The role of smartphones in modern war

This video features a conversation with Matthew Ford about the influence of smartphones in modern war. The smartphone plays a huge role in Ukraine and Gaza, and it is something we have to get used to on the modern battlefield.
Matthew Ford is a researcher at the Swedish Defense University. He is the author of the book "Radical War" and the article "Ukraine, Participation and the Smartphone at War".
0:00 Introduction
3:18 About Matthew Ford
3:57 The interview
11:12 What is new in the Ukraine war?
18:01 The mix of apps and platforms
23:10 Smartphones for military command
25:55 AI in data processing
29:47 The digital headquarters?
35:25 Soldiers as media consumers
37:53 War ecologies
45:08 Civilians becoming combatants

[@thomaslutro5560]

A thought occurring to me watching this: Reading history, you'll end up focusing on the commanders. Following Anders and Perun, in real time, you develop a deep respect for the staff officers on all levels, and the researchers working to enable effective command from the wings. Thanks, all of you.

[@PoulHansenDK]

One more aspect of phones in war, was when the Ukrainians analysed the density of phone connections in occupied areas to find concentrations of Russian soldiers.

[@richardhack9830]

"Unfortunately for the Ruzzians, the analysed info turned out to be pretty Lethal..."

[@TheDemigans]

They had a name for it right? Something about the flowers blooming? “Right, we just saw a few hundred phones appear around that empty field”.

[@kasperchristensen8416]

Wow! Didn't know about this operation. Both very clever and a bit scary at the same time.

[@MarcosElMalo2]

One Five Five Geofencing

[@frankdoit]

"Civilians becoming combatants" That is a very important issue that needs to be clarified.

[@briancreegan827]

Civilians geolocating troops and equiptment are SPIES. ROLW are clear on what happens to spies. Unfortunate and true.

[@Bob-nd2mr]

and we're winning ..."we are not powerless" Alexei Navalny 1976 - 2024

[@RalphFreeman-ok5of]

In WW2 civilians were targeted because they manufactured weapons of war in arms factories or grew food on farms which fed the troops. Does a train driver that helps to move items to the front line to support the military becomee a combatant? Tbh I no idea where the line should be drawn.

[@ulrikschackmeyer848]

Another pearl, Anders. Work well done. Not just a commentator. You teaching us real, military knowledge. 🇩🇰🇺🇦. SLAVA UKRAINI 🇩🇰🇺🇦

[@berndhofmann752]

I love your comments Anders! Greetings from Germany 🇩🇪

[@AirB-101]

A. P. N. going "full Perun" style with a 1 hour VDO of his own digging deep! I take that every week (but not on Sundays)... Thank you Sir!

[@The_ZeroLine]

One dilemma Russia has faced is that they want to suppress information from getting back from the front and their men’s sloppy comms security, but they also need them for men to fly drones and see their feeds.

[@yellowtunes2756]

Nobody cares about information leaking or people talking to their loved ones. It's about both sides having the ability to strike the location of the phone call. But both sides still use phones a lot for many military related reasons

[@nvelsen1975]

When I served we were issued a locked-down Blackberry. Not sure what they did to it, but non-approved apps simply didn't install on it no matter what. And Blackberry phones are banned in 3 countries for being too safe so they can't spy on people.

[@mravecsk1]

​They care, talking to relatives is a way how a lot of opsec intel was gathered and reality got to russian public compared to their state tv. Try to watch it, it will teach you something. ​@@yellowtunes2756

[@Princip666]

Typical Puck follower.😄

[@VolsungsDaughter1]

@@InvictusVirtus333 How rliquent! How persuasive! What a joke. Such a lazy and ineffective respinse, so typicla of the Trump and Putin puppets. Luckily, everyone sees through this crap. Only LOSERS troll for Putin and Trump.

[@Negativvv]

The last point about combatants and targets, Russia doesn't care about the finer points of combatant or not...

[@dennisfisher1430]

Another example of how readily available tech is changing war: a recent Russian missile strike in Ukraine was analyzed and was found yo be a north Korean device packed full of Western chips and etc., showing how easily pyonyang is evading sanctions

[@T.efpunkt]

Sanctions aren't designed to deprive a nation of resources, they aim to make stuff more expensive. Especially when only a number of nations take part in the sanctions.

[@badhombre4942]

Falling for CIA bullshite...what a surprise.

[@Electronieks]

Kim jing un drives Mercedes to

[@lexvangelder2525]

Great work and it made me realise how long ago physically and technologically my army days were. At battallion level we were tactically the network hub between the brigade and the 3 fighting squadrons (tell you what branch I was in), the recce platoon, and next there was the artillery net for the forward observers and finally the logistics net. Now basically any single tank or even trooper can directly tap into these information networks. This changes everything in the chain of command the intelegence, training, and clearheadedness required of each and every soldier irrespective of rank.

[@egoalter1276]

Battle networks down to individual soldier level have been around since at least the 90s with stuff like Blueforce Tracker, but I dont think they have really been put to the test on a full spectrum combined arms battlefiepd facing hostile interceptipn or EM denial.

[@OgreOnSprue]

52 minutes!? Excellent

[@traumflug]

Somewhere near 23:00 there's talk about the conflict between headquarters having to be mobile, and their massive need to process incoming data. Well, the nice thing is, data processing doesn't have to happen right next to the top commander. As data can move around the planet in split seconds, processing can happen anywhere, and still be immediately available to the commander wherever he needs it.

[@johnniebeavers4073]

Slight problem with that. Getting the data out and back without giving away your location and getting taken out by whoever is listening. The US ran a training exercise based on the conditions and threat environments present in Ukraine. By the time the exercise ended the only way to survive was to disperse the command groups, being under cover, frequently moving, and communicating through essentially land lines. Any transmissions out had to be ran to an off location antenna to avoid detection, location, and destruction. This is one of several problems hampering the Ukrainians ability to effectively mount more than company level operations.

[@markowitzen]

@@johnniebeavers4073 is there a legal way to easily access info about this training exercise?

[@johnwhitesel7828]

This was really interesting episode, not that all of your presentation aren't already very engaging. I really appreciate your programs very much. Much, I don't know and you satisfy my interest with things I could never unpack.

[@PLF...]

Drones and phones - truly gives an entirely new meaning to the age old "call in an air strike". Especially since planes/choppers are scared of passing through contested areas due to MANPADs and forward Patriot batteries.

[@jonathankeepers3960]

The catch phrase " drones and phones" very clever.

[@tractorpoodle]

#NAFO - Remember that this is the first war where dogs used smartphones to combat misinformation and raise money for our soldiers.

[@clarkoncomputers]

"If a kid cannot walk around the city on their own, then they cannot connect to the internet on their own." That's valid for smartphones and any other device.

[@howtoappearincompletely9739]

That was a fascinating and, sometimes, rather frightening interview/conversation. Thank you for posting it, KD Nielsen.

[@bswins9648]

16:36 "Gucci gear" Never heard that description before this video. Love it!

[@marrs1013]

It's been around for decades.

[@alcosound]

It was the first question that was formed while seeing this video: when do YOU become a target of military forces if you are carrying a smartphone near the front line? I remembered the case of Dzhokhar Dudayev, who was killed by a missile while he was speaking on a satellite phone. Imagine people carrying smartphones with applications for reporting enemy positions etc, they could become a military target as well (and we know that Russians don't bother much with legal niceties when in battle)...

[@williamlloyd3769]

Smart phones and connected devices are a cybersecurity nightmare. PS - AI drones will use smart phones as a key indicator of a potential target location.

[@kaeseblock1362]

Very interesting topic and an amazing interview. Thank you a lot for doing this 👍

[@ParentsFloyd]

Thank you for your long overdue introduction on this topic. I hope you continue the topic in a future seminar series

[@luminyam6145]

That was such a great interview, thank you.

[@sergelecluse0001]

Very interesting topic. Great job!! 👍

[@raimatat4864]

Thanks for an interesting theme.

[@CarolynAcosta-mw2dl]

Reminds me of that book by Marshall McLuhan " The Medium is the Message." Very interesting thanks!

[@DarkestAlice]

Thank you, Anders Puck Nielsen, for this conversation with Matthew Ford. 🇺🇦 Перемоги і миру всім українцям! 🇺🇦

[@migsvensurfing6310]

Tak Anders. Et spændene emne.

[@6thdayblue59]

Thank you as always. My favourite quote (stolen from X) about ‘smart phones’ is this: “I hold in my hand a device that can access all the knowledge known to mankind. I use it for watching video’s of cute cats, skipping crypto adverts and arguing with strangers on social media” I found it a sad but true analysis of the world we live in. Looking forward to your next post.

[@charismahornum-fries691]

Disappointing. I was made to believe that the internet was given to us in order to share pictures of cute cats. I suppose I am wrong 😹

[@medienmond]

❤that 52 minutes piece!

[@513895]

Thanks for sharing the discussion.

[@sandrah.2110]

Never in my lifetime did I imagine watching a war live streamed 😢

[@richardforster1239]

As a side note: 20 years ago in a previous job someone had left a note on a wall reading "BOWMAN: Better Off With Magellan And Nokia".

[@cymeriandesigns]

I remember reading blogs authored by troops during the second Iraq war. Even back then, info was leaking out everywhere to the point that commanders had to sharply curtail it. And that was when you had to post using desktop/laptop computers on the base.Multiply that by many orders of magnitude to get to where we are today with live or very very recent video from the middle of combat.

[@alandoherty5237]

Great video thank you for the information provided by your good self

[@StayPrimal]

Great interview ! Loved it Thanks to both

[@typxxilps]

I am on the other side of your 40% and watching it on the laptop usually cause I prefer to watch the full picture in case words and quotations or explanations appear. Thanks

[@Hochspitz]

I don't even own a phone!

[@unoriginalname4321]

Where as I primarily listen to the videos while I drive to work

[@pawisme]

I also think all smartphones should come with a 1 megawatt laser built into the flashlight! /s

[@terencechapman4349]

You can buy such a phone for $15 on the internet (but wait, 2 for $20), alongside door cameras that have magnets that stick to wood, and small flashlights that illuminate entire blocks as if it's daylight, and mosquito killers that kill everything in a mile radius. I would buy all of these, but I'm spending all my money on a course to show me how to earn $10,000 every day writing KZbin ads.

[@williamlloyd3769]

Forget lasers, check out the HD projectors on some smartphones.

[@friemelfredie]

Only on the selfie cam. The world would be much better without those selfiekindofppl

[@louisquatorze9280]

Excellent topic that is not commonly covered, but is quite important.

[@davidsawyer1599]

Commenting way too early. Roughly 2 and 1/2 minutes in. I remember reading an article where the US military was discouraging the personal from using fitbit because the tracking information was readily available to anyone. Therefore, allowing the enemy to know in real time exactly where troops are located. Also, I watched a video of the early part of Russia's invasion of Ukraine. They Ukrainian military had shot down a Russian drone. Although crude in its construction. A smartphone was utilized. Now, I will proceed with the 50 minutes remaining. Thanks.

[@VolsungsDaughter1]

Excellent! Thank you!

[@tomtrottier8135]

And what about the ability to download aerial/satellite photos in realtime? Surely both Ukraine & Russian armies are distributing these as well as drones

[@itwasntme9687]

That was super interesting, thank you very much!

[@shaneconnor86]

thank you Anders for a thoroughly interesting discussion, particlulary on civilians participating in the digital targetting cycle (and therefore arguably part of the kill chain) and when they could be directly participating in hostilities. The rules under LOAC are clear enough although not drafted with modern tech in front of mind and there will be divergent views on the meaning and effect of those rules as held by say the ICRC or the US military. The greatest divergence in the UA conflict might be the views of commanders of the facts on the ground (necessarily confused, contestable and complex) and their respect for the rule of law (think russians).

[@ulrikschackmeyer848]

Dear Anders, a few of your simple models might have made it easier for the rest of us follow Mr. Ford many and varied topics. Just a thought.

[@williamzk9083]

The 5G cellular system comes with a facility called “positional services” which will have an accuracy of either 10m or 50cm. It is critical that governments mandate the deployment of positional services on both cellular networks and on cellphone manufacturers. Civilian GPS can be easily jammed but with positional Services it can only be jammed near the front lines. Commerce can continue going not disruption to the economy

[@VolkerHett]

That's a double edged sword! Here in Germany we don't trust our government enough to voluntary provide all information over our lives to the authorities.

[@williamzk9083]

@@VolkerHett cell phones already upload GPS data so this doesn’t change much. You can always switch these systems off. The old 2G GSM system had a crude system called location services and

[@unoriginalname4321]

Cell towers already know your location, that's part of how they work.

[@VolkerHett]

@@unoriginalname4321 Yes, they do. But they don't know if I'm sitting on my balcony ore some 30ft to the left in the neighbors bedroom when her husband is stuck in a traffic jam :)

[@gregorseidel8203]

Especially the last section starting at 45:05 dealing with the question when civilians become enemy combatants is vague, lacks context and ends with a personal statement essentially encouraging "kinetic" retaliation against civilians. The question is of course complicated, but rather than there being no attempts at clarification at all, which is the gist of the interview, the ICRC (Red Cross, and just to give one example) does have an "Interpretive Guidance": "all persons who are not members of State armed forces or of organized armed groups belonging to a party to an armed conflict are civilians and, therefore, are protected against direct attack unless and for such time as they directly participate in hostilities." It would have been helpful to at least discuss such approaches, rather than meandering and finally blithely declaring (50:52) that anyone who has a device that can possibly be used to report enemy movements is, in Matthew Ford's view, an enemy combatant. Disappointing to see an otherwise interesting interview end on such a show of dangerous ignorance. Also, not surprising to see such statements from someone sitting in a comfy chair far away from conflict.

[@traumflug]

I think this whole topic demonstrates once more that pouring hundreds of billions of dollars into the defence industry doesn't guarantee optimum battle readiness. Suddenly, $500 tablets with free open-source software outperform that $200,000 "military grade" communications equipment. $2000 civilian Mavics work better than $100,000 military Black Hornets. And so on. Traditional militaries seem to be struggling with the idea that spending money isn't necessarily the best solution. They're supported by defence industry lobbyists, of course. Yet, moving away from measures like "X billion dollars spent" (hello NATO 2% target) towards measures like "capability X in quantity Y" would be a benefit. Define what's needed, and get that as economically (cheap) as possible.

[@Bob-nd2mr]

Locheed Martin has developed the new PrSM missile system. The old ones are being sent to Ukraine . some have arrived. These missiles will be able to target up to 300 klm into Russian lines. along with UK & French long range missiles plus all the Hi Tech Patriot defence system plus the F-16's .....is a shed load of money compared to a mobile phone but the Russians hit 2 Patriot Systems a few months ago ...someone .....SNITCHED ...Putin pays big money too ..and 2 patriot systems is worth a few bob for a single phone call

[@andrzejbarcelonafrlk6416]

​@@Bob-nd2mr Patriot (waiting too long time on the road) was observed by a drone, I'd have check whether it could be spotted and reported by someone passing by.

[@lindsaycole8409]

No matter what you do, in peacetime the military procurement process will still demand a mil-spec smart phone that is out of date before it is even launched and costs 20-50 times as much as a consumer phone.

[@traumflug]

@@lindsaycole8409 Well, time to change that procurement process 🙂

[@donaldpetersen2382]

Oh wow an interview. Thanks Mr Ford!

[@nickrails]

Fantastic interview

[@centy64]

Fascinating discussion.

[@stephensipe5405]

Militaries worldwide have to evaluate the full range on smartphone impacts. There are huge gaps in understanding of smartphone value and risk. The Russian War On Ukraine is a little line the American Civil War where old tactics were confronted with modern innovations in equipment which were only partially exploited by Commanders. Europeans all observed Americans fighting yet ignored most of the lessons learned or inferred. This cost a needlessly high WW1 casualty rate. I am a Brigade Military Intelligence Officer (S2). My concerns are “bipolar”. I see perfect asset collection data where previously I got only word of mouth and thereby interpreted collection. I also see some A-H breaking OPSEC, smoking deep in a trench I observed, by calling his girlfriend on a smartphone and pinpointing his position. How do Brigade and Battalion Security Officers, usually MI Officer’s additional duty, enforce OPSEC while exploiting smartphone advantages? Here is an example. During the US Civil War, the Gatling Gun machine gun was invented but never used. In 1876, even with Civil War hindsight, GEN Custer refused 3 Gatling Guns when he marched out to the Little Big Horn River. Even with the massacre of GEN Custer’s Unit by massed Native American Forces, the British learned nothing during their South African expansionism. In 1879, the British Units at the Battle of Isandlwanna and then the Battle of Rorke’s Drift no Gatling Guns were present. In 1895/1896, Italians lost a major Battle of Adwa to Ethiopia. Again, with both the hindsight of US and British disasters versus primitive Armies, the Italians did not use either the Gatling Gun or the new Maxim Gun. The Maxim Gun was actually used be the British in the 1880s in their nearby Mahdist War in Sudan, South Sudan, and western Ethiopia. This was an Italian mistake of failing to learn and modernize. Then came WW1 where modern machine guns met Napoleonic Infantry formations. The Ukrainians have made the battlefield smartphone practical by putting mobile cell towers everywhere to allow soldiers on both sides to connect to the internet. This has allowed higher level Ukrainian MI Units to monitor most Russian battlefield communications. They have identified: Senior Leaders, HQs, ammo/supply depots, troop barracks, Unit movements, and troop morale. It is a bonanza of information which can be exploitable intelligence IF Ukrainians have capabilities to strike these locations. Additionally, pictures sent or posted on various sites give battlefield locations and Russian BDA on their own destruction. My question is what are Russians getting from Ukrainian troops? Did a Patriot Launcher or HIMARS crew sent a message to their girlfriend exposing their location for Russian drone tracking? OR, did a local Russian sympathizer text a location to Russian Command? If Ukrainians operate 5TH Column Operations, they should provide burner phones and surgical gloves to Operatives. Get the information, immediately send it, drop the phone away from your area, drop the chip in another place, and bury/burn the gloves in a 3RD location. Keep inactivated phones in a secret location in ziplock bag. Activate a phone only when use is within minutes. You need a manual for all of this asset does and don’t.

[@alexbakker8785]

What i find interesting is that this is a long-duration video as opposed to your previous short-duration videos and the views drop to just 10% of what you normally get. I'm wondering is this because of the duration of the video or the title/subject? Could you do another long-duration video please?

[@michaelhollinshead6945]

I suspect that for the most part the drop in traffic was due to the incoherence of the interviewee. Anders would have done better to summarize what he had to say in a short-duration video. You have to be very careful whom you interview in order to preserve your reputation.

[@noahway13]

Guest: It's new tech and is providing new challenges. It can provide much info but it can overload the system. Ukraine is a test bed. Each military has its own way of doing things. Open source intelligence is good but some are better than others. Oh, the tech is instrumental and here to stay.

[@anotherelvis]

Do private soldiers have some access to the battle management system or is this restricted to officers? How easy is it to prevent enemy spies from accessing the battle management system?

[@goetzliedtke]

It's hard to understand the change that communications speed and bandwidth has made in warfare. During PG2.0, I had an on-line friend (we both liked a particular TTRPG) and we chatted with Yahoo Messenger. One day he had to break away for a while and then came back to inform me that they had been attacked and he had to man a Ma Deuce. At that point I realized that warfare was not like when I was young and my father was in Vietnam and we sent cassette tapes back and forth in the mail.

[@peterderidder9922]

If you wanna use youre smartphones sitting and waiting in trenches you need to invest several batt to keep in touch all the time ( a mobile Batt loader could also be usefull )

[@traumflug]

Small solar panels FTW!

[@peterderidder9922]

@@traumflug Once I had this, unless they maked it better now it is rubbish. it takes a lot of time . A mobile batt charger looks a better option. But still than it will be verry limited. I hope the ukrain soldiers will have a solution, I wish them all the luck in the world ;-)

[@traumflug]

@@peterderidder9922 Using solar panels one has to change habits, of course. When not in use, don't put the phone into the pocket, but connect it to the panel. Benefit is, it's an endless resource, no other supply needed. And it's silent, while a generator makes noise. If the panel isn't all that small, it's even powerful. A standard 2 m² panel has 450 Watts, a quarter of that still delivers more than a phone can use.

[@ThomasMelberStgt]

It is kind of: BYOD - bring your own device 🤓

[@grahamm2015]

This reminds me of stories I heard at the time of the first gulf war, and the supply of GPS. I heard there was insufficient military grade GPS devices and it was known in the population of silvers getting lost in the desert in ww2 as a result civilian GPS devices were being sent by families. Civilian GPS were being gaffer taped into aircraft etc. I understood it resulted in the decryption of the GPS signal when the air was started. This my be rubbish but it highlighted signals analysis would supply intelligence without have sophisticated devices like GPS. As you just monitor it's encryption

[@brucebredeman2189]

How do you deal with too much information

[@lexvangelder2525]

Indeed the Tech will lead, as it has done for the last 35 years since the internet went public on the world wide web with commercially available browsers.

[@EgonSorensen]

I hope smartphone manufacturers will make high end water and smash-proof smartphones for the consumer marked. Ukraine has clearly demonstrated that high quality consumer drones are better than decades old slow moving tanks. Communication is key - Wasn't it the Germans who used wireless communications during WWII and had great success against those without

[@ThomasMelberStgt]

You had those from BULLITT / CAT (CAT Phones), and others, too.

[@benwilson6145]

The German U Boats used wireless, the Allies then tracked and sank them. The British also used tracking of German signals at Bletchley Park in conjunction deciphering to track German units.

[@EgonSorensen]

@@ThomasMelberStgt Agree, they exist I especially like the FLIR options in some phones - sadly most/all are a bit lacking in the CPU/GPU specs and often run older OS versions (Android, as Apple seems unwilling to make sturdy waterproof phones) Building a tank+cope case around a mid-end phone - seems a bit .. uninviting. Comparing drones and phones - Russia usually use aluminium frames for their drones and the west uses carbon frames. I look forward to the day a manufacturer starts mass producing an unbreakable flexible polymer high-definition screen and puts it inside a flexible carbon frame :ø)

[@hgm8337]

Apple make smashable, water vulnerable, high end consumer phones that they bank on you breaking just after the warranty expires

[@anglaismoyen]

There are rugged smartphones. If more people buy them, they'll make more.

[@olmostgudinaf8100]

"Symbian driven phones" are ALSO smartphones. In fact, they were the ORIGINAL smartphones. Nokia coined the term "snartphone" with them. It means "a mobile phone allowing the user to install applications on it".

[@pRahvi0]

Call me nostalgic but I really wish I could get Symbian smart phones back. Although by this point, they probably would've made them as bulky, married to personal data hoarders, and just otherwise frustrating as Mac OS and Android phoes are these days.

[@drooplug]

IBM created the first smartphone in the early to mid 90s. The term first appeared in print in 1995. Ericsson was first to use "smartphone" to describe a product.

[@lolcat23]

Seems the meaning of the word has changed 🤷‍♂️

[@ianlighting100]

Definitely don’t google it kids!

[@olmostgudinaf8100]

@@ianlighting100 You can google it, just make sure you spell it properly.

[@hgm8337]

18:50 imagine having a grudge with your neighbour and falsely telling UAF there are Russian soldiers there and calling in an artillery strike 😱

[@VolsungsDaughter1]

That happened in Iraq and Afghanistan. NATO militaries know this scheme and learned from it.

[@PLF...]

HoAs will do that no question 😀

[@drooplug]

That has absolutely happened in Ukraine.

[@robinbennett5994]

You'd better hope it's super accurate artillery!

[@user-fj7df3ng7z]

Have you heard of "SWATting"? I think this has happened a number of times in the US recently where someone with a grudge calls the police and tells a false story about someone - perhaps that they are aiming a gun at passersby - that causes the police to send their SWAT team. That's extremely dangerous for the person at the receiving end of the police visit and I believe some people have been mistakenly killed by the police in these incidents.

[@bendikskristensen9000]

Have nothing to do with this tweet but I have a question about why Ukrainian do not use the drone boats to pull the drone submarine close to bridge, and in Varde/Denmark is a company Hot tap, which can drill into high pressure pipe under pressure, also done off shore, drill into the gas line going to China and send an explosive inside the gas line downstream the line, it will stop export

[@ABCBCNM]

I think the gas pipeline from Russia to China are on land (Siberia Power)

[@ekevanderzee9538]

The most dangerous weapon remains a man and a radio. With mobile phones, this weapon becomes overwhelming when you fight amongs to enemy population.

[@classicfan1014]

Potentially scary but a highly important area of participation in warfare. I hope Ukraine continues to benefit from its tech innovations while the implications are still to be worked through

[@saintcirone1]

In the long term i think reliance on tech for war is better. If soldiers look around confused and forget to fight if all the tech goes down, then nobody's dying. (Or that's a battle immediately lost it the enemy forces weren't down)

[@johnwalsh4857]

well think of the smartphone as a mini computer with communication abilities and can do many things with apps . The current smartphones have memory on multiple orders of magnitude greater than the computer which launched the apollo space missions of the 60s and 70s and the space shuttle onboard computers up until the 2010s and they have massive storage capacities.. and is greatly portable. so the smartphone acts as a very portable battle management computer and communications device and has a very versatile massive amplication to warfare as shown by the Ukraine war and this was much innovated by the Ukrainians. so what are its uses on the battlefied: 1. control drones 2. direct artillery accurately and rapidly including linking with drones and local troops to desginate and hit targets in a accurate and fast way 3. battlefield recon 4. communicate on the battlefield 5. Coordination of troops on the battlefield 6. provide for impromptu avionics for combat vehicles

[@paulhaynes8045]

I did A level computer science back in the early 70s, then worked as a computer operator for ten years. After that I was involved in the early rollout and support of PCs, then graduated to developing systems on mini computers, and then worked in a mainframe, legacy system environment. Finally developing client-server and internet based systems. And the phone I'm writing this on has, not only vastly more power, speed and storage, and far more sophisticated software than all those computers, but probably far more than all of them put together! And yet it cost me less than £200 and I carry it around in my pocket...

[@johnwalsh4857]

@@paulhaynes8045 the pc I trained on in high school in the late 70s was a 16K Genie 2(yah gotta love the cassette tape it used for storage) the first PC I owned in 83 was a 64K Apple 2( endured the green screen and used the peachtree spreadsheets). and highly agree with you on the phones, my current phone a cheapo samsung a13 5g which costs 300 CAD has a massive uptick in capabilites compared to the two computers I mentioned. and much smaller and cheaper too. Smooth to operate a lot more user friendly low lag and load time.

[@pRahvi0]

For ages, civilians have provided the soldiers with supplies and accommondations (willingly or unwillingly or anything between). Is it so different when they also provide them with vital military information (again, with varying degree of willingness)? For ages, civilians have also been killed for revealing too much of whomever ended up killing them later. And I think such killings have been considered warcrimes no matter how reasonable the attempted justification, am I right? If I radio my location when my merchant vessel is sunk by U boot, they let me sink with it for that. And while that makes sense, I still recall it's considered a war crime or something. If I use a smartphone app for that, I don't think the situation changes in any fundamental way (apart from me being apparently a time traveler, but I digress).

[@yamchadragonball6983]

Maybe they should develop a Command and Conquer esque UI to show forces, infrastructure and fog of war...

[@hakonhovin3912]

Damn 11 sec ago

[@uazuazu]

I would note that AI is not the only way. With good data visualization, a human operator can do much better analysis. This requires well-designed data visualization where as much of the detail is represented as visual cues as possible (possibly also movement-based cues), with the option to drill down and get more information. Effectively we have a large part of our brains dedicated to complex visual analysis, so this is the interface to the brain that we should make use of in order to allow the brain to do the analysis. This also means that the operator may spot things that an AI might miss unless it was specifically trained to notice it. Personally I'd feel happier with a good quality visualization that directly represents the data (with minimal interpretation or processing between the data and the eye) than have an AI in the way.

[@traumflug]

Yes, absolutely. Yet, human analysis has two drawbacks: it needs humans and it takes time. Imagine wiretapping all these surveillance cameras people have directed to their front yard or their door. A human needs perhaps 3 hours to process a day of one such camera. AI processing would 24 hours of footage it in 5 minutes. 1000 AIs would process all foorage of all cameras. For 99.9%, the outcome is "nothing happened". Humans can watch these remaining 0.1%, then.

[@user333-us4qz]

Amazing ✨🦾😁

[@johnwalsh4857]

Ukrainians are very flexible and advanced in this regard, they adapt this tech out of the box in the battlefield, the Russians on the other hand are slow to do it due to their command and control rigid, and the Russian army general policy to ban phones for their soldiers on hte battlefiled. since the Ukrs are able to detect cellphone signals from the Russians and direct artillery and drones to them

[@markusmeldre]

most importantly you can play games to relax after a hard night's of combat apply your experience when playing PUBG or War Thunder

[@anglaismoyen]

Unironically very important for morale.

[@thisisabcoates]

Just keep clear of the War Thunder forums

[@potator9327]

Yes, smartphones offer us a wide range of possibilities that we only use to a limited extent. And smartphones harbour a variety of risks to which we are practically all exposed. So we only get a few benefits at the price of all the risks.

[@tigertiger1699]

🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏

[@nvelsen1975]

One thing I want to point out about 'the internet will go down' circa 22:30 is the historical precedent of radar in WW2. "Why didn't the German airforce just knock out the radars?" is sometimes heard. Well, even with a system like that, much fewer in nodes and much more vulnerable than the internet structure, it was undoable to knock it out. The internet can be damaged or in low-infrastructure areas of mobile phone connection only, maybe disabled, but knocking out the internet? It'll never happen. There's too much of it.

[@lexvangelder2525]

There is no such thing as a Transparent Battlefield. The Fog of War will always desend quickly on the battlefield through actions, counter measures, camouflage (physical and virtual). The noise (again physical and virtual) will remain immense making the battlefield the confusing, disorientating, and frightning place it always has been.

[@MarcosElMalo2]

The point is that it has become much more difficult to concentrate forces, which kneecaps maneuver doctrine.

[@billmacdonald8022]

Just a thought on the comments on AI supplanting a lot of the staff jobs being able and experienced enough to do the analysis: I totally accept and recognise that there needs to be adequate human resource to be able to do the jobs in the event that AI/digital communication is disrupted. But what would happen if the HQ took a devastating hit, taking the humans out of the loop, but leaving a distributed AI intact, and communicating with forward elements? How long before people realised they were taking orders/advice from what had suddenly become their robot overlords?

[@richardhack9830]

Data Integrety. Quite a PIA for Military Communication Systems as it EATS Time...

[@JMM33RanMA]

There was a time when Denmark, for example, could cautiously ignore the rivalries of the great powers, though Prussia lured Austria into a war with Denmark that diminished Austria and Denmark but increased the power of Prussia leading to the Hohenzollern Reich [that is very compressed]. From 1945 onward every European country, even the UK and France was forced to align either with the US or Russia [a.k.a. USSR]. The fall of the USSR severely diminished Russian power, and the nations escaping from Russia's extremely non-benevolent control sought safety in a Western alliance. Poland and South Korea made the same logical geopolitical decision, surrounded by ancient enemies, they want an ally powerful enough to deter the ancient enemies but too far away to offer no threat to their sovereignty itself. Both came to the same conclusion, and they were not alone in choosing the US. For all of the many faults of the US, a choice between alliance with the US and domination by Russia, again, is a no-brainer. Of course, a US under King Donald I would make for a different and more difficult choice.

[@drfill9210]

Also... tinder. One USA soldier recently fell victim to a honey pot trap... there's no way that could happen without mobile phones... well not in that exact way anyway

[@eudaenomic]

Have there been attempts to integrate MIT's 6th sense smartphone into SFO? Last century pay landlines were used in Grenada for fire support. Now Ukraine's anti drone/aircraft app. Great work Anders.

[@anotherelvis]

Great interview. How often do Ukraine soldiers have access to the internet? Can they phone home from a trenches? How easy is it to track down an enemy soldier that uses a mobile phone? Which tools are used for tracking down phone users?

[@Bsaxton94]

Speaking of information overload, I don’t think it would have been impolite to edit for brevity. For anyone at the beginning of the video, the guest answers each question (well done Anders) with 80% filler. The media jargon spiels really got in the way and I suggest skipping to the beginning of each chapter

[@indigenousnorwegianeuropa4145]

*The Medium is the message*

[@richardhack9830]

ABSOLUTE TOP EPISODE ! Thank you Anders and Matthew for sharing this information. I never realized smartphones could be promoted to dangerous communication / guiding tools - almost part of weapon systems. The evolution took such a short time even Military Organisations couldn't keep up with it! ?? How many "enemy-eyes" are spying on the Ruzzians in Ukraine ?? - Potentially Millions !!!

[@57thorns]

We are perhaps moving back to the discussion from WWII, when stratetig bombardment from the air was done using carpet bombing of whole cities. The target was the factories that supported the war effort (which could include anything from ammunition and ball bearings to food processing) and civilian deaths were either workers supporting the war (valid target?) or unfortunate and unavoidable collateral damage. We also have precedence from German occupation during WWII where having radios was forbidden. The interesting thing here is that these things are only a problem for the Russians, as they are occupyuing territories where they do not belong. For some reason the Ukranian government have much fewer issues with civilians working against their forces.

[@user-fh1lg3pk5q]

Shelves full of serious war studies - and what looks like a copy of 'Grunts', by Mary Gentle!

[@anotherelvis]

Unless it is: Grunts: Inside the American Infantry Combat Experience, World War II Through Iraq (English Edition) English edition | by John C. McManus | 3 Aug 2010

[@paulhaynes8045]

That comment about WW1 communication tech - copper wire and a field telephone - made me wonder if that wouldn't be a bad idea in some circumstances. Let the Russians try to EW that! Also encoded, short-burst AM radio might be an idea. No one is going to expect that. And then there's tight beam microwave and light coms - short distance and fiddly, maybe intermediate repeaters required, but unless you're in exact line of sight it's invisible, and pretty EW-proof. Or maybe pigeons!

[@pRahvi0]

I do believe wires are used today too, but the persisting problem with them is that the longer the wire, the easier it gets broken, either by nature or by someone's action.

[@viennaih]

Imagine the movie "Tron" becomes real

[@karl-erikSvensson]

Talk, talk , talk

[@BobSmith-rp2oz]

How much of the front line communications via smart phones is dependent on the whim of one very rich individual...? Mr Musk

[@traumflug]

Depends on how many satellite communication systems are in the orbit (Starlink isn't the only one) and how many cell phone towers are on the ground.

[@cymeriandesigns]

Ukraine should leave dozens of prepaid smart phones in any town they have to abandon to a Russian advance, then track them when Russian soldiers pick them up and use them.

[@Mirookic]

howmuch moore

[@The_ZeroLine]

Guy seems a little all over the place w/a lede deep grasp of this topic. Anyhoo, it’s only a matter of time before IAs start scaling back on manpower w/OSINT now able to provide 90% of the info the agencies do (and often of better quality and more UTD). Personnel w/access to CIs in high place, who deploy and/or have access to our more advanced ISR feeds, etc. is a very tiny proportion of intel agency personnel. Where the line on “civilians” starts/ends is nearly a moot point when it comes to Russia because they already target every type of civilian indiscriminately. Is ringing a bell to let your neighbor know a Russian patrol coming make you a spy/combatant? The line can be moved anywhere. So, it needs to be firm even if it creates a problem for the military or every war will be limitlessly barbaric.

[@nilsklowait7191]

Yeah, I was a bit disappointed at the vagueness of the guest's contributions. It seemed to be a paraphrase of the same few points.

[@MutualZebra0123]

If phones play a role, can we soon get a military grade phone that doesn't break when kids play with it😊

[@MarcosElMalo2]

If you want to do like the military, buy your kid three phones. One to use, the other being repaired, and the third in reserve.

[@MrJugsstein]

🇺🇦🌻🇦🇺🐨

[@youtubeurevil]

I am in to electronics and shit..... the stuff in my mind is unbeatable ...