The Sciences in Ancient Greece & Rome: How Far Did They Get?

Dr. Richard Carrier is an expert in ancient science. Since earning his PhD at Columbia University, he has written numerous books on modern philosophy and ancient history. In this lively, illustrated talk, Dr. Carrier will compare modern science (from the Scientific Revolution to today) with science in the ancient Greco-Roman world, where science as we know it began. We will understand what the Greeks and Romans achieved - and how close they got to their own scientific revolution.
wonderfest.org
-----------------------------------------
The Sciences in Ancient Greece & Rome: How far did they get? Apr 15
Mar 25, 2015 // by Eric // 2015 Archive, Archives // Comments Off
Science of Ancient Greece and RomeDr. Richard Carrier is an expert in ancient science. Since earning his PhD at Columbia University, he has written numerous books on modern philosophy and ancient history. In this lively, illustrated talk, Dr. Carrier will compare modern science (from the Scientific Revolution to today) with science in the ancient Greco-Roman world, where science as we know it began. We will understand what the Greeks and Romans achieved - and how close they got to their own scientific revolution.
TICKETS: bit.ly/ancient-science
WHAT: The Sciences in Ancient Greece & Rome: How Far Did They Get?
WHO: Dr. Richard Carrier
WHEN: 7pm, Wednesday, April 15, 2015
WHERE: Chabot Space & Science Center, 1000 Skyline Blvd, Oakland, CA 94619
HOW: Co-produced with Chabot Space & Science and with Ask A Scientist.
TICKETS: bit.ly/ancient-science
WHY: Because we’re curious creatures.
Wonderfest works every day to promote the scientific outlook. For as little as $1/month, why not become a Wonderfest Patron? As the Medici family were patrons of popular art in old Italy, you can become a patron of popular science and rationality in the modern Bay Area. (And you’ll get that tax-deduction that the Medici never did!) Please become a regular supporter of Wonderfest, and help enlarge the concept of scientific community.
/ wonderfest
If you shop at Amazon.com, why not shop at AmazonSmile? It doesn’t cost you a dime extra, selection and prices are the same, and a small percent supports Wonderfest and science! amazon.wonderfest.org.
Watch more videos: videos.wonderfest.org
Join us on:
/ wonderfest
/ wonderfest

[@jamesy52]

That lady near the end: "Correct me if I'm wrong." Then she proceeds to ignore any corrections in favour of what she already believes.

[@pabloa2228]

Dr. Carrier gives a great lecture on technological advancements in the ancient world and the Q&A immediately goes into ancient aliens. Thanks History Channel!

[@SmallGreenPlanetoid]

I love when he got technical: "When you think of a catapult, it's probably an onager."

[@yetanotherjohn]

Why is it that the more interesting the speaker, the worse the audio quality is? I bet this was secretly posted by religious fundamentalists just to drive me back to prayer.

[@bryan3dguitar]

I agree that the audio quality is poor. I'm not so sure that it's directly proportional to how subjectively interesting the speaker may be. It seems to me to be more of a technical issue. If the signal from the podium mike is the sound source and it's a uni-directional mike then it would be a better option (unless the speaker often turns away from the audience - to look at a slide show - or actually moves away while speaking) than having the source be the camera's own microphone - which is picking up all the sound heard in the room at that location. And not being a church-going sinner myself, I also hope that it takes much more than this to drive anyone to prayer. Which so far at least, seems to have had a dismal record of obvious results of any kind. It's almost like no ONE cares about prayer....

[@surfk9836]

And like all prayer, the audio is still bad. Prayer does nothing.

[@carlv1379]

It's a test to see if you will persevere for the sake of knowledge.

[@lailajameson5951]

Lol..

[@hughjenkins8742]

LOL!

[@Seofthwa]

Love the talk. Hate the people speaking in the background of the recording. Although it is amazing what the Greeks and other early scientists knew. I learned something new here and It makes one wonder if not for the interference of religion how much we would have progressed to. Makes me wish I had him as a history prof when I was in college.

[@jennyjustice4886]

As Carrier points out it doesn't seem the rise of Christianity had much do to with the fall of Rome, and I agree as an antitheist. The Greco-Roman world was so wildly successful it makes people wonder what made it fall, but the real question is, how did it last so long and why was it so successful in the first place? There are dozens of primary reasons and hundreds and thousands of secondary reasons for any society to collapse at any time, it's easy for things to go bad. The American experience has been less than 300 years, and even now many in America believe we are in decline. From the first Olympics to the fall of Rome was 776 years before Christ to 476 years after Christ, and then the survival of the Byzantines in the East for another 1,000 years. How such a culture lasted so long is the real question.

[@shinobi-no-bueno]

*monotheistic / organized religion

[@erupendragon7376]

First question made me cry! WTF is wrong with people now. After a 1 hour lesson of how people 2,000 years achieved more with sticks than you can do with pocket supercomputers and intelligent libraries... people ask: did aliens did it? How are people not angry at everything lost. How are people not ashamed that today the average child has a better education than the brightest back then?

[@youtubezcy]

I think you are focused too much on the uneducated masses. Remember Pythagorus thought he could tell the future with hawks. Aristotle assumed things fell to the ground so they could be closer to god. They weren't all that smart and we aren't all that dumb.

[@gowdsake7103]

@Uploading Truth He can DEMONSRTRATE the earth is a globe. All you have is morons like Dubay, Rowbotham, Sargent and Knodel that lie and disseminate religious stupidity

[@okrajoe]

Ancient science was surprisingly advanced.

[@YTC1234]

+okrajoe why surprising? So time makes someone ignorant? What you're doing is subscribing to the idea of progress, or linear progressive history, which has been debunked. Yes, ancient people understood math, yes they did experiments... yes they had understanding of certain things. So no, it isn't surprising at all.

[@azzym8794]

Why are you so upset by a generic exclamation?

[@danielandrews7378]

it's surprising because they did not have the microscope or telescope which are paramount in the birth of modern science.

[@KeithMakank3]

modern science is suprisingly backward sometimes too!

[@letsomethingshine]

The Christians (conservative pagans who all had their conservative children turn Christian) ushered in 1000 years of darkness. They said logic and personal/collective human thought could not be trusted, GENESIS AND JESUS said so. They killed all the scholars they could find, calling them "elitists," brought in their corrupt rich patrons into strict (and ironically directly elitist) power, and what books they did not burn they literally white-washed and wrote hymns to God and Jesus on top of them. Characters like "Peter the Reader" are a testament to this, but he is only a drop in the bucket of blood from a desperate lie. They kept all the architecture stuff though, that does nothing to contradict their veneration of some crafted objects (Bibliolatry) over others.

[@robharwood3538]

Brilliant lecture! Amazing. Great Q&A, too. Thanks for publishing this! Wonderful. :-)

[@utah133]

The Greek scholars were smarter than Ken Ham by 8 to the tenth power

[@nowthisnamestaken]

I am a huge fan of Kenneth Ham. I am very confused by this 8 to the tenth power thing you speak of? I will go pray about it and then pretend to have found some answers and not bring up this topic ever again-In fact Ill get angry if anyone else does.

[@stephenwhite6928]

A rock is more intelligent than Jen Ham by a factor of 12.

[@zamolxezamolxe8131]

nope. ken ham is intelligent. he made a fortune with a fairy tale. can u?

[@thisisisabella3634]

@@zamolxezamolxe8131 so did Trump and Mike pillow

[@zamolxezamolxe8131]

@@thisisisabella3634 yeah. for them everything is bussiness and everything is a show.

[@George-hl4fu]

I don't know why he insists on saying "Roman Science" when all these scientists were Hellenistic, or post-Hellenistic (conquered by Rome, but linguistically, culturally, ethnically, geographically, still under Hellenistic world). They all spoke Greek, lived and studied in Greek cities, spoke almost exclusively to other Greeks as peers, wrote in Greek. Science proper begins with the foundation of Alexandria (332 BC), and of Library of Alexandria in particular. Eudoxus of Cnidos (408-355 BC), Euclid of Alexandria (mid 4th to mid 3rd century BC), Ctesibus of Alexandria (285-222 BC, pneumatics, Alexandrian school of mechanics), Herophilus of Chalcedon (founder of scientific anatomy), Aristarchus of Samos (310-230 BC, Heliocentric model), Archimedes of Syracuse (287-212 BC), Eratosthenes of Alexandria (276-194 BC, correctly measured size of the Earth), Chrysippus (279-206 BC), Philo of Byzantium (280-220 BC, mechanics), Apollonius of Perga (240-190 BC), Hipparchus of Nicaea (190-120 BC, founder of trigonometry, discovered precession of the equinoxes, worked in Rhodes). 330-150 BC was the first time a truly scientific community flourished. They lived in Greek cities around the Mediterranean such as Syracuse (Sicily), Rhodes (Aegean Sea), Samos (Aegean), Alexandria (Egypt), Cyrene (Libya), Nicaea (Anatolia), Byzantium (Southeastern Thrace), Chalcedon (near Byzantium), Cnidos (West Anatolia), Soli (Cilicia), Perga (West Anatolia), and Pergamon (West Anatolia). This period ended abruptly when Ptolemy VIII expelled the Greek ruling class of Alexandria in 144-145 BC ("Valerius Maximus tells us that the king ordered the gymnasium surrounded and all those within killed" from Lucio Russo's _Forgotten Revolution_ ). Then, annexation of Alexandria, and conquest of Greece and Anatolia by Rome inaugurates Pax Romana, which allows a partial resumption of scientific research in the first and second centuries AD: Heron of Alexandria, Ptolemy of Alexandria, and Galen of Pergamon -- all Greeks. But it's obvious that, in the case of e.g. Ptolemy, they don't fully grok the scientific method, and they're pretty much aping their better ancestors (Ptolemy for instance doesn't understand Aristarchus' superior Heliocentric model and there's a shift from naturalism to superstitious "sciences" such as astrology). The last scientist of note is Diophantus (if he lived in the third century AD) -- of course Greek. The only Roman who came close to dabbling in science was Varro, who talked about germ theory of infectious disease, but he was most probably citing some Greek scientist he had read. "Roman science" basically amounts to (mis)reading scientific books of dead Hellenistic Greeks, and assembling/copying machines, contraptions, and structures invented by Greeks.

[@nusaibahibraheem8183]

That's a good point. This happens a lot. They call people by the names of their conquerors.

[@AndrewJens]

And yet some still ask: "But what have the Romans done for us?".

[@AbelbenAdam]

Just to mention a few. Stolen 1000 yrs of history and destroyed many more. Created Old World Order whose corpse we are still trying to bury. Tainted historical records, therefore disabled any reliable future inquire into real history.

[@sugarnads]

Albert Stankic ohhh shut the fuck up you revisionist twat. Stop judging the ancient world by the standards of some post modernist leftist wankfest you tosser.

[@youtubezcy]

@@sugarnads did u poop yourself when leaving that outrage comment?

[@brothajohn]

Aqueducts?

[@carlv1379]

...and Epstein didn't kill himself.

[@evasybilleB]

Poor quality of the sound ...still very interesting

[@carlv1379]

Very enlightening. I could never figure out how he gets so much; but then I saw this jaunty vest.

[@kevinishki]

Richard Carrier is the best

[@Nyruami]

Guttenberg didn´t invent the printing press, the printing press was known for hundreds of years at his time even in Europe. He invented the moveable letters, that made the printing press useful for mass production. Before him, there were whole pages carved into wood. You could print them a few dozen times then they wore out, and it took a long time to create a new one. By using single moveable letters the pressure spread much more evenly and he could use those letters way longer than any wooden negative was able to survive.

[@lowersaxon]

Exactly.

[@dynamic9016]

Very informative and interesting video.

[@Griede26]

The First practice Use of a steam engine and the eventual realization of its usefulness seems to equate to the Henry ford "why did you make cars" question. Henry ford purportedly answered this question with the statement that if he asked everyone what they wanted, they would have basically said better horses. it wasnt till people SAW a car, and drove one that they realized how usefull they were.

[@cynthiascott3422]

He is so knowledgeable and explains everything so well.

[@rulax8254]

He was, but he's just an idiot parrot now.

[@makimasbrat5508]

Downloading this in 64kbs

[@trondknudsen6689]

Re 3:30 -- Freud did get everything wrong but did *not* start psychological science! Many real psycholgical scientists preceded him, as reviewed in William James's epic Principles of Psychology (1891), which *did* get many things right and to a great extent *has* stood the test of time... because it was *real* science.

[@matthewkopp2391]

Freud did not get everything wrong. Only an ignoramous believes that. One noted thing he got right is the mechanism of transference and counter-transference which is not just still used today therapeutically the mechanism is now scientifically understood via mirror neurons and is the topic of ongoing research. Many other Freudian discoveries and techniques are still used in modern psychotherapy. And many things often attributed to Freud such as the unconscious mind, were discovered long before Freud, but Freud brought the idea into modern medicine as an important consideration.

[@Griede26]

love the lecture. so far, the only issue i have is the description of Archimedes cart. it's not acurate. someone tried to duplicate it with gears and couldnt get it to work right. so they finally got permission to actually look at the cart itself. what he found out is one of the wheels had a peg inside. and as it rolled, the peg came up and hit a peg on the wheel laying flat acoss the top. and one the wheel on top did a full circut, it would drop a pebble. basically useing the circumference of both wheels to measuyre a mile. with a really simple design.

[@rsr789]

@Wonderfest Science You REALLY need to add captions to this video, especially given the less than stellar audio quality.

[@jewelsbarbie]

Yes, I agree. I wish they would turn CC on.

[@dovstruzer3610]

I AGREE WITH JACK GAMBOA, IS IT SO DIFFICULT TO FIND A SOLUTION FOR THIS SOUND PROBLEM ,ESPECIALLY FOR SUCH AN INTERSTING LECTURE?

[@rickylamar8008]

So wish they paid somebody to manage the sound. Just appalling quality.

[@2ezee2011]

enjoyed that

[@babaloo42]

An important lesson for most people on "suction" @33:19.

[@sladechimera2837]

This needs to be put into a documentary! What time did they have the analog computers?

[@gowdsake7103]

Depends of your definition, in this case it wasnt really a computer it was an orrery

[@danbreeden68]

Extremely impressive

[@Mozkonauta]

I love Dr Carrier’s talks. Unfortunately the sound is awful here.

[@KGB.83]

Da fuq is with that intro? Clearly talented in certain ways

[@mtheinvincible4156]

Freud didn't "start modern psychology", (Charcot and others had done that) . Freud merely popularized his own versions of psychological theory to a wide non-specialist body of readers, by writing books for a "general" public. Otherwise, a very thought-provoking lecture.

[@aciddrive1019]

The sound quality is very tinny; I think it's caused by his waistcoat.

[@magdlynstrouble2036]

Lol

[@mpcc2022]

It's amazing how old automated technology actually is.

[@w.t.fpipedreamwithhopefull5538]

At least run this through a program to fix audio. If your going to take as your own.

[@dickhamilton3517]

it's a pity that the mic right in front of him isn't working.

[@gowdsake7103]

Honestly ? your this dumb

[@CK-jd1kf]

The sound is aweful.

[@robzrob]

Then Christianity said, 'Never mind all that, just shut up & get on your knees.'

[@EyeLean5280]

robzrob Not exactly. Rome and Roman science continued after the empire became Christian. It was when Rome fell and overrun with illiterate hordes, when its civilization was destroyed by the un-scientific, that its religion turned its back on Rome's scientific heritage (and even then, it wasn't that cut and dry. During the supposed "dark" ages, there were times when real science flourished. At one point, Europe's foremost mathematician was elected Pope). This phenomenon is not unique to Christianity. The same thing happened to the Islamic empire centuries later. It was the most scientifically advanced civilization until it was laid waste by the Mongols. It was in response to this that scriptural literalists gained the upper hand and imposed fundamentalism on the region.

[@narreddarr8092]

+EyeLean5280 yes. and thus, you prove... religion IS poisonous to the advancement of the human race. thank you for clarifying that for everybody. granted christianity offset the flying machine, etc by 400 years, Islam offset the flying machine by 900 years. no, no, i understand.. you don't want me to thank you. you're just happy to have helped us all realise what a bunch of gits religious morons who hear voices in their heads truly ARE...

[@EyeLean5280]

Narred Darr No. Religion practiced a certain way is poisonous, but not religion per se. I don't see that Taoism ever held back science, for example.

[@christopheraaron1255]

+EyeLean5280 labouring under false assumptions is poisonous to the mind. someone who gives credence to Taoism or Christianity is not thinking critically. They accept magic over reason. that's why ALL religion is dangerous regardless of how it is practised.

[@EyeLean5280]

Chris Aaron Despite your use of old-fashioned syntax to give your words an air of authority, you are dealing in sweeping generalizations and prejudice. Sure, all religion has a potential to be dangerous, as do all law codes, or all family relationships. But how things are done in the real world matters, regardless of what you think or say.

[@2633babe]

My favorite scholar. He is for real. I believe what he is saying.

[@gowdsake7103]

@Uploading Truth Ohhh really ? Of course you have no evidence for that do you

[@gowdsake7103]

@Uploading Truth Name ONE that I cannot instantly dismiss say your telling lies !

[@gowdsake7103]

@Uploading Truth Wow TIDES moron Ship testing tanks ADJUSTED for the curve of the waters surface MORON 1 revolution per day MORON spinning at HALF the rotational speed og a clock hand MORON If thats the best you have that is why your a flattard for sure, uneducated and wilfully ignorant You have obviously never been to see or actually don ANYTHING have you ?

[@gowdsake7103]

@Uploading Truth Oh yes I forgot your too fucking dishonest to EVER back up your bullshit. You dont care how I respond because you KNOW your position is ignorant bullshit most likely ignorant religious bullshit

[@SiriusSam]

22:37 funny photo with smile on face

[@ClintonAllenAnderson]

I'd love to watch this... but the audio quality is just too atrocious

[@WonderfestScience]

Clinton Hammond Sorry, it was an unusual situation. I couldn't grab an audio feed, so I just had to use the ambient audio.

[@narreddarr8092]

+Clinton Hammond then you are missing out. simply because you don't WANT to hear what is being said. "oohhh, my bang & olefsen won't stand all that white noise.. boo hooo hoo" aw, shaddap. i can hear it all and i'm using crappy stereo speakers and/or headphones w tweaked graphic equaliser. but it's ok. you go back to your agatha christie talking books.

[@ClintonAllenAnderson]

Nice projection.... I have read most everything Richard Carrier has written and I enjoy his lectures most times. The audio quality of this is bad enough that if I owned it, I'd take it down out of shame.

[@akronymus]

+Narred Darr A talk in audio quality below old telephone level is a pain to listen to, even if one wants to listen.

[@akronymus]

Chuppa Quenio You already did pardon for recording bad ambient sound. This wasn't my point either.

[@bmj7883]

Great lecture, but horrible video -- the constant side-conversations and camera movement really detract from the presentation.

[@ilanpi]

I don't see the Antikythera as being a computer. You cannot program it. It is basically a mechanical adding machine. Much more sophisticated is the astrolabe, though it is unclear how this was materialised in Antiquity. The astrolabe is most similar to a slide rule, where the complexity is in the display, not the mechanism.

[@batmandeltaforce]

IF you are going to record, for heavens sake, get it from the speakers mike.

[@eosapienrancher4045]

Why my man look like a DJ in the thumbnail

[@fleadoggreen9062]

Carrier looks like a DJ in the thumb nail

[@alexanderx33]

I NEED THE GUY WHO INTRODUCED HIM AT THE BEGINNING TO MAKE AN ASMR VIDEO!

[@nusaibahibraheem8183]

I realize of course that the speaker can't be good at every field of science but cataracts is in the lens, not the cornea 31:06.

[@hawaii5050]

Excuse me, everything that Freud said was wrong,? I suppose we do not have a tripod type personality as Aristotle indicated we do not have an unconscious for which we bury painful unwanted experiences? We do not have ego defenses? Richard carrier is an example of how a person can be skilled in one area and completely ignorant and another. Freud still forms the backbone of psychotherapy to this very day. Every time you sit opposite a psychotherapist or counselor you are paying homage to Freud.

[@mattiassollerman]

Well, I guess it would have been nice to have found the cure for cancer, solved world hunger, cracked abiogenesis and start colonizing other star systems by now... but then again, debating creationists on youtube is plenty fun. ._.

[@Griede26]

oh great, someone who actually knows what the antikytherian device. despite what many top 10 most misundert devices videos would claim, we do know what it does. however, one problem with this presentation probly mostly due to the date, is that we found more of these items, all perfectly identicle.

[@BarbaPamino]

What was the antikythera mechanism called?

[@gowdsake7103]

An Orrery

[@BarbaPamino]

@@gowdsake7103 I'm not asking you what it's called now or by British Lords a few hundred years ago. I'm asking you what the people that used it 2000 years ago call it?

[@mentalcompassno1]

To answer his first question, No, its not but curosity trumps the minor annoyance.

[@hankrogers8431]

Nobody ever mikes him so I can never get through more than 10 minutes.

[@colinthomson5358]

*SUBTITLES* Ok, oh excellent, is that good enough sound for everybody? Well, lets get right to it then. Ah, there it goes, a little slow there. To get you oriented on Historical time I've, just recently I've got some comments on my blog where someone said 'the Ancients didn't have Science, they only had Technology' and I was like "Argh!!" So this whole talk is a correction to that claim. But to understand the Historical background it goes that to 600BC. The period between 600 and 400BC is the pre-Socratic Age, because these were Philosophers before Socrates and it is generally understood that they were interested in the study of nature. Socrates was, supposedly, the first Philosopher to teach Ethics. That's not true, but that was the lore at the time. What they were trying to do at that period was to understand nature, and they were getting away from supernatural explanations and trying to look for actual, physical, natural explanations in terms of mechanics and the way things work. Really the first originating ideas of Science started then. But as they did that, they started to get, there were more and more questions about method

[@TheHonestPeanut]

I'd love if that woman would've stopped FRIGGIN TALKING through the whole damn talk.

[@johnthekeane]

Why is it that so many universities can't get their tech together? This is easy stuff!...not even rocket science!

[@jamesy52]

What the fuck is with all the alien questions?

[@giovannisantostasi9615]

Minecraft antikithera: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jGSWfGCBe66bopI

[@Nicolas-qs5dn]

Ridiculous to say that about Freud but ok

[@Correctrix]

Why is he dressed up like a magician?

[@nowthisnamestaken]

The Renaissance festival was in town?

[@friendo6257]

I though he looked like a DJ or something the way the uplighting hits him in front of the podium

[@tedarcher9120]

Ancient science was different from modern one, they did not have the culture of evidence argument that allowed modern science to progress, so they got bogged down in useless repetitive arguments. There was also no paper and printing and so no way to disperse findings to a wide audience

[@nusaibahibraheem8183]

Ok, that claim about someone hearing about Muslims using a grinding, but never seeing is highly suspicious to say the least. 1:05:22. He completely dismiss the fact that many knowledge from Greece was reintroduced to the west by Muslims. What a shame really.

[@skwills1629]

He Hates Christians the Most, but Muslims are also Evil to Him, as he promotes Secular Humanism and pretends The Greeks and Romans were the same as Modern Secular Humanists. To Him Any Good coming from a Muslim Really came fromn Greece and Rome. And All Evil of Greece and Rome is Christianity's Fault.

[@ronnielingerfelt6216]

Finally, a philosopher with some knowledge of philosophy, imagine that.

[@TheHonestPeanut]

Ronnie Lingerfelt I don't think Dr Carrier is a philosopher.

[@surfk9836]

@@TheHonestPeanut You are right, you don't think. Read his books, then get back and edit your post.

[@TheHonestPeanut]

@@surfk9836 Oh nice this was a while ago! Yeah I've read him and I love his work. Something I love about his work is how methodical it is. He's an analytical historian in every sense. His approach to history, religion and philosophy is based purely on data and logic. I don't think he gets nearly enough acknowledgement for his work. His methods are inspiring and his conclusions pure and reasoned. Also he's not a philosopher.

[@magdlynstrouble2036]

@@TheHonestPeanut he has a degree in philosophy

[@TheHonestPeanut]

@@magdlynstrouble2036 Apparently he does not. I thought he may have received one in the 3 years since I posted that but he still does not have a degree in philosophy. At least not that I can find. Do you have a source I'm not finding?

[@Ishkur23]

Right off the bat Richard says something that isn't true: Aristotle didn't start science, the Ionians did nearly 200 years before him. The Ionian School of "natural philosophy" (what they called science back then) was founded by Thales and Anaximander in Miletus, and it was all about practical application, experiment and studying of the natural world. This school gave us Pythagorus, Empedocles who discovered air, and Anaximenes who speculated on the existence of the atom. The Ionian School was in contrast to the Athenian School (Plato, Socrates, Aristotle) that was all about finding truth through pure reason and rhetoric. This is why so many of Aristotle's scientific claims were wrong, because he never bothered testing or demonstrating their veracity, he just asserted them. I want to assume that Richard knows all this and is glossing over it to get to a better point.

[@YTC1234]

+Ishkur23 Aristotle is considered the father of scientific experimentation by the majority of Ancient Historians. Sorry.

[@Ishkur23]

+damon page Hardly. He thought heavier objects fall faster than lighter ones, an assertion that can be disproved right there on the spot by dropping a piece of paper and then crumpling it into a ball and dropping it again and watching it fall faster (did it suddenly gain mass somehow?). He didn't bother to test this claim but it just seemed intuitive, and it remained scientific truth for 1900 years before Galileo disproved him. If anything, Theodorus would be considered the father of scientific experimentation (credited with the invention of the key, the ruler, the carpenter's square, the level, the lathe and bronze casting). Aristotle had a whole bunch of broken, dumb, and erroneous claims about the natural world that he just thought up and never demonstrated. He is not considered the father of scientific experimentation since he never really experimented anything.

[@Ematched]

Right off the bat, your comment starts with a false statement. Carrier actually began by talking about the pre-Socratic age, which pre-dates Aristotle.

[@rsr789]

Getting things wrong doesn't mean you're not a scientist... but please, try, try again.

[@dwightballard3868]

I always bristle when Carrier steps outside his area of expertise and makes an assertion like "everything Freud said was wrong" when that is totally not true- indeed there continues to be research in neuropsychoanalysis, with neurology authenticating some of Freud's theories on the unconscious. I am a bit fan of Richard's work, but scholars need to refrain from making bold assertions in areas outside of their area of expertise.

[@nusaibahibraheem8183]

Well a lot of what Freud said were wrong, maybe not everything

[@dwightballard3868]

@@nusaibahibraheem8183 the point I'm making is Freud totally revolutionized psychological thought. Did Darwin or Einstein get everything right? Of course not! However their contribution to their field of enquiry is invaluable. So too with Freud. When Richard gets his PHd in psychology we can talk.

[@brucejohnwayne7783]

I new they had latitude, but I thought longitude was not invented until the early twentieth century.

[@pirbird14]

Bruce Wayne According to Wikipedia, Amerigo Vespucci was the first to develop a workable concept of longitude. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longitude

[@brucejohnwayne7783]

pirbird14 I was in the U.S. Coast Guard. I did the voyage planning for my ship, so I studied navigation a good bit. I am not an expert, but one the officers remarked about longitude not being usable as a navigation science/application until the early 20th century. I am sure the concept was around as a hypothesis, but I do not believe it was useable thing until the 20th century. I will look into it.

[@pirbird14]

Bruce Wayne You're right, it wasn't very practical for ocean voyages as it required a stable platform, which is only possible at sea when the ship is completely becalmed. But it worked on land.

[@gamesbok]

pirbird14 After the disaster of Sir Cloudsly Shovell's fleet struck on the rocks near the Isles of Scilly at 8 pm on 22 October (November 2, by the modern calendar) 1707. and similar disasters the Royal Navy established the Board of Longitude Established by Queen Anne the Longitude Act 1714 named 24 Commissioners of Longitude, key figures from politics, the Navy, astronomy and mathematics. However, the Board did not meet until at least 1737 when interest grew in John Harrison's marine timekeeper. For many decades a sufficiently accurate chronometer was prohibitively expensive. The lunar distance method was used by mariners either in conjunction with or instead of the marine chronometer. However, with the expectation that accurate clocks would eventually become commonplace, John Harrison showed that his method was the way of the future. However the board, to its discredit, never awarded the prize to Harrison, nor anyone else. With the significant problems considered as solved, the Board of Longitude was abolished by Act of Parliament in 1828 and replaced by a Resident Committee for Scientific Advice for the Admiralty consisting of three scientific advisors: Thomas Young, Michael Faraday and Edward Sabine

[@EyeLean5280]

Bruce John Wayne Did you ever find out that info about longitude?

[@islandnites]

Feel like our present day "sciences" are in retrograde.

[@gowdsake7103]

Yet your posting on the internet to demonstrate your ignorance

[@islandnites]

@@gowdsake7103 Maybe I'm ignorance like you say - but seems like about everyone else around is even stupider than me?

[@janusatthegate6201]

In biblical times emotion was in the gut. Your bowels moved with emotion.

[@dayofthejackyl]

There is a biological explanation for this phenomenon.

[@user-kn9ib9zm4q]

I dont know any roman scientist because they were all hellenes

[@njm3211]

Ipse dixit

[@Reziac]

New title: Reasons to Learn Latin

[@malic_zarith]

This makes me legitimately despise christianity. That religion set science back so much it's ridiculous.

[@skwills1629]

Too bad Ricard Carrier Lied then. Christianity did not set Science back. And "Religion" is a nebulous Term.

[@malic_zarith]

@@skwills1629 Your argument has no substance to it. You're literally just making a claim with nothing to back it up.

[@skwills1629]

@@malic_zarith - Ive Noticed Militant Atheists say that a Lot. Its a Way You Protect the Dogmas of Your Religious Faith. But do You Think Denying Reality makes it go Away?

[@malic_zarith]

@@skwills1629 Again, you aren't making an argument. You are just making baseless claims about your opponents being delusional. Carrier did not lie. He made an entire video about how proper science was being done before the Christian religion took over, and I doubt you even watched the video. He's not a liar.

[@malic_zarith]

@@skwills1629 Athiesm isn't a religion, it is simply the state of not believing in a god. Thank you however, for admitting that religion is just an irrational dogma.

[@adam1780]

They were more advanced than most Republicans I know.

[@penzancegunner857]

Dont think you know many, you don't get out of your safe space much, do you?

[@vinny142]

"Dont think you know many, you don't get out of your safe space much, do you?" Dude, the republicans think that Donald Trump is a good president...

[@Ematched]

Pirate Gunner I'm sure you're aware that it's republicans who are trying to destroy research programs and science education.

[@TheHonestPeanut]

Pirate Gunner about 40% of the people I know are Republicans. I'd say he sounds right on.

[@colinthomson5358]

Ematched - The Left deny race. They deny IQ. They deny sexual differences. They deny Biology. And they want scientists to stop looking into those subjects. What do Republicans do? They want to stop teaching evolution to children? Well, 99% of people don't understand it anyway so it doesn't hold back humanity if a bunch of idiots think we come from lower animals, dirt or magic. Both sides are bad but I know which one is more dangerous to humanity. The Left.

[@PiotrDzialak]

... and millions of enslaved that created the economy for all that to work. Note that this is only about the Greco-Roman world, which happened to be only one amongst many areas of scientific development.

[@BrianBattles]

Dang, awful audio...

[@onlyrte7304]

Staunch scientism. Distance of sun and moon are accurate with scale. Change size and distance of each, observations remain the same.

[@gowdsake7103]

Only fron 2 positions. Unfortunately technology destroys that ignorance

[@exumapigtours4375]

How did the Greeks invent science? Weren't the Babylonians the best in astronomy? Weren't the ancient Egyptians scientists and doctors? How old is the Mayan calendar? Is Richard Carrier being honest or is he an new age eurocentric?

[@unicyclist97]

The methodology of science came from Greek philosophy.

[@nusaibahibraheem8183]

No one invents science anyway. Science is the study of our natural world. And yes sometimes you have to do your own research in these situations rather than rely on bold statements made my speakers

[@unicyclist97]

Science is basically testing hypotheses throughly while controlling for bias. That method has existed alongside many other methods throughout history. What changed is the removal of all the bad methods that were mixed together with the good methods.

[@maswinkels]

Terrible sound quality

[@asage5801]

The greeks stole it all from Kemet

[@acabramzach]

Quite funny to hear this guy explain how some greek dudes figured out the earth is round and how big it is, yet they could not figure how close was China a thousand years later when they were in south america. There was obviously a huge scientific gap between greek science and european renaissance and that gap was islam. Without the discovery of advanced science in islamic constantinople, around 800 A.D. we would have not even know about greek science. All those greek books were found there. None were ever found elswhere, not even in Greece. The catholic monks took all those books along with islamic mathematics (numbers and algebra, astronomy, physics,etc..) and translated them to latin and were studied by Copernicus, Gallile, Newton and the rest. So this guy's problem with religion is quite funny also.

[@HASHEAVEN]

+Gébé Tremblay Constantinople wasn't Islamic until 1453 ad. It was christian with Greek Language and sciences. Greek books were found everywhere but the majority of them were also burned by christians. This guy is a respected Historian and he is 100% right in this video

[@acabramzach]

Islamic science under Ottoman empire was dead by 1453. It is during the long battles between Roman and Byzantium christian empires that muslims took all the books from Constantinople and translated them to arab. They actually saved Greek science from those destructive wars. They did this from 800 till when the Otomans repressed scientific research. And then the Roman church did exactly the same when Ottoman cities and countries were reconquered later. The arab science books were translated back to latin revealing great advance from Greek science. That is also good because under Ottoman empire all that knowlege would have been lost. Printing was a deadly sin under Ottoman empire.

[@acabramzach]

Greece, Persia, China, India, Europe, Arabia, all developped scientific knowledge. All were religious. That part is collective. What is unique to Europe is the "applications" of that collective knowledge. The industrial revolution.

[@surfk9836]

Columbus used incorrect mathematical equations. Some people countered with the correct distance but it was too far for theirs ships. Columbus argued his math was better and won the day. Lucky for him there was a continent or those guys would have all died.

[@user-kn9ib9zm4q]

Do u know Alexandria or only Κωνσταντινουπολη?😀

[@craigharris2731]

The appalling intro music clear as a bell; Richard distorted to fuck. (WTF is he wearing? )

[@gowdsake7103]

Honestly ? are you this dumb

[@glen6945]

the earth is flat

[@gowdsake7103]

Your deluded

[@exilfromsanity]

I always wonder about a mature man (Carrier is 45) whose beard is that thin & scraggly. Just saying.

[@ksan1648]

Just saying what, exactly?

[@azzym8794]

Effeminate ???!

[@rsr789]

S/he is saying brain farts.

[@TiagoJoaoSilva]

I always wonder about people that pay attention to that

[@davesuiter]

Fix the video !!

[@kevincasson9848]

Had to turn off! Sound atrotious

[@ConsciousFBA]

So science began with greeks and romans huh? In ancient Africa? SMH

[@wulf659]

Conscious flinging your dung at each other is not very scientific.

[@ConsciousFBA]

wulf 659 I'm sorry I missed your attempt at humor but there is more evidience of that occurring in Europe than in Africa. Do some research and you will find cannibalism, illiteracy, and other awful acts more prevalent in Europe. Good try though.

[@dalanology]

+Conscious The ancient Mediterranean, yes.

[@ConsciousFBA]

dalanology How can that be the case when there was no sign of white people until a few thousand years ago? I need further proof of this. What is your source?

[@dalanology]

...We're talking about Greece and Rome here, except where Carrier mentions Egyptian engineering.

[@gowdsake7103]

The ignorance of the questions is astounding