The Rise and Fall of a Lake on Mars

Episode 171
Every rock contains a record of its formation and history, although usually incomplete. The astonishing details of a stack of rocks in Jezero crater known as Kodiak butte, now reveal the comings and goings of a Martian lake billions of years ago.
Kodiak butte 3D model: skfb.ly/oCyI8
Caravaca et al. (2024): doi.org/10.102...

[@DenisShields]

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[@douginorlando6260]

I really appreciate his well educated geologist perspective in unscrambling the story of Mars.

[@douginorlando6260]

I would call his channel “Mars Guy, the Geologist Perspective”

[@DUKE_of_RAMBLE]

I really hate that we've entered an era where now everyone is clickbaiting and we praise those who *don't...* Used to be we chastised those that _did,_ but that's now too much work... 😔

[@MarsGuy]

Thanks for the good feedback.

[@Alienalloy]

hands down one of the most interesting mars channels out there.

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Agreed!!

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correction, THE most interesting mars channel.

[@MarsGuy]

Thanks for the great feedback.

[@pierreproudhon9008]

Interesting Mars channels, covered by an interesting Mars channel.

[@alangable9555]

Getting your picture on the cover of The Rolling Stone!!! Clever!!!

[@Veni_Vidi_Vortice]

I'm hooked. Call the doctor please.

[@simplysteve68]

Lol nice "Dr Hook" references! 🎶 We're big rock singahs, we got golden fingahs, we're loved everywhere we go, cause we sing about beauty, and we sing about truth, at 10 thousand dollahs a show, we get all the thrills that money can buy, but the biggest thrill we've never known, is the thrill that'll hitchah when ya get ya pichah...On the covah of tha Rollin' Stone!! 🎶 🎶Rollin' Stone, wanna see our pichah on the covah, Rollin' Stone, wanna buy 5 copies for our muthahs, Rollin' Stone, wanna see our smilin' faces on the covah of tha Rollin' Stonnnnnnne!🎶

[@David-yo5ws]

@@simplysteve68 You got me tappping my feet and humin' along. (I was told he just wore the eye patch for characterization of his 'Hook' look)

[@lteht6919]

Another great video with information I haven’t seen anywhere else. Thanks for your effort and time in making these videos. It is a highlight of my Sunday mornings.

[@MarsGuy]

Thanks for your feedback.

[@damonbanks259]

Wow, thx for clarifying the different deposition conditions! Mars has so much to reach, and you are our light in that darkness. 😊 Luv the Ziggy reference! "Starman" is my favorite Bowie tune. 😊

[@MarsGuy]

Glad you appreciate both the geology and Bowie!

[@robertmcgowan3352]

Great presentation, well and clearly explained

[@MarsGuy]

Great, thanks.

[@Danger_mouse]

Thanks for the detail you put into your videos. This one n particular was a real butte 🙂

[@BogWraith1]

😉

[@MarsGuy]

Ooh, good one! And you're welcome.

[@billygamer3941]

Ziggy!! Très drôle! I look forward to Mars Guy for explanations without fluff and the occasional humourous bit. Thank you. I hope that your field work is proceeding well.

[@MarsGuy]

Great, glad you appreciate the content. Finished the fieldwork last week. Went well.

[@dave8181]

Mars Guy, you're a great teacher. I say this as a science teacher myself 😀

[@MarsGuy]

Thanks, and thanks for what you do!

[@rickjames9256]

this is an awesome channel

[@MarsGuy]

Thanks for saying so.

[@petramitchell7162]

That was incredibly interesting! Thanks for explaining this

[@MarsGuy]

Thanks for watching!

[@singledatapoint]

Ha! Very good. A Bowie fan. 👍

[@isaacplaysbass8568]

Thank you as always MG; superb presentation. I'm always in awe of strata.

[@MarsGuy]

Well OK, glad you feel that sense of awe!

[@in_10z]

My imagination absolutely goes wild thinking about how incredible Mars must've been when it was thriving. Man oh man to be able to go back and time and see our neighbor when it was alive! Thanks for the always-impressive vids and education.

[@MarsGuy]

Great that your brain is working that way! It is fun to think about how different Mars was in the past. Where's our time machine?!

[@tonycash7686]

Awesome presentation. Thanks!

[@MarsGuy]

Glad you liked it.

[@ctwz71]

Thanks, Mars guy. Congratulations for another astonishing video!

[@MarsGuy]

Thanks for that!

[@tonydagostino6158]

Oh man, love the Ziggy ref

[@MarsGuy]

Cool!

[@alangable9555]

Ziggy’s Martian Band!!!

[@davidgpeterson]

Can I just say that “mars guy for scale” is so helpful. Honestly. It really helps me understand the scope of what I’m seeing.

[@MarsGuy]

Happy that you said it! Thanks for the feedback.

[@billykershaw2781]

Excellent, thanks Mars Guy!

[@MarsGuy]

Yep!

[@FredPlanatia]

thankyou for summarizing this paper for us non geologists. fascinating history!

[@MarsGuy]

Glad you liked it!

[@MichaelWinter-ss6lx]

Woah, guys watch out, this one's a full punch of information! Get your coffee done before turning on. 🚀🏴‍☠️🎸

[@-mike-8134]

I got a laugh looking at the rock mound and thinking it was about 20 meters wide, then seeing tiny Mars Guy to really highlight it large mass ! Well done Mars Guy!

[@MarsGuy]

Yeah, I actually enjoy seeing Mars Guy for scale too!

[@user-zj2qp3lr3m]

MG that’s a perfect description for what we are all looking at. Remember I’m gonna buy 5 copies for my mother

[@MarsGuy]

Ha ha!

[@mozart579]

I always look forward to Mars Guy’s post. Always fascinating, thank you.

[@MarsGuy]

Glad you do, thanks!

[@Sheaker]

Thank You Mars Guy! Super nice explanation of formation of those deposits!

[@MarsGuy]

Thanks, glad you liked it.

[@RyanEmmett]

Fascinating research and great video title!

[@MarsGuy]

Glad you liked it!

[@kevinderrick2787]

Roling Stone. Can't get the song out of my head now. Thanks :-[] :-D

[@MarsGuy]

You're welcome!

[@stampedetrail2003]

I had to watch this 5 times.

[@AerialWaviator]

Such an insightful perspective and awesome 3d model. Nice work explaining the spider webs of water channels on a Mars delta, sprinkled with the stuff of stardust. Awesome reference: "The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars (1972)"

[@MarsGuy]

Ooh, good one! Glad you're digging the Ziggy.

[@adrianbulete]

Stunning! ⛰👍

[@ericfielding2540]

Great explanation of the background and interpretation in this recently published article! The surprise inclusion of Ziggy was a great ending, and I now notice that you snuck it into the title! For the few viewers who want to read the original paper, it would be helpful to include the reference in the notes.

[@MarsGuy]

Thanks! Anytime I see "rise and fall", Ziggy comes to mind, so I had to work it in. Here's a link to the paper: doi.org/10.1029/2023JE008205

[@Rmm1722]

Amazing work 💯👏

[@MarsGuy]

Thanks!

[@rjung_ch]

Enjoyed it a lot, thank you 👍💪✌

[@MarsGuy]

Great, thanks again!

[@robertcombs2480]

Once again I get to explore Mars from a comfortable chair with a cup of good coffee. Sunday morning mini vacation.🏝

[@MarsGuy]

Glad to be your guide!

[@NikiCanotas]

for me, ziggy is new... I'll have to learn what it refers to, love it. keep it up!!

[@ericfielding2540]

It refers to the Bowie album “The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars”

[@Anmeteor9663]

Great news. Thanks Mars Guy.

[@bennyandersen742]

Brilliant, very interesting.

[@MarsGuy]

Thanks!

[@apriladams7119]

😂 the Cover of the Rolling Stone 😂 The geologists out there studying Earth and Mars, you in particular Mars Guy, are the best "rock" singers ever!!

[@MarsGuy]

Ha ha! Thanks.

[@joeltatham5673]

Absolutely brilliant channel.

[@MarsGuy]

Thanks!

[@gangsterdaddy510]

Fascinating!

[@raybeauvais296]

Wow! Big Butte! 😳🤓

[@zam6877]

When you find "counter-intuitive" formations There's a chance to find a more fleshed out representation of this world that isn't earth This is why the good stuff comes months or years after the probe has passed I refuse to tell you how grateful for this work

[@RussTillling]

Great video clearly summarising a complex geological paper, with few technical terms.

[@MarsGuy]

Thanks for the feedback.

[@Joe-jv5mm]

The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust, Now if we could Only Find the Lost 🕷️🕷️🕷️🕸️ of Mar's

[@David-yo5ws]

Shhhh, they are waiting in the deep canyons, in the darkness. 🕷🕸🕸🕸

[@johnmerrett5186]

Fascinating stuff MG. Wonder how many Ph.D’s Kodak Butte will foster? It’s the thrill that will get yer! JPM ⛏️👍🇬🇧😎

[@MarsGuy]

Ha, good question!

[@rayvelasco2059]

Most Excellent ¿

[@MarsGuy]

Thanks!

[@moondogg_monte]

Always surprised by the size of the rocks in the images when "Mars Guy For Scale" shows up 😅

[@MarsGuy]

Me too!

[@user-ek8gs4ij4r]

It's so hard to imagine those deep lakes, just simply gone now.

[@MarsGuy]

Yeah, all lakes are ephemeral.

[@anthonyross-702]

Well when I get a Dr. Hool and the Medicine Show reference in a video about water effects on Mars, I need to subscribe!

[@MarsGuy]

Ha, great, glad I hooked you!

[@jamesrussell7760]

A fascinating story, Mars Guy, covering billions of years of everchanging Martian climate. The interpretation of the clues hidden in the rocks is reminiscent of the best of Arthur Conan Doyle's champion, Sherlock Holmes.

[@MarsGuy]

Thanks. There certainly is some geologic detective work going on.

[@wizardchairman3691]

Gr8 Video!!

[@MarsGuy]

Thx!

[@garyland3168]

This is my favorite science channel on utube! Keep up the good work of educating as to what our tax dollars are accomplishing! Thanks!

[@MarsGuy]

Glad you appreciate taxpayer funded science!

[@richblacklock]

Would be interested in your reaction to the several videos of Mars’s geology as presented by the thunderbolts project.

[@MarsGuy]

Sorry, but I'm not aware of this project.

[@ryanmartin8557]

Rock Record 🤘

[@Ryan-mq2mi]

Mars Guy!!! Just a - hey! - and minimum of 4 words for our youtube algorythem overlord

[@MarsGuy]

Thanks. Wonder if I need a 4-word reply!

[@Yezpahr]

"IS THER GOLD IN DEM HILLS?", just has to be asked lol. Are there any details on the presence of gold on Mars? I think these areas would be most likely to contain heaps of gold, as it isn't carried down by plate tectonics since creation. That said ... there was likely no precipitation either so it wouldn't have swept all the gold from an area to the nearby channels in the first place... This was an interesting watch.

[@MarsGuy]

Glad you enjoyed it. And gold often is associated with magmatic hydrothermal activity, so that's what you'd want to find.

[@David-yo5ws]

Good example is on the Coromandel Peninsular coast of New Zealand. Sea water flowing into volcanic mounts caused gold to be ejected to the surface. Good tour of the diggings and tunnels from 1939. They are also getting one of the Rock Hammers up and running as part of the exhibition. Yes, there is gold in them thar hills, but mining is banned in that area to preserve the natural habitats and landscape.

[@gcc-gwencostumingcosplay]

Thx for highlighting my work here! I just wished you had Contacted me directly in advance so that we would have discussed the topic and settle a few innacuracies. I wish you had shared the link to the paper in the description so people can go see it. G. CARAVACA

[@MarsGuy]

Feel free to correct any inaccuracies. The paper title and doi are shown in the video, so a trivial search for anyone who's interested in reading it.

[@gcc-gwencostumingcosplay]

@@MarsGuy Not giving the direct link first place is misleading, DOI are not trivial for people outside of academia, you might know that if you do outrech. More, the licence of the paper (CC-BY) speciffically engage that when reusing mterial, all credit must be clearly indicated. Biggest stain is not even giving my name and just saying "a paper". I'm sorry to say that, but I find it a strong lack of courtesy, especially from someone in the domain like you that should know better than the usual blogger. For inaccuracies, I could list that: ~1' there are actually two important inlet in Jezero, western being the most important, still there is the northern one too (Sava vallis); 1'26, the hills mentionned are way too far from the delta to be considered deltaic remnant with any certitude, caution should be excerced, the current thought extent is much more restricted at ~2 km out of the current front (see for example Quantin-Nataf et al, '23); ~1'53 : could have also mentionned that Kodiak was on the cover of science because of Mangold et al '21 paper that first identified the deposits (all credits due); ~2'13 the term "pushes" is out of place in this context; 2'26: the 3D DOM of Kodiak is used in my work, but has its own reference: Tate et al '23 pre-print at doi.org/10.22541/essoar.170688831.10785219/v1 ; 3': the illustration here is a the facies table, not the right figure to exmplain the complex geometries encountered there (Fig. 3 in my paper is more appropriate); 4'37: More details on those flood deposits are in the companion paper Mangold et al '24 doi.org/10.1029/2023JE008187 ; Finally, that's too bad you missed the point of why it's so important to observe this changing lake levels in terms of environments, processes and potential impact on astrobiology, which is the actual reason we were looking at these data in the first place. I wish that next time you could just connect with the original authors of the work you publicize. Since your synthesis is really great and perfect for outreach, I'm sure next would be even better by exchanging with the actual authors who might have more to share :) Authors who would also be very happy to know about their work being interesting for public and enthusiasts, rather than discovering it randomly.

[@gcc-gwencostumingcosplay]

@@MarsGuy I have done so yesterday, but seems like the comment doesn't appear. I might do it again later. As for the link for the paper, I would still appreciate you give it in the description with complete reference, because it's not trivial for people outside or our community how to find it through DOI (and doing outreach you might well know that), + the fact that you reused the figures of the paper without properly citing credits is against the license (CC-BY) of the paper. Thanks a lot for doing so and happy to further discuss the topic with you at a later time :)

[@MarsGuy]

@@gcc-gwencostumingcosplay doi.org/10.1029/2023JE008205

[@gcc-gwencostumingcosplay]

@@MarsGuy Appreciated :)

[@kccorliss3922]

There’s a starman waiting in the delta, he like to come and see ya but his copters blown a rotor…. 💫

[@MarsGuy]

Nice!

[@regulatormachine2788]

4:55 what scale could you possibly use on someone who is so much larger than life?

[@MarsGuy]

True!

[@anquelmartho]

Does these papers take into consideration the lower gravity Mars have? I'm no geologist by the way, just a curious guy

[@gcc-gwencostumingcosplay]

Lead author G. Caravaca here: the lower gravity on Mars doesn't have that much of an impact on stratigraphic architecture. The biggest change compared to earth is that you would find slightly bigger grains (caorse sands, 1-2 mm) instead of fine (0.5-1mm), that's all 😉

[@anquelmartho]

@@gcc-gwencostumingcosplay what about the angles the layers of sediments settle at? Is there any change?

[@gcc-gwencostumingcosplay]

@@anquelmartho no, we observe foreset lying between 10 and 35 degrees, similar to that on Earth

[@ge2623]

I will now forever refer to the Rover as the "Tin Machine" 😉

[@MarsGuy]

Ha, good one!

[@AeroGraphica]

As always, so captivating and interesting ! Specially on a planet with one third or Earth gravity. But where did all that water come from ?? The surface of this crater is not that large.

[@gcc-gwencostumingcosplay]

Lead author G. Caravaca here : the watershed leading to Jezero through Neretva Vallis is quite large, several hundreds km2

[@AeroGraphica]

@@gcc-gwencostumingcosplay Thanks! But does it means that the crater was regularly filed by rain (or snow) precipitation?

[@gcc-gwencostumingcosplay]

@@AeroGraphica regularly, that's the entire question actually, difficult to say but at Kodiak we are sure the crater was not "filled" since the water was well below the outlet of Pliva. It was a closed lake at that time.

[@AeroGraphica]

@@gcc-gwencostumingcosplay Always puzzling and fascinating. On the other hand, i think it is admitted that those geological formations are not the result of a short/one time time event, when the water escaped the crater. So even with this low gravity, i suppose it implies a lot of water getting into that crater over time, somehow . It looks like you need a good flow rate to create those deltas. The amount of precipitation could probably be estimated from its area. Time will answer i guess :)

[@douginorlando6260]

Regarding The large boulders on the top deposited during a raging flood; could they be eratics carried on top of ice floating on top of the raging flood? I’m thinking like happened in Washington state when Ice age floods happened. (Ps I watch Nick Zentner’s videos, the geology professor)

[@gcc-gwencostumingcosplay]

Lead author G. Caravaca here: no, we haven't seen any element allowing that hypothesis, + there is a strict erosional unconformity at the base more in line with episodic floods rather than ice carried drop stones.

[@dcspangler8025]

When will investigations get into the subsurface? Lava tubes being the favorable spots for microbes.

[@theeddorian]

The sloping layers discussed at 2:09 are also marked by an erosional discontinuity that the upper surface, which is buried by about 1 to 2 meters. A similar unconformity is visible right about the elbow level of Mars guy. That indicates minimally three depositional events interrupted by erosional periods in just one image.

[@MarsGuy]

Yeah, good eye. These were probably documented by Caravaca et al. (2024), but I didn't take the time to go into such detail.

[@theeddorian]

@@MarsGuy I keep looking for abandoned wave terraces like we see in the Great Basin, but, so far, they have eluded me. That image told me that I just have not been watching close enough.

[@arnelilleseter4755]

Just out of curiosity, the rivers coming in and out of the crater, how far do they reach? Have most of them eroded away, or can we track the path they took when water flowed trough them?

[@MarsGuy]

Neretva Vallis has been mapped about 150 km to the west.

[@ramrod0209]

Good science share! I can understand no water "left" on Mars -- or even a lot of water in seas & lakes there; but what environmental circumstances might account for these suggested large changes in quantity of surface water (on a presumably short-term basis)? Seasonal rains? Did seasonal rains cause all this water flow? Thanks. ☆☆☆☆☆

[@MarsGuy]

Thanks. Here's what the paper says about this: "changes in lake‐level may have been controlled by variations in the water supply driven by several intrinsic or extrinsic factors including: high intensity rainfall episodes (flash floods) and snow melts (either seasonal, impact driven or related to volcanic episodes), breaches of upstream lake dams, and losses due to evaporation or infiltration to the regional ground water table."

[@ramrod0209]

@@MarsGuy Thanks. That shopping list answers it! You're great! ♡

[@JOHANDOMEIJ]

Towards the end you say that after the rover dried up "erosion took over and reduced the delta to what we see today". But what sort of erosion could remove that much material? Surely the centre of the lake is the lowest point, so how could the new crater floor after "erosion took over" be lower than the delta?

[@MarsGuy]

Wind and sand and billions of years can reduce sedimentary rocks to wind transportable particles. Think super slow-motion sandblasting.

[@charleslord2433]

🤘🤘🤘

[@bubblesezblonde]

[@dahemac]

…and where were the spiders…

[@MarsGuy]

...While the fly tried to break our balls?

[@middleagedwhitebloke]

I only have a limited knowledge of geology so the explanation of the deposition in this video was very welcome. As always, 👍🏻 thank you Mars Guy.

[@MarsGuy]

Your feedback is very welcome, thanks.