The Scientific Accuracy of Walking With Dinosaurs - Episode 5: Spirits of the Ice Forest

[@p0laris74yt8]

So nice to see this come back. Hopefully in the future, we can also get Walking with Beasts and Walking with Monsters.

[@stevenelbert8989]

And maybe even other paleo documentaries like when dinosaurs roamed america dinosaur planet planet dinosaur dinosaur revolution bizare dinosaurs giants of Patagonia and maybe even prehistoric planet

[@KhanMann66]

Definitely walking with beast. Still holds up today even with the inaccuracy.

[@cheezbiscuit4140]

Yeah I wanna hear opinions on the the non-european white cavemen in walking with cavemen

[@guiltystress509]

ive watched all of these lmao @@stevenelbert8989

[@KemalMuhammad-l5f]

Finally a video without 7dos

[@dweldredge]

Walking With Dinosaurs becoming dated is a good thing in that it means that our understanding of paleontology has progressed so far in the past 24 years. Imagine what we'll find out in the next 24.

[@ARCtheCartoonMaster]

Personally, that's why it bugs me when _Planet Dinosaur_ whips out the scientific evidence every other second - aside from the more obvious problem of pausing the action to prattle on about stuff that no-one cares about besides the hardcore paleo nerds, it dates the show by presenting it as "THIS is the up-to-date info on how we CURRENTLY think these dinosaurs were like!" It has similar energy to when shows, movies, games etc. put the word "new" in the title, such as _New Super Mario Bros._ or _The New Adventures of Winnie the Pooh,_ to name examples.

[@thespinodino]

This episode was always my favorite as a kid. Maybe I was biased because this one had Koolasuchus in it, but looking back, it still holds that title thanks to its atmosphere, uniqueness, music, and storytelling. I love this episode for shedding some light on the more obscure cold-weather dinosaurs.

[@DanGamingFan2406]

I'm so glad this series is back. This episode is one of my favorites. I love how much it got right. As well as it's depiction of just how different it was inside the Antarctic Circle back then. I love the inclusion of Koolasuchus, (prehistoric amphibians do not get enough attention,) and Muttaburrasauras is one of my favorite dinosaurs ever. I can't wait for the finale.

[@watershipup7101]

Very much agreed

[@genjis5155]

The Koolasuchus is my favorite part of this.

[@BenGThomas]

Thank you so much, it's good to be back making these videos! Not long to wait for the finale now ;)

[@aarondavis8865]

@@BenGThomas have to say this is my personal favourite episode from the show it just shows a part of time that really isnt highlighted in regular media when thinking about dinosaurs especially with things like koolasuchus we just dont get amphibians that large anymore

[@jakobmorris7609]

This episode was shot in New Zealand! As a New Zealander, I was lucky to visit this spot when I was quite young. I remember they had a couple of old steam trains that you could take a trip on through this particular forest. Very cold and damp, but absolutely magical:)

[@legoboy468]

Holy crap I can’t believe the first video in this series was 4 years ago. I thought it was just 2 time flies. I’m glad you’re still continuing it I love these videos

[@captainloggy140]

By the time they're done with all of them, enough time will have passed since the first one to start "The Scientific Accuracy of 'The scientific accuracy of Walking With Dinosaurs'"

[@aidenraptor2595]

I would also like to point out that the “Polar Allosaur” in this episode should not be referred to as definitely being Australovenator and be labelled as an unnamed theropod, even if it’s called an unnamed Megaraptorid. The reason is because Australovenator is only known from an incomplete skeleton found in the Winton Formation of Queensland, which is thought to date from anywhere between 100-94mya. Stating that Australovenator lived in Victoria or Antarctica at around 106mya would make it a time traveller and a migrator. While there is some evidence of theropod dinosaurs assigned to the Megaraptorsn clade found in Australia, none of them show enough detail to be confidently placed as Australovenator itself. I see a lot of people on the internet calling the “Polar Allosaur” as Australovenator without actually looking into the evidence the scientists have already explained. I even met an Australian Paleontologist during his presentation on Paleontology and he stated that the theropod leg bone can’t be described as an Australovenator without further evidence.

[@seanmckelvey6618]

The ankle bone that is the basis of the "Polar Allosaur" can't even be properly labelled as an unnamed Megaraptorid because it's realistically impossible to say for sure it didn't come from some other kind of theropod. It's been identified as both Coelurosaur and Abelisaurid in origin at different points. The theropod fossil record in Australia so terrible we will probably never know for sure anyway.

[@daliborjovanovic510]

The "polar allosaur" ankle bone stems from the Wonthaggi Formation (same as Koolasuchus), which means it is (at least) 120 million years old, while Australovenator and most of the Winton fauna stem from upper Cenomanian strata, making them about 25 million years younger. The age difference is comparable to the age difference between T. rex and Suskityrannus. Pre-2013, it was thought that the Winton Formation represented the late Albian, but even then, the paper that suggested that the ankle bone could be classified as "Australovenator sp." acknowledged that there was at least a 10-million-year age gap between it and the Winton fossils, showing that this was always blatant wastebin taxonomy, so this cheap retcon by BBC became outdated itself XD

[@kyachdistent1301]

Did they not just blatantly call this mysterious mini-carnosaur a 'Polar Allosaur' because they wanted to believe Allosaurus got into the Early Cretaceous (no more evidence he did than with Ceratosaurus, Stegosaurus, Aaptosaurus etc.), and they wanted to keep it recognisable. It's sad to do this, don't cover that area if you don't have a preadator for it.

[@daliborjovanovic510]

@@kyachdistent1301 No, it was legitimately identified as an allosaur and even a species of Allosaurus by paleontologists in Australia back in the 80s. This obviously was not a well-informed stance, but such was the thinking in 20th-century paleontology, that you could properly identify an animal based on the most scrappy of fossils, and we knew much, much less about theropod biodiversity back in the 80s-90s. WWD was actually being cognizant by just calling it an allosaur.

[@kyachdistent1301]

@@daliborjovanovic510So do you know what the dinosaur actually could be? Or the fragmentary bits too vague for identification?

[@menkomonty]

I kind of like the idea of the Leaellynasaura having long feathery tails to keep warm during the winter times. Such a cute image

[@greyideasthetheliopurodon4640]

Honestly while it plausible, most ornithischians only have fuzz on the top of the tail so it wouldn’t look like a squirrel type cute animal

[@LucasCaminha]

@@greyideasthetheliopurodon4640 not really. The only ornithischian to have evidence of feathers on top of its tail specifically is Psittacosaurus. Others like Tianyulong preserve fuzz all over their bodies. Kulindadromeus is feathered everywhere except for the tail. There was a lot of variety between each of them, so it's entirely possible Leaellynasaura had a bushy tail.

[@greyideasthetheliopurodon4640]

@@LucasCaminha what I was trying to say is that we don’t really have the squirrel like bushy tail on any ornithischian

[@marcopohl4875]

It is something modern snow leopards do

[@alioramus1637]

The filaments of tianyulong may also be a lot longer than previously thought based on a un-described specimen from china. You can find photos of it on the internet.@@LucasCaminha

[@franciszekwrona8625]

Finally! I'm so happy you didn't abandon this series. Prehistoric Park and Walking with are definitely what got me into paleontology. BTW absolutely love the track "Antarctic spring" from this episode

[@misterflibble6601]

Our understanding of dinosaurs and their environments is always going to evolve but I am amazed at how well this *_24 year old_* series holds up. BTW by a peculiar coincidence I just re-watched this series a few days ago!

[@thomasmarais5008]

I love that even if one of your video series has been dormant for a while, it eventually wakes up. Dovetails nicely with this episode, har har

[@mrx4022]

I would absolutely love to see a 'remastered' version of the entirety of the Walking With series, with updated information on the dinosaurs featured.

[@hallamhal]

The music in this episode was awe inspiring 🙌 That long tail does sound interesting, most cold weather animals tend to have shorter stubbier appendages to preserve warmth

[@dionettaeon]

I was so worried this series was dead, it's a real joy to see it return.

[@Warrior-Of-Virtue]

One touch I liked was how many of the animals depicted seemed to have their eyes partially closed. This makes sense considering that the dark months had just ended and they probably weren't used to the light yet. I like when they add little details like that.

[@dinohall2595]

So excited that this series is back with a 40-minute dissection of Spirits of the Ice Forest! I know it's the least popular of the six original episodes, but it was always my favorite growing up, and Laellynasaura was one of my favorite dinosaurs.

[@PaleoEdits]

This dropped out of nowhere, thank you so much!

[@thebushna]

I'm so excited for this video! I'd also love to see the beginning of a Walking with Beasts series as well to give some love to prehistoric mammals that are often overshadowed by Dinosaurs

[@fermintenava5911]

I love this episode - neoorthischians are featured/focused on too little in dinosaur media, even in media targeted at kids, and Leaellynasaura with its tight group structure is especially relatable and awe-inspiring.

[@Dylan-Hooton]

Nice to see you revisiting it! ;) However, you forgot to mention that small ornithopods like Leaellynasaura had "angrier"-looking eyes than depicted here.

[@speedracer2008]

Hodgepodge mentioned that in his review of the episode. They had eyebrow ridges that made them look angry.

[@justusb.plorer8773]

Also the possibility of burrowing behavior.

[@jsb1100]

This was the series that got me into this channel and I've been waiting two years for a continuation of this I'm so gonna enjoy watch through this entire episode minute by minute

[@supersecret4390]

Thanks to this video I found out that the version of Walking with Dinosaurs I'd been watching since I was a kid was an abridged version. Mine completely cut out all the scenes including the Koolasuchus, Steropodon, or the Tuatara, and I've gone my whole life never seeing them despite watching the show hundreds of times. No doubt the other episodes have cut lots of things too

[@WAMTAT]

You might want to look up the unabridged versions, they're still worth a watch

[@supersecret4390]

@@WAMTAT I definitely will!

[@dinoknight6538]

This episode was always my favorite because of the Muttaburrasaurus, but also because of the hauntingly beautiful music. It's wonderful, and it is the one that I've focused on arranging

[@JHaven-lg7lj]

Thank you for taking the time to make sure your captions reflect what you actually say, and not the garbled guesswork the transcription program usually puts out. This is a wonderful series, it’s so good to see another installment.

[@xemiii]

This episode has my favorite music in the whole documentary. Spirits of the Ice Forest is so beautiful and mystical, Sleeping Lyeaellynasaura is very tranquil and ambient, and as you mentioned Departure of the Muttaburrasaurus is very haunting and melancholic. The music still makes my eyes teary to this day

[@aldenconsolver3428]

In a very real sense the out of date nature of walking with dinosaurs is a high complement to the series. It was so good and so interesting that many many young people became fascinated by the beasts and began to study them. I teach geology at a university level and the number of people willing to put up with the hard work of paleontology has increased significantly and even amongst those unwilling to put in the hours the increased interest has put a new life into the field. I wonder how much of the corrections you give us (and I enjoy them) were found by people inspired by Walking with Dinosaurs? My area of interest might not have any dinosaurs but I do keep up, and there is a world of good stuff out there for us who just enjoy the learning.

[@doragonsureia7288]

Muttaburrasaurus is cool and all, but don't forget the absolutely EPIC soundtrack for their departure! It felt like the end of an era seeing them walk away with such an epic track in the background

[@christosdoesthings]

33:42 theres actually a meta reason as to why they couldnt have a platypus re-enact this, Platypodes are endangered and its VERY hard to get your hands on them even for a zoo. It was this year that the first platypus was put in a zoo outside of australia.

[@andrewmeyer3599]

I'm pretty sure the very pronounced cheeks on the Leaellynasaura is just because of how they modeled the 'puppet'. When you rewatch any of the Predator films after the first one, you'll notice that the Predator's cheeks will also jut out like this whenever their 'mouths' are closed. This is purely because the modelers created the masks or puppets with material that wont keep the cheeks properly in place *or* the cast was shaped with their mouths open in mind and the material doesn't form properly to a closed mouth

[@gregoryshtevensh6868]

Yes! So glad you continued this series

[@patreekotime4578]

Ive never even seen Walking with Dinosaurs, but I have thorughly enjoyed this series. Great work!

[@pelewads]

At 27:15 there is the proposal that the morphology of the hind feet show that they were used in hunting. I would like to point out that in cats, pray is almost always caught with the front paws. But if a fight breaks out, those hind claws can eviscerate an opponent.

[@MordechaiKarp]

Oh my God I can't believe this is back. Thank our lucky stars. Hope you'll get to prehistoric planet eventually!

[@daliborjovanovic510]

It should be noted that Australovenator and the other Winton fauna lived during the late Cenomanian, 95 million years ago, making it about 25 million years younger than the "polar allosaur" ankle bone, which comes from Wonthaggi along with Koolasuchus. For comparison, this age gap is equivalent to the age gap between T. rex and Suskityrannus, or Triceratops and Zuniceratops, so yeah...the "polar allosaur" is definitely not a species of Australovenator based on stratigraphy alone, just an indeterminate and likely much more basal megaraptoran.

[@The_PokeSaurus]

Might wanna wait til the Montana Dueling Dinosaurs is open to the public before tackling the final episode.

[@MordechaiKarp]

Can I just point out how all of the captions were done too? Incredibly thorough, thanks Ben!

[@carlosalbuquerque22]

I was about to crroect you on the pterosaur wingtips and Steropodon's beak, but then you showed you did research. Great work!

[@thomassullivan4669]

Spirits of the ice forest was always my personal favorite walking with dinosaurs episode.

[@Any_key404]

I started out thinking that maybe inaccuracies were because of knowledge gaps of the age, but nope. Right away the geography and chronology were wrong.

[@ry_jayy]

ITS BACK!!!! I'm so excited. Got myself a snack and settled in for the next 40 minutes

[@potsmokindino]

Since you’re back at it, you need to remember that the dromaeosaur in episode 6 was never referred to as “Dromaeosaurus” in the episode. It’s a generic dromaeosaurid. That and it’s the just a recycled Utahraptor model from episode 4. Also, the unnamed 1 ton crocs (referred to as Deinosuchus in other media), is more than likely based on Thoracosaurus, the large Gavialoid from Hell Creek and associated formations.

[@daliborjovanovic510]

It is referred to as Dromaeosaurus in the tie-in book Walking with Dinosaurs The Evidence, and at the time, dromaeosaur teeth from Hell Creek were lumped into this genus. And both The Evidence, along with Walking with Dinosaurs A Natural History and the 2005's The Complete Guide To Prehistoric Life all identify the croc from "Death of a Dynasty" as Deinosuchus. A poorly reconstructed and anachronistic depiction maybe, but still meant to be Deinosuchus.

[@potsmokindino]

@@daliborjovanovic510 I stand corrected then.

[@TVAVStudios]

I nearly jumped out of my chair when this popped up! I forget how long it is since I discovered your channel via the WWD videos, but it's been... a while, I believe.

[@kimberlylewis5820]

One of my fav episodes. The giant amphibian was such a nice touch and gave the show a truly alien feel.

[@petarmilich8684]

When I was little, I had a dream that they sold the WWD Leaellynasaura in pet stores.

[@austingilles6263]

It’s been like three years 😭 thank you for not dropping this series

[@morgan535]

yes this series got me into your channel, I'm so hyped it's continuing

[@Shikozu]

You just absolutely made my day! So glad this series is alive!!

[@thabas7578]

Its my birthday today and this is the best gift i could get

[@dreamerliteraryproductions9423]

Wonderful summary of WWD5! Well done!

[@GeneralDino-ul8ni]

Boy have I missed this series, glad it’s finally coming back! This series may be outdated as all hell but I’ll always appreciate The massive impact it made for paleontology as a whole!

[@nanotyrannusisnotvalid4820]

what has it been, like 2 years? LOVE IT

[@baterix504]

So glad that you decided to continue this series. thank you

[@anthonycarter4437]

Wanted to say thank you so much for all your hard work on this series, i am about 30 now 😂and i am big palaeontology enthusiast and when i was growing up this programme had a huge effect on me like u say it inspired people our age about paylontoligy, so thank for braking down one of the most iconic dinosaur documentarys

[@BenGThomas]

I'm so glad you're enjoying the series! WWD was a massive inspiration to me too, it makes me happy to know so many other people love it like I do!

[@justmy-profilename]

Thank you so much, I (still) love WWD and your series about it ❤️ 30:20 & 30:40 For highly agile flying an unstable aerodynamics can actually be an advantage, as it allows to quickly shift aerodynamic loading. But it's much more challenging in terms of correcting unwanted instability and wouldn't be beneficial for long haul flights. So there could have been quite a lot of diversity in Pterosaur wingtip designs, depending on their niche. 31:00 Adaptive aerodynamics is a way to avoid a big trade-off between stability and agility, very cool that some Pterosaurs seemed in a way to be capable thereof 😎 Interesting to know that quite a lot of live acting by extant taxa was employed! 31:35 I'm willing to grant WWD the artistic freedom for their Steropodon cast ;-) It doesn't look too far fetched that a Monotreme might have resembled a modern day mammal through coevolution, especially when looking at the rather late diversion of Echidnas from a likely Platypus-like ancestor. I haven't much of a problem to imagine a Coatimundi like relative of Echidnas and Platypus, although it's entirely spectaculative. I'm excited seeing your next episode 👍😊

[@hsdinoman2267]

the wait is is over, but the wait was worth it good job

[@Andidejager.]

For some reason, I only had this episode and the last episode on tape as a kid so I had the joy of getting invested in the lives of dinosaurs and the sadness of watching them all go extinct just one episode later😂 My sister and I would watch those tapes over and over again and I can’t tell you how nostalgic it is to see clips of it. As an animator now, it’s so fun to see the mixture of animation and practical effects! Also I’m kinda glad they showed koolasuchus even if it’s inaccurate because if they hadn’t, I’d have never known about it and it’s one of my favourite prehistoric animals.❤

[@alexfraser8352]

It feels like yesterday it was the 20th anniversary... holy crap time flies

[@sandrakiefler4649]

Yea…about what you were saying at the end, how following either a single or group of animals throughout a set time period…whether it be just a season or a significant portion of their life. Which is, imo the one major thing that Prehistoric Planet 1 and 2 are missing is the episode structure that works so wonderfully in both WWD and WWB. Cause as beautiful as it is, it makes me feel as if I’m just jumping around all over the place sometimes you know? Anyways…another awesome video my dude!😉👍😅

[@idle_speculation]

I’m surprised they didn’t add in some prominent Australian species known at the time like Timimus or Minmi(now Kunbarrasaurus). They could’ve easily recycled the Coelophysis and Polacanthus models, respectively, like they did for the rest of the animals in this episode, excluding Koolasuchus.

[@lochness5524]

wait, since when did they rename Minmi, and why?

[@El_Mince]

I cannot tell you how happy I am right now.

[@NotesFromTheVoid]

"apparently extended the range of the temnospondylls by another 14 million years or so" that's nice of them, do a favour to the temnospondyls. Anyway, THE KING HATH RETURNED

[@a787fxr]

Great update on some details! I love that series and appreciate your thoughts. !:- )

[@AdamGS1996]

I'm glad you pointed out the scene in which the coatimundi is getting mistreated. No animal should be put under stress. Besides, they could have easily used a puppet.

[@FranKoPepez]

Cool! I don't rememeber this Episode... maybe it never reached my country

[@NewAgeTownSquare]

Can you do “Chased by Dinosaurs: A Walking with Dinosaurs Special” next?

[@Ace0Spades17]

FINALLY!! I was starting to think he forgot about this series. In the last one he said he wouldn’t make us wait a year for the next episode and it’s been 2 years 😂. But I’m happy he’s back at it. This my favorite episode

[@altithoraxperotorum5133]

Hoping you also cover walking with beasts and monsters

[@c.r.blankenship9040]

This was always my favorite episode!

[@larrackell]

I love the fact the most replayed section is Targaryen because I did the exact same thing and backed up the video.

[@speedracer2008]

I’m glad you guys are continuing with this series. I can’t wait to see what you say about the last episode.

[@pinkishhaven5158]

0:13 the flashback and immediate depression after seeing this old dude.

[@jeova0sanctus0unus]

When i was a kid, walking with Dinosaurs was just "the Dinosaur Docu" for us.

[@petrfedor1851]

It's fitting I learned about pterosaur group named after Targaryens from video Ben Georged as on for so long.

[@SuperGundry]

I loved these videos as a kid. Ended up an environmental scientist. Provably had something to do with it

[@WAMTAT]

That's awesome

[@vincentmarcellino7183]

So I've been waiting and waiting for these and KZbin doesn't bother to tell me until a month later. That checks out

[@GallowglassVT]

Yes! The saga continues.

[@joribremer5260]

So Christmas came early .. 😊

[@michaelbell3952]

IVE WAITED SO LONG

[@HeyHeyHarmonicaLuke]

New South Wales! Wooo! Where can amateurs go fossil hunting in NSW?

[@anthonyortiz8843]

Finally, it continues

[@hmsbelfast2019]

Its back!!One of my favourite episodes as a kid as well!

[@conner13.c16]

I’ve been waiting to see this for almost 65 million years, I am glad this series is still active

[@zekebeans674]

I’ve been waiting so long I forgot I was waiting 😂

[@rileyernst9086]

Considering that Victoria and Tasmania were literally attached to Antartica by a rift valley, whether these are Australian dinosaurs in antartica or antartican dinosaurs that are suspiciously Australian just depends on what side of the valley they have staked their territory on/decided to visit on holiday.

[@skullsquad900]

My family has always been broke, living pay check to pay check, but we've always been happy and never wanted more.

[@AhkadamaMashiach]

I had the DVD as a boy. Loved IT!

[@lisajanson]

Personally, I do not understand the reasoning behind giving Leaellynasaura vertical slit pupils, it being a herbivore and all… Also, thank you for this long awaited continuation of the WWD series - amazing as always🤗

[@danielbaldwin8930]

FINALLY!!!! now to wait another 2 years for the final episode

[@DarkStalker09]

Wow it’s been a long time

[@colerosenthal4738]

LETS GOOOO BEEN WAITING SO LONG FOR THIS CANT WAIT TO WATCH IT TONIGHT

[@bewilderbeastie8899]

WE ARE SO BACK

[@thebigspudd2046]

Cant wait for the rest!

[@WAMTAT]

We'll be waiting another few years probably

[@saminewlin4523]

This is just what I needed ❤

[@dylantortosa7678]

Finally another entry! One kf my favorite episodes too

[@trilobite3120]

The series has finally returned.

[@CanonBehenna]

In prehistoric planet 2002 it call just the actual animal and not the species it trying to represent

[@adammoll1689]

Best Christmas present!

[@Nmethyltransferase]

At this rate, Brothers Thomas will finish the Walking With Monsters as early as 2050!

[@WAMTAT]

That soon?

[@Nmethyltransferase]

@@WAMTAT - 17 episodes left in the franchise... 5 years apart each... 85 years... Yeah, the year 2108 of The Common Era. No, yeah, you're right, My bad!

[@uhohspaghettios3801]

"The cheetah of its time" That is NOT a compliment 😭💀

[@daliborjovanovic510]

Well, it likely had to contend with much larger carcharodontosaurs, and megaraptorans didn't grow very big until the Late Cretaceous (when their bigger rivals died out), so you're on to something.

[@SawdEndymon]

Great to have this back!