The SECRET of Bulk Fermentation: Measuring Dough Temperature and % Rise - The Two-Factor Method

Why do some recipes recommend a 30% rise and other a 100% rise?
The percentage rise is related to the dough temperature. Warm dough needs to be cut off at a lower percentage rise than cool dough. The dough keeps fermenting in all of the downstream steps, so with warm dough you need to "hit the brakes" earlier, at a lower percentage rise.
In this video, I introduce the "Two-Factor Method" of determining when bulk fermentation is finished -- by measuring the dough temperature AND the percentage rise.
This extraordinary video is based on years of research and hundreds of experiments. This method will get new bakers perfectly proofing their dough in record time. It does not require hundreds of bakes, or "baker's intuition." You do not need to learn how to "read the dough."
Follow this simple method and you'll be baking perfectly proofed loaves faster than ever before.
"Life changing..."
"Amazing..."
"Brilliant..."
"So simple, yet effective..."
DOWNLOAD THE GUIDE
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DOWNLOAD HOW TO READ A SOURDOUGH CRUMB
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CHAPTERS IN THIS VIDEO:
0:00 Introduction
1:56 What about Bob?
2:49 When do you cut off Bulk Fermentation?
6:05 An Example
8:10 Who does this work?
12:23 The Javelin Example
15:39 A Speeding Car on a Slippery Road
19:49 The Tools
22:47 Recipe Problems
29:53 How to Measure Dough Temperature and Percentage Rise
37:38 How to Measure the Starting Volume
40:52 Sizing Your Fermentation Vessel
42:34 Target Rise Based on Dough Temperature
44:40 Measuring the Ending Volume
45:59 What if I overshoot the target?
47:31 The Impact of Overproofing
50:39 The Last Step: Calibration
52:45 Working with Warm Dough
54:34 Controlling Your Dough Temperature

[@davidnemecek7479]

Finally, person with a brain that shares what he learned.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you. 🙏

[@MeliXdupraeX]

Can’t thank you enough! As someone who utilizes evidence based practice in healthcare I have been SO frustrated by the magnitude of nonspecific information regarding fermentation. Every baker seems to “measure with their heart”. But there’s no way to create consistent results this way without having extensive experiential knowledge that a beginner would not have. My first loaf was beginners luck. As soon as my kitchen started warming up this spring I was making overproofed after overproofed dough. Can’t wait to try again!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks!

[@cyn4rest]

Great info. Took the temp of my dough during bulk fermentation- zero guesswork as to when it was finished. I baked two of the best loaves of whole grain sourdough bread I have ever made! Oven Spring was amazing! Been baking >65 years. Color me happy! Thank you so very much!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@emzoneill6735]

Hi please tell me how many grams of starter, water and wholegrain flour u used ?

[@cyn4rest]

@@emzoneill6735 Hi. Sorry I don’t recall. This was 3 weeks ago. But, my starter is 95-100 % hydration, and usually use about 100g. Also I use fresh milled flour. HTHs

[@user-jm9uf9vm5u]

You have the heart of an educator Tom! Great information, explained very well.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you, I appreciate that!

[@mendingmandy869]

Excuse me. How dare you be so amazing and educated haha :p thank you SO much. Im a new sourdough baker and the bulk fermentation was scaring me. I feel so much more equipped to handle this phase accurately!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks!

[@dawnciarleglio75]

FINALLY! Someone who gets it! Thank you so much for this and all of your other informative videos from the first. You have combined the mind and talents of a science teacher with the enthusiasm and creativity of an artisan baker. You should be very proud. Yours seems to be the only no-nonsense sourdough channel out there! Keep it up and Thanks again! Your friend in sourdough from CT, Dawn Ciarleglio.

[@NikoOkamoto]

He's even got a little comedian in him, too. I love Tom and this channel!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you! I appreciate the feedback.

[@27kjh]

This video was absolutely awesome! You’ve made measuring, time and temperature so much clearer. You answered all the questions I’ve had, and even some that I didn’t even know I had. You’ve help me understand the process so much better. Thank you.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks for watching!

[@teod.2779]

Thank you, Tom! Such a scientific approach to sourdough baking, taking into account so many variables, as usual! Great work!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you.

[@02nov56]

Worked great for me! Have only been on my ‘sourdough craze’ since the beginning of Feb 2024 when I decided to create a sourdough starter. I’m hooked! But it has been cold here and was wondering how the dough will respond when our hot summers get here. Had a blazing fire going and thought I’d experiment with bulk fermentation times while the room was at a warmer temp. Dough temperature was 76 degrees and I followed the chart for bulk fermentation. The dough ended up being a whole different consistency, frankly I was concerned as to how the bread would turn out. It ended up with a spectacular ear, and a perfect crumb! Am so pleased, thank you!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks for the feedback!

[@MrJeGeir]

LOVE ❤ how precise you are! Love the use of the metric system!! This is backing on the next lvl!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks 🙏

[@NikoOkamoto]

OMG, this is such a gamechanger. Your simple chart provides so much clarity. Your video and this information really removes the mystery and frustration about bulk fermentation and for the first time, I feel confident my next loaf will be perfectly proofed. At last!!!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you.

[@soniacosgrove]

I had so many a-ha moments watching this! Even though I have heard you explain this before, there was something in the way you explained it that just made sense to me! I will be watching and studying this over and over. Thank you for your work involved in putting this together 🥰

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you. I appreciate the feedback and am happy to help.

[@hdesutter]

This video is PRICELESS! You have a gift, Tom. Much appreciated!! 🙌🏽👏🏽 Wish I had this when I first started but, this just validates I understand the process correctly. Thank you!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@janiggulden4193]

Another outstanding video! You've covered all the variables, and answered every question that came to mind while watching. Your analogies are excellent illustrations. I might just finally get the whole bulk fermentation thing down! Thank you for being the scientist on our behalf!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@justforkicks4427]

one of the best videos I've seen on youtube regarding sourdough honestly.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you! 🙏

[@grahamhagerty8648]

As a beginner and a scientist, I really appreciate addressing so many of the quirks that appear in most sourdough "logic". It was driving me crazy! Thanks👍👍

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks!

[@lindarogers871]

Great video! Thanks for drawing me a picture. I totally get it now!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@rosyperu88]

I’m so glad I found your channel Tom. Thank you for all the information here. I’ve been making sourdough for a year and I’ve been overproofing through the winter because my kitchen is warmer. I never thought to take the dough temperature. Your scientific studies have helped me to finally understand the chemistry behind fermentation. I will print your work and keep learning from you. Thank you again

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you! 🙏

[@emmabaido458]

Something that finally makes sense! Absolutely loved this video. Thank you so much.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks. 🙏

[@KN-ks6zf]

Thanks for the information, Tom. You're so passionate to sourdough. The most informative sourdough video I've ever watched. This is definitely will be my guide for bulk fermentation from now on. Appreciate your time and your work, professor 🙏. Magnificent work!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you.

[@dianapagnucco8161]

wow the javelin demo was incredible - thank you for your confidence, patience, and belief in all of us out here trying to understand what the heck we're doing - you're a HUGE help and a wonderful teacher!!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you so much. I appreciate the feedback. It took me two years to come up with an analogy that really worked. I had a very complicated hot air balloon analogy too. Glad I didn’t need to use that one. 🥸

[@dianapagnucco8161]

haha i'm an analogy junkie too - when you come up with a good one, it's a great feeling - the santa-mobile is good and funny too :) @@thesourdoughjourney

[@michelleb3867]

😮💡This is so helpful! This is my first winter baking sourdough, and I’ve been confused why the same process is leading to different results. It takes way more time to bulk ferment, which made sense due to colder temps, but I never thought about the role that the temp played in relation to the percentage rise before I popped my loaves into the fridge. Excited to see how my next loaves turn out! Thank you for all the time and energy you put into making your videos!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Good luck. Let me know how it works out!

[@morrellirocks]

Wow so so helpful!! I love how your delivery the information as I laughed and learned at the same time. Thank you!!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you. 🙏

[@claudiar.4815]

Tartine country loaf has been the only recipe that has been so consistent and I love it. Thank you for this great video. ❤❤❤

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@gn4054]

Many thanks, Tom, for the detailed and clear info! That really helps!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you

[@grahamsmith5952]

For so long I've been guessing at what variables to change based on instructions from books and videos on WHAT to do but not WHY to do it. Such a relief to find someone who so clearly explains why things work the way they do. Loved the santa low-rider analogy too. Hilarious

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@Pa2m2ela22]

This is so helpful- game changer for sure!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks.

[@rixtusdonau9098]

This is so good! My other hobby requires me to plot trajectories very accurately and The Javelin Example made so much sense. Thank you Tom. Flour Power!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you. I tried for years to come up with an analogy that worked. I had a very complicated hot air balloon analogy. Glad I found the javelin one. 😀

[@lolajacomino6574]

I finally have a guide. So many KZbinrs need to see your videos 🙄 Thank you so much Tom ❤

[@thesourdoughjourney]

thank you.

[@alfontana6242]

Good job Tom you knocked it out of the park again. Every time I see one of your videos I learn something new even though I’ve been making sourdough bread for nearly four years.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you 🙏

[@DANVIIL]

Well done! The final key to getting great sourdough loaves. Thanks!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you. I always appreciate your feedback.

[@cciieerraar32]

Your videos and information has helped me a great deal over this last year! Thank you. Would love for you to do a video on bulk fermentation doing a different type of loaf. Like a sandwich bread when adding in things like butter/oil, sugar/honey, maybe an egg. And how those ingredients affect bulk fermentation time.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you. I will add that to my future list of topics.

[@lindahammond249]

Ive learned so much from this video. Thank you for sharing your knowledge!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks!

[@myhappyplace5597]

Thanks Tom. Great video.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@an4950]

3 loaves later and I cant thank you enough Tom. You are my favorite Sourdough person! ❤🎉

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@magdalenarzeplinska]

Mine too. Greetings from Warsaw, Poland. ❤️😀

[@bethgolson7391]

Such great information!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@GG-qg2iu]

I kept seeing this chart come up on all the Facebook groups and they didn't quite understand it. I knew absolutely nothing about sourdough or how it rose or how it was different from regular yeasted breads. Now I know! It's been a couple of months so I'm definitely going to try this! I really think lack of oven spring is related to over fermentation. Thank you so much. Funny thing is my kitchen isn't even on here.. in the winter it's about 62° on average lol

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks. Good luck!

[@cherylhaynes3214]

Thank you so much. With every video I learn a little bit more.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@dandooon99]

Tom, this is an amazing job really useful for all ppl around the world

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you! 🙏

[@danielhiam5108]

Thank you so much for this info. This has zeroed in my proofing. Just took my bread out of oven and it's the best one yet. Game changer for sure.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

thank you.

[@magelinekelley7536]

It’s definitely sourdough journey life changing! Thank you!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you.

[@patriciazander2072]

I came back to your channel per Nim's (nimcm on KZbin) recommendation...I have been jumping around to many different sourdough experts on KZbin...and I think I am finally discovery a substantive site with you....thank you for all you do...PS the gentleman who authors the Perfect Loaf channel does say that temperature is one of the ingedients of sourdough and should be seriously addressed in the same manner as all the other ingredients...but your scientific explanation (your graph on your website is excellent) supports such a statement...and the car braking analogy is excellent as well....

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@MatheusCdePaula]

Hi, Tom! Fairly new to sourdough baking and summer in Brazil makes everything even harder because of high temperatures. I’ve been looking at a lot of videos on KZbin, reading blogs and Reddit threads about sourdough but honestly this video here is by far the best content I’ve found. I’m a stickler when it comes to measuring and as you said, almost no recipe gives you all the three parameters. Also, whenever I remotely tried to double my dough, it would become a liquid mess. So thank you for being a cranky old dude, I’ll try to bake again this weekend with a fresh perspective 😊

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you! Here’s another method to consider if your kitchen is warm. thesourdoughjourney.com/what-is-two-stage-bulk-fermentation/

[@MatheusCdePaula]

@@thesourdoughjourney thank you! I’ll definitely try this method as well.

[@alejandrodavila3411]

Hello from Mexico! I have followed your videos and this one is really awesome. I tried immediately / the day I watched. I marked a new container (with my wifes's permission of course) and started to measure. My dough grew to 75% which is what the chart showed, but I think I still need some more, since the crumb was not as open. Thank you very much !

[@thesourdoughjourney]

This guidance is generally on the low end. If it under, add 10% on the next try. You’ll dial it in after 3-5 bakes.

[@supernoobsmith5718]

This is a revelation....even for yeasted breads. Great work my friend.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@supernoobsmith5718]

Been baking regular bread for about 1 year. And just recently began relying on dough temp to rise in a timely fashion in my coldish kitchen 68F or less. But now I can tell I've been bulk rising too long when I began manipulating the dough temp. I created a sourdough starter recently that is just now beginning to come to maturity, and I will use your valuable information here, and know I will have success sooner than later. @@thesourdoughjourney

[@johnp1992]

😂😂 Thanks again Tom!! …Such important information! …So well presented! … AND So much fun to watch!!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@shellymcfalls3147]

HO-LEE-COW. I’m using this chart for the first time today. I’ll never do it another way. EVER. This is truly amazing. Thank you for doing the work. Thank you for sharing the results. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks you.

[@sibelsara5464]

Votre vidéo est magnifique et très bien expliquée merciiiiii

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you.

[@christine77771]

Wow seriously thank you so much! I’m going to put this into practice on my next few loaves.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you.

[@tims.9883]

Great video thanks. Your videos are very informative. My first sourdough was with whole spelt and a spelt starter using your method, it turned out good. The tartine guy said in an interview on KZbin that any variation of bread he makes starts with the starter you mentioned, which I have not tried yet. Would love to see how you make sourdough pizza.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks. I’m thinking about a pizza video for later this year.

[@vstier1]

You answered a lot of questions here!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you. There’s even more in the printable guide.

[@devjaniroy9147]

Thank you so much We have extreme temperatures here …so this information is very helpful

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks. Also check out this method. thesourdoughjourney.com/what-is-two-stage-bulk-fermentation/

[@ddr80]

the how to read crumbs photos along with this temperature dependent fermentation chart are game changer, finally figured out why my dough is sometimes way over proofed and sometimes under

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@LizHolbrook-iq4me]

After 4 months of trying to make sourdough bread, temping the dough and following this chart finally worked for me!!! In this 4 month process, I even bought a bread proofer, which actually made my bread worse. Turned out my dough was very warm and I was overproofing my bread. Once I cut off the bulk fermentation at about 3 hrs 45 minutes, my sourdough bread is perfect…..the bread of my dreams.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks for sharing!

[@gaurlglmistrz]

ooooh, nice, I'm saving dis to watch later.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks.

[@gaurlglmistrz]

why, thank YOU! :)@@thesourdoughjourney

[@lissyperez4299]

Thank you so much! This was a game changer for me since seems like I either overproofed or underproofed based on our house temperature. We keep our house very cool in the winter so it takes forever for it to ferment, I just did one at 18 hours and still had a great dough at 75% proofing after I saw your video! In the summer I tried to leave it overnight only because it's easier to make bread that way and guess what definitely overproofed it! So I guess I will do a much shorter proofing this coming summer.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Glad it was helpful!

[@thetwopointslow]

Yo Tom! Another great video, you’re second-to-none in illustrating these concepts with entertaining examples. Would love to see you bake some loaves with additions, like nuts and/or fruit. It’d be interesting to learn the best times at which to add those extra solid ingredients to the dough, as well as how fermentation time is affected. Forgive me if this is something you’ve tackled already but it’d be neat to hear your take.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Great suggestion. I haven’t made a video, but here’s a technique I use for even distribution. thesourdoughjourney.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/How-to-Evenly-Laminate-Add-ins-in-Sourdough.pdf

[@princess-rosethedadybunch7755]

Sourdough Genius. Can't wait try

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you.

[@user-gi6xq3bg4c]

Me again….just got to the point that my question was answered in the video! Great instructions! 🤞🏻🤞🏻

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks

[@SidAuteur]

Wish I'd read this last night LOL. Just put a loaf in and might have over done the bulk last night. We'll see. As always though, great information from a baker who really puts in the work to understand and refine the processes. This gentleman taught me how to bake bread and I've been baking at least two loafs of great bread a week since I discovered him. Thanks Tom!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks! 🙏

[@KogakuKing]

All I can say is “THIS WORKS!” Just pulled my first loaf using this technique from the oven. Beautiful! As is common in sourdough baking, there are always surprises. This bake was no exception. Based on 81° target dough temp, my “Rise Time” was estimated at a little less than 5-6 hours. I was quite surprised when, at an ambient temperature of 79-80°, my dough hit the target volume in 3.5 hours! I was momentarily very skeptical about the accuracy of the bulk fermentation chart. But, as you would say, “…In the interest of science and transparency …” I decided to trust the math and see where it went. Glad I did. The loaf was beautiful; better than I imagined. Had I let the dough ferment any longer I surely would have over-proofed the dough. Happy Day 😊

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you for the feedback!

[@PodsofWar]

A Christmas tragedy! 😂 I love your humor and also the delivery

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@NikoOkamoto]

At this very minute, my FIRST by-the-book (as opposed to improvisations of) Tartine Country Loaf is bulk fermenting, using your proven methods. Completely different S&F experience, insane windowpaning, and now just waiting for the dough to reach 140% @ 77°F. This loaf is going to be epic. Thank you!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you! Good luck!

[@pattyfigarola5057]

Another great video - thanks so much! I just wanted to share a little Tik Tok tip (I know how much you love those!). There’s a microbakery owner that posted a technique where she bulk ferments at 80 degrees F and will use an aliquot jar. Nothing new there, but her spin on it is that she places 40g of her dough (after all ingredients have been mixed / pre- stretch & fold) into a 2 oz condiment container like what I used to use to make Jell-O shots back in college. She’s figured out that if she lets the dough rise until it hits the lid of this container, that indicates a 30% rise. I’ve tried it and I think it works, but I prefer just placing all of my dough into a 2,000 ml measuring bowl like you have and measuring my rise from there. What I find interesting is that several others have commented and posted videos saying that this has worked for them with whatever room temperature their house is at. That part doesn’t make sense to me. I just thought it was interesting and wanted to share.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you. Yes, I’ve seen that. I haven’t tried it yet, but I will.

[@betsyward3683]

Thank you so much !!!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks.

[@danacamarasan9272]

Thank you!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks.

[@abbykennedy9275]

I recently found your channel and I love your scientific approach to sourdough baking! It's so frustrating when people say things like "with experience, you'll learn to naturally read the dough." No thanks, I like charts and graphs to really understand the science. Please keep making these videos of your sourdough journey :-)

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you! “Just read the dough” is the laziest instruction I’ve ever heard in my life. “Just swing the bat.. “Just throw the ball…” “Just swing the club…” “just read the dough…”

[@abbykennedy9275]

I posted my last comment before I finished the entire video and now I can say that in my opinion this is hands down the BEST video I've seen on bulk fermentation. Thank you! I can't wait to try it when I bake tomorrow :-) Do you think that additions to the dough (such as raisins, cheese, etc.) will impact the formula?

[@thesourdoughjourney]

As long as you follow a consistent method it should still work. Adding inclusions will raise the starting volume in milliliters. But the target percentage rise should remain the same.

[@StefanOnFurch]

Great video, Tom! Makes me want to do another attempt at making sourdough.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks!

[@damullins]

Thank you so much! You are the best. You should write a book on sourdough. It would be a best seller among sourdough bakers. I appreciate all you do. The information I have gained from you has changed everything about my bread for the better.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

thank you so much. My website is my “working draft.”

[@AshMo23]

I love this!. Santas drive was so great. We can’t have Christmas be canceled!😂 Thank you for explaining that In such a visual way. I get it now!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you 🙏

[@barneybilello7606]

Tom, your videos and website are by far the best out there for sourdough bakers. After a few months of watching your work I finally have consistency in my loaves that I did not have before. This video completely answers my confusion on when to end bulk fermentation. Thank you! I have one question that you did address a bit earlier in response to another viewer’s comment. I typically only make 1-2 loaves at time. Can we use your methodology that you discussed in this video if we scale up to a larger amount of dough?

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Yes. Sometimes I’ll mix a large batch and pull out one batch worth and out it in a separately for monitoring the rise. Then I assume both batches are rising equivalently but it is easier to see in a single batch. You want to ensure the dough temp remains the same between both.

[@barneybilello7606]

@@thesourdoughjourney Thank you!

[@dashermike3207]

Well I’m unable to get as involved or as accurate as you seem to get but I do want to say thanks for this very extensive explanation because for the first time in my three years of trying to produce good sourdough bread I have started paying much more attention to dough temperature and I have stopped rushing the necessary rise time. Now my crum is much lighter and my crust is a lot crisper, thinner, and easier to eat. I appreciate the info very much!

[@dashermike3207]

In other words for years I have been under proofing the dough. Since watching this video I now just get out of the way and allow the dough to proof closer to what is ideal. Still imperfect but a 100% better.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Glad it helped!

[@hobbyless4089]

This video reminded me of my chemistry class back in college. Rate of kinetics to be exact, the rate at which certain reactions occur plays an important role. Good information, I like the science based method you present.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks!

[@JLZwissRN1950]

Thanks!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@emilisgegevicius7018]

Thanks so much, Tom! As always, very very helpful. Really appreciate your scientific approach. Just curious, when can we expect a video on tracking bulk fermentation using pH? Just grabbed my Apera pH meter using your code and very much looking forward to tracking bulk fermentation better. Thanks!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks! I am still experimenting with the pH meters. I'm not certain I have it nailed down yet (and it's been a while!) It's on my list of topics. Maybe late spring timing. Thanks again. I appreciate the support.

[@emilisgegevicius7018]

@@thesourdoughjourney awesome! Very much looking forward. We'll compare notes then afterwards, haha.

[@quentinmarsh3449]

Thank you

[@thesourdoughjourney]

You're welcome

[@candywalker483]

Thank you for all your videos. I have been milling a year now. Usually a combo of hard white and red. Since it works best pushing the hydration as high as you can manage (since thirstier than commercial flour) and robust fermentation I wonder how this affects the bulk rise. Assume shorter but I am still having trouble determining how to read my dough. Better at it but had a fail a couple days ago. So overproofed it was sticky and tearing as I was shaping it.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Yes. Shorter time and lower rise white fresh milled typically.

[@MarkKrebs]

Hi folks. I'm a month in, and loving THE IIftAoSS&R of Cleveland, Ohio. The videos have all been good and I've just baked my first really good loaf. This video touches one of the main points for me which was to vigilantly watch and quickly arrest a fast warm ferment, 'cause it's got momentum! Altogether, I had 5 major technique tweaks that made my bread go from breadmaker-machine-quality to really good. IYI: 1) Bought some thermometers: like this video says, dough temp matters while fermenting. 2) Got a dutch oven and I spritz the bread when i put it in. (I'm at high altitude, btw.) 3) Measure! The crazy mistake I made was, I have some pint glasses, and I know how big a pint is, and the density of water so I scaled my recipe to match, with water and starter adding up to exactly a pint. (Don't try this at home kids: I'm a rocket scientist.) Well, pride goeth before a fall as they say... As it turns out, my scale reads 8% low! That induced a chain of disasters until I happened to notice and tracked down why my pint glass contained only 430g of water instead of 473g. The scale factor error is tolerable, but only if you weigh everything, even the water. Not so genius after all, eh smart boy? 4) My oven was 20deg cold. Score another point for thermometers. 5) I got a banneton and cloth. Thanks Tom, for this whole series. All of this has been very rewarding. photos.app.goo.gl/yZ2MdG9Vn91jK8GV8

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks! 🙏 I appreciate the feedback and your updates.

[@FalynW]

So much wonderful info in this video! The chart indicates that it assumes a "tartine" recipe. Will this chart also be accurate for an Elaine Boddy recipe where she has the dough at 100% rise at 65F. If my dough and room temperature is 70F using one of her recipes, would it then be a 75% rise? Thank you for all your time put into these awesome videos!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Yes her recipe is similar. 70F would be 75% rise. I believe she recommend a 100% rise because she does not always do a cold retard. She bakes after a short countertop final proof.

[@gg8728]

Thank you! Love your videos! What percent rise are we looking for if the temp is below 65?

[@thesourdoughjourney]

If you go down to 55F, I’ve done 150%. Once you go over 100% there’s not a big difference in outcomes.

[@gg8728]

The other day I took my loaf out of the fridge to bake (it had been there two days) and noticed it rose a lot. It occurred to me to check the temp of my fridge and it was 51!! So it definitely went over double and still looked great

[@alannunez3527]

I always wondered why some recipes say 100% rise when my dough turns out severely over proofed if I go above 50%. This makes so much sense. Thank you! How does hydration affect target volume increase? I always thought the hydration level also affected the rise.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks. I don’t see a big difference between 70-80% hydration. 70% hydration will stand a little taller in the vessel with more of a dome. 80% sits a little flatter.

[@crazzzyyyfoooolll]

Makes sense. I am sure though there is the flour mix variable too. But I guess that then becomes developing your own effective chart based on the specific recipe you are following.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Yes, that is correct.

[@JCL1023]

Great video! Lots of information haven't found anywhere else. Quick question: Does the folds in between during bulk fermentation effect rise measurements?

[@thesourdoughjourney]

The folds can make the dough stand taller, but if you follow the same process every time, you can dial it in for what works best for your process. Rust is the “calibration” step at the end. For example, a 50% rise with no folds may be the same amount of fermentation as a 60% rise with folds. But if 60% rise with folds produces a good loaf for you, it will do it every time. That’s the idea of the method. It is a starting point to help you find the optimal rise for,your specific method. Then it is very repeatable.

[@JCL1023]

@thesourdoughjourney Thank you very much for the information. Looking forward to putting it to practice!

[@libbykalinowski5799]

Today I was in the midst of trying to figure out my 80 degree bulk fermentation timing for a couple of loaves. I am new to sourdough baking and have had some success with this baking ritual. However, I have been confounded by bulk fermentation timing. One expert says smell the dough, another says feel the dough, another see the dough (but each prefaces their recommendations on some fantastical knowledge one 31:20 should obtain after months if not years of exhaustive sniffing, staring at, and fearfully touching the object of our affection - fermenting dough. I have asked myself how one ever knows how to gain the knowledge without suffering through great misery. None of these experts have stated what you as well as I believe in - scientific research. Of course, as I awaited the right moment to pre-shape, I happened upon your wonderful explanation of the coup de grace, temperature and time. I smiled and instantly thought, “Of course, science does rule the world, even the sourdough world.”

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you.🙏

[@robertosarnataro]

Precious classroom! and last but not least the “chemical process” in the 27°C/80,6°F bulk fermentation are a bit different in the 18°C/64,4°F bulk fermentation

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Yes. Thank you.

[@madsnylarsen]

a ton of great tips and info, thank you, i will for sure bring them to my baking asap, my kitchen is 21c and it is impossible to count on any bulk-fermentation time guides out there :D... so thank you :)... ps. i got one small comment about the video, all the metaphors get a bit too much, by a bit i mean 33% of the video is basically metaphor trying to explain the point, a point i feel everyone already understood, this gives a feeling of being talked down to but it also breaks the flow, we want to hear more about the tips, what to lookg for etc. not baseball gloves and golf clubs, but even worse, by introducing that necessity to over explain something you start to give an impression that it's "too good to be truth" and doubt start to bobble up, i didn't doubt your temp to percentage rising chart, but after a ton of metaphors trying to nail it that down i started to doubt, you may call it an over-fermentation of the video ;). sorry if my comment is a bit harsh, i only mention it because i loved the core content and learned a lot from your video, so i wanted to give you my honest opinion, keep up the great work :D. and again sorry if the feedback is a bit harsh.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks. I appreciate the feedback. Different people have different learning styles. Some things resonate with people and others do not. So I tend to overdo it with different illustrations and explanations. It’s just my style. I also break up these videos into short segments that I put into the FAQs on my website. So they can feel long when watched end to end, but each chapter also stands alone so it can be used in isolation. It adds some redundancy and bulk to the end-to-end videos, but they get other uses also. It’s always a difficult trade off for me. And I admittedly err on the side of too much versus too little. KZbin makes it impossible to go back and add content to a published video. But you can subtract.

[@khabbaz-99nnn]

Hi thanks for your amazing video.I .the same what we face with many other fermented recipes .its because the heart or core of the dough is isolated by its edges or the outside edges so in cold room the yeast will activ in the core of the dough and inflate it while the yeast still inactive in the majority of the dough so it deceive us.and to make sure it becomes active all over the dough we need to let it rise more than in hot room.or punsh it down and let it rise again.and again 🤭 excuse my English talk.🌹🙏🌹

[@thesourdoughjourney]

yes, thank you.

[@jessicaeiss2541]

This should be posted and pinned in every sourdough group on FB! Tom, what about if the temp goes above 80degrees? I'm pretty sure I made the dough too warm with my heavy towels over the bowl and heating pad, even with additional towels under the bowl. Do I remember correctly that at 89 deg the gluten starts breaking down? mine was at 84 deg dough temp when I uncovered it . Thanks for another great video!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you! I’ve gone as high as 90F and it is pretty much a runaway train. I’ve made 2 videos at 90F and I I don’t recommend it! Anything over 80F, the “Bulk-o-Matic” method is best. It generally works at 90F with maybe a 20% rise at most.

[@jessicaeiss2541]

ok thanks... I've been consistently using the 30% rise lately, and seems to be working well.

[@gregmay9097]

Tom, yet another excellent video. Slightly off topic but when brewing beer it's important to monitor the fermenting wort rather than the temperature of the fermenting chamber because the fermentation process is exothermic, the same should be true of fermenting dough to some extent and may affect the timing depending on the mass of the dough being bulk fermented.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

That is correct. The dough is exothermic. I’ve seen it move 1-2 degrees F at the very end. It is not a huge move.

[@gregmay9097]

Did you do any pH measurements during these recent experiments and if so will you be publishing any documentation?

[@thesourdoughjourney]

I am still experimenting with pH meters. I hope to publish something in the future.

[@gregmay9097]

👍​@@thesourdoughjourney

[@ronaldconiglio9942]

Thanks.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

You're welcome

[@pattibuch]

Really appreciate your scientific approach to sourdough……fully agree that there is too much (well intentioned but wrong) misinformation out there on bulk fermentation… Perhaps I missed it in the video….but can you speak to the issue of “starting point”…there can be a significant amount-difference of/in time between the introduction of the starter and when the the dough goes into the bulk fermentation (measuring) vessel. I autolyse…others “fermentolyse”……..my stretch and folds are across 2-3 hours…others shorter/longer….these “pre-bulk fermentation measurement times can vary significantly (hours)….which might impact the “percentage” of rise that is targeted…how is this time taken into consideration…..again thank you for your great/informative videos….from another (well used to be)….”skinny little boy from Cleveland Ohio” Wolf

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you. Good questions. I discuss these details in the guide. The bottom line is, as long as you do it consistently for a given recipe it works. The rise isn’t an absolute measure that needs to be compared across bakers. If you measure your staring before adding salt, for example, it will give consistent results if you do it that way all the time. (And I’m not skinny anymore either). Here is the guide. thesourdoughjourney.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/The-The-SECRET-of-Bulk-Fermentation-Measuring-Dough-Temperature-and-Percentage-Rise.pdf

[@ThePhilbox]

Tom, your videos have really covered the full range of sourdough knowledge. I only have one lingering line of questioning. Why do we shape only after a certain percentage rise? Why not shape at the front end, or even prior to the rise and monitor the percentage rise in the basket. I'm wondering of the rise changes in some way after shaping, and if not, why not shape early to avoid deflating or other handling issues that get more difficult with increased rise? I hope that makes some kind of sense.... Just want to clarify, I know this moves away from the more precise measurement method you teach, that works. This would be after you are comfortable judging increase more intuitively based on familiarity with the processes you outline for judging % rise. Like at this point I know how big the loaf should generally look in the baneton after using the system and measurement methods you teach. is there any reason we don't shape earlier, other than wanting to judge rise in the vestle?

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Preshaping too early will open big gas bubbles in the crumb. You want most of the rise to be behind you before shaping. You can definitely eyeball the rise. Measuring the rise helps a lot of beginners.

[@tothpianopeter]

Incredibly useful information, thanks so much for doing all the research and experiments. I have been baking sourdough bread for years and have baked some really nice loaves but could never achieve consistency. When a bread came out really nice from the oven, I was never sure what I did right, and could not reproduce the same quality. Until now! I followed your recommendations and let the dough rise 50% at 24 degrees Celsius, which took 5 and a half hours. It came out perfectly. I think your chart really works! Now I am wondering: have you made a similar chart that deals with different dough sizes as well? It would be nice to know how to tweak the recipe if one wanted to make a larger loaf, using let's say 500 g of total flour. I would assume that the rise during bulk fermentation should be a little bit less because the larger dough mass will ferment longer in the fridge than a smaller piece of dough.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

There are very small differences with larger dough sizes. I’d start with the guidance from the chart, and calibrate up or down based on your results. Smaller loaves will cool slightly faster in the fridge. Warm dough sometimes ferments faster as it traps heat better. But these are very small differences.

[@tothpianopeter]

@@thesourdoughjourney Thanks so much for your response. I will do that. And again, thanks for the invaluable information in your video. For many of us it's life changing! :)

[@valerielarsen1459]

Thanks so much for this video! Question about fluctuations in dough temperature. My house has inconsistent HVAC (no central air or heating, just wall furnaces that are spotty). I use seedling mats to create a warm and consistent-ish environment for my starter and doughs. How do you adjust the target volume if you temperature rises or falls once you have transferred to your rise vessel? Thanks in advance!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Track the temperature as you go. If it starts moving, the ending temperature is most important for determining the percentage rise.

[@valerielarsen1459]

@@thesourdoughjourney thank you!! Just found your bulk-o-matic guide on your website. Super grateful for your free resources!!!

[@realsavard]

Great video, great information! Thank you Tom ! I know your speciality is sourdough but do you know if the same principle could be applied to yeasted bread (with different numbers I guess…). If the answer is yes, do you know where I can find this information ? Thanks again !

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Sorry, I’ve never tested it on non-sourdough.

[@JLZwissRN1950]

Thank you so much Tom..I do have a question regarding dough temp that continues to increase during bulk fermentation. Example starts out at 70 degrees but increases to 78 to 80 degrees…what do would you recommend as the target percent rise? It seems like it would be a moving target. Your videos and guides have been extremely informative and helped me get a better outcome with my bakes.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Always use the ending temperature. It doesn’t move that quickly and you should have time to see it coming. More details in the guide here. thesourdoughjourney.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/The-The-SECRET-of-Bulk-Fermentation-Measuring-Dough-Temperature-and-Percentage-Rise.pdf Thanks!

[@JLZwissRN1950]

@@thesourdoughjourney I am using Brod and Taylor proofing box..temp set at 72 degrees F..two hours later dough temp increased to 75 degrees F. I’ll keep checking it and adapt accordingly. I’ve downloaded your guide and will print it. Again thank you for the time, research and energy you have put into this…happy sourdough baking.

[@StavrosSophocleous]

Very well explained video. Thank you Tom. I am struggling with my bulk fermentation. I have followed the guidelines,marked my bowl to monitor my rise percentage and measured the temperature (23 C, room and dough). I Mixed 440gr bread flour and 60 gr whole wheat and hydration 70%. After 4 folds every 30 minutes (total time from mixing 2:30 hours )my dough is already overproofed and lost it's strength. Window pane was fine until the 3rd fold. Now after 2:30 it is weak and the dough became wet and sticky. starter 20% @ 100%. What am I doing wrong? Any help will be highly appreciated. Thanks.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Weak flour or acidic starter at the two possibilities. I’d use starter at or right before peak. Use less starter (10%). Keep dough temp below 70F/21C. Or try a different flour. Cool temps with less starter is more forgiving if you’re having overproofing problems.

[@StavrosSophocleous]

@@thesourdoughjourney thank you very much. I appreciate the quick reply and help. I will give it a try. Regards

[@emilypasion3869]

Why are you not a school teacher!!? The Santa example is when it clicked, and it cracked me up 😂 trying this this weekend!!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you! 🙏

[@jacobfiksel3600]

Such a helpful video! Have you done similar experiments, but with the second proof being done at the same temperature as the bulk fermentation, rather than the second proof being done in the fridge?

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Yes, but that is much more difficult to predict. The best method is to use the "poke test" to determine when to bake a room temperature, shaped loaf in final proofing. It is a reliable test. I cover that in the Companion Guide which you can download from the description of the video. Thanks!

[@malialik]

Thanks for sending me over here from your other video, this answered my question exactly! You're an indispensable resource to this community. I made an online calculator from your data that takes dough starting volume and temperature and gives you an exact ending volume and percent rise. Can't link it on my comment, I think KZbin doesn't like it but I'd love to share it with the world! Can I send it to you somehow?

[@thesourdoughjourney]

You can send to me at [e-mail] Please do not share elsewhere. It is copyrighted information.