The Rise, Fall, & Resurgence of Mario RPGs

[@hoseinsalimian1927]

I didn't know people were mixed on Dream Team. All I heard online is that it was the last great Mario RPG for a while.

[@Mystical367]

I think people mostly hated all the required tutorials. I can’t speak for everyone but I think it is an incredible game especially if it didn’t have all those tutorials.

[@BigUzi46]

@@Mystical367you’re exactly right. If they would’ve just added the fast forward feature that was in every Mario and Luigi game on the 3ds after it, Dream Team would undeniably be a classic. It’s a great game to play through the first time, but it is difficult to come back to for multiple playthroughs.

[@jaretco6423]

​@Mystical367 It's has severe pacing issue. That's the problem. And it's not just overbundents of tutorials. It has many filler progression that you have to do instead of being an option for side quest or something and it really drags the game down. Also, it's just the worst Bowser's Inside Story.

[@Mystical367]

@@jaretco6423 eh but I like all that “filler” and I always found the dream world more fun then bowser. Bowser was good but to me the gameplay always felt slow in bowser.

[@jaretco6423]

@Mystical367 The filler parts has nothing to do that involves the plotlines and they are mandatory to progress. If they would've been an option for side fetch or something, than it wouldn't killed off an pacing. Along with the tutorials. But even than, the game is longer than any other Mario & Luigi game and that's my main complaint about it. The game drags and can cause some lack of replay values. Also the whole Dreamy World & anything that tries to replicate Bowser's Inside Story are pretty underwhelming compared to Bowser's body & other things that it does better and Bowser does get upgrades to move faster like the dash punch and other things. The only thing Dream Team does do better than Bowser's Inside Story are how they handle the Giant Battles. But even than, Luigi's gaint battle goes out longer than Bowser's giant fight was. Although the giant fight against Bowser & Luigi were pretty cool. Bowser's Inside Story is also an shorter game than Dream Team; which to me is the perfect length cause I rather play an shorter game than an longer one.

[@Austin-zc9gp]

You probably already know this, but some developers who were in Alphadream are working on Brothership.

[@barelyhere7200]

I extremely disagree with what you said about color splash and origami king. Yes they are very flawed and there is no denying that but saying there was no love and passion put into them is just objectively wrong. It is very clear that there was a ton of that put into them. I also really disagree with you saying the color splashes world is boring. Color Splash has a Colosseum, parallel worlds, a haunted hotel, an underwater game show, a military base, a train repair shop and those are only a few examples

[@geschnitztekiste4111]

Yeah, it’s honestly sad that they couldn’t go all out with it. I was so excited when I went to the parallel world but then all you could find were Shy Guys. Unique characters would transform the game from kinda cool to awesome. And a functional battle system would make it perfect

[@OChunks]

Thank you for saying this. Origami King, (And by extension color splash I haven't played it) are very overhated.

[@keyaunna.]

yeah for sure! the soundtrack of colour splash was incredible.

[@fawfulthegreat64]

BIS being remade on the 3DS wasn't really something that could have been avoided considering the financial disadvantages AlphaDream was already in. For them to make a Switch game they'd have needed significant assistance from Nintendo, both in budget and experience since they had always been primarily handheld developers. It just wasn't feasible. It was either a 3DS release or nothing, and I'm happy we got the remake at all. I love BIS, especially how it uses Fawful, and I was so happy to see all that game's sprites officially updated to the 3DS style. We now had nearly the entire series in one sprite style, except Partners in Time. I screamed with joy when that game was announced and it forever breaks my heart that the rest of the fandom didn't share my enthusiasm given the last "original" game was the sterile mess of Paper Jam.

[@artikoci5544]

Mario rpg is the best mario rpg and it should be classified in the golden era

[@GTPvZGamers]

I like every version of Mario

[@Insertgenericusernamehere809]

So you like ultra smash?

[@AbelBello-zp1ql]

You know what they say! Toast toast toast

[@matthewisguy7336]

@@AbelBello-zp1ql Ayy your legendary for quoting that line specifically

[@matthewisguy7336]

@@AbelBello-zp1ql Also.. NO THEY DO NOT! THEY TOAST BREAD-

[@AbelBello-zp1ql]

@@GTPvZGamers toast toast toast toast toast toast toast toast toast toast toast toast toast

[@Bowmaster-ic3yl]

I saw the quality of this video and I was confused on how it doesn’t have all that many likes? Keep up the great work

[@ZackLillipad]

Thanks for watching!!

[@Bowmaster-ic3yl]

Seeing my coment as the top comment is weird

[@kevinsmith163]

​@@ZackLillipad I should point out that TTYD is a full blown remake, not a HD remaster.

[@wootmasterzorsx]

As far as I’ve heard, from people talking about and speculating on the developers of Brothership, a number of AlphaDream employees went on to work for Nintendo, so we can probably assume they’re doing Brothership. And even if not, the new team looks like they have a perfect handle on what made Mario and Luigi great. As for me, I was always more a Paper Mario guy before Sticker Star. Like, I think Sticker Star is overhated to some degree, but it is where the series dropped off for me and I do still think it’s a bad game. For Mario and Luigi on the other hand, those games were a much more consistent quality, and I really enjoy them, too. And unsurprisingly, my favorite Mario RPG is TTYD. I was losing my mind with hype waiting for that remake, and it was super worth it.

[@disagree11]

Awesome video! Mario RPG games are so good, I hold Partners in Time in a very special place in my heart.

[@ZackLillipad]

Thanks for watching! I’m really looking forward to trying that game. I’ve been on the lookout on eBay, just haven’t found a price I wanna pay yet

[@MrBallerinakaka]

The Origami King Was Decent for Me. But It Was Cool Seeing RPGs Getting Redemption Arc!

[@jemjam4077]

Very well done! Thank you

[@ZackLillipad]

Thanks for watching!

[@RowleFoopie]

Do you know of that old satire Nintendo KZbinr who made sarcastic videogame retrospectives in an ironic tone of voice, with looping stock-footage with an extended Nintendo OSTs. He made that September 28, 2018 video called (Why Flipnote 3D Failed?)

[@comicobsessed9283]

TTYD remake probably won't even sell a lot more than its original release since RPG legs are not great. Not to mention that it definitely won't sell as much as TOK. TTYD fanbase is more of a vocal minority. SMRPG did sell a lot though.

[@gooeydude574]

I wish Wario Land would make a comeback too

[@Catlover_Studios]

Actually, they brought back the original dev team, not sure if it’s called alpha dream tho. It is just the og devs

[@nopewalgames1893]

I really hope we see rpg characters in other mario games like mario kart if i knew i could race as gino or vivian or fawful in a rougeport map ill'buy the game in a second

[@comicobsessed9283]

The Origami King rocks. That's all.

[@OChunks]

Facts right here.

[@Luxembourgish]

It was a decent game that could have been even better if it was allowed to have original character designs

[@gearscore349]

​@@LuxembourgishI've been a little confused by this. Everyone's saying they're not allowed to make new character designs, but... Who's Olly? Olivia? Grandsappy and the Sap Sisters? Handaconda? And if we go to the two previous games, we have Kersti, Mizzter Blizzard, and Huey? We even had Petey Piranha, who had never previously made an appearance in the Paper Mario series. Do they just not exist? Why were they allowed to be made, but everyone else had to be Toads?

[@OChunks]

@gearscore349 They aren't allowed to make new characters that expand off the Mario universe... like for example the can't make a new type of Shy Guy called a "Cry Guy" or something like that.

[@gearscore349]

@@OChunks Folded Soldiers and Paper Macho enemies were new types, though.

[@ExGanonMain]

This was a perfect explanation of the history of the Mario RPGs. Also Dream Team is way better than Paper Jam. A lot of people hate Dream team for the wrong reasons saying that Paper Jam is better. When really paper jam is a pile of unoriginal trash with no interesting gameplay or story whatsoever. Dream Team can be a console level game if Nintendo wanted it to

[@jaretco6423]

The reason I can think people liked Paper Jam more than Dream Team is because PJ doesn't have overbundents of tutorials that you can't skip and other things for progression that causes an severe pacing issue that DT has. Also Dream Team tries to capture the same magic as Bowser's Inside Story with the way it's structure, layouts and other things, only with Luigi. But it was very underwhelming.

[@ExGanonMain]

@@jaretco6423 Dream team’s gameplay is way more fun than paper jam. Paper jam had enemies that would one shot you, and gave us the most boring story of all time

[@jaretco6423]

@@ExGanonMain Eh. I would disagree. I like PJ'S gameplay more. DT isn't terrible. But it's far from fun. The Dreamy Luigi mechanic is laughably pathetic and DT has the worst Bros. Attack out of all the series. I hate using the gyroscope to land it an perfect hit cause how finicky it can be.

[@ExGanonMain]

@@jaretco64234 of the dream team bros attacks are in paper jam. And the rest are so hard to control. COUGH COUGH TOAD TRAIL

[@jaretco6423]

@@ExGanonMain Doesn't PJ have the option to turn off gyroscope?

[@justthenamekevin]

origami king is actually good just with some issues… it’s almost peak

[@adriann9919]

It's so joever vs We're so barack

[@FrenzyFanboy]

Does this mean we can get a new Paper Mario Game that’s actually good and not a remake?

[@kevinsmith163]

Most definitely, especially considering the surveys Nintendo sent out a while ago asking us what we want out of games like Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi.

[@jameskardys3452]

I wouldn’t call this a resurgence just yet. Keep in mind that SMRPG and TTYD aren’t original titles, but remakes of older titles which are considered the best of their kind. They haven’t yet proven themselves with an original RPG title that reaches that level of greatness. Brothership is the final test, and we won’t know the results until November. If that game bombs or even is just “meh,” this video won’t age well.

[@kevinsmith163]

This is a resurgence my guy. Just because the previous two were remakes of old games doesn't change this fact. Especially when both was marketed and sold as new games. Now Brothership I can see you being hesitant on because it's a new game not made by AlphaDream(since they're defunct). So admittedly quality will be up in the air(however I highly doubt it'll bomb). Thankfully, we do know that a good couple of former AlphaDream devs are working on Brothership at least.

[@_equinoxe]

This video is the proof that mario and luigi, paper mario and mario RPG games are the nostalgia effect games. What people fail to understand is that they are not kids anymore and these new games wont be as good as the ones you played when you were a child. But Nintendo nows this better than anyone. They will see that their games now are being played by teenagers and adults and that the nostalgia effect is disappearing, only to take a hiatus from franchises to lounch them again in 5 years and people suddenly love those games again and this cycle repeats forever

[@kolleo7]

love dream team and super paper mario!

[@Big_Dai]

Celebrating too early for a game that is NOT out yet.. Also, Paper Mario and Mario&Luigi games are a completely different thing.. Specially considering they've always been developed by other companies (never Nintendo)!

[@Noshadesfunky]

Nobody is gonna convince me that Mario + rabbids isnt the best switch game.

[@dragonboydarkstrom7358]

Sticker Star Was Ok

[@NeurodivergentVtuberFan]

Technically speaking, Mario & Rabbids is an RPG as well. It's just a different kind of RPG.

[@Mymy_64]

I like how we got all Mario RPGS on the same system now. But yeah, I don't think they want to have 3 different series of the same genre running at the same time so I feel that if Brothership sells well, that's the one they'll stick to considering PM is doing its own thing and M+R's director left Ubisoft so that's series' future is uncertain.

[@kevinsmith163]

They all will continue down the RPG route. All of this is not a test for which one they'll continue. This is to show that Nintendo doesn't mind having multiple Mario RPGs one the same system, especially when they all serve different purposes narrative, writing, characterization, and gameplay wise. The only real similarity here is that they all have action commands. You also have to remember the surveys Nintendo sent out regarding Mario RPGs. Paper Mario was included as one of the references, so I can't see Intelligent Systems/Nintendo just continuing down the route they've been doing since Sticker Star considering all that I've said. Now with it comes to M+R, I hope it can continue(especially with the same passion as it had with Kingdom Battle and Sparks of Hope).

[@Mymy_64]

@@kevinsmith163 Having 3 series from the same genre from the same the franchise would only saturate the market. The all different series but play relatively the same, teaming up with partners to stop a greater threat, while also using action command that involve both jumping and hammers. It's like having 3 different version of Mario Party.

[@kevinsmith163]

@@Mymy_64 You need to remember that they had different Mario RPGs within the same generation before. They can do this again.

[@Mymy_64]

@@kevinsmith163 You also need to remember that one of them changed so that other could be the go-to RPG according to a Color Splash interview. And as a result, turned into a more action-adventure game with RPG elements while the one's studio went Bankrupt. Having 1 would be a lot more easier to manage and market to people than 3/4 of them with the similar turn-based combat styles.

[@kevinsmith163]

@@Mymy_64 That was then during the 3DS/Wii U era. That mindset no longer applies now. They don't have three different Mario RPGs now with different focuses.

[@WolvesbaneNetwork]

Mario rpg fans are the zach snyder fans of the video game world

[@sanzanderteio4392]

Brothership made me realize I'm kinda done with Mario for now. Mario fans just want more of the same Sticker Star had problems (the bland NSMBWii sceneries) but it's a cute game based on a nice idea that makes sense. But fans don't like it if it's not the same formula as old games with a slightly different skin

[@geschnitztekiste4111]

I don’t think Mario fans are against new systems, but they have to work. After all, they do like Super Paper Mario, but Sticker Star throws good design out of the window. Battles are pointless, puzzles are mostly cryptic and they took 100 steps backwards in regards to characters and world. The great thing about the classic Mario RPGs were that they felt alive, there were cool places to visit and new characters with interesting designs, names and storylines. Those worlds just inspired the imagination and I could get lost in them. Paper Mario since Sticker Star just had Toads and Wigglers, they are not allowed to have names, age or gender differences or anything like that. It’s just worse in that aspect and there’s no reason for that. If they brought back lived in worlds with actual characters I would be much more open for new ideas in regards of gameplay.

[@Aktedya1-jt7vw]

I'm not against new ideas, I just find Sticker Star pretty boring personally. I really liked Origami King, but it'd be better with more original characters like the old games. And while i do like the ring battle system for what it is, it does feel underdeveloped compared to previous battle systems I'd totally be ok with an Origami King 2 that fixes these gripes.

[@Mymy_64]

The problem isn't trying new things, Its trying to change them into something their not. We like new things introduced like the Wonder Flower or the Capture mechanic, but it's when they try to either sterilize them to make them more, "Brand friendly" is where we have a problem like Battle league and Paper Jam.

[@kevinsmith163]

​@@Mymy_64 Battle League doesn't have a brand issue. It's issues are based on content and gameplay like Mario Golf Super Rush and Mario Tennis Aces.

[@Mymy_64]

@@kevinsmith163 Look at that Strikers 1 and Charged and tell me there isn't a clear difference between them. The game is significantly a lot less edgy compared to its predecessors, especially when none of the stages have any sort of gimmick to them.

[@sebastianguerrero6617]

This is just another typical old school Boomer view of Paper Mario, lying about the heart and effort put into games like origami king, not too mention lying about the non existence mario mandates, yeah you really don't know what you're talking about Also you're being ridiculous if you honestly think that ttyd remake will outsell origami king when it couldn't sell better than that games opening weekend sales after an entire month, a fact that you conveniently left out. The whole notion of them admitting defeat by remaking ttyd is pure copium on your part and has no evidence in reality. You also do what most old school fans do and that completely ignore or downplay the fact that games like origami king and color splash have a lot of fans who love that type of paper Mario game over the old school style. It doesn't help that the two side dislike each other due the older fans always harassing and talking down to the newer fans. All of the things you mentioned gere is from a echo chamber that is keeping you from seeing the big picture