The rise of a leaderless world: Why 2025 marks a turning point, with Francis Fukuyama

[@garydecad6233]

Outstanding and pragmatic discussion. Thank you.

[@Brian-bw3uu]

Trump has solved the isolationist versus neocon divide by just going old school Imperial

[@conscious_being]

@@Brian-bw3uu 😄👍

[@healthdoc]

You should understand why democratic procedure, however laborious, is embraced over centralized control if you recall history. ‘Getting things done’ at the risk of catastrophic outcomes, is not a path that leads to long term stability.

[@TheGoodShepherd117]

Everytime I watch these things by well educated, experienced people like Bremmer and Fukuyama I’m amazed how they get to the point and explain the nuances and factors that lead to world developments. Then I go to the comment sections that are always filled with either China or Russian bots, or just ignorant people who don’t understand context, nuance, or just don’t really educate themselves on such topics. They act smug on online comment sections but would be humiliated or wiped the floor with ppl like Bremmer and Fukuyama if they had to debate them in real life. We know and they know it. Talk about the Dunning Krueger effect.

[@joem0088]

You can worship these propagandists all you want. And some of them are good at speaking. But for all recirded history the world has never been led by 1 leader or by 1 country except for a very brief unipolar moment of 20y. The cold war was led by the US and USSR but only some would call that the good times. Before WW1 the world was ruled by 5 empires which bought us WW1. I suggest you speak with more humility ...

[@moonmunster]

@TheGoodShepherd117 I read a bunch more comments. You sure were right.

[@joem0088]

There is no hubris of the mind like "End of History" hubris.

[@Drkennethkin]

Why would anyone listen to Fukuyama after he got so wrong on the end of history?

[@Dapicomp]

the problem is, the Chinese don't have to "debate" with anybody to develop their own economy and the Russians don't have to win any debates before winning a war. 😂

[@joiedevie3901]

@22:31 Fukuyama shows that he speaks in language most of the public will not follow. The distinction between democracy and liberal democracy is lost on most voters. Not everyone listening has read Plato's Republic.

[@joiedevie3901]

@@catholicpog7183 Indeed, so it would seem. But Strauss was not particularly concerned with communicating efficaciously with the general public, either.

[@joiedevie3901]

@@catholicpog7183 Yup. You know it! Regrettable to the extent that they obfuscate their message.

[@kshen7485]

At least nowadays all Chinese laugh at him for his narrow-vision and foolishness. Now he drove another “leaderless” conclusion, feels one is not enough?

[@someone-w9n]

This man was wrong on so many things. We are differently not at the end of history!

[@farmannamdar]

🤣🤣🤣 and he still not given up

[@clopotari147]

@@someone-w9n what did u read from him outside other peoples quotes from him? Did u even listened to this podcast?

[@someone-w9n]

@@clopotari147 Yes, but if you read his articles back in 1990s, he was so sure of himself back then, and now he acknowledges that he was wrong.

[@nni9310]

My understanding that by the "end of history" Francis Fukuyama meant that all known political systems had been tried and it was liberal democracy that won.

[@someone-w9n]

@@nni9310 It didn't win as we have seen with trump, you can read "the fall of the west" by Spengler to get an idea on that. Also Fukuyama underestimated post modernism, he said he didn't understand it as a student and now it's taking over everything. He was so wrong on many things, it's really absurd, he still thinks Ukraine can win against Russia, and that China is a threat and that the west has true democracy.

[@nirvaanmeharchand5896]

Great interview! Thank you.

[@VicharB]

*USA exporter of stability" - that speaks a lot on how the conversation will go forward. Lol.

[@apothe6]

Except it is, the us has so much power it has a stabilizing effect on the world.

[@johnkerner6553]

Great ideas and perspective. Thanks Hoover Inst

[@matthewmagennis2072]

I love smart people.

[@TheVafa95]

Where are we going? Short term, much more chaos to such an extent that would cause begging for global unification, long term.

[@xfactor6099]

No longer end of history😂😂😂😂

[@Brian-bw3uu]

@@xfactor6099 literally no offense meant, but how is he still doing what he's doing? He should be working at a grocery store mumbling, how was I so wrong...

[@AWSOM817]

Delulu man that lead to USA disorderly fall from the grace. A principle/system can not be endgame, no matter perfect the vision is, constant change and reflection is the key, not stagnation.

[@joem0088]

Why should the world be led by 1 leader or by 1 country ?

[@Sammi84]

Because of hegemonic theory. Have you read political theory or are you illiterate?

[@joem0088]

@@Sammi84 idiotic comment. Theory is just theory. In several thousand years the world was unipolar, hegemonic for about 2 decades, about a blip in history and its well and truly over.

[@barrypollack2079]

Professor Fukuyama says that violence is out of control in Mexico and Dr. Bremer said that uncontrolled violence leads to authoritarian rule. Is Mexico now or soon likely to become an authoritarian state and how is that likely to affect US trade and immigration policies?

[@ai._m]

Mexico is a failed state, so it none of this applies.

[@jeffmartineau1480]

Is China’s approach to its external relations, fully embracing the Digital Paradigm, which has the stated aims of developing new economic and governance models based on the particulars of each country/civilization?

[@mgronich948]

What is isolationism? It's a reluctance to invade other countries or start proxy wars. And when does a country start being isolationist, when it feels it doesn't have the military power to do otherwise.

[@Vinato2000]

He was completely wrong before. It is hard to believe him now

[@bobiel9048]

Current global political situation reminds me of... Magna Carta Libertatum (Medieval Latin for "Great Charter of Freedoms"), commonly called Magna Carta or sometimes Magna Charta ("Great Charter"),[a] is a royal charter[4][5] of rights agreed to by King John of England at Runnymede, near Windsor, on 15 June 1215.[b] First drafted by the Archbishop of Canterbury, Cardinal Stephen Langton, to make peace between the unpopular king and a group of rebel barons, it promised the protection of church rights, protection for the barons from illegal imprisonment, access to swift justice, and limitations on feudal payments to theprocess maintenance Crown, to be implemented through a council of 25 barons. Neither side stood by their commitments, a

[@eloymartinez8912]

Yeah,, I agree in most points

[@atky7032]

That's wrong. It's the rise of a world with new leaders.

[@rosschristopherross]

The US created the "world order" over decades but the checking-out is a process that has been evident for decades as well. Dr Fukuyama implies that this is a sudden about face. I disagree. It is commonly acknowledged that countries do not have friends - they have interests - and these interests are the inexorable driver of international relations. Interests change overtime; turbulence is guaranteed.

[@kshen7485]

It has nothing to do with leadership, rather the political system. G-South is full of the competent leaders, they keep peace and development for their people, instead of 1% rich.

[@velisvideos6208]

Really? That's certainly new information. Competent leadership in the global south....

[@kshen7485]

@ They don’t have war!

[@ai._m]

Delusional. Failed states all over global south

[@joiedevie3901]

@@kshen7485 What alternate dimension's G-South are you referring to? There are internal armed conflicts going on in Mexico and Columbia right now. Asia has 21 armed conflicts and Africa over 35. Stop with the magical thinking and selective reality!

[@john_smith_john]

Hahahaha yes africa and south america are just swimming in good leadership

[@narrowsuperintelligentai]

the brics economic alliance and hypersonic missiles that the u.s. cannot intercept have eliminated u.s. supremacy.

[@joem0088]

The "End of History" man. That's some hubris of the mind.

[@ataylor7520]

I'm surprised you folks didn't mention the threat of climate change as a factor that led us to where we are. That's the most destabilizing, especially since we all see it every day and no one talks about it.

[@lawrenceralph7481]

Good to be strong.

[@dunerv]

Renowned? Discredited more like it. That is the word most people are likely to associate with Fukuyama's name.

[@kshen7485]

It reminds me his famous and foolish conclusion: “The End of History and the Last Man”.

[@sieteocho]

The problem with "the end of history" is that it's based on 2 contradictory ideas. The first is that liberal democracy is the natural end state of history and that this will prove to be the natural order of things for ever more (therefore governance is bottom up). The second is that there will be an international order and the USA will be the natural leader of it. (Therefore governance is top down). These are 2 aspects of the system that contradict each other. It's like that phrase "the leader of a free world". If the world is truly free, why does it need a leader? And that's the problem with the Americans since the end of the Cold War. First, they complain about this or that country not following the prescribed liberal democracy formula. And when it is followed, and when all the countries have sovereignty, self determination, and enough political power to do whatever they want, they'll complain that it's so so hard to be the ruler of the free world and things are falling to pieces.

[@kshen7485]

@ Now he and his book became one of the top jokes in our human history.

[@kshen7485]

At least nowadays Chinese laugh at him for his narrow-vision and foolishness. Now he drove another “Leaderless” conclusion, feels one is not enough?

[@sieteocho]

​@@kshen7485 China has the Myanmar war on its doorstep. It's doing nothing. Totally useless. Economy tanking, people in China doing nothing useful other than scamming your fellow Asians, stirring up trouble in the sea, locking up the entreprenurs who made China's economy great, kowtowing to your loser president, introducing COVID to the world. You guys are just as bad.

[@sieteocho]

@@kshen7485 China is going to be pretty useless as a world leader too and many of us can see that.

[@sterlingsimms7291]

How’s that history feelin, Francis?

[@allydea]

There is the question of what made US so powerful. Internal resources for certain but there are other big countries in the world that have large natural resources. Influence in the world that translated into economic growth. At the moment, US is seen as unreliable by it's allies, so Korea, Japan, Australia and European star to think of other options. Let's look at Russia war, 1 thing is already happening, EU is growing its army. They could consider the loss of Ukraine a small loss compared to gaining access again to Russia's resources (after all, it is the law of the jungle). So why not declare itself "neutral" and ally economically with China and Russia. Same thing I noticed in Korea, Japan and Australia.. I mean China is the regional power, if US is going into conflict with China, why would Australians or Japan pay with people considering the lack of loyalty of US? If everyone is in for itself, if there is a lack of any common ideology, then everyone is going to be in for itself.

[@marierose6792]

Trust is the biggest commodity a system has.

[@kieransmith1796]

Dollar hegemony made the USA as powerful as it is.

[@HighBoss]

The rise of a leaderless world? Or The end of Leadership? 🤣

[@michelviolot7336]

the jungle is a highly organized and efficient ecosystem for the good of the planet, any comparison to material based human activity seems innapropriate

[@parklilys3108]

Does the world end to the place American elites want?

[@kaonohi09]

You provided answers of how Trump was elected despite his murky past. A “heads up” to a future of bumpy roads. As President Trump navigates HIS way to make America #1.

[@LumenMichaelOne]

or not

[@Dusty-y6b]

😂😂😂😂

[@waichui2988]

Instead of the jungle, why do they not think in terms the tropical rainforest? What is the big difference between the world now and the world in the past? One huge difference is the way wealth is created. In the past, the bigger the land you control, the more wealth you control. Now, wealth is created in research laboratories, factories, offices, transportation hubs, data centers. Any interruption of production and commerce destroys wealth. Another difference is nationalism. This is a world of nationalism. It has become extremely expensive to invade any country. I would like to point to two successful regions. Southeast Asia has been very peaceful for forty years. They certainly did not receive a lot of American attention since the end of the war in Vietnam. Maybe the key to their peace is being left alone by the United States. The other region is South America. No US attention there either. I just believe that given a chance, most countries prefer to live in peace. There will always be conflicts. Only great powers can produce big wars. I am willing to bet that the Zero G world has a reasonable chance for overall peace.

[@michelviolot7336]

we can beat the Danes? how absurd can you get.

[@ssss8162]

So are we at the "end of history" yet?

[@garydecad6233]

Outstanding and pragmatic discussion. Thanks

[@Sussexbythesea4]

Always great to listen to the great fukuyama

[@LumenMichaelOne]

Thank you Ian and Professor Fukuyama for this discussion. ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

[@tthex6484]

The man who wrote the most inaccurate a d premature article in human history. He has the unfortunate privilege of being more inaccurate the older he gets. The end of gistort😂😂😊

[@blafonovision4342]

GZERO world sounds great to me.

[@wynetsang]

The end of history of hegemony.

[@Wo8910]

What they speculate about what trump might do shows they know nothing about trump. Does it mean they are just dumb?

[@kafiruddinmulhiddeen2386]

Yup. They are pretty dumb.

[@ai._m]

Francis F is one of the worst, most useless

[@Tufas]

You don't talk a lot about economic violence - I spend 60% of my salary for a one bedroom apartment, nothing radialized me more against the current order than the way society decided to re-distribute wealth from workers to asset owners. That is what many people do not get - the Democrats keep saying that Trump will destroy this and that and that the Democrats stand for stability and protect the current system. When you don't think the current system works for you and one party says that they will do everything they can to keep the status quo and that the other party wants to change the current system then who do you vote for? You have a 0% chance for real change with the democrats, that is their entire message as defenders of the current system, you only need to give the republicans a 0.1% chance of a change for better and the choice is clear.

[@DC-uc4sh]

Ian, don't discount Trump's role in our troubles--yes, a symptom, but very much an actor on the political stage, no?

[@denisoconnor4175]

Hard to take this “End of History” myth creator seriously with his taking literally Trump’s crude negotiating bluster!

[@philipmccready7090]

Fantastic conversation and insight. Couldn't agree more ... people are losing faith in the Democrats' ability to generate results and they are clueless in being able to talk about what matters most to ordinary people. Case in point - California, probably the richest part of the world, could not mobilize effective fire mitigation and fire response programs. It's time to throw ineffective, bureaucrat political parties out of office!

[@EyeByBrian]

@@philipmccready7090 Are you saying that there is no such thing as a natural disaster that can not be 90 - 100% mitigated by capital expenditure?

[@imveryhungry112]

Things changed. America is now 37 trillion in debt and millions cant fine decent paying jobs. We have to take care of our own people. These professors get paid no matter the economy, so they dont understand.

[@joanyoon4672]

Wow, finally!

[@micahdembo5140]

This guy is working for the Japanese. Only a fool would speak such.