, he was a skeptical sparked by curiosity due to his personal experience of which he talked about several times in his shows.

[@alexandervelez9507]

i actually kind of liked the idea that the xenomorphs were somehow linked to humanity because it would explain why so much of their lifecycle and overall aesthetic resemble human sexual organs. we know giger designed them purposely that way. i just hate how ridley went about it. he’s a much better cinematographer than a writer and it shows.

[@storyrant]

Yeah, I mean, as I said in the At the Mountains of Madness vs Prometheus section, the Elder Things are ancient aliens too, but they're fundamentally different. Humanity was an accidental creation. While if I was writing an Alien sequel, I'd never resort to connecting them to humanity's past, there's no reason why you can't have people like Peter Weyland believe they must be even if he turns out to be wrong in the long run. I like when characters are allowed to be wrong about things in-universe.

[@mrfawkes9110]

Ridley Scott no longer has anyone to reign in his worse excesses, I'm willing to bet that's why he's only put out 5 good projects in the last 20 years (out of more than 110). He's absolutely lost his ability.

[@storyrant]

It's Georgle Lucas with the Prequels all over again, it sounds like. I just heard from an author friend (who loves Prometheus) that Scott admitted to being asleep at the wheel while making Prometheus and that really blows if it's true.

[@sanctumsanctorum4130]

This is a really good take and I appreciate the reference to H P Lovecraft. "Cosmic horror" is precisely why so many people have an issue with Alien 3: the death of Newt and Hicks offscreen is not safe. They don't die heroically. They're just killed in an accident in their sleep with no chance of resisting or fighting back. The universe is cold and unfeeling and people can just die. Unfortunately, this is juxtaposed against a much beloved movie (Aliens) which is not a film about cosmic horror. Here, Ellen Ripley is an action hero who not only survives a second encounter with the alien horror, she rescues a substitute daughter figure. I love Alien and Aliens but these two films are at loggerheads with one another. And thus Alien 3 suffers trying to honour both movies (it also has many other issues but we'll not go into that). Alien 3 owes more to Alien than Aliens in tone and themes, but if Aliens is the last / only movie you've seen, how do you resolve this? This is why the fanbase is so split on Alien 3. Aside: I don't really like H P Lovecraft's writing but have played enough games in the universe to know the themes and general plots. I will definitely be checking out the graphic novel of "Mountains".

[@Toshiro93]

It's funny to think about the fact that many films that borrow heavily from Lovecraft's topos have faced commercial failure (The Thing, Dagon, The Void...) becoming more of cults, while Alien managed to be both, and being produced in a period where science fiction was mostly an adventure affair, and the height of horror in the genre belonged to the decade of the 1950s...but, apart from Invasion of the Body Snatchers, there were no significant examples of horrors from space in those twenty years between 1956 and 1979.

[@storyrant]

The Void was an independent film shot for $82k, and tripled its budget at the Box Office. It was not a failure. And wasn't Dagon a Spanish film? It didn't have a domestic release in the US. As for The Thing, yeah, it was a flop. But I think audiences are far more primed for this kind of horror now. Cosmic horror has been gaining popularity over the last decade.

[@Toshiro93]

@@storyrant I expressed myself badly: I meant that other attempts to create a cosmic horror film for the cinema have not achieved the commercial success of Alien. For The void, yes, I said something stupid, my fault.

[@storyrant]

Not a problem!

[@leeskolmoski4494]

Ancient aliens does not require putting humanity on pedestal. This is the ancient aliens tv show. One example. I read sci fi in English, Polish, French, Slovakian, Czech, and Korean.ancient aliens is very common in Asian myths. And it always goes through to help humanity understand that humanity is NOTHING. David in Prometheus also shows in the movie with the conversation where he puts the black goo in the cup, how disappointing would it be to find out that your creators created humanity just because they could. Aka showing humanity is meaningless.

[@kekipark77]

yeah, pretty much yeah. BUT, i love anything alien related, so i still enjoyed them lol.. great video by the way

[@storyrant]

Thanks! And yeah, I'll never tell you you can't enjoy things.

[@kekipark77]

@storyrant yeah, and obviously if u didnt love the franchise, u wouldnt have gone to this much trouble to analyze it in such depth. well done

[@storyrant]

@@kekipark77 Exactly. Critique is often a labor of love. Some people will get angry if you say one negative thing about a thing, and I'd really like to push back against that and get people to analyze their favorite films. Media analysis is incredibly fun.

[@PaulRGauthier]

Brilliant review that articulated all my issues with these movies, expecially Prometheus.

[@megavide0]

Really... The breach in style and overall narrative depth and atmosphere is baffling. It's about as baffling as the evident breach in style and class between the timeless original Star Wars Trilogy and the goofy Prequel films -- both from George Lucas...(Lucas even pooped his original films with incredibly stupid Special Edition inserts like "Jedi Rocks".) It's as if genius expires at some point... Maybe (too much) success is a poison?

[@callsignsaint1377]

One thing to note is that the black goo later in the film is NOT the same goo the “creator” of humanity used. As one is a synthetic form of blood from the orginal organism, that being the DEACON that is worshiped as the true creator of life that died and they are seeding more life in order to find an organism to replace the deacon which does happen through the combination of Shaw’s DNA (Human DNA) and the trilobite doing the same thing as a facehugger and having the embryo chestburster take DNA from the host as well. Hence why the Deacon was made and the irony of the creation they deemed a failure is the exact thing they needed to reach their goal. As well as after the birth of a new Deacon the race is whipped out or so we are led to believe as the “engineer planet” might just be another station where the goo is produced and those were a lesser race of engineer knock offs

[@storyrant]

The problem with this is that there's nothing in the movie to tell or show us this. Visually, they look the same. I don't honestly think they thought about this during the creative process, and likely these explanations came afterward through the TTRPG (which I will be running sometime in the near future and making a video, seems like a fun game so far) and supplemental books that expanded the lore...which is basically like a builder trying to fix a house's leaning or crumbling walls rather than tackling the real problem, a bad foundation. Again, to reiterate my point in the video, it is not that the concept of ancient aliens can't work in a story like this. Quite the opposite. But it has to be done right. Their inclusion should not make the universe feel smaller, it should do the opposite.

[@zephyr8072]

I just find the Engineers utterly vapid and boring. A bunch of generic big muscle humans. All male and all albino white because of course they are. No Aryan Ubermensch coding there, no sir. Not only does explaining the mystery diminish the entire setting, it's even worse when the explanation is so... mundane. The only mystery left with all that - why they want to kill humanity - isn't even a good one. Especially when the real mystery is _why are they so bad at it?_

[@SinEater_]

I think you are going a little out on a limb there, bud...

[@NicholasMarshall]

I agree, the engineers design is exceptionally boring. What makes it frustrating is the alien design in Prometheus was good. So they had creature designers they just chose something really boring, and as you pointed out problematic.

[@ku16610]

We killed jesus , apparently is why they wanted us dead. I guess it helps if you watch the movie on blueray as it has the deleted scene which kind of explains a lot of it.

[@chrisbarnett5303]

@@ku16610watching Alien/Aliens: “You know all this could have been easily avoided if we just didn’t kill Jesus!”

[@randallbesch2424]

@@ku16610 so they only used one shot at it? Stupid and inefficient.

[@deadmeat8754]

Ridley Scott just doesn't care, because his goal is to remake Alien in his own image. He was given the opportunity to retcon O'Bannon and Cameron when Brandywine and Fox got desperate enough to give him carte blanche.

[@SergeiKraven]

The Space Jockey was ruined, it was an alien lifeform, a very unsettling creature who was probably the last of their ancient civilization. Most likely traveling through space coming from a planet that infested its society, and was the last of its kind to use weapons of mass destruction in order to decimate the infestation, the pilot was probably relocating the remaining specimens to an isolated area of another planet, so they won't cause another infestation on other inhabited planets, but one of the eggs breached from containment, and the pilot launched a distress signal warning others of a hostile organism, to stay away.

[@treborkroy5280]

My problem with that idea is the alien always looked biomechanical. Unnatural. Engineered essentially. The rest of the juggernauts design matches the aesthetic of the alien itself. The engineer in the seat while yes different than the alien was also similarly designed. I'm trying to say they always seemed interconnected. The engineers used these aliens like a human mechanic would use tools. Or weapons. They seemed like bio weaponry and in Prometheus it's what they're showing. A larger scale containment breach scenario that alien gave us.

[@SergeiKraven]

@treborkroy5280 It has an erupted ribcage, didn't you notice the bones are bent backwards, due to the chest burster? It's not just biomechanical, it is an organic lifeform that became a victim of the Xenomorph specimens due to their predatorial nature of detecting a potential host in order to accommodate an embryo. The black Pathogen narrative, you were told was just an excuse, because Ridley Scott couldn't find a formal narrative logic to explain the mysterious creature that has a Symbiotic relationship for the derelict. Even the derelict itself is an organism, as the Nostromo crew was walking through the corridor, the walls appeared to be organic, with a combination of living tissues through the hall.

[@treborkroy5280]

@SergeiKraven biomechanical is still bio, everything in ALIEN from the ship to the jockey to the alien design looks biomechanical. Similar. okay so the ribcage was bent. It also wasn't "fossilized" because that's not how fossilization occurs. Biomech stuff can very likely deteriorate like biological matter does.

[@SergeiKraven]

@@treborkroy5280 Agree to disagree on this discussion, because Lambert made the assertion that the Space Jockey. Dallas says that the body of the Space Jockey appears to have been dead a LONG time and was fossilized, it made me realize, this implication was what Ridley Scott mentioned in the Alien commentary. This is why I no longer believe the Engineers are the Space Jockeys, I just HUMBLY disagree. The creature we finally ended up building is biomechanical, to the extent that it has physically grown into, or even out of, its seat, it is integrated totally into the function it performs, the entire biology of the creature is that is has a biomechanical suit that's completely organic, genetically fused to its physiology. Just because you disagree on the fossilized conclusion doesn't mean Dallas is wrong.

[@SergeiKraven]

@@treborkroy5280 Also, Ridley Scott is now brainstorming of another race that are superior than the engineers. There's a reason why Prometheus didn't succeed, sure it's a nice film but I'm split on it 50/50.

[@ianrotten4453]

Everybody loved 'Ancient Aliens'! At first.... My brother bought it all hook, line, and sinker. Hell, he even dragged me to the live show earlier this year. Needless to say, I wanted those guys to have a Q&A, but nooooo.

[@rfora540]

Thank you for pointing out the mistake of modern movies that give too much exposition that leaves no mystery! Why does Ridley Scott think this is good writing???

[@baddragonite]

The technical term for people who think a fun show like Coast to Coast AM was "harmful to society" is "stick in the mud"

[@SinEater_]

9:37 And Mel's Hole... 🤣

[@storyrant]

No joke, I remember hear about that shit. It'd be fun to make a visit to that place and run a go-pro down the hole for funsies.

[@SinEater_]

@@storyrant Yeah. It would be fun to go check out a few things that were talked about by Art's guests. I never listened to Coast to Coast but I had heard a few episodes when my ex step mom used to. It was certainly entertaining.

[@docweidner]

I enjoyed Coast to Coast. Never believed it, but it was a fun way to get through an overnight drive. Art even showed up on Millennium on Fox. And man, did he ever have a vo8ce for radio.

[@jbird976]

Prob the same way he made that Napoleon flick

[@AaronTelfordUK]

Money is the answer to the question - Hollywood wanted to cash-in on a (perceived) easy cash-cow and money earner of the whole Ancient Aliens thing.

[@aarondrake69]

I personally love Prometheus and covenant. I don't get the hate....i mean i listen to everyone's arguments so i do but sometimes i personally feel like it gets overblown. I'll confess some of the execution are lackluster but for the most part i find the idea of the cycles of creation fascinating. I don't know how much the ideas for that were just kinda happened or if Scott got it while making alien and thinking about Ash and the company and the crew since you know humans made Androids. At least they're original in terms of the alien franchise and really opened up the universe. Everyone says the prequels make the universe feel smaller but i don't fully agree. I got the of thought but you also gotta ask how many worlds did the engineers seed? Are they all earth like with bipedal beings like the planet David nuked? How far back does this cycle go? Who created the engineers and then their creators? Who were the first race in the universe and if they weren't created then why did they come about? Did the engineers make the black goo? I like that is not overly stated in Romulus, but i took it as Fede answering that by showing how the company is trying to utilize the goo to advance making and idk if it was the intended implication but i just keep thinking of the engineer facility in Prometheus while the characters learn what's going on in the romulus lab. But these are just my thoughts

[@SupremeGreatGrandmaster]

You don't get the hate? Allow me to explain: Prometheus and Alien Covenant are movies made by imbeciles for imbeciles. Anyone with a brain would correctly believe that his intelligence was being insulted by these two piles of cinematic excrement. Nothing in either makes sense and nothing is believable. The characters motivations and actions are unbelievable, ridiculous, and self-contradictory. For example: Alien Engineer: "Violence bad. Humans violent. Kill all humans." Makes perfect sense.

[@walkerineternity2334]

This has probably been said many times, but the space jockey in Alien was centuries or millenia old. There is no way that David could have created the Xenomorphs a few decades prior to the original film.

[@leeskolmoski4494]

Octopuses not octopi…;D Great video essay. Keep making your videos

[@man.actual]

Halo did it right before Halo 4 retconned it to be actual aliens instead of hyper advanced ancient humans which is super cool.

[@KathyXie]

Alien VS Predator is the superior At The Mountains Of Madness adaptation.

[@lordofchaosinc.261]

I don't think it's a conceptional problem as presented here. After all the lovecraft mythos features several species of ancient aliens. Although specifically the engineers aren't completely alien and scary as a creator race. It's not the setting but the implementation in particular the bad story script at fault. Like who kills the former main offscreen between two entries? I was slightly pissed. While sitting in Covenant I was surprised how stupid the characters behaved like shooting at explosive barrels with the expected outcome. I can usually suspend disbelieve and always just ignore inconsistencies in movies. But to my surprise it pulled me out of it in this one. I did consider leaving which happens like once in two decades. The "real reason" isn't the story concept about ancient aliens but because they are badly made movies and I don't care what famous name is in the credits. They are generic boring scifi horror movies that don't make sense while watching and don't fit with the established franchise.

[@storyrant]

I don't think you got to the At the Mountains of Madness section, but this is basically my point. Lovecraft's ancient aliens are very different from the Annunaki. The Elder Things don't care about us and would sooner dissect a human upon encountering them than anything else. To them, we're animals. The Engineers gave us Space Jesus.

[@Aikidjam]

What a great video !

[@storyrant]

Glad you liked it!

[@raymond_sycamore]

Ancient Aliens is awesome. I listen to Coast to Coast re-runs all the time. I believe it all. Love Covenant and Prometheus. I enjoyed Romulus.

[@joshuastrittmatter4188]

I myself can go on for hours about how I would’ve re-written a Prometheus sequel, and how it would tie much closer to Alien and what Alien was all about than its predecessor did. So much that I’d likely take up all the damn space in the comments section.😂

[@NecroLiquor.]

We each have a love of HP Lovecraft for various reasons...... 😅 But the devolution that I root all of my belief in is that we DID NOT come from Apes, etc, or the like, but rather it all came from an "us". Its not that we share DNA, its that they each have part of the DNA that they have retained thru their span of evolution. Its not complicated.

[@michaelcarbone6101]

I thought Prometheus was horror, but Honest Trailers and Pitch Meeting pointed out glaring plot holes.

[@zogwort1522]

You're taking this from the wrong angle. The thing that must be understood about the Mythos is that it's a dark subversion of New Age ideas, the very same ideas that inspired Chariots of the Gods and are explicitly referenced all over Lovecraft's stories (ideas like telepathy, ancient aliens, reincarnation, cyclical history, racial memory, hypnosis, religious occultism and apophatic theology). But more importantly, those ideas are referenced in a 1960s Italian film called *Planet of the Vampires* which inspired both Alien and Prometheus, specifically everything that has to do with the Space Jockey/Engineers. We all know O'Bannon and Giger liked Lovecraft but I think Alien owes more to Planet of the Vampires than it does to any of Lovecraft's stories. The main difference being that Lovecraft chose to make his aliens very inhuman, whereas those in the 60s film are very, very humanlike, as is normally the case in New Age religions. And as much as we like to think of the Alien as a lovecraftian creature, it really isn't. Scott and Giger went out of their way to make it way more humanlike than was originally planned (and at some point it was even gonna be able to speak) but even the original buglike sketches by Dan O'Bannon made it clear that it's supposed to be a *vampire* first and foremost. It's a gothic monster. It really isn't that alien. It's an undead-looking imitation of Kane (get it? Cain?) that still contains his skeleton and is still attracted to Lambert like how The Mummy (and Dracula in later adaptations) is attracted to the reincarnation of his lover. Most of Alien's horror tropes don't come from Lovecraftian fiction they come from gothic horror (which Lovecraft also drew from) and landfill monster fiction. I don't think Alien was ever meant to be cosmic horror. There's no great mystery to uncover, the monster's existence doesn't have horrific worldbuilding implications, the characters aren't primarily motivated by curiosity and they defeat the threat through mundane means with no final hint of impending doom for humanity. Its atmosphere is reminiscent of At the Mountains of Madness but that's superficial, just like how The Call of Cthulhu is reminiscent of mummy horror because Lovecraft had already written Entombed with the Pharaohs and thus knew how to describe undead monsters rising from their grave in ancient temples. But it's not a story about Egypt, and Alien isn't a story about forbidden knowledge dooming humanity. It's a story about greedy people unknowingly bringing a vampire back home, like Dracula. On that topic it's worth remembering that modern vampire fiction (Dracula onwards) is often fueled by comparative mythology's speculations about early Christian rituals, which is also what eventually led to New Age syncretism and that's precisely why Prometheus was given that title, along with Space Jesus and the mural of Space Gaia. Prometheus isn't just an attempt to shoehorn Ancient Aliens into Alien, it's an attempt to use comparative mythology to flesh out their space vampire lore in the same way a lot of vampire fiction does. It utterly fails at that, but that's besides the point. When you keep all of that in mind, it's easy to understand why Ridley Scott ended up making the Space Jockeys even more humanlike. In fact you could say Alien took ideas from Planet of the Vampires but made a deliberate effort to remove what it had in common with stories like The Shadow out of Time, in favor of just giving us a freaky space vampire (which the 60s film doesn't really do) whereas Prometheus goes out of its way to introduce those ideas back into the universe of Alien. It's not that Prometheus fails to live up to At the Mountains of Madness or whatever. It's that Ridley Scott was always (even back in the 70s) more interested in the 60s italo-schlock approach to gothic horror + New Age mythology than he was interested in why Lovecraft used those elements in his own fiction. That being said Prometheus is still a stupid movie.

[@Razalkarp]

I always took it as humanity being a bioweapon like the Xenomorphs. Science was the Engineers religion. But, then all the scripts of Prometheus kind of ruined that by saying Jesus was one of those Engineers.

[@EllisFlowers]

If Prometheus was its own movie I would have enjoyed it a lot more but it being tied into Alien makes it seem so pretentious and self-centered, remove all the Alien lore/universe and make an ancient aliens film and let Alien remain as a primal/unknown horror in it's own franchise

[@MrSamadolfo]

🙂 i think it was alright, i want to see a whole bunch of more movies on them

[@mrdavman13]

Dude. Whoever wrote that “Mountains of madness” can write like a MF. That shit was goddamn poetic

[@storyrant]

Lovecraft may have been a bastard of a person, but he could write.

[@martinroner5688]

Whoever?... WHOEVER?... H. P. Lovecraft... The most paranoid, scared, confused and r*cist writer I ever had the pleasure to read. A product of his time, for sure. Lots of passages of his wouldn't fly anymore in our time, but the horror transcends all.

[@storyrant]

It's an important distinction. Thankfully, most of his stuff's in the public domain, so it's a playground ripe for reinvention.

[@randallbesch2424]

@@martinroner5688 Xenophobic more than a racist but it fueled his writing.

[@robertdawson2743]

Written by HP Lovecraft in the 1930,s....absolutely brilliant writer who influenced Steven King, Clive Barker, John Carpenter and Guillermo Del Toro.

[@harrypothead42024]

The problem is the movie suck because the people who made the movies didn't want to put any effort into writing anything so they just lumped together a bunch of old shit from the previous movies and a bunch of Pop Culture shit that's on the History Channel currently

[@Theyungcity23]

I don’t think cosmic horror is that narrowly defined. Lovecraft for example typically used it to talk about race. Its about the inability to understand one another and it fits in perfectly with the religious specifically Christian theme of humans being made by an alien that we see in these films.

[@Spudcore]

Glad to see your cat is no longer floating!

[@tolvfen]

The point with that intro was that his DNA made the planet the human group visit, green?

[@NathanHearn-ms7vv]

Prometheus is awful. Warhammer 40K blatantly rips off the Alien franchise with its Tyranid ‘characters’ and actually does them better. The Tyranids origin is unknown but its believed they’v arrived in the Milky Way from different galaxies - implying they’re infesting multiple galaxies and spreading like a plague. It makes them a truly terrifying cosmic horror, not a dumb science experiment by pseudo-god-like dip$#!t aliens who also made humans. The Tyranids are as intelligent as they need to be to spread across space without any apparent self awareness or interest in higher intelligence. They are indifferent to anything but survival, in the true spirit of HPL.

[@storyrant]

That's pretty much what the Xenos should have been, with a touch of Dan O'Bannon's original idea to make them related to Yog Sothoth.

[@RubeusArchos]

I like both movies.. I going make this point clear. No has show that ancient aliens exist but at same time no can prove they dont.

[@parcirecords]

Ancient alien's success came from the success of series/movies like stargate.. and that was before 2010.. ;)

[@storyrant]

I'm sure that was part of it, but there's no denying that Coast to Coast AM played a huge part, as it did with popularizing conspiracy theories in general and our modern political climate.

[@TheHitchDawk]

If the engineers made us, who made the engineers?