THE STATE OF PVP IN THE FINAL SHAPE

[@JayKoo-w2s]

Everyone talks about the clones and swarms but fail to mention the OP smoke grenades.

[@adamallen3365]

Forerunner is RUINING TRIALS!! I don’t care what anyone says .. it’ll be the death of this game in PvP if not dealt with

[@alexpino970]

Preach

[@clavi8172]

It's just the special economy and map, not Forerunner. Prismatic Hunter will be the death of PvP if anything. Be realistic.

[@mostrodemare]

I can assure you that if you can master the witch with the blink the hunters are not a huge problem, certainly these are hard times for the titans​@@clavi8172

[@Ballsackeruuuuuu]

@@clavi8172lower the ammo forunner gets

[@lilvix365]

Forerunner has made me think very concering thoughts

[@justinantonio4619]

can we talk abou the absurd amount of flinch lol?

[@scytherind8928]

Apathy is at it's height again. The game is so absurdly stale and uninteresting right now. Either use what's good - or lose. Since MM puts you together with people it *thinks* are on your level, you're forced to play like it's a damn tourney all the time because everyone else is. You can't really warm up because sixes are sweatier than comp or trials. Its clown world. Edit: That came off really whiny. I love D2 and won't stop playing it until the day they shut the servers off. It's just hard to feel passionate about this game right now.

[@Jonny_Nemo]

But you're 100 percent correct !!

[@BIGMATT513]

I just cant get a decent run of matches. i get completely beat down by multiple fireteams against me on 6s playlists, and will lose four or five matches before i get a halfway decent team with me. completely irritating. matchmaking isnt what it used to be...

[@derekjay.s]

Dude same😩 im finding myself turning off the game after those first 3-4 matches of having the WORST teammates. I am totally fine with losing a game but its a complete STOMP fest for my ENTIRE team…….really?? How come I cant get put on a team that DOES the stomping??? I would say that happens 1/10 matches now, MAYBE 2

[@daythemilfslayer]

@@BIGMATT513 ohhh I see why ur hoping d2 is done😂😂skill issue, u might be gettin too old lil bro

[@vindeta360]

All 100% correct. And storms edge really is 3 thundercrashes. It's REALLY hot.

[@Bryan-be9eq]

Can we also mention tht busted warlock lightning surge ability which you can do twice and has a big Aoe

[@nirifer7275]

I pretty much agree with everything. It's very easy to overwhelm someone with hunter abilities, and I really don't know what happened to checkmate modifiers. I feel like most were enjoying checkmate but then they rolled it back until all we have now is a barely noticeable 15% on ability cool downs.

[@brandonray8788]

Forerunner just needs to be turned into a 4 shot headshot primary, it will have a faster ttk than a 180 hand cannon but improved range as long as you are accurate.

[@KW25095]

Watching the LAN tourni made me so sad cause the biggest tournament has swarms and clones with a stacked team like boy nirvous and red then the other teams seemed to be at such a huge disadvantage with teammates and team comp and the sweat business match was wild

[@justinantonio4619]

lol they could have just disabled abilities lol. it is in the game for a reason

[@iamglooo]

please use periods in your sentences jesus christ

[@Mr_Ruhl]

​@@justinantonio4619 there needs to be a healthy amount though, not having an ability for every single engagement feels a lot better.

[@TeamSevenStar]

Reading this gave me cancer

[@emreakarsu4554]

As a former pvp main who made to max rank in comp and also 10000 comp pts in season 23 i knew that prismatic would ruin pvp for good but even i didnt expect it to be this bad.Thank God i did everything i wanted in pvp before prismatic existed.

[@Mr-R.R.]

Important correction, it was initially 30%, but the final itteration we got on march 5th was 15% becuase people really didn't like how long it took their abilities to come back at 50% (original checkmate) or 30% reduction. Also gotta keep in mind that we very much got used to the 15% from all these months and don't really feel or remember what it was like before. With prismatic, that's how it would have felt like pre march 5th without any reduction. So imo they gotta bring it back to 30% or higher to rebalance with the introduction of prismatic.

[@thrower_2REAL]

@@Mr-R.R. thanks for the info, we definitely need the original cooldown increases

[@connorsarkissian3095]

Or just nerf prism cooldowns specifically might also be a good idea.

[@Mr-R.R.]

@@connorsarkissian3095 I PROMISE you that when prism hunter gets nerfed, titan prism will be eating good and cause another round of raging from people. the cooldowns needs to affect everything (some more than others, sure) so that the game overall doesn't feel oppressive with ability spam regardless of what subclass you use. This is why OG checkmate felt so good in terms of abilities. Doesn't matter what you were running, the oppression was 30-50% less.

[@connorsarkissian3095]

@@Mr-R.R. you’re absolutely right I’m down for original checkmate. And something needs to be addressed next episode cause the current sandbox is pretty bland from a subclass diversity perspective.

[@fiftytwo_ny]

As an avid pvp player (18.5k this season) and solar warlock main i agree with everything you brought up. Another issue i have with pris hunter is the super hits people through cover a ton. I feel like pris shouldn't be just flat out better than the light subclasses but rather as an alternative .

[@guitavares85]

6:14 Finally someone said it. I'm not surprised so many KZbinrs are leaving PVP.

[@ninetysicks]

My only personal request as a D1 HC main is that 140s need a buff. Every other weapon type and sub-types have their place and can hang. They all have easy to hit TTKs and perks that allow forgiveness except 140s. With the healing, over shields, evading, hiding, clones, smokes, etc., they don’t stand a chance. I don’t want to use a 340 pulse to compete in trials, let alone 6s. They should hit 85 to the head and slightly more to the body IMO. Abilities just need to be toned down again, even if it’s just a cooldown nerf. Everyone starts every engagement with 3-5 abilities, literally use them all to get a kill and run away if they don’t get a kill. It’s so exhausting as someone who wants to use a primary first. Maybe it’s my own fault for being stubborn and playing “my way” instead of clinging to the meta. I think no matter what meta there is, primary weapons should always prevail.

[@Jonny_Nemo]

HCs just get left to their own devices.. Oh, you'll be ok !

[@klubbs617]

I was literally getting sandwiched by abilities this weekend.

[@quisquous]

Thanks for the information. Now I specifically understand why I have been getting clapped by prismatic hunter. I own a couple dlcs but don’t have final shape yet and use what I can use. I hope they don’t nerf the arc features of it before I try it.

[@Sohelanthropus]

Ignoring meta stuff, PvP also feels very bland in the sense that they haven't innovated AT ALL the core experience It's still just 6v6, like in D1, it's still just simple gamemodes, the maps are still very simple (what happened to maps that had fun quirks like teleportes or mancannos etc?) Bungie should've already done a 10v10 gamemode with new vehicles, weapon pick ups unique to PvP - or an infection game mode with maps that involve insane jumping and parkour areas 6v6 control and 3v3 elim/dom has gotten, really, really damn old man..

[@Jonny_Nemo]

Ximmers paradise, dwindling player base, mostly sweats, Elsie's and Iggy with PI ruling, spamming Prism Hunters.. the game is dead.

[@fiftytwo_ny]

​@GhostRider92-t4uXim will not get you banned

[@JayKoo-w2s]

@GhostRider92-t4uyou know NOTHING about the game. XIM isn’t banned on destiny idiot. Don’t try to preach when you don’t know shit lmaoooo

[@Jonny_Nemo]

@@fiftytwo_ny That's the problem. Cheats everywhere. If Bungie banned them, they'd lose half their player base. So we get screwed over.

[@JulioGarcia-pm1oh]

i was preaching this to my homie the other day too. How is storms edge and twightlight arsenal a 8:20 super cooldown but they almost act like roaming supers and a better thundercrash but thundercrash is a 9:16 super cooldown????? Like where is the logic behind that. Either bring thundercrash cooldown down or bring those 2 supers up to 9:16.

[@Mr_Eyes]

Imo the issue isn't just with cooldown times, it's that the "buildcrafting" that they've been pushing since 3.0 has near zero drawbacks. If you want your dodge to do 4 extra things for free (eg: wormhusk+slow dodge+clone+melee refresh), it should have a longer cooldown than my dodge on solar hunter that just activates the handling buff and refreshes a melee. The Athrys throwing knife literally has more uptime than a normal weighted knife while being objectively broken. The checkmate meta would just be dawn warlocks on ember of benevolence and 120/shotgun. I liked the ammo meter but it really does favor shotguns. PVP needs sweeping nerfs to primaries, specials, and abilities to be good again.

[@J0Nramirez]

As Hunter main, lemme tell ya, we need to be nerfed. I know it's our time in the sun but brother this is too much. My fixes for Prismatic Hunter: -Remove Threaded Spector and replace it with Ensnaring Slam (PvP viability for the class maintained) -Additionally: Remove clone radar ping. -Remove Swarm grenade and replace it with Trip mine (more tactical) -Reduce radius of new Arc Super (less through walls) -Additionally: Increase active super time but change the super cool down to 8:30 -Reduce smoke bomb effective radius.

[@MingxiaTW]

As a hunter main, I agree 100%

[@antimatics759]

They probably won't replace the aspect because pve people will be affected. Otherwise all the points would be valid. The arc super is good and not good at the same time. They need to remove how it lunges towards people (which gives it a much larger radius) like the hunter will tp a bit towards you before doing the swipe.

[@J0Nramirez]

@@antimatics759 oh I didn't know the super lunged. That's wonky. Hopefully they address it. As for the aspect, I'm going to be honest, I ran the clone aspect once in PvE since The Final Shape launched and took it off immediately as it felt useless. What I would tell Bungie is that I would rather have an Ensnaring Slam for PvE as it can affect champions really well.

[@derekjay.s]

Woah buddy lets slow down there lol

[@LazerMonarch]

Bungie probably thought "yeah this hunter ability set seems fine for pvp, also throw in a super that is basically 3 thunder crashes. That'll get the players back"

[@doriandorweiler3503]

Ive always been a hunter main and i agree checkmate trials is the way to go less ability spam and the special ammo bar made actual gun fights how they needed to be

[@nill8589]

Gotta adjust the noise gate on your mic bro, it's swallowing 25% of what you're saying

[@alteration2198]

Nah we need the og meter system back with the increased abilities cooldowns. You can tell who had good primary skill and who just relied on special with that checkmate system. Did the snowballing get out of hand? Sure but honesty they EARNED their special by engaging in fights But of course, Bungie caters towards the blueberries who can’t get a primary kill to save their lives claiming “we can’t keep up” or whatever bs excuse they come up with.

[@thrower_2REAL]

I really liked the old meter system, but I understand why not everyone likes it. There should be some sort of compromise between the old meter and system we have now

[@DylanJamesGolf]

Let us NOT spawn with special but have the ammo meter as per usual, but allow us to grab the ammo crate off spawn. That’s better in my opinion than what it was before and what it is now.

[@domoromo2623]

I'll stand on this hill till I die, titan smg meta wasn't that bad. People played aggressive and actually moved. They just needed to nerf well and bubble. No one moves now. When they do, wombo combo and run.

[@sgt.hugostiglitz9838]

I’ve taken a break. I love the Destiny world but am burnt out

[@SKel-xh2kl]

I believe the hard decline has continued very quickly after people finished TFS campaign which is crazy considering the amount of new things added. That speaks volumes about people being done with the game. Lobbies are filled with same people who eventually all switch to Elsies rifle or SMG as it gets sweatier and sweatier. Bungie cant save this. Its 2024 and we are playing a game that is not being balanced for PvP with terrible latency, it cant continue. And lets be honest, the player base of Destiny looks for the easiest things to dominate with while putting in the least possible amount of effort. People are crouched with scouts/pulses/autos all game in one spot just waiting. These same people are killing the game as much as Bungie. Low risk high reward weapons/abilities are the death of pvp.

[@yol_n]

Technically twilight arsenal is also 3 nova bombs and with prismatic you get a diamond lance with a shoulder charge but prismatic hunter is so stupid it makes people forget about all the other things 😂

[@thrower_2REAL]

@@yol_n yeah it’s not like the other prismatic classes aren’t good

[@afri2n]

@@thrower_2REALi think warlock is the most balanced subclass, it really comes down to your gunskill on that class. you just get to use a few good tools from the other subclasses as a cherry on top. i really wish we had got icarus dash though 😔✊

[@darijobakota8062]

Other classes cant come close to prismatic hunter unfortunately, speaking as a titan main, titans should have got the best melee ability because they always were the most melee focused class, but no Bungie nerfed the fuck out of titans abilitys, i was ok with overshield nerf and bubble nerf, but man why did they have to nerf arc titan and thundercrash super, they just buried sun warrior and for what, for that stupid helmet loreley splendor they didnt know how to balance and the easiest way was to just kill the whole subclass, again as a titan main they need to fix things in pvp especially for the titans, we need a really good buff to even stand a chance against the cancer that is prismatic hunter right now

[@yol_n]

@@darijobakota8062 the only reason everyone is not mad at you is because everyone is mad at prismatic hunters, 3 nova bombs with the prismatic kit and with a shoulder charge that can spawn diamond lances IS stupid and you'll probably get nerfed as well when the big nerf happens.

[@marcusb553]

@@afri2ntriple electric slide with a helion is dumb. The rest of warlock kit , I agree with 100.

[@yoitsromani1789]

I have the god roll hunter class item(even though I mainly play warlock) but that thing is so broken 2 strand clones you can spam back to back you escape death nearly every time and dodge comes back frequently makes it’s disgusting

[@scottparrott5674]

Doesn’t really matter at this point. Hunter gets nerfed more it’s just gonna be solar warlocks instead of void titans or void titans with overshields peacekeepers and shayuras maybe lol with the new super. Can get kills with it then pick up the axes and get more kills lol. Games too chaulked to fix.

[@lilvix365]

I miss checkmate rules so much :(

[@Max1497-qt1kv]

sixth coyote is nerfed on the class item cus regular sixth coyote has built in resper

[@dahlhausxxii7994]

Storms edge being a lower cooldown super, combined with swarm grenades, smokes and clones that manipulate radar, is to much

[@-Benja]

I played trials for first time in about a year and i was getting death threats or insults from my team mates after every match lol🤣

[@leeroy2752]

Honestly rather than just increasing abilities cooldown more, I'd rather bungie do what they did during the 30th anniversary, and tune the cooldown of each ability separately. Also they need to give something like Pyrogale burning maul a cooldown nerf if they are changing it to a one-and-done super.

[@Redacted_762]

Hunters got the best in pve AND pvp. Warlocks decent. Titans...well titans.

[@CK46263]

Thrower bro I didn't watch the whole video so idk if u addressed this but some of shit in solo trials is ridiculous. I was on my flawless game with no mercies left (solo.) we in the first round, and then someone on my teams dc's. No loss protection, we're now basically guaranteed to lose and my card is toasted. Isn't that ridiculous?

[@thrower_2REAL]

@@CK46263 that’s happened to me as well, the loss protection should be more forgiving

[@CK46263]

@@thrower_2REAL yeah like they should make it so if someone leaves in a solo que match only, the ppl on their team should get protection. I get why they don't go that for trios and duos bc ppl can just leave, rejoin and get passage protection for their team.

[@deanthornton6670]

The problem is hunter ability spam so strong with a single dodge the balance has not been judged well at all with prismatic warlock doing 3 lighting surge in a row also the game sucks atm and your 100% correct with all u said

[@jakecarter1132]

had some fair honest points ngl

[@brandona9326]

For as good as the gunplay is, it feels like abilities are just too much and too strong.

[@kelvinhernandez4714]

Annoyed AF with pris hunter. Faced a full team of Pris Hunters, they win and had the nerve to gloat when it was just smoke nades and clones doing most of the work. Even switched to solar class to use scatter nades and even that is useless bc they just bring out a clone and have that take the hits 😑 this I believe this is the biggest reason why there's a huge fall off in the PvP player base. Even I don't play D2 like I used to bc it's gonna be the same games over and over. I even noticed come content creators have slowed on uploads bc why bother if it's repetitive game play? Smoke, Scatter, and Clones. 🙄 Also it feels like Storms Edge was buffed bc I swear it was much easier to dodge that super on release that it is now.

[@LazerMonarch]

Is this the first time we're hearing the goat's voice ?

[@thrower_2REAL]

Ive had a couple videos of me talking

[@95VR407FA5]

Damn tell me you're not a thrower fan without telling me. 😢

[@Noah-pv7ty]

Can we also talk about how the last year shotguns have made up a minimum of 10% of all trials kills on any given weekend? The special system does not matter, they ALWAYS outperform other special archetypes. They are blatantly busted and need a nerf.

[@thrower_2REAL]

@@Noah-pv7ty I think the reason that shotguns always have higher kill percentages is because they don’t waste ammo. How would you want shotguns to be changed if it were up to you?

[@Noah-pv7ty]

@@thrower_2REAL I think a big handling nerf is necessary, especially for precision frames. You can have someone dead to rights with a sidearm/smg, but they can slide 6m and map you with a shotty in less than a second for a trade or a kill. A handling nerf would solve that.

[@heftyanteater]

Honestly, the entire pvp is just not a good time. I wish the the game was good but there's a reason they lose all their players as soon as they gain them.

[@MAGAdoriya]

Bungie needs to give all classes movement. Hunter's will always be the best in pvp because of dodge and dive!

[@izsrael]

Nerf pris hunter!!!

[@guitavares85]

@GhostRider92-t4u Again?

[@izsrael]

@GhostRider92-t4u they already nerfed them what else you want them to nerf lmao

[@izsrael]

@GhostRider92-t4u majority use bubble? Titans are at 17% usage rate and from that 17 percent 3.8 are using bubble but with hunters at a 54 % with 44.5 % are pris hunter in trials what really needs to be nerfed

[@izsrael]

@GhostRider92-t4u bro you sound delusional what is your bungie name & number at the end of it

[@izsrael]

@GhostRider92-t4u I can just tell your a 1kd player if that

[@alexteap3115]

Hi THROWER

[@harryHanson2708]

I was lucky to be carried all the way through to flawless by 5.0kds randoms

[@cirrus404]

W thrower

[@TwujZiomo554]

I would like to back to lorentz meta it was way more fun to play than this hsit right now... I hope bungie gonna nerf hunters to the ground

[@Xivuarath-p4o]

i just dont understand why they spend all the resources changing the game to checkm8. most people loved it and they backtrack to have the same amount of special as before. also prism hunter needs to be gutted. not nerfed but absolutely nuked. nerf the super and tier of the super. longer hunter dodge cooldown. 2 , max 3 dodges per round is insane to me. and bring back checkm8 for more primary duels and ill be happy

[@isoliryc7190]

Thrower talking whattt

[@josephtedesco1582]

It's not a rant when you are telling the truth! After all the layoffs Bungie isn't going to anything. The game is dieing of 1000 paper cuts.

[@aaroncunningham1121]

They've already nerfed threaded spector and swarm nades in pvp.

[@maxwilliams3922]

Still doesn’t account for constant clone uptime, radar pings EVERYWHERE, ability to spam wombo combo constantly with class item and a super that’s basically 3 thundercrashes that teleport across the map to your location and have massive aoe

[@emmanuelespinoza8233]

It's a dead game, so it's obviously bad at this point and will get even worst.

[@Guardian1337-q5b]

Dude get ur mic fixed

[@piratesprayer]

Quit crying. Hunters for ever

[@Erowid13]

imagine still playing destiny lmao