The story of MIG 15 | The MIG 15 documentary

[@Edmund007013]

"What fool would sell us their top technology" - Joseph Stalin..............Answer Great Britain.

[@lawrencemay8671]

This is why I’m not a great Fan of the Brits

[@Dushmann_]

​​@@lawrencemay8671 Because they sold an engine to the USSR once? What other things did we do to make you dislike us? The British have helped the US in literally every war except for Vietnam. The British gave all their atomic weapons technology to the US in the 1940s when they were more advanced in that field than the US. The British gave all their supersonic technology to the US in the 60s/70s when they were more advanced in that field than the US. So just because we sold an engine to an enemy country that wasn't our enemy at the time, you dislike us? The US sold stuff to the USSR too. The USSR was our "ally" in WW2. The British also gave their very early, very secret jet engines to the US which ultimately allowed the US to kickstart their own domestic jet technology. The US could've bought those exact same jet engines from the British if they wanted to. Remember that Britain was bankrupted by WW2, we needed money, even if it came from our soon-to-be enemy. The British are the best ally you've got.

[@Dushmann_]

​@@lawrencemay8671 Also, your name is literally "Lawrence May", I guarantee you're of primarily British descent. You are an Anglo.

[@GeneralKatarn]

​@@Dushmann_imagine the world today if Britain went ahead and integrated the Rolls Royce engine in the F-14 Tomcat

[@Cobra1597]

Honestly, I doubt that Stalin ever said such a thing. The Soviets had been buying or leasing Western technology for many years at that point. Between 1929 and 1932 alone, major technology transfers to the USSR happened with Ford, GM, Packard, GE, and US Steel. Some of these literally involved building entire factory complexes based off of the Western designs. This wasn’t espionage; these were legal technology transfer deals.

[@Jon.A.Scholt]

The Aviation Museum I worked at for 5 years, the Kalamazoo Air Zoo, has a MiG-15 in it's inventory. And right across from it is a F-86. The two are "squaring off" even in the museum as they did over Korea. If you're ever in West Michigan, the Air Zoo is a great museum to visit. It's has dozens of aircraft across all eras, including a SR-71 and a newly acquired F-117!

[@vincesilva1128]

I worked on MiG15 as a A&P tech, I am so happy to see this video. Only issue I had with MiG was every time MiG come back from the flight the break system need to be changed with air because the engine was not equipped with an air pump.

[@markwilliams2620]

Thanks Jon. I enjoyed the Air Zoo every chance I got. I watched Suzanne Parrish do fly byes over West campus several times. Always wished I had a BF-109F to dance with her. Real P40's are pink!

[@Richard_K1630]

Cool.

[@parthasur6018]

@@vincesilva1128 What is A&P in this context?

[@patdisaster8259]

I saw a MiG 15 or possibly 17.....silver with the Soviet red star at our annual air show.....it was cool watching a cold war fighter bad guys ....

[@conradsz]

In March 1953 a Polish military pilot escaped in a MIG-15 to the Danish island Bornholm on the Baltic Sea. This island is located relatively close to Poland. The plane was examined by NATO services and later transferred to the Soviets.

[@jojoyayathereal]

wow

[@michaelcuff3418]

Mig 15 is the most beautiful jet ever made!

[@silversurfergw]

the soviet Union produced some of the most beautiful and effective fighter jets... Mig 15, 17 and SU 27 are specially gorgeous.

[@crazygamingyt7245]

Mig 21

[@davidpaul2680]

I was hiking in the CO foothills one day and looked down to see a Mig 15 and a F-86 flying BELOW ME. This was just before an air show. I think the Mig crashed about a year later, but It's a sight I'll never forget.

[@Perkinator104]

Lol you may be the only person outside of the Korean peninsula that can say you have looked down on those two planes while on a hike.

[@robwernet9609]

Yeh that's incredible

[@robwernet9609]

Yeh that's incredible

[@robwernet9609]

Yeh that's incredible

[@kiniburk]

That was for an airshow at Centennial Airport. I worked for Jeppensen which was at the end of rwy 28 and got a free performance when they practiced dog fighting.

[@kevinmckinney3785]

I saw about 20 years ago an old MIG Jet fighter flight demo at an air show at a USAF Base. It was small, had a shiny chrome skin and preformed very dynamically. I was very impressed.

[@Thickcurves]

Russian equipment always has the same problem. They never focus on everything that's important. Huge cargo aircraft that can carry a massive amount but don't pressurize the cargo compartment. Tank with thick armor, fast and large gun but don't properly heat treat the metal and the gear box doesn't let you go fast than 6 KPH. Fast powerful jet but don't properly train pilots or invest in proper weapon systems. It's the same consistent problem with Russian military equipment.

[@gangleweed]

@@Thickcurves So, we have nothing to worry about if/when the Ukraine war boils over to become WW3 then?

[@mohamedemadetman5798]

@@gangleweed that was what hitler thought

[@kl0wnkiller912]

My father was a gunner in Korea. He started in B-29s but was then moved into B-26 aircraft doing low level strikes. He said they only saw Migs a couple of times and generally they were so fast that they never got a single hit on them. My dad got delayed getting sent to Korea because of some sort of paperwork issue so he arrived a few weeks after "Black Tuesday". All the guys he was originally supposed to go with had been shot down during that mission.

[@dr.barrycohn5461]

Wow, how lucky he was.

[@conzmoleman]

What were his thoughts on being one of the objective bad guys of that war? I’m sure he wouldn’t take kindly to Koreans invading America, after all.

[@rrai1999]

@@conzmoleman South Korea is here because of them. Buzz off

[@rstash1]

The Japanese Air Force flew F-86s out of our base at Yokota. They were like toys compared to the aircraft we had in 1962, but they were fun to watch and the Japanese loved to play with them. Kind of like go-karts compared to the Phantoms.

[@petermiles55]

An exceptional documentary, as someone has already remarked. I was born in 1955 so the Korean war was unknown to me but I did see a MIG15 in Hanoi air museum. Well done to put together amazing archival footage.

[@lucasRem-ku6eb]

Hanoi is Vietnam, you never knew about Nixon, kissinger, why not ? you only did comics ?

[@RocketTCoyote]

According to Yeager's autobiography, he later met the designers during a goodwill tour of the USSR. They were surprised that he dove the jet and survived.

[@trooperdgb9722]

I believe his account of flying a captured MIG 15 mentioned the red line painted down the middle of the instrument panel... which he was later told by Russians was a spin recovery aid. Push the control column against that line... wait 3 rotations... if the aircraft recovered. well and good. If not. Eject. He related (IIRC) that they were quite shocked when he said he HAD put it in to a spin..and recovered...lol

[@Splattle101]

I read Yeager's book, too. After the fall of the USSR some of the ex-Soviet fellas he'd spoken to recalled their side of the conversation. Their recollections and Yeager's didn't tally at all.

[@trooperdgb9722]

@@Splattle101 Pretty standard lol

[@markrowland1366]

There were some fifteen jet and rocket plane designs in development in Germany at wars end. The engines used were usually rebuilt at between twelve and twenty hours.

[@47485ksc]

I believe the Me-262 had a 7 hour life span.

[@edwardmartinez9459]

@@47485ksc Yes and to mix the fuel it was suicide if they got together out of the engine.

[@WorivpuqloDMogh]

The F86 is supposedly based on a design of Alexander Lippisch

[@craftpaint1644]

There weren't enough precious metals in Germany during the war so every machine was made of steel only. 🐻🙋🇺🇲/👁️\🇷🇺

[@Ukraineaissance2014]

Imagine what the world could have made together if they hadnt had the extreme politics in the way.

[@Thx1138sober]

There was a MIG-15 for sale in front of an antique store about 30 miles east of Dallas back in the late 90s.

[@robwernet9609]

That's cool as hell. Love to know the backstory. There's a mig21 at the usaf armaments museum here in the fla panhandle. It was seized by the atf in 90 or 91 from a Miami "business man" who bought one for pennies on the dollar after the Iron curtain fell in 89.

[@volvo1354]

the look of the early MiG aircraft designs is visually appealing

[@AJKecsk]

The MiG-15 is also a surprisingly tiny aircraft if you see it in person. The Sabre is quite a bit bigger, about the size of a MiG-19.

[@BenState]

50 cm in each direction is not 'quite a bit bigger'.

[@mrtee3477]

Does it have cup holder?

[@rob5944]

@@BenState 5ft longer and 4ft wider according to one source I looked at.

[@matheuscerqueira7952]

@@BenState the body of the mig ends earlier, giving it visibly less volume

[@Cellosong2007]

Yep, since the mig copies the look of Ta-183 A LOT

[@dennismason3740]

I'm a WWII warbird fan. I stopped paying attention to military airplanes after the Sabre and MiG-15 made their debuts. What extraordinarily beautiful jets these are, still firing bullets at one another.

[@nickrockz97]

i’m a ww2 warbird fan too and I agree, the modern overly complicated and filled with a bunch of electronics like the F-16 or F-35 isn’t as interesting or cool. Theres a special kind of mystique about early jets like the mig -15/F-86 and me262 or F80 that put it in the same cool class as ww2 prop planes.

[@dennismason3740]

@@nickrockz97 - the design of the 262 is astounding. Did you notice how the other nations refused to copy it?

[@dirtyann]

@@dennismason3740 the japanese Kikka and the soviet su 9 and su 11 are derived from the 262 though. the 163 was never copied though :)

[@Humbertusmarius]

It's not surprising that this documentary makes no mention of the German Focke-Wulf Ta-183. To this day the Russians still deny it's influence in the design of the Mig-15.

[@gtopp9619]

Probably the most-matched duo. Some of them are still being used. It speaks to the longevity (and the Russian T-34 toughness) of the design. Good video.

[@drjerry5389]

As a former Israeli air force veteran I have kept track of the best fighters in the world during the "Jet-era". I would say that the nation that impressed me most was not the UK, The US and Russia. But the Swedish aircraft manufacture SAAB and almost every single Swedish jet-fighter they developed could easily match the Russian, US and British fighters. The J-29 Barrel could outclimb and outmaneuver the Sabre, MIG 15-17 and the Vampire.

[@gtopp9619]

@@drjerry5389 The J29 acquitted itself well in the Congo. SAAB mskes great aircraft. The Gripen is a tremendous aircraft. My former father-in-law worked for SAAB in Linköping. Sweden makes the weapons that many countries use to great effect.

[@gowvdeniable8868]

@derrickbridges2611take your meds

[@JTechWP]

Really good documentary, thanks enjoyed watching

[@JB-rt4mx]

The Mig 15 is a straight copy of a WW2 KURT TANK Bkueprint, ..with Roll Royce engines...

[@billballbuster7186]

That was a good recount of the myth. In reality the Rolls Royce Nene engines were sold to Russia by the Labour Government of Clement Attlee, which at the time consisted mostly of Communist Party members or sympathizers. In total 25 Nene engines were sold to the Soviet Union in 1947 and were reverse engineered into the Klimov VK-1. This engine powered the Mig-15, Mig-17 and Il-28 Tactical Bomber, the best Soviet aircraft of the early Cold War period.

[@mpeg2tom]

4:12 Artem Mikoyan was Armenian, but Mikhail Gurevich was born in Kursk, Russia, not Ukraine, although he must have moved to Kharkiv region, Ukraine at a young age because he graduated from gymnasium there in 1910.

[@stuartkline1611]

Thoroughly enjoyed this documentaey. kudos to all involved!

[@sydsacks9097]

Brilliant documentary; combines the political, historical, military and aviation dimensions.

[@pavelneuzil6457]

Not that precise, overall it is fine, there are still a few points which could be made better way. Chinese had no intention of supporting North Korea as they give a damn about North Korea (I live in China BTW). But USA troops directly at Chinese border is different story. Regardless, Chinese were not super keep to fight anyway, but USSR promised air plane support. Also Chinese government severally warned USA not to approach Yalu river. As usual, USA had some hearing problem (as they always have) thus Chinese explained by force, which is the only way USA understands. Also the "UN" troops were assigned by UN only because of USSR miscalculation that their representative walked away from UN security council meeting. USSR could veto the UN resolution and thus it would have to be USA forces, not UN forces.

[@Kruglik_Igor]

@@pavelneuzil6457 That's right, my friend! That's right! Thank you, I shake your hand for honesty.

[@attilakovacs5803]

Very interesting documentary! Thank you so much!

[@abelewin2855]

Listening to you, it was as exiting as watching a great movie. It was pleasure from the beginning till the end.

[@bitrage.]

The billiards thing soooo cool and you know this kind of thing will NEVER EVER happen again nowadays..

[@KCJAM1]

They should be thanking Alexander Lippish and Kurt Tank for the Mig-15! Looks like the TA-183 with a Soviet marking on it.

[@Kruglik_Igor]

Well, who should the Americans thank for the F-86? Not those same German engineers?

[@lawrencefox563]

@@Kruglik_Igor Yes same German engineers should be thanked for TA183 FW but with Rolls-Royce turbine in case of Russians , surely British gave this technology to USA?

[@lawrencefox563]

Krooglik Igor

[@Kruglik_Igor]

@@lawrencefox563 Wrong. According to the international rules of translation, proper names cannot be translated and are written without change. Your spelling is correct, but it contradicts these rules. According to the rules you must remove the "...oo..." and replace it with "...u...", then it will be correct, but it will not read correctly.

[@bergssprangare]

Wrong..Kurt Tank was the designer and he was active in Argentina and created the follow up plane : FMA IAe 33 Pulqui II

[@davidhouston4810]

A remarkable Achievement, that changed air warfare, simply stunning.

[@mikesmith-wk7vy]

It was a huge mistake for England to give the soviets that engine , denying them that would have set them back years and saved lives in Korea and Vietnam

[@wongsoongcheng1245]

The Rolls Royce Nene engine was donated by the Labour govt to USSR to show solidarity but instead Mikoyan refined it and turned it into the RD 45 to power the Mig 15.

[@stewartdapple2160]

You could look at it as an extension of centuries of British diplomatic efforts not to allow one country to get too powerful (historically France and Germany in Europe) modified to a global level. Britain did provide the USA with jet engines too - the first Pratt & Whitney jets were copies of Rolls-Royce designs

[@samhunt9380]

Labour everywhere have always had a close "relationship" with Communist countries. They are little better than traitors, still; are....

[@The44439]

@@wongsoongcheng1245 尼恩发动机就是RD-45，苏联的改进型号叫VK-1A

[@michaelpielorz9283]

the british radial engine was still outdated.

[@fourleafcloveer5011]

Mr. No Kumsak didn't have kids. But he had a very big Kumsak as a pilot.

[@collinriley4976]

You slipped in only two quick shots of the La-15, which shows much more care than most documentarians. The La-15 competitor to the MiG-15 was thought by some to be a superior airplane but was rejected in competition because it was more complicated and harder to maintain. (I was in Okinawa just a year after the captured MiG was tested there. So close!)

[@GarandNewbie]

He didn't make the video. It's an old Military Channel documentary. kzbin.info/www/bejne/a6Pcq2iDqpqakKM

[@dhy5342]

This brought to mind my visit in 1993 to the Latrobe PA airport (LBE) [now named Arnold Palmer Regional Airport] where a fellow had five MIG-15s in a hanger in various stages of (dis)assembly along with one MIG-17. I don't know the planes' full story, but seeing this small Russian air force up close was impressive. I believe they were purchased from the Polish Air Force for something like 50K ea. I understand four of the 15's and the one 17 were sold with one 15 being retained. Current whereabouts are unknown but any on the airshow circuit may be traced back to these.

[@lucasRem-ku6eb]

Waterloo Warbirds, now, one of them fly's too !

[@jerrywatt6813]

In the early 90's I was working at Lucas aviation it was a F B O at Goleta Airport out side Santa Barbara California, there a man had a mig 15 painted just like a soviet one red star and all , I only saw it take off once it climbed out very fast and quite steep angle of attack , it struck how small it was but it was fun to have seen that's for sure !

[@Menaceblue3]

Weird.... I remember being in the Civil Air Patrol and doing a local air show duty in south Jersey when I was a kid.... I saw the same Mig 15 that's painted red with a Soviet star on it, was that the same aircraft? 🤔

[@steve-real]

Isn’t that odd? that an Armenian, a Ukrainian and the British built the MIG-15. That’s some history no one knows about

[@mohammadkarimzai8057]

A wonderful history of aviators and I have like 👍 too much

[@lomasck]

It just looks Perfect anyway.

[@steven2212]

Just loved this. Very well done.

[@samuellp1146]

I am sure the US Generals were cussing under their breath about England selling RR jet trade secrets to USSR for gold. I read England was hurting financially after the war, they'd sell to anyone for gold. That said, the Soviets in that era took the RR Nene engine and reengineered it like this video doc described it.

[@xzqzq]

Churchill had been turned out at the end of WWII, and was not in a position to block the transfer of British jet technology to the USSR.

[@michaelpielorz9283]

The Rolls Royce radial jet engine was still outdated because since 1942 it was obvious the future belongs to the axial engines.even the british dropped their beloved radials , but it took them 5 years to copy the german designs.

[@neilperry2224]

That's what we get for putting a labour government in power, we got a white elephant of the millennium tent. Sorry dome. 😞 But the Americans used our jet engines in their earliest jets like the P80 Shooting Star.

[@ismailmukooza2005]

It's un-true 😜. "The Russian created their miG....."Them selves. "

[@scottsuttan2123]

Ya German v2 were laughed at as far as a rocket science to Russian engineering... Russians saw them as poorly designed same as MIG fighter's more advanced then western jets

[@Mr.Swann.]

@@michaelpielorz9283 Really .. ? .. shan't argue .. will just suggest that you read for yourself what type of jet engines 'Metropolitan-Vickers' were developing; ('Metrovic' .. thought that I'd better give you their full name, just in case you thought that 'Metrovic' sounded .. 'a bit Soviet' !!) .. Metrovic were developing axial flow gas turbines from 1943; (by the way, there's no such thing as a 'radial' gas turbine .. think about why that has to be true for yourself; in ALL gas turbines the 'moving bits, (compressor blades or centrifugal compressor), are set 'radially'; how could they not be ? .. BOTH types are set on to, and spin ROUND WITH the shaft); the 'other type' of gas turbines, (i.e. .. not axial flow engines), are known as 'centrifugal flow' gas turbines, (as the air is drawn in, and compressed by flinging it OUTWARDS, (then back to mix it with fuel in the combustors), as opposed to, (in an axial flow design), 'squeezing it' progressively more and more, HORIZONALLY, ALONG the engine, with several compressor wheels on the same shaft, each with many closely packed compressor blades around each wheel's circumference, before routeing the compressed air to the combustors to be mixed with fuel and ignited. 'Metrovic', being aware of Frank Whittle's centrifugal flow designs, came up with the 'other way' of compressing air in a gas turbine, (being axially), themselves; they did not, (and in 1943, could not have), copy German axial flow designs. Both the Germans and 'Metrovic' developed this idea, independently, (although 'Metrovic' DID, 'compare notes' as it were, after the war to see what the Germans had been up to !) Finally, before dismissing centrifugal flow gas turbines, please be aware that the compression ratio of a centrifugal compressor is far greater than that of an axial compressor, (which is why axial compressors need multiple stages whilst a centrifugal compressor needs only one), and axial flow types 'won the day' in terms of what types are in use today, logically, because one just can't keep making a single stage centrifugal wheel bigger and bigger ! .. (one CAN, however, keep adding more compressor wheels along a shaft, each with more turbine blades packed more closely around their circumferences, axially, hence that's the way things went.) Glad to clarify that for you, Mr.Swann, Devon, South-West England.

[@charliecharliecharliecharl8554]

Excellent history , the narrator is very good , History repeating itself proxy wars

[@Topper_Harley68]

No hydraulics on the control surfaces was a big problem at higher speeds.

[@alexm566]

and limited visibility cockpit too

[@pjht0488]

The MiG-15 is a neat-looking little jet-aeroplane.

[@wearetomorrowspast.5617]

What an elegant machine. A machine of death, ok but what a cool-looking plane.

[@Chiller01]

I recall that the US Saber pilots could tell when they had engaged a Russian pilot vs a North Korean pilot because the Russians were so good. The US pilots called them Honchos. I also recall that as the war went on the Soviet pilots that were WW2 veterans were rotated home and were replaced by younger pilots without combat experience. The US pilots then had the experience advantage.

[@mdesm2005]

I almost left the channel after the first 10 sec of "acid rock", or what ever that noise was. Then a copy of professional disciplined documentary appeared.

[@Roman-nu1om]

same here

[@m.aguirre6640]

That makes 3 of us

[@mbryson2899]

That wasn't acid rock at all. It was bluegrass-gospel contemporary fusion.

[@Bearkiller72]

🤷 That's what you get for watching a boot legged documentary... 😁😉

[@douglaspriest2770]

Lol... sound like modern country music to me

[@bluebear6570]

The MiG 15 is basically a Focke-Wulf TA 83, a design of 1944.

[@hertzair1186]

The F-86 was basically a German design. Designed by German engineer Edgar Schmued, who also designed the Mustang. The MiG-15 was also based on an German design, Kurt Tanks’s Ta-183.

[@rayswann7618]

I thought ford designed the mustang

[@billenright2788]

@@rayswann7618 ;)

[@billenright2788]

also the F-100

[@Robert_Keel]

US citizen, not German.

[@georgebarnes8163]

@@Robert_Keel also a German and Brazilian citizen

[@alcoyne3333333333333]

I'd prefer to just hear about the Mig 15 and not the one sided politics. But thanks for uploading 👍

[@randylplampin1326]

Two questions from a neophyte: (1) What was the US reaction when they discovered the British selling the Rolls-Royce engine; (2) What is the reason why the Mig15 can reach 50K feet and the F86 not?

[@brothergrimaldus3836]

1) None too happy. Remember the deal was brokered by a British Communist. They were supposed to use the engines for non military use. You can see how well that worked out. 2) Centrifical compressor engines had a longer development and better materials than the coaxial flow jet engines that the F86 used. The MiG 15 also had a lower sweep angle for more lift. So it had better thrust to weight and more lift.

[@mikecimerian6913]

There is also a tale about gummy shoe soles and turbine blade machine shavings during the same visits to British plants.

[@achatcueilleur5746]

US has been using the British Rolls-Royce engine same way

[@DavidW27]

(1)Muted - take into context it was 1946 and the Soviet Union was still an "ally". Tensions were building over the fate of eastern Europe but it was before the advent of the Truman Doctrine of 1947 and the start of what we now call the "cold war." Also, as a centrifugal flow engine - a development of the Derwent that powered the Meteor - the Nene wasn't the "latest tech", it was already being perceived by the western powers as a dead-end-street compared to the axial flow designs such as the RR Avon or GE J47. The capabilities of the the MiG were down to its advanced airframe as much as the Nene engine. (2) "Wing Loading". The MiG had a lower wing loading which gave it a better rate of climb, ceiling and sustained turn than the early sabres.

[@randylplampin1326]

@@DavidW27 Thank you for sharing.

[@Captain_Kickass-l1f]

Watched for the content, subscribed for the music.

[@et76039]

31:43 "...one pilot ejected after he crossed the front line by mistake...." This would have been about June 1953. The MiG pilot in question had been flying nap-of-the-earth while trying to evade an F-86, so close that the two Marines who saw him buzz their unit could clearly see that he was not Asian. They had momentarily discussed shooting the plane with their M1s, but decided not to, since they hadn't been trained in aircraft identification. The MiG popped up to avoid the head of the canyon he was flying in, with the F-86 in hot pursuit. The commander of the artillery battery he had just buzzed listened to the dogfight on the radio, along with three other Marines. Why the USAF hasn't acknowledged this dogfight is a little puzzling.

[@NorwayT]

Fascinating anecdote! Thanks, Mr. Ed! I always find these small anecdotes interesting because they "paint in the gaps" as it were and makes the whole picture of that period in History come more to life. 👍

[@et76039]

@@NorwayT, the reason I know about it because one of the Marines was my uncle. It took several months of research to confirm his story, but the confirmation came from a KZbin video. The KZbin video had the name of the Russian pilot, who survived being shot down, but committed suicide as American ground troops closed in.. My uncle was one of the four listening to the radio channel used by the F-86 pilot when the MiG got shot down. He was unaware of the details of the MiG pilot's fate, until I told him. Also, he was the one who was afraid that the plane might be British, hence his reluctance to shoot at it. He said that pilot was just as surprised to see them as vice versa, and he was close enough to see that the pilot was no [Asian]. He said the guy was white (as in race), and therefore presumed to be Russian. You can find bits and pieces of this in the histories of the 11th Marine Regiment, which is an artillery unit. However, I couldn't find enough to create a coherent picture from those sources. The unit that the MiG buzzed was a 105mm gun battery; if you know anything about howitzers, then you know that the Russian pilot was a few miles on the American side of the lines. Why those four Marines were never debriefed is open to speculation; maybe it just wasn't known that they were listening in or had seen anything. Also, still a mystery why the American Air Force hasn't acknowledged this. The F-86 pilot might have had a Southern accent.

[@NorwayT]

@@et76039 I figured you either had been there yourself or knew someone who had. I'm a Medical Officer, and we used the very same 105mm howitzers ourselves, so I figure that pale Russian was well inside the US/Allied lines. I have occasionally come across stories where downed crews have been heavily attacked by their own "Honchos" to hide the fact that they operated in a conflict they had no business operating in. That's Communism for ya'. I can't say I blame them for not opening fire. Fratricide is a horrible thing, even though the chances of hitting a jet is slim. As for why they were never debriefed, you can probably put that down to the Fog of War. Their report may easily have gotten lost on the way up the chain, accidentally, because it was deemed of lesser importance than other theater information at the time or simply because the top brass didn't want to have confirmed reports, as it would mean an automatic escalation into something more dangerous. Personally I find the meddling in both the Korean and Vietnam Wars disgusting. If the yellow bellies in DC had gotten out of the way and let the US/Allied Forces win those conflicts, they would have been won, and Freedom would have been the better off for it. But we know that the "Democrat" cabinets of the era were heavily infiltrated by "fellow travellers" which kept on handing victory after victory to their Comrades on the other side. God Bless your uncle and the US Marine Corps! And God Bless You, Sir, for keeping History and their sacrifice alive for future generations!

[@darcychu9652]

@@NorwayT This is why Senator McCarthy started the sweeping of Ammerian Communists out of United states. In facts, quite a few commie rats were swept from State Department that misled the faulty policy resulting to the fall of China to Mao Communist.

[@Milkmans_Son]

​@@et76039 I'm confused. He killed himself because he thought the Americans would torture him? Why did he think that? The Russians had to know that, unlike Germany, the US and UK treated captured air crews pretty well.

[@sirholycow]

What an amazing documentary, many thanks for sharing this.

[@MostlyPennyCat]

I'm curious if it's an American show redubbed.

[@GarandNewbie]

@@MostlyPennyCat It's an old Military Channel documentary. kzbin.info/www/bejne/a6Pcq2iDqpqakKM

[@Moontanthefirst]

Did the Soviets capture any details from the German TA 183 at the end of the war? I’d bet they did. They look very similar indeed. The mig 15 was likely a German designed a/c powered by a Rolls Royce copy engine!

[@Kruglik_Igor]

Doesn't the F-86 look like that? You're so stupid...

[@lapantony]

USSR already had several jet fighter designs in service by the time MiG-15 came around, there wasn't really a need to copy a hasty German design. Similarities are shared between the majority of jet fighters of the time

[@Kruglik_Igor]

@@lapantony Антон, этим буржуям что-то объяснять, а тем более доказывать бессмысленно. Они упертые и с хорошо промытыми мозгами (за редким исключением). Они уверены, что только Европа и Запад умеют что-то делать, а все остальные, в том числе и Россия у них воруют. И переубедить их невозможно. Так что особо не тратьте свое время и знания. Метать бисер перед свиньями...

[@Jean-Pierre-Villard]

Operation Osoaviakhim was the russian version of operation paperclip !

[@thewedge8823]

A Ukrainian and an Armenian designed this aircraft... and all headed by a country ran by a Georgian!! This was the power of the USSR... Different nationalities coming together because they all had 1 ideology. To better the motherland!

[@kevindorland738]

Western world during those years, to long, thought the Soviet Union would eventually act house broke.

[@robwernet9609]

Stalin was originally from Georgia 🇬🇪? Never knew that.

[@harrison00xXx]

The first plane which went supersonic was the Me 163 B. It nearly fell apart, but hey it did it!

[@jesperviktorsson8027]

Its been proven time and time again.. There are numerous technical limitations why it wont

[@michaelpielorz9283]

Only in your dreams.

[@garrington120]

NO IT DID NOT !!!

[@harrison00xXx]

@@garrington120 Source: Trust me?! Or are you just mad at german engineering?

[@garrington120]

@@harrison00xXx No lol , Just trust me . The ME 262 was a formidable aircraft and way ahead of its time and thank god the war did not go beyond 1945 as heaven only knows what the incredible German technicians could have come up with thereafter .. The 163 by pure aerodynamic logic would not have achieved Mach 1 in level flight at any altitude . I can accept that possibly in a powered dive it could have conceivably crossed Mach 1 but there is no proof and only supposition

[@din0kill]

My university lecturer flew them in Vietnam and loved them. I always loved the f4 more them tiger sharks.

[@jfb3567]

The Mig-15 was designed by Siegfried Gunther The Rolls Royce engines were obtained under “irresistible pressure”

[@urmo345]

engine was copy but no, i doubt german engineer was allowed to design super secret project. He may have been involved without knowing the bigger picture.

[@jfb3567]

Let me know if you can read my reply, comments getting deleted and shadow banned Posting links immediately get deleted

[@jfb3567]

It was deleted

[@jfb3567]

Ill try again

[@jfb3567]

I had to delete the author’s name after the post was repeatedly erased. “Error” message of course. These responses might be shadow banned, let me know if they can be read-

[@Т1000-м1и]

Watched at 3 AM!

[@stevepodleski]

The ME262 was not the basis for the Mig jets but a FW concept design that as the engine inside the fuselage.

[@georgebarnes8163]

The Russians simply bolted wings onto the engine and engine housing that the British sold them, more of a mistake than anything else but it worked.

[@jimporter7602]

Got to see a Mig 115 at Homestead AFB in 69, flew in from Cuba

[@martinprehjan9944]

Yup Mikoyan gave the Mig-15 to the world! Leave it to a fellow Armenian to create/design something truly great and unique from out of nowhere!

[@hudsonslim3169]

Given Churchill's known distrust of the Soviets, I'm sure he was livid when he heard about the Rolls Royce engine deal.

[@georgebarnes8163]

at least the Russians paid for the British tech, the Yanks on the other hand did not.

[@kenneth9874]

@@georgebarnes8163 how much did the brits pay for the yank technology that saved their country?

[@georgebarnes8163]

@@kenneth9874 What tech was that? and the UK had already defeated Germany in the Battle of Britain forcing Hitler to call of his invasion of the UK before the US even entered the war.

[@BrushCountryAg06]

I LOVED THE ESCAPE & DEFECTION STORY AT THE END! ❤️

[@ronaldhanlon5516]

The Russians already had their own jet engines in production - mostly direct copies of German Jumo 004 (named the Klimov RD-10) or BMW 003 jet engines. These powered the early Soviet jets, like the MiG-9 or Yak-15. In 1946, the British government, not yet openly hostile to the USSR, agreed to sell them some Rolls-Royce Nene engines as a goodwill gesture. Stafford Cripps agreed to have Rolls-Royce transfer some engines, to the surprise of Stalin, however they were not to be used in military applications, though these were far more powerful than those the USSR was producing at the time. By 1947, as relations deteriorated between the two countries rapidly, the Soviets managed to copy the engine, something that would only be discovered years later. The Soviets didn't know the exact metal alloys used in the engine, so made some modifications, producing the Klimov RD-45 and the larger VK-1. These quickly became the main Soviet jet engines by the late 1940s, and were vital in many of their most important aircraft, such as the MiG-15 and Il-28.

[@achatcueilleur5746]

But russians didn't have than and don't have now their own car and truck engines. Go figure.

[@jfb3567]

Try reading “Antony Sutton’s “Western Technology And Soviet Economic Development” Trilogy

[@achatcueilleur5746]

@@jfb3567 Who can afford wasting time for pulp fiction these days?

[@kennethhawley1063]

I have always believed that Stafford Cripps was a Russian agent (his background is very similar to other spies of that era eg Burgess and McLean,. The British Government line is that he was never found to have passed information to the Russians. I agree he was not a spy, he was too important for that, but I believe he was an agent; someone who climbed to a high position in the British Government, who could make decisions and influence policies to the advantage of the Soviet Union. This is the only rational reason he would sell the Rolls Royce engines to the Soviet Union.

[@garynew9637]

@@achatcueilleur5746 wanker lol

[@kharish191]

Russians always outclass the western weapons as proved superiority over USA ,UK and all rest of the world. What a brilliance those Russians have in every weaponry. Salute you Russian designers to give this world a class of beautiful aircrafts.

[@penzlic]

One the things that Soviet (and later Russians) never abandoned is inclusion of guns in figher aircrafts (except of MiG-21, but that was probably cost cutting rather than anything else*) instead of making all in on missile/radar combo like West did- and West did that wrong, later introducing guns in fighters. *I know that MiG-25 didn't have gun also some of Sukhois

[@Raptor747]

That's not really a fair comparison. The only US jet fighter that was designed without guns that entered frontline service was the F-4 Phantom. However, this was a reasonable design choice because the F-4 was designed from the very start as a high-speed bomber interceptor; WW2 showed how gunfire was a very problematic way to take down heavy bombers efficiently, so the F-4 carried a lot of missiles. Those missiles were fine against bombers flying at high altitude; they were not yet ready to take on all of the problems of hitting faster, smaller, more agile fighters at lower altitudes with ground clutter and a hot environment. But before, during, and after, the US fielded fighter jets with strong gun armaments. The Crusader was a fighter that had guns as its primary armament. The A-1 Skyraider had a lot of guns. The F-86? Lots of guns. The Super Saber? Lots of guns. Notably, the Soviet fighters would put greater emphasis on missiles over time; even the MiG-21 had limited ammo for its guns and could only support short-range heat-seeker missiles.

[@evilenergy7121]

Incredible airplane design then

[@axiomist4488]

I've always thought it a very beautiful plane ,

[@garynew9637]

I stood next to a mig 15 at an airshow. They are very small.

[@urmo345]

"one hit could destroy an saber" Not in war thunder LOL

[@LupusAries]

It is a well known fact, that......War Thunder's damage modelling is wonky as fuck!😉 Or as me and a polish friend put it gottverdammte Scheiße Kurwa Macj!🤣😂🤣 Bigger calibre guns severely underperform in WT, same with the MK108 in 109s or 190s, they should kill or mess up any fighter they hit to no factor status, including 190s or P-47s, in one hit, but they struggle to kill aircraft a time.

[@markzap5131]

Amazing that that Brits we're so accomadating in allowing Mig to tour their jet engine facility and then the topper, sending them the engine!. The U.S. and certain presidential administrations have done likewise with our defense secrets.

[@vernedavis5856]

mig 15, 100kills, 224 sabres lost tho, f86 , unknown, 566 migs downed. you'd never know by this drama.

[@Richard_K1630]

Beautiful Machines.

[@yakitaki26]

This plane is so biased in War Thunder. Very strong aircraft.

[@whateverjones5473]

Yes, F-86 pilots were told to make a MiG 15 go into a hard turn, at which time they would be uncontrolable.

[@Kruglik_Igor]

Read it, moron, and don't write any more nonsense... By early May 1952 the study of the captured F-86 was completed. The consolidated report was approved by the IAP and Air Force leadership in the middle of the month and was sent to the Council of Ministers of the USSR on 23 May. Of particular interest is the assessment given by TsAGI specialists: "The F-86A aircraft has basically satisfactory aerodynamic characteristics in all modes of flight up to M = 0.93-0.94. Tests of its models... show that from M = 0.8 the F-86A has a sharp drag in the dive, and at M > 0.9 a sharp decrease in rudder effectiveness. ... Satisfactory flight data of the aircraft at high flight speeds (M > 0.8) are achieved with a controlled stabilizer, and at high angles of attack - with winglets, distributed over the entire wingspan. The aircraft has large ailerons that provide good lateral control at both low and high flight speeds... The airplane is equipped with large brake flaps that increase the drag of the airplane about three times without changing the longitudinal stability characteristics. Boosters are used to control ailerons and rudder, which provide acceptable control characteristics without the use of specially designed aerodynamic compensation. A feature of the layout of the F-86A is the use of the old scheme with the low position of the wing, which allowed to achieve satisfactory lateral stability characteristics with a small relative area of the vertical tail. In addition, this scheme allowed the horizontal tail to be separated from the vertical tail and placed it on the fuselage. However, this aerodynamic layout on the F-86A did not eliminate the sharp drag in a dive and required the use of an in-flight controlled stabilizer. ... At M = 0.93-0.94 there is a loss of rudder and aileron efficiency... Therefore, M = 0.94 is the maximum permissible... for normal operation... A comparison of the aerodynamic characteristics of the F-86A and MiG-15bis models shows that their drag coefficients and lift in the range of angles of attack up to α = 14° are almost identical. The F-86A has a larger size, higher flight weight and an engine with less thrust than the MiG-15bis. Computational data show that the F-86A is somewhat inferior to the MiG-15 in maximum speed at low altitudes and significantly inferior in vertical speed and rate of climb at all altitudes. The dive speeds of the F-86A and the MiG-15bis with open handbrakes are almost identical, but in horizontal flight the F-86A braked harder than the MiG-15bis. The calculated destructive overload... is about 12 ..., which coincides with the design overloads established for this class of aircraft by our strength standards. ..." The conclusion of the TsAGI engineers stated: "As a result of ... studies ... it was found that the scheme and aerodynamic configuration of the airplane are of no special interest, except for the application of: a radio altimeter combined with an optical sight, increased area brake flaps, a booster in the RV control system, effective landing mechanization in the form of a slit flap.

[@billpugh58]

Yes, and the MIGs could safely wait at 50.000 feet and choose when to attack the F86s that couldn’t climb so high!

[@whateverjones5473]

@@billpugh58 That is also why P-40 pilots in China stayed at low altitude, because they were able to tear up the Zeroes. But with a 10-1 kill ratio, I think the F-86 did well.

[@g.h.9117]

Well, if you you admire the F15 and F86 you must thank Mr. Messerschmitt for their successful designs. USA and the Siviet Unioun rapidly stole and employed German Aerospace engineers and design concepts which eventually became the Jet fighter race of the 50's and 60's. Aero space buffs all go back to the Me P1101 jet fighter which got developed into the Bell X5, F86, Mig 15. Dank schoen Mr. Messerschmitt!

[@TheBuckStopsHere480]

Messerschmitt had nothing to do with the design of the F-15. The F-15 is a product of McDonnell-Douglas, and its chief designers were George Graff and Don Malvern.

[@donaldtrumplover2254]

Why would someone thank a nazi?

[@nickngunjiri4282]

Including tech of space shuttle

[@lawrencefox563]

Look at Fokkerwulf TA 183 but fitted with Wittle

[@jupiterjunk]

My collogue told me the Russian team that visited Rolls Royce all had those soft soled shoes. Took multiple samples from multiple areas, using different parts of the shoe and different team members. Back at their hotel they removed the samples, labeled them, and sent them back via diplomatic courier. A bit more involved, but the point is made in the film.

[@rickuyeda4818]

You can thank the British for the Mig 15. The Soviets couldn't get a jet engine to work. The British invited the Soviets to visit their jet engine facility. The problem the Soviets had was the metal to build jet engine fans. The Soviets gladly accepted and plan to steal metal shavings from the factory floor by wearing soft sole shoes. Instead the British gave the Soviets license to build their engines.

[@collinriley4976]

I think the Sabre used the same basic engine.

[@vumba1331]

The US jet engines were based on the German axial compressor design and that's why they left a smoke trail, weren't that efficient at burning the fuel. The British Nene design used a centrifugal compressor and it was far more efficient, hence no smoke. This led to the pilots using the tell tale smoke trail, or lack of, to identify the friend or foe aircraft in the initial stages of contact.

[@jfb3567]

F-86 used the Pratt & Whitney licensed copy of the same Rolls Royce Nene

[@johnjephcote7636]

Their thick crepe rubber soles, when rotated on the factory floor, gathered up enough metal shavings to make an analysis.

[@jfb3567]

They obtained 55 complete engines-the metal shavings story sounds like a fairy tale. They obtained the engines under “irresistible pressure”-

[@adamfrazer5150]

Sidebar : I miss the warm, relaxed lighting of these old interviews 🤔

[@samuelbailey1888]

The MiG 15 looks very like one of he Germans designs that were released after WW2.

[@petersmith6794]

The first MiGs had Rolls Royce Neme engines , given to them by the British…

[@СтепанОсипов-г7н]

April 12, 1951 Soviet aces showed how to do it

[@adversereactor2253]

I always thought it was beautiful in it's own way.

[@parttimetourist]

They took a jet engine and built a plane around it

[@TheBuckStopsHere480]

Yes. The famous "flying stovepipe" design.

[@parttimetourist]

@@TheBuckStopsHere480 Was it cooking on Gas? lol

[@georgebarnes8163]

as did the yanks.

[@ViperGTS737]

Russian pilots seem so much better spoken and grounded than American pilots

[@darbyheavey406]

Got to hand it to the Russians…..durable elegant design. The Brits gave them the engine amazingly- stupidity at its best.

[@rogerpattube]

We are all socialists, comrade. 😀

[@catherineharris4746]

Biden's beating everyone on being the stupidest in judgment decisions!😞

[@MostlyPennyCat]

Of course, stupid or not, it made no difference in the end. Apart from a couple of wins, the MiG15, the space race, powerful early valve computers, the USSR then spent 40 years falling behind and failing. All because Stalin wanted to be in charge and control the entire "economy". Has they been more centre left, the situation could well have been reversed.

[@johnhudghton2287]

The USA had not exactly encouraged a positive relationship with themselves. Little recipricocity on technical progressions, particularly nuclear weapons after WWII. "Arms and supplies shipped to Britain in 1940-41 required payment on the nail and thus liquidation of British assets in the U.S. at fire-sale prices." We were threadbare while the USA profiteered from arms sales. We were forced into seceding our empire. Now if that is the way an ally relates - remember Suez also - no wonder a socialist government might want to warm to Russia. Perhaps if the USA had been as generous to us as they were towards the defeated enemy post 1945 it might have been different. As it is the relationship was very much to Britains disadvantage and perhaps the conditions of this relationship encouraged ties with the Soviets. Perhaps stupidity works both ways?

[@raconteur5195]

@@johnhudghton2287 Unfortunately, othing that the USA might have shared with Britain was safe from communist traitors and sympathizers.

[@leegacy3099]

Without the dumbphark British gift of the Rolls Royce engine, the Mig 15 would have been a nothing burger.

[@genetomblin2883]

The Mig 15 was fast but suffered stability problems at the top of it's speed range. The F 86 could in a dog fight push the Mig into it's unstable high speed range giving the saber an advantage. The F80 was not fast enough to use this advantage. The later Mig 17 did not have the instability problem. The best sabers were the Australian Avon powered saber The R R Avon was a better engine.

[@AJKecsk]

Lack of hydraulically-assisted control surfaces. At the top of the MiG's speed range, the force of the airflow on the control surfaces made them nigh-impossible to move with only the pilot's muscle power.

[@BenState]

@@AJKecsk it was more the fact that the control surfaces invert. avionics was not up to scratch for a lot of 1.5 gen fighters.

[@darcychu9652]

Mig-15 has the tendency of being unable to pull up in fast dive chasing. This was how the F-86 pilots of Republic of China used to lure Mig-15 of Mao Communist into fast dive chasing, then F-86 pulled up at final stage in the dog fights across Taiwan strait.

[@Kruglik_Igor]

@@darcychu9652 Yes, they were "noble" warriors. On October 10, 1958 there was a battle between eight MiGs and six Sabers over Fujian Province. The Chinese pilot Du Fengyu shot down two F-86s before he was shot down. He ejected and was simply DISTRIBUTED IN THE AIR as he parachuted down. However, this fighter didn't get away either - it was shot down by PLA anti-aircraft guns. Even among Luftwaffe pilots this was considered a disgraceful act. Up to and including discharge from the Air Force. Butchers, not warriors...

[@trooperdgb9722]

I was really confused by the guy they named as Valentin Bondarenko.... having read several accounts of the , presumably better known Valentin(Vasylovich) Bondarenko's Soviet Air Force career...selection as a Cosmonaut...and death in a 1961 training accident. A somewhat eerie coincidence!

[@ArchGBUStanton]

Anyone know what came of the Mig 15 that was turned over to the U.S.? Is it on display, destroyed, etc.?

[@JhyKasino1947]

@ ArchGBUStanton . I think that Mig-15 is on display in the Air and Space museum in Washington D C .

[@sausidethtran4518]

God be with the Viking Queen. I love the flying fighting goose. I was used to work with the ink cartridges from the British Canada Company in America. I would think of how strong the dynamic water flow through the cylinder hole with the powerful fan machine. I would say the water flow is such forceful and good luck.

[@makut4154]

British hospitality 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@TBHaru1]

Can't help but notice how closely the Mig 15 resembles a Focke-Wulf Ta 183 🤨.

[@clydecessna737]

The sale of the Nene's plans and the pattern engines were debated at the Cabinet. British Socialist government simply saw the USSR, a wartime ally, as a fraternal socialist partner.

[@MostlyPennyCat]

Unsuspecting that the Soviets were ultimately an authoritarian dictatorship.

[@johnburns4017]

There was no conflict or Cold War at the time. Nothing to do with socialism. BTW, the USSR was _Communist_ not socialist.

[@johnaustin6067]

The 4 fences on the tops of the wings are a brand new Mandella Efect for me

[@iangreenhalgh9280]

British engine, German design, the guns were entirely Russian though...

[@marvwatkins7029]

Soviets and Russians made and make quality weapons platforms.

[@johnhudghton2287]

🤣

[@allgood6760]

Cool!.. my mates dad ejected from. a Mig 15 when he was in the Bulgarian Air Force

[@sangkang6294]

Oddly enough, it was the Soviet that found the stealth technology and never got around to implementing it.

[@alexm566]

they didn't have the computers supposedly

[@georgebarnes8163]

I doubt it, the British were using the wooden wonder Mosquito during WW2, the original stealth aircraft in so many ways.

[@JB-rt4mx]

Mig 15 was 80% a Kurt Tank design from his project files when Germany surrendered..1945

[@Crashed131963]

Somebody copied somebody. Whats the chances of the Mig-15 and Saber looking so much alike?