The Sad Truth About The Destiny 2 Streamer Kujay "Drama"

I understand Kujay's frustration... but the Sad truth about Destiny 2 and the future of the game, is that PvP and gambit will most likely never be "fixed" in the way people imagine. It is an MVP product that is "good enough" and it is doubtful Bungie will fix it any time soon
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[@moremtashed]

Love you all, and miss you so much.

[@Ourplealchohol]

I luv u too

[@kano4282]

Miss mtashed as well!!

[@omniocular]

Love you tashed

[@ItzMajin1744]

Your always welcome here Tashed!

[@IHateAnime_]

Love you man

[@connorsarkissian3095]

It’s self fulfilling. They made PvP bad so they could then say people don’t play it so they can slowly abandon it. Honesty gotta give it up for how they hustled us.

[@itsjustdroid]

Yep, they were let it died slowly purposefully and set up a skeleton crew to look over it until Marathon. Thats why were gotten no shifts in the meta for so long.

[@thatonepenguinperson618]

"PvP received a major update where we continued our efforts to tune matchmaking and added two new game modes. This did not move the needle. Therefore, we will add one old map and no longer plan to update Crucible. Please give us more money." -Bungie probably

[@itsjustdroid]

@@thatonepenguinperson618 couldnt have said it better myself

[@flamingscar5263]

people get upset when I say it, but Bungie regrets ever adding PvP, in Bungies Ideal world Destiny is a PvE game and only a PvE game, and the community needs to accept that PvP was, still is, and forever will be, an afterthought

[@itsjustdroid]

@@flamingscar5263 It was a forethought but after they went free to play it was an afterthought. Even all of the content creators said when they were showing them D2 it was more PVP focused than anything but failed to meet expectations because they didnt understand what the community wanted. When they became free to play and the only thing they could sale the game on then PVP was no longer a priority.

[@TitanGoPunch]

Bungie got called out for being lazy and greedy, and Bungie can't handle that criticism.

[@jormungandr4690]

They will say they are being harassed and threatened, because people told them to do their work.

[@Honed-]

telling them to do better is like them getting told to game end themselfs... they just cant take it i guess...@@jormungandr4690

[@chincemagnet]

Screw Bungie, the community needs to collectively come together and boycott the buying and spending of silver, and we should do anything we can to sabotage Bungie’s future releases as revenge for abandoning D2 in favor of other games development

[@KnownAsSys]

I agree with a large portion of the sentiment in this video. There is a difference between Minimum Viable Product and Optimized Performance. Optimized Performance in Destiny 2 would result in the greatest game the market has ever seen, and what makes so many of us mad is the fact that somehow the people in charge don't see that. D2 could have been the next WOW, CSGO, or Halo 3; but Bungie seems to be satisfied with mediocrity. That, in itself, is undefinably frustrating.

[@STAYIN_ALIVE]

I think the thing Bungie is missing is the reason the PvP population is lower, is because they don’t give it attention. If they actually cared about it and it was fun to play, people would play and the population would be way higher.

[@urazz7739]

it's the same with Gambit. They just do some big changes to it periodically but nothing else. The current Gambit is pretty good for the most part in my opinion and only needs a few things changed every now and then.

[@espectrodelayautja6320]

SBMM is what is needed. Everyone play in your own field. History says that population increases every time they initiate it

[@ranjnijan3446]

For the people dunking on him shame on them. These corporations are not your friends and will screw players/consumers the moment money investment “isn’t worth.” People who defend companies are the weirdest people on this damn planet like have some self fing respect. The moment money is involved in anything morals go out the window which is whats wrong with this damn planet.

[@memecrider3585]

100% agree it's like defending their favorite politician

[@tobimontana61]

What do you mean? Big corporate and our beloved government they care a lot about us, our health, safety and the environment. You don’t even have to think for yourself anymore, they know better then you what’s good for you and they would never lie to you.

[@j8000]

Streamers aren't your friends either. Dunk on opinions because they are stupid, not because of who has them.

[@dang217]

If destiny is bungie's baby, someone needs to call cps because the neglect is blatant.

[@espectrodelayautja6320]

They baby got a billion dollar inheritance. They’re not neglecting their baby, they’re baby is bringing in money. More for every season. Lol

[@bonefat21]

It's just so frustrating to see the potential being squandered

[@superenthusiast]

It’s very hard for us Destiny content creators for us to separate our personal opinions from the brand side of things. On the one hand you want to advocate for your community and call out the BS but on the other you risk losing opportunities from the very company/game your critiquing which can effect you negatively. Very fine line to walk.

[@GamingHelp]

That's the nice thing about still being small enough to say "**** it!". When I watched all the insanity unfold around christmas where the API was down, they tore up the entire crucible playlist, turned virtually the whole damn thing into Rift while we screamed "wtf are you doing?", I just walked. And honestly, I learned something: Not every game is so bad you memorize every bloody error code in the game by 100 hours.

[@rile_up]

Their treatment of this game has 3 players in my house not interested in marathon at all. They can keep pushing people away to other games. We really are about to see how well that works out for them.

[@koolman313131]

I'm a simple man. I see Mtashed Destiny content, I click. Good to hear from you man! Hope life is going well!

[@GamingHelp]

Same. I was going to say he's in my top 10 favorites list of creators, but probably closer to top 3 or 4. I miss his crucible videos.

[@everybodysayplease]

Byf made a video highlighting poor narrative choices and some of the narrative leads were replaced as a result. Byf, kujay, TV, Jake, aztecross they don’t shy away from calling out the bullshit and do it in a professional manner. That’s what the D2 community needs and that’s what Bungie needs to adhere to.

[@Cambam93]

Been playing this game since D1 beta, so sad to admit that you’re right. It’s like banging my head into a brick wall asking for new PvP content, and I’m solo so PvP is the thing I play most

[@garretthughes2549]

I guess people have completely forgotten the time when making a game that people want to play makes the most money. Defending these sheisters is completely insane. They are taking advantage of you.

[@TheDredgenProject]

Based on how Bungie has neglected PVP, you can come to an assumption that it has been a conscious decision to not allocate resources to it. Following Kujay's narrative, why would Bungie spend 3 million or so developing a map when it will not generate income for them? They probably have data saying that investing in PVP does not generate revenue and that is why they do not spend resources on it. It is better off spent on something else that will have better returns. All assumptions but that is how corporate decisions work. Like it or not, Bungie is a corporation and finance matters. It is not a passionate team of indie devs who want to serve their audience. They will make cool things to make players buy the next expansion, and what they are saying albeit passively is that Destiny will sell despite little effort on the PVP side.

[@avatarroku3173]

Good hearing you talk so healthily about gaming. P.S please bring back your podcast with TV and Khakis!

[@DaHammerOfGod]

Spot on take! For me, this season has been worse than prior ones which has allowed me to break away from the game. In the prior seasons, they had done just enough to keep me there but now that I've gotten away I'm going to try my best to not go completely down that rabbit hole again.

[@joshsmith8715]

I’ve said it so much, with Europa and neomuna being introduced, how do you not make a new map? Even from just copying parts of the patrols and making them into a pvp map. It’s so sad and I really wish we had a map on Europa

[@neilz183]

D1 was the passion project, D2 is not, Marathon (plus other unannounced) are now the passion project..D2 is just the thing they maintain to support the other things that now interest Bungie more. It’s the equivalent of a cheap to run boring car you run into the ground for a long commute to work until you can replace it.

[@macman850]

Man after reflecting on d2 after that SOTG I've pretty much come to the same conclusion. I have so much time I don't wanna quit but I'm also not having fun anymore. I'll wait and just buy final Shape by itself after reviews come out but I'm not buying a years worth of content sight unseen anymore.

[@aamake547]

Humbly, I disagree. Whenever Kujay drops a destiny rework video, it does overwhelmingly well and makes Bungie look stupid. To the extent that other concentrators do reaction videos of them, and are blown away by his innovation and thoroughness.

[@johncook2504]

Love seeing your channel pop up in my feed! Sad it had to be in this context tho. Hope all is going well for the OG rumble King baby!

[@TylorHuebner]

Sooooooo the crappy part of where I'm at right now and my personal struggle with this game is I felt like it was the smart thing to do to buy the deluxe edition of light fall. I mean, "I love destiny and witch queen was great! Why wouldn't I want to save a bunch of money to get all of my content." But now light fall wasn't good and destiny is sort of telling me it doesn't care (essentially) about the kind of player I am. So I would love to just walk away but I feel like I can't because I already spent money on it... Just feels bad.

[@Megaman280]

I’m a D1 beta player and i think im at the end of my destiny journey. I plan on playing Final Shape and ending it there.

[@adampickford6405]

Maybe Kujay values his principles more than "working with Bungie"

[@donutruns8692]

What you’re saying makes loads of sense and for the most part I agree. But I truly wonder how they can come to the conclusion that’s it’s more profitable to produce all the content they create season to season to just throw it away at the next dlc than it is to invest in the core activities in the game that are always there.

[@Geeeeee23]

No once bungie got the bag they just got pure lazy. They admitted to it. Seasons are killing D2 imo. That’s where all their focus goes and seasons are just plain fucking boring.

[@anthonybyrne5641]

Tash I miss your ass bro, you literally said something, that I said to my clan, 2 years ago. Dude you hit the proverbial nail,directly on the head! Thanks for being you Tash, see you in d3, also have you tried Diablo 4 or remnant 2, both awesome and fun, if you are looking to step away from genshin for a bit

[@joganaround7630]

You miss his what?

[@senecad2526]

That thread and Kujay's attempt at research, math, comprehension of corporate financing, and software development methodologies are a joke. He makes so many assumptions that the entire thread of his is basically fanfic. 51% of the studio aren't game devs, barely any of the Sony buyout money has made it to fund existing and upcoming projects, and development is a multi-team linear process where throwing additional developers won't magically speed up time-to-deliver. Bungie aren't mad at him, they are almost certainly using his thread as a joke and to meme on in their Slack chat because that's the level of respect it deserves. However, none of this absolves Bungie's mismanagement and inexplicable priorities that have led to player resentment.

[@nerm9507]

You put this more nicely than I could have. Kujay is insufferably self-important. I have been fed up with how he talks down to people, specifically to Aztecross on raid days, for years. Kujay is an ass, and I enjoy seeing him get put in his place.

[@Blanktester685]

and yet everything he said was the truth...

[@jklew9486]

Your car analogy makes sense. But there is this thing called maintainance you need to do on this so those things dont just turn to shit. And i think that is also the case here. The community isnt asking for them to change anything about pvp. They want more maps. That seems insane to me they cannot atleast do the minimum of that. The real issue is they cannot directly charge pvp players for content pvp doesnt make them money.

[@moremtashed]

And they are majorly lacking the maintenance haha. BUNGIE IS RUNNING ON 2% BRAKES

[@jklew9486]

Unfortunately yes. If they charged for every season of pvp I'd bet people would have an issue with that aswell. Pvp battle pass could be a way to get some money into paying dedicated devs/support for pvp. I say do away with this seasonal stuff like guardian games. And add something similar for pvp specific content. A battle pass that you can earn with enough pvp playtime or you can buy to progress more quickly. This may be a means to an end.

[@michaelpopa5317]

I'm actually quiting I havnt played in 2 months. I respect kujay.

[@maxcrss2845]

Ignoring justifiable complaints drain good will. Draining good will reduces ability to recommend game to new players and reduces ability to deflect unjustifiable complaints.

[@analytixna6610]

I'll never understand gamers complete inability to understand that the money you pay for games isn't going to developing the game, it's going to profits, it's literally required for companies to make more money than they put in. It's never about sustaining a product or making something good it's about making more money in the shortest time possible. Unless you win a PR lottery, ethical monetization will never survive. Capitalism ruins creativity, games especially.

[@haeundaemoon7816]

I hadn't heard about this but this was a great breakdown and brought some much needed nuance. Keep it up Mtashed!

[@trickyBasterd]

“Made financial sense” is a false narrative. Plenty developers have created blockbuster franchises on PVP

[@jesseritchie9282]

I highly recommend Darkside Royalty Lore for anyone who wants to see some critiquing on both Bungie as well as the Destiny community.

[@redalertsteve_]

DSR is pretty bias and many of his past takes were just ridiculous. Some good but he gets boring over time. Trend carefully.

[@a_thief]

so true about the financial ties, like if you’re not getting paid to dump THOUSANDS of hours into these games and on top of that you’re not having fun why slave away?

[@aliferestored]

Good seeing a Destiny video from you! Sad it’s about this

[@swarlly]

Glad you're covering this, I missed all this Twitter drama. Wasn't sure what was going on.

[@ChurchofCaboose]

For me, it's about the amount of time and money that's been invested since 2014. Hard to just give it up at this point. Bungie knows that. They have psychologists helping them to get people addicted to their game

[@Kaze02se]

My take on this is, you've spent the money and time in the past and you got the enjoyment out of it. In other words, your expenditure bought you the entertainment you paid for. If you're paying money and time now to feel miserable playing the game, you don't need to continue dropping cash into that product :) you could find something else to spend on that would entertain you instead, and that would be better value for your hard-earned cash. You could still keep up with the game through updates on KZbin and stuff, then if you see things in a good place then you can consider coming back. Just my opinion, this is how I come to terms with moving on.

[@kidbu916]

This is why nothing changes, your unwillingness to walk away is why things stay the same. As long as players continue to take it in the ass no matter how bad it gets. Things won't ever change and why should they. The player base has shown they're not going to do shit but bitch and moan.

[@zeromythosver.]

I kinda get where this video is coming from now and am on the same page, after finishing it I used to care about Destiny, D2, I used to care that if this game didn’t become or embody the best version of itself, many of its core enjoyable qualities just aren’t quite there in any other major game right now I didn’t want to lose this game, because it has no true replacement Now, D2 itself does not understand what used to make it fun, irreplaceable, and special in the first place, and so Tash’s message to Kujay rings true: care less, because this game’s ship has sailed Don’t sink your reputation, be permamad, or annoy devs online, because this game is a lost cause (sad as that is) But furthermore, stop showing up to DLCs; Final Shape, this “climactic finish,” you really wanna be there for it? Really? You’ve been here 9 years possibly, and saw how bad Lightfall flopped and how WQ’s great story wasn’t a new precedent going forward… and you wanna pay to see its ending? I’m good. I’ll watch its datamined cutscenes on YT and move on. And I think others should too. People who, like Tash said, won’t look at the DLC contents and say “yeah this is the transformative content I waited for!” No Cayde cameo or Savathun revival or nostalgiabait or (if Lightfall is indication) new lore will be worth the price and the time. It’s free to watch cutscenes on YT and move on. I think Final Shape should be the end for this series.

[@gfy2979]

Kujay needed to say it

[@TheWholf]

I miss watching you mtashy, if starfield gets modded and does a seamless co-op, i'd love to see a series with you and TV!

[@JDxxxxxx]

Bungie should just bring in some of the top PvP players shit I bet they’ll work free designing new maps

[@112131415191213]

Big data is the worst thing to ever happen to the entertainment industry.

[@yhelloh]

Was not expecting this in my notifications box. Did someone say... "drama?" 🍿🍿🍿

[@patchinthebox]

I don't even do playlists anymore. I do dungeons and story stuff. Hunting loot is pointless because I already have the best rolls on my gear.

[@XnRz]

First off hi Mtash!! Also I’ve thought the same exact thing about the entire “beyond” they mentioned to come after the final shape. I feel it is certainly a way to say they’re going to create another game perhaps “matter” which may be sort of a spin off of destiny. I can’t envision what else they can add to the story of destiny after the inevitable defeat of the witness.

[@unkownaspirations]

I can’t blame most people for having hope and trying to give feedback and Bungie is entirely to blame on it. They have strung people along for years saying we want your feedback, we are listening etc. They have even said multiple times they were going to put a renewed focus on the PvP and core playlists multiple times. It was even teased in a news article a few days before the SotG post. Bungie wants them to stick around and has carefully worded empty promises for years to do so. I think the anger and frustrations warranted when they were gas lit by Bungie

[@Swon148]

he doesnt care, he was never invited to bungie events, summits. he does not reply on playing this game to make a living. he has no need to suck bungie off like 90% of the other streamers/youtubers do. he is speaking his mind about how shit the game is, unlike many others.

[@urazz7739]

Actually, I think it's more important for content creators to call Bungie on their BS. As long as you are being objective about it then you should be fine. I.E. Bungie deserves a lot of the complaints and crap they get for the Lightfall expansion and the seasons for it so far.

[@shade_steppa]

Well this aged like milk. Would expect more insight from someone who played damn near 10 years.

[@Jonathan_G12]

Those of you who are mad. Y'all did it to yourself. Destiny 2 has been minimal effort for maximum financial gains for years. Y'all were quite and applauded them all these years too late now.

[@cc_par]

I agree, but dude. I love the gameplay of this game, but the replayability and community would both benefit so heavily if we got a legit cod zombies like horde mode. that could be such a cool thing, instead of seasonal activities just give us weekly cutscenes and a new horde mode map to play on each season.

[@danielguerra3133]

1 thing for sure. If nobody stands up for the community, no one will. 2nd, if one person does it , it makes them look bad, but at least they are trying to make something happen. There is no need to discriminate against someone about how it makes them look bad. 3rd change needs to happen because all content creators always back bungie. At least kujay is trying to make something happen. What are everyone else doing. Also yall would rather let bungie control yall. Instead of making videos cause i love to play the game, it is not for the company.

[@STAYIN_ALIVE]

This is how I would fix PvP as someone who’s been playing since Destiny 1 beta. Leave everything else alone, but make a game mode (maybe competitive) that has select weapons that are all exclusive to this game mode. For example, you can pick from maybe 3 smgs, 5 hand cannons, 4 scout rifles, etc. similar to Call of Duty in the sense that there’s not a million weapons like we have in Destiny 2 currently. This would make balancing those select weapons WAYYY easier and would potentially be a balanced competitive mode. Right now there is way too much variety, which is fun don’t get me wrong, but they just can’t balance it and that’s fine. Since it’s it’s own limited weapon pool, they could balance weapons differently and also abilities/supers. Also, custom competitive maps. I think this would refresh the competitive scene while also keeping the chaotic modes we currently love.

[@dmann05]

Your car analogy is a pretty terrible one. If I had a car that had random glitches, that just died on me for no reason, that popped error lights on the dash, but occasionally worked for a little while...I might buy some new brakes if I thought that would fix it. What I won't do is buy new floor mats or get my windows tinted, because those won't address what is wrong with the car. Bungie has essentially ignored all of the core systems of their car, and instead invests all of their development effort into useless features (to continue the car analogy, we get Season of the Cup Holders, Season of the Blinker Fluid, and Season of the Baby On Board Sticker) which also have a built-in expiration date. The entire PVE game is made up of expiring content OR content that can only be accessed by paying an additional fee. Players would have been FAR better off if Bungie had stayed with Activision, because EVERY expansion since Forsaken has been dog shit (with the exception of maybe Witch Queen, but now that we know that was compromised too it's hard to think as highly of it). Shadowkeep was far worse than Curse of Osiris, for me. Beyond Light was a fucking mess that felt more like a stalling tactic by the writers. And Lightfall is an insult content wise, and it cost more than ever. Every bit of money spent on developing Neomuna would have been better used in literally any other aspect of the game. The fact that Bungie sells new premium armors every season but can't be bothered to create core playlist sets to include with annual DLC is fucking pathetic. They could even reskin old Eververse sets and use that but that might eat into their profits. Fuck Bungie and to be honest, fuck Gladd and everyone else defending this piece of shit game. But most of all, fuck Marathon and fuck Bungie.

[@mrj5202]

I think the issue is that there were broken promises and if they just communicated and set the expectations and the beginning

[@gamingandchill4186]

*Long one that has a lot of controversy. Be advised. Just read the whole thing before you critique me about my opinions, stances, and points* I’ve been playing with the series of Destiny since almost the start. The content, story, gameplay, etc was awesome as it came out - even getting my ass handed to me by those sweats who grind to max with all the best stuff in a few hours. And the music, don’t even get me started on that nostalgia! I fell in love with the series from these aspects alone. I still play and support the company (even though the game isn’t enjoyable, or appealing anymore) for one reason: Bungie can easily fix their own mistakes and supply us with something truly new and unique that is enjoyable. Think back on some old activities: PoE, Secret Missions, Menagerie and the other old 6 player activities, etc etc. Bungie has, and still can with the assets at their disposal, make new things that are enjoyable. I am just waiting to see them realize the opportunities right in front of them. Now, my main gripes and complaints usually? Well there’s three. 1st is the mechanics. All of the mechanics and encounters in content as of recent for the most part is all reused assets. Deep dives? Kill stuff, grab parts, interact with thing, repeat. Same with the old Ketchcrash and Expeditions, Salvage, etc, as with most activities. (The base ones like strikes are understandable since they are designed to be replayed a bunch, but they kinda just suck to be honest) Now there are some that were cool, like Spire and it’s Arctrician links which were new, unique, and cool. Same with RoN’s Planet encounter, or GotD’s Final encounter with the circle and oryx symbols. Easy to learn and master, yet still enjoyable to do most of the time. For this, there is a simple topic that can help resolve it, with new innovation alongside, which bungie actually just used again: Relics. Like the Aegis, Hive Sword, Scythe, Spear/Javelin. A new relic for a mechanic with unique attacks can easily incorporate more immersive gameplay. For the mechanics issue, the solution is right in front of them. I know you can also say “reused assets” for favorite activities, but you also need to think of presentation and new ideas. At the time, Menagerie was a test to see how the content performed, and it worked amazingly well for just simple raid mechanics randomly chosen, with randoms at your side, and loot you could kinda handpick out. Why do you think bungie made Sundial and the others? It was such a hit they began to experiment with the concept. Sadly, their experiments weren’t as successful as time progressed. But the same thing happened with Escalation Protocol. Something new that was fun, and a hit when players truly began to see it for what it was. How do you think Terminal Overload was designed? Although, TO kinda sucks. The second one: difficulty. When you think of a challenge, you think of something that tests your skill, gear, sense, and even sometimes patience. Solo flawless dungeons have done that for me, but how many times will you do a solo flawless of an activity? So when I mean challenge, I mean the rest of the game we play at the end of the day: high end content. Raids, Dungeons, NFs, whatever else you consider endgame. (Most of these focus on PvE cause I don’t do PvP, but may still apply there) The way Bungie makes content “hard” in my opinion isn’t even hard, but more so “tedious” and “stalling”. What made NFs hard in the past? A fair amount of Modifiers that made you have to think about how you play to adapt accordingly, and conserve your resources, in addition to lots of hard-scaled enemies. The keyword: scaled. For this, we will use GM’s as the focus. The only really good modifier that they have (other than Match Game cause even though it was annoying, it meant planning accordingly and changing your strategy. Putting you out of your comfort zone in terms of your gear) is the Contest modifier, capping our level so we are at a disadvantage. But what else? Frankly put, nothing. Champions? Buggy, inconsistent, and honestly a real worthless pain in the ass that just stalls you and makes it unfun. Think back to D1 NFs. Heroic which increased enemy health and numbers, Famine which limited your ammo so each bullet counted, Glass, Blackout, the elemental burns, etc. Modifiers completed the challenge, and backed off the assigned strike for the week. D2? The only time I ever do NFs is when it’s an enjoyable strike, if I need to at all. Like SABER (even though the boss should have more health and less immune phases like in d1). And even then, it’s not hard. Just tedious. Hard content should challenge your core gameplay aspects, such as skill, gear, sense, etc, and challenge your area with the right methods. More enemies, more tougher enemies, and more strategy changing. Also, we need constant incentive to do these activities - such as loot. We’re gamers, we’re not going to do things we don’t want to unless there is incentive, such as a sense of self accomplishment, a deal or bet with others, seeing an experience for ourself, maybe it’s what we do for our livelihood and enjoyment in some cases and most of all - loot. Either way, as far as challenge goes, there are many places that need patching up. (Also for raids/dungeons, the mechanic issue) Third: balance. When the 3.0 reworks came out, we became overpowered. Frankly, I think bungie was a bit too ambitious for these, but nonetheless we were too strong, and still are. Things are too powerful, too underperforming, too unreliable, god I can go on such a tangent with this. Balance is an issue, in so many ways. Things need to be kept in check. Mostly (other than phalanxes and physics bugs), WE need to be kept in check. In areas of weak and strong. Many builds and load outs are out scaled due to the current state of the game because of how overpowered other things are. Solar Warlock (starfire nerf was needed, it was too dominating, so this is kind of a fair class now), Void Hunter, Voidlock, Arc Hunter w/ Cowl (one-two punch nerfed so a bit more fair, but can still be unbalanced), Arclock, to some extent Stasis Warlock with the infinite turrets controlling everything. And for things that are weak? Void Titan, some cases Arc Titan (but less so), Stasis Titan, Stasis Hunter (minus shatterdiving), to name a few. By far the most broken, however? Solar Titan with the hammer. Outclasses everything with it’s mind-numbing gameplay loop, and unbelievable power. Infinite healing, damage, ability regen, everything. I main Titan, and spite playing hammer, but yet have to remember with the current state of the game, I am most likely forced into playing it due to it being one of the only things to compete with the bs of bungie’s tuning of activities. Niche options are outclassed by meta, and even some meta options aren’t viable due to the tediousness. With how unbalanced and unfair the game is, there is no room for player customization in many cases. There is a reason I have been playing, and god forbid I hate myself for even saying this, League of Legends more than Destiny. The upside I can sometimes find in League (cause I tune out and ignore the other players) is that the niche and fun options work. The random shit that shouldn’t yet does. And the RGMs - Rotating Game Modes - which provide the occasional interest. The most recent one honestly is the first time I can truly say “I played league and had fun! I wanna do this again” In all my years of doing so. Destiny had it’s times of this with Menagerie, the Launch of Gambit, Black Armory, Secret Missions, random funny bugs and glitches and OOBs, and need I say anything from D1? It’s given those were enjoyable, even when my ass was handed to me. I may not enjoy Destiny anymore, but I know the company can do the right things without spending much resources on doing so. They pulled me into the trap that is the series, and I know they can manage it again. I just hope they save it before the dumpster fire it currently is becomes an inferno that no one can save.

[@honeyb4dger115]

Great seeing you again Mtashed, great points! I've been playing since D1 and have never taken a break from this franchise at all. Not once from all the old "this might be the end of d2 if this next dlc dont deliver" days and everything. This season looked really good, first few weeks I was enjoying it a lot and suddenly I could care less to play and I've logged on for a few hours like 2 times in the last month. I think a lot of people are feeling / doing the same which seems a little odd cause I cant really put a finger on why I dont want to play anymore but yeah.

[@sirredpool1222]

“Bungie is not a small studio…” that’s right man, they’re a greedy studio. They’ve become lazy and childish and people are sick of it. And sure it might hurt people like Kujay’s career, but quite frankly I admire him way more for taking a stand than backing down like a little pussy. I’m glad people are finally getting fed up because all of this gives Bungie bad press and that DOES matter. This does hurt their brand, it does hurt their image, and as a long time Destiny player I’m glad to see people standing up.

[@pyramixmaster7905]

i just want to say its really refreshing to hear your opinion on d2 and the state of the game, hope you're doing well!

[@Costelloworld]

There are a few content creators that I listen to just to hear them speak about the game from a real place...and you are one of those ppl...thanks for the insight

[@milosradmilac8911]

Yeah it's very simple like you pointed out: if this is not for you- move on! Don't give them money. And I well did just that.

[@LifeFluid]

Don’t defend Bungie on this one.. I’ve sat through a few of your bad takes in the past. Stand with the players here man. Absolute shill. 🤡

[@kurtnordli1381]

I don't know how Bungie's budget is, I don't know how much money bungie has made on destiny as whole over the years and i don't know how much they have to pay to there employees each month to work on destiny but In my opinion bungie has probably made millions on destiny and i don't doubt they have probably blown through a lot of that money by now. On the other hand Bungie has also made millions on suing about 4 or 5 different cheat companies throughout the last 3ish year's.... I have a hard time believing that bungie can't afford at least 1 new PVP Map each year, where has there millions gone that they just made in the last couple years that's what i want to know because if that money was put into something like Marathon that's not right..... that money should have been put into destiny, let Marathon earn its own money destiny was the game being worked on at the time all those cheating companies got sued if that money was put towards something else other than destiny that's Bull Shit destiny deserved that budget and IF this is the case that extra money should have never been used else ware.

[@r.markrosquist4842]

Always loved Mtashed's non bias opinion. I had alot of fun during Forsaken but quit at the end of beyond light. And been enjoying RTS and indy games.

[@girlinvt]

The truth is they expect the player to still play, no matter what they do. They allowed Bungie to get away with the skimpy content for years, and the base kept plopping the money down season after season. I pretty much stopped playing on Bungie day, and I don't intend to purchase anything from them again.

[@grafitea]

The first time ive been firing up new games rather than D2. Since launch. Its wild. Im excited for the future but i am never getting out completely

[@timbrwolf2238]

PvP main, so I finally quit the game last month. It was my main game since D1 so it was hard, but it's time. Message is clear.

[@BMonYTube]

5k hours! I'm fed up, quit playing it and moved along (PvP main)

[@Onolisciousyes]

Missed you Tashman!!

[@Gnar_Dogg]

I had been playing d2 daily from forsaken up until lightfall. Starting this season I've barely played the game. It's in a really bad state and bungie doesn't seem to be doing anything to fix the major issues it has.

[@danielguerra3133]

How about be the change. Be the change everyone wants to see. Be the change.

[@alphabackfisch1148]

Bro Mtashed always randomly spawns out of nowhere when it comes to Destiny 😭😭😭 We appreciate you brother 🙏

[@necrolios4640]

I feel like in my opinion the problem is bungie them selves saying we are or arent getting stuff instead of saying “its something we might look into” were getting excuses or just a “yeah no not gonna happen” instead of letting the community speculate and get excited for the future of the game we are basically told to stop speculating about the game a few years ago all id think about is how amazing the future of destiny will be now i just hope elden rings dlc comes out so i have a good game to play.

[@Dominionthayde]

D2 is already effectively on life support at this point. Bungie is focused on Marthon especially given that they moved most of the crucible leads over.

[@typikalspike231]

been playing my backlog anmd it s been so much healthier for my gaming, will buy the final shape and play it but put it down to move on

[@dkat1108]

"The enemy of my enemy is my friend"....

[@brendanpowell6043]

A lot of the tweets ragging on Kujay missed the point entirely. It’s a thought experiment and the assumptions being made don’t need to be exact numbers because it is a train of thought regarding resource allocation. He prefaced his tweet thread making it clear where the starting point was. Most of the replies were brain dead. Multibillion dollar companies can and do fail. Happens all the time. Maybe their CEO has a brain fart or the leadership doesn’t adapt to a changing market. Regardless of whether Kujay was talking about PvP maps, new raids, bringing vaulted content up to current spec or writing lore, budget allocation and prioritising developer resources is a requirement for any of those things to happen and Bungie have said this very thing in their state of the game. It’s all well and good for people to assume that Bungie has the data needed to make decisions, but not everyone is a analyst and not everyone is able to understand the nuance. Having recently left a workplace that clearly wasn’t prepared to allocate resources to my department (industry and legal compliance) until I left and they had no choice, but to do exactly what I had told them they needed to do to prevent their facility being shut down, I can tell you from first hand experience that bad decisions occur all the time and especially with poorly structured organisations. A core issue is around how they monetise their game and what is referred to as a death spiral. Lots of content is bundled together making is difficult to determine what content is actually valued by the player base. The Bungie anniversary bundle is a great example. What got that content selling? Was it Gally and the assumed necessity of that weapon, was it the dungeon, was it the armour? Bungie as a developer and the people within the team has more than likely changed significantly since the Halo years, but those games and the content within them were not only a huge success, but should have been a model of what to do to make Destiny better. The game on release didn’t know what it was and to this day there are people that will not buy into Destiny because of the messy state the game has been in on a regular basis. I didn’t buy Destiny 1 until the Taken King because frankly, until then the game wasn’t good enough. Destiny 2 came out and it took until Forsaken before the game was better. What Bungie and Destiny has, in spades, is potential. It’s that potential that has increased their value to investors, but they have shown that they can squander their potential and their future products could fail. Look at Halo, the IP got packaged up, sold off, the original formula changed and now the franchise has basically been put on life support. For the life of me I cannot understand why Bungie hasn’t put out a map pack for Destiny 2. That is true test of the value the player base puts on the content, but maybe the core issue is still the one that lead to sunset and vaulted content. The game is too difficult for Bungie to maintain without a lot of intervention and their options are constrained. I mean for me, I still log in and have my fun, but I do sit back and wonder whether more dev resources went into vaulting content that is no longer available than they have invested in the content I love. Will PvP and gambit maps that I miss to this day ever come back? If Bungie crashes and burns it won’t surprise me, but despite my annoyance that Destiny’s content is lowering in quality as well as quantity I hope Bungie can produce that special sauce again as I really do enjoy their content

[@FenrisWolfUy]

Even if its true that it doesn't makes financial sense to make pvp maps, saying that Bungie is lying is still important.

[@benfox6292]

tbh lightfall was the final straw for me. I quit the game and I'm so so glad i did. I've been so much happier with it out of my life.

[@brains84]

The sad truth is that Bungie has never had more cash on hand and yet the game is in a complete state of disrepair. Obviously they have been funding Marathon for the past years with profits from Destiny. Time to face reality and move on.

[@xKquickx]

I mean, they also actively made the experience WORSE though. It's not even JUST that they're putting nearly zero resources towards it, but they are also flat-out ignoring everyone and actively making it A WORSE EXPERIENCE THEN BEFORE. It has constantly downgraded since the 30th anniversary. Had they truely not contributed at all to PvP it would actually be in a better state then the absolute horrendous mess that it is now. Just look at what Iron Banner has devolved into, it just doesn't make sense!

[@adamschulz9719]

I have played this game nonstop since Destiny 1 and this is the first time I’ve taken a break. I basically stopped playing haven’t been playing since about a month after this season. I got to say I’m not loving what Bungie has been saying recently and it’s just sad because I truly love this game

[@dominickdipiazza8292]

i shit on mtashed alot for leaving destiny a couple years back but this has got to be one of the best takes i have heard about this issue so far

[@RedShadowOfSaturn]

It's sad when a 9 year old franchise, made by a 30 year old company, gets people saying "listen, they're just doing a Minimum Viable Product." New games get to pull the Minimum Viable Product card. If you wanna start as a Minimum Viable Product, fine. Hell, Destiny 1 at LAUNCH was pretty terrible...and even though it had Activision backing it, we ALL gave it a Minimum Viable Product pass. Them Bungie said "don't worry, it's all part of a 10 year plan." Okay...well...3-4 years have passed with next to no PvP evolution, or map content. If that's part of their 10 year plan, they need to be clearer about that. The SotG didn't give anyone much hope that the Showcase will wow them, and if it doesn't deliver in spades? Final Shape will be in trouble. Big trouble. People are dying for it to blow their mind, because if it doesn't, they have all the reason to stop playing. If it trots out the same offerings as usual...that'll be it for them.

[@joelledbetter2926]

The difference is anyone will put up with stuff at your job...but free time especially something you love to do is not the same.....i want a complete game when i pay money for a game and its hardly ever been complete always a patch or 2 away

[@Carlosr721]

Wording in the State of the Game makes it sound like we're continuing on in this iteration of the game "The Final Shape and its raid will provide a climactic conclusion to the Light and Darkness Saga before we look ahead to what comes next in Destiny 2"

[@TomXander]

Sad truth no matter what we say we want or need or changed? Bungie is a business and they will take note of their player base and how they can sell $1 more every minute and that is how and where the resources will go to so that, that $1 can be made multiplied the next time someone clicks somewhere in their game or gets more people to click on their game.

[@TheCopyNinjaRF]

Its pretty much this for me destiny i will see through to the end but after that i will be done supporting bungie and just go on to games that i enjoy more

[@TheBigbossman47]

i get that people should realize that things havent been or arent getting better, but "just get over it and move on" feels like such a defeatist attitude, especially when its something that you genuinely love or see all the potential in that isnt being fulfilled.

[@fpsempire0599]

The people that keep calling out bungie for not making the improvements they see should be done, need accept that they won't. For me, I sadly need to accept that they won't fix alot of what I enjoy, hence why I am not really playing the game anymore. I am not just going to accept they are not going to change anything and then continue playing their game. If they don't want to appease customers like me, we shouldn't continue to feed what they do want to do. That is why I think many people are leaving, because that is what this realization and acceptance entails.

[@nickystix1311]

As someone who plays this game like religiously all I can say take a break . There’s other games u don’t need to worry about your numbers in the game .

[@ravage9050]

Between console and pc, I have around 6-7k hours in Destiny 2(I know...). I uninstalled the game a week ago. I will come back for Final Shape, just to see where it goes, but lack of pvp updates, crap Lightfall dlc, and poor seasonal content just killed my enjoyment, so moved on.

[@levistaeirssr2684]

I want to love destiny 2, there is so much potential, if it dies there is no other game that hits the movement/gunplay as well Edit: they did say the season of final shape they are going to update the core playlists *allegedly*

[@ThomasTheTankEngine22]

When did they say that. I didn't see any of that

[@JustNintendoClips]

Ive been playing destiny since the beta 9 years ago and have bought every season/expansion, even through d2 year one and this next season i will not be buying in the hope that i show up as a metric. Ive played this season soo little that i dont even have any crafted weapons soo if i get the itch to play i know I still have something to do. VOTE WITH YOUR WALLET

[@chrisnichols2896]

Hopped on to play pvp after not touching it for a week. First match got 30 kills. Im like ok nice welcome back gift from matchmaking. Very next match, one sided not in my favor. Tried rumble, one sided with one guy dominating the lobby. Next match, lopsided. Next match, finally a victory but the entire enemy team finished with 2 kds and up. They werent even trying to capture flags. Just kill farming with cloudstrike and immortals. They lost, but were bagging me specifically after every kill and all i was doing was using spare rations and graviton lance. Literally double primary and im getting bagged. Conclusion: pvp is still toxic and shitty to play. The players think they're good, even though the game is not balanced properly to judge skill. I didnt even get mad. And it was that point i knew, i didnt give a shit about pvp in destiny anymore. It makes me not wanna play pve. I had this video playing as i was playing some matches and when mtashed said that new 140 is not gonna change your gameplay, a new roll on that pulse is not interesting enough to grind for, becausre it wont change your gameplay. I checked out at that moment. Destiny fucking sucks. Like damn this game is terrible, and pvp is a cancer to sit through. It makes me dislike the community when i see people bagging and emoting as if there's actual skill involved in this game. I understand the majority of the community isnt like this, but it only takes a handful to just say fuck this game. I officially do not care about next season or final shape. Its such a slog to play. Its repetitive and boring. Its lazily developed. I could go on and on about how bad destiny is now and has been for awhile, but i think we all know by now. Some have already checked out. Some are checking out after final shape. Im checking out as of right now. Starfield is where its at for me. Thats where my time is going. Destiny is done. And all it took was 4 pvp matches.