More info: mitxela.com/flash_synth Interested in owning one? Head to Aaron's shop: hpi.zentral.zone/flash
Пікірлер: 753
@1owk3y4 жыл бұрын
"... now simply plug in your USB business-card stylophone, a mobile power bank and a piezo-buzzer, and you have a whole studio which fits neatly into an empty soda can, for some reason..."
@shelvacu4 жыл бұрын
when does he say that in the video?
@Fraptab4 жыл бұрын
I thought it was funny...
@JGHFunRun3 жыл бұрын
And if you want sequencing/recording there are a ton of hand held recording devices that fit into that small a thing. I have an old tape recorder from my parents stuff that could work for this (admittedly there’s a ton of static, and you can only recorder one thing per tape, but still, they exist)
@GatheredStorm_YT3 жыл бұрын
Yup pretty much
@shyne26433 жыл бұрын
youtube algorithm :)
@leozendo35004 жыл бұрын
Call it midi to 3.5mm audio jack converter.
@GottZ4 жыл бұрын
*adapter sounds more hilarious
@Z-Ack4 жыл бұрын
Im saying..? Isnt the keyboard hes using a midi controller and oscillation is built in along with various preprogrammed voices and on board digital and analog modulation.. the thing he was hyping up about in the beginning was just a jack so you could see the waves oscillate on the scope through midi cabling and power injection to give the waves amplitude to make them more visible on the scope so essentially he put a stand alone amplifier circuit inside a housing with plugs on it., and those circuits are simple as hell with only 4 components on some..
@MICHhimself4 жыл бұрын
@@Z-Ack MIDI sends out only note data and parameters values, to put it simply, but no actual audio data. The keyboard you see here is a MIDI controller without any ability to generate audio. It does have a bunch of knobs and sliders which send parameter update messages over MIDI to whichever device is listening. Typically you'd send this data to either a computer running audio software, or a hardware synthesizer. In this case, that hardware synthesizer which listens for "play the note A4 with 80/127 velocity" and various parameters, is contained entirely within the MIDI plug. So the full actual synthesizer is super small, and powered entirely from the small electrical signals that are meant only for data (not power).
@rich10514144 жыл бұрын
@@MICHhimself Right, to simplify, midi out is streamed midi just sends the BPM/timing and instrument events and parameters(including pitch, so micro-tonal is possible) for something else to do something with. No actual audio is sent, that is all assembled by the synth at the end. Well, mostly, instrument wave tables can by synced with patches, but that's a different story entirely. It's not an insignificant task what that little dongle is doing. Midi is a really simple standard, but the devil is in the details.
@EnginAtik3 жыл бұрын
How about the reverse? 3.5mm female audio jack to midi adapter?
@quadrugue4 жыл бұрын
If someone is going to travel back in time to 198x, take this thing with you.
@iadtag18534 жыл бұрын
It will blow their minds like atom bombs.
@Rudofaux3 жыл бұрын
They'll see as alien tech that's too powerful to be in anyone's hands.
@Alkatross3 жыл бұрын
They did not have 14 bit pitch bends.
@skunklungz3 жыл бұрын
@@Alkatross like that would matter at all
@kaptainjay62383 жыл бұрын
@@skunklungz 😂😂😂😂😂
@scribtoon71464 жыл бұрын
I thought he was joking at first when he was talking about the 16 voices in the beginning.
@___d3114 жыл бұрын
I know nothing about synths so I thought nothing of it
@scribtoon71464 жыл бұрын
@@___d311 a voice is a single note you can play at once. so 16 voices = 16 notes you can play at one time
@___d3114 жыл бұрын
ScribTOON Oh that’s cool
@JensGulin4 жыл бұрын
Apart from demo, don't miss "the gory tech details" at 21:23 and showing the insides at 34:08. Outro at 36:42.
@BertGrink4 жыл бұрын
The great Science-Fiction author Arthur C. Clarke once said "Any sufficently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic". This device proves that he was right.
@leonk69504 жыл бұрын
Wow, this is literally the midi-to-3,5mm Adapter stupid people always ask me about when explaining them MIDI 😂😂
@georgeisratemint2 жыл бұрын
Best analogy of midi for those not involved would be to hand somebody a sheet of music and ask them why can't you hear the music
@djpetesake5 ай бұрын
Now you don't need MIDI headphones!
@bt_184 жыл бұрын
Mitxela: (uploads after 5 months) Me and the fans: *happy MIDI noises*
@nullderef4 жыл бұрын
More like happy MIDI messages
@otesunki4 жыл бұрын
Me, finding this in the future: *Happy Cmaj7#11 noises*
@patemathic3 жыл бұрын
Even better, happy MIDI signals
@Wtfinc2 жыл бұрын
how hard would it be to make a home made midi controller.
@ChrisLeeW004 жыл бұрын
"For the production run" Okay, my wallet is ready.
@gabrielhogan96704 жыл бұрын
Chris LeeWooo Check video description, there is a link
@karlkastor4 жыл бұрын
@@gabrielhogan9670 130€ Jesus. I know that this is an ok price if you factor in the time it took them to make this, but I don't think anyone is gonna pay that much for something so small and gimmicky. Especially when the Microcontroller at the heart of it only costs about 10€.
@whoho14 жыл бұрын
@@karlkastor Just FYI "SOLD OUT! - 150 sold"
@Rudofaux3 жыл бұрын
@@whoho1 😢
@joemontgomery66583 жыл бұрын
Rudofaux he’s doing more
@Hartlor_Tayley4 жыл бұрын
That’s great. I remember Ensoniq started as a hearing aid manufacturer and scaled up to making synths. You have done the opposite. I love it.
@klangkombinat-de4 жыл бұрын
i don't think Bob Yannes would call the C64 SID-Chip a hearing aid
@Hartlor_Tayley4 жыл бұрын
Hama Geddon I agree. Ensoniq didn’t consider their hearing aid technology a synthesizer either. The people that designed algorithms to smooth topographical data points, probably had no idea that it would be applied to audio in the form of Autotune. Changing the form and function and scale of known technology is very interesting IMO.
@DerSolinski4 жыл бұрын
send one to andrew huang :)
@slayerficated4 жыл бұрын
Bump
@ShadiGhanem4 жыл бұрын
YES WE NEED TO SEE THIS HAPPEN!
@conor41424 жыл бұрын
Weird Gear would be a great showcase of this!
@thepjup45074 жыл бұрын
andrew huang is trash
@reggiep754 жыл бұрын
I'd suggest 8-Bit Keys or Simon the Magpie, the latter who'll seriously aim to meddle with it's s***.
@Doctormix4 жыл бұрын
Killer idea
@bankawatlata3573 жыл бұрын
Hello Dr.mix
@Degrizai4 жыл бұрын
5:25 - It sounds simply awesome - need to develop this into a full track +_+
@speeddemon44843 жыл бұрын
5:52 agreed
@AaronVB3 жыл бұрын
@@speeddemon4484 somehow that melody sounds very familiar
@otesunki2 жыл бұрын
a fellow +_+er!
@becketthor64782 жыл бұрын
Sounds like type o negative
@MeAlexSenna4 жыл бұрын
“A love letter to the Din Connector”... indeed it is
@InkyDaCaT4 жыл бұрын
Great comment
@MeAlexSenna4 жыл бұрын
Goric // stop being weird and go talk to your mom
@InkyDaCaT4 жыл бұрын
@@MeAlexSenna Great comment 😂🙌
@gadgetmama4 жыл бұрын
Big surprise that women can be intellectual, beautiful, and indipendent, eh? Rock on 🤘
@cadenhood4 жыл бұрын
Dankeschön, Deutsches Institut für Normung. (I feel compelled to tie this back to Germany)
@an2qzavok4 жыл бұрын
I should start an anti-USB club or something. These "legacy" connectors are a lot easier to poke around in a DIY environment, unlike modern stuff, so I don't want too see them go away.
@Ariche24 жыл бұрын
I had to reflow the pins to a Mini-USB port on a Blue Snowball iCE mic today, as an inexperienced solderer, and without a hot air gun. I'm gonna agree with you on this one
@retrozvoc61894 жыл бұрын
If you do, PLEASE make I2C or USART or SPI be the new communication method so that I can use my Teensy 3.5 with it to make my own portable MIDI sequencer. Millennial musicians need to be healed from broken backs and slanderings like "Self-entitled computer basement babies" by going outside to perform their talents publicly!
@retrozvoc61894 жыл бұрын
@@sfasdfasdgagsdgsdsa on a 6-pin MIDI microcontroller XD
@thegeopard23134 жыл бұрын
Imagine needing to write a device stack to recieve a few notes - this post was made by the MIDI gang
@sonicunleashedfan1244 жыл бұрын
Yes
@CyberCatto4 жыл бұрын
13:08 oh my rythmic abdolute goodness
@H3wastooshort4 жыл бұрын
Sell em' as a "MIDI to -USB- 3.5mm Adapter"
@ezyto3 жыл бұрын
I periodically go back to this video just to hear this man play the funny sounds
@westeray4 жыл бұрын
These sold out pretty quick! Cant wait until more are made, I can only imagine how rad it'd be to plug one of these bad boys into my Yamaha SHS-10
@comicsansgreenkirby4 жыл бұрын
Westeray Media GASP THEYRE BEING SOLD?? ASLFJSKJF
@samgentle4 жыл бұрын
Optimisation-wise, there's some really neat stuff you can do using the STM32's DMA controller, like load a whole wavetable into a circular buffer and just let the DMA controller send it to the DAC - zero CPU cycles needed.
@andrewnibbi4 жыл бұрын
samgentle This is a really interesting concept; do you have any reading I could follow up on?
@samgentle4 жыл бұрын
@@andrewnibbi ST has an overview under "AN3126: Audio and waveform generation using the DAC", and there's a good write-up called "The DAC and its DMA buddy" on the Jeelabs blog. Also check out dac-dma.c in the libopencm3-examples repository on GitHub. (I'd give links but they tend to upset KZbin's spam detector)
@noouch4 жыл бұрын
As far as I can tell this would limit the synth to a single oscillator, however most STM32s are fast enough for doing it in software to not have too much of an impact. Best case you’d only be using a single multiply-add per oscillator just to sum the values from the wavetable.
@thomzz34494 жыл бұрын
@samgentle I'm currently working on such a synth on STM32F401 and a PCM5102 dac. The DMA for the audio works with circular dubble buffer and I've also got a DMA setup for analog inputs. I'm doing more wave stuf at the moment, but at a certain point I will release everything to the public in some way (GIT hub or Thingiverse)
@amigalemming2 жыл бұрын
Sounds like the way Amiga's Paula chip produced sound.
@JOELwindows74 жыл бұрын
This is your daily dose of Recommendation Smallest MIDI SYnth again
@ArjanvanVught4 жыл бұрын
I cannot wait to see your code optimization tricks. However, the GCC compiler generates pretty good ARM assembler code. Mostly more clever than I would do write assembly.
@morgan04 жыл бұрын
you should add microtonal capabilities should have looked at the website first, or finished the video i want one even more now
@JavierCarrilloMilla4 жыл бұрын
hhaha so great
@kamalmanzukie3 жыл бұрын
microtonal isn't so easy with midi
@among-us-999994 жыл бұрын
I could listen to you playing around with this thing all day.
@SomeoneCommenting4 жыл бұрын
I love to see in the oscilloscope screen what these notes are doing to your brain lol
@mikaras4 жыл бұрын
You produce some of the most interesting projects on KZbin. It is always great and inspiring content. Looking forward to see what you come up with next, I am sure it's awesome.
@isabuckles4 жыл бұрын
I need more of that 9:35 - 11:20 noodling in my life.
@unfa004 жыл бұрын
I could listen to your jamming for hours. Have you made any albums?
@JGHFunRun3 жыл бұрын
UNFA!!! Hi unfa!
@unfa003 жыл бұрын
@@JGHFunRun O hai!
@gundamwang4 жыл бұрын
I've watched this like, 5 times at work, just to hear you jam out.
@noahschannel32094 жыл бұрын
I've been looking at synthesizers for months now trying to find the perfect one for me. I really shouldn't have bought this and stuck with something different, but life is about taking risks anyway! I can not wait to get this thing and try it out.....
@zelokorLocalGodOfChaosAndBread2 жыл бұрын
how'd it go?
@jerricabenton8424 жыл бұрын
"I couldn't not add an arpeggiator" :D
@BrendanPowerMusic4 жыл бұрын
I've no idea what you're talking about half the time Tim, but love your presentation and the amazing power of that georgous little gizmo!
@ezion674 жыл бұрын
Your mini synth gives me a big smile :) love it!
@GerhardAlbinus4 жыл бұрын
Simply fantastic and magical! Astonishing to say the least. Thank you for creating such a device.
@nerd_world89194 жыл бұрын
You just earned a subscriber. I originally watched your stylophone business card and thought it was very neat. Then recently I rediscovered your channel and binge watched all your wacky creations keep up the great work
@paulpvhl19303 жыл бұрын
Brilliant! Reminds me of playing with my dad's VCS3 as a young lad. My favourite was using the ring modulator. Subscribed and will investigate this further. Lovely work.
@cat2kill4 жыл бұрын
I've absolutely loved it. The skill, the presentation and everything else. Bravo.
@donjezza4 жыл бұрын
I'm so glad people are devoting time and effort to this sort of endeavour, thanks for sharing such detailed information :)
@Digithalis4 жыл бұрын
This is just awesome product for my project. I will check this later. Great job captain!
@theacematt24 жыл бұрын
😍. I love the sounds here. Thank you. Debating a purchase, unsure of the support on my devices here, lol. Best wishes in any case 😊
@EthanWiner2 жыл бұрын
This is fabulous! Thanks for making this video, and of course the synthesizer too.
@ProdDJD2 жыл бұрын
I'm counting on you for the next batch 🙏 this is so good
@Aussiesnrg4 жыл бұрын
That is amazing! Brought back fond memories of making and tweaking the DX7 patches and other synths, and so much smaller!
@gnudarve4 жыл бұрын
There are no words. This is just incredibly cool and awesome, thank you!
@checktheevidence4 жыл бұрын
Clever stuff ! Congratulations on producing such an elegant and tiny solution/package!
@leadersoundproductions46664 жыл бұрын
Amazing... This is brilliant. Well done!
@el.blanco89614 жыл бұрын
Wow everything you played was interesting and beautiful, in sound and performance. Keep doing what your doing
@among-us-999994 жыл бұрын
I could listen to you playing around with Synthesizers for hours
@laurencevanhelsuwe30524 жыл бұрын
Loved the technical details part.. thanks for sharing.
@mutzbunny4 жыл бұрын
holy sh*t that sounds so amazing, that cant be real.
@GreatJoe4 жыл бұрын
Oh, you're on KZbin? Your article on the RN-42 and how to use it in a wireless gamepad helped me pass my wireless build exam back in 2016. I'm a Journeyman now, and the gamepad I made with your info is still one of my favourite things I made. Thank you!
@TheResistorNetwork4 жыл бұрын
Exceptional project, especially the attention given to power consumption. I have mikmod running on an STM32 which allows it to render Amiga MOD files. There is something fun about deeply embedded audio synthesis where the audio framework is the output register of the DAC. Well done!
@pianokeyjoe4 жыл бұрын
ya had me at running mikmod..
@user829384 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the technical details. I'm not very educated on electrical engineering, but it was interesting to hear about it.
@G1SUNPLANT Жыл бұрын
Insane!!! Man you made a breakthrough in big style! Great play and awesome engineering!
@chriswareham4 жыл бұрын
Amazing! You could plug eight of these into the MIDI outs on a Yamaha QX-1 and replicate the monster Yamaha TX-816 rack that was eight DX-7 synth engines, but with double the polyphony!
@sylvainbeaulieu53404 жыл бұрын
Very cool to watch for a fan of midi & electronics! Hope to see more of this good stuff
@rectangleboy4 жыл бұрын
Dude, it's just great hearing you play.
@artisimo79674 жыл бұрын
ive bumped into you a total of 3 times on the youtubes you are now a recognised familliar face
@smacksalad4 жыл бұрын
Very impressive. I suspect this video is going to really rack up those views. Well done on this project.
@kingbiscuit3934 жыл бұрын
Nerds are cool.
@johnnyegel3 жыл бұрын
This is really some great work here. I really love it :-)
@SlamWeasel2 жыл бұрын
Not gonna lie, I could listen to you jamming on the spacy Synths all day long
@TDGalea4 жыл бұрын
God I love synth sounds. This is absolutely gorgeous.
@duncanurquhart52782 жыл бұрын
I swear this series (?) is making me fall in love with synths all over again
@bingoccolon2 жыл бұрын
god i would listen to you play for hours.
@alexbecker41494 жыл бұрын
*Oh wow, just what I needed all my life, but I wish it was 16 channel multi-timbral!*
@Fritzendugan4 жыл бұрын
build it yourself, iterate on his design :) Or probably just wait for v2 next year xD
@creativebeetle4 жыл бұрын
Unbelievable! Fantastic work
@kinnectar8203 жыл бұрын
Wow, that tone at 15:00 got me going! Do want! I wish they would do a bigger batch run.
@whitturner79194 жыл бұрын
I must say algorithm 1 - quad oscillators manages to sound very much like an analog synth - very nice!
@kicksNCY4 жыл бұрын
yes indeed, remind me of my jx10
@oldbatwit51024 жыл бұрын
I have absolutely no use for one of these but I want one..... and now!
@trileansoftware14404 жыл бұрын
Amazing. And glad you did a technical breakdown at the end, for me at least that I'm not musician is the most interesting part. The STM32L432 does work on really low power, did you consider any of the MSP432P4xx? And about the next step of doing your own processor you mentioned, you could look into FPGAs before you dive into actual actual custom silicon.
@RobertSzasz4 жыл бұрын
For prototyping only. FPGAs are power hogs unfortunately.
@lavenderinthedark4 жыл бұрын
came for the awesome tech and cool ideas, stayed for the funky tunes.
@dutchdykefinger4 жыл бұрын
first note: big fat FM sound ok, i'm interested... i love me some FM synths. i bet the metal housing makes the sounds even more clangy! :')
@HominidMachinae4 жыл бұрын
I really dig the FM sound on this thing too. It's definitely its OWN sound, it's not trying to be a DX7 clone, but you can get DX7 sound, it's not an OPN2 but you can get OPN2 sound out of it for sure. I could see this being absolutely massive for retrowave and synthwave, it would be a huge boon to making big 80s sound while adding new sounds to the toolbox as opposed to just running timeworn dexed VSTs or shelling out for vintage hardware, at a reasonable price and with better programming capability than the vintage FM synths.
@dutchdykefinger4 жыл бұрын
@@HominidMachinae true that i personally have a bit of a weak spot for that yamaha YM chip they put in the sega megadrive, which really isn't far off the OPL2/OPL3 ones, but it's even harsher. i kinda like that. i've done trackers for a long time, in fact still use renoise as my DAW right now, never really got into dexed though, tried it once or twice, found it a bit too much hassle, and went back to single-cycle sample based instruments in a piece of software i know a lot better doesn't get me the FM, but you can make some crazy chains in renoise instruments, but oxevst had covered me whenever i needed it :') if only i had hard synced sample retriggers i could probably make a bit of that c64 vibe too (yeah let's not get into how c64 isn't an FM chip, and those filters are analog and in series, so random AF, but it certainly shares some very FM-ish features when it comes to modulation) i like the idea of actual hardware, and it's a lot cheaper than one of them hardsids without the silly limitations.
@HominidMachinae4 жыл бұрын
@@dutchdykefinger I believe the megadrive used the OPN2, unless you mean the master system japanese version, that used the "upgrade chip" OPLL
@heinseemann70706 ай бұрын
This ist great! So much tweakable FM sound in such a small package ... Great!
@adastra1234 жыл бұрын
That's soooooo damned clever.i wish I was that smart. Well done lol , probably the most well explained videos on how you did it.
@enilenis3 жыл бұрын
On tantalum, the stripe is the opposite polarity, compared to electrolytics? Well, that explains a lot. I wish I knew that before attempting to repair my 48-port gigabit switch. It's off to silicon heaven.
@mizukichan9994 жыл бұрын
The 8 Bit Guy would love this!
@cln55104 жыл бұрын
Petition to get the the 8 bit guy to get this
@mpwsh4 жыл бұрын
This is so epic. awesome work!
@PhilXavierSierraJones4 жыл бұрын
I have a cheap Yamana keyboard synth and it almost exactly sounds like this! Splendid job, looking forward to more projects from you :) (It probably uses a reduced version of FM synthesis chip used in DX7)
@HominidMachinae4 жыл бұрын
They made a whole series of synths that used the YMxxxx / OPxx series chips. They all share a certain sound, the OPP (YM2164) chip was used in a whole "DX" series as well as some Korg models (!). I would bet that you have a DX100, DX21 or other model in that line. Fun fact: Other chips in the same series were sold to Sega and used in arcade cabinets and, most famously the OPN2 (YM2612) was used in the Sega Genesis. The L2 variant was used in soundblaster and adlib sound cards.
@2.7petabytes4 жыл бұрын
Holy Hell! That’s ridiculously groovy! I’m in! I’ll take one for sure!
@tonystephen63124 жыл бұрын
and now for the FX/ reverb built in and DX 7 structure as well !
@xhivo979 ай бұрын
This is so cool! I am working on making an ATtiny85 based MIDI wavetable synth. So far the specs are looking to be a least 4 voices at 6bits amplitude and 62ksps. The massive limitation was the lack of hardware multiplier for amplitude control, but I managed to get that part down to 39 cycles if I limited it to 6bits, which is all I need anyways since the 4 channels share one PWM output. It will be opensource and I'll make sure to e-mail the the link to the repo to mitxela as soon as I'm done, just in case he would find it interesting.
@lo-firobotboy71124 жыл бұрын
This is perfect for keytars. I must have one....maybe two!!
@TheBaconWizard4 жыл бұрын
Holy crap, that's really impressive!
@IgnatRemizov4 жыл бұрын
Truly incredible. I don't have a midi keyboard I could use with this, but this is something I could totally see myself buying and using it I had one
@tsobf2423 жыл бұрын
I come back to this video occasionally just to hear the fun sounds. It's a very impressive range of sound considering the limitations. When I write synthesizers from scratch, they barely run on normal computers.
@thewolfin4 жыл бұрын
Buy 5, 'cause you might lose them!
@glenesis4 жыл бұрын
No joke! I keep losing some of my full sized synths!
@glenesis4 жыл бұрын
@@euphemiaadamson8375 agreed. Need 16. But my interface has multiple MIDI out jacks, so...I need 80 of them.
@colinhoek4 жыл бұрын
You keep impressing me. Ur a genius!
@Zach010ROBLOX7 ай бұрын
No f*cking way. This is an amazing feat of engineering, so so cool. I hope more people see this and appreciate your work
@yy6u4 жыл бұрын
congrats, thats a hell of a device im impressed man
@kristofers65594 жыл бұрын
Your videos are awesome!
@templemu4 жыл бұрын
superb, and a great vid for explaining synth and FM basics, for people like me who just do not understand FM please someone give this an Angel investment
@ejjes4 жыл бұрын
Really exciting! I've heard people question whether this might eventually damage the circuitry in the controller, due to power draw? I have no frame of reference though.
@JasperJanssen4 жыл бұрын
The power supply in a board that size could have 5 mA vampiric draw due to stray capacitance and never notice. The led backlight of that LCD right there will draw several times that whenever it’s on, never mind on full brightness. I mean, nothing is ever impossible, but this is really unlikely to be a valid concern.
@KallePihlajasaari2 жыл бұрын
Magnificent integration. I have no musical inclination and the closest I got to MIDI was thinking of making a Midi to player piano interface as a project with a friend. I think if you get it to market before some copycat outfit you could have a successful niche product. A Kickstarter or Indigogo campaign could even pay for any missing software development and required custom machining. I wish you all success with your project. I like your MIDI music box too, very educational.
@justanotheryoutuber7394 жыл бұрын
34:25 - yes, I am still watching and yes, I am really excited! This is some real og sauce!
@WHYZMAN_3 жыл бұрын
This is the type of content I need in my life
@ryanjones58034 жыл бұрын
I wonder if this will work with my Octatrack. Would make for a very cool combo. Like adding a Digitone on the cheap! Sounds fantastic
@CostasLilitsas4 жыл бұрын
Dude, you have re-invented the scale of awesomeness!!! Fucking extraordinary engineering!!! I wish you the success you disserve man! 👍
@theLuigiFan0007Productions4 жыл бұрын
Daaaaammmmn. Now that sounds beautiful, the sound is really nostalgic and analog. If I had a keyboard with a MIDI connector I'd say shut up and take my money already. Unfortunately, I don't. But the day I do, let's just say I'ma get me one of these little wonders.
@MahikaZeroNine3 жыл бұрын
Absolutely great work
@blocktockblock63294 жыл бұрын
looking forward to the source, i love some function pointers :)