The Snap Cut ... and when to avoid it

[@nate2838]

Hey Terry, i just wanted to say that i found this video incredibly helpful. I've only worked for a small company, and i have a co worker who's been doing tree work for 15 years. Hes NEVER seen a climber use a wedge to reduce the pushing force required in a snap cut. I typically used the wedge to keep the kerf open, then remembered having watched this video a couple years ago, and gave more attention to the benefits. The wedges reducing the contact are truly makes a major difference. Thank you very much for making this video. I think Human will appreciate this. I haven't seen him using wedges in the tree for this purpose yet, and he has the mind and attitude to appreciate how much easier this could make his life :)

[@terryhale9006]

Thanks Nate. Always glad to hear someone found something helpful.

[@stuby2014]

Very analytical. something you didn't consider when sliding the wood off is the sap of different trees and how long you let the piece sit. If it was yellow pine the friction and heat created when cutting releases more sap and you let that piece sit you would break your scale trying to push it off. SAFETY ADVICE FOR YOU AND EVERYONE WATCHING. NEVER EVER do the cut you did at 1:50. You do not cut with the top of your blade with the bottom of it facing your belly. Your snap cuts should be side to side. If the piece your cutting breaks prematurely it will fall to the side and not in your lap. Also when doing a snap cut your second cut should be lower than the first for 2 reasons.First your not putting pressure on the log possibly causing it to prematurely snap off. Second, if while cutting, your holding wood does break your saw blade is in there to hold it like a wedge. But thanks for teaching me another use for a bathroom scale.

[@18winsagin]

As a homeowner cutting a couple trees here there the information I get here is priceless and will make cutting much safer and less exhausting, well worth the time, thank you for your effort and time.

[@terryhale9006]

Thanks. That has been my goal.

[@cleancuts6656]

I love your videos !!!! They tech me so much. Please don't ever stop making videos !! Instructional videos and blogs are a dime a dozen but scientific mathematical explanations like yours are priceless !! Thanks

[@terryhale9006]

Thanks. I have about 20 more planned. Just takes time to get to them. Thanks again.

[@lucfournier3939]

Clean Cuts .heah! mr hale is à génius

[@kenerickson4851]

Something about your presentation is exceptionally appealing to me, over and above the topic (which I do have an interest in). Thank you for teaching in a way that draws me into the learning.

[@iosefaleala3878]

Ken Erickson the B kbfgcgy

[@BernhardHofmann]

I have to say it. I just love your videos. This one is particularly entertaining (when you describe being thrown about with a running chainsaw in hand). But also seeing mistakes and how you learn from them and teach others is admirable beyond the words I can currently find to describe it. Thank you so much for the time you put into making and sharing these.

[@terryhale9006]

Thanks Bernie!

[@wombatop4069]

I literally have got the cut to be more than I can explain it is my everything. I literally can say I remove trees from the bottom up and base even. My sideways snap is something I can do and I'm below it. It's not safe and I don't have any need for approval from my way. I just been doing that for 5 years now and I have done it over houses. I love the snap cut but I don't think people have my energy. I'm not gonna say that anyone else should do it because you don't want to log yourself or a roof. I just was left by my boss and literally got into the lift and made sure I respected the way I was cutting. rigging saves your body and keeps the crew busy. I literally just could take a tree down faster than rigging it out. I am definitely not a guy with an ego. I just learned my way and it's not normal like that of guys roping. Everyone else I seen make a snap. Will be getting the bar stuck in the bottom cut and giving up. Great video

[@ericconner9971]

I have really enjoyed these videos. If you’re not an engineer, you are one at heart. I’m not personally but I can nerd out on the videos, it helps to work though the process for me better than some other offerings out there. Thanks for the great content.

[@savage22bolt32]

So true. I never took physics in high school, but I've always had an interest in the topic. Perhaps that's why I love tree cutting. It's really all about physics!

[@ej7431]

I want to thank you for your videos. I am a novice in cutting trees down. I am 65 and have cut down over 120 pines I consider small 6 to 24 inch in diameter and maybe up to 60' in height over the past year before watching your videos. I have learned much from trial and error. However, I will be taking on some larger trees including climbing them so I have been paying much attention to your videos and others . Again thanks for your videos.

[@terryhale9006]

Thanks Troy. Sounds like you"re clearing to build your retirement dream home. Whatever the situation, I hope hope can enjoy the results and stay safe. As for climbing, treat my videos as a collection of what to avoid.

[@TheTreeGuy877]

Terry you little hidden gem you, i dig your vids bud. Im a climber in southern oregon, was watching your video on tag lineing trees. Have some doubts about some old climb line iv been using for rigging and pulling over trees, no noticeable damage but iv been hard on it and well....damage is accumalitive . Im rambling, have a good one terry!

[@ultrafarmer3069]

Just have to say mate watching you make that step cut with the tip of the saw actually gave me shivers. If you keen on cutting your guts open that's the way to do it. practice loosening your flipline a bit to allow to use the bottom of the bar and limit the risk of kickback.

[@roopower6667]

I what your saying is right and I agree! Makes me wince watching it, I've been climbing for 22 years now and so often see practices that will kill someone soon! Apart from the cutting techniques, the theory is basically ok, except the fact that once you have cut through a round enough to require the wedge to stop the saw being pinched, you will always always be able to finish the cut from there WITHOUT having to remove the saw from the cut as it will not pinch if you don't stop cutting!! The mistake people make is cutting to gingerly and slowly and then the saw gets clogged with sawdust and sap because it's not chucking it out far enough because it's not being used at the correct operating speed! Also what would be the point in making a snap cut with a log that heavy? Its not going to go anywhere and also its basically on the ground level anyway so can just be lifted away from anything it needs to be ! There's s correct way and then there's the smart way! Its admirable to be careful and mindful but if you don't need to make certain cuts because of reasons I've said, then don't, think of the extra time on the job it adds just doing crap that doesn't need doing, also wastes your energy

[@MrThenry1988]

I got the googoos also. Scary.

[@ArsonistArborist]

Most of these is things I've already learned through experience, but I appreciate having it verified by the science. As always, cool video. Thank you for the effort and time you put into your videos, Terry

[@terryhale9006]

Thanks Ryan. Off-the-ground is new to me, but I try to put some engineering to problems to compensate for my lack of experience.

[@ArsonistArborist]

Terry Hale you're doing a fine job

[@fitteritout3622]

I'm glad to find a newer video from you. I hope all is well and thank you for sharing your knowledge I find it fascinating thanks again.

[@terryhale9006]

Thanks Fitter. I hope to resume after a winter hiatus.

[@stephenfiore9960]

Gary Green ....Your comment reminds me of the phrase --"there are old electricians and bold electricians, but there are no old bold electricians".

[@a.wilson4809]

In reference to 5:56, the issue of pinching the saw can be remedied by making the smaller cut first (usually your directional cut) and then the back cut second. In the event that the saw does become pinched you can then apply the chainbrake and free the saw. This has the benefit of you having control of the timber as well as the saw acting as a wedge preventing the timber free falling away (especially useful when there are targets to avoid). The initial 170 reading was likely due to the snap not being complete. Not saying the cut was wrong, just that when you first"snapped" the chog it probably wasn't a clean snap.

[@trimbaker1893]

Good Morning Terry. I have to chuckle a bit. Imagining walking up on you in the woods, staying back a bit and trying to figure out what you are up to. What the heck? This guy is pushing a stump over and over again with ...wait, is that a bathroom scale? Just kidding, I like your thought process. It would be a curious site to see though. : ) Nicely done . George.

[@Andarien86]

snap cuts can be done parallel to the moment, essentially the same as hinge wood preventing a fell from going to either side . one can snap cut a horizontal limb vertically so there is the full diameter of the limb countering gravity trying to force it down (useful for steering).

[@terryhale9006]

Good Point!

[@tomcurran1538]

Just got an Echo 2511T top handle, but only using it for on ground limbing-no climbing for me! Good vid.

[@dpeterbannister]

Great movie as ever : thanks Terry. For heavy wood, try using a couple of steel rods in place of wedges to support the cut piece,. I find 6mm steel rods (with a hole drilled one end to take a split ring and thin cord so you don't drop it) allows easy rolling off the stump.

[@terryhale9006]

Good idea!

[@metacentercon]

God bless those who see a subject in most detailed and anal perspective. Love these videos

[@terryhale9006]

Searching for a cure.

[@metacentercon]

@@terryhale9006 *laughter*... please don't search for a cure. I'm the one who should learn to provide better congrats.

[@finksies23]

I bought a 193T for light trimming & pruning. Thing was a turd. I drilled out the muffler, and took the limiters off the carb. Almost keeps up with my 201T now. Just thought I would share since I know you use a 192 or 193.

[@ArsonistArborist]

Tom Saad I wasn't aware that there's a way to make the 193 useful. Thanks for sharing!

[@philmoore71]

i love the technical explanations. I am NEVER climbing up a tree to saw. I don't think i've ever heard live chipmunks before - tks

[@terryhale9006]

The beauty of KZbin: you can visualize things without having to actually be there. I love the sounds of chipmunks!

[@philmoore71]

@@terryhale9006 i am watching treesawing idiots on youtube - amazing to see the effects of your principles in action ie cars being overpowered by the trees strength; elasticity of wrong ropes used; no escape plan

[@savage22bolt32]

Chipmunks drive me nuts with their incessant chipping! So far I haven't hit one, but I send paint balls at them with my slingshot. The noise seems to shut them up for a while.

[@jeffreyrubish347]

I find your vids to be very helpful for us amateurs.

[@terryhale9006]

Thanks much, Jeffrey. (I can't claim to be a professional, however.)

[@JackRainfield]

Terry, you are a great example of how thoughtful we all should be when going into new and potentially risky endeavors. I am always going to stop and ask myself, what would Terry do in this situation!

[@terryhale9006]

LOL. Terry would screw it up once and learn from his mistake.

[@Bwanar1]

Curios on the initial cut, why you didn't throw a couple wedges on either side of your blade to finish the cut, as opposed to hinging it? It would seem it would give you a more accurate reading on your movement resistance.

[@andycapp8843]

Bwanar1 .......Because the video was about that particular technique I guess, not the method you are proposing.

[@erik30012]

interesting video, I find it easier to snap the cut by rocking the stem 90 degrees on the cut instead of rocking it in line with the cut, as you described. Less force seems to be needed and the amount of overlap seems not relevant in that case. Position is then best in the middle of the stem.

[@puppyfan4405]

Quick question. You mentioned making the bridge closer to an edge is less sawing because you’re only cutting through thickest part one time. But as long as the cuts overlap isn’t that the same amount of cutting no matter where they overlap?

[@terryhale9006]

The amount of cutting you have to do will be equal to the full cross-sectional area, plus the area of the overlap. Say you're shooting for a 1"overlap and the trunk is 12" in diameter. If you shoot to make the overlap directly in the middle, its area will be approximately 1" x 12" = 12 sq. in. If instead you plan to make the overlap away from the middle, the area of overlap will be something less, like 9 sq. in. The amount of time to make the cut and the wear on the sharpness of the teeth is directly related to the amount of area you're cutting. Granted, it's not a significant amount overall, but it is a savings.

[@michaelpcooksey5096]

Terry, am noticing you appear to favor using the top of chainsaw bar instead of bottom. Is this personal preference only, or another specific reason?

[@danieltheteacher]

hmm.. I learned that a 4-5 inch thick "burger" portion from your tree weighs 180 pounds. i learned that I love snap cuts because they'll give me time to put my tools away & get my hands free. i learned that i must do an angle down hill cut so that I'll be strong enough to push the "burger" piece off the tree. Thank you very much.

[@terryhale9006]

Thanks Dan. "Must" is probably overstating it. The inclined cut does make it easier to remove the "burger" on the really big trees.

[@peterford9369]

Guessing also your angle pushing downward added resistance. where as being behind the cut you get more umph into the push. At least that's what I was seeing as u got lower on stump. Truly enjoy your videos.

[@terryhale9006]

Thanks Peter. I was trying to make each push as horizontal as possible. A crude experiment, in any event.

[@peterford9369]

Terry Hale No sweat,,, totally understand the teaching. Always interested in methods,,, so many techniques. Learning all the time. Thanks very much.

[@ottard]

Great videos! The upper and lower cut; does it matter which is on the side you are felling towards?

[@terryhale9006]

Thanks much! I meant to mention that but unintentionally skipped it, so thanks for bringing it up. If you are dealing with a piece so big you need to slide it off, you absolutely want the second cut to be lower so nothing is left sticking above the main cut to get in the way. If you're going to be tipping the piece over, there is no mathematical reason why the second cut should need to be lower. However, I have a gut preference towards not seeing something sticking up from the stem after I've removed the piece.

[@benjaminchen1964]

I was told that if you are pushing the piece away from you the cut on the side you are on should be the higher of the 2 cuts else you are locking the piece. When in doubt on smaller pieces you could match the cuts on the same horizontal plane but as you lose the option to overlap the cut you could just narrow the thickness of the space between the kerfs. Have to experiment to get a feel for the holding wood. I did see a video where he made the cut to where it breaks if he pulled it towards him but I always like to push it to break since that is the direction I want it to go anyway.

[@tsieglieh]

Are you a physics teacher too? Very interesting video. Where did you learn about physics?

[@terryhale9006]

I'm actually an engineer.

[@tsieglieh]

That makes sense, I thought logging schools must be really advanced nowadays. Great content!

[@benjaminchen1964]

He's absolutely right and i love snap cuts but on big pieces now that's why i cut all the way around and just push it off b/c it takes extra force, a habit i picked up from watching all the Mexicans doing tree work. I try not to work harder than I have to as tree work is hard enough

[@benjaminchen1964]

You can plunge cut thru the center & work your way towards the outside in each direction, stop when almost through then finish the cut from outside if you don't want to fool with wedges. Another option is to go in a almost halfway into trunk then walk the saw using the kerf as a guide around the remaining uncut trunk to complete the cut. I can't even remember the last time I needed a wedge, you just have to read the compression and have a sharp and powerful saw

[@boyadh]

I wonder if the reason the numbers got lower was because as you shove to wood there's less and less wood making contact so there might be less friction

[@terryhale9006]

In theory, that shouldn't make a difference as the friction is supposed to be a factor of just the normal force. However, in reality, the pressure actually does make a bit of a difference, but it is small. That aside, I reset the block back to its original position three times, so the contact area went back to its original value.

[@boyadh]

Terry Hale Ahh, that then your idea seems more logical

[@peterford9369]

Was a bit nervous for you when u were in tree back cutting so close to yourself.

[@terryhale9006]

For the professionals, it's definitely a dangerous occupation. For an old novice hobbyist like me, I'm just hoping I don't have any great learning opportunities.

[@scatoutdebutter]

What model saw is that you are using on the ground?

[@terryhale9006]

It depends on the job. I don't like working with a saw that is heavier than it needs to be, so I baby my back by using an MS 170 for the small stuff, an MS 271 for the medium stuff, and an 044 for the big stuff. I'm not a rabid Stihl guy; the dealership is just conveniently close. On the stump, I was using the 044, a bit of an old timer...Gee! Like me.

[@amiralozse1781]

great instructional videos of yours! Thank you! could you please increase the volumen in future videos - sometimes its rather difficult to listen,bb

[@terryhale9006]

Sound control has definitely proven to be a toughie for me. In the little bit of post-processing I do, I at least try to get the audio level somewhat consistent. Between the GoPro, Canon 5D and narration with a hand-held mike, it's amazing how different the volumes can be.

[@TomBrooklyn]

Nice job Terry.

[@terryhale9006]

Thanks, Tom.

[@cleanerlakes]

Moment? Do you mean movement or momentum?

[@mikefrerichs928]

Moment is a term used in physics and engineering. I can't give you an exact definition (you can look it up in any low-level physics book), but it's similar to what a layman would call leverage. A perfectly vertical tree trunk (imagine one with no branches) has no moment. If you make a horizontal cut through it at the bottom it will still stay standing. A tree that has grown leaning to one side has moment - it is trying to fall over. The farther it is leaning, the more moment it has. If you cut through it, it will fall.

[@cleanerlakes]

Ahh, thanks. Never heard of that before.

[@calebwillhelm2635]

You are a saint good sir

[@sweet65mustang]

I always wonder how those guys that go way up to top trees can even climb with balls the size it takes to do it.

[@terryhale9006]

They do occasionally get in the way, but I'm going to say it's not usually a size issue.

[@scatoutdebutter]

What model saw is that... and bar length? thanks.

[@Human1337]

stihl ms192t, most likely a 14" bar.

[@terryhale9006]

Stihl MS 192 TC with a 13" bar.

[@terryhale9006]

Darn close!

[@Human1337]

>.

[@Human1337]

Big fan of the snap cut, don't understand why I don't see it used more, makes things much easier on the ground guys, able to toss over obstacles/etc....

[@sweet65mustang]

< 2:40 chipmunks going crazy, >2:41 chipmunks silent. What did you do to those poor chipmunks?

[@terryhale9006]

I cussed him out and told him to get his own video camera if he was so sure he had something worthwhile to say.

[@blakefollett]

You had me interested until you called your bar a "Blade"...8:00

[@madsntay5060]

Is this serious

[@madeirafunchal3324]

i dont know what you trying to do..when some one cuts a large tree they dont do what you trying to explain ....you just trying to show off more them what you know ..

[@terryhale9006]

You must be one of Jose's friends. I applaud you for reaching so far beyond the language barrier. I wish I could do nearly as well. What I am trying to do in this video is to provide some interesting insight for people who are curious about these things, but are probably not intending to undertake the activities themselves. Secondarily, I am hoping that a few of the concepts may provide a small labor savings to those who are doing this kind of work. For instance, when chunking down large pieces, it is a lot easier to push the pieces off of an inclined surface, rather than a level surface. Similarly, it is less sawing and less effort to snap a piece off if the snap occurs near one side, rather than in the middle of the piece.

[@jaspermartin7444]

near the end, you keep using a word... "moment". Totally confused. Do you mean "movement" instead? (haha, I mean, since you are an engineer, it is probably not you who is using the wrong word. Just that, I'm not sure what you do mean by that word. Thx for these videos, they are super interesting).

[@terryhale9006]

Hi Jasper. You are correct. "Moment" is the engineering term that includes "torque". Both are the product of a force acting over a distance, like 50 foot-pounds. Moment covers things a bit better, as it also covers the distribution of forces within an object that is being bent. Apologies for the jargon, even if it is official "engineeringese".

[@nathanhess3905]

great videos

[@josedefreitas4194]

tom you are good to explain things but not when comes to do it...you are very dangers man sorry to say it...who is going to do that ? the way you are doing? not me and i work on this for 25 years ..most wrong in everything

[@loadi2865]

YOUR LUCKY TO BE ALIVE? what i seen you do is all wrong ( no 2 trees are alike and the wind)