The Struggle of a Modern player| Street fighter 6 Talk

This video was a request to make to get some points across, hope you like it
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[@DePeza]

I need to learn audio balance P.S I have a Discord: discord.gg/PRZ86QnNAk

[@gremlindo]

I kind of feel bad for the devs. They put all this time and effort into balancing a new way to play their game to rake in a new pool of people who wanted to play Fighting Games but couldn't/wouldn't because of the six button layout, just for a significant vocal part of the community to go out of it's way to alienate them.

[@theWIIISEguy]

I can only speak for people I've seen and know. No one is alienating the Modern players, just not approving of their skillset. Which is something that was always bound to happen and will likely continue. Even with time and more ppl coming to understand Modern controls.

[@bigwavesun]

The modern controls for new players reason is hogwash. Other fighting games like DBFZ, Injustice 2, and Naruto games already used it. Capcom probably implemented these as an afterthought, hence the nerfing of damage on specials and supers. IMO, the game wasn't really built for these controls in mind and it shows with the imbalances when fighting against Classic controls.

[@BasiliskEye84]

@@bigwavesun Here is the irony, at one point in development they were toying with just calling the game "Street Fighter" making it a soft reboot and Modern controls were the ONLY control option. They put the classic controls back in is because they knew the tantrum shitstorm on the internet it would have caused if vets couldn't import legacy skill. So yeah, they game actually was built with these controls in mind, then had to go back and nerf them so EZ input wouldn't completely dominate.

[@bigwavesun]

​@@BasiliskEye84either way, It's impossible to balance where anyone is happy

[@yungchamp21]

I think the issue is people don’t want to change their play style. People don’t adapt to playing against modern like they do an actual matchup.

[@theWIIISEguy]

I disagree. People don't like losing to and playing against Modern control schemes because they don't like the idea of people skipping passed the execution barrier and reactionary clauses that comes with having to do full motions. It feels like you're going against someone who's able to do things that for us would take a long time to do consistently and even then it's a much more nuanced conversation. Mental stack, fear of dropping with their execution, reaction speed being notably different and reactionary aspects of the game being much consistently successful for them.

[@ChaosKnuxxx]

I think you hit it on the head. Most of the time when people complain, not even about modern, just a character, it's because they gotta play different than they're used to. It's the fact that they gotta switch up their play style and they're lost/confused. Modern you definitely have to play a little bit differently

[@megakazuya123]

There is nothing to "adapt" to, MCs do not alter your moves, they provide you a (significant) DPS buff because you can throw out higher damage, quicker because it is mapped to a button versus a sequence of buttons. This is especially frustrating with S-Tier characters. Also, and this is to the FGC: *Please stop telling people to "adapt".....* That's not what "adapt" means, that's not how it works and you sound stupid when you say this. Your opponent has a Machine Gun (MC), you have a pistol (CC) and some dumbass on the sidelines is telling you to "just adapt" to the hail of bullets like this is anime. MCs give people an unfair advantage, there's nothing to "adapt" to.

[@theWIIISEguy]

@megakazuya123 It does give them advantages, but their are specific ways to adapt to a Modern version of any character. It depends on what's being used and how.

[@misterkeebler]

Just wanted to compliment your thumbnail work since it gave me a laugh and was the sole reason i clicked on the video. Good stuff.

[@sheldome]

Thank you for bringing up the ps5 controller issue. Compared to ps4 controllers its trash especially for SF6. Its the reason why i switched to modern. I can play both because some characters are better in modern than in classsic and viceversa. But i prefer modern. Its like playing with a new character.

[@brandonreyes6702]

dont listen to classic players ( i play classic) if they make an excuse they lost cause of modern controls, THEY ARE SCRUBS, me included, lol

[@yocyber5711]

the more i play modern, the more I see how predictable and random people online really are. If all I use is 2 buttons and one combo to beat some of them easily, then maybe the control scheme isn't the problem, it's the gameplan and simplifying your routes a bit more.

[@frostyazi1366]

ngl the fighting game community starting to be full of bums who got that ltg mindset of im better if you win your bad there is a difference between being toxic confident and just being garbage confident if your gonna have that even though i lost your bad mental atleast win one match dog atleast 1 so we know you got some bite and your not all bark

[@lemmylemz7394]

i am using modern since yesterday and i will not stop. Tired of getting beaten by fighting pad users with all theirs shortcuts

[@jurisdojo23]

It’s just the fact that you don’t have to worry about jump ins or drive impacts because of one button controls, playing on classic it’s so much put on your brain to react to. But if lil bro is silver he has no room to talk

[@megakazuya123]

This video is tremendously disingenuous: First off, while I don't think people should be "shamed" for using Modern Controls (MC), it should be acknowledged that *MCs were added to the game to artificially boost the offensive capabilities of low-skilled players.* MCs were incorporated (along with all the other woke bullshit in this game) as a form of "equity" in a skill-based game. For those unfamiliar with the term "equity", it means "equal outcome regardless of effort". The devs -- who already admitted that they consulted with activists during the development period of this game -- added this feature in to allow casual or low-skilled players to easily match/beat skilled players and with less effort. *This is the source of the controversy* and it is legitimate. It is entirely legitimate to be upset that you lost in a skill-based game to someone who is using Capcom-endorsed macros. __ Second, the claim that MC only provides a miniscule advantage is a proven lie. MCs, especially in the hands of an actually "skilled" player, provide a *SIGNIFICANT* advantage. Using MC requires less inputs, provides quicker responses and ultimately much quicker DPS. There are videos and articles on this but YT will delete comments with links in them (as spam). It is out there though and you can easily find it. Now, I will admit that the level of DPS one does is dependent on a variety of factors (character, skill level, connection, etc) but MCs can 100% net you higher DPS in many circumstances. Keep in mind that this same controversy exists in other games. For example, in Smash Ultimate, 60% of the online community uses modded controllers that specifically allow for this. It is more tolorated in smash because there are no rules in that community. __ There are other issues with this video but the overall point is as follows: You are free to play the game as you like, and I sure Capcom thought that -this was a great way to capitalize on casuals- this was a good way to help new players. While I don't think people should be ridiculed for using MCs, I 100% think that it should be acknowledged (to some degree) that said individual is playing with an advantage.

[@depictiongames9758]

I would be completely fine with modern controls if they had slight input delay instead of frame one inputs

[@JTalbayne]

Ain't nothing wrong with Modern. Your trading damage and flexibility with easier execution which give you more consistency which is WAAYYY more important. I personally prefer classic because that's just what I'm used to.

[@bunshapiro9091]

Idk modern overall is a stupid idea. Never would i acknowledge a loss to a modern player. Penalty or not, one direction plus a button for specials is cheap and takes no skill. How many matches have you seen where a player would have won if they didnt drop that one input. Its apart of the game and modern takes that aspect of fighting games out. But hey this is the course for tye future unfortunately.

[@ImSoConfucius]

I work in landscaping, my new job is more chill compared to my last but the effects of it are still on my hands. I tried playing on Wednesday on Classic as usual but my hand would physically not do the motion inputs even for a small combo cancelled into a quarter circle motion. I am glad capcom made modern for those that are new players like myself and for people that are physically unable to do more complicated motion inputs because of a hand problem they might have. :)

[@PipeRetrogamer]

I have played some M players in my region and so far my win/loss ratio is pretty much even. I wish for a minute we could just stop gatekeeping ppl who wants to enjoy the game. Also, M opens the door to make it easier for players to use more characters, which on classic controls requires a ton of work.

[@Keeacer]

Modern controls are amazing

[@OkairMcLaren]

The combos can do the same damage with both control types. A decent modern player would use the og input for the ex move and then they scale to the same percentages.

[@dankusmemeus7093]

Bruh if you can’t beat modern you have a serious skill issue 😂

[@that80ssongyoulove84]

Go play SolVNG2 or Shuto and comeback. You will get your shit kicked in.

[@brothakwam]

Who cares, play and have fun

[@imbeingspiedon5588]

It's kinda impossible when a person believes they're something they're not (in this case, good at sf6) imagine training hard and being the best in your lil circle of friends....then in comes new challenger....hasn't been playing half as long as you....whips you.. You cant feel like you've accomplished something ( although in reality nothing was accomplished cause you lost to someone who doesn't care half as much as you do)..fun gone because they can't feel like they're good.

[@TK-ev]

@@imbeingspiedon5588 that means either a) you weren't as good as you thought you were. This situation can happen regardless of game if someone is a natural. B) you will to adjust to new data, and very shortly will average out to being the best again.

[@brothakwam]

Just say u dislike people who use modern controls. Statistically, there are more classic control users in high rank than they are modern. Maybe this game is not for you. Btw I use modern. And I don't give a F_ck. User....BrothaKwam444

[@DemiGodX]

If a poker player continuously play the right way, the correct way, they consider that play style “tight” and other players will take advantage of that because they play it safe and that is so predictable. Sometimes u gotta go wild and take a gamble. That is what they call “loose”. Can’t play “tight” all the time they gonna read u

[@Venom_V1]

7:47 I got to say that’s not a good argument imo, like the damage scaling doesn’t matter when the execution of the move is 100% easier. especially with characters like zangief with his one button spd and don’t get me started on his 720 like I feel modern controls definitely gives you small boosts like obviously you need some skill to perform at high level, but their definitely examples of people being carried by modern controls

[@DePeza]

Fair enough on that statement, to be fair that talk was way back last month before I have to get full more understanding research on my own. as I did in 2:45 and talk about it. But yea that's the only good part side of modern is that it's just s Flick golf a button and trust me I had my fair sir of knowing 3 friends on Modern controls lol

[@ToveriJuri]

"some" skill lol. You have no idea what you are talking about. If you think Fighting games are mostly just combos and execution you are forever lost in the scrub land. Modern controls don't teach you game sense, footsies, mind games, spacing, matchups, frame data, game plan, They don't teach you how to apply pressure how to keep pressuring in the corner they don't teach you mix ups and how to apply them effectively. Modern controls are not a problem at your level because you aren't losing to modern players because it's easier for him to do special. There is so much you can learn to completely wash any modern control player at your level without even doing a single combo. People shouldn't be discouraged from using modern controls because some sore losers think it's easy mode. It's not why they are losing and they will remain losers until they understand that modern controls the opponent user uses is not what's keeping them from winning.

[@MetahFenix]

I've only heard of two really good modern players. If it was so good and you needed some skill to perform at a high level, why aren't more people in masters using them? You're only running into modern players lower in the ladder and that is okay. Being salty because someone can hit a consistent spd doesn't change the fact that you got read and hit consistently by an spd. This mind set is what holds people back from getting better tbh.

[@cloudyworldview6973]

​@@ToveriJuri it is easy mode. I don't care what people use lol but people always seem to always act like it isn't the case when the developer even state that's their intentions. If it wasn't so there wouldn't be any sperate control scheme as well as making fighting games easier. Combos are an aspect of fundamentals. It's doesn't really matter if u can win with or without em everyone loses/wins . It's just a game at the end of the day Who cares who's ass n not everyone gonna improve either way

[@ToveriJuri]

@@cloudyworldview6973 It makes controls easier for you to do. It doesn't make it easier for you to beat another player that knows more about the game than you and is better at it. That is what people don't seem to get when they berate others for using them. I don't use them I've been used to using motion controls for way over a decade, but I know enough to understand that modern controls alone are not what are winning or losing the games for people. And once these whiners who hate modern controls get better they'll see it themselves. Or they'll never get better and quit. All the same to me.

[@BasiliskEye84]

The choice between Classic and Modern remind me of CVS2 Grooves. they both have advantages and disadvantages.

[@powerful8376]

I play modern because I’m now to SF franchise and I’m still bad at the half circle motion and fighting games

[@stevecelestin6716]

Soooo If he’s really better than the classix guy…… why not use classic control 😒😒😒

[@coalminecanary1277]

Don't let it get to you - they're trying to protect their ego and image - glad yall got it off your chest we'll play anytime

[@imbeingspiedon5588]

Modern players beating classic players is like a grown man losing a fight to a teenager that has one hand behind his back.. lol How do you have full control over your character and no damage nerf but can't win?

[@Digikid17]

Pretty bad analogy, since the teenager doesn't have to time their combo at all. 1 arm behind your back would be like no ability to do supers or something. You don't even need to pick between punches or kicks. Also Modern control players can get their moves out faster, 1 frame specials and supers. VS Classic controls you can see when someone is trying to buffer a super or special in neutral. Modern just needs reactions.

[@markyhunter8301]

Not me. I can kick their ass pretty handily

[@imbeingspiedon5588]

Nah it's on point. Me new to sf but not fgs are a teenager compared to ppl like you with knowledge of the game. Knowledge of the game and experience come with time which is represented by age...I'm younger in sf years than some who's played sf5....my are is tied, like what a debuff does.....you don't have to agree but don't add your salt to my recipe please...

[@Digikid17]

Nah it's off point, and you being new shows how little you realize what modern + auto does. There is no "opinion" to have here, auto removes timing from combos, and specials/supers come out faster. Those are facts, and being ignorant to those means your recipe is shit to begin with

[@unrighteous8745]

This is a joke right? There are top level Japanese players using Modern controls and I wouldn't be embarrassed at all if I got absolutely destroyed by one of them. Haitani just went on a 75 win streak with Modern Chun against master level Japanese players in ranked.

[@LocustaVampa]

Can't play online. Maybe just remove that unnecessary bullshit with the code and linking accounts. Thanks

[@tehonlynoobs5556]

y know what im really watch lot of fighting game video even though im never play or newbs at fighting game and with sf6 im really interested to play this game since they introduce modern control which i dont need to spent more my time to learn but with community hate thing like this make me think twice to play this

[@DePeza]

Never go with what people think about stuff like this, this is just FGC at it's finest, for the most part it's just people being salty about it small things. I would say give it a shot and if you're not comfortable of online you can play the offline world tour and learn along the way. If you're comfortable playing modern then go and pick modern and enjoy yourself, don't listen to people and just go at your own pace If you do play online in the Battle Hub there are beginner lobbys with people who hasn't play rank match. Give it a shot my guy

[@mauriciomalo1153]

I play classic, it wasn't classic before, it was just SF. I don't want to play vs Modern controls insta supers insta specials. I wish there was an option to auto filter matches by control type, problem solved!

[@unciervoenciervado]

Modern controls make way more sense for pad. Im glad capcom stopped pretending arcade stick is the default controller of of the playerbase lol let classic players cry I dont care

[@itsmayoyo]

I think that the only people who are complaining about Modern are in Low ranks because as he has stated it doesn't matter if you learn combos all day when you can't even land it in the first place.

[@El_pedro81]

Why didn’t the dv‘s made seperate classes for mc players and classic players???!!!

[@DePeza]

There's not really a necessary reason for it to go on about it. Modern controls is ment for new casual audience as it's targeted to. But tbh I don't think it needs to a divided thing in the first place. But if you're really a casual about it, they wouldn't be playing rank at all because they're beginner lobbys to separate players that have done rank match

[@TK-ev]

They do not want to lay the groundwork for players to start banning modern controls in tournaments. The loss of normals and significant damage is price enough.

[@redotron3000]

Never play for the validation of others cause you could legit do daigo parries and they would simply move the goal post. Subconsciously mind you

[@futaenokiwami2592]

Modern is cool for fuzziness and content creators, but when you start playing for money (ceo, evo...) especially if you are a pro player, modern is not cool, that's just my opinion

[@stormitive3076]

Lol awesome video bro. I take gaming seriously and mainly play fighting games. This was really interesting. Thank you.

[@theWIIISEguy]

Okay. As one of the guys who dont like playing against Moderm controls AND understand the controller scheme and its limitations as well as balances and can play on it to boot. I wanna say this video doesnt paint the full picture and makes it seem as if Classic scheme players are ignorant of the Modern control scheme (some are) and falsely under the impression that theyre better just because the play on Classic. (Some of them are.) I would like to eventually do a video myself. But for now im going to layout my thoughts here. A player who thinks their control scheme choice makes them better? Will typically be a scrub. Someone who isnt really all that good and just posturing and posing. Like the guy and his group of freinds being mentioned in the video. Those a posers and scrubs. Period. If a Classic player doesnt understand the Modern control scheme, their arguments shouldnt even be taken seriously as its so easy to undersrand that any ignorance of how it works just confirms how much of a scrub they are and how biased they are with little to no reason. Now.. The elephant in the room thats not being adressed is the fundamental design of these games. Classic motion inputs are designed with balance in mind. Yes its also a reward to master said inputs, but theyre usually designed in a way to intuitively get the play to commit to an action that opens them up very briefly for a big payoff. Or makes the use of the move more dufficult to access given the situation, time it takes to input or the inputs/hand position that are made before attempting it. When on Modern controls. Yes, you get less damage. Yes, your normal kit is limited as well as your special strengths.. However thats a trade off for being able to skip huge chunks of the execution barrier and learning curve as well as having the upper hand when it comes to reactionary gameplay...CONSISTENTLY. Thats what a lot if classic players dont like. Yes theres more. Sure, its not as easy as it looks. But the whole purpose of the scheme is to make things generally easier to access. So we notice when were playing an opponent who can anti us with the single press of a button 8/10 times. In situations in which a seasoned Classic player may only get 6/10. Theres layers to why. That involves the mental stack, execution barrier and commiting to certain hand positions to defend or pick a specific option to retalite. Modern plays deal with that in principal but have a noticably easier time being able to play reaction based. We notice when a modern player is mash for that one hit that will lead into a tekken like string combo that nets them large albiet nerfed damage as reward. And we feel demoralized still when we get hit by a stray mash style that the scheme faciliates for 40-50% knowing you pressed a much a simpler pattern of buttons and didnt have to deal with any of the typically involved execution. Stuff that we could do to and would definitely get us 50-60% damage. But we cant just mash away and get. We may not even commit to the same type of route sometimes because we know we need more practice to hit it in a high stakes moment or that we may just drop it. Thats another part of the game Modern players deal with in principal but with ease. I want players to enjoy Modern and i even reccomend it to others actively. That doesnt change the fact that Modern players can be troublesome to play and that their lack of challenges when playing are noticeably rough for us to deal with ESPECIALLY when the Modern player gets stronger. Theres a REASON why pros also choose to play with the scheme they know theres advantages and thats not to be taken lightly in this type of discussion. It doesnt boil down to "Are Classic players just being bitches or are Modern controls broken." No its a controversy because the two types are in the same game and while thats great for the general success and accessibility it creates a dynamic that allow players to approach the game with a different set of challenges that the oppsing style inherently doesnt have to deal with. The PROBLEM is the ego and misunderstandings on BOTH SIDES. Where Modern players will assume theyre dominant or rhe better player due to results and never speak on their strengths and advantages. And Classic players will discredit and gatekeep Modern players out of some faux sense of tradition and shallow sense of everyone having to have a right of passage. Im not saying i dont like your video. Im saying it contributes to a narrowed perspective that definitely favors Modern players without truly getting to the meat of what the fuss is all about. Its a much more nuanced and detailed conversation than this video makes it out to be.

[@DePeza]

The point of the video IS modern controls, everyone knows classic, the whole conversation is a friend who is a modern player and he gets shit for it like everyone else. It's the number 1 controversy talk in the FGC about SF6 and most likely future games onward the It's already a known fact that both types of players will continue to shit on on another to separate the too as shown in 3:36 I know what you're saying with already known facts, but at the same time it felt like you didn't understand the video to some points of degree and that's ok

[@theWIIISEguy]

@depeza138 It's a big topic, and I feel like I do understand the point of the video. I just personally feel like it falls short to explain the full picture. Even from a Morden players perspective. Not everyone who plays it gets shit on. Which was heavily implied, and pros haven't always been paraded for using it. I'm just saying this shows one aspect of the controversy. I simply wish more things were taken into account that better explains both sides. Not everyone understands how both schemes work. Not everyone understands the nuances of both control schemes. You may know, but not everyone does. It'd be unfair to claim such a thing. Because if everyone knew and understood classic and modern, the debate wouldn't be as big of a controversy.

[@soneca798]

People who complain about modern DEFINITELY have LTG energy. Looking for something to blame outside of their own skill issues, seeing it as an easy excuse to say why they lost. Modern has done wonders for this game bringing in so many new people but they just seem to ignore that

[@Slashbeatemup]

I can’t respect it because modern players have no sense of being mix up because it makes it easier for player to react because they don’t feel the need to actually train muscle memory

[@FGCScrub]

I suck at at FGs, but somehow with Modern, I am winning against players better than me

[@imbeingspiedon5588]

Lol I doubt that

[@firstlast1166]

They shouldn’t disclose what control type your opponent uses

[@DD8MO610]

It’s necessary to know what control type they use to determine what their options are. You have to change up your play-style accordingly. A lot of stuff you can do vs classic is easily stopped by modern or vice versa.

[@Halo3Rat_]

they should tho

[@ahamay656]

yes they should, I refuse to fight against 1 button supers

[@alexking3153]

@@ahamay656what difference does it make how many buttons it takes to perform a move?

[@Digikid17]

@@alexking3153 the # of frames it takes to get the input reader to confirm the move. Modern control players can do supers in 1 frame, classic players can not and need to buffer.

[@asdfjgh]

It’s the devs fault for not adding a filter for control types. If they did everyone would stop complaining, if you wanna fight modern you can, if you don’t, you don’t have to

[@TK-ev]

That would be incredibly lame. The idea was that everyone play together, not be segregated or gatekept to protect fragile egos. At the end of the day anyone can use modern controls and using such controls doesn't magically grant a 2 star handicap.