The State Of Smash Ultimate

[@NocturnalFudj]

Max Ketchum: twitter.com/MaxKetchum_ www.twitch.tv/maxketchum Captain L: twitter.com/captainlsheikah Riddles: twitter.com/Riddlesmk www.twitch.tv/riddlesmk Can you believe I made a 58 minute video and didn't even talk about spotdodge cancelling once? Me neither

[@ginko2692]

48:59 Max Ketchum makes an incredible point here. Also, excellent video fudj. Top notch content as always.

[@thatguyGuswho]

What's the music that starts at 45:17? (I'm asking the question here because I'm not sure if you'll see it if it's just a regular comment)

[@Jay-vn7mq]

Melee has no buffer, only it’s defensive options do, shield, spot dodge etc. You are not buffer a frame perfect full hop aerial.

[@lambchu6459]

@@winstonmcabee9428 Melee fox can hurt peples hands because melee fox is the most button intensive character of any smash game. Im talking 600+ APM for some play styles. If you grind nonstop a game with that sort of APM on a regular controller, youll need to take regular breaks or suffer the consequences. That doesnt make the game any worse. Thats like saying Cycling/Basketball/Soccer/Football is sh1t because only the elite can do it and they can only do it till a certain age.

[@gibraltar4841]

👻

[@nocturnaloop]

It always annoys me when people say "you're just biased" as a counter argument because like....that's what an opinion is? There's no such thing as an unbiased opinion-based argument

[@Gatchu137]

I think a lot of those people just don't have the ability to vocalize what they're thinking properly. Obviously any argument will be biased, but what they probably mean is that it feels like his arguments are ignoring problems in previous games, or are blowing certain things out of proportion. I think the "bias" refers to him holding the games to different levels of scrutiny, or using an inherent dislike as the foundation to look for things to make into problems.

[@AK46supr]

Biased can most definitely be a good counter argument. It depends. Theres bias when you completely over blow negative things in something you dont favor and ignore or minimize cons in what you favor to make it *SEEM* better and vastly overblow the positives in what you like. Thats unfair bias- especially when your trying to make an *objective* claim. Thats what i think most mean when it's stated like that in the comment sections

[@Gatchu137]

@@asimhussain8716 Do you seriously think that people don't look for reasons to justify opinions that they've already made? I've personally done it on many occasions, and so has literally everyone else, so I know you're talking out of your ass, saying that it's not a thing. There are shows that I don't like, and plenty of reasons why I dislike them, but there are also instances where I'll shit on the show for something, and then realize that I'll completely ignore that same thing when it's in a show I enjoy. Like, what the fuck do you mean "that's an easy excuse"? It's a commonly observed psychological reaction. That's the reason why any review website with a rating system will always fluctuate between ratings of 10/10 or 1/10. Nothing ever scores a 5/10 because people will always look for things to like or dislike, in order to justify the way they feel. And here I thought I framed my initial comment in a pretty unassuming, reasonable manner, but you still felt the need to deny the existence of a common form of review bias. If you had argued that Fudj didn't have that kind of bias, I'd respect that, but you tried to argue that IT DIDN'T EXIST. Like actually take your nonsense somewhere else.

[@Gatchu137]

@@asimhussain8716 Ok, so as a counterpoint, why did he talk about the Greninja combos, and how they're so difficult because they go against the way the controls function? The Greninja combos aren't something that was necessarily intended for the players to do, but good players created these combos, because they're going to use everything necessary to win. They were MADE under the assumption that they require you to fight the buffer system, because they're player-made combos. By that same metric, Melee has a long history of leaving permanent damage on players' hands, due to the intense strain of certain inputs. Inputs which, similarly, were not intended to be performed by the game devs, but were pioneered by players. This is a straightforward example of him finding a problem in this game, when that thing has been in every previous entry in some capacity, and usually in greater amounts.

[@Gatchu137]

@@asimhussain8716 Yeah, and another common argumentative fallacy is to spin someone's argument into meaning something they aren't saying. The simple fix to rage in Sm4sh was to simply remove rage. The simple fix to tripping in Brawl is to remove tripping. The ease with which a solution could be created for said issue, is not an issue in itself. "Countering with general similarity is not an argument" I love how you're so eager to misconstrue and oversimplify MY argument, then completely misquote it. First off, my argument was that, in the case of Greninja's combos, players will literally always fight the controls IF it presents them with an advantage of some sort. And they have in every smash game prior, and in most complex fighting games. He cites Greninja as a product of flawed competitive game design, to which my response was that the very nature of developing a competitive character will involve pushing past the game's intentions. But thank you for dumbing that down into "old games controls were hard". Like Esam said, Fudj is trying to analyze Ultimate in a competitive light, but by his own admittance, was never actively involved with the competitive aspect of Ultimate. Fudj then shifts his objective to "analysis of Ultimate from a game design perspective", where he talks about accessibility options that will only affect competitive players, when competitive players don't care about how difficult an input is to perform. And in this case, Fudj is actively comparing Ultimate to previous entries. If this were the only smash game, would the auto short-hop be seen as an issue if it was the only thing we had exposure to? A lot of his argument is based in how this game's controls are inconsistent with the rest of the franchise, and you're trying to act like comparing the input difficulty between games is sacrilege.

[@kangdide]

Man, sonic is one of those charecters I wish was added in smash 4 so he could have a fun and interesting moveset that isn't just spinning as a ball

[@Gatchu137]

I really think Mario, DK, Kirby, and Sonic should've all gotten a reworking, like Link did.

[@tjh6678]

@@Gatchu137 Ditto. For one thing, I'd love to see them (Mario & DK in particular) with similar fluid, expressive animation as Banjo & Kazooie. The bear & bird have spoiled me on that front...

[@Gatchu137]

@@tjh6678 I think it's crazy that Mario's dair is a tornado spin, and his down-b is fludd, but there's no ground-pound move. And between the original Donkey Kong arcade game, and DK Country, DK himself doesn't have a single move that incorporates barrels. Like, a lot of the original Smash 64 characters have obviously never been updated, because their kits hardly reflect their games.

[@austingoyne3039]

Ganon is the most painfully lacking for me. My favorite Nintendo villain is still essentially a C Falcon clone

[@daeryk6424]

@@Gatchu137 Not really.

[@imESAM]

i don't check who follows me on twitter lol

[@KazeShikamaru]

Rip

[@zeromythosver.]

I think he just didn’t want you to get the wrong impression had you noticed

[@yeagmatic]

esam escaped the boxing ring???

[@FinallyAlone]

(X) doubt

[@salsashark4133]

You don't even play samus, get that pfp outta here

[@Casual_PKBeats]

When it comes to KZbin comments and Twitter, I've grown used to just categorizing most of the "critiques" as intentionally hollow for the sake of comedy/being a dick, so I rarely ever acknowledge them. But I do have to say, you tackling them at the beginning of the video like you did was really cathartic lol Also, I used to play Smash super competitively in Smash 4, but this game totally stopped me from doing that. I just had way less fun for so many reasons -- horrible internet/buffer is one, but the generally clunky/unfun controls was just really big. Didn't see much of a reason to force myself to play a game I didn't enjoy, so I found another way to enjoy it, but generally, I really like this video, I totally agree with how its design is just terrible and unfun for me, and it's a damn shame too considering how amazing everything else is. I personally miss perfect pivoting and footstool combos the most, as I felt they added some really interesting depth to the game as a whole, but yeah, the game just gutted so many aspects I loved so much and left us with jousting lmfao

[@ryusoulger9127]

Least you have the brain to not play a game you personally just don't enjoy, I feel most people who play Ultimate competitively or whatever force themselves to play even if they aren't having fun and that's just a huge problem for any game.

[@jyke321]

@@asimhussain8716 My first smash game was brawl so at first when I started playing smash4 I felt something was off, but the difference between how smash4 and ultimate was actually jarring. Looking back smash4 wasn’t a big of a problem (I often viewed the game as a party game) but ultimate buffer system still annoys me. I like rolling a lot, I know it’s not a good option, but it’s strange to me that you have to roll before an attack comes your way, otherwise you get hit because your shield drops before the roll takes effect...

[@jyke321]

@@asimhussain8716 I agree with that, there have been plenty of times I forgot you can't run past people in ultimate

[@chrisdivodi9291]

@@asimhussain8716 The running part your opponent mechanic was so damn fun in Smash 4. It enabled some pretty interesting mixups and mind games that Ultimate lacks imo.

[@sspectre8217]

Chrisdi Vodi that baffles me, in smash 4 I loved pivot grabbing. Actually I just really enjoyed grabbing people in smash 4, I basically turned most characters I to grapplers but in ultimate it’s so much harder to do that and other cool playstyles. If you compare my best character from smash 4 to ultimate and how I play them, smash 4 was super hype. I adored playing Mewtwo, I had some awesome clips playing against my friends. I did cool combos and kill confirms. In ultimate my best character is Piranha Plant, I love the character but my play style with it is so damn lame. I intentionally play other characters before PP to keep things interesting.

[@Neogears1312]

Every time I genuinely try to give this game a chance all it does is make me miserably. It’s like an empty mansion. Sure it’s impressive and I respect the people who made it for their achievements but there’s nothing of value here and everything just sorta feels the same so it’s size doesn’t even matter in the end.

[@demigod5598]

So trueeeee

[@biivamunner3122]

Same casually? Just wondering

[@imESAM]

ALSO very good video

[@NocturnalFudj]

Thank you! Much appreciated :)

[@giantclaw138]

Shivering Erotic King Banana

[@willy.b2419]

Waluigi for Smash!

[@sakuyaizayoi2441]

ESAM 0W0

[@lilraph2345]

Big man

[@perry-1572]

Hi, PerryPorkchoP here. As one of two Min Min fans and self-proclaimed high lord of the Noodle Girl, I pray that you did not insult Min Min. If you did, I’ll write you a strongly worded twitlonger telling you that you hurt my feelings. Awesome work as always though Fudj. Fun to see you get back into the Ultimate discussion. Looking forward to the next critically acclaimed Deview! Edit: The top patron list has gotten so big! Really happy to see you getting all this financial support.

[@beansael2454]

Min min is cool

[@-bemyvalentine-]

Hello there! I'm the other Min Min fan! Good to see us reunited here.

[@perry-1572]

@@-bemyvalentine- i’m glad to have finally met you. We can now rapidly switch arms together.

[@perry-1572]

@Lick Tasty you do not think as noodle. You just sit there loosely in the liquid like a noodle would. That’s how you win

[@perry-1572]

@@beansael2454 very cool. Thank you.

[@riddlesmk]

Amazing video, thank you for having me!

[@NocturnalFudj]

Thank you for being a part of it! Now power dunk the shit outta some people when offline comes back my boy

[@DumbIdeaPresentedStupidly]

Are we not gonna talk about how annoying that X/Y do not change the skin and start dose not go pass end screen. Who played Melee/Brawl/4 and thought 'oh that needs to go in the next one'

[@ericwitney5086]

The X/Y thing now toggles PT/echo fighters. Why they couldnt put that on the bumpers is beyond me

[@Kapow59]

If your screen seperates the echoes, then X/Y DO change skins.

[@rosaparks6479]

Whats wrong with the bumpers changing skins?

[@Lysuko]

"Most Persona fans haven't even heard 1000 songs" as a Persona fan that was hilarious lmao

[@PokePhan]

Just listened to some “Jazz”, it had some crazy persona vibes

[@lightbrand_]

I didn’t get the joke ;-;

[@grotto185]

@@lightbrand_ the joke is that Persona fans only listen to Persona music

[@grotto185]

@Smash 456 I have no idea why that is

[@Lysuko]

@Mathijs Hoek what?

[@TC-cx4gm]

Fudj throwing shade at Persona fans is opening a can of worms I’m not sure I want to see in these comments

[@zeromythosver.]

Gotta be one of the spammiest fanbases I’ve seen in gaming Game looks good, I’ve wanted to try it since before it even released, but the fanbase (and console exclusivity) has really killed my interest over the years

[@alejandrobarajas6078]

Persona fans are lowkey as bad or even worse than Sonic fans to me at this point. They made me sick of a game series I only beat one game of.

[@aguchamp7766]

Outsider looking in: I think Smash was the worst thing to happen to the Persona community

[@alejandrobarajas6078]

@@aguchamp7766 it baffles me too since the game isn't even on the switch. Most of the toxic fans are ones that only care (probably never played it either)about 5 and disregard 3 and 4 which I actually found to be more enjoyable than 5 tbh

[@alejandrobarajas6078]

@@koitern8785 your absolutely right, those games are very different in tone to the rest of the series being closer to SMT than P3,4,5

[@jjrambles683]

I can honestly deal with the buffer system. It's the input lag combined with online lag that bothers me the worst.

[@intothevoid3605]

This is why I couldn’t get into Ultimate and stuck to Melee. In an ideal world I’d play both because I do like the game offline, but playing this shit online sucks. How ridicilous is it that ONE GUY provides a better online experience in Melee than Ultimate when the latter has a whole ass multi billion company working on it smh.

[@crazyarceus4617]

worst part about online is that WE PAY FOR THIS

[@alejandrocavazos4589]

Damn straight, man. And the fans have no way of protesting to this without getting penalized in some way, to even legal manners. Yuzu? Has to load the whole game, slippy? Ceise and desist, any sort of free WiFi with mods? No more switch or the danger of losing it. Either way, the fans lose... 😕

[@calebb7012]

I stopped paying for it. There's no point if it isn't playable. 3ds smash online is still free, and still active; and is laughably better than Switch's connectivity.

[@WorKSimi]

20 bucks a year for 20 year old servers

[@WorKSimi]

@@dwt_offline7119 yeah like Xbox live was more expensive but atleast it worked

[@daeryk6424]

But will still be bought anyway...

[@Amaling]

At this point, I’m just done with taking Ultimate seriously. It’s an awesome casual game and made a ridiculous amounts of money, we’ve all realized the tourney stuff was all a sham now. Melee is already a perfect competitive platform fighter game in melee, the graphics have aged well, the online is better, the mods are rising up. Why don’t we all just vibe to melee at this point?

[@realkingofantarctica]

I like the state that Smash Ultimate is in as of now (for the most part). Too bad I can barely see that state because the online lags too much for it to be barely playable.

[@Skapes11238]

I've given up online. The lag makes normally good di not happen because of input latency, you cannot combo against wifi timmy's but they can combo you because they are so used to a garbage connection, cheesy strats that I can easily avoid offline become godlike online (looking at you samus' that only dash attack, roll and missle). I'm done with it. It's an embarrassment of an online game. Oh and if anyone thinks wifi tournament results matter, you're a dipshit.

[@fatormabolay847]

@@Skapes11238 facts man

[@D.Zerius]

@@Skapes11238 correct. Spitting facts people dont wanna hear becuz they have head up their ass.

[@MrIcenice44]

when he mentioned footstool combos being gone, I got happy all over again

[@Worick_]

@@Skapes11238 Generally if you’re better than someone you’ll win online or offline. All I hear is Johns lol

[@cloudfinraptor]

Potent Quotable: "Getting used to bad design doesn't stop it from being bad design" 26:18

[@dedley0829]

Wow no wonder Ridley's not fun to play: the buffer system tends to fuck with his combos often and demands frame perfect dashes in order to extend the grab combo to a 40 or 60

[@sephikong8323]

That's what I've experienced myself. I don't own the game but when I go play with my friends, I main Ridley and I have a lot of fun in local multiplayer, he is fundamentally fun to play, but when we go online I suddenly hate playing as him, everything feels so wrong, I try to do a recovery yet I go under the stage instead of going at the ledge, I try to back throw back air but instead I somehow up throw ......... TL;DR now when I'll go play with him, if we do online I'll pick Dark Samus or something, have had a better time with it online

[@dercs2075]

Lol ridley combos are EZ

[@yammez1]

As a player of games that have incredibly low input lag on purpose. High input lag in any video game is an instant fun killer.

[@carlostaffanelly418]

I just hope smash ultimate doesn't have the same base problem the Elder Scrolls series has: the input speed is tied to framerate. In skyrim, if your FPS dips below 45, your input lags worse and worse in an exponential manner

[@yammez1]

@@carlostaffanelly418 Yup when games drop frames it makes the input lag longer. It make the input lag from 1/6 a second to 1/4 a second. Which is a long ass time.

[@carlostaffanelly418]

@@yammez1 yo that suuuucks, especially if it's because of the latent input lag switches have. Elder Scrolls input lag is only caused by the game engine BethSoft uses, I would hate having it in every game I play

[@yammez1]

@@carlostaffanelly418 Oh wait I wasn't concentrating on what you said lol. But yes, input lag is based on frames. This is why people buy monitors with higher refresh/frame rates. >6 frames input lag on a 60Hz monitor = 1/10 second input lag. >6 frames input lag on a 240Hz monitor = 1/40 second input lag.

[@yammez1]

@@carlostaffanelly418 Also for the lag. I actually haven't played my switch on the dock for quite a while but I think I do notice it. Especially when playing Hades and Hyrule Warriors.

[@7ru7h0n3s7yf0r3v3r]

"Smash Ultimate doesn't fail as a fighting game, it fails as a platformer." - Sonix (Smash Ult player)

[@Fightzpike]

this quote opened my eyes so hard

[@plaguedfrost1753]

With this buffer...? If smash wasn’t a platformer, I honestly doubt it would’ve beeb played for this long... (Not to ruin the quote, that shit was awesome...)

[@mechamobu777]

You mean professional at running away for 8 minutes

[@JustDarkFire]

@@mechamobu777 He was only able to do that because the game failed as a platformer.

[@chazzilla8919]

I hard agree

[@emanchi8403]

It’s pretty frustrating having to constantly fight my controller to get the right output. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve self-destructed in this game. It rarely ever happened to me in smash4 but now it’s like a normal occurrence every 3 or so games.

[@emanchi8403]

Or it could be the awful online combined with lag and input delay when I’m recovering.

[@Nightwalker86]

I'm a PM / P+ developer and I love your critiques. I barely play ultimate but I'm also quite critical of bad game design (including my own balance work). Let me know if you ever want to talk about it further.

[@Cheesehead302]

Man, as someone who recently started playing Melee online after getting a little bored with Ultimate, this videos were really informative. I may not 100% understand melee's ground mechanics and what not (which is why I've been using Puff lol), but I've been able to deduce that you have complete control over your character in Melee. The lack of buffer is weird to get used, but once you do I have NEVER done an input that caused something weird to happen that I haven't expected. Of course, Melee has some weird ass glitches that can happen upon actually preforming actions, but as far as initiating those actions never once have I like air dodged off the side of the stage without it actually being due to an input error from me. Also just a personal note, another mechanic in Ulti I don't hear many people talking about is how when you land, your character to will change to the direction that you're holding. Technically, it works like its intended but to me personally coming off every other game and not using the C stick for directional attacks, it's really hard for me to get used to. Consistently using back airs is almost impossible for me, because I'll end up turning around and fairing instead. It's one of the reasons I'm so terrible with Falcon in this game compared to Sm4sh.

[@Radar_of_the_Stars]

Smash Ultimate isn't in a state, it's Japanese, it's in a prefecture

[@xX_wiLLiam_Xx]

Funny

[@phillipanselmo8540]

isn't it the same thing?

[@sheridan5175]

What?

[@desamster]

And with the shinkansen, it can move to another prefecture pretty quickly.

[@carolinasleeper4484]

video debunked

[@killercore007]

The lack of landing lag is probably the biggest thing dragging down the game gameplay wise, as it mainly makes neutral “mash aerials like a 2 year old” until you get a hit. It also makes swordies a much lazier concept due to how busted disjoints are in the game, and gives zoners more ability to pressure outside of projectiles than is deserved.

[@dxqx3794]

You make a good point about the mechanics being a detriment to the audience. As a fighting game player for 15+ years I still find Smash intimidating to watch, I can't imagine for a newcomer how it feels. Tekken, KOF, SF, literally any other scene I can jump right back into, learn a few terms, and boom I understand what's going on. Smash gives me nervous sweats still and I've been playing since 64. I've also noticed Smash competitive players rarely play in other fighting game scenes. I don't think it's because they inherently find the games uninteresting, rather their skillset is mismatched to the games. If you practice all these particular timings and button combinations that are game specific of course other games are going to be hard. This fails the players, the viewers, and the game. All the way down the line for the reasoning of "well...because". Fundamentals don't carry over to other fighting games and that is a huge problem.

[@KingLeone201]

Yeah, for the amount of time I invested into trying to get better at smash, I cannot get even close to that same amount of time on other fighters because of the mismatch of skillset. It is super frustrating and stops me from enjoying other fighting games as much because my mind is farther ahead than my fingers are lol. Edit: a word

[@toowiggly]

I like how smash feels different to other fighting games. I feel that so many fighting games are very similar and lack variety. Like you said, you can jump from one to another by learning the slight differences easily. I appreciate games like smash and arms because of how unique they are while also having the fundamentals like the attack-shield-grab dynamic. I would like to see someone make a top down fighting game, as I don't think that whole dimension has been explored much.

[@salsashark4133]

I do agree that most Smash machanics do not carry to other games. I feel the need to point out, though, that some things like spacing, fighting grapplers, super armor etc. are universal and translate to even other genres like 2D platformers. When I picked up Street Fighter 4, I had to unlearn a ton of habits from the Smash series. However, when my roommate picked up Rolento, I had some good ideas of what to do being suddenly faced with so much pressure because rolento reminds me of Shiek. I'm rambling, but yeah

[@Skallva]

I also feel the exclusivity argument about Smash, in a pretty roundabout way. I used to play a lot of Sm4sh during 2015-16 but then I discovered BlazBlue and I can't bring myself to come back. I can jump into other fighting games fine but Smash now feels too weird and sloppy for me to want to regularly come back to it. I mean, at least Sm4sh does. Ult just controls terribly, plain and simple.

[@yagirlmayalazarus6713]

What if they just like playing Smash? You can't really say that it's because skill doesn't carry over rather than uninterest since it could very well be they just like Smash.

[@YourBestBudy]

If your goal is to have better outreach to the developers it might be worthwhile to find a relatively popular Japanese KZbinr to work with you in remaking in Japanese and to their audience.

[@coco_chu18]

Agreed, it's a shame that Nintendo of America is just a bunch of bots designed to send Ceast and Desist to every fangames and mods of their games.

[@CLSharpman5000]

Bump

[@joe564338]

Amsa is a pro player highered as an ultimate developer. Try him first but if he as a pro smash player can't already influence the game's development then it's probably already a lost cause.

[@baddragonite]

The "it's a party game" excuse is so weak to me. Like a ton of competitive games could be considered "party games" Heck just look at the first few Halos. LAN parties and online multiplayer arguably became mainstream due to that game being fun to play at parties with a ton of friends. And just the same as Halo I think smash should have a more in depth rules customization. In Halo Reach onward you could legitimately make ANY genre of custom game in Halo if you changed enough stuff around. I played racing games, target shooter games, legitimate full blown turn based chess with automatic turns integrated in, matches with super speed, matches with small hit boxes, straight up prop hunt. Heck Griffball and Zombies- official games now, started as fan made game types.

[@CocaPepsi21]

No, he said that you can play the game the way it was not originally intended to. “It’s just a party game” was not the only point he said in the video. How about you actually use your brain and watch all through the video before you assume shit. Probably need to watch his prequel video if you didn’t

[@8bitdiedie]

Just because certain games changed and developed like that doesn’t mean we should expect it from every other game. The competitive aspect of Smash was an accident and Nintendo is under no obligation to appeal to it. Are they sitting on a goldmine and wasting potential? Of course. But that doesn’t mean they owe us jackshit. They obviously always wanted Smash to be something different to that and based on their sales figures I don’t see why they’d want to appeal to a smaller niche.

[@ayar2]

@@upcastplanet4808 all those pro players, streamers and tournament organizers are technically using their software and hardware to make money. without a proper signed contract they're basically at Nintendo's legal mercy.

[@8bitdiedie]

@@ayar2 This guy gets it. If Nintendo had no legal right to do what they’re doing, they wouldn’t be doing it. It’s not that Nintendo is being mean, it’s just that other game companies are more willing to be nice because they don’t have the outdate mindset Nintendo have. But Nintendo aren’t being the “weird” ones here (legally speaking), the other companies are.

[@christianbaker3564]

A great comment and yet the thread turned full retard. But it doesn't make the orginal.comment any less correct.

[@bobtan532]

The buffering system is actually debilitating for any long time smash fan. Staple falcon combos, like downthrow nair, are made so much more difficult by weird buffer timings. Simple ike strings / combos like d tilt fair, d tilt bair, etc, are so much more of a bitch to do because of the buffering. I feel like sakurai balances the game as if competitive players and noncompetitive players are going to be playing together often, which is not true.

[@Matthew-uz5fn]

Yeah, "Major" balance patches

[@reason9262]

Kirby's jab now does 1% more damage pog

[@djdrizzy9139]

@@reason9262 Kirby's jab got 1 frame faster, not 1% more damage. Patch 6.0.0 was big for him though.

[@reason9262]

@@djdrizzy9139 i just made that shit up for a joke on how inconsequential the patches are lmao

[@Matthew-uz5fn]

the biggest buff in the last 2 patches was fox's dair now working properly

[@ILoveToEatRed40]

@@Matthew-uz5fn that basically changes nothing

[@huey7987]

Moral of the story: Fix the buffer system and please support your competitive scene. It really doesn't make any sense why Nintendo wouldn't want to support their competitive scene when it's not only free advertising and revenue but also supports a healthier community.

[@ayar2]

I think their reason isnt money (which certainly they dont have a lack of), its image, the competitive scene projects an image they dont particularly agree to, nor they want to be associated with, might explain why they dont completely commit to it.

[@NamelessViking01]

@@ayar2 I agree with you 100%. The smash community is known to being one of the most toxic video fanbases of all time and I don't blame Nintendo at all. 80% of the tournament's I've been too, players smell awful, weird asf, no manners, and general awareness to other people or things. The very slim chance of Nintendeo helping the competitive scene instantly evaporate when 5 of the best known smash players got exposed for sexual conduct and pedophilia.

[@jirehtheprovider]

@@NamelessViking01 let us not forget the incidents on DotA 2 and CS:GO's competitive Esports issues (sexual assaults, gambling, cheating, toxic behavior, etc) that Nintendo may had studied from the side lines. I mean, I am not sure if They are ready to become more yakuza driven on player and community punishments to contrast their family image as a global gaming brand.

[@sangan3202]

theyre stubborn and would rather lose extra money than actually giving shit to the scene

[@babyvaso3855]

When you're at the top, appealing to the minority isn't a real motive for change. This has been Nintendo's philosophy since the CDI games failed.

[@leonzchannelz]

It actually bothers me that there's no more patches so nothing in this video will get changed

[@Spyder-Marth]

That really bothers me, too. If only the dev team actually understood competitive play a lot. It doesn't seem like they did, though.

[@davidturner6700]

The fact that you can’t run through your opponent on this game makes fast characters less useful on the ground and greatly reduces ground mix ups. This game made jumping the best out of shield option making this more of an aerial fighting game which again weakens the the fighting on the ground. Characters with good aerials completely control the meta game at the moment. Also the fact that it’s hard the fall through platforms on this game makes being on platforms a much bigger disadvantage then it was in any other smash game.

[@Raven-gx4kj]

The fact that a character having a good nair makes them a good character is silly

[@Hackstr_]

I liked how he said "im not going to mention the people who didn't contact me" and puts that guy named Zero from mega man clever

[@agent7142]

What did Zero say about his video?

[@b51waterclub51]

There’s so much passion in this game, yet I still can’t rewind or fast forward through replays

[@Jiren913]

Now that the game is almost 100% complete, I would like to see a follow up from you. I never really understood the problems with the game until I watched this.

[@wetube6513]

There's no smash run 🖕

[@houdeanihd3873]

my opinion about the "fixes" that they keep trying to apply to certain characters: The issues around multihits, body blocking, grabs whiffing etc are baked into the game because of how it was designed (hurtboxes just being slapped onto character models, how multihit moves act) and to be honest, putting plasters on these issues as they come up won't ever address the full problems (and often they seem to affect other things in the process) I don't think any of this stuff is going away unless they change how the game works fundamentally, which is never going to happen. Which is big sad

[@retrojazzer1727]

As a Marth main, everytime someone says "This game is so properly balanced" in this video, I cry.

[@fishyfishyfishy500akabs8]

Lucina: *Laughs in being literally better Marth*

[@juannaym8488]

I can't believe how after more than 2 years Marth is still a worthless character. They could buff him so, so easily but they just refuse

[@ShawFujikawa]

@@juannaym8488 He’s not worthless, and he has already been buffed at least once. Let’s not bury reasonable discussions with hyperbole.

[@mythoughtsexactly2145]

I mean Marth is in an interesting position. Considering that Lucina is already really good, if not careful, the devs would accidentally make Marth too good. That said, I dont care, I want consistent tippers

[@supesdude8095]

I think Marth is alright actually..

[@NCozy]

27:20 Instant double jumps are actually good for having a higher single jump than a fullhop. It improves a lot of characters combo games and allows characters with a short fullhop like jigglypuff to jump onto platforms.

[@RanserSSF4]

agree, but the issue is that it showcases why the buffer system is bad when you have to rely on a "tech" that has existed since Smash 64, and was never needed for the most part except for Ultimate

[@NCozy]

@@RanserSSF4 Ik what he meant, that doesn't really excuse him for misrepresenting what the tech is actually used for.

[@RanserSSF4]

@@NCozy Don't get me wrong, I agree with you for sure, but what I'm saying still showcases why the buffer system is bad.

[@yagirlmayalazarus6713]

RanserSSF4 I don't know if using IDJ shows buffer's flaws when it isn't meant to be a counter to buffer/shorthop shortcut but is meant to be for a big jump.

[@RanserSSF4]

@@yagirlmayalazarus6713 It does. Most characters that want to do a full hop for most combos (Greninja D-tilt to full hope Fair at high percent) are so inconsistent due to the buffer system combined with the short hop shortcut mechanic. The fact IDJ bypasses it with the same effect as a full hope but slightly higher than normal proves that the buffer system is bad for the most part.

[@Basilisck8233]

Ignore me, just here feeding that oh so lovely algorithm machice

[@FinallyAlone]

Fudj: "no, I don't think I will"

[@idontcheckmynotifications]

Tasty.

[@ghazalaansari6]

I really miss footstool and cool jab-lock combos from Smash 4.

[@calebb7012]

unplayable online should be number 1. The fact that the 3ds smash can run stable with 4 players online over wifi and Switch can't...Is seriously telling.

[@nathannemyman3522]

As a Persona fan, I can confirm my music variety is in fact lacking

[@sheridan5175]

I never saw that coming

[@SamuelTheAdept]

I love how in depth and perspective changing each point is, as a casual player who only dabbled a bit in competitive Melee this really opens my eyes to the flaws of Ultimate, it doesn’t make me like the game less because that’s not the point, you’re criticizing something to help it grow and to point out its shortcomings not because you hate the game but to help improve it (even if the devs may not listen.) I can see where you’re coming from and why you have opinions on design choices and mistakes. And honestly I think the hate you get is unnecessary.

[@jiwas4419]

I already commented a lot of what I wanted to say on the previous video so I'll just reiterate that while I do personally think ultimate is a good game in both aspects, I definitely agree with a lot of this video. I haven't found time to watch the interviews but besides that this is a great take. While I do still think highly of this game my view on this games issues has changed a lot since your first video and I now feel these are worse problems than I thought they were originally. I find myself looking back at the original video and agreeing with points I disagreed with before. Great video

[@MeowModeFGC]

^This for sure.

[@Gianluca_GMS]

Man . i really dont get why ultimate isnt an ongoing game that CONSTANTLY gets updated to, at the end, fix all of its problems. from a casual and a competitive stand point. It would actually be the PERFECT opportunity to make this TRULY The Ultimate Smash Brothers Title.

[@jonasbjordal8332]

The short hop macro still not being toggle-able is unreal to me

[@bionicallyacomputer292]

Yeah😔😔😔

[@badaryman7139]

Nintendo: Stop having fun wrong!

[@ayar2]

more like "have fun the way you want, but dont expect us to cater to your specific way of having fun."

[@mariofan1ish]

"It's apparent to me that Nintendo dictates what is and isn't fun. Nintendo is the very much Fun Police." -TJ, FTCR (Super Johnny Sunshine stream)

[@aggroknight4259]

@@ayar2 That's 100% inaccurate, because they send cease & desist notices to people who try to have fun _their_ way.

[@ayar2]

@@aggroknight4259 really? I never once received one since smash 4 whenever my friends and I organized smash tournaments, or when I set a couple laptops with joysticks at my birthday to play emulated vs games (some of them from nintendo) while making BBQ.

[@christianbaker3564]

@@ayar2 cause no one knows/cares who you are 🤣🤣. They even shut down a tourney since they were using slippy.

[@lambchu6459]

28:20 Youre pulling my heart strings. That iStudying v ESAM match is what got me into competitive smash and what made me a greninja main. Despite him being a mid tier, the way iStudying manipulated that character was inspirational. I was pretty devistated how gutted Greninja felt when booting up Ultimate for the first time, and now i dont even watch/play Ultimate. The good news is; it motivated me to start Melee, but i still miss trying to get good at footstool combos and move like the pros with my frog bro.

[@TheMasterBlaze]

The buffer and the input lag are the biggest drawback Ultimate has imo. Those 2 issues have really taken me out of some sets and made me play the game as opposed to having fun with the game.

[@germanpogostick]

BLAZE?????

[@TheMasterBlaze]

@@germanpogostick POGO?????

[@germanpogostick]

@@TheMasterBlaze soooooo how's it going

[@TheMasterBlaze]

@@germanpogostick Everything's going fine. You?

[@germanpogostick]

@@TheMasterBlaze pretty great tbh, life's good. I can not escape my past tho as it seems (a good thing)

[@ohmygoddiosmio9138]

missing aerial -> spotdodge -> smash attack has killed this game for me

[@kaidenm.5931]

33:12 Sakurai has actually spoken on the topic of rollback and shut it down, so I don't think we'll be seeing that any time soon. (www.inverse.com/gaming/smash-ultimate-rollback-netcode-vs-delay-based )

[@zeromythosver.]

Fuck it I’ve put it off for like a decade I’m learning Melee, a true chad well-designed game vs. the virgin million man roster with a heart of coal

[@kaidenm.5931]

@@zeromythosver. yessirrrrrr praise fizzi and unclepunch

[@Gatchu137]

@@zeromythosver. I don't wanna discourage anybody from having fun, but everything good about Melee happened unintentionally.

[@NCozy]

@@Gatchu137 I don't think that has any relevance tho. Like yeah it wasn't intended but that doesn't mean it's bad. The combo system in Street Fighter 2 was a bug left in the game by the developers and it's impact on the genre was huge. It's even in Smash Ultimate. It's safe to say that the developers didn't intend for this mechanic to exist and that doesn't devalue it in any way. It improves the game, it's fun.

[@Gatchu137]

@@NCozy I don't think it's a bad thing either. I was just responding to the "chad well-designed" remark, because all of the best aspects weren't actually designed that way.

[@ginker4658]

as a fighting game player who dosent play a lot of smash when you said 11 FRAMES OF LAG I got off my chair and vomited for 11 years and then thanked sfv for its 5 frames of lag.

[@biivamunner3122]

And Ultimate still has more than SFV even offline

[@aarondx3764]

"Hero's menu mechanick being unfair for foreign player who can't read english" I never thought of that!

[@jugohayashi2389]

Also the only character you HAVE to read to counterplay in any fighting game

[@mevincool]

@@jugohayashi2389 If you join an NA tournament why would u be surprised it in english. Its 12 moves if you serious about the game fucking learn them same thing if i went to japan i would learn it in japanese its not an unfair advantage literally just takes half an hour.

[@kailynx2295]

@@mevincool you're big dumb lmao

[@relo999]

@@mevincool Europe says hi. English, French, Spanish, German, Italian, Dutch and Russian.

[@ayar2]

I though the fact that Hero can Crit you at random along with having random access to spells that can literally delete you from the game was enough proof that he wasnt made with competitive play in mind.

[@Giggles_iJest]

I sort of don’t wanna play Smash anymore. I switched to Rivals, because it deserves it much more.

[@flamingpaper7751]

I love the changes Ryu and Ken got via balance patches. Everyone else might as well have not even been changed (aside from nerfing Pichu FTilt, which everyone agrees was needed)

[@Cheez_913]

Hello I am from the future, Sora and Kazuya have been added which was awesome, even if Kazuya is busted as shit, and despite Soras moveset being somewhat underwhelming. Unfortunately none of these problems have been solved; further more, it seems as though they never will be, with Nintendo stating that with Soras inclusion, there will the final batch of fighter adjustments. It is truly sad to see Ultimate not live up to its fullest potential that we know it's capable of.

[@Blue-jn1ph]

A game with such amazing competitive potential left in the dust by its developers. Now the only people that play it competitively are folks who can withstand the mess it has become.

[@nikopepper2152]

Online is unbearable, especially outside of the US or Japan. We don't have the playerbase to host tournaments, neither the internet to have fun on quickplay. Even with a fucking 80 dollar lan cable, which is the relative price o bought it for

[@fatormabolay847]

Nicolas why you speaking so much facts rn

[@desamster]

There's melee with slippi. Fans do what Nintendont. F buying the newest game, play what's good.

[@onewingedren2228]

Arena>>>>>>Quickplay

[@armorparade]

@@desamster thing is people want to play their game. i play melty blood and guilty gear +r, fighting games just as old as melee, they have great online made by the community, great rosters, amazing mechanics, and lively communities. but I can't tell a guilty gear xrd player to play my games because xrd's online sucks. they want to play xrd because they like xrd lol. the solution isn't my games, the solution is a way to play xrd online that doesn't jump from 5f to 3f to 6f back down to 3f

[@Yokai_Yuri]

@@onewingedren2228 arena still have the default 4 frame lag if you have "perfect connection" also thete id always people wanting to come to arenas so the more people, the more lag. There is also people who have so much lag that your internet connection cannot carry them.

[@StarmenRock]

I fully agree with you. I feel like smash ultimate controls like shit, i fight the controls much more than the opponent.

[@LiteralmenteFadul]

To me something emblematic of ultimate is how they treated captain falcon. Since day one falcon mains have been only asking for fixes, not buffs. Fixes to his unexplainable dashdance, wonky side-b, nonsensical hurtboxes on uptilt, weird as fuck jab. Instead nintendo made his side-b an all purpose combo tool that combos into his kill moves at any percent. Now it really did made him a lot more viable and I still think this character is fun to watch, but why would't they fix his issues BEFORE giving him such a ridiculous buff? They took a very interesting version of falcon that could have had a lot of potential if he workes propperly and turned him into a one-button bruiser that still has a shit dashdance, wonky side-b, nonsensical hurtboxes on uptilt and weird as fuck jab. And that is true for so many characters that get buffed INSTEAD of fixed.

[@toowiggly]

I like how the turnaround makes him more committal, making it harder to safely pressure. They did fix the side b to be more consistent, though not entirely so. And falcon's hand on doesn't actually overlap too much when he uses up tilt, he pulls back his hand as the foot moves forward.

[@spreadwuvokay]

@@toowiggly The horrendously designed turnaround making him worst in every way isn't something you should like or even justify

[@francoisturcotte3982]

Cough mewtwo tail cough

[@goGothitaLOL]

they did finally gutted Rockcrocking tho but that's one thing

[@hAze_the_shrimp]

Wanna see an update video where Aegis is the only character now being played at top level and how online killed off a lot of the game's hype. 13.0.1 fixed nothing, once again lol.

[@brunkosproogle5046]

i've put 600+ hours into ultimate and I still can't consistently RAR

[@technicolormischief-maker5683]

People treat a functional training room and tutorial as unreasonable requests and wonder why people have grown so toxic towards this series. How can a game be for everyone when half of your playerbase doesn’t even know how to recover? How can you learn at your own pace when the one place where you have the freedom to do so *uses a different knockback formula from the rest of the game?*

[@Brawltendo]

Exactly. I’ve been saying for ages that most people don’t even know how to recover in Smash, yet somehow Sakurai thinks that removing depth and advanced tech from the series is what’s magically gonna close the skill gap. Maybe if there was a proper tutorial, not some half assed video that’s hardly changed since the first game that you have to sit on the title screen to even see anyway (or deliberately go through some menus to find but that’s beside the point), people would actually understand how to play and could improve from there.

[@raghavpatel720]

We really need more videos talking about the game in this manner instead of tweets honestly

[@ladyshapeshifter2327]

Make sure to leave Twitter to see less content like Twitter

[@nesswednesday2976]

@@ladyshapeshifter2327 Twitter has sadly been the powerhouse of the Smash community since Ultimate was announced. That alone really shows that the community needs to be overhauled. This is why other parts of the community like SmashTube, Smashboards (as cringy as it can be), and Instasmash have been left to rust.

[@ladyshapeshifter2327]

@@nesswednesday2976 Amen

[@Spyder-Marth]

@@nesswednesday2976 TRUE.

[@purebaldness]

Never played Smash. Yet I'm happy to watch these long form videos you produce. It's a testament to how good your videos are. There's so many algorithm-chasing channels that cover games I'm interested in, such as Doom Eternal with the channel 'Midnight'. Awful content. Seeing something so well put together and paced is always nice to see. Thanks, man. Edit: just to elaborate a little. You clearly *respect* *your* *audience* and genuinely care about your work. No padding, e-begging or clickbait. It's sad that not giving into these tempting practices isn't rewarded enough.

[@iknowwhereyoulive618]

i love ultimate as is, but these issues really hurt the experience. thanks for bringing light to these issues.

[@BBWahoo]

damn dude, I actually started feeling excitement when you talked about the patches. Usually this bores me, but I can hear the enthusiasm in your voice!

[@mecromanzer2289]

The players have generally gotten around the wierd interactions and janky neutral game with better out of shield options and more 'active' move choices over just throwing stuff out because its 'safe'

[@Gatchu137]

Yes, players have started realizing that randomly throwing out safe moves actually limits your ability to react, and have started to intentionally throw out all their moves. That's why I don't think Ultimate had a neutral problem, and people were using newly adapting players as a basis.

[@ryusoulger9127]

@@Gatchu137 Ultimate is still young and has a long way to go, I'mma wait for the game to develop more because it has come a long way.

[@mecromanzer2289]

@@Gatchu137 Yeah, although accessibility as a whole did dumb the game down some so much that alot of people play most characters exactly the same. That's my problem with ultimate as a whole. I don't have a playstyle with Mario, Mario has a playstyle. Not all characters are like that but most of the high tiers do

[@Gatchu137]

@@mecromanzer2289 I don't think that's true. I think we can see astronomical differences between regions. Japanese and Western players don't play anything alike, but both are proven to work. Even between players, you say that Mario has a play style, but Dark Wizzy and Prodigy play completely different. Dark Wizzy is much more passive, and uses a lot of fireballs and bairs, plus fludd to keep opponents away. Prodigy is very aggressive, using nairs and up airs for fast conversions, and dair for mid-air pressure. You could argue that accessibility might make MOST players play the same, but I see a lot of unique quirks in how most of my friends play, too. I don't see why making characters less technically demanding would also limit players from having unique styles. On the contrary, Ultimate giving most of the roster lots of universal options has made the game very read heavy. It's incredibly difficult to leverage sheer frame data against the opponent, like it was in past games (Sm4sh Shiek could win for free against 60% of the roster for example), so a lot of the interactions come down to how players are interacting with each other, rather than how the characters play.

[@Brawltendo]

@@mecromanzer2289 The way you put that is perfect. I’ve been trying to describe that feeling in comment sections across the internet for a couple years now but no one seems to get what I mean. The way Ult’s combo system works and how the characters are designed around very rigid and specific strings inhibits the ability to play characters in unique ways. Sure, not _everyone_ is gonna play a character exactly the same but it’s similar enough that it gets stale fast.

[@3tailedfox706]

Oh how much I hate the buffer system. Doing a nair out of a jump without killing my air momentum is my biggest nightmare.

[@TorManiak]

I really, really wanted to finally play competitively in Ultimate, since the Miis were allowed everywhere (especially with Mii Brawler as it's my main and the only Mii that was broken). I thought the game would allow a lot more expression and fun than Sm4sh, but sadly, it came off as a straight turn off. The game is fun for me, but only when I don't try to play it competitively. Those clunky controls that aren't even responsive enough, the online, etc... I didn't have fun competitively at all. That's why I switched games and played Rivals of Aether. I can have fun both competitively AND casually.

[@rottedhood]

this guy gets it. this was the reason why i had stopped playing smash recently. even just fixing the buffer would help this game immensely

[@Y0U2BER]

Steve's implementation is absolutely flawless... ...but fighting him is pure cancer.

[@babyvaso3855]

Every projectile character in the game is a Steve. Have you ever fought a good Isabelle online? Madness.

[@Y0U2BER]

Fair enough but fighting anyone online can be terrible, especially projectile fighters. Steve's game plan though specifically calls for him not fighting you at all until he's done mining for better crap. Even then most Steve players just wait for you to make a mistake and punish. It's characters like him that make people hate fighting games unfortunately.

[@babyvaso3855]

@@Y0U2BER A Reflector and decent reflexes can twart a Steve as every high ES Steve I fought randomly threw out mine carts. Without? Madness.

[@scitails]

I also feel that while it might be hard to change the core netcode, online could easily be improved with some basic features allowing greater transparency. For example, they could let us see predicted delay prior to accepting a match (and indeed, let us reject matches we don't want to fight). Just small stuff like that would go a long way. They've also shown that they are willing to make these kind of changes when they added being able to quit mid-spectating in battle arenas (since it is really hard to get the game to consistently recognize you pressing y to quit with how fast it comes and goes). So I have a little hope for that kind of thing.

[@QSHV]

It's a shame that Nintendo continues to ignore the competitive scene

[@armorx9638]

Unfortunely not surprising, Nintendo hates the esport scene with a passion. They literally go out of their way to flex how much power they have over these ips.

[@finn488]

lol Nintendo ignores everything just look at any source engine games customization and then compare it to smash

[@FunnaSH1T]

Lmaooo “dark Brad” then an Ad

[@Bandit_Sudo]

With Brad Pitt in it

[@simongotborg3866]

41:22 - I find this comment about landing recovery quite interesting. I really feel like in Melee you have to choose between ding rising and falling aerials. Rising areials are fast, falling aerials are safe. But In Ultimate it felt like I always wanted to do early areals for the auto cancel.

[@tappoff]

me and ultimate are in a love hate relationship rn

[@DZCOSENTRY]

I’m totally in the same camp. I get so frustrated with the lack of control but I see how much potential it has. I need to just try out rivals of aether at some point. Take a break from it for now.

[@bravopapa137]

I just bought it for the Lite and noticed the changes right away... will be playing this more enjoyably once they fix these main issues for I’d say a majority of people. I am literally holding onto this game in hopes of a change 🙏🏽

[@tappoff]

@@bravopapa137 I feel the same way... honestly I’m glad that they’re patching characters n stuff but it’s not the characters that need help rn, it’s the game itself

[@kirbyroach562]

Fantastic vid! This came out at a very ironic time for me, since I've been working on my own essay about my issues with Ultimate, and I was about to start putting the finishing touches on it this morning, I saw this in my recommended and was very excited to watch. "The competitive failings of Smash Ultimate" was a big inspiration of my own essay, along with my own fed up-ness of my bad so many aspects of Ultimate are. It's a game i would give anything to be able to love, but in the sorry, mechanically flaud mess it has and still is in, I just can't find the ability to do so. But watching this has actually given me a clearer idea of how I actually want to better structure my critique, so giving this a second watch while I put the finishing touches on that revision. Once again, fantastic work and can't wait to see what you come up with next, whatever it may be.

[@MineNAdventurer]

I do get what you mean, but at the same time, it is a bit of a different can of worm than "not intentional to how it is designed thus is bad." And this is from someone who also likes to stay playing to how the devs intend X mechanic to be used in online games. I'd more see mechanical "failings" in Smash Ultimate as more unintended rules. Like a lawyer finding a loophole in a law, these unintended "failings" in the code are simply to be circumvented. A better analogy than the "the gun is designed incorrected " would be, well an oversight. Let's say this gun is a custom gun instead, it fires just like normal but when you reload you need to press a then pull out the cartridge in order to make it's cartridge stay in better. However unlike other guns this button is on the top of the Barrel instead of the side of the pistol. It is still something that you have to get used to but it isn't "broken" and isn't consistent to other models and is a little cumbersome. That's what I see many of these flaws Smash Ultimate has, unintended oversights that just need to be circumvented. Doesn't make your issues any less relevant but at the same time I could use this exact point of unintended oversights to scrutinize Melee as well. In melee's case this caused a whole competitive scene to flourish but at the same time it is pretty difficult to get into the scene aswell.

[@animeprofilepicture9639]

I agree, I also thought the gun analogy was extreme.

[@MineNAdventurer]

@@animeprofilepicture9639 Same, personally I also think it was a little out there because it isn't exactly the same as well. A gun firing from the cartridge would make little sense to even occur unless intentional and even then it's a very extreme contrast. If they wanted a gun analogy it'd make more sense if it was the gun was very inaccurate in comparison to other guns due to how big it's barrel was or whatever. Though I think just a different analogy would be better all together

[@jerenjagodzinski9651]

I just realized why my moves came out a smidge later then when they should’ve. The delay

[@purpleplasma4824]

There are many problems with this game, 1. Spamming is rewarded and does too much damage. 2. Non of the characters are balanced. 3. Crap controls example short hopping/back airs. 4. Horrible inputs. 5. Disgusting toxic community. (but that applies to all of smash and reason i quit the community.) 6. Horrible hitboxes. 7. It does moves I never input or did despite clearly doing the move in that said direction many times. 8. Directional Air dodging ruins the gameplay too cancelling my neutral air dodge. 9. Fast falling is a pain to do. 10. Characters die too quick or die too long. 11. When I try and move and grab I stay stationary even when timed right or longer. 12. Removing taunts made tbagging a thing making it way toxic. Yea the game is decent but gameplay wise, its just not fun hell if i got 77% W/R and over 4500 match wins on smash 4 then somethings up, but the game itself is okay but just not balanced or fun for me, think ultimate just kind of ruined gaming for me ngl stupidity gets rewarded and actual thinking just don't.

[@jayandjlps]

I'm tired of getting banned by pros on Twitch like Esam, Dabuz, Void etc. for having anything negative to say about Ultimate. It's so annoying. Although, I did call Esam Avatar Aang.

[@cottncorp320]

You’re not wrong about either

[@jdweck14]

@Mr. Ocean he’s a racist?

[@_CNT_]

Based

[@NCozy]

I mean it depends. If you go in just to complain then they kinda have every right to ban you. They've probably heard these complaints millions of times, they're professional players. If you were trying to be respectful about it or asking for their opinion then I'd understand your frustration but there's a difference between that and just straight up complaining.

[@megamillion5852]

@Mr. Ocean Racism and social justice are incongruous, wth?

[@Zylefer]

Your last ultimate video actually got me back into smash because I finally understood certain mechanics and I thank you. This video is really good :)

[@NEdgyman]

Top 15 Chills trying to pronounce Sephiroth

[@reason9262]

Sepheriath

[@bagelmeister2295]

/sepəraɪaf/

[@RealHumanVT]

Say fi rowth

[@salmonkindalikeme9316]

Man of culture right here

[@thischanneldoesnotexist.750]

Competed in the regionals not that long ago, and gotta say, the entire time all I felt was the overwhelming sensation that I was too hard on Smash For Wii U/3DS

[@Mage_Nichlas_]

I'm still waiting for them to add an individual character language menu.

[@petercollins1982]

Hey man, great video. That was very thorough and thoughtful in expressing your perspective. I greatly appreciate the care you put into the video, as well as your well crafted arguments. The part where you were interviewing your guests about the online input delay and showed videos of people pressing shield and it taking forever to come out or when your guests talked about how people will do one thing and something completely different comes out was very cathartic, I know someone who will vehemently argue that there is literally no lag online and it plays the same as offline and I just can’t even with that guy.

[@LS95774]

31:41 This change was made in 8.1.0 with Small Battlefield's addition, but it was extended to 4 player lobbies in 9.0.0

[@chrisdivodi9291]

It's sad that these design flaws will only be "patched out" by mods at sole point. It's even sadder that Nintendo will never support them despite fixing their game for free lol I didn't understand why Smash 4 was more fun to me until I watched your two videos on the matter. Really solid work.

[@NinjaGuyDan_]

I have a legitimate hate for people who just want to silence criticism and call it "bitching" to discourage more people from voicing issues.

[@finn488]

especially people who use the term "hater" (not that I have heard anyone above the age of 10 use that term)

[@bootieos7701]

I think the lack of patch notes when Sephiroth released is largely due to well... Sephiroth himself being coded and released, but also the effort gone to create Cloud's new Final Smash, and they wanted to prioritise that. But, Ult did kinda have a similar amount of patch notes with Banjo's release, so don't completely take my word for it.

[@yagirlmayalazarus6713]

Well you also have to remember Banjo and Terry released rather closely to each other plus they must have been busy coding Hero's rng.

[@bootieos7701]

@@yagirlmayalazarus6713 True.

[@-AirKat-]

I miss running pass people, why did they remove that?

[@ayar2]

making characters mass more realistic?

[@TopOfAllWorlds]

I think that's a fine change.

[@jordanhendricks3307]

@@ayar2 bowser can jump off of air. I'll take depth over realism any day lol. I'm tryna pivot grab the zoners man

[@lmoa3917]

I feel like it was to make the game more similar to traditional fighters, which is an awful excuse but I can’t think of any better reason.

[@rflowers360]

Dude run thru pivot grabs were so cool

[@baelGIGAN]

biased, more like based

[@thepastaprogenitor851]

Pfp makes it better

[@zeromythosver.]

@@thepastaprogenitor851 TRUE

[@liamthellama8386]

Guts speaking facts

[@star_toast]

Please no Twitter language here

[@LS95774]

@@star_toast > twitter language lmao

[@doclouis4236]

28:25 Does this guy know that you can still do footstool combos in Ultimate, just not for an infinite amount of times.

[@akio0191]

You can tech footstools now, so they're not true. Untechable footstools in ultimate would probably be hella abusable, but I loved them in 4.

[@doclouis4236]

@@akio0191 Yeah, I know. But you can wave land onto the ground before the opponent falls from the footstool, and jab lock them with 1 or 2 hits to setup for another attack. So, yeah. It's limited but you can still pull it off.

[@AK46supr]

That's what i was thinking

[@PassTheSnails]

@@doclouis4236 requires skill, punishes bad players and rewards good ones. Waveland jablocks are some of the best techniques smash players have come up with, I hope it never gets removed.

[@doclouis4236]

@@PassTheSnails Well there's a reason jab locking and footstooling still exist, the developers heard no complaints about those inclusions aside from random tripping in Brawl which they did remove after all the complaints.

[@dextra_24703]

one thing if we are talking about buffing DK, they should make it so his moves aren´t minus on hit at around 0%

[@philippecoppieters4742]

Chunky's DK is godlike tho

[@PERSONALEEMG]

24:51 You can buffer full hop aerials HOW TO DO IT: Tap jump ON INPUT Aerial with the A Button (not with C-Stick or Z) PROFIT

[@edgarustian3948]

Fun fact, there was a second online buff patch where they did buff the tick/refresh rate for lobbies of 3+ people up to 60 per second. So yeah a minor but at least some type of online patch

[@heyomaio]

Wished they buffed moves for characters who need it. But instead we live in a world where they buff Ness and Zelda's specials for no reason

[@LeafMaltieze]

The fact that I can't rebind my controls in such a way, that the A button *ONLY* does tilt/jab attacks, and leave the C-Stick for all smash attacks, is the most annoying thing for me as a casual player. Yes, you can learn to flick the stick slightly slower, so that you can consistently use tilt attacks, but I have friends who have played Smash at parties for years, that didn't even know they could do tilt attacks. And for those that say you should just use Tilt Stick, what if I want to use Tilt-Stick, and then designate the A button to only do Smashes/jabs? I can't do that either. The A button, or whatever you bind to the attack command, will always bind both tilts, *and* smash attacks, no matter what. You can't turn that off. This is baffling to me.

[@Gatchu137]

It never hurts to have more control options, but assuming you're not using tap jump, you can mash the left stick in whatever direction you want, as hard as you want, and input a tilt consistently. I would only see tap jump making up tilts hard. And if you're using tilt stick, and want to unbind tilts from the normal directional input, I can understand to a degree, but most people don't have trouble inputting smash attacks. Like you said, tilts are much harder to throw out with the normal inputs than smash attacks are.

[@gamejitzu]

Ultimate's my first real Smash game, and I switched between smash/tilt stick a lot because of this. With C-stick tilt, you have to learn the timing for manual smash attacks, because you could still misinput tilts. And with C-stick set to smashes, you could still misinput smash attacks with the left stick. A "one locks the other"-type setting would be great. But of course it's not impossible to learn the way it is now

[@stephenmaher4690]

I think if you want this message to get to the Devs you need to be more concise with what you want. If the devs ever do see this video, or others like it, they won't have the time to sort through it all. 1.) Fix buffer/control system (make optional) 2.) if you do that, make online the next priority 3.) if you do that, then add more subtlety to the movement by making wave landing better and/or making platforms less sticky.

[@bionicallyacomputer292]

yep

[@solelovewyrm2353]

The platform thing is super important to me, it's the main reason I vastly prefer playing on FD over battlefield.