The Shocking Story of Octomom's CORRUPT Fertility Doctor

If you were remotely aware of the news back in 2009, you heard of Nadya Suleman, aka the mom of the first known surviving set of octuplets, aka “The Octomom.” The media absolutely villainized her, but you know what? Let’s talk about the REAL villain of this story: her insane fertility doctor, Michael Kamrava. I haven’t been able to stop talking to my coworkers about this bonkers tale of medical malpractice since I learned about it, so now I’m doing it to you too.
Watch next:
Exploitation of Mega Multiples: • Exploitation of Mega M...
Famous Mega Multiples and the Medicine That Made Them: • Famous Mega Multiples ...
All About Twins: • Doctor Explains Twins:...
References:
Dr. Kamrava’s license revocation: www.documentcl...
CA Medical Board’s response to Kamrava’s request to reinstate license: www.documentcl...
Dr. Kamrava’s interview with ABC news: • Octomom Doc Defends Fe...
CBS: www.cbsnews.co...
NYT “Octomom Proved us All Wrong” www.nytimes.co...
Terrible Media Comments:
Young Turks “Nasty & Disgusting:” • Octo-Mom's Pregnant St...
Death Threats “Leave Cali or you will die:” • OCTOMOM DEATH THREATS:...
Nadya’s side of the story:
Video Interviews with Nadya Ann Curry 2009: • Nadya Suleman, Mother ...
Doctor Drew Interview: • DR. DREW & OCTO-MOM Na...
Nadya on The Doctors: • The Untold Story of “O...
Inside Edition 2017 Update: • Octomom: I Had To Kill...
NYT “Octomom Proved us All Wrong” www.nytimes.co...
Become a channel Membryo to connect & access perks!
/ @mamadoctorjones
MDJ Secret Second Channel: / @mdjclips
I stream on Twitch weekly (usually Sundays): / mamadoctorjones -
Playlist of full-length Twitch streams for channel membryos: • Full-Length Live Streams
FOLLOW ME ON SOCIAL:
Instagram: / mamadoctorjones
Twitter: / mamadoctorjones
TikTok: / mamadoctorjones
** The information in this video is intended to serve as educational information and is not intended or implied to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. All content, including text, graphics, images, and information, contained in this video is for general information purposes only and does not replace a consultation with your own doctor/advanced practice provider. **
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[@Lifeafter40]

I have a friend who lives near the family. She always says that Nadia is incredibly organized and her kids are very well kept. So sad she was portrayed so badly

[@lylukk]

i can imagine when you've got an army of kids you'd need to be well organised😅 but good on her for proving everyone wrong

[@TwylaGill]

How was she able to provide for them all? I had difficulty with just 3.

[@cassius5692]

​@TwylaGill if you mean financially I'd imagine she made quite a lot from her media appearances. Emotionally and energetically though, I have no clue lol that sounds like a nightmare to me but maybe it's easier for someone that likes being around kids.

[@gracieloufreebush4899]

@@TwylaGill she lived off shows/ tv appearances and apparently was also in the porn bussines (according to google) but has declared bankruptcy many times, has been on welfare and the house she had was taken by the bank

[@gunnargislason5221]

​@@TwylaGillI remember seeing the Dr. Phil special on her and from what I remember, Nadia's mother went out of retirement and back to work to help provide for the kids. It was also mentioned that she received a lot in donations, like diapers and formula. Of course I don't know how much of that is true. There might be kernels of truth in there but of course this type of media is going to blow everything out of proportion. Personally, I think that having that many children is hard to justify, but this video adds so much context to the situation! Nadia wanted one more kid, not eight. So I think it's very unfair to judge her so harshly for the mistakes her doctor made.

[@joshuaokoro-sokoh2993]

I would have to say, it is pretty hypocritical of society to demonize a woman for having many children, while also demonizing childless women. It's like you just cant win with these people.

[@misanonymous]

It is ridiculous. Women "need" a husband for anything to be ok. If she had a super religious spouse people wouldn't be complaining

[@TrueEnergizerBunnies]

People were demonizing her for a good reason. She was a single mom and no job, no home, and she already had 6 other kids. Not to mention I have no idea how she was paying for all these IVF cycles. Why was she going and having another one when she had no way to support the 6 she already had? Let alone having 8 more kids. Part of the reason I think she was ever able to make it to where she is now is because of the octuplets. She got a ton of donations and job offers and help that she wouldnt have had had she not been in the news. It would have been more responsible to just not have more kids at all or until she could support the ones she already had, but she got really lucky here. There's tons and tons of other women who have 5, 6, 7, 10, 14 kids and they dont get famous, dont get jobs, and they and the kids end up living in poverty on welfare or the mom pawns off the kids on other people or they end up in foster care which could be avoided if we were responsible and didnt have kids we couldnt afford.

[@lastpolarbearcub]

She was caught for defrauding welfare. People were upset that she was continuously doing IVF while living off taxpayer money.

[@lee3171]

I bristle at the idea that "society" is demonizing anyone. If recent history has proven anything it is that we are a society with wildly divergent views on things. Some people have opinions about childlessness, some people have opinions about huge families. None of these people represent society, just themselves.

[@Seek1878]

You shouldn't have kids you can't afford.

[@0rangemuffin]

Poor Nadia. She was clearly taken advantage of and the media acted like it was all her fault and that she was a terrible mom. I hope things have gotten easier for her.

[@NoelleTakestheSky]

She was taking advantage of others too, and putting herself out there.

[@ResidentMilf]

Let's not pretend she has zero culpability here.

[@Seek1878]

Nah she was criticized for good reason. She was a single mom and no job, no home, and she already had 6 other kids. Hr parents had to com out of retirement to help fund her brood. Not to mention how she was paying for all these IVF cycles. Why was she going and having another one when she had no way to support the 6 she already had? Lots of other women who have 8 or more kids dont get famous, dont get jobs, and they and the kids end up living in poverty on welfare becaus they don't get donations from gullibl strangers.

[@dynogamergurl]

@@Seek1878or they get their own show briefly on tlc like -John&-Kate +8

[@personincognito3989]

​@@NoelleTakestheSkyExplain please

[@rustynails8756]

Omg I knew she had children previous to the octoplets. Never knew how close the pregnancies were to each other. It must be a mircle she was able to complete all of her pregnancies. I can only imagine the stress her body went through.

[@SalviAlmighty]

The fact that he keeps trying to push the blame on Nadya saying "Well she insisted" "She wanted to do this and that". Ok. IS SHE THE DOCTOR?! Any medical professional with an ounce of integrity would refuse patients "demands" if they deem it unsafe or against guidelines. I can tell my doc I want to get my kneecaps removed because I don't like them. They don't have to agree to it. Just proves he wanted more money out of her. I do find it extremely irresponsible already to keep agreeing to start IVF again 2-3 months after she gave birth, but WOW.

[@actual_doge3221]

Like the Doctors who keep doing surgery on Ollie London 😱

[@IttyBitty412]

I insist I be prescribed oxycontin!!!!!! 😂

[@ripcactusify]

doctors refuse to give people sterilization daily

[@fhealykc]

"Nudge" is the word my ex used to use to describe how he'd shove me to the floor. I've heard other abusers use that word as well. Its very telling that this Dr used it to minimize his actions just like abusers do.

[@mx.menacing]

This

[@redwoodrebelgirl3010]

I'm so sorry that you were subjected to domestic abuse. You did not deserve that horror. I wish you safety, freedom, comfort, healing, strength, support, Light, Hope, peace, & _JUSTICE._ And-- _if you want it_ --a wonderful, devoted partner, who treats you with complete respect, honor, compassion, kindness, care, gentleness, friendship, romance, integrity, & decency, (& to whom you give the same, of course) who Loves you, utterly & completely, & whom you Love, utterly & completely, & with whom you have a wonderful, healthy, growing relationship, & a very happy ever after.💗 God bless. ❤️.

[@backintimealwyn5736]

government uses it too , when refering to propaganda.

[@PsychoGamer44]

Well said 👏🏻 same.

[@biCARRIEous]

I grew up in rural midwest, and all I heard at that time at like 12 was "what a leech on the system" she was. "She only had all those kids for government paychecks every month for life and 15 minutes of fame." I also knew of and still know of families with like 10 kids or more who were super religious, and nobody bats an eye. It's so sad. All props to her for caring for so many AND handling the slander because I could never.

[@NoelleTakestheSky]

People absolutely bat eyes about those fundy families with scads of kids.

[@yumikumi2]

That sounds racist as hell! You have a problem with Hispanic women having children?! The doctor is at fault here, if she was YT, you would say she’s a victim, but typical bigoted YT people spewing nonsense cause they don’t want the Latinos to “take their Jobs!” Go to Florida if you don’t want to live in the real world!

[@lee3171]

If you have a mother and a father and the means to provide for your giant religious brood then have at it. This is a single woman raising 14 kids on welfare and she paid for the fertility treatments using student loans. Yes I judge

[@PimpessRockstar]

​@@lee3171If she was raising them on welfare, how did she afford the medical bills?

[@margaretdevery6547]

Hello, from New Zealand. I'm one of 9 children. Our parents were utterly devoted & in love with each other from the moment they clapped orbs on each other, until the moment our dad closed his eyes at 92 years old. They worked hard, were strict Catholics, & never, ever took a bean from anyone else. I'm so proud of their love story, & although none of us have had huge families, I'd not have had it any other way. Please try to be kind to others, as you have no idea how incredible some people are, even though their choices aren't for you

[@o0BlackSand0o]

I remember when Octomum had her babies. We watched the stuff about her and I asked my dad why they transferred 6, not 1. My dad explained how the pregnancy rarely takes so they transfer a few extra. Because of his explanation I was really confused by how people treated her. I'm glad I was educated on the topic by my dad who is very logical. He figured she was just unlucky/lucky by having it take so well and that isn't on her.

[@Palitato]

She was also unlucky in the timing, cause this was around when Jon & Kate + 8 was on TV, so people thought she was doing it to try and get her own tv show/series.

[@memyselfandmeeples6077]

I had a similar thought as your dad when I head about her as well. I couldn't understand why people were judging her so hard.

[@linnhaslinger532]

Yes how was people so dumb

[@ThatMichelleGirl1]

IVF preggo here, it's also possible to transfer a single embryo and get multiples (mine split into twins)! About 1 in 50 embryos will split into two or more.

[@MadMage1993]

Dude my cousin had her IVF and came out with twins where were from two eggs. The story is that her husband has a genetic condition he didn't want to pass down, given his fantastic job he was able to afford the science to help make sure that wouldn't happen. My cousin was 100% on board if that is what it took for them both to have happy and healthy kids. After the process, and they impregnated her she sadly had miscarriage and a few more after that. She miscarried all her eggs. They were down to only two and this was to be their last shot at having kids because this had been torment for them both. The doctor decided to try something and put BOTH in her WITH their permission. They went to get the ultrasound and they found her body took one of the eggs for sure and they carried on. Eventually they went to another appointment and that is when they found out they were having two not just the one. Her body had taken both of her last eggs and she managed to carry them both all the way through. It has been a few years since their birth but they are both happy and intelligent children with a hunger for life. My cousin and her husband are still together and loving their lives as parents after they fought so hard for it. IVF is amazing.

[@SkySilver777]

Last I was aware Nadia would not name her sperm donor but said that she knows who he is. I’m almost wondering… Is the doctor the sperm donor?? There was another case of a fertility doctor using his own sperm to impregnate his clients. It would explain why he seemed so driven to implant more and more embryos inside of her and freeze them without her knowledge.

[@IttyBitty412]

Wait, why would it being his sperm make him so driven to implant more and freeze them?

[@kathyharris1627]

The whole situation is so messed up. I can't understand how a person who is unemployed and single can possibly afford multiple rounds of IVF. Most people can afford one or two rounds at most. It seems to me the doctor treated Nadia as a science experiment which is sickening.

[@kelliec32]

That was my thought. Where was all her money coming from?!

[@pompe221]

I'd say it was worse than treating her like a science experiment, because in a science experiment you're at least trying to learn something. He was treating her like a cash cow. He was getting payments from every stim cycle, every oocyte retrieval procedure, and frozen embryo storage. (Which is probably why he had her do so many new stim cycles instead of trying to use the already-frozen embryos.) But that does bring up the question of where Nadya was getting all that money from.

[@jathompson37]

Some people are born with trust funds. I don’t know her situation but that’s not unheard of.

[@sholem_bond]

​@@jathompson37 she had a legal settlement due to back injury, apparently.

[@agapeeternal]

I wonder if he gave her “discounted” rates so she’d be able to see him more regularly

[@lauraelliott6909]

Given Nadia's extreme aversion to the destruction of embryos, it's absolutely criminal to ignore the frozen embryos for fresh ones. She was 100% a cash cow for him. Also, did he ever mention embryo donation? There are plenty of people struggling with infertility who would love to give the little snowflake embryos a loving home. There's absolutely no reason Nadia needs to have all of them transferred to her uterus to give them lives. That's the same concept as stuffing yourself with extra food because you don't want it to go to waste, essentially becoming a human garbage disposal (or a human incubator in Nadia's case).

[@wmdkitty]

So "loving" that they won't adopt living children. Screw 'em.

[@lalywindland5764]

@@wmdkitty Snowflake adoption is cheaper than the regular adoption and some want to have the experience of giving birth and breastfeeding a baby even if that baby is not genetically theirs.

[@hay6930]

@@wmdkittyyou know how corrupt the adoption industry is right? that type of adoption will have a lot of unethical practices

[@rachelhansen2417]

I have extended family members who were adopted embryos! The true adoption (and foster) system is an absolute mess. I’m glad that embryo adoption helps people become parents!

[@TheLisclark]

​@mdlazova You watched the same video? Talking about her first cycle being at 19 and it being up to dozen stim cycles by her late 20s? That the high embryo retrieval rate meant peri-menopause wasn't a feasible diagnosis? The doctor performing these fertility treatments was highly unethical and performing retrieval at way too close an interval to each other let alone birth? OK. Just checking, same video?

[@patti6194]

"I really hate sleeping, let's do this again." She just cracks me up, but she sure does get down to the bottom line!

[@Al-go3tc]

In 2004 my mom did IVF with for my twin sister and I. The doctor said my parents should put all six eggs in but my mom said no bc she didn't want to risk having six children. She settled on two and we both made it. I can't I imagine if she actually put in all six

[@Essentialoils4ujess-weagle]

I remember seeing a news conference where her parents BEGGED the doctor to stop getting her pregnant!

[@IttyBitty412]

Your comment sounds like the doctors was... GETTING HER PREGNANT.... 😂😂😂😂

[@asmrtpop2676]

@@IttyBitty412There have been many cases where the sperm used for IVF….. was from the providing doctor :(

[@nininoona]

As we went through the timeline, I kept thinking how in the heck did her body handle all this? My last two kids were back to back, literally born 11 months apart, and now...nearly 18 years later I am still having health problems because of it. Back, hips, knees, sciatica, and more...just because i had two kids so close together. She is barely going to be able to move when shes my age.

[@taralohman6492]

The info going around at the time of their birth is that she was on disability for a work related injury. So she was not in great shape for pregnancies regardless.

[@emmaphillips3847]

This!! Her poor body. Would be interesting to see how her body is fairing now... Three babies destroyed me 😅

[@looloo2394]

Thought the same! I’m on my third pregnancy (a surprise) in 4 years. My body is struggling SO MUCH this time, I can’t imagine having so many babies let alone so close!

[@corablah9809]

She had abdominal reconstruction and lots of plastic surgery, so that's why!

[@tillonsara892]

Not only the pregancies. The IVF cycle is also very hard. I've had three for egg cell donation, and after those three I've had enough. I can't fathom doing 11 (or was it 12?)

[@mags8212]

“Hey I hate sleeping, let’s do this again” exactly my feelings MDJ 😂😂

[@TakenTook]

As an IVF mom, I was paying very close attention to this story when it first hit the news back in the day. But until today I had no idea she had so many FRESH cycles! I just assumed she had a whole bunch of leftover frozen embryos that she felt obligated to transfer with multiple pregnancies, and the ridiculous numbers transferred each time were only because of the previous failed cycles.

[@ninetanyas]

she was most def hyperstimulated. that should have been an immediate red flag to her provider. she would have had a lot of frozens. she was def taken advantage of.

[@TakenTook]

@@ninetanyas -- Even spontaneously-conceived singleton pregnancies can become dangerous situations, and it is already a miracle that most moms and babies get through the entire process with minimal to no complications. But include the additional risks of IVF, and it is beyond shocking that he practiced this way for so long.

[@giftofthewild6665]

Its crazy how many embryos she was getting.

[@Sam_on_YouTube]

We did IUI in 2011, a few years after that. When we looked at IVF, the standard of care was switching from double embryo to single embryo. If you couldn't afford multiple rounds, double embryo was still recommended. More than 2 was not generally done, according to our doctor, by 2011, a few years after this story.

[@toxicginger9936]

It's still the current standard of Care. Transfer ONE embryo. Maybe two, depending on the patient's history.

[@Sam_on_YouTube]

@@toxicginger9936 I mean obviously the standard of care has not increased since then. Nor is it going to go below 1. My point was that was the time 1 embryo was becoming the standard.

[@carolehirsch7315]

I hope you were able to have the family you wanted, regardless of how it happened medically. Have gone through a similar journey and I know it can be hard. You're brave for using your own story to help people to understand this better.💜

[@hannahk1306]

I think this case was a turning point in guidelines, the success of IVF is also higher than it was in the early days (the justification for lots of transfers was that only one or two would take).

[@Sam_on_YouTube]

@@hannahk1306 Yeah, when I looked at it, the odds of 1 taking were getting better, but still not fantastic. The odds of twinning were half the odds of success... which was true for every intervention. Which led me to conclude that the odds of twins is 50%. My doctor had always looked at the odds of twins and the odds of success independently. And I don't know if those odds always lined up that way, do maybe it was only at that time. But she acknowledged that yes, if you have a successful pregnancy, the odds are 50/50 it'll be twins. Now that they typically implant only 1, that is certainly no longer true with IVF. We used IUI though... and we have twins.

[@sarahv8176]

This makes me so uneasy. She was clearly mislead about the process. With such high stakes (parenting is hard even with two kids!!) I can't believe someone would be so reckless.

[@ecokrazy]

Since he lost his license shouldn't we refrain from calling him Doctor and instead call him Mr. Kamrava?

[@amysbees6686]

Or "Former Doctor"?

[@lastpolarbearcub]

When a single mom has 6 babies in 5 years, and then 8 infants, how does she even take them to school without leaving other children at home? Does she drive a bus?

[@matteusconnollius1203]

Did your children's school not of a bus service? Most public schools have a bus system parents dont have to drive their kids

[@JasmineAnahera]

@@matteusconnollius1203ok then, how does she take them to sports practice? Birthday parties? Shopping? Literally anywhere. I know a lot of “bigger” families would split their kids across two cars, but if she is a single mom then that’s not an option

[@JuMiKu]

​​@@JasmineAnaheraDoes your city have nothing in walking distance? Public transport? Serious question. I have heard that American citied are often planned atrociously, so you need to have a car.

[@JasmineAnahera]

@@JuMiKu I don’t live in America.

[@asmrtpop2676]

@@JuMiKuUh american cities/towns are not walkable and most do not have public transport.

[@kimberbell4238]

I was on mega hormones and the most eggs I ever made was 3. None to freeze. 3 years fertility treatments. One pregnancy resulting in twins!💓

[@ianmininger]

Dr. Jones needs to start a reproductive-medicine-centered true crime podcast. Her presentation style is great ☺

[@madelynmatulis4493]

Yes! Similar to Bailey Sarian where she also talks about historical events. This would be great for educating people on this type of history, most don’t know much of anything

[@memyselfandmeeples6077]

I agree with both of you!! That would be amazing!!

[@nicky740]

14:30 “You know what? I reallly hate sleeping. I think we should do this again.” 😂😂😂

[@luwildy]

Id watch that

[@lwolfstar7618]

Mama doctor Jones is medical mr Ballen lol

[@victoriousvalentine9779]

How can a parent especially single, be emotionally available to that many kids. There were times when I didn't think I was there enough for only 3 kids

[@maddiejoy6619]

I have no idea where all this money must have been coming from. Someone I know is going through IVF due to infertility and they are paying around $30k for one full round (everything from preemptive tests to egg retrieval to embryo transfer). Now they have some embryos frozen so they will hopefully never have to do another full retrieval, but that's so much money.

[@mandaskillz]

I literally just got a job at Amazon a few days ago just to cover more IVF for me. Sadly, I have no living children and just really want a family. I’ve already done 2 IVF cycles, two failed transfers, and 3 IUI out of pocket. Tell your friend about Amazon or Starbucks - they have fertility coverage.

[@maddiejoy6619]

@@mandaskillz she's actually considered getting a job at Starbucks for that reason! I'm so sorry you're going through this ❤️.

[@Seevawonderloaf]

You mentioned a miscarriage. I wonder if she was very traumatised by that. That would explain the endless pregnancies and the desire not to destroy embryos

[@rayleenerwin1703]

First, I LOVE your videos! They are so friendly and informative. I am curious to know why a female can go through great lengths to have a bunch of children in succession without psychological evaluation and why a female who doesn't want children and requests a tubal is required to be evaluated by a psychologist. Please share if you have the info. I am baffled.

[@christinamccarthy6524]

I think “Octomom” either had a breeder kink or loved the attention she got from being pregnant. Going into those pregnancies back to back like that is insane all by itself. She barely had time to care for and bond with the infants she already birthed!

[@alissonvonderlane862]

8:41 Doing that with dogs is called a puppy mill and considered animal abuse! The human does consent... but still medical malpractice!

[@catinabox3048]

Oh wow! As an IVF patient myself (one retrieval, three transfers, two pregnancies, zero births), I can't imagine a clinic being like this. My doctor sometimes transfers up to 5 embryos, but only day 3 embryos in 40+ patients with a history of not being able to make blast in the lab. If any embryos are blastocysts or if you're under 40, he wouldn't even transfer two. Also, as far as I know, nowadays multiple pregnancies are counted as complications and doesn't help their reputation in the least bit.

[@yup_im_tiff]

Good luck on your pregnancy journey. You should be able to put in how many you want…. Not 12‼️ 12 is too many 😂

[@Reesispiecis]

How did she afford all this before all the donations started coming in? I think I remember her needing help to afford them, but I didn’t realize she had soooooooo much fertility treatments. I thought she had a few kids and then an ooopsy! With IVF

[@pandalorehub]

How in the world did she pay for all these, like I knew a lady working at a very large software company whose entire salary would go towards IVF and they lived off her wife's salary. And then there's all these pregnancies and babies. IVF is money, storage is money, rent, childcare, etc, etc.

[@jennycaldwell1]

I do think another aspect that was troubling was that she was struggling financially, but still chose to expand her family beyond the six kids she already was having trouble supporting. Once she added 8 more children, she needed public assistance to survive, both from donations and from the taxpayers. It’s awesome to want a big family and anyone who wants one is certainly entitled to have one. To ask others, including taxpayers, to financially support that choice right from the start because you’re unable to seems less than a responsible choice.

[@jenniferpajor5365]

How was she able to afford all of this? I went through one stim cycle and two frozen transfers that cost tens of thousands of dollars.

[@blugreen123]

That's my question too. Especially since it doesn't appear that she had a partner throughout most of this.

[@maam-yj8ph]

That's my question also.

[@Wendyroo6817]

From USA Today: “Suleman worked for a state mental hospital in 1999 when she said she suffered a back injury during an inmate riot. She went on to collect more than $165,000 in disability payments and used some of the money to help pay for in-vitro fertilization treatments that produced her first six children.”

[@saraquill]

@@Wendyroo6817All those pregnancies could not have been kind to her back.

[@SeekingTheLoveThatGodMeans7648]

@@Wendyroo6817 Well I guess that could do part of it, but were there more disability payments to come after this? Did she inherit something?

[@jessgunn6639]

he told her they froze 29 i wouldn1t be remotely surprised if a few of them were sold out the back door!

[@xydoit2024]

They call her crazy because she said "i want more kids. I will do that again. I want 10 this time" She was so hyped from the attention.

[@Georgia7Pap]

It really boggles my mind when I think about this woman. She already had 6 children one of them with special needs. She was single and for some reason she thought another pregnancy was the right thing to do.

[@vintereventyr_]

I would imagine it came from infertility trauma. The wish to get as many “sucesses” as possible due to this trauma.

[@nukamolly]

@@vintereventyr_that’s such a good point! i can sort of understand that- after going through a miscarriage recently, my way of coping is to try to get pregnant again as soon as possible. desperate and hopeless feelings can make us do silly things i guess

[@26syntax]

Is it possible that they were selling the frozen embryos to pay for the treatment or the doctor was selling them without Nadia's permission just to get more money? I have no idea if this is even feasible and I know it sounds wild, but that's the only thing I could think of to explain what happened to the very large number of embryos that weren't implanted. This story is heartbreaking and I can only hope they are all doing ok.

[@kuroe-chan5190]

Great point because I’m still trying to figure that out. All the frozen embryos, they had to do some thing with them .

[@EmblaWanderer]

Yup, thought the same. Why would you go through the hassel AND the financial expenses of keeping that many embryos? When the doctor is a money leech, it seems possible.

[@mlaidukaitis]

She couldn't have been, since it's illegal to "sell" embryos as the embryo's owner. You can certainly ask that you be compensated in all or part for the storage fees or necessary travel expenses you've paid in relation to the transfer of ownership, but not for the embryo itself. You can legally only "donate" the embryos. But clinics that offer embryo adoption are allowed to charge fees to people wanting to adopt in order to cover their legal fees, workers' time, storage costs, etc. They can even require that you have a home evaluation if they choose, to make sure the adopting family is fit, but that's usually a third party expense. This is based on my extensive research as both someone who once wanted to do embryo adoption and now as someone who has several embryos and has considered donating the extras (if any are left after I complete my family).

[@beekind5704]

⁠@@mlaidukaitisTheoretically if he was selling the frozen embryos it wouldn’t have been a legal sale, it would have been under the table and the successful pregnancies she had would be excellent marketing. The buyers would not know that there were multiple implantations, they would only be presented with evidence of successful pregnancies.

[@GneissShorts]

2:46 I wish I could ask my mom just how far IVF has come since she tried in the late 80’s to have children with my dad that way. I just know she had 3 miscarriages and ended up adopting my older brother and me so I kind of hate to say it (mom would definitely understand) but I’m glad it didn’t work, otherwise I wouldn’t have had the most amazing mom ever. Now I’m crying in my car as I’m typing this, I miss her so much! I know my dad probably won’t remember everything, but maybe my mom’s best friend remembers some bits.

[@akitoyaname7897]

The fact that you were so enraged you tapped your head(an equivilant to flipping the bird) when you usually are so calm and sweet really shows how absurd and insane this situation is. Love your content❤

[@nikkikidd8428]

Living in Canada and working with a ob/gyne/fertility doctor I have to say that my perspective has always been that her doctor had some sort of alterior motives that Nadia wasn't aware of. I may be wrong but I think we have laws in Canada preventing doctors from transplanting more than 4 embryos at a time. So when this story broke one of the first things talked about in our office was whether or not this doctor was going to lose his license and if he was going to jail lol. We were in complete shock and honestly prayed that he had transplanted 4 embryos that had resulted in 4 sets of twins. But another thought that came later was that Nadia may have been the perfect guinea pig for this wannabe pioneer to come out with new practices that would make him famous due to her desire and willingness to be pregnant and have a large family. And as for his practice of doing fresh retrievals instead of making use of the frozen embryos could be due to the cost. I am pretty sure that it's more expensive to do fresh retrievals then the implantation of frozen embryos.

[@michelleh4717]

4? i had to sign with my clinic that it's against doctor recommendation to transfer 2 and that i was aware of the risks. and that's default wording in documents, i only transfered the one

[@leftalone9881]

Even if she “insisted” on transferring 12, she’s a patient not a medical professional, and she might be thinking “well, if 8 embryos didn’t result in a pregnancy, maybe we’ll just do the 12 and it’ll work ok, I might even get twins” which tbh is something I might have assumed if I’ve done this over and over with only 1 baby every time (except the twins) and sometimes no babies.

[@jolie7neige]

I had the same thought. Having mentioned she realky wanted twins, I have to believe she did indeed authorize the 12 transfer, based on how the 5 and 6 transfers resulted in 1. Both parties are guilty on various levels IMO. I don't think she's a saint, nor he the devil. I think he was driven by $$$ and she by obsession with babies. Bad combo.

[@madhatterline]

@@jolie7neige he exploited and took advantage of her. As the doctor he was the one with duty of care. Yet when she came to him saying she had a $165,000 settlement from suffering a back injury at her job, and that she wanted a large family, it seems he had dollar signs in his eyes, and was going to cash in.

[@ninetanyas]

my inf doctor highly advised against twins. i was also not wanting twins. it is very risky. she was taken advantage of. her doc DID know better.... but chose to continue with his experiment to the insane detriment of a woman and ALL her kids. i also vilified her. for years. until a few years ago.

[@dynogamergurl]

It’s a reasonable assumption I would come to as well if 8 only result in 1. I still have to wonder if something different was done that last time to any of the others or if it really was luck of the draw.

[@robertabarnhart6240]

I really think that doctor did not know what the heck he was doing.

[@alyssarh]

He absolutely influenced her and mislead her into making those decisions to do those cycles. If he told her once that she was "premenopausal" then who knows what else he might've told her to make her feel like she needed to do all those stim cycles and transfers

[@evenstar04]

And she was well aware that she could reduce her fetuses... it was a better option.

[@vnatik]

Thanks a lot for covering it. The story is outrageous and you are awesome!

[@Animezingly]

Only half way through and god this is so concerning .... I feel like this isn't just "I want a big family" mostly because of the lacks of breaks...... Poor thing

[@nicolek5747]

Octomom! That's not a name I've heard in a while! Such an interesting topic! Thanks for posting. That doctor was scary.

[@emilycox3865]

Please please PLEASE do a video about hyperemesis gravidarum. I had it all 3 pregnancies. And with my last had multiple hospitalizations and a feeding tube and home health with home IVs. I hate it when people say it’s all in your head and minimize this! It was a REAL thing for me and without modern medicine I would have literally died, along with my babies.

[@dietotaku]

i have NEVER been this early to an MDJ video! in case you *do* want to talk about moms being vilified and having their mental health weaponized against them, maybe you could do a video on andrea yates and postpartum psychosis? the lack of care she received and the tragic consequences of that, and how she became the bad guy when she was a victim just like her kids, always weighs on me.

[@MamaDoctorJones]

We have had a 13 page outline about her story done for 2 years and it’s so heavy I haven’t been able to tackle it, but we def will.

[@j.n.sloane]

Holy smokes! That's a horrific story! Rusty was so arrogant and the children and Andrea paid the price.

[@Elizabeth-l9y8j]

​@MamaDoctorJones as a mom who dropped her kids off and said I can not take care of them, her story needs telling. There's no way to describe that desperation.

[@theoriginalnik]

Seconding this, the story of Andrea and her children is so heartbreaking and it was twisted like crazy by the media. Even to this day most people don’t understand what really happened.

[@dirtbagdeacon]

Rusty Yates is an evil man. I remember when it happened. My whole family and I were furious....at him. He was told that she needed help, not more kids, and he continued to make her life hell.

[@araidias7442]

any time MDJ posts it makes my day

[@alyssarh]

It would be amazing to see you do an interview with her if she'd be open to it. I feel like you both together could shed a lot of positive light on her story (you already did a wonderful job of that in this episode, but i would love for her to hear this love and validation)

[@Kiterpuss]

I hope you do a video on Mama Uganda. She's a lovely woman who was born and with a condition that results in her having multiples (either she had a ton of eggs or she just ovulates multiple at a time every time, I forget.) But she had an incredibly hard life and was told she would die if she didn't have a lot of kids to get rid of her extra eggs. So now she's had 40+.

[@deborahrowan9034]

I heard a rumor that her OB’s thought there were only 7, and the only found the 8th at delivery, when they asked the resident to scoop the placentas and the resident said, “Uh, there’s another baby in here,” and the attendings were like, “Nice joke, resident” and she was like, “I AM NOT KIDDING.”

[@sharonthompson672]

Where'd she get all the dough to PAY for it???!!! 😳 I never HAD babies and my uterus hurts just hearing this. 🤦

[@madhatterline]

something about a $165,000 settlement she got from suffering a back injury at her job at around age 21. decided to use it to become a mom. she was already divorced.

[@janets7291]

I remember my father in law (a GP) saying this doctor should lose his license. I was happy to tell him he did.

[@writerlilies]

I understand not doing a hysterectomy at 16, but my periods had been complete hell since they started at 11. No one would listen to me when I said I didn’t want children. At 18. When I could make that decision. My mind never changed. No one listened until I was 37. Had a failed ablation. The doctors finally agreed to a partial hysterectomy when I was 38. Did I really need to wait 20 years?

[@jaspernemeth3045]

I grew up with a group of kids born like this. One was severely disabled, a few had other physical issues and only one was “normal” and one passed away at birth. There are risks and this is not okay.

[@blugreen123]

The thing that strikes me as interesting right off the bat is that she was so young and had no partner when she started this expensive, invasive process. It seems like that would give the average OBGYN pause. 🤔

[@caliwagg1898]

It probably made it so much easier to get her to agree to all that.

[@tianamarie989]

What does having a partner have to do with her decision? I thought it was all "screw what my partner wants, do what I want" attitude? When dod this change?

[@mirandalarsen3111]

Dear Mama Dr. Jones, could you please speak more about the ASRM? Granted Ms. Suleman is an extreme case, but could you please speak to the few/close to nil laws and regulations regarding sperm donor donations, and how donor conceived persons have no rights to the medical histories of their bio dads or moms?

[@emmadawson1158]

How did she afford all of those cycles? I can’t imagine! Most couples are struggling to afford one. IVF is so expensive and not covered by insurance.

[@helloMerrMerr]

Bro low key high key treated her like a science experiment

[@tiffanyverbeck7041]

Wait isn't IVF really expensive and she was a teen when she started this? Why and where did the money come from and how do you provide for 14 kids at once and who is helping this lady with 8 newborns just the heck!? I get wanting to be a mom but with 14 kids how do you properly parent without emotionally neglecting at least some of them.

[@m.macdog5113]

Saw an update on Octo mum . She had it together , kids very polite and very well loved after

[@blackghostart308]

Interviewer: did he defend himself in a compelling way? Dr dude(don't know who it is): *no hesitation* No, never.

[@carolbydesign]

How did she afford all those procedures? She was young and definitely didn't have time to work between all the procedures and having a child pretty much every year...

[@tianamarie989]

Google it

[@madhatterline]

something about a $165,000 settlement she got from suffering a back injury at her job. so at age 21 she decided to use it to become a mom. she was already divorced.

[@heavenonthehorizon777]

Hello, nice to meet you, I'm new around here. I've enjoyed about 4 of your videos in the last 2 days. This one is shocking, I'm a registered nurse 27 years. Wow, just wow, i'd like to know. Where is the man that's involved in all these babies? If they're even is one, and how does she afford all of this? And is my curiosity a little too pushy? And trying to get in her business. I'm not sure, but those are my 2 big questions. Thank you for your videos. They've been quite entertaining and educational.

[@brooklynburgher5041]

I remember people being scared of ivf for a while after this case because they were scared of ending up with so many kids

[@kkinner2762]

It's really sad that people think that because you actually like your kids and want more you are crazy. I have had HEG all 3 of my pregnancies and when I got IV for my last, the nurse asked why I would ever consider getting pregnant again. When I said because I like my kids she was so taken a back. To her credit she said "that is a really good answer."

[@elainelouve]

It's so weird, either you have too many or too few. I'm childfree by choice, and fully support people being able to decide on how many kids they want. But there's so much judgement unless you do what is "standard". I know a woman who has 6 kids just because she likes kids and doesn't feel they're a burden. But someone like my mom is convinced that if you want a large family you're an oppressed fundamentalist. (The woman in question is a liberal atheist who isn't even married with her spouse.)

[@KimJongUnnie]

Just because you like your kids doesn’t mean you need to have more when your body is fighting against you all the way. Of course people would question your choices.

[@kkinner2762]

@@KimJongUnnie the best things in life are worth making sacrifices for.

[@EclecticallyEccentric]

​@@kkinner2762Debatable if you are sacrificing more than just you. Having more kids because you love children and raising them isn't worth sacrificing the well-being of the children you already have. That can and does happen.

[@juliav.mcclelland2415]

Isn't hyperstimulation what happened to April in an episode of Chicago Med? I assume he kept doing fresh cycles because he made more money charging for those rather than just using frozen embryos.

[@claraestrada5080]

it is wonky to assume that if someone wants to have a lot of children they need mental health care. it is not wonky to refer them to mental health care if they are insisting on a new pregnancy not even 6 months after the latest one, several times in a row.

[@rebeccazeman9309]

Idk how she even afforded the IVF cycles. I barely paid for 1 cycle and it damn near financially ruined me. Not to mention the actual stress from stims. Yikes. And how does she even do all this with so many babies to care for?

[@WaitingxInxSilence]

She used her inheritance and several thousand dollars she won from an injury.

[@indigobunting2431]

Babysitters, diapers, time, money... how did she do all these stim procedures?

[@AKbaby89]

The "let me tell you something" clip is so funny😂😂😂😂 i keep rewinding to watch it

[@InfamousAmanda]

So if Nadya passed away during her pregnancy or due to complications giving birth, would they have charged the doctor with manslaughter??? Seems that Kamrava downplayed it because she survived, I wonder if he would have still downplayed it if she didn't.

[@cstephenson3749]

Where did she get all of the money to afford all of these treatments and how to afford the baby products, housing and other daily expenses? The costs must have been beyond the income of most working Americans.

[@Dyejob01]

I am so glad you did a deep dive into this part of the story. It truly shows how horribly the media and her doctor treated her!!!!❤❤❤

[@MasonHP]

He is clearly corrupt, but I think the mom is either quite ignorant or hooked on pregnancy or not mentally stable. I went through 1 IVF cycle and had a baby and then a frozen cycle, I definitely educated myself to know exactly what was going on and what they did for both.

[@WaitingxInxSilence]

She was recently divorced when she started IVF- so I suspect she was trying to replace the love of her husband with children. 😢

[@amethyst5512]

He needed to lose his license sooner (absolutely NO excuse for what he did). & she clearly needed a psychiatric evaluation. It was a match made in hell & he took advantage of her (I wish they could send him to jail too). She was clearly vulnerable & she became his cash cow/lab rat. She clearly had some issues that needed to be addressed, but no, we just keep doing fresh cycles. It’s one thing to want a big family. To turn yourself into a continual baby factory (especially with no partner) is another thing. There’s no way she has the time to spend quality time with each kid on a regular basis. People like this are often either trying to fill a void in their life, belong to a high demand religion, and/or view children as a status symbol/ collectors item.

[@claireurban6368]

Mama Doctor Jones, I love seeing this side of you getting all riled up. It makes it clear just how much you care for patients, even when they are not yours.

[@larissabrglum3856]

The fertility medicine field seems to attract some deeply disturbed people

[@dance88180]

Wanting a big family is not a reason to get mental health help, but going through all of this, in such a time frame, to get it might be

[@SeekingTheLoveThatGodMeans7648]

Yeh, there's something to be said for allowing enough time so that the older ones will be able to assist the younger ones. Not just wham bam bam bam bam.

[@AJansenNL]

​@@SeekingTheLoveThatGodMeans7648 No, it's not right to wait for the other siblings to grow up a bit so they can assist you with younger ones. Let kids be kids. Parenting is the adult's job.

[@Farimira]

​@@SeekingTheLoveThatGodMeans7648while its good for kids to help around the house so they can learn to look after themselves, it isn't ok to have kids with intention of the older ones helping to parent the younger ones, let kids have enough time to focus on their education and be kids.

[@kuroe-chan5190]

I prefer to atleast have my first one able to walk and talk and somewhat do things o. Their own if needed like 4 or 5yrs old. However we’ve had fertility issues for 15-20 yrs and at this point we plan to do IVF for first child and after a year or two start for baby 2: because I’m almost 40, 38 in NOvember and IVF process surprising takes quite a while. I’m planning to do retrieval and have to wait till next fall to transfer because of surgery

[@amybourque3851]

I wish I could have gotten a tummy tuck! My stomach area has never been the same.

[@rsa9082]

My question was always. Where did she get the money to do that? From the news she (the mom). Was a single mom and was living off the government. I don’t believe 98 0/0 of what the. News says. But they never mentioned how truly expensive having this treatment is.

[@minighul6511]

Being only 20 and living in Europe I never heard of that Story I am so glad that that Men can not practice anymore and hope she is doing fine, because I can imagine that something like that hits hard on mental health. No one should ever go through something like that again

[@a.d.malicia4543]

I'm subscribing because of your reaction to this case. Thank you and love the content.

[@MajikAce]

I’m glad to hear at least one person not calling her crazy

[@MissVasques]

The media’s spin on the mother makes me think of McD and the hot coffee. It was only a few years ago I heard the truth of what kind of burns she did get and wheel-chaired for months etc. But before that it was a ”joke” about Americans sue for ridicilous reasons.

[@jaybehkay2438]

“Thaw out your frosty little embryos” is not a sentence I thought I’d ever hear

[@michellebaker6302]

She said they did 6 for the octuplets and two split to make twins. Uhhhh none of those kids look remotely like they are part of a pair of identical twins.

[@claire2088]

I don't think a 'normal' doctor would need to refer to therapy/counselling, but given the way he was doing IVF, creating more and more frozen embryos someone should have made sure she understood what was happening, I also think that maybe counselling might have made her think 'it's okay to slow down' like the gaps are so insanely short between them, honestly, just because of how he was practicing I think it would have been really really really helpful for her to speak to someone who wasn't him about the process etc.

[@Fizzypopization]

This is one of those situations where everyone in it sucks. If you're going for IVF and not willing to destroy embryos, you shouldn't be going for IVF period. The doctor definitely treated her wrongly and as a cash cow. He did not do his due diligence of informing her or helping her. At the same time though Nadia made questionable decisions as well. After six kids she shouldn't have even had the octuplets. There's difference between large families and being obsessed with baby making, Nadia was obsessed with making babies. I often wonder if she knew something was up, but ignored her suspicions because she wanted to continue having children. I think both of them had ulterior motives and weren't honest about the situation. I think the doctor holds the most responsibility simply because he had the most power to stop this, but man do I feel for those kids.

[@kuroe-chan5190]

I agree with you. She is not innocent Nadia was up to something along with that Dr I. My opinion . She needed mental evaluation because this is madness!!!! And Dr needed to lose his license . Asap! She must have a strong as body physically and mentally. With the massive hormones rushing through her from postpartum then almost immediate stim how did she litterally not loose her mind and experience PPD or PPP😮. Boggles my mind

[@deadbunnys]

you can't expect her to think rationally after the whole agony he continuously put her body and psyche through tho

[@gerrimilner9448]

30 years practice, you would think he knew what he was doing by now.

[@LauraWalez26541]

The media was so brutal in the early 2000’s like did they not think their words would do anything? Why were they so harsh?

[@shahidajnur]

I've been waiting for this video!!

[@angrynoodletwentyfive6463]

honestly she probably was in need of mental health services. I don't think she was "crazy" persay but she definitely had an unhealthy obcession with having babies that she should have received therapy for before a responcible doctor would allow her to keep trying for babies. Or atleast do an evaluation to rule out that there is some sort of psychological issue going on before proceeding after the 4th kid in so few years. Nobody should tell anybody how many kids they are allowed to have but its irresponsible with this time line to not atleast make sure that she is making her choices so in a healthy headspace before providing assistance in having a 5th kid in 4 years...

[@Mugelbbub16]

I'm listening to this while scrolling through fb, and it's kinda sounding like someone tried to have as many babies as possible, but in BitLife

[@sharleenwolfe9301]

In 1999 I had ivf in Australia. I had 30 eggs. Resulting in 12 embryos. 2 put back in to me. The other 10 frozen and later donated to two different families. My 2 embryos resulted in one baby being born. I now have my most wanted son. I never found out any info about the other embryos.

[@WishGender]

love to see corruption in the medical field /s

[@tazzyanderson1192]

13:45 Dude's collecting embryos like they're Pokémon cards

[@erinnsixkiller2794]

Thank you so much for researching and sharing this side of the story.

[@tammyreeves168]

I don’t understand how she could afford this. Wasn’t she a single mom? I remember when my sister n law and brother went threw this and the huge amounts of money they had to come up with for just 2 cycles of ivf. Then the cost of raising so many children. Properly raise children. I don’t know all the facts because I didn’t follow this story in the beginning. I obviously heard about it but I don’t really follow the normal news because so much of it is made up and exaggerated.

[@Fizzypopization]

Given the facts of the case she probably has wealthy parents. Probably her own trust.

[@lissaquon607]

I'm reminded of a lady i saw on nanny 911 who suffered a lot abuse and somehow felt that more children meant more love. So was gunning for 12 children. No amount of "wtf- you cant handle the kids you have" shook her from this. I wonder what sort of compulsion this woman had.