The Sauropod Paradox in Dinosaur Survival Games

[@thatonepotatopotatogarden9125]

Another solution to the sauropod vs herbivore player is to simply make it so the sauropods have an individual diet of tall tree leafs and the like. Stuff that other herbivores don't usually eat.

[@platinumwarrior1309]

I love that idea 💡

[@SknullMeister]

Similar to giraffes

[@mistywww3199]

Considering thats literally why they evolved to be that big, it would make alot of sense for that to be their diet.

[@shloopydoopersontheloreguy9069]

Beasts of Bermuda sort of did it right.

[@nogo6880]

Mmmmm pinecones

[@WinterroSP]

I get why they aren’t a lot of them. But sometimes you just want to spectate and fool around in a walking brick

[@the_death_phantom533]

Exactly, that's why I like playing with the Argentinosaurus mod in POT because I like walking around as a towering behemoth.

[@Train_lizard]

I have lately been having an idea for a game based on the Morrison formation, where the biggest group of dinosaurs you can play is sauropods, with the apatosaurus, barosaurus, camarasaurus, and diplodocus, each with their own general playstyle differing them from the others. Baro will DEFINETLY fit “walking brick spectator”

[@dognbundad]

same but I use the speed skin and speed sense so that I'm not as slow and it makes fighting apexes and such a little more fun lol@@the_death_phantom533

[@lycheemyusic]

​@@the_death_phantom533same😂❤

[@Phantomship61]

@@Train_lizard Saltosaurus would be "Armored walking brick spectator"

[@lowe_expectations4659]

The accelerated growth rate at the beginning stages of sauropod life is a great idea. Not only is it fair to the sauropod player, but actually pretty accurate - we think sauropods like Patagotitan could grow 10x their own size in the first 2 months of its life.

[@leserdemun]

I mean, isn't this true for most of life on earth? We see the fastest growth at the start of life, and after reaching adolescence, it slows down

[@lowe_expectations4659]

@@leserdemun To an extent yeah, but much like blue whale calves which gain 90 kg per day, sauropods are theorized to grow especially quickly early on in life as their size is their main defense mechanism.

[@powerup3005]

I would also like to see sauropods given the option of eating tree leaves so that they don't compete as much with other herbivores and even give them the unique ability to knock down trees and provide basically free food to other herbivores. I feel like it would make other herbivores more willing to risk being around them. I also think that in certain environments sauropod footprints should turn up the dirt and give the really tiny carnivores/baby raptors a chance to forage for bugs. I think it would really give sauropods a real unique niche in their environments and make them feel vital to the world

[@RogueT-Rex8468]

Behold! A visionary!!!

[@thesentientsword8480]

Bravo

[@laseriedeladilophosaure9246]

C’est réaliste en plus dans les traces qui aurait laissé il pourrait avoir des flaque d’eaux aussi

[@LWolf94]

This will probably sound weird to people, but my only gripe with them is that they are sooooo slow. I am not bothered by being alone or not being threatened by anything. It's a nice way to chill out without having to worry about being killed all the time. But the slowness of movement is what kills it most times. I cannot begin to count how many times I died of thirst or hunger because I just wasn't able to move quickly enough to get to needed resources fast enough.

[@BangBangNoee]

I do agree, however It definitely needs to have its overall food/water increased and depleted slower for its massive size.

[@keishaleadbetter]

I feel like the slowness is part of the gameplay though, as a massive thing you can’t afford to just sit around you have to move around continuously looking for food to survive

[@RogerTheil]

It makes me wonder what kind of balance sauropods' metabolism had (in general, at least), and where in that balance it usually lied. Almost certainly, real sauropods felt a similar pressure to eat often, as their gigantic bodies needed all the calories they could get, but it's hard to imagine they would have been so abundant in so many forms for so long, including frequently travelling in herds, if they often died between food or water sources. It's obviously hard to know for certain, but trying to find out what a sauropod's lifestyle really was like is probably the best way to know where to find a good balance in gameplay.

[@fishyfishyfishy500akabs8]

@@RogerTheil real sauropods likely felt less pressure to do so than you might think since they have quite efficient digestion

[@lexinicole4317]

@@fishyfishyfishy500akabs8not only that, but I bet their environment was almost always filled with available food resources, which is part of a gaming loop that would be essentially removed with realistic food supply

[@putdogdirectlyonbed]

honestly this sounds pretty solid, my only gripe is how slow the attack speed could be because in some cases the sauropod cant land a hit at all, and basically dies defenseless 😭 honestly also the sauropod having little players seemed to accurately represent their lifecycle, assuming like in this video they stay in a vunerable stage for most of their life, means many die off! the few we do see managed to make it to adulthood, the playstyle is niche already

[@KrakenEyeGaming]

To be fair. A lot of god of war and elden ring bosses do the same thing. You can dodge they’re attacks easily enough. But they tank a lot of hits and if you get hit once or twice you die. They are extremely hard to take down and probably would be the same with sauropods

[@industrialgoose4756]

@@KrakenEyeGaming Its important to consider that those are bosses, not other players. They are designed and coded to act in a certain way which takes into account their own collision/hit boxes of themselves and the player to provide a specific level of challenge, but no more. They are meant to die, the player is meant to win eventually. But when you have pvp, on the other hand, balance needs to be taken into account in different classes of characters so that two players start on even footing before you consider individual skill. Unlike with an NPC boss who's code can directly account for proximity to their target, often in these games even very small, underpowered characters can hypothetically kill a large Sauropod or adjacent character by wearing them down simply because they'll never get hit, while the sauropod being an easy target due to the differences in hitboxes.

[@thereptile9467]

​@@industrialgoose4756 I think a good way to go at it is to have attacks that take time to wind up but are very easy to land and can be held ready once charged, kinda like a beartrap. So there is a small window where attacking is allowed, but once that is over you need to gtfo and stay away until an opening allows itself.

[@Palitato]

@@KrakenEyeGaming Just because they're big doesn't mean every part of them was slow... it's been theorized that Sauropods could cause sonic booms with their whipping of their tails because the tip would move so fast through the air when they whipped it around.

[@edgyhegi9547]

@@Palitato and still they where huntet by t rex, so there was a way to get them they arent unkillable either

[@justusb.plorer8773]

I think an interesting idea would be trying to simulate the impact such large animals have on their environments. Stuff like knocking down trees and creating a more open habitat with more ground vegetation for other herbivores. A system like this would also encourage periodic migrations once the food in one area is depleted.

[@jonharrison3114]

Sounds pretty big brain to me

[@Mig02597]

That sounds sick especially if the trees grow back

[@SirKolass]

The migration is not a problem with evrima anymore

[@alxtheguy]

Would be really cool if there were fun sauropods in any of the 3 games. But unfortunately we’re stuck with nothing, an unbalanced mess and whatever the hell is going on with Apato.

[@the_blue_jay_raptor]

In dinosaur arcade on roblox brachi is unkillable. Until a dillophosaurus, tupandactylus, mastodonsaurus, or F*CKING STUPID CONCAVENATOR, show up

[@mikeoxsmal69]

hey, amarga is ok

[@peabrain6872]

@@mikeoxsmal69it needs to be able to outrun apexes

[@mikeoxsmal69]

@@peabrain6872 it can out stam both, rex is just goofy with the bone break

[@peabrain6872]

@@mikeoxsmal69 outstam doesnt really matter when they can catch you before you can get away

[@piraptor5677]

tricky thing about making their attacks slow is that suaropods in most game tend to have slow move speeds and somewhat broadcasted attacks and as such you have to find the sweet spot of maneuverability or it'll be far too easy for relatively speedy apexes or strong mid tiers to stay in your attack blind spot and slowly (or not that slowly depending on the apex and bleed mechanics) wear you down

[@Saurophaganax1931]

This was a problem for the Puerta on The Isle. Slaying them became formulaic as skilled carno players would simply circle them in the same specific way every time that made it impossible for the Puerta player to actually deal any damage.

[@Xahnel]

That's what happens when you put a human mind into a predator. They figure out where your hitboxes are.

[@reeseh7998]

One idea ive seen tossed around is to make it a whip-like quick time event on the sauropods part, since the tails are so thin and rope-like you could try a difficult pattern of taps to pull of an accurate whip strike. It would protect herd mentality by minimizing aoe damage. Even someone good at those rapid fire minigames would have to contend with a pack, where a struck dino could fall back and recover (given a sauras slower speed, it could keep up reasonably)

[@marseillejoh]

Literally happened to me lol. The little shit just spawned in and started attacking me right away. I couldn't hit it due to my attack being so slow. Plus it had venom damage that drained my health overtime. I somehow managed to kill it but my health was almost at zero and they just immediately respawned near me and finished me off.

[@znail4675]

Titanosaurs should be decently fast simply due to scale. Essentially, even if each step takes a while so are those huge steps. Infrequent attacks works, but they can't be so easy to avoid that people never gets hit and their can't be blind spots of those attacks that are easy to exploit.

[@YUN6_V3NUZ]

Plague of Madness made me really appreciate the untouched potential of sauropods.

[@RogueT-Rex8468]

That thing still frequents my nightmares. First person pov is truly horrifying.

[@Anthracite_coal]

yea that thing was just pure terror

[@Its_me_Stolas]

These dinos are basically granting you observer role. Try to go out and observe the player actions with any other Dino. You will be taken advantage of almost instantly as soon as you lay down

[@SuperN0vaNexus]

I thought cool idea is when the big guys eat the tree's etc, they shake all nuts and fruits off the tree's and spook all the little creatures from the brush, basicaling making a small food chain from when they feed, basically making you into a big walking dinner bell.

[@lycheemyusic]

i love that idea omg

[@mrgharial]

The idea of having rapid growth to start and a rapid slowing once they reach a certain point is great. the attack speed changing is also great and works. the herd incentives are also interesting and i think these would make sauropod gameplay so much batter. well done.

[@brendathevehicon]

I love the idea of being a sauropod mostly for the social aspects. Moving around with a smallish herd of fellow sauropods. Idk there's just something so sweet about it. Getting big Land Before Time feelings, lol I want to eat leaves Also those damn Deinosuchus would have nothing on me ~ I love being huuuuuge I just wanna observe this beautiful world i'm in

[@stickempires2608]

Another big thing with sauropods is how good the map is. Gameplay is not that boring if u get to freely move around a very beautiful map and get to observe everything happen around you. Sauropods are so sick I hope one game makes them fit in a survival aspect.

[@beanoptodon]

It always makes me sad the fallacy of these games always want to purely promote pvp instead of vibing. Dinosaurs didn't always hunt. They didn't always fight, just like other real life animals. There was always some kind of downtime. I'm happy PoT decided to make content outside of just hunting each other and relying on other people that hunt you, or for you to hunt, to have fun. Sometimes I like a good pve game and the only pve dinosaur games are chill servers on these games (that usually get rooted out and bullied by updates -BoB- or are boring to play on because of how the game works -the isle-) and zoo simulators. And that kinda blows. Or I have to kill dinosaurs. It's depressing lol

[@Ma121Hunter]

Maybe what sauropods need is for the devs to lean more into the passive gameplay of them. Sure, treating them as raid bosses is a fine idea, and I think would serve as a real fulfilling part of the gameplay experience, but there should be more for a sauropod player other than being the ultimate risk/ultimate reward for therapod players. One idea to consider to help drive social interaction between sauropod players and others in the community: - Symbiosis: What are some benefits to being around sauropods that warrant the risk of being stepped on and smooshed? Thatonepotato had a great idea of making sauropods feed exclusively on trees. What if while grazing on these trees, they also knock down foodstuffs for other smaller herbivores? Maybe fruits and nuts, or branches that smaller sauropods can't reach. Not only would it give other herbivore species a reason to passively interact with Sauropod players, but it would also give other sauropod players more incentive to group up into herds. We could even extend this one step further by including some of the smaller flying reptile and early bird/microraptor species. Several species of birds in Africa groom parasites, biting insects and other harmful pests off of the larger animals irl. We could even bring it full circle to include predators in this, too. Whenever sauropods of a certain size are on the move, through specific environments, such as through thick brush, tall grass, or other lush areas, you could have them have chance at "flushing out" smaller ai prey items that could distract predators from attacking smaller sauropod/herbivore players hanging out near the adults.

[@TheOfficialSmudgy]

What’s so great about being a Sauropod is that your journey to fully grown is so tense and dangerous, so it’s just super special and rewarding when you finally reach fully grown and get to almost begin the journey again by helping the next generation of Sauropod babies to adulthood

[@kingvulturo]

I do like the concept of them feeding from higher food sources so as to not compete with all other herb species. That's just basic ecology as shown by giraffes and wildebeest and whatnot in the Savannah.

[@znail4675]

There are also the role Elephants play, they uproot or fell a lot of trees that gives access to them for smaller animals.

[@SirKolass]

They've always done that in The Isle.

[@Louquethat]

If you make the big sauropod slam attack too slow it will become a big contest of stamina where the large carnivore needs to remain mentally focused and make no mistakes while the sauropod has no counterplay as long as the large carni doesn't make obvious mistakes. That might actually be the best solution since thats also a test of skill but i think it would be very frustrating if a player who is just fully commited to taking down sauropods can just keep killing them without the sauropod being able to do anything about it, so i think they should have a secondary attack that does minor damage but can highten the tension of the fight so the carnivore is more likely to slip up. Could also be a way to cancel the attack animation early for some type of mix up

[@ogmechsftw]

distance scaling AoE on all adulthood attacks could be a solution. make it so that escaping the outer edge of the AoE (which only deals minor damage) needs to be near frame-perfect, while the oneshot-capable inner damage area is easy to avoid also, giving sauropods a stun attack with a long cooldown could work

[@dionettaeon]

One thing that would certainly help would be the inclusion of edible trees that only these very large sauropods would have access to. It's not only a problem for other herbies that a giant sauropod eats up all the food, that barely fills it anyway, but being so large also causes issues in interacting with anything low-lying, which is everything.

[@aarw4907]

Just an added idea, make the tops of trees extra valuable. Since the sauropods are so big they will require a lot more food then the other herbivores so it would equal out to have a separate food source. And when sauropods eat let’s say they drop a good percentage of the food instead of eating it. It will encourage smaller herbivores to risk traveling with these monsters

[@solsoman102]

as a lifelong dinosaur enthusiast who had no idea that mmo dinosaur sims were a thing until i watched this video this feels so surreal it's like an interdimensional cable show

[@TransfemMarta]

I think Sauropods should be given some sort of relationship with smaller herbivores. Perhaps something along the lines of a protection mechanic? Smaller herbivores could be allowed to hide under the legs of the giant Sauropods, providing a wall of protection from larger predators.

[@waltercunningham1033]

I think adjusting hit boxes would also be helpful. Logically, most of the power in a Sauropod's tail attack is in the tip, like a whip. It would makes sense that getting inside the range of that attack would reduce the damage, so the closer the predator is, the safer it is from the tail. The counter this, the sauropod would have the classic rearing stomp, for close range attacks. It is a devastatinghas a large wind up but would be decisive blow against basically anything. Carnivores who get too greedy with attacks could find themselves getting one shot This would emphasize placement and maintain the tail as the primary defensive weapon while the stomp is an emergency move to get the predators to back off. I also think making the neck and head more vulnerable to damage to reward the predator for clever maneuvering and make the sauropod have more to worry about in combat would be a good idea. Maybe make any headbutt/neck smack attack the sauropod have cause a bit of recoil damage as well. The fights would be much more skill based in this way, and getting to the super massive adult sauropod would be more of an accomplishment. This, of course, would also encourage Sauropods to herd up and cover each other's vulnerable areas and keep predators at bay.

[@NLance]

To be honest, Pue is a bad example because it has always been bugged like heck. Could not reach areas because it could not travel among trees, could not eat or drink properly, etc. At least in the recent years. No wonder nobody really played them. The best example you could have given is the old Apato from Beasts of Bermuda. It never had a population issue. It was a god at higher growth and nobody dared to attack an apato even at 1.6 or 1.8. Plenty of people chose it as a playable and it had been my main dinosaur for years. We traveled in herds, grew in peace, defended the smaller apatos, and attracted lots, upon lots of smaller herbivores due to the perceived safety. Apatos could not do much with smaller carnivores but rexes and acros were held back by them quite well to protect the herd. Its only downsides were its speed that required some patience in moving around and the vast quantities of food it needed to eat at higher growths. At 1.8, you ate a whole island of plants, like every hour. At larger growths you needed to travel more and more to feed yourself. But despite this, apatos were a fairly common sight. It was fun. Until they nerfed it, and made it smaller/weaker, less tanky, etc. --------------------------------- To be honest, I would not like it if the sauropod attack speed was so bad that you could not hit smaller animals at all. Even though you say that they pose no threat to you, what is stopping them from chipping away your health because you just cannot hit them? How will they not be a threat? Would they do literally no damage? Or would the damage they do be outhealed? Would this slowed-down attack speed also apply to large apex carnivores, like rex and acro? Lots of things to think about. One main thing is: It should be worth it to grow it at such a slow speed, long vulnerable young stage, tons of food requirement, and slow movement speed. Otherwise, nobody will bother. It should be extremely powerful at adulthood as payment for the suffering it causes in growing and surviving.

[@nikolireva237]

i think bob's old apato was the best sauropod, but looks like rex and acro players doesnt like challenge prey and now we got the... uh... the isle camara looking thing many would argue old apato was unkillable, but these things are usually said by like very small dinos that tried to kill an apato solo (i once watched like 1.0 megalo complain about like 2.0 apato being unkillable, while trying to attack its tail), old apato wasnt actually unkillable, its very in dangerous spot if its alone or doesnt have enough teammates to cover its back (or just new to the game in general)

[@NLance]

@@nikolireva237 Agreed. Old apato was fine. It was lots of pain to grow it and took a vast amount of patience and time investment. Obviously people who go through al that sacrifice should be rewarded by a dinosaur that is very difficult to kill. Not by one that can be solod by a megalo or acro.

[@lowberrymix]

This feels like an alternate reality. I never heard of games like this and wasn't even aware that there are games where you play as dinosaurs. Still watched the whole video and I am liking the approach

[@acrogiga]

Sauropods are my favorite dinosaurs and I've always wanted to play as them in survival games, but never really enjoyed how they were handled. But this take on how they should operate in game I absolutely love and support. Sauropods having fast growth while small but then slowing down rapidly when reaching 50% of growth or higher has always been something I thought of in the back of my mind when thinking about these games so glad to see you also included it. Keep up the good work dude!

[@MisterBones2910]

Give them near-freecam levels of vision and let them be a combination of spectator mode and potentially valuable spotters for allied herbivore groups. Consider also greatly extending their "local" chat range so they can act as comms officers/"radio operators" between groups, as well as making spectating and chatting more lively. These roles would be perfect for any KZbin documentarians out there or for new players to observe how other players survive and engage in combat so they can learn without suffering too many humiliating defeats.

[@Krona-fb4dn]

One issue I don't think some people think of is that its quite a challenge to design a map to include and work around with a 20+ meter model moving around. One reason illustrated with why Apatosaurus was downsized from its first Model in BoB was this (that and for the sake of accuracy, I think it was the right call to downsize apatosaurus as now its much more appealing to play as and with in BoB).

[@the-0-endless376]

Sauropods historically altered their environment hugely! Footsteps are wallowing holes for little guys, and walking through trees makes disrupted plant areas that lets rare new plants pop up. They were like a support class for the entire ecosystem!

[@user-yt5cu6kd7d]

The way you described the way that sauropods would grow up seems to match up pretty nicely with what we know about dinosaur growth rates in general

[@Devin_Stromgren]

There's a theory that allosaurus fed on sauropods by "flesh grazing". Basically they would run up, take a bite out of the sauropod, and run off to swallow said bite, without ever actually killing the sauropod. This could be implemented as a game mechanic to motivate carnivores to go after sauropods, with some sort of debuff for the sauropod to motivate them to fight back.

[@fishyfishyfishy500akabs8]

Flesh grazing has mostly been phased out, part because allosaurus isn’t really built to do this.

[@Electrosa]

A completely different angle for sauropods that's a bit more MMO-inspired is you could turn them into dedicated tanks. If you introduced some sort of partying system, or hell, even a "sauropod attacks don't hurt other herbivores within a sufficient proximity" flag, then you could make it so that sauropods would actually be desirable team members. (Assuming something was done about the food issue, of course. Other folks in the comments have mentioned that it would be very easy to just add sauropod-exclusive food sources, and that really should have been done first to prevent these conflicts.) Unfortunately, while this would make for really fun team play and finally give sauropods something social to do and a defined role, it would also be hell to balance, I imagine. Just like in real life where having an elephant run off lions for you is a get out of gaol free card, having even one defence-minded sauropod on your team would gut the difficulty of many interactions. If a concept like this was implemented poorly, it would just result in roving bands that have become unkillable because they have a squad of sauropod bodyguards.

[@iguanobro9925]

if i was a dev of this kind of games i would make big sauropods just ambient animals (in fact, certain species would just ambient animals "smart" enough to act as real animals, im talking animals like small ornithopods, big sauropods, certain thyreophorans, small to medium pterosaurs and some small to medium-small theropods, also crocs, birds, fishes and few amphibians)

[@Spannondorf]

Another idea I'd have for Sauropods would be the ability to knock down trees while feeding. They can reach some exclusive food, but in doing so they knock down food for other animals. Either they knock down fruit that other herbivores can't reach, or they knock the smaller animals out of the trees. So, while the sauropods themselves might not be in danger, all types of smaller land animals would benefit from the resources that they provide just by doing their thing. Obviously it'd be a higher risk for the herbivores, but that's why you make it some of the best food in the game. This could also lead to sauropods always being on the move, simply because the trees are where they get most of their nutrients, but if they're knocking them down then they have to constantly find more.

[@JessOkami]

I like these ideas, but if I may add one extra idea: Since Sauropods have such long necks, I say gameplay should lean into that and offer feeding areas where only they can reach. It would be more realistic and make it easier for smaller herbivores to stay close by

[@pleasantdashi7112]

Prior Extinction (PE) on Roblox actually does a pretty good job. They have large sauropods like Diplodocus and Apatosaurus that are rather large, and even though Roblox games have different functions (pay to get more dinosaurs, play bigger dinosaurs to get more currency), but the gameplay also is unique. Most dinosaurs are restricted to biomes and diets which won’t have sauropods invading or eating a majority of food. 8:40 Also, PE does this. With the sauropods growing quickly to very slowly.

[@thomasrdiehl]

More mandatory multiplayer games should have a class that basically says "Sod off, I want to do my own thing here!", or rather ""I like this game, but I'd love if it wasn't multiplayer", imho. But, if you must: Give a multiplyer for taking damage to their necks and have holding the neck out of carnivores' bite range use up stamina so they can be beat if they take too long to fight off their predators, risking exposure of their most vulnerable parts the longer the fight goes on. That seems a realistic trade-off for sauropods.

[@aspendespain4606]

I saw that Paraworld shot! Was so brief but made me so excited! I know, weird thing to be excited about, but despite that game being very mediocre I grew up playing it as a dinosaur enthusiast and it holds such fond memories for me. So to see ANYONE acknowledge it exists when I know literally no one besides my family that knows it is exciting! And just makes me feel good that a game that was so important to my childhood got even a brief nod to it. Thank you ^^ (As well as the music, almost certain I'm hearing it. It honestly had some great music.)

[@Crime_Mime]

aw yeah paraworld was epic. My brother and I have many fond memories of that game

[@maxhall5260]

Kind of a dumb idea but what if large sauropods left behind large amounts of nutrient rich droppings that smaller animals could eat. Sauropod herds would then develop a small dino entourage who live off their waste, though the small dinos would risk being trampled in turn. It would encourage interesting player interaction. You might even have smaller predators weaving through sautopod legs to catch the shit eaters. Idk

[@MissyMona]

Here's an idea: Make rutting actually a thing, have sauropods fight for dominance against each other, and display. Give bonuses to those who succeed in displays and fights. That way big Sauropods have things to do with each other, more close to life and actual herbivore animals and also something other then just waiting for predators.

[@zateil1442]

Good idea! Giving them extremely telegraphed attacks at full size could make hunting them viable but also provide some boss-like aura. Limit the food they can get to raise competition and i think they should work. Something that should be noted, it's that similar treatment should be given to a lot of low tiers. While sauropods can be isolated from a good chunk of the roster by sheer stats and sizes, low tiers could do the same with specific niches. Like Herrerasaurus in evrima or Velo in BoB, giving them places where only certain animals can enter gives them an entire new world / meta to move around. This added to how comfortably they move around the map would be a good base imo.

[@kratosdertoten4035]

From an Isle Evrima player's perspective I think that these are excellent ideas. A couple of things though. I don't believe that the game will be feasible for the truly ginormous sauropods for a long time; however, smaller sauropods could be implemented well. The diet system opens the possibility for exclusive food options as they grow larger, one of the two reasons the sauropods evolved to be so large in the first place. Also, I think that sauropods should have great night vision, even if to solely offer something to a herd as there is shockingly little knowledge of sauropod eyesight.

[@donatboy86]

One of the games you showed for a short amount of time, Prior Extinction on roblox, uses this to try and make sauropods less boring but in the end they are still more boring than other dinosaurs. Although sauropods are quite common lately, so some people must still enjoy them.

[@FaustLimbusCompany]

Bro's acting like there isn't at least one diplo herd at Floodplains/Fern East on every large server

[@donatboy86]

​@@FaustLimbusCompanyThere are barely any nowadays, atleast in the servers im in.

[@FaustLimbusCompany]

@@donatboy86 That's only because everyone's grinding for theris and deinocs

[@donatboy86]

@@FaustLimbusCompany Nah man i mean even before rise and fall.

[@gigaslayer1058]

I think that there's another thing to add about Sauropods, snacking mechanic where large predators can snack on a singlar Sauropod instead of needing to kill one and gather it's food. Also, if a player decided to leave or dies from natural causes, sauropod dies making it easy for many predators and scavengers to snack on the body.

[@jaredmc7982]

I definitely agree with most of you points about how The Isle and Path Of Titans could/chould implement large sauropods! But I also think in POT, they could give large adult sauropods the special niche of feeding from actual trees across the map, or even specific food trees for them to browse upon. Maybe have it so that the trees yield relatively lower food at a time compared to the berry bushes, so adult sauropod players would have to migrate to another grove of trees before they risk starvation. And that in turn could be something for predator packs to try and exploit to their advantage when trying to hunt a large sauropod, wearing them down from both their carefully timed attacks and from starving the sauropod out, IF the sauropod's food was low enough to begin with.

[@NLance]

Starving out is not a fair strategy. I always found it dirty and cheap. No skill involved. No carnivore should be able to starve a herbivore out without starving themselves out first. Imagine someone spending a lot of time and effort into growing their large animal into adulthood, and then they just get starved because they cannot eat without getting attacked.

[@MsMoonDragoon]

path has a major food problem for all herbivores so no. a bars can eat from an entire bush and still not be full.

[@crustader3755]

Whatever you do then, don’t look up how animals irl do that exact tactic. Will admit though, it is a dirty tactic.

[@NLance]

@@crustader3755 Can you enlighten me which animal does this exactly?

[@ExitLight886]

​@@crustader3755Doesn't matter if it's in real life if it's boring as hell

[@Cybersaurus5783]

This dude should just make his own dinosaur survival game at this point

[@isabeloliveira5230]

I think the best sauropod gameplay nowadays it's on Prior Extinction, from *_R O B L O X._* The sauropods has a play-style so drastically different from the other dinosaurs it almost feels like changing the game mode to coop. You are so MASSIVE that the game stops being a survival against other players and stars being a survival against YOURSELF. > No place have enough food for you, so you are forced to migrate constantly; > You are too big to hide in caves to protect yourself from the cold, so you have to relay on your pack mates to keep your body temperature; > Until you reach sub-adult, you are so vulnerable that the most of the carnivores can take you down, so as an adult or elder your function is to protect the younger ones; > Your stamina bar is super low and your attacks are easy to avoid, so getting ambushed by a pack of apex predators still an issue if you are alone; > If you play with larger sauropods, you may also have to deal with ferver, a condition specific to larger sauropods that drains your stamina, blurry you vision and stops your life regeneration if you were bitten by a carnivore with infectious bite. So that scene of Walking with Dinosaurs is pretty common to see.

[@dier7144]

Personally I believe that adult sauropods should be a touch more powerful than stated in this video but overall great video, keep up the great work 👍

[@Saurophaganax1931]

A touch more powerful? How so? The video’s already made it clear that they win like 90% of their fights and borderline impossible to take down.

[@ExitLight886]

​@@Saurophaganax1931Personally I'd say dodging attacks and baiting them out is much easier then not getting baited. So that could be annoying as it would be the only skill in combat to develop outside of like positioning with teammates which is super simple

[@dier7144]

@@Saurophaganax1931 idk, they should be able to fight at least like 4 rex's, also im saying more strong than in the video, not in game

[@wroughtiron7258]

Play as the whole sauropod herd as a business simulator. The herd gains a visible prestige score for reproducing, and even for dying of old age and leaving 'whalefalls' to nurture ecosystems. Player interactions based around protecting juveniles from raiding carnivores. One player has to coordinate a whole herd of slow sauropods with their skill against the twitch skill of raiders.

[@PlayerZeroStart]

Today I learned there's a survival game where you play as dinosaurs and I want it NOW

[@honeybadgerbomb4469]

In reality, things like Giganotosaurus would probably hunt massive sauropods like the Candelaros Monster alone or in a duo However, how do you make Giganotosaurus engage in fun and energetic combat without it just murderering everything

[@thecolordurple8435]

Perhaps give the giga and animals like that a mechanic called 'combat fatigue' wherein they retain their astonishing strength while hunting, but once they (or the group they are in) scores a kill (any kill) the animal or pack is debuffed significantly for a cooldown period. This would hopefully keep people playing them, due to their power, but cause them to pick their fights carefully rather than having incentive to gleefully KOS. Maybe even don't require a cooldown, but instead the player must rest for a certain period of time to shrug off the debuff- that would feel better as it remains in the players control somewhat, and you have to think about where you fight, will you have the opportunity to rest? This would also incentivize something like a giga to target down large, single target sort of dinosaurs since the rest of a herd or pack of smaller guys have a higher opportunity to finish off the pack when one of their own dies due to the debuff. To ensure that this isn't abused by the rest of the playerbase, Combat Fatigue could only proc if the giga or pack was the aggressor in an engagement, this would prevent large packs of smaller animals trying to exploit the debuff for a free meal and at the same time cause giga to still feel powerful.

[@Spannondorf]

You'd have to make it not worth the effort. Think about it, we could just go outside and eat a bunch of ants, but the act of eating an ant takes more effort than the energy an ant would provide. If you require Gigantosaurus to take on bigger animals simply to survive, then there wouldn't be an option. Griefing smaller animals would just lead to starvation.

[@griffincrump5077]

I think also giving them unique access to leaves as a food source most other herbivores can’t reach allows them to better coexist with non sauropods

[@ComradeRedmond]

I dont find em boring. Sleeping, walking around, and eating is what I call fun.

[@bkjeong4302]

It’s worth noting that while larger sauropods were immune to predation as adults, there were a surprising number that were small enough even as adults to be hunted by the largest theropods they coexisted with (albeit even then, they would be very formidable prey to go after). I’m talking about sauropods in the 10-15 ton ranges. Playing as a mid-sized sauropod rather than a large one would alleviate the issues with gameplay becoming boring because a few carnivores could still actually pose a threat (unlike with sauropods of 25 tons or larger that were pretty much invulnerable).

[@Todd5747]

I have never gotten to play one of these games where you're a dinosaur, it sounds neat. But your ideas for sauropods sound like good ideas to make their gameplay engaging and rewarding.

[@corylance364]

1 issue with sauropods in games is that they are clunky and vulnerable to predators, seemingly defensles to a predator who is careful and take advantage of timing. The isle legacy sauropods had very powerful stomp attacks able to kill anything in 1 hit. That sounds great until you realize the stomp attacks were so slow and predictable that predators could easily time the stomp and use that to their advantage to get free bites in. If evrima changes the stomp mechancis to be similar to pachy headbutt or cerato charge, holding the attack button and releasing to engage the attack, with a limited hold time before the attack is cancled, it would reduce the predictability and when paired with a trample attack and a tail whip or kick attack similar to stego tail swing it would give them an attack combo that covers its full body.

[@CPPpotkustartti]

Depending on Size, Sauropods can also attract Pteras to them. Young Pteras to feed on ticks and such and adult Pteras to prey on larger insects or some other small creatures that feed on ticks. This make Sauropods also goals for some Herreras that wish to hunt Pteras. Only negative side with this, is how each individual would react to each other, it is really difficult.

[@mikoonblitz5966]

IMO Prior Extinction handles the sauropod problem the best with the Infection system on Acro and other such dinosaurs and the preferred food system practically forcing players to hunt them

[@No_name8374]

To add on to there move set! I feel they should have 3 options of attack! A very slow but very deadly attack with potential to give a bone break or fracture! A kinda slow attack doing medium damage with a chance of stunning or knocking down creatures! And a relatively quick attack doing light damage!

[@Saurophaganax1931]

I would include the fourth option being just literally walking forward and stepping on the predator for basically an instant kill. That might not seem like an attack since it wouldn’t have a specific button, but I have definitely won fights after bone breaking a carnivore and then simply slowly chasing them down and squishing them in the worlds slowest chase.

[@J72Gaming]

I really like your idea about boosted growth to a point at the beginning and then slow down. Very unique idea to offset the painful early growth of Sauropods. Hopefully more Sauropods can get their time to shine in these survival games. I’m crossing my fingers for a bronto someday. 🦕

[@burakka96]

The music choices for this video are like drugs for my brain, I never knew how nice it would be to transition from Paraworld into Skyrim

[@terrytheinsane]

As a prior extinction player I've also noticed another thing: Watercamping. Sauropods are so damn huge that they can easily wade through bodies of water too deep for most carnivores, which would need to swim. I've done it many times to easily kill apexes like torvosaurus and saurophaganax as a diplodocus (the latter of which tends to be a serious threat to diplo). This can be a risky move in some games which have aquatic apexes (namely BoB), and not a lot of people abuse it by my knowledge, but its still out there

[@Saurophaganax1931]

It could also help to boost the rewards for killing them even further like unlocking a special “giant slayer” skin thats unique to carnivores or unlocking an achievement like “kill a large adult sauropod as a carnivore” to kind of put an extra target on their backs beyond just the promise of food. Design it in such a way so that these rewards are only unlockable by killing adult sauropods so that pred players don’t simply go after infants.

[@surtu9221]

Sauropods can be balanced by providing: A) Food only they eat (at the top of trees) so they aren't competing with other herbivores and B) Greater control over targeting. Both are completely realistic adjustments. A sauropod beating on a Trex with its tail in reality isn't even slightly at risk of AOE bombing every tiny 3 foot tall creature around it.

[@alel1234]

The Isle’s gore system would work well with your ideas, give sauropods a huge amount of organs that give an even better growth and stat boost

[@karendixon2250]

This does sound like an interesting solution to the sauropod problem, but it also sounds very similar to the old playstyle for Beasts of Bermuda's Apa. They were large, slow, and tanky, but their greatest threats tended to be smaller, agile dinos rather than large predators. This was because apas were effectively incapable of attacking from the front due to their only attacks being the tail whip and an incredibly slow stomp. Small to mid size dinos could attack apas from the front without any fear of taking damage, as they could easily dodge the sluggish stomp. What BoB did to remedy this wasn't to make apas immune to smaller dino attacks, but rather to give apas better attacks. Now they can do a quick kick or a neck sweep that is much more difficult to dodge. Without having to mess with their already tanky health pools, they made the constant threat of ankle biters much less of an issue, and therefore made apa a much more appealing playstyle. They can still be taken down by an apex carnivore or a pack of skilled mid-sized dinos, but with ankle biting out of the way, apas have become a much more prevalent dino in BoB servers. Now what seems to be a limiter on apa prevalence is server-imposed pack limits. If only three apas can be in one herd without breaking the rules, it becomes much more challenging to find a herd that isn't already full on apas.

[@cro-magnoncarol4017]

This is why if Path of Titans adds a larger sauropod I personally suggested a small/mid-sized species like Opisthocoelicaudia, it's big enough were it can scratch that giant Sauropod itch a lot of people have but still small enough to use the home caves & still able to become prey to the large predators even when full-grown.

[@kadita-legendarysevenspear4533]

Wait are they adding one?

[@cro-magnoncarol4017]

@@kadita-legendarysevenspear4533 I'm pretty sure, in the Amargasaurus release video they said "First Sauropod".

[@kadita-legendarysevenspear4533]

@@cro-magnoncarol4017 I don’t really think that that implies that they’re going to add another one

[@cro-magnoncarol4017]

@@kadita-legendarysevenspear4533 Welp, all we can do is wait & see.

[@H0WL3]

i feel like most of these games need a lifespan for dinos, like instead of just being adult until you die or play another dino make it so that you continue to age and can die of natural causes, this can bring more food to players who might be struggling or even introduce stalking, and promotes playing in a group with different age ranges so everyone has an equal chance at survival

[@StoutShako]

I think that another way to spice up sauropod play is by doing something similar to the Prehistoric Planet documentary! PVP vs other Sauros for the best resources. I like the idea that the biggest threat to a sauropod usually being another sauropod...

[@novastein9567]

As a cama player of old, I Gotta say this sounds like a dream come true

[@kadita-legendarysevenspear4533]

Same yess!

[@alekseev7646]

The choice of soundtrack attracted full attention since first few seconds. Praise the Omnissiah

[@tacoenjoyer8623]

Maybe a special mechanic for their limbs, where if they’re hit enough on certain points the Sauropod simply collapses. For example, each limb could have it’s own HP bar. This would make it more worthwhile to attack a sauropod in a pack.

[@roden_es_1507]

So glad this video exists because its a topic I've thought about a lot. Currently, I have 1,146.9 hours in the Isle and a lot of that is down to me playing as Pue back in the early days of the game. Its nice to see someone else thinking along the same lines of extending Sauropod gameplay in the phase their most vulnerable. Ive often said getting to adulthood as one of these dinosaurs should be an achievement and above all else a challenge. Personally, I think it should take a lot of hours to do it, which I know is not for everyone, and that's ok. But let's not forget, the Isle is meant to be a hardcore survive hoeror game, and Sauropod gameplay should reflect that.

[@RandomMackem0069]

Treat sauropod as a boss level threat now I get it

[@nathanielmorey2800]

I think something like letting flying animals land on their backs would be really cool, gives them company and a way to help others

[@dylansmale]

Games would need heavy migration and resource systems for them to work. Entire ecosystems existed and thrived due to Sauropod foot prints bringing out water and brine-based foods in droughts along migration paths. And due to them being so big and likely to first to die under such conditions, they were often the central point for predators too. Tree leafs and water would have to be a depleting resource based on usage and weather patterns.

[@justmonika2345]

I think your ideas are absolutely perfect for sauropods to be both fun and balanced. The faster growth during the earlier years would encourage people to play them and the slower attacks during adulthood would make them require more skill to play as them and encourage apexes to hunt them. I remember playing an Allo once in the Isle Legacy and getting one shot by a Camara's tail instantly from beyond his tail's extended hitbox. (Tail attacks are usually near instant in these games too) That was how I was introduced to the mess that sauropods were in these games. From that point onward I never even bothered with hunting them: it's just a futile effort too often and it's something that needs addressing.

[@tofita7amed168]

I think the food reward from sauropods should be taken by carnis without killing them, like doing enough damage to a specific area will make a big enough wound for carnis to take flesh and eat it while the sauropod is still alive

[@Saurophaganax1931]

That could even result in a permanent decrease in the Sauropods hp. You can only harvest flesh from a sauropod for so long before there’s no flesh left to take.

[@tikimillie]

I like this… Could also potentially cause debuffs, as at some point the leg would be unusable.. Which might make them easier to hunt.

[@tikimillie]

Could have the sauropods get an infectious wound that would continue to decrease their health over time.

[@hoshitoshi]

tbh i wasn't even aware that these kinda games even existed! o: interesting stuff, and awesome vid!

[@XMfranchiseStudios]

9:09 This is also accurate, sauropods grew surprisingly fast. In my opinion the technique of flesh grazing should be added in as well. Also edit: In a Roblox game (EOT Retro) the Giraffatitan can be taken down by just 1 or 2 skilled Acro, Rex or Tarbo players. So bleeders like TI's Giga or just in general Mapusaurus and Allosaurus should be the ones to hunt them.

[@marwansobhy7050]

I think there's a good way to make sauropods fun. Have their food meter go down *constantly*, faster than any other player animal. You have to constantly be looking for food to maintain your size and health. If your food meter goes down below 50%, you become even slower. You become weaker, you deal less damage, making you easier and easier prey. That way you have to actually work for the invincibility, and that way predators will actually have an interest in interacting with you.

[@RPGTKingpin]

One especially elegant solution I've seen tried for sauropods in PoT community servers is to give different kinds of dinosaurs different strengths and weaknesses. Hadrosaurs, for example, are vulnerable to bone break but heal off bleed quite well. Sauropods were balanced in reverse. They were very resistant to bone break, making predators like Rex and Tarbosaurus very ineffective against them, but they were susceptible to bleed, so dinosaurs modded to have high bleed, usually Allo, Giganotosaurus, Carcharodontosaurus and the like, would be much more effective. This created ecosystems on that server because of a few reasons: 1. Sauropod groups stayed in large plains and other open spaces to avoid getting stuck in dense treelines or running out of food since the forest food bushes were hard to reach. 2. Because of this, hadrosaurs and other smaller herbivores tended to occupy more forested areas since those areas were less likely to be stripped clean of food by sauropod groups. 3. Because of the above two, the predators adapted for hunting sauropods and other bleed-susceptible species would typically live at the edge of forests, coming out to hunt the sauropods if one split up from the group, as was normal due to the questing and slow growth. 4. Meanwhile, the predators that specialised in hunting smaller prey and bone-break-susceptible hadrosaurs, such as the (modded) T. rex and Tarbosaurus mentioned above, would typically be forest ambushers, using camouflage and generally quieter mobility to get the jump on those targets and kill them quickly.

[@thesentientsword8480]

Although they would have thick skin, it may help if medium predators could get a payoff without being expected to kill the sauropod. Like an option to target a small hit box to tear off a chunk of meat, or give raptors a jump and hook on to the side to get a quick bite. In either case I would give the sauropods a shudder action; like a horse with a fly. It would promote more interaction with sauropods, and give the sauropod players more variety in their play.

[@B3Ar34]

I’ve never played but I sat and watched this wide-eyed lol

[@t.a.c7292]

I also think the concept of having certain foods be available to only sauropods that other commenters are mentioning is a good idea, but there’s another benefit that hasn’t been completely touched on. If sauropods had a specific food only they could reach, especially if it were specifically designed to be better for them than other foraging options, it could have a mechanic which caused it to regenerate or become available at certain time intervals. This would promote herds moving throughout the map in order to have a steady food supply, AND occasionally encourage these herds to break apart if they get so large that not every member can eat enough, which would add tension as these newly orphaned players would need to find a better place to hang out before carnivore players took advantage.

[@WebberAerialImaging]

This would be the same as expecting people to play a massive cargo plane in a aerial combat game. People playing games for excitement not offered in every day life.

[@evodolka]

the issue i find is that the survival games always make you play as the GIGANTAMAX sauropods, were all you would do is walk at a snails pace and get mauled to death by things nipping at your ankles for 30 minutes a good solution would be to pick the big but not mega sized ones, good choices in my book would be . Brontosaurus . Diplodocus . Camarasaurus something that if they ran into a large carnivore there is still a threat but you can at least father fighting back rather than just walking slowly for the truly gigantic ones, they should be NPC's risky to fight, but very rewarding if you could win but i can respect that you are willing to give them a shot, this was a good video

[@Ainz117]

im definetly one of those people that enjoys the slow big bois, the gameplay and knowing im this massive giant that all gaze upon in awe is a feeling i cant get by playing smaller dinos, also ive found (at least in the isle) carnivores would group up to challenge you as a sauropod and work together to kill you as your SOOOOO much food for them, it was always a fun challenge. The diplodocus hunt was my absolute favorite scene and ive never forgotten it....i cannot wait to play diplodocus in the isle, its a future dream....I also feel like the sauropod play style is VERY player oriented as in its not everyones cup of tea, regardless what you do to make them more fun or balanced only certain players are going to play them still....like me lol.

[@cypheri1339]

I actually found that the Argentinasaurus mod for PoT works surprisingly well as far as giving the sauropod player the tools necessary to not harm their herdmates. I would regularly have quite a few others hanging around me when I would hang out at a watering hole because the Argentinasaurus has the ability to attack precisely with each individual leg having a separate stomp that can be used to minimize or entirely avoid friendly fire. Often I would have both other herbivores and even small carnivores hanging out near me and my usual policy was that I wouldn't chase the little carnivores away as long as they didn't attack anyone, but that I wouldn't stop the other herbivores if they wanted to chase them off. I didn't tolerate the big carnivores simply because it would have been far too easy for them to turn on one of my herdmates and kill them before I could intervene, but the little ones were mostly harmless to all but the smallest herbivores so it just wasn't worth the effort to worry about them unless they proved themselves to be a nuisance.

[@psychoherobrine3406]

"Unkillable" The isle with Stegos: "Teehee, I hunt pues! :)"

[@xo2952]

Hearing Children of the Omnissiah in your intro lets me know you're a man of culture

[@AquaticFerret]

I miss playing as a Puertasaurus in the Isle... I'd just vibe. Nothing could kill me and I'd just walk down rivers and vibe and it was relaxing. Miss it

[@warlord6223]

I actually love playing sauropods as I tend to just walk around and if smaller herbivores tend to come to me for protection then I would, if someone comes to attack the ones I protect then I would kill them but otherwise I remain passive

[@danielmalinen6337]

This could even be one direction sauropods could be taken in survival games, they are walkable fortresses that provide shelter.

[@Delendar90]

Love the subtle use of Mechanicus and TES soundtrack.

[@MonsterMasher137]

The one solution I've seen is that players that are in a herd/pack can't accidentally harm their packmates, but this sacrifices realism

[@noelhutchins7366]

It's the tank-build, it's no fun unless fast-characters kite enemies into striking-distance; the point developers aren't trying to say out-loud, is that characters can cooperate with sauropods, bringing trouble their way, maintaining the side opposite of threats, forcing the sauropod to serve as ambulatory-gate and gatekeeper: hunt as close to sauropods as possible, they're predatory nurseries, baby-theropods can eat the stamped-footprint-embosed-remains, while large things run away.

[@TheEldritchGoth]

I made it to the weird part of KZbin recommended again I'm loving it

[@Cba409]

Preventing friendly damage in between team members would go a long way.

[@Blitzkrieg8777]

Another thing I would add is carnivore flesh grazing as a mechanic like how we see Mapusaurus targeting Argentinosaurus on BBC Dinosaur, and also make them appropriately vulnerable to bleed.

[@michaelscalia7080]

What if they had an aura buff to other allied dinosaurs around them, making those allies resistant to the damage the Sauropod may accidentally deal them, and giving them a small amount of damage reduction and bonus damage? Then, you can adjust down the HP scaling of the Sauropod itself, and turn it into a buff tank and mobile rally tower for their faction. Call the buff "Symbiotic Relations" and put a size limit on its effects, so only dinosaurs of certain sizes and smaller can benefit. Prevents it from stacking onto other huge dinosaurs but makes it stackable for their allies. Then just put a limit to how many Sauropods can be in a faction at one time. This dips a bit into the MMO bit, but it makes them more of a team player and evens the playing field for those looking to fight them.