the rise of bimbofication

[@jordanatheresa]

i hope you guys enjoy! time stamps: 00:00 - intro 02:12 - what is a bimbo/bimbofication? 07:35 - bimbofication - a modern resurgence 14:45 - is bimbofication really empowering/feminist?

[@monicacreator3168]

Do you mean you only want sex and no romantic relationship?

[@emmacameron4401]

The KZbin Chanel TheTake has also made a very good video on this specific topic. It’s pretty good

[@snem9381]

Hi! Just a thought: for me 'bimbofocation' is about taking things back that we had to renounce in order to be taken seriously. Like how nowadays ugg boots or starbucks are 'basic bitch' traits, but in reality society just always demonises things that young women like. Even if you didn't go through an overt "just like the other girls" phase, I think everyone raised as female has had to actively reject things society deemed 'frivolous' (like the definitions you read at the start mentioned) in order to avoid being viewed as and treated like a bimbo. We weren't allowed to be pink and fluffy or glittery and a bit ditzy. These things were stereotyped as feminine and then demonised. We disassociated ourselves from those things as an act of self defense. Bimbofocation, or reclaiming the early 2000s feminine stereotypes, is about realising those negative stereotypes from the time were actually just misogynistic bullshit and we can actually do whatever we want. To me, the caricature of a bimbo that we might present is an active rejection of internalised misogyny that tells us that girly is bad.

[@snem9381]

Also, these things aren't actually feminine, just stereotyped as such. Men and non binary ppl can have these traits without being feminine!!!!!

[@snem9381]

Also, it's no coincidence that women prone to being sexualised are more often dismissed as 'bimbo'. Men (and people in general) hate women being sexual unless it's in a way they can control.

[@RJ-mn7rn]

The internalised male gaze is feeling shame in a female changing room if you have hairy legs.

[@blimeygirl4357]

Yes, and even feeling shame when you're by yourself if you have hairy legs. That is what the Margaret Atwood quote was about, I think.

[@jennam4448]

even worse when my mom tells me to shave all the time... cause i’ve let my leg and armpit hair grow out

[@express999snsd]

If a woman says I should shave I feel more embarrassed and self-conscious than if a man does it

[@Eva_R966]

@@express999snsd same!! But i think that is just as much an effect of internalized male gaze. Women often are the harshest enforcers of these types of gendered expectations when they themselves have internalized rigid rules around what is ""appropriate" and "desireable" for women

[@oathboundsecrets]

Youre forgetting that society is ruled by men. Its called patriarchy. So it is always men who decide how we should look.

[@kaleseeds1]

I’ve always wondered what true female sexuality would look like if we hadn’t had any influence at all from the male gaze - would it still be skimpy and “sexy”? what would it look like for women if we had never had that aesthetic presented to us as being “feminine”.

[@aliasjay7645]

It probably wouldnt look much different considering most people try to look a certain way to attract a potential spouse/have sex. its literally normal.

[@alnotbiggaytho7124]

Probably more "prudish"(not a bad thing) men tend to be what start a lot of the more demeaning parts of oursexlives

[@tourmalineyazuli8542]

@@aliasjay7645 true, but men rarely expose themselves that much. Not nearly as much as women are taught to do.

[@meepmoop2308]

@@aliasjay7645 female sexuality which excludes the male gaze can include attracting a female partner. but "what would lesbian sexuality look like if men didnt exist" is a different conversation

[@chickenleghctank3070]

Female sexuality is intrinsically determined by the male gaze. Sexuality is a binomial thing, same goes for men aesthetics.

[@sofiarestaino6537]

"I may be in deep denial" we all did at some point. Is also a part of feminism to realice deep and hurtful things. I'm glad you are noticing that.

[@melaniarusso7764]

I'm just starting to realise that growing up I was implicitly taught to value male approval (in any realm) more than approval from women and it hurts

[@sofiarestaino6537]

@@melaniarusso7764 all women "need" male approval to feel good with themselves. That's why we are so hard on ourselves, we feel ugly according to what males expect from us

[@iheartjbgccb]

@@sofiarestaino6537 it's crazy but we can try to center it by accepting yourself as you are even if you gained weight or have extra hair. Quit as much media as you can and you will notice a difference :)

[@sofiarestaino6537]

@@iheartjbgccb I agree. For example I love having hair in my armpits lmfao

[@beetle_geuse6186]

@@sofiarestaino6537 same! I hate the feeling of the skin rubbing against. And I also think it looks sexy;)

[@doomsday7554]

I don't understand why everything has to be for men. Like can I not breathe without viewing myself through the male gaze? Because EVERYTHING can be viewed through the male gaze, being independent that's a kink, being a stay at home mom that's also a kink of straight men. If we keep looking at everything like it's a product of the male gaze we are never gonna get further in society.

[@KacieRiley]

I have a friend that has completely changed her body or “has been bimbofied”, for dudes validation online and to get their money. She’s a totally different person and I honestly don’t see anything empowering about it at all. Her mental health has taken such a drastic turn for the worse :(

[@awakeinthedream1111]

I have a friend who is going through the same thing. I understand playing with this concept for the fun aesthetics and subverting stereotypes for your own kicks. But dehumanizing yourself will never end well, especially for women. I don’t see it as empowering at all.

[@KacieRiley]

@@awakeinthedream1111 I totally agree

[@Omar_BananaToxin1701]

she's probably not making enough money..not as much as it's worth selling herself..

[@KacieRiley]

@@Omar_BananaToxin1701 she makes over six figures a year

[@Omar_BananaToxin1701]

@@KacieRiley what? are you her or something how can you possibly know

[@upperlogic7588]

the fact that you took it down just so you could correct mistakes/go deeper into the subject shows how awesome you are holy shit

[@palapeura375]

Yeah I mean this is something that I'm used to only seeing in academic circles (redrafting after critique) and I'm amazed and so happy that JT is doing it on a platform like KZbin. She's all in all really smart and analytical and I enjoy her content a lot

[@bonsaiwithluv]

right? other people would have kept the video to not lose the views but she didn't and i respect her for that

[@hazelanicia8848]

shes so mature im so glad shes my idol

[@jordanatheresa]

thank you sm 😭❤️

[@MaxxHarleenMurrder]

so much respect for you

[@milla8164]

Choice feminism also completely ignores how much society and culture affect an individuals opinions and choices. Choice feminism will claim that a woman shaving her body hair is a feminist action because she chose to do it herself, ignoring that there are endless amounts of societal pressure and expectations women face regarding literally every aspect of their lives - body hair included. Women internalize so much of what society tells us that it becomes completely ingrained and we will eventually believe we're doing something out of our own free will, when in reality we have been expertly groomed and manipulated into conforming into society's expectations. You cannot view feminism through an individualistic lens; feminism is inherently a societal issue.

[@pseudonym5119]

the illusion of free will and choice

[@jennali9800]

Choice feminism doesn't ignore how society affects people's choices. It's saying we should reduce unjustified pressure and shame towards taking any choice (that doesn't harm others, etc. hence "unjustified"). You suggest that a woman shouldn't shave her legs because it's conforming to mainstream society, and it's not feminist because it's not reflecting her "free will." If a woman facing social pressure to shave her legs undermines her free will, how exactly is shaming her into _not_ shaving any different - why doesn't that _also_ undermine free will, then? I'm asking sincerely. Because what choice feminists advocate for is getting rid of unjust gender expectations altogether. It means not pressuring someone for making the "wrong choice", which _includes_ pressure from fellow feminists. I wonder if you also believe that it's wrong for bi people to date people of the opposite sex because it means they're "conforming to heteronormativity" and somehow invalidating their bi identity. Because it's the exact same line of reasoning. And if it's not, explain how, again, I ask sincerely. The anti-choice feminism crowd become even more absurd once you take into account just how contradictory many patriarchal pressures actually are. The patriarchy says you should be traditionally feminine because that's your role. It also says being traditionally feminine means you're weak and vapid. So, which is more feminist? Being not-feminine and defying expectations? Or being feminine to prove that femininity isn't weak or shameful? Can't you see how fundamentally stupid this argument is? We don't need more people telling women what they can and can't do with their lives. Period.

[@racismisntanopinion2591]

@@jennali9800 I don't think that the comment was saying girls should not shave to fight the beauty standard, and if "feminists" tell you that you mustn't that's really not their desición, it's yours. But it's not really a free choice bc there's so much pressure from societies standards, so much hatred towards girls who don't shave for example, that the choice not to shave is harder than to do so. It doesn't mean that not shaving is better! I can't say for sure what the person commenting thought but I personally think that it was more talking about women ignoring the fact that shaving for example is something that many ppl don't do bc they want to but bc it's a societal rule... (excuse the grammar english isn't my first language)

[@jennali9800]

@@racismisntanopinion2591 I see, I have no arguments with that. I just see some people trying to "reverse shame" women for conforming too much and I think that is counterproductive and just plain rude, which is why I made that comment.

[@amiera1233]

That’s exactly how I see the body hair debate. Yes, women can shave their legs. But I feel like it’s ignorant to ignore that women only shave their legs because of socialization, even if it’s their choice to

[@QueenHalo]

I just find it sad that society seems to always have a problem with everything women do and like. Like they’re damned if they do or don’t. They can’t win and that’s frustrating to witness :/

[@s0f_03]

Exactly! We can’t be too feminine because we’ll be treated like we’re dumb & have our intelligence be doubted, & we’ll be infantilized. & at the same time, we can’t be too masculine or tomboy because that’ll hurt the poor egos of men with fragile masculinity, & we’re seen as “not attaining a level of femininity that we need to attain”. It’s like whether we’re in touch with our feminine or masculine side we’ll get shit for it either way, we can never win. So might as well do whatever tf we want! :)

[@netflixandbleach5779]

Was it just me or did any of you guys also go through that phase when you thought there was a guy ( maybe the one you were crushing on) watching you in your room so you had to act a certain way to seem attractive? I never knew where this feeling or idea came from but I avoided looking at mirrors when I felt bad and only looked in them when I felt presentable so the person 'watching' wasn't disgusted with me. I feel like it was a way I manifested the male gaze in my own home. Its super creepy how I felt like I was okay with that as long as the person found me attractive.

[@annamageste]

I HAD NO IDEA THIS WAS UNIVERSAL

[@tianna-rhashellebryan6988]

YES WHY DOES THIS HAPPEN

[@zen0vi]

Oh my goodness yes, my whole 8th grade experience. I constantly felt like I had to sit straighter and fix myself up and stuff in case a boy hiding in the ceiling jumped down and started critiquing me or some shit. This comment just made me realize how unnatural that was

[@miscellaneouslife2778]

Hey guys. I don’t know how literal this feeling was for the people who replied saying they felt it too. But it may be worth taking to a psychologist about. Like if you literally felt like a man was in your room watching you and you had to perform attractively, that’s more psychological than “internalized male gaze.” If you had anxiety about it or felt like it was a physical presence(like spidey sense), that’s something a psychologist can talk with you about. If it wasn’t literal I’ll throw in a Margaret Atwood quote that aligns with what you felt so you have something to ponder on: Male fantasies, male fantasies, is everything run by male fantasies? Up on a pedestal or down on your knees, it's all a male fantasy: that you're strong enough to take what they dish out, or else too weak to do anything about it. Even pretending you aren't catering to male fantasies is a male fantasy: pretending you're unseen, pretending you have a life of your own, that you can wash your feet and comb your hair unconscious of the ever-present watcher peering through the keyhole, peering through the keyhole in your own head, if nowhere else. You are a woman with a man inside watching a woman. You are your own voyeur. And also a John Berger quote: Men act and women appear. Men look at women. Women watch themselves being looked at. This determines not only most relations between men and women but also the relation of women to themselves. The surveyor of woman in herself is male: the surveyed is female. Thus she turns herself into an object of vision: a sight.

[@abigailbaxter5530]

Omg I just remembered because of this post!!!! Omg

[@ek1467]

It would be cool if you did a video on how some people that are into rough sex sometimes degrade people that don't like it. You just mentioned what you are into, and I just remembered that on Tiktok girls post videos on how having kinks is "cool" and that if one doesn't have any, one is not preferable in bed. I think it is a rising trend that is quite toxic.

[@sinead6583]

I’ve seen a lot of minors talking about their kinks online especially on TikTok. I think all the super sexual things online has affected a lot of kids in a bad way.

[@panny2917]

@@sinead6583 unfortunately tiktok has become such an idolized platform for these young teenage girls. they're so impressionable that they adopt these sexualized topics and think of it as a personality and cannot physically fully comprehend the repercussions of what they're truly saying. Just to clarify, it is NOT these young girls fault as they're still developing and its only natural that they pick up whats being put down by society, but unfortunately this is only benefiting and enabling pedophiles and creeps who are encouraging this behavior to thrive off of tiktok and other social media apps.

[@missburn]

Yes, a video. Especially why you would even see feminists that normally moan about "not like other girls" mock sex that isn't anything kinky. Kink has become the New Normal and women keep looking down at other women for not being into that.

[@panny2917]

@@missburn horribly ironic that the reason they shame pick me girls is bc pick me girls were putting down other girls, but now they're doing the exact same by putting down pick me girls. its getting us no where and its a horrible cycle

[@missburn]

@@panny2917 Yep. I agree. I saw that behaviour from a feminist who normally is very alert to stuff like that so it boggled my mind to see her say that of all people. She is more of the radfem sort, very critical and not suuuper in agreement with this whole liberal tendency so what even is she doing. I wss confused.

[@pinkpain-ter8412]

I think the male gaze theory can be semi-true. It might derive from the fact that women are always being watched and criticised in society, so it’s so ingrained in our brains that we don’t feel safe/alone even in our own private spaces.

[@goldenknox]

I agree- but I think it's anti-feminist in it's core. To include all women in this theory is a bit ignorant. Not all women fit a narrative. I think that to say every decision women make is a bit invalid and catering towards men is taking away our independence. The thing is, traumas and obsessive thinking can cause that male gaze centric theory to be more prevalent, because you live alongside your abuse and your obsessive thoughts. Despite that, it's first of all excluding women who aren't similar to that basis. Different societies and norms. This theory is gonna go around and around until being conscious about your want for male approval can be called the female gaze... where do we stop? We gotta think- ok, does it hurt me? If so, why do I do that? and figure stuff out. I don't like the idea of not being able to change and grow from this mold of male attention. That's why I think anti-feminism and self-centrism comes to play in this. I hope that makes sense cause damnit I cannot read that again. I suffer from overthinking and obsessive thoughts and that's exactly what it feels like; so you should be conscious about what hurts you but don't dwell on it too much because that never ends.

[@pinkpain-ter8412]

@@goldenknox I couldn’t agree more. I’m currently healing form mild social anxiety, but when my symptoms were bad, I didn’t feel safe because I was overly aware of men walking down the street, so I’d cross and walk on the other side just to stay away from them. The Male gaze is definitely anti-feminist since it makes a certain group of women slaves to the imaginary male opinion. The thought of being free from hypersensitivity to the male opinion by logically pulling ourselves from it sounds good, yet on the flip side it exposes that group of women to men that want to manipulate and profit off of said freedom. So this makes me question how are we even supposed to act in society and our own private lives? (Also don’t worry, what you said was comprehensible 👍🏻)

[@bubbles4897]

@@goldenknox how is it “anti-feminist” tho? I thinks it’s time for us to suck it up and really admit and deep dip into our faults. just bcus you have obsessive thoughts and are triggered (and I don’t mean that in a bad way I mean it as the actual term) by these type of discussions doesn’t make it “anti-feminist”. I think for people who have obsessive thoughts and whatnot like you should work solely on their mental health for awhile before partaking in discussions like this. and I think you’re forgetting that we can and should have sympathy for women with “ingrained male gaze”. to act like there are women who aren’t affected by heteronormativity is a bit of a dense idea. it’s in all women’s deep subconsciously. Just bcus they don’t have to deal with it consciously, doesn’t mean it’s not a problem

[@bubbles4897]

@@pinkpain-ter8412 there’s no particular way that we should act. we are all different. I think all that matters is digging deep in the core and asking ourselves introspective questions, and once we have done the work, then you’ll see what type of person you become without those burdens. we’re not all gonna be the same kind of person after we do the work. the only thing matters is finding our true and genuine selves, free of subconscious barriers. And I think it’s very important for all women to learn to free ourselves of hypersensitivity to male opinion. it’s the most essential step

[@goldenknox]

@@bubbles4897 oh my god you just said I need to get over my mental illness to voice my opinion LMAO your ableism is showing 😳

[@monicamadrigalbeckford4281]

Why are girly girls assumed to be dumb? (I know is Misogyny). But I'm just really tired of that idea.

[@C8ffeine8983]

Because They are acting childish. Feminine has different interpretations

[@rismadeco]

Imagine looking at a girly little girl and thinking "she's gonna be a bimbo"... Why do people need to label other lol

[@drucilladeville]

The “I’m not like the other girls”era really made me too insecure to enjoy my own femininity. I was worried about being too feminine or too girly. Rediscovering that joy and apart from “for men” has really given me a sense of identity.

[@cherrybloomzz]

i honestly think it’s really reductive to say that sex and kink HAS to be empowering for women. our sexuality shouldn’t have to be a political statement and it’s pretty hypocritical to restrict female sexuality to the things that personally make you comfortable. i think this is a really nuanced issue and i’m glad you brought it up! edit: just wanna clarify that i absolutely understand that this view is really important and sometimes even necessary in society today i just feel like a lot of people treat this as their main argument for sexual liberation in general (eg wap needing to be empowering) when in reality conditional liberation isn’t really liberation at all. this also goes for women taking submissive/traditional roles in general

[@theone-eyedwitch900]

Ok I agree but it is anyway because it’s the hand we were dealt. A part of the way we’ve been oppressed does involve sexuality and because of that we do kinda have to look into how that oppression and maybe even trauma affects us. It is a lot of effort that we shouldn’t have had placed on us, but it was anyway because oppression is an un even playing field. Men get to play with their sexuality and be free and without consequence and any woman that gets hurt is collateral damage on the path to his future, like with how Brock turner was handled being a shining example. He had a future, and his victim was the past. Now of course, victims don’t really stay stagnant, and a part of the path to becoming survivor is unpacking that past. Of course not all oppression is that extreme but all of it has an affect and leaves something behind

[@theone-eyedwitch900]

Furthermore, I don’t kink shame, but one persons kink is another’s nightmare so there’s a level of responsibility both on the triggered to be aware of and handle their triggers and on the one who is fully aware that the things they like or are involved in have a high potential of being triggering and I don’t think that’s explored enough either. I’m not gonna kinkshame anybody but I will ask them to be conscious the more mainstream it becomes, especially as it gains influence the more mainstream it becomes

[@xLoveAlyssa]

If we lived in a better world I would agree with you but since we don't I basically have the same opinion as Kat Blaque - kink becoming popular was a mistake. (disclaimer: I do not think kink is inherently bad, I have fetishes myself, but I am critical of mainstream kink) More and more people think kink is the fun quirky thing to do nowadays without doing any research and putting their sexual partners at risk or thinking it's sexy to not give a shit about boundaries, because they don't actually have any specific fetish they just learn fake BDSM from porn and it caters to their already ingrained sexism so... I mean isn't that part of why most doms are male-identified and most subs are female-identified, as our societal norms are men lead and women follow (and violence is manly, and damsels are desirable, so on so forth). "Subs have the real power" literally not a single fake BDSMer actually believes this so plz no one @ me with that. I digress. For actual evidence of this please google "rise in british men choking women during sex" HuffPo and a bunch of other news sites have articles up about how in 2019, 1/3 of British women were unwillingly choked, gagged, and spat on during sex. UNWILLINGLY CHOKED. 1/3 of British women!!! I like choking ppl and being choked WHEN KNOWLEGDE&CONSENT ARE PRESENT and I am well aware that shit is dangerous, even if doing the safeR choke method. So anyways I think we need to continue having conversations about whether kink should be empowering or not, even if that question is convoluted, because men are not asking that question and are instead eager to weaponize their toxic masculinity under the guise of kink, and women need to be aware of the conversation and the risks of being involved in kink, as our lives and safety depend on it. (obligatory not all men - yes my post is very gendered but making this gender neutral would be extremely reductive to submissive women's experiences, I mean even vanilla women are at much higher risk of sexual violence 🤷‍♀️ ok but for real the good kinky men are hurt by this shit too)

[@theone-eyedwitch900]

@@xLoveAlyssa yeah I actually agree

[@theone-eyedwitch900]

@@xLoveAlyssa I myself have had men just do shit like that undiscussed and you bet your ass I kicked them to the curb immediately

[@user-ro6wf3rc5u]

I think many feminists feel the need to question these behaviours because it plays into the myth of free choice. That is when we may think that we are deciding freely to do this or that but that action benefits the patriarchy. It is very difficult to question your actions because we all have internalised stuff

[@brittniep9219]

I’m more than 100% into “bimbofication” when it’s meant to reclaim sexuality and to flip the term as ive seen it on a few tik tok videos. I love the videos about it and the fun humor related to it done by women. It doesn’t mean it is not without problem FOR SURE...

[@emman486]

Okay just a story that I think demonstrates the male gaze, not meant to shame anyone: I always used to say I shaved my body hair because I liked the feeling. I'd seen a lot of posts defending women who shave because of their reason and right to choose. Later I realized I had never tried having body hair so I didn't actually know if it was my preference. So I grew my hair out and one day I looked at my armpit hair in the shower and thought 'ew dirty'. This demonstrated to me that I had actively internalized hate for female body hair. So I continued to grow it out and decided I actually liked the feeling of having it better. So now I occasionally trim/shave it but it feels like I'm actually making a choice because I have tried both and have more awareness of what motivates my actions

[@erdbar718]

I was the same about body hair! for me I kinda knew I never ever -not even once- shaved my legs for myself, i was just trying to avoid being shamed for growing hair there like it's something bad lol. Also I always felt really awkward when I saw a female alligned person with leg hair, i am soooo glad I now know better and since I let my leg hair grow I actually love it and feel so odd without it. Still working on fighting shame in regards of armpit hair which is why I am also just letting it be atm, maybe I'll actually like it won't know til I tried it. :D

[@Eva_R966]

@@erdbar718 any tips on fighting that shame? I had a similar experience but I haven't gotten to a satisfying place of self-acceptance yet. I grew out my body hair for the first time during pre-covid summer (not just in the less visible winter months as usual) and found myself having so much shame around it, wanting to hide, and feeling panicked that i actually held on to such strong feelings for something I thought I had no issue with but was avoiding bc of personal preference. Then I felt completely bamboozled that my friends I spoke to didn't see the issue and just told me to "shave it off if it bothered me". But the issue wasn't the hair, but all these sudden realizations that inaction and just existing (as opposed to active hair removal) was not perceived as just "normal" or feminine and that it affected my self-esteem. I'm still struggling to come to terms with body hair acceptance in public even though in close relationships it's not an issue

[@lalametupsi8618]

So interesting! I've heard from similar experiences and did the same. I tried every length, determined to just find my own preference for ca. a year. Well... I don't shave any longer but wax because apparently it tickles when it's longer, scratches when it's shorter and burns whenever I shave. Great. At least I learned shaving wasn't for me, so....something useful came out of it

[@erdbar718]

@@Eva_R966 For me it was really just getting used to it and the more that happened the less I thought about it (just leg hair I still have a long way to go). But struggeling is normal. I also experience days where I'm on the go and I see something or someone and feel like I should've shaved - but your worth and you are not your natural body hair. Society has taught us that it's not normal (whatever that is) to have body hair when female alligned. Which is why I feel shame, so whenever the feeling comes up I remind myself that this is learned behaviour and body hair is just body hair. Also *if* someone truly were to for example reject or judge you based on that they're just a shitty person that's it. If judgement is placed it says more about the person than the action (here not shaving) and that does include oneself. For me I feel pressured to shave and feel ashamed when I don't cause I am afraid of the judgement, the looks, what other people may think. But most likely when going out in public those people will never see you again aka whatever they think will have no effects on you. Also think about it that way (if it helps) what if people actually think it's pretty cool? Maybe someone notices (which most people won't anyway) and feels empowered to also not shave anymore or embrace their body hair more. Another thing that helped me is question how much I actually notice strangers or their apperence and tbh it's not that much unless I think someones cool. So I just hope, it may be similar for others as well :)

[@alicesenz6374]

@@Eva_R966 I felt really nervous about what other people would think at first but after a couple months I got through it. If it helps you may want to try wearing higher socks that will cover the lower part of your legs as a way to slowly adjust.

[@catb6195]

I don't really know how to feel about the "internalized male gaze theory." On the one hand, I agree that a male-dominated and heteronormative society definitely has an impact on the psyche of anyone who is LGBTQ+ or a woman. Society has trained you to feel shame for having body hair, for having a menstrual cycle, etc. On the other, I feel like saying that EVERY action I make as a woman is catered towards men, just because society told me so, is just demeaning? It feels like it implies women are incapable of free will, but rather coming from a "biological" perspective that misogynists usually have, it's a "sociological" perspective that some feminists are having. I haven't started wearing makeup and crop tops because I want to please men. Men tell me that they hate makeup on women. Men tell me that they hate skimpy clothing because it makes them think I'm a slut. I do these things because it's a fun hobby to find different and creative ways to stylize myself each morning.

[@jennali9800]

Absolutely agree with this! I think terms like "internalized male gaze" are useful for describing the experiences some people have where they do very much feel this internal pressure. However, insisting it applies to everyone - worse, forcing the label onto people - is harmful and indeed, demeaning. All people's preferences are influenced, positively or negatively, by society and that doesn't render them problematic or invalid. Honestly, if someone went up to me and straight-out _told_ me I didn't actually like one of my interests and I was only doing it because of "male gaze", I would punch them, and I don't care if that's the man in me doing it or not.

[@elk3407]

Not to mention, the "internalized male gaze theory" has some.... questionable implications towards trans people that very much don't sit right with me.

[@fabianavalentino6304]

@@elk3407 why? I think it even makes more sense if you take into account trans people. Some trans women get very concerned about what men think because they think that that would make them more femenine; and I assume some closeted trans man can be very traumatized by thinking about how they are perceived... specially if they also like men. But I also agree that it is some, not all. In general, i think some people are very in tune with what society wants/seems acceptable, whether they fit that criteria or don't; and other people just don't care.

[@deathnstuff]

Exactly. I feel like saying that everything a woman does is catering to the male gaze (bcuz of society or whatever) is literally the very definition of the male gaze 😭😭 Like, who cares??

[@Luna.Lupa.]

Maybe I am the only one, but I was never attracted to men and therefore never cared about their opinion. I never felt shame for having body hair and no men told me that it is a problem so… idk what everyone means in the comments

[@theone-eyedwitch900]

It’s the consumerism for me. Also, being autistic and infantilized my entire life makes me averse to bimboism. It looks exactly like my mask, especially being partly nonverbal. Look pretty, be seen and not heard. Tbh that’s why women have an easier time masking because as long as we can do that, anything we can’t do or need accommodations for, well, we just need to find a man to take care of us

[@cherrypanda887]

this is such an eye opening comment, thank you and have a lovely day

[@guesswho5790]

I always thought this as well. The minute I read on masking in women I thought, well doi! When we are more valued for what we look like than who we are, it's easy...

[@Juliette_jules]

This is like my thoughts, but I guess the opposite? Being called an airhead and stupid my entire life because I had ADHD and autism so therefore awful in social situations made me feel awful for so much of my life. I spent all of my time trying to be everything but that label, dressing modest and smart and perfect so people would like me and think I was put together. So, now being far more educated I really wanted to embrace that label, which I did through my fashion. I wear skimpy outfits and dress like a stupid airhead because I don’t want to cater to what people want me to be. I’m really smart, and I’m awful socially but why should I care. I use dressing as a bimbo as a way to stop masking and stop pretending I understand social cues. I completely see your point though, I hate the infantilisation of neurodivergent people.

[@theone-eyedwitch900]

@@Juliette_jules ok but I don’t understand what dressing like a stupid airhead means. I just wear whatever I want to now and sometimes it’s not much and sometimes it’s a lot. I don’t really consider what anyone else thinks

[@theone-eyedwitch900]

@@Juliette_jules I was also told to dress modestly and intelligently but I don’t really know what that means. Like I know in an analytical sense that it means to cover up but I don’t understand why and I don’t understand professionalism, or how to mask in a professional environment either tbh. It makes me feel like a cardboard cut out in an indiscernible shape and everyone seems to know it’s a square but I don’t know how they know or why. Why do I have to cover up to look presentable or professional? How do I determine the level of formality? Why can’t I just wear my princess dress and call it a day and have everyone still take me seriously? Why do clothes dictate my intelligence? Why is a princess dress less intelligent? If anything, it took great expertise to make my princess dress (yes I sew my clothes often) so is it not more intelligent?

[@Amanda-du3et]

Being a bimbo isn't feminist/empowering, but that's okay. It's a free country and women should feel free to wear whatever they want. But our choices don't exist in a vacuum and many of our choices are influenced by beauty standards and gender roles. You can be a bimbo/wear tons of makeup/etc., but don't pretend that it's feminist, because it's not

[@dailymdesdemona]

I would personally say that it's not *inherently* empowering, but it can be for some people. For example, I've seen multiple people in the comments on this video (particularly woc) saying they find it empowering, and I don't think we should deny their lived experiences.

[@Amanda-du3et]

@@dailymdesdemona well that depends on whether or not you subscribe to the idea of empowerment as a feeling, which I don't. I view it as actual power/agency (financial, legal. social, etc.), and being a 'bimbo' doesn't provide anything concrete in the way of that. It looks like a fun trend and I don't look down on women who participate, but it doesn't actually help women in any material way.

[@the_devil4676]

“you can be a bimbo/wear lots of makeup/etc but that don’t pretend it’s feminist it’s not” you sound like you view femininity as inherently ‘worthless’ and ‘unfeminist’

[@the_devil4676]

@@Amanda-du3et women who’ve had femininity stripped form them specially woc and trans women openly publicly and proudly presenting as feminine dose empower women it literally pushes back against misogynistic ideals like that femininity is shameful/unserious/childish or that some people like woc and trans women aren’t and can’t be feminine.

[@veronicatiffany777]

I'm 32 and it seems so, soooo strange that people are actually offended by not being included in being a bimbo. It was such a derogatory term growing up and in my 20s that we desperately tried to get away from. The irony of people now fighting to be called that is almost too much.

[@sydneykeith6059]

I think the topic of the internalized male gaze should be a whole video in itself.

[@riirah1010]

I was a very "girly," perfectionist, ~pink sparkles and dresses~ child. Inevitably, I was told that being like that was bad, but instead of educating me or even just telling me that I shouldn't care about other people's opinions, everyone in my family made fun of me. Nobody told me anything useful, so I was stuck between being stereotypical and being... stereotypical. I ended up coming to the conclusion that I should work to stop internalizing every opinion of myself from another person and focus on making my own positive opinion. By myself. Because nobody, in the three years this went on, told me that I could be myself.

[@dominiqueserendipityfrench6435]

I am so impressed that you took so many, including my own, critiques into consideration and implemented them with candor and integrity. This is what really good visual essays are about. Fucking hell yeah. You nailed that shit.

[@jordanatheresa]

thank you!

[@IsomorphicPhi]

When the notification popped up in my phone I went "I'm pretty sure I already watched that video". Great as always!

[@itsesmeriel]

you went much deeper than in the first version. Well done!

[@sunset6920]

how is ur comment from 4 rhs ago

[@AshTanya]

Is there a patreon?

[@flowerboyt841]

@@AshTanya i found a patreon in the disc

[@Celestilunae]

The internalized male gaze theory messed me up. I also love dressing up and doing my makeup to feel good, and discovering that it would be ‘internalized male gaze’ would be painful to me too. I can feel you, i was sexually abused (by a man). I’m probably going to be in deep denial too.

[@anoni6108]

I believe that you can do things for yourself too tho, I dress very badly because it's comfortable first secondly because i don't like people staring at my body because of trauma, as long as it's for yourself first I think it's at least partially not for the male gaze

[@leandralovejoy2167]

wow you really got me at the part around 20 min, speaking on personal experiences with men and how much damage has been caused. it’s so true that the idea of having that taken away due to the internalized male gaze is soul crushing. on the other end, I see where I have let that internalized male gaze become the voice to direction in my thoughts, ideas and impressions. an example of this is body hair, I still cringe at my body hair often, even though I have taken liberating steps forward to feel more comfortable in my own skin, bitch body hair & without. thank you for sharing your personal experience, it feels good to be seen on that wavelength because it can feel very lonely to experience that type of thing alone. you are so strong

[@angelaozz]

some of those 'not like other girls' memes are actually really embarrassing for whoever made them😬

[@papkinn]

I really hate idea of "internalized male gaze" because it's not only extremely heteronormative but also literally erases existence of all people on ace/aro spectrum from the discussion. I'm asexual and i don't want straight people sexualizing my existence and turning me straight for an argument, i don't even know how attraction works because i never felt it so saying i "subconsciously" try to please men is a massive stretch and ignorance towards other sexual spectrums that people making this type of arguments either don't understand or are not even aware exist. Plus i feel like it's just a fancy new term to make women feel bad just for being themselves, it's not their fault men find certain things attractive because let's be honest certain men find everything feminine person do sexual and we have no power over it, we can only choose to ignore it and focus on ourselves. We took bimbo term from men and now we're trying to take it from women and go "no-uh you like it bc of ✨internalized male gaze✨" like... what's the point? Making women insecure? Make them feel sorry? Force them to obsess over everything they do and put on? For me it sounds like my school teachers saying i'm trying to distract boys with my shoulders when i was like 12. That's why i often feel excluded from feminism because at the end everything is about straight allosexual perspective (allosexuals = people not in ace spectrum) and existence of people like me is never considered and sometimes even purposely erased.

[@racismisntanopinion2591]

The male gaze applies to ppl who aren't straight, altough it sounds weird. Have you seen the comment of the lesbian girl here, it's very interesting, she realized that she acts in ways to get approval from men even if she doesn't like them. Of course there are exceptions as you said you might not have an internalized male gaze and if so congrats to you! But I assure u that a lot of women have it, sometimes they're unaware of it. Its feeling ashamed of our body hair for example, feeling like we look ugly -- and that is not bc we want to please men bc as u said u might not even be attracted to them, but bc of society's rules that are dictated by men....that is why we view ourselves from a man's perspective even if we don't like it, we are still forced to follow those rules of beauty and behaviour standards -- the example of your school dress code is from a sexualising mens perspective for example, as you said a 12 yr old's shoulders shouldn't be sexualised and still there are rules implied in schools that forbid girls to dress "to sexy" viewed from a man's eyes. The term "male gaze" is also not something new, Women have been sexualised for a long time and even if you don't even like men societies rules will tell you to look and act pleasant to their expectations. sry for my grammar english is not my first language

[@jennali9800]

​@@racismisntanopinion2591 Lesbian here. I'm sure some lesbians do experience an internalized male gaze, and I would never tell someone how they think for them. However, I do not experience any internalized male gaze to speak of, and I think Pumpkin's argument that this discourse excludes queer people is certainly true. Not everyone does this, I'm certainly not accusing you of this, _but_ for example, I have seen a lot of "feminist" discourse that argued women calling each other attractive is indicative of internalized male gaze, which... obviously very much erases wlw people. It's definitely a problem worth considering.

[@racismisntanopinion2591]

@@jennali9800 it does feel sometimes like everything we are supposed to feel has something to do with men and I'm sure that there are exceptions to the internalized male gaze as I said. I think that altough a lot of ppl don't want to feel like they are influenced by the male beauty standard for example there is a small part of it at least in (almost) everyones mindsets just bc we are growing up in a male dictated society (what I mean by that is that a lot of society's rules are implied to please men). I have not heard about the idea of "lesbians like girls bc of the internalized male gaze" jet, and I think that that's not accurate, but I can't speak on behalf of all of them, just as much as I can't speak on behalf of all feminists. some feminists might take it way too seriously to explain to others what they are supposed to feel, (that's def something I've been doing too in the past without enough knowledge - mostly bc guys expected me to explain to them as if I was the spokesperson on behalf of all feminists)...So yeah I don't agree with all women and I don't think that white feminism (meaning not intersectional) is the way to go. However, I think that just bc there are people who feel like they don't have the internalized male gaze it shouldn't be seen as something that erases wlw people for example, since there are some wlw ppl that say that they struggle with the problem of the internalized male gaze - maybe manifested in self hatred for not following man's expectations in some way. It's not just a white,straight-feminist only issue is what I'm trying to say.

[@jennali9800]

​@@racismisntanopinion2591 I think that "internalized male gaze" is a useful term for describing some women's internal struggles. But the argument presented in the video, that everything all women do ever is the product of the man inside them controlling them like a Sim, is an absurd one. I think the former usage is productive and generally helpful terminology. The second isn't only exclusive of wlw, it's just demeaning to all women, and insulting to men on top of that. And it's just useless, if everything ever is male gaze then nothing is, it makes the term meaningless. I don't think the idea inherently excludes wlw, as I said, it's more that I've seen it used in an exclusive way so it's something that should be kept in mind. We're probably on the same page about non-intersectional feminism here actually, a lot of my issue is with feminist discourse that doesn't take into account the experiences of minorities. For example, sexuality being framed as a required part of the female experience does exclude ace women.

[@racismisntanopinion2591]

@@jennali9800 yeah totally, I think we're on the same side on this, and I must confess that I don't know a lot about the male gaze-theory nor this youtuber jet since this vid is the first one I've watched from her.

[@isaacb1045]

that infamous bimbo turns into a nerd pic actually isnt flipped aha the kink of the drawing is like “transformation kink” i went on the artists page and they do a lot of bimbofication/reverse bimbofication stuff which is similar

[@Eva_R966]

I understand the internalized male gaze not as a sign that you're not capable of living/enjoying things for your own pleasure, but rather as the ever present knowledge of seeing yourself from the outside and having an idea of how well your appearance/posture/actions/etc. may or may not conform to the male gaze. I like doing makeup and nails and these types of activities, but I am also hyper-aware of how these things are perceived and linked to desirability/gender roles. When I'm alone and I slouch, there is a moment where I readjust my posture and briefly think of how unattractive that must look from the side (not just my back health). Even as a single person who isn't showing off my body to sexy strangers, I have to fight the internal shame against what my body looks like, whether revolving about its size or its hair, and grapple with feeling attractive on my own terms. The gaze is internalized bc I am hyperaware of the societal beauty standards/norms and can apply them to my body without any man having to straight-up tell me. And to add to that, you don't have to be straight or cis to internalize this bs 😭

[@jf0visual]

Whenever I see one of those "what would you tell your childhood self" posts I think my answer is "'aesthetics of leftism in bimbofication' is a phrase that will make total sense to you later in life"

[@___yikesss___]

“i’ve been making strictly feminist commentary for about 6 months now” immediately subscribed

[@thinkingabtit]

Same lmao

[@dew7678]

About the internalized male gaze theory, I think a big part of it could also be the fact that men reward you when you appeal to them and punish you when you do not. (Even tho somehow being girly is also punished) but if you look "pretty" or "fuckable" men will treat you better, they will compliment you and help you if you need something but if you don't they will treat you badly because for them you have no use. So I think maybe a lot of women could learn to look a certain way to attain that better treatment, not just because it is internalized as "beautiful" and "desirable"

[@mizuki8706]

Ahaha, when you posted on Twitter “I will reupload the video because it is out of focus” i genuinely thought the camera focus was the issue😂🤦🏽‍♀️ I am so stupid xD But I actually love that you decided to listen to other voices and that you try again, I think that really shows your great character :))

[@goodennui8563]

I don’t consider it as living up to male expectations. It’s women reclaiming the title bc they’ve never been taken seriously in men-dominated discussion spaces so they reclaim the title, run with similar crowd, and live a truth where they’re not expected to have anything valuable to contribute to discussion just to be recognized as a person. It’s what it seems like to me.

[@ashi.8787]

I'm doing my masters in sociology where research is INTENSEEE! And let me tell you,the amount and quality of your research speaks VOLUMES about you and how much you genuinely care. I've been watching your vids for more than a year now and I'm a fan! ♥️♥️

[@AshTanya]

Omg Jordan's so sweet for reposting so I could be Early this time haha

[@naattaa777]

Wait so in English the term “bimbo” isn’t racist and an equivalent to the n word? Because in the German language it is (this is nothing against this video!! Just wanted to know because English isn’t my first language, obviously 😊)

[@chandlerbaillie7251]

Nope!! It basically just means dumb blonde and most often used for white people in my opinion

[@emma7933]

well, today I learned not to refer to someone as a bimbo if I am in Germany

[@naattaa777]

@@chandlerbaillie7251 thanks haha that really shows how different languages really are 😅

[@SaKura-il8op]

@@emma7933 use „tussi“ instead. I think those have more or less the same meaning.

[@emma7933]

@@SaKura-il8op thanks

[@leporinedivine]

my fave quote to battle against the "a woman inside watching a man, watch a woman" is that (im para-phrasing here ^_^;) ' You're looking at ME, but i'm looking right back at YOU.' you see yourself, you see the voyeur, but just as they're gazing at you; they haven't left unharmed. you're looking at THEM. you are staring right at the face of the problem. YOU are looking at them RIGHT BACK, even if you can't SEE them. and thats just step one.

[@2357y1113]

I'm a man and have a question about the internalized male gaze: Men also do many things every day to try to impress women (e.g. work out, earn money, have confidence, buy nice cars and clothes). But we'd probably never call it "the internalized female gaze". We'd just see it as trying to be successful in the dating game, as something that's quite obvious and mundane. But why does it become political and a problematic issue when women talk about this? I'm not trying to be provocative or anything, I'm genuinely interested. I discoverd your videos a few days ago and even though I don't agree with everything, you do give me new perspectives and some food for thought. Nice videos, please continue. 😊👍

[@ashdacraft]

I feel like men do things to impress or one up other men more than anything else.

[@jennali9800]

​@@ashdacraft Yet women don't do things to impress and "one-up" other women? I think that's very false.

[@jennali9800]

I agree with you, actually. I don't like this framing of everything to have to do with men, and I think it veers dangerously close to incel rhetoric. I think "internalized male gaze" is a useful term for some women to describe their struggles and experiences, but it is not a useful term for applying to every woman doing anything, that just makes it meaningless.

[@ashdacraft]

@@jennali9800 I never made that comparison.

[@jennali9800]

@@ashdacraft Fair, shouldn't have assumed.

[@fiona_6714]

I love how well you take criticism! So refreshing! I will say though, with the idea of internalized male gaze you could say that anything a woman says, does, or wears is because of her internalized male gaze. I don't think it's entirely incorrect, but ultimately if we wear something we like and it happens to be more skimpy, then so be it. We'll drive ourselves crazy otherwise.

[@jennali9800]

If _any_ action can be said to be the result of something, that means the term is meaningless.

[@Mexie]

Learning about the male gaze gave me so much language to understand what was going on with me internally, especially throughout my eating disorder. I didn’t fully understand how powerfully I was playing into it until my 30s. It’s taken a lot of introspection to work through the trauma I went through with respect to men who had internalized it too. Glad you are learning about it and talking about it even if you aren’t fully sure on your experience ❤️

[@littlefishiesinthese]

I just LOVE how you took on feedback and came back better!

[@emmalouge123]

Internalized male gaze tracks for me if we're talking about how I subconsciously view other women. It makes me super sad 🥺

[@mahi93162]

I feel like I can relate to this even more, not only cause of society's expectations and beauty standards, but also because of my culture. I'm South Asian, and girls in our culture have their whole worth and value tied to marriage. Anytime we make mistakes or do something wrong, parents, relatives, and the community in general say "How are you going to get married?" I just don't like how that's seen as our only purpose. When I visited my home country/ the motherland, my female cousins told me how they wish people didn't only ask them about marriage, but instead other things like what job they want to get when they're older or what they plan on studying. Recently, I went to the doctor because I have this skin condition on my hands which is making them dry and crack, and he said something like you won't get be able to get married lmaooo(he's from the same culture). I know this and many other cases are just jokes, but it's still annoying hearing it all time and not even funny at this point. If you don't know how to cook, people say you have to learn for your husband, instead of you should learn for your own survival. I've heard many married women say what's the point of looking pretty or wearing makeup, they're already married and old. Nothing wrong with them not wearing makeup/dressing up, but they shouldn't feel like the only reason is for men. Basically, we are expected to cater to men in every way. Anyway, I know this is kinda unrelated, but I just wanted to share something that I think can connect with this.

[@KatyTheLimitless]

I learned so much from BOTH of your videos, probably more because you reflected on yourself. Baby sociologist in the house, love it!

[@gh0stgarbage]

I'd like to add this to the conversation about "is bimboification empowering or just pandering": If "the male gaze" can't differentiate between their kinks and something someone is doing to themself in order to like themself more or feel empowered, that's the man (or other individual's) fault. People aren't objects that you can label as sexual just because it might match your sexual preferences or particular kinks. If someone is reclaiming something that happens to line up with some sort of sexual preference, it isn't /FOR/ you. This also comes from someone who isn't bothered by the idea of "empowerment". I think the whole reason we label it as such is probably due to the fact that for so long women (and afabs) were considered property or less than men that now anything we do to get to "even ground" is considered as "feminist", even if it's just us living our lives. Women and afabs still have some sort of fear for our lives when we're alone at night, we're still "targets" and still oppressed to some degree. Until we see men completely stop being a threat to women and afabs I don't think this label will be leaving anytime soon. Which admittedly and unfortunately kinda makes you get used to it. Not only that, but afabs still don't even have full reproductive rights, and in the state of Tennessee in the U.S. they're (as of 2/18/2021) even debating a bill that says "men can veto women's choice to abort pregnancy". It's hard to un-politicize a gender or even human lives when they're constantly trying to strip rights from different non-christian-white-straight-cismale peoples.

[@user-ro6wf3rc5u]

I’ve seen very few youtubers reupload a video in order to improve it. Very admirable

[@burgerpowder8]

im honestly so happy about this. even though I'm goth, I've always been very girly. people would shame me for it even tho I read just as many books as they did. i can finally be myself and people accept me for it

[@littlefishiesinthese]

19:45 Really, it's just about the ACKNOWLEDGEMENT of the role that internalised misogyny (including internalised male gaze) has on how we think and behave, including things like our worldviews and philosophies. We have been influenced from birth, so it's worth examining this to see how much our behaviour is being influenced by something we don't actually want it to be influenced by!

[@maryann2970]

It's worse than that, internalized male gaze is a neurological phenomenon where both men and women split the female body into parts but view men as whole. You can look at the MRI studies on pubmed.

[@beckywaytoomuch]

Point blank: feminism is having the ability to choose to be how you want to be. I hope we get there.

[@laylaveil]

I really admire you! This really proves that if you commit some mistake or miss some extra really important subject, you have the chance to try it again and fix it. Really love this, especially the fact that you said POC cause im hispanic and just saying black people excludes asian, mixed and hispanic people (and other ethnicities).

[@amiera1233]

I love that you included poc in your definitions

[@learningandgrowing7746]

What about when the opposite happens, you dress up feel sexy, look in the mirror and feel cute, and then remember "oh right men will think this is for them" and then change into sweats because you don't want the attention. Wouldn't dressing the way you want and the way you feel cute or confident without considering what hetero men think either way be a feminist move?

[@mariag.martinez5997]

You're definitely my favorite KZbin essayist and this reupload and the initial apology for the oversight just made you even more top favorite. You're doing great.

[@eadlynjune]

This really spoke to me since I saw a lot of myself in this video. I very much cater to the male gaze all the time, I act like I'm ignoring it but I'm very aware I'm not. Everything I do is for male and sometimes female validation. I don't even enjoy sex, but I do enjoy the feeling of being wanted and owned like a possession. When you talked about the fantasy of being an airhead I kind of live that, I try my best to be in the loop politically but I don't feel very smart and don't act like I am. I own my sexuality as my identity and it makes me happy I suppose.

[@aaron34719]

20:22 Idk why but the thought of Jordan being sad or heartbroke just makes me mad, she has that sort of energy

[@chelseangungu1231]

I'm so late to this video but in terms of the internalized male gaze, I saw a girl on TikTok saying that it doesn't mean we do things FOR MEN, but that we view ourselves through a patriarchal lens because of the way society has conditioned us. Like beauty standards for example, even if I'm doing my makeup for fun in my room at like two in the morning, I still find myself contouring my nose and making my cheeks look rosier because that's what the patriarchy has told us is beautiful (small nose, rosy cheeks, clear skin, long lashes, the list goes on endlessly). I hope that made sense :)

[@GrrrlStyleNow]

Honestly, your openness to critique and willingness to give things a second look is one my favourite things about how you run your channel. Huge respect for you.

[@tarae6587]

hi!! i’m very new to your channel, just found your videos a couple days ago so i didn’t watch this particular vid the first time around, but i just wanted to say i think it’s so cool how you reuploaded after listening to the comments from your subscribers!! i don’t know a single other youtuber that would do that, i have so much respect for you and how seriously you take your platform!! i love love love your content and i can’t wait to watch more of your videos, much love

[@livmarriott148]

A really good take!! It kind of can be seen as just a never ending cycle... I think we’re led to believe that as women, following however we want to dress/ behave and express ourselves sexually and physically is the ultimate feminist take - how can it not be if we are freely expressing ourselves, right? But you’re so right that we are still trying to approve to the male gaze. If there was no such thing as sexism/ misogyny/ gender imbalance would we honestly still pursue extremely exaggerated ‘feminine’ looks or be into severe degradation sexually?? Despite short term expressing ourselves might feel good and authentic and even progressive, e.g reversing the ‘pick me’ trend by embracing extreme displays of femininity, I think it could equally be seen as just internalised misogyny (but the opposite way round if that makes sense) and a way to just make the male gaze feel like we are in control but still be found attractive?? I would love if you did another video about this maybe in response to comments? 🥰

[@simmerdown281]

Notice how the main visuals for ultra female empowerment are either hyper sexuality or hyper masculinity why can't we have nice things 😭😭

[@hotcocoify]

I think that the reason why anything that women do is seen as feminist or looked at as a feminist issue is because we are half way through our story. Yes the end goal is for women to do things freely and not have to be concerned about what others think, particularly what men think. But we are just not there yet and the only way we are going to get there is by continuing to actively push "boundaries".

[@wildtogepenny]

you should do a podcast! i love your content ♥

[@nliwia9355]

yes!! i would love to listen to her podcast

[@evacasey4932]

I haven't fully watched the video so excuse me if this was already covered but,, I started to like the bimbo aesthetic bc it made me feel better about not being "smart" if that makes sense.

[@fionamcneil7426]

You should add Khadija Mbowe to the list, she is very intelligent and speaks frequently and social issues.

[@skullshapedbox]

Right now, liberation looks like body neutrality, for me.

[@MrWhateverintheworld]

my sister is 14 trust me ‘i’m not like other girls’ is rampant still

[@radicalchic753]

Bimbo is an Italian word meaning "child"

[@themaskedtalker2171]

That's actually Bambino.

[@GrumpiestElf]

The internalized male gaze theory is very interesting. Because I sit here and initially go “Well. I like to dress on the more suggestive side when I go out because I think I look good, I like showing off myself a little and making men think...- Wait hold up” On one hand, I do enjoy goth, being suggestively clad, and having that different vavavoom in some self centered way. But on the other, I do also like the thought of being desired by the gender I’m attracted to, which is both men and women, but I gravitate towards men the most because I’ve been with men WAY more than women, and I know what I’m dealing with there. So it’s mainly men when I think about who’d desire me, but even so, it’s in an almost spiteful way of “You wish you could” when I dress up a little more and have men in mind. I’m a lot more relaxed and much less hostile when/if it’s women in mind, but random men on the street? I’m out to give them some sort of “fuck you” by looking good, to seem out of their league therein cause them some sort of upset? And I feel amused by that thought? It’s fucking weird! Self empowering, but weeeiird when I think about it. Maybe I’m just sadistic, idk 😳

[@spookberryyoutube]

In german the word is actually a racial slur against black people so I was shocked when I first learned that it's used in another context too

[@chargingyellow]

didn’t even see the original video but love how you handle everything

[@mojigreen6461]

I feel uncomfortable with the internalized male gaze theory, because i find flaws in it's specificity. The theory about individuals viewing themselves tho the "other" is present in many philosophical and sociological takes. We study ourselves as individuals and as different identities thro the other, either other people, other classes and other identities. Male gaze is just one of the "other" viewers in our heads so to say. We view ourselves through the lense of those who hold power in relation to us, for example, we might internally judge ourselves for the way we portray status through clothes and status symbols as internal rich gaze. Take this comment with a grain of salt, it's just my theory

[@Queen-qv4tm]

that's actually a really great take on it! i side with you on this one

[@summeryoung1026]

The male gaze thing is so dumb as a bisexual. Like no man, it's my own gaze. I do things for me. I do things because I think girls who do those things are adorable. I'm married to a guy and he loves me no matter what I look like.

[@mariapaularubianoa.6890]

I look back to when I was in my early twenties, and I can definitely see how internalized I had the male gaze, even thought I declared myself a feminist and felt "empowered". In my case, I felt the need to overtly showcase that I was a sexual being ( "sexy" photos online, using "revealing" clothes to show I was "sexy" etc.) I then realized that I didn't need external validation (esp. from men) of my sexuality to be a sexual being, if that makes sense!

[@murtleturtle4027]

I just take it as an aesthetic. I've always been into this kinda style since I was young and when it was very unpopular even. I think some people blow it out of proportion on both ends (whether you agree or disagree with the idea of bimbos). I think the idea of taking back femininity can be empowering but I feel like involving politics or whatever the sort into it is a bit groupy and can turn toxic even if it's met with good intentions. It groups it too much into an aesthetic.

[@notevennero]

I never thought id hear a term like "bimbo spectrum" xD

[@paigedurmis8026]

I hate when female celebrities do something sexual and then say it’s empowering to women, it makes no sense

[@mchlle94]

Feminism shouldn't really be about individual choices, but about systemic context

[@iulia3914]

"it's a stereotypical bimbo picking up a book and then turning into y/n" I had to pause the video cause I was laughing so hard

[@currybread5298]

I was thin and have big boobs. I felt like I betrayed fellow women because I was condoning to male gaze. I accidentally got the most attention when we were having a girls' night out. I felt ashamed of it. Then I gained some weight and don't fit into the male gaze either. Looking back I got some safety of at least fitting into the male gaze, but now I don't fit anywhere. The trend of "woman written by a man/woman", I feel like no one would write someone like me. I'm too big busted to be a respectable "female written woman" and too chubby to be a "male written woman". Why is this a problem? I never felt pride in my body, my looks. When I was thin I felt I had to be ashamed and hide my boobs. As a chubby woman I feel like now literally everyone demands I should be ashamed of my body. Now I need to hide not only my boobs but my belly too.

[@Kermitdie69]

I think it's nice to take back things that have previously been used as insults such a the word bimbo

[@oliviaelyce2875]

This is why I appreciate radical feminism, because liberal feminism would push the bimbofication of women which is just women playing into our own oppression and allowing ourselves to be objectified. This is just playing into the patriarch. I can not see how women blatantly degrading themselves by aligning themselves with a derogatory insult used by men to oppress women is empowering.

[@oliviaelyce2875]

@I. S I’m radical because women are being murdered, stalked, abused, and raped on a daily basis by men and it’s all because of this shitty patriarchal society. That’s what I’m fighting against

[@G-vu9hq]

Internalized male gaze is definitely real and an issue women face, but if you do your makeup, hair, outfits, nails, etc bc it makes you happy, that is for you!!

[@damapayne]

when u mentioned your trauma and said men had caused you nothing but pain... i felt that

[@JoshLenn0n]

I think the reason why the new face of female empowerment is hypersexualised and a straight male fantasy is mainly because women's empowerment is so deeply tied to their body count. It sort of reverts back to Freud's original theory of the dichotomy of women where they are either pure as a virgin or unpure as the prostitute; a women's value has always been connected to her sexual promiscuity and I don't think that has changed today. Obviously there is no reason for this to be the case because your value as a human should not be affected by your sexual promiscuity nor people's opinion of you. Idk these are just my thoughts as a guy watching this video :)

[@chickofmusic001]

Yes I hope one day, we pull out these deep rooted problems. Because a woman’s appearance and body shouldn’t be her empowerment, nothing wrong if it’s makes you FEEL powerful. But let’s be honest it’s not really that powerful as many women think, especially if it’s your only “empowerment”

[@paperigangsta]

commenting only 4 minutes into the video so not really talking about the video itself. as someone who's mostly familiar with bimboification in kink context (not really my thing but basically i like deep researching things both things i am and am not personally into) i'm not sure what to think about it becoming a more widely known thing. i think there definitely is a huge problem with kink/sexualization etc bleeding into mainstream culture and from that to kids and teens, and that does worry me (i'm all for sex positivity and education, that is different). also really respecting you for listening to criticism and being able to see that you might need more education on a subject, that's so rare to see

[@wildhearses]

Betty boop had a dog romantic intrest named "bimbo"... I guess ironically at this point, but that's how kind of recently the word use to be used to describe a guy.

[@ergotoxicosis]

Plus “choice feminism” is a kind of tautology, right? Like a fallacy basically

[@vrenfield]

From what I've seen "the bimbo movement" is quite intersectional... And hey, even champagne socialism is better than centrism imho, and for some it can be a gateway to the "true" leftism. It also seems to abolish the whole "hating everything associated with girly girls" notion, which was the beginning of "I'm not like the other girls" thing... so overall it's pretty pog.

[@Start.a.curvolution]

when I see the definition of a bimbo, I immediately think of this terrible character, which was just terribly written by Madison in the second Zombieland film ..... I'm just really sorry for all these actors that there was just this flat one story was made, where just so loose ideas were clapped together and that was the finished script. I think it's so sad that these days you still write characters like that and don't just break through these clichés

[@mothyca]

I cannot wait for the kink-feminism video honestly. It's a subject I've talked about so much and I'd love to see what your video will talk about.

[@888fluffy]

I don't believe there are any kind of 'basic' or 'bimbo' girls. I think everyone gets roughly the same amount of intelligent points some people choose to spend them in different ways. If you're an expert in makeup, fashion and sexual attraction, you're still an expert and should be treated as such. I chose to put my points into biology and now I'm an expert in animal science. Shout out to jack of all trades as well, you don't have to specialise to be wise and learned.

[@turtlegettingby4433]

I’m an aspiring bimbo of color and I found your video really interesting. I definitely think every feminist movement has its own form of exclusion (usually to woc/poc and people outside of your typical thin, white, blonde, blue eyed cishet girl) and like you said, not every movement pertaining to women has to be about feminism, but for me, it’s quite empowering. It’s helped me focus on myself instead of thinking of what people think of me (especially men). It also greatly improved my self esteem since I felt cute and hot but just for myself and nobody else. Obviously not everything works for everyone. And that’s fine. Also, when I say aspiring bimbo, I really mean more focused on the style rather than the ideology since I already was a leftist. I’m also a lesbian, and I know that lesbians still have an internalized male gaze, but please no comments about me wanting to be an object for men. I should also mention that I am light-skin, middle class, and I guess I would be considered conventionally pretty, so that’s probably why I am able to feel more accepted by bimboism. If you are in the same boat as me and still find bimboism exclusionary, then that’s fine. I think there are different paths to empowerment and something different works for everyone. As long as we are all respectful and kind to each other, and United in the goal to dismantle the patriarchy, then it doesn’t matter what path an individual takes to reclaim their body and their confidence for themselves.

[@alexandraepure5030]

internalized male gaze is so real and it hurts me aswell to see this in my younger self and so many others. i totally recommen the book women dont owe you pretty by florence given, it helped me so much on topics like this.

[@BerryTheBnnuy]

I don't understand why people insist on looking at what the dictionary says a word means. Dictionaries fail to capture the nuance of how words are actually used in the real world, and they can even be completely wrong.