The Streaming Age Has a Writers Problem

[@insertcoolnamelater9334]

It always baffled me in recent years how companies would spend more and more millions on production and special effects, while completely disregarding good scripts. This explains it well.

[@meikahidenori]

they don't pay much on the special effects front, especially when stuff goes wrong. many of them pay those changes out of pocket and suffer for it.

[@FULANODETAL]

i can imagine amazon,,,so what experience you got?...errr i never wrote one scrpt ..ok youll write that 1b dollar production...

[@ErgoProxy12345]

@@FULANODETAL "i wrote a fanfic once and im a gay woman of color" Marvel: you are hired. Here is 100 millions.

[@FULANODETAL]

@@ErgoProxy12345 Also the NETFLIX resident evil writters.."We never played videogamed"... NETFLIX..ok you hired..

[@brachiator1]

Writers have always been considered almost an afterthought, since the history of the movies.

[@mrsniffles5417]

Says a lot about the state of the industry when the writers hired to write a courtroom drama don't know how courts work, and there isn't the time for said writers to properly research it.

[@Darren_Mooney]

To be fair, it's not knowing how courts work. That's simple research. It's being able to write courtroom scenes that are dramatically compelling. It's a different skillset. You can't just show how courts work, you have to make the actual show fun to watch. Obviously, that's very possible. There's a reason that courtroom dramas are so popular. But it's a skill that people hone, like any other. It takes practice and experience, as well as innate talent. The problem is that these shows aren't recruiting the writers with that experience to work on them.

[@TheOnlyBloke]

I swear, a simple 10-minute phone call with the crew who worked on Better Call Saul would have done wonders for She-Hulk, even if only for the actual courtroom scenes.

[@Darren_Mooney]

@@TheOnlyBloke Yep. Or just hire one of them! Pay them what they’re worth!

[@Kryto_Gaming]

@@Darren_Mooney Good takes. In She-Hulk I feel as if they ended up with the worst of all worlds. Imagine if you could pick a realistic but boring courtroom scene vs a nonsensical but entertaining one, not a bad choice either way..... However I felt as if their court scenes were both nonsensical and boring, a really unfortunate combo.

[@storymark]

I took that as a tongue in cheek line about how they were still expected to do a superhero show, myself. Im kinda surprised at how many took it so literally, Darren included.

[@UnreasonableOpinions]

This is what happens when TV isn't seen as a creative endeavour but 'content'. A creative work requires something in the way of vision, a unifying concept or theme for the rest of the creative team to rally around and aim towards since it is impossible for one or even a small number of people to micromanage every single aspect of a show. Content, on the other hand, is just a checklist of what makes someone turn on the TV and the absence of anything that will make them decide not to turn it off even if they're not watching. When craft is expendable, the price of craftsmen becomes another line item to reduce. And unlike directors and actors, the vast majority of people couldn't name even two TV or film writers, so there's no marketing value to pay that off.

[@StigmataTickles]

I appreciate the lack of vitriol and aggression of this video. Most TV critics on youtube will just go full attack mode on productions they take issue with, without any empathy for the people behind the scenes who are just doing what they can with what they have.

[@Darren_Mooney]

Yeah, it was important to both of us that this isn’t a dig at particular shows or particular creatives, but rather a look at the larger systemic issues that lead to the larger problem. I’m on record, for example, thinking that it’s great that Gao can talk about the problems she faced in writing “She-Hulk”, because those problems need to be acknowledged before they can be fixed.

[@addex1236]

While respect your stance I feel like your giving the writers to much of a pass when a lot problem to me is that these shows are being written by clear narcissists and acting like they themselves haven't taken antagonistic stances just my two cents

[@listener709]

That's difficult when you are called ists or isms

[@gwen9939]

@@listener709 It's difficult when one entitled self-invited party to the discussion won't stop self-victimizing for half the conversation while spewing endless mouth sewage about "Woke SJWs diversity quotas in my streaming shows fall of western civilization wahmen empowerment" for the other half. This is going to come as a shock to you, but many, many people are able to go through life, participate in online discussions, and freely speak their minds, and almost never experience being called any "ists" or "isms". Introspection is hard work, but maybe it's the work you need to do.

[@Bustermachine]

@@listener709 Are you though? I should be sitting smack dab in the middle of the people that are supposedly being trash talked and bashed by She-Hulk . . . Yet having watched the entire show, I didn't feel attacked. Nor have I been attacked in fandom communities when I said I thought the show was merely average and that the finale fell a bit flat on its face for me. Then again, I watched She-Hulk all the way through before checking out what people were going to say about it online. I think fandoms have a terminally online problem right now. We don't just engage with the work. We engage with what people are saying about the work and usually side with whoever we already agree with. Then we view a creative work aggressively through that lens. It's the 'bitch eating crackers' effect.

[@CoconutmilkFilms]

Great insight into the situation the industry's currently in! The lack of writers' room feels especially sad to me, as it removes some of the upward mobility writers used to have. Ironically, we have also seen this in the games industry: it's hungry for experienced talent even while it keeps burning them out, and largely unwilling to train junior talent towards those senior roles.

[@S1leNtRIP]

One of the reasons Arcane felt like such a breath of fresh air. The writers clearly loved the medium and material, and were given years to work on it, revise it, and then execute a cohesive vision. Thanks for calling out a real problem in the industry, but not insulting or defaming these writers who’ve mostly been pushed into it by the studios.

[@raven-sf3di]

You stumbled on the real problem with the industry, take she hulk, people keep pointing out that the writer has no understanding of court room drama ,but it's clear that the writer/director has no love for comic books or superheroes. So rather than have a genre TV filled with people who are passionate about that field, the shows are given to just any random writer. Now compare house of dragons to rings of power,the one which did well was the one with the seasoned fantasy writer attached in Martin the other had unseasoned friends of JJ Abrams. how hard would it have been to hire Sanderson or another famous novelist for rings of power.

[@Bustermachine]

@@raven-sf3di How is she Hulk an example of that? The show leaned heavily on her 4th wall breaking antics from the comics? Like I didn't think the execution was great, but I didn't find it terrible either.

[@FULANODETAL]

@@Bustermachine its not terrible.its was a painful experiencevthatwill live in infamy...

[@rogoznicafc9672]

@@Bustermachine just because they told her "oh yea, do some 4th wall breaks like they did in comics for "the fans" but everything else is up to you" doesnt mean she loves the comics or whatever. Its clear as day the show is abysmal piece of work even for wine moms the show was created for

[@legtendgav556]

I swear we're in the middle of a quiet Writers Strike.

[@Darren_Mooney]

I don’t know if it’s that extreme. But, even outside of the cited article, I know a few writers who actively avoid these projects. (Maybe they’re the same writers, to be fair.)

[@dgafgiraffe5847]

I'd say we haven't fully recovered from the first one

[@17thshard62]

@@dgafgiraffe5847 Seconding this. They'll always try to go for the cheapest option. On top of this, you'll have BS like what they're doing to HBO, literally writing off projects permanently for tax writeoff purposes. If they don't have creative control, they'll end up with a subpar product meddled with by executives, or even worse, expected to turn a dumpster fire into something salvageable after the top brass thinks they can get away with winging it (like what happened to the most recent Star Wars trilogy).

[@LeonieLawliet]

it happened

[@codinghusky5196]

I believe this is all Deliberate. I've noticed one thing: I still go back to re-watch movies of the 80ies, 90ies, even 2000s. I regularly re-watch stargate, farscape, Black Adder... I can't remember a movie or a TV series released after 2010 I re-watched; except Mad Max Fury Road (but that movie is a different beast alltogther). I believe they're deliberately written to be a single-watch experience that doesn't compel or immerse the audience - it's just good enough to be seen once, but exactly bad enough to make you want to watch other stuff, new stuff, instead of re-watching it.

[@cameronjohnson4936]

This was tightly written and informative, great video! The attacks on many show runners from social media is crazy, it’s like people think the show runners don’t try their best with these huge media opportunities. The anger is always going to the wrong place

[@Darren_Mooney]

Thanks Cameron! Glad you enjoyed!

[@foosterOG]

Thank you for bringing up this critically important point. It seems like many of these modern franchises (Star Trek, Marvel Disney+ shows, Lord of the Rings, etc.) are so poorly written. There are so many qualified writers in Hollywood I was wondering why there was a lack of quality until you pointed out that there is a tremendous amount of content currently being produced, so there aren't enough writers to go around.

[@Darren_Mooney]

And those who are available might not be eager or able to work on the projects that studios have decided they want based on algorithmic data, let alone at the salaries and seniority offered to them.

[@li-limandragon9287]

@Fooster I have the opposite feelings on Loki to him, I think it’s one of the weaker written and more disappointing Marvel shows.

[@Ouroboros70]

I thought Star Trek: strange new worlds was surprisingly good. 1000x better than the steaming pile of crap Picard and Discovery were.

[@UnreasonableOpinions]

There's also MUCH more demand for proven writers, so they have never had more choices - why would they work for a show where they will be given a list of story instructions for exec producers (or Bezos) and no authority to vary from them, when they could work on a show that lets them have some space to move? If they can't pay in creative space they have to pay in extra money and they sure as hell haven't been doing that.

[@triomegazero]

Add in the fact that those writers have to shoulder more of the work and have fewer team mates to bounce ideas off of and get different perspectives from thanks to other shows taking them away and the creative spark sputters due to lack of input.

[@andymelhuish9740]

Darren, please don't ever talk to me while I'm on the toilet again. You know I'm a shy pooper.

[@Darren_Mooney]

I know you're kinda into it, Andy.

[@gallusgallusdomesticus281]

I'd say modern media in general has a writing issue.

[@li-limandragon9287]

To be fair people just have less time thanks to money people breathing down their necks and often a lack of experience.

[@gallusgallusdomesticus281]

@@li-limandragon9287 I understand that, however it's still an issue that negatively affects not just the media we produce but also the people who produce it.

[@haruhirogrimgar6047]

There has been endless examples of good and bad writing in every era of media. Modern media has plenty of unique masterpiece works that will stand the test of time like decades before. And also has a lot of trashy content. Just a decade & a half ago we had a writers strike in hollywood leading to the rise of crap like survival drama's and pawn star clones. All the while games were still in an awkward phase of violence being the only form of conflict allowed and investment into interesting dialogue or a story being seen as completely unecessary. There was even the popularization of the teen dystopian novel that happened around the same time. But there were still pieces of media that are hailed as masterpieces released. And the same can be said of 90's, 80's, and so on and so forth.

[@edwardwonghaupepelutivrusk5189]

So, if I want to be a writer, just show up? Because it sounds like they will hire any warm body.

[@Darren_Mooney]

To be fair, it probably helps to have a reference and to have studied film and/or writing. And, possibly, to have interned as a production assistant. (I can point to at least one major franchise showrunner who started there.)

[@legtendgav556]

A warm body that either: •Has favored physial atributes •Has connections (Ideally both)

[@imightbebiased9311]

@@legtendgav556 There's also option 3: "Will work for minimum wage, and allow someone else to take credit."

[@perianh]

@@legtendgav556 • Has an active Instagram/Twitter page with all the current hashtags.

[@SplashingMANGO]

Let’s not forget that we’re talking about multi-million (if not billion) dollar companies producing the crap mentioned. There’s no excuse why Disney of all companies was unable to hire a few lawyers to be consultants for She-Hulk. But another aspect of why writing has been so bad lately is precisely because of the type of writers that are bing hired. Not only are these inexperienced writers, they’re also inexperienced people. If a writer’s only hardship in life is having had someone cut in line in front of them at Starbucks, then of course they won’t be able to write compelling believable conflict or compelling characters. If we want to have compelling stories this whole trend of hiring the same sorts of creatives who all share the same ideas that fit within whatever the company’s criteria is has to stop! What does it matter if someone with a compelling idea has creative differences or doesn’t dit the brand? Marvel’s best show to date is is the gritty, brutal, and very unlike the rest of the MCU, Daredevil and that show was greatly loved. We need more shows that don’t fall within the restraints of studio marketing, and we’ll see good writing return.

[@RamsesThePigeon]

Speaking as a writer of some excessively minor repute, I can't find any fault with the insinuation that a lot of today's writing is bad both "by necessity" and on purpose. In the first case - the writing being bad "by necessity" - the issue arises not from a lack of experience on the part of writers (as was graciously suggested in the video), but from a dearth of creative control: While most good writers can imitate the "voices" of their peers, you're still going to have problems when someone who "sings" death metal is tasked with crooning. The end result might be story beats that don't flow into one another with the right emotional undercurrent, characters who suddenly behave or speak differently, or even gaping holes in the plot. In the case of writing being bad on purpose, well, if a show-runner tries to attract the largest-possible audience, they're going to end up creating generic, watered-down content... and the unfortunate fact of the matter is that casual viewers (of the sort that only have shows on in the background) are actually likely to be turned off by something to which they have to pay active attention. Mass appeal is certainly possible without compromising the integrity of a given narrative - "Better Call Saul" is a great example - but it nonetheless requires that the story itself be the top priority, not the desire to make said story as approachable as possible for the biggest swath of demographics. Frankly, I see it as another example of the Ennui Engine at work. (Google it!)

[@OhManTFE]

TIL

[@Deliveredmean42]

That begs to differ as to what's the point of making as broad as an appeal as possible if it just make people skip it anyway. There is a reason that niche or specific content still exist to fill some of the void.

[@IliyaMoroumetz]

The Ennui Engine, but by who? There's one by George Takei and one by Max Schleinger.

[@RamsesThePigeon]

@@IliyaMoroumetz George Takei is referencing Max Schlienger. The piece by Max is the one that you want.

[@BlueCubeSociety]

I'd never come up with the idea of watching a whole episode on my phone (yet alone on the toilet). I have a regular desktop PC, and I use it for everything if possible

[@Darren_Mooney]

Oh, I'm a television set person, although I will use my iPad while travelling for convenience.

[@Malganis85]

I would argue that there's an added benefit to the money-men: not only do these writers not cost as much money, but they're easier to bully into doing what the 'studio' wants. A big name auteur has clout and a vision that can be a threat to the studio if they want a mass-market appeal product.

[@LordRefa]

Not much to comment but to agree, out of all the series discussed Andor is really doing it for me. Showing more of the other side of the conflict. Karn storyline especially, I started by dismissing him more or less like most of the characters... But now I am emotionally somewhat rooting for him. The other shows are entertaining and I enjoy watching them, but Andor is what I am anticipating.

[@TheLyricalCleric]

Another banger-my wife and I can literally taste the difference between older shows with experienced writers and today’s hack “lead writer” groups. Rings of Power is a glaring example of no consistent authorial intent in production-intensely detailed and emotionally rich dwarves, and almost completely disconnected elves. Main characters with no motivation, while side characters beg for more screen time. Mystery box writing that substitutes internal character growth for external plot growth: always “what’s in the box?” rather than “what are the motivations of the people carrying the box?”

[@TheLyricalCleric]

@LTNetjak You’re absolutely right-macguffins, as Hitchcock explained, are things that the people on screen care intensely about but which the audience doesn’t care about at all. We are invested in the characters when they search for the NOC list or the launch codes or the suitcase bomb, not because of those things themselves. In fact, taking a page from Hitchcock’s discussion of the bomb in the car trunk in Touch of Evil would make the “Meteor Man” storyline of RoP infinitely more fun-rather than all of us waiting to see who he is, they should explain he’s a baddie at the beginning. Once we the audience know he’s a baddie, we feel tension for the Harfoots, and we wait for the moment it all resolves the way we know it will. Instead, we’ve got a character we don’t know going a place he doesn’t know with people he doesn’t know and the more we learn about him, the more “mysterious” he becomes. No, we don’t want mystery, we want drama.

[@pshnd]

You were wrong. I'm not sitting on the toilet while watching this. I'm laying in my bed, with two of my three cats laying on my chest, struggling to breathe and constantly moving one's tail off of my face so I can see the video. 😂

[@jacobquinn12]

Another great one Darren! This is fast becoming my favorite part of The Escapist.

[@Darren_Mooney]

Thanks! Glad you're enjoying it.

[@andrewfranges7807]

Biggest thing that bothers me is that they shoot them in wider aspect ratios. Those are great for theatre screens, and I guess phones, but it seems like wasted space on my TV.

[@stpirate89]

Really interesting look into the logistics of writing for television. The interaction and learning-on-the-job aspect is something I'd never thought of. Would love to learn more about the golden years of the Simpsons in this respect, as I know there are some greats writing there in the early seasons.

[@cmdrbratliff6226]

It feels as though they could easily recreate the pipeline model with streaming if they rested a bit more on the staggering catalogs all of these services have and slowed down production on newer shows. Put more effort (and probably comparable budgets) into fewer shows to produce at a higher quality. Probably won't happen with Disney or Warner who are IP driven machines that are currently subscribing to the philosophy of 'there is no such thing as bad reviews' where they just produce branded content because people will show up, but other studios/services without that brand power can definitely flex into a more sustainable model

[@Darren_Mooney]

Yep. It’s the speed and volume of production that is an issue here. People rightly talk about how it impacts VFX houses, but it also has impact on the other end of the sausage factory.

[@AndyDillbeck]

Rumor is that at least some of the Disney properties are written and shot like a choose your own adventure book, with a lot of takes for each scene. One where outcome A happens, one with B, another with C. Then the plot is decided after the fact and the episode is assembled in the editing room. That's not real writing, and you can't expect anything quality to come out of it. I kind of wonder if it might be a contributing factor in the "creative differences" issue that keeps coming up. A director with experience and vision might be less likely to put up with that someone who hasn't actually had a success yet.

[@ApexGale]

This is why writing shouldn't be shit on by so many people. Everyone always talks about how useful the STEM field, but what sticks with you longer? Your car having good handling, or a particularly good story?

[@Darren_Mooney]

As a critic, I'd also argue that teaching good critical reading skills is something that few education systems do well enough.

[@CarloNassar]

In terms of your last sentence, I'd say it's a tie. I also agree with your first sentence.

[@danielgrezda3339]

Show writing is one of the hardest jobs in the TV industry. Writing long form media is hard enough as it is, but add budget, VFX and actor constraints and fit director and executives different visions for the show and it's a nightmare, so of course beginners are going to make mistakes on their first few attempts. The problem comes when you only have beginners to write multi-million dollar shows with well known IP where any mistake will earn wrath from execs and the internet.

[@sambauman69]

"In the end the only guarantor of success is a quality product well made." -Yahtzee Croshaw, 2018

[@Alex-nl5cy]

I have trouble with dark shows and movies and that's on an OLED in the evening, I don't know how they expect anyone to watch this stuff with an old LCD in a living room being blasted by direct sunlight, with the added bonus of video compression on top.

[@cbpd89]

Yep! I used black out curtains and I am constantly changing the settings so I can actually see what is going on. My projector isn't super new or cutting edge, but they are the ones making the shows unwatchable. Let's stop blaming the viewer for that poor decision by the production.

[@YouFightLikeACow]

You deserve your own channel. Your breakdowns are always A+. Also totally agree. I have noticed many showrunners are people with so little credit it's very strange.

[@Darren_Mooney]

Thanks. The idea for this one kinda came from a conversation with Nick, and we had a gap between “Rings of Power” and “Andor”, so it slotted in quite nicely.

[@CM-ux9yh]

That was an exceptionally thoughtful and insightful video. It also paints a rather bleak picture of the future of series writing-and not unfairly so, sadly. There’s many crafts where fewer opportunities to learn from working with experienced colleagues translates into weaker skills; but unlike a lot of jobs, I would imagine TV Writing is rather difficult to self-teach without *extraordinarily*-forgiving (and patient) executives. You’re absolutely right, though, with asserting that consistent writing with a consistent authorial voice is creating the strongest streaming series. You’re also right in pointing out that these series are more akin to extended films rather than classical TV shows, which comes down to the hands on the helm, so to speak. I do fear that writing for TV in the classical sense is going to be a very rare skill going forward, not only because of the dearth of places to learn from experienced hands, but also because the big companies are more interested in the shorter, streaming-minded show style, and thus are inadvertently suffocating the older style of TV program by simply drying up its well. Styles and methodologies change over time, of course, and it’s to be expected that the “norm” of TV would change as the medium evolves and tastes are adjusted, but I share your anxiety about the quality of writing going forward, especially as the demand for content grows ever greater. Telling a good story, or a series of stories even, over a span of a multi-episode season is rather difficult, and it isn’t just something that can be replicated by film or novel writers off the cuff, it takes a special sort of storytelling skill to pace things out, incorporate side plots and the like. I worry if it’ll become a [mostly] lost art, relegated to low-budget, low-risk shows that are almost incidental to the content on a streaming service.

[@Darren_Mooney]

Yeah, the video was long enough already, but I think even when you get to the “streaming shows are long movies” thing, you brush up against the idea that showrunning is also a practical job to do with scheduling and budgeting that even a good writer isn’t immediately gifted at. (Which may be another reason there’s been a shift to treating directors as showrunners in this a context, but also ignores the fact that overseeing a film and television shoot are very different things.)

[@nemowindsor8724]

On the other hand, having multiple writers can mean that a bad writer can be balanced out with a good one. Chris Carter destroyed X-files eventually, but we had a good few years where great writers like Gilligan gave us classic episodes and made the series special.

[@CM-ux9yh]

@@nemowindsor8724 Very true. Yet another reason in favor of older, more collaborative writing.

[@Vesperitis]

I've noticed a growing problem of these miniseries (Castlevania, Wandavision, Moon Knight) being about 50% padding. Don't get me wrong, these are good shows, and they often have great openings and climactic action sequences, but the middle portions are often padded all to hell with meandering dialogue and running in place instead of cutting straight to the point. It's almost as if 1) the writers are writing for a single narrative that would fit better with a shorter movie format, 2) they're not writing disconnected episodic stuff like in the old TV series, 3) they need to make a minimum number of episodes as demanded by the studio despite not having enough plot to go around.

[@li-limandragon9287]

I think the padding works on WandaVision since its a sitcom/a show about sitcoms at its core, I’ve watched a lot of sitcoms and they are all about padding so seeing two very serious Marvel characters placed in that low stakes environment is great. The stuff I disliked in WandaVision was the SWORD stuff which felt the need to explain everything and take away from the main vibe of the series. Castlevania however while I like it overall, has way too many scenes of characters (a lot of whom are OCs) waxing philosophy in effort to seem deep which takes away from fun monster slaying fun of the show.

[@TheJadedJames]

It has been a while, but I don't see what you could logically cut from WandaVision other than trimming down the opening episodes prior to the audience seeing what's happening outside Westview.

[@perianh]

Obi-Wan is a good example of that. It would fare much better as a 2-hour movie, than a miniseries.

[@TheJadedJames]

@@perianh Kenobi is certainly a better example than WandaVision. I think Disney has decided that mini series are better for their metrics with certain properties (We are all talking about the big thing over the course of several weeks, instead of all at once over one weekend), which was why that relatively simple story needed 6 episodes. Also, feel like after Solo, Disney might be shy about releasing non-mainline Star Wars things as movies for a while, an TV shows better signal that this is not the next big important Star Wars thing you have to watch, but just more cool content

[@jasonhill8696]

If I remember right Castlevania was written as a movie and then stretched into a tv series

[@anedaneran5666]

Speaking of systemic problems: streaming does not pay _any_ royalties the way that tv syndication does. Tv writers whose work went on national daytime tv saw a good sum from that. Netflix (and later all the other streaming services) were able to get so much money because streaming has been a blindspot for Hollywood guilds and unions, and they couldn't fight for their members' royalties. This makes the contemporary tv writer's life more unstable financially, because they receive one-time payments and they have to look for the next gig afterwards (while living in one of the world's most expensive cities).

[@Darren_Mooney]

Yep, also true for actors as well. I know actors who are able to eat simply because they guested once on "Law & Order" ten years ago, but you don't get that if you appear in "The Sandman" or "She-Hulk" or any comparable examples.

[@steimeleyes]

I appreciate your candor in this video.

[@thecousinbellic]

Excellent video. You guys definitely seem to know what you're talking about. I learned a lot.

[@Darren_Mooney]

Thanks! Glad you enjoyed!

[@RobotShlomo]

Here's the thing that nobody has talked about in the age of "peak television", and I'm going to use an analogy here; In baseball when you have expansion, there is an inevitable watering down of the talent pool. EVERYTHING gets worse across the league. Pitching gets worse. Hitting gets worse. Fielding gets worse. What's happened now with the expansion of television and entertainment in general? The talent pool of writers has been watered down, and has gotten WORSE. This is why we get things like She-Hulk, Rings of Power, and other things that are simply horrible in terms of writing quality, and it's why you have people like JD Payne and Patrick McKay working as showrunners, who have no business even working in the industry,

[@goreobsessed2308]

Hell the TV in my room isn't even HD

[@legtendgav556]

baste

[@kscott2655]

I never even heard the term Showrunner until the lead up to Wheel of Time (which was a show so terribly written, we couldn't even finish it).

[@Darren_Mooney]

I remember it coming up in the mid-nineties, but I’m not 100% sure of that. (It was likely earlier, but I just became aware of it then.)

[@digitaljanus]

@@Darren_Mooney Google Ngram Viewer confirms it starts around the mid-90s but doesn't really take off until the early 00s. (I think it has a lot to do with internet forums and DVD special features making a lot of "inside baseball" industry jargon more known to the larger public.) I think it starts taking off around then in respect to high-profile syndicated and cable genre shows like TNG era Star Trek or extremely creator-driven fare like Babylon 5, The Sopranos, and The X-Files (technically a network show, but Fox was still the scrappy punk-rock underdog network compared to the Big 3 in the 90s).

[@louisduarte8763]

3:08 My hot take: THOR: The Dark World is not bad.

[@VishnuZutaten]

Great take on a very important issue. Will watch again and share many times!

[@gustavo-entrala]

Thank you for this amazing piece of work.

[@TheAdarkerglow]

Let me tell you: My brother has one of the highest end televisions with surround sound home theater. Even adjusting for the darkness, 'The Long Night' was virtually unwatchable for how poorly lit it was. They're just making an excuse for their terrible choices.

[@NeedsContent]

This supports my suspicions about the current state of the industry. TV has turned into a puppy-mill of writers and the industry actively shuns more experienced contributors. Like anything else, real quality takes time, and when shows have to be pushed out the door on a precise schedule the industry will start to favor yes-men who do as they're as told, so long as their half-baked content stays on-schedule.

[@error17_]

The good writing is an art

[@Darren_Mooney]

It is an art, but it's also a craft, in that it is something that can be honed and developed.

[@error17_]

@@Darren_Mooney true

[@Carewolf]

@@Darren_Mooney All true arts are crafts.

[@nogginscratcher]

Darren, how dare you, I'm not watching this on my phone in the bathroom, with my pants around my ankles. I'm watching it on my phone in the kitchen, with my pants around my ankles.

[@SirDawkinsthemad]

Loved the Andor pun

[@ThatMoonFleory]

And a VFX problem too apparently

[@Darren_Mooney]

Well, that is a whole other kettle of fish, with its own other systemic causes.

[@Oscar_Myk]

I think the biggest issue is serialisation, when series were episodic a single bad one didn't affect anything. Now with season long arcs a bad storyline could be spread over ten or more episodes (assuming the main arc is itself not the problem - ST: Discovery has that issue), and if it's a franchise property writers love having their own made-up content that they prioritise over the established canon (Kwan in Halo, for example). I like what Andor has done in having three episode arcs, it makes for better pacing than having to wait for a finale that might not stick the landing. It could be shit for here on out and we'd still have had two 'films' better than anything in the prequel or sequel trilogies.

[@TheMadmanNorby]

How did he know I’m watching this on the toilet?! 0_o

[@Darren_Mooney]

I know *everything.*

[@PauLtus_B]

It's painful. It's like studios just don't artist to make the art. They want a someone who creates a semi-coherent script that hits the beats the studios desire. All parts that aren't on screen are just treated as replacable employees who are just fired the moment they actually want to make something other than what was demanded.

[@Darren_Mooney]

Yep. If you treat artists as interchangeable and anonymous cogs, can you be surprised when you get anonymous art?

[@PauLtus_B]

@@Darren_Mooney anonymous art?

[@Carlos-ln8fd]

But seriously good essay bro

[@Darren_Mooney]

Cool! Glad you enjoyed it!

[@nemowindsor8724]

Yeah, watching Loki in the Thor films with good writers versus watching him in LOKI with terrible writing was heartbreaking…it showed how a good actor can only do so much when the vision and execution is horribly flawed. Hold on…no, I have to disagree with you, the head writer for LOKI is not good at story structure, and wrote an awful hero’s journey for the lead and co-lead, derailing even that with a disastrous and vomit-inducing romance that blew up the whole thing and made Loki a passive cheerleader to someone else’s best girl.

[@li-limandragon9287]

Yeah I definitely wasn’t a fan of Loki, it had all of time to explore and different realities and all we got was dull people wacking each other with sticks in office rooms. I’d even take the skimpy “I was created by a horny Stan Lee and Jack Kirby” Enchantress over Sylvie because sadly she’s a more interesting character and ironically less problematic than having Loki incestually make out with his female self. I had problems with Love and Thunder but it certainly wasn’t dull, your piece of media can be anything but “dull” is what you avoid at all cost. Sam Raimi stated that himself.

[@BrennySpain]

House of the dragon suffered this same problem with the “dark episode” very recently. Not to the same extent as in game of thrones season 7 but I thought there was something with my computer…

[@bartonfarnsworth7690]

Ha! Joke's on you! I wasn't on the toilet, I was in the kitchen making lunch!

[@MrChupacabra555]

No, I'm watching on my Desktop....and now I suddenly have to do a Number 1, so Thank You so Goddamn much!.........😅

[@Grizabeebles]

675 scripted shows. Say an average of 12 episodes. And assume each lasts 40 minutes. *That's 6,075 hours of TV. That's 3 YEARS of content.*

[@Darren_Mooney]

Yep. It's insane.

[@Grizabeebles]

@@Darren_Mooney -- Not that crazy. Books and print media have been in this state for centuries now. And its not like you or I seriously lament that almost nobody has read the original 1818 version of _Frankenstien._ The part that's crazy is getting reminded that making these shows can take _years_ and we burn through them in a matter of days, and we still can't keep up.

[@theamazingbatboy]

Excellent essay! Articulates my thoughts about the decline of holistic, well-crafted stories and character growth since the golden age of the naughties. So great in fact I'm watching this again with adblock disabled and recommending. Thank you.

[@Darren_Mooney]

Thanks! Much appreciated!

[@theamazingbatboy]

My pleasure. YT could use more intelligent, well researched analysis like this.

[@gibs7320]

fantastic video!!

[@Darren_Mooney]

Thanks! Glad you enjoyed.

[@BooRadley742]

The sopranos is my favorite show (outside of seasons 3-12 of the simpsons). I rewatch it every few year. I'd love to hear your thoughts on the many saints. Did you write those down anywhere? Haha

[@arnthorsnaer]

Great video

[@Darren_Mooney]

Thanks! Glad you enjoyed! Really happy with how this turned out.

[@Keirmot]

That Andor joke made me Like this video, just saying.

[@Darren_Mooney]

Come for the insight, stay for the pun!

[@perianh]

Yes! Thank you for saying that! Too often lately it seems like writing positions are given off to people whose ceiling is writing fanfics on tumblr. I don't know if it's nepotism or incompetence, but when reddit can write a better script than a team of hollywood professionals, you know something went wrong.

[@PirateJacques79]

0:45 You missed Mike Leigh

[@Darren_Mooney]

Damn it, we did!

[@TheCreepypro]

nice to see this being addressed

[@sketchesofpayne]

I've given up and just watch KZbin these days. There's already more stuff in my subscription feed each day than I can physically watch. So I don't really need a bunch of mediocre streaming series on top of that.

[@mosesmoorhouse]

Sorry but that woman tapping air over her phone on the toilet gives me serious Garda pretending to type on RTE News vibes

[@Darren_Mooney]

Nice, deep cut!

[@PrincipiaDeCinema]

The Fabelman's is NOT Spielberg's first screenplay since Close Encounters of the Third Kind. He wrote the script for AI: Artificial Intelligence as well.

[@Darren_Mooney]

To be fair, “A.I.” originated as a Kubrick project. Didn’t have time to delve into that, for the same reason we didn’t get into “Amazing Stories” or the whole quagmire over “Poltergeist.”

[@PrincipiaDeCinema]

Yes, that is why I didn't mention them because I assumed he meant screenplay for feature film that Spielberg directed. I don't think you're being "fair," but parsing words to cover a mistake for no reason whatsoever. Spielberg wrote the screenplay for AI and directed the film. Under no definition is the Fabelman's his first screenplay since Close Encounters. (If he had said first original screenplay it would make sense, but not really for the point he was making about authorship.) In fact, with Close Encounters, Speilberg originally developed the project with Paul Schrader, but decided Schrader was wrong for what he wanted the movie to be and took over as writer himself. It is very rare to find a screenplay that was not polished by another writer, came from some other source, was rewritten by the director uncredited, etc. etc. etc. Film is a collaborated art. Spielberg has the screenplay credit for three films he directed, That is "fair" when talking about him writing the screenplay, not excluding one arbitrarily because you think the guy who makes the Escapist videos is infallible. It would be more "fair" to actually give Spielberg credit for uncredited writing he did on the ET script and other screenplays he worked closely with other screenwriters to develop.

[@Darren_Mooney]

@@PrincipiaDeCinema “I don’t think you’re being ‘fair’, but parsing words to cover a mistake for no reason whatsoever.” … now who’s being unfair here?

[@PrincipiaDeCinema]

@@Darren_Mooney You, I made that pretty clear.

[@Darren_Mooney]

@@PrincipiaDeCinema I’m not the one acting in bad faith here, accusing you of “parsing words” to “cover a mistake”, as opposed to accepting the clarification in the spirit it was offered.

[@shawnking3680]

you're right. totally on the toilet

[@marshallzzz]

Interesting video!

[@Darren_Mooney]

Thanks! Glad you enjoyed!

[@Gaia_BentosZX5]

The real irony of it all is that Japan's entertainment industry in Kyoto is VERY WELL adapted to it having gone through similar situations before, where Hollywood is struggling to keep up despite it apparently being the nerve center of all things multimedia.

[@Gaia_BentosZX5]

This also explains the Netflix and HBO nukes. Which inevitably was going to happen due to mass layoffs and reckless spending just to avoid paying taxes years prior. Scripts I always believed should be reserved for actors, and the animation industry is consequently putting too many eggs in one basket, forcing the storyboarders to do all the work and why there's a substantial quality drop in the past five years.

[@HUNbullseye]

So you're saying i can just move to Hollywood and became a writer for some prestige tv series, no real experience needed? Let's-a go!

[@ThatFanBoyGuy]

Wrong, Darren Mooney! I'm at the work office desk, watching this while pretending to work (that's the 2nd guess to on the toilet 😉)

[@Darren_Mooney]

(Walter White pose) "Ya got me."

[@robbielex]

4:45 she seems to be sitting on a fully closed toilet with the lid down and she has shorts on. If she actually goes potty it's gonna be quite a mess! Is she just hiding???

[@armelior4610]

What about cinema then ? Because I don't think there are many more blockbusters each year than there were in the 90's but things like Independance day look like Citizen Kane story-wise compared to most big movies now (and I don''t particularly like this movie and it's pretty dumb but at least it made sense)... I don't think the number of writers is the main problem. I'd say it's more that the script is less important (if at all) when you have spectacle, exactly like blockbusters on the big screen. And as you said the producers having a deathly fear that the scripts would try to say anything that might alienate anyone and hurt their "brand". Another problem is that the quality is irrelevant when the point of producing a new series for streaming is just to have stuff on your shelf so that the customer doesn't stop his suscription : if he tries a series and he is dissapointed he can still try the 3 or 4 new ones that appeared while he tried that one... Well unless it's so terrible that he unsuscribes out of spite ^^ (end of GoT anyone ?)

[@yavorvlaskov5404]

There's a notification alright, I can confirm that much, but it is possible that people don't really look at those as much on youtube as they would on FB. P.S. Joke is on you, because I was watching/listening to this while doing something else around the house, just I like I do with all shows nowadays. Need a good background for my switch/hearthstone playing. This video breaking down the issues of my backgrounds was good. Also, controversial opinion, but so far She-Hulk is the most polished Marvel Show and I honestly am enjoying it the most. Sure, it didn't have as interesting plot as WandaVision did (at the start, at least) nor as impressive acting as Moon Knight, but sure as hell has a more consistent plot and pacing than the rest of them. Jessica Gao is apparently doing a good job hiding the shortcomings of her actors instead of proudly putting them forward like Rafe Judkins did in WoT.

[@hamishmacdonald8593]

I would encourage anyone to watch Severance. Apologies if this makes you pay for Apple TV.

[@Darren_Mooney]

Apple TV+ quietly rules. It's a weird little service, but every show on there is on there because *somebody* actually cares for it and fought for it. I find its average quality level - give or take a "Morning Show" - to be just behind that of HBO.

[@nifftbatuff676]

Why does this apply only to the writing?

[@Darren_Mooney]

The video explains specifically why writing is important in the medium of television. Of course, you can make other arguments about other fields - most obviously at the moment, visual effects. But the fish rots from the head. If the writers putting these shows together don't have the necessary experience, it trickles downwards into the whole project. (Also, writing takes more time than television acting and directing, because television productions generally have tighter schedules than films, and so the writers handle a lot of pre- and post-production work. So while directors and actors can work on multiple shows in a given year, writers don't have the same amount of freedom once they commit to a project like this.)

[@MotiviqueStudio]

Writers all need to get in to a room and commit to each other never to use the phrase, "I get it..." in dialogue ever again. MY GOD the laziness. Yeah. You laugh. But once you start hearing it, you'll remember this seemingly inane little comment.

[@february4206]

inb4 2007-2008 Writer's Strike...2!

[@Darren_Mooney]

Strike II!

[@february4206]

@@Darren_Mooney GUESS WHAT

[@kiernanfisher4842]

I wish i could like multiple times!

[@Darren_Mooney]

Thanks! Glad you enjoyed.

[@Crause88fin]

Verbalizing what I've been lameting for years now. Thank you. Now instead of going on rants, I can just link this video.

[@Darren_Mooney]

Thanks Peetu! We try not to get too emotional in terms of rants here.

[@joshuagraham967]

Loved this video, please make more 🙏

[@Darren_Mooney]

Thanks Joshua. This is actually a fortnightly series, so you can check out past episodes on the feed, if you're curious.

[@brennanwn]

THIS IS GONNA BE AWESOME DISCUSSION

[@Darren_Mooney]

I hope so. I also hope it's fair and reasonable.

[@VICTORZITOSS]

Something something algorithm something something watch the video this video good

[@Darren_Mooney]

Thanks, glad you enjoed this!

[@VICTORZITOSS]

@@Darren_Mooney haven't watched it still haha Just preemptively leaving the message to help with the notoriety because I trust the brand haha If it's a bad video and doesn't have enough puns I can always delete the comment and nothing would have happened For the people who already read it I'd just make a deal with mephisto or something

[@BlazingOwnager]

Aww man that GvsE reference. I loved that show, until Sci-Fi renamed it Good vs Evil and took it seriously, ruining it. The first season was some great TV that deserved more recognition.

[@Daemonworks]

and today i learned that geezer means something else in the UK. huh.

[@Darren_Mooney]

Yep, and I learned that it means something different in the United States!

[@b1g_m00n]

bryan fuller also had to drop out of American gods and believe it or not that wasn't the worst thing that happened on that show's backstage

[@mrZanZibar777]

In US slang, geezer just means old guy. I've never been a fan of fiction television, mostly preferring shows that don't have an overarching story like The Simpsons, Batman the Animated Series, etc, rare exceptions like Twin Peaks aside. I'd prefer to read a book series if I want serialized entertainment. I think a lot of it has to do with the format: movies are often leaner because they have to trim the story into ~2 hours, while TV series are often bloated because they need to stretch a story into 8-22 episodes while saving some for next season. Very few shows have a story that justifies the time investment for me. In fact very few of the best shows can do more with 10 hours than the best movies can with 2. IMO. I think modern television isn't worse necessarily, it's just that there's more of an already substandard thing. But that's just my personal view which I understand is not commonly held.

[@dorpth]

Studios have long lost the ability to portray convincing workplaces. You used to have disaster movies like The China Syndrome or The Andromeda Effect with believable professionals, or the famous Close Encounters of the Third Kind air traffic controller scene. John Grisham knew how legal proceedings worked. Sometime around the mid 90s, Michael Bay and Roland Emmerich took over and every "professional" was now a wacky character or douchebag rockstar. For the last 20 years, this has morphed into what I call "Joss Whedon disease" where every character talks in the exact same pop culture quippy voice. None of them have the slightest clue how to write any professions they portray.

[@d3nza482]

This is a bit... forest for the trees analysis. Oh sure, trees are there. Lack of competent writers and overproduction. But those are just symptoms. The disease is the tech bubble we've been sitting on for a while now. As the blockbusters started raking in GDPs of smaller countries and the price of "filming" and processing bottomed out it became obvious to tech companies that "the content" is the biggest game in town. Oh, and it's recession-proof. And it keeps paying out dividends practically forever. Thus all these lovely streaming services with endless piles of cash - in need of something, anything, AS LONG AS IT'S FLASHY AND NEW ENOUGH to draw in the crowds and keep them interested just long enough for the majority to forget to unsubscribe. Thus overproduction, bad writing and, most importantly, hectic schedules - cause gotta put SOMETHING up. Or the suckers might wise up to the fact that they are only sinking more cash into their sunk cost fallacy. The best part is that the whole pile of shit is infinitely sustainable. What? Do you expect the audience to suddenly evolve taste and critical thinking skills, give up on frivolous instant gratification and go out there in pursuit of "cooler media"? Have you seen TikTok? Cause THAT is what Jeffrey Katzenberg was aiming for with Quibi. Only he failed to grasp how LOW the bar actually needs to be set in order for the audience to keep pushing the dopamine button. And don't you worry - we WILL get there. If you want a picture of the future, imagine Khaby Lame's face silently judging you - for ever.

[@lumeronswift]

Wait - why is the only good thing Disney has released for the Star Wars franchise part of the thumbnail?

[@JeannieLove]

This is how you do constructive criticism. But I'm still enjoying She-Hulk.

[@Darren_Mooney]

I’m glad you are! I actually really enjoyed the fourth episode a great deal.

[@alexandredesbiens-brassard9109]

She-Hulk is great lightweight fun. Why so many insecure crybabies are triggered by it I'll never understand.

[@robbielex]

Madisynn Gang4Lyfe!

[@mattpierce5009]

@@alexandredesbiens-brassard9109 You're sounding pretty triggered by diverse opinions imo

[@haruhirogrimgar6047]

@@mattpierce5009 If by "diverse opinions" you mean the endless onslaught of KZbin videos decrying it as "woke" and saying it is bad on that fact alone? It gets draining to deal with dipsh'ts.

[@tristemp01]

So sad trying to convince people the poor don't exist when we are trying to state that the middle class is gone their assumption goes far beyond just what TV set we have in our homes, remember the infamous line "do you not have phones" when talking about gaming it is all connected and relevant to who we vote to power

[@leonerdlikestoreference3162]

I always thought a geezer was an old man

[@Darren_Mooney]

I believe it is in the States. It means something different over this side of the Atlantic.

[@whodatboi2567]

As a fan of the MCU I agree with everything you said. I think that it succeeds best when they give experienced writers and directors a lot of creative freedom within the Marvel formula.

[@wdcain1]

I hate Bezos' method of story telling. I am so sick of _"characters dramatically stare and feel things while music happens"_ as it's a time waster to fill allotted episodes.

[@DrMcFly28]

4:46 I'm irrationally annoyed with shots like this. Why is this person sitting on their toilet with their shorts up? Are they so engrossed in their mobile phone they aren't realizing they're shitting their pants?

[@bocioguie007]

Old person here watching KZbin on his desktop, no toilets here

[@BrennySpain]

The fact that marvel’s upcoming series armour wars is going from a tv series to a full length movie kind of has me worried something went wrong in the writing room. Just saying…

[@li-limandragon9287]

Someone decided “too many TV shows”

[@BrennySpain]

@@li-limandragon9287 yep lol

[@thepowerofweed]

I was on toilet when i started this but not when you said that