The STUPIDEST OFFENSE in Patriots HISTORY

Imagine a team being so cheap that they don't even have an offensive coordinator or a man calling the plays. Well, the 1965 Boston Patriots will tell you how that worked out for them. Answer: not well. Not well at all
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[@rayneozier]

I found your channel at work last night and I’ve been binging your videos. You make solid content

[@msarzo]

I don't remember how I found this channel, but it's appointment viewing for me now and has been since the first time I went down one of its many rabbit holes.

[@82dorrin]

Welcome!

[@robcayes2531]

I’d argue last year was pretty stupid. Patricia at offensive coordinator was embarrassing and watching them play was like a high school offense. Slow, plodding, no motion, no space, everything they got was impossibly hard to get. Billy Sullivan was also equally embarrassing. Built a high school stadium and didn’t give two craps about fielding a competitive team

[@adamzielinski2001]

Don’t forget about Joe Judge as to co-coordinator. You remember punting to end the game 😂

[@tgfabthunderbird1]

I remember someone trying to apologize for Judge when he was at the helm of the Giants. Doesn't matter what team he's running; both Judge and Patricia owe their careers to Belichick, but if they don't get results, they'll be gone. The odd thing, so few of the coaches who worked under Bill don't generally become successful on their own. Like with players, Belichick knows how to get the best out of them, though I admit the past two seasons, it feels like he lost his touch.

[@adamthespinygiant]

@@tgfabthunderbird1instead of hiring competent to run my offense; why not get 2 Stooges who have no experience control it?

[@markphelt6395]

I still think that Belichick was trying to groom those two to be better head coaches. Yanno by letting learn offenses. Reid did it with Castillo

[@adamthespinygiant]

@@markphelt6395 and yet Andy Reid is better coach than the hoodie in terms of coaching tree.

[@eddiekulp1241]

The Patriots scored about 140 points in 1970 , was lot worse than this

[@thomascrowley9122]

That's a bold strategy Cotton

[@msarzo]

Not to mention the 2022 Patriots lol

[@psychorabbitt]

We don't bring up Billy Sullivan up here in Massachusetts. Almost as bad as mentioning Bucky FUCKING Dent.

[@SingleTax]

A fish rots from the head down.

[@Tadicuslegion78]

This is how bad the Sullivan era was, my uncle who grew up in that era TO THIS DAY refuses to follow the Patriots because he has too many bad memories associated for when the Patriots were garbage through the 1960s, 70s, into the 80s before the Patriots were sold..then sold..then sold again to Robert Kraft and the Drew Bledsoe era got going.

[@CTubeMan]

I’d say something about your closing line, but I have a frog in my throat.

[@VerveQuest-zc4ri]

Was waiting for the payoff, thinking its likely not as bad as the build up would indicate.....then BAM! It lived up to the hype.

[@redmustangredmustang]

That's when Sullivan and later named changed Foxboro was always a dump that the owner cheaped out on everything even the bathrooms and parking.

[@WaltGekko]

As I remember, the only reason the Pats had Fenway Park for a home field was because the city of Boston insisted on their playing there over the objections of the Yawkeys (who owned the Red Sox and Fenway Park). This led to a mess in 1966 I've noted in other comments JG could do multiple videos on: That 1966 season for the Red Sox was originally supposed to end with a two-game series at home against the then-Washington Senators (now Texas Rangers) that Saturday and Sunday (October 1-2) following an eight-game road trip to Washington, New York and Chicago to face the Senators, Yankees and White Sox respectively. Problem was, the Red Sox apparently were being kicked out of Fenway Park following their series prior to that road trip against the California Angels (now Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim) as the Patriots had home games that Sept. 25 against the Chiefs (home opener) and October 2 against the Jets. I suspect Major League Baseball tried to get the Patriots to let the Red Sox play that Friday and Saturday (Sept. 30 and October 1) and end their season a day ahead of everyone else but were denied. The two series with the Senators could not be flipped because the Senators home, DC (later RFK) Stadium had George Washington University, playing their final season of what then was called Major College Football had a home game at DC Stadium that Saturday 10/1 and the then-Redskins hosting the Steelers the next day (Sunday 10/2) that could not be moved to accommodate a flip of the two Red Sox-Senators series. That resulted in MLB having to scramble and have the Red Sox interrupt a road trip that July 4 to play the original season-ending series against the Senators in a standalone doubleheader, while the Yankees and White Sox (whom the Red Sox and Senators respectively were originally scheduled to play that July 4) also playing a standalone doubleheader in Yankee Stadium using games borrowed from a series originally slated for that Sept. 20-22 leaving that as a ONE game series scheduled for Tuesday 9/20 with the games against their original opponents made up as part of doubleheaders a couple of days later. That led to the bizarre scenario where the Red Sox finished their season five days ahead of everyone else playing the full 162 games on Tuesday 9/27 playing the White Sox in a doubleheader as apparently, the Patriots wanted the Red Sox completely out of Fenway as soon as possible. That was actually the second of back-to-back doubleheaders for the Red Sox as the day before, the Red Sox following the series with the Yankees had to return to DC to make up a two-game series with the Senators that was rained out the previous Tuesday and Wednesday (9/20-21). That doubleheader drew just 485 fans, the seventh smallest crowd in MLB history AND the smallest EVER for a doubleheader (and the Red Sox actually have at Fenway had three of the six smallest crowds in MLB history as a year earlier on Sept. 28-29, 1965, a two game series with the Angels drew 461 and 409 fans respectively for 870 total, smallest EVER for a regular two-game series and on Oct. 1, 1964 drew just 306 fans for a game against the then-Cleveland Indians (now Guardians) for the smallest ever). That doubleheader on Sept. 26, 1966 occurred on the day Red Barber, a legendary play-by-play voice for the Yankees was told HIS contract was not being renewed but was going to be allowed the finish the 1966 season, this after four days earlier (Sept. 22, 1966) the Yankees played that infamous ONE game series against the White Sox (delayed two days by rain) that drew just 413 fans to Yankee Stadium, smallest in Yankee Stadium history and the fifth-smallest in MLB history where he noted the attendance for that game and not the game itself was the story. The Red Sox-Senators doubleheader wound up being the final games of that season for the Senators as all three games of what was to have become their season-ending series with the Yankees (due to the original final series at Fenway being moved up to July 4) seeing all three games being rained out. This also meant Barber was unable to do a farewell telecast as he was never scheduled to work the Yankees final series of 1966 against the White Sox, a series where the Yankees completed a two-year "first to worst" fall from winning the AL Pennant in 1964 and finishing 10th in 1966. I'd love to see JG do this on his JG7 channel because this was bizarre and is not the whole story because the National League was also affected by the same series of storms that hit the northeast the final two weeks of the 1966 season that led to some of the AL wackiness. This included the Dodgers on the final day of the 1966 season having to win at least one game against the Phillies at Connie Mack Stadium to win the NL Pennant and avoid having to sweat out the Giants having to play a makeup game in Cincinnati the day after the 1966 season ended (Monday 10/3) where if the Giants won, the Dodgers and Giants would have had to have play a best-of-three playoff for the NL Pennant. That series in Philly did affect the Dodgers in the World Series and many felt it contributed to the Orioles sweeping the Dodgers in the 1966 World Series.

[@davidlafleche1142]

The city of Boston had no authority over Tom Yawkey, because he owned Fenway Park. One source claimed that Yawkey was actually starting to lose money on the Red Sox, so he invited the Patriots to play at Fenway to get extra income. However, when there was a scheduling conflict, the Red Sox overruled the Patriots. In 1968, the Patriots had to play a "home" game at Legion Field in Birmingham, Alabama. The state government knew about the Fenway Park situation, so they offered to build a new, football-only stadium for the Patriots. Billy Sullivan turned it down, wanting to make a go of it in Massachusetts. Yawkey sympathized with the Patriots. He was also getting tired of Fenway Park, so he hired an architect to design a multipurpose dome, which he was willing to pay for. But he couldn't get any cooperation from the city and found no room to build it. However, the huge success of 1967 revitalized Yawkey, so he decided to try and preserve Fenway Park. The only time I've ever heard of a city forcing its will upon any team was in 1975. Yankee Stadium was being renovated, Giants Stadium was still under construction, and the Giants hated the Yale Bowl. So four teams (The Yankees, Mets, Giants and Jets) were forced to share Shea Stadium for that year. It was a chaotic mess. All of them hated doing it, but the city owned Shea, so they had no choice. As for the Patriots, they agreed with the Red Sox that Fenway Park wasn't working out. They played one year at Boston College (1969) and begged Harvard to let them play there for one year (1970) while their first stadium was being built.

[@WaltGekko]

@@davidlafleche1142 Interesting. I had heard elsewhere the Pats were only at Fenway at the insistence of the city of Boston and the Pats actually had control of the stadium in the fall once their home scheduled started, causing the bizarre situation in 1966 where the Red Sox ended their season five days ahead of everyone else with a doubleheader against the White Sox in Chicago with their original season-ending series against the Senators becoming a July 4 standalone doubleheader in Boston that actually interrupted a road trip for the Red Sox (they were originally supposed to play the Yankees in Yankee Stadium that July 4 that was made up a couple of days later as part of a doubleheader while the Yankees played the White Sox in their own doubleheader that day in Yankee Stadium, borrowing two games from their scheduled Sept. 20-22 series to do it (the other played 9/22/'66 after two rainouts being the game believed to be why Red Barber was fired by the Yankees) with the Red Sox during that period playing five doubleheaders in eight days). It may very well have been after that the Red Sox regained control of Fenway after the bizarre situation that ended the 1966 season.

[@davidlafleche1142]

@@WaltGekko The Red Sox have always owned Fenway Park, as well as the land on which it was built. The city of Boston had no authority to tell them what to do with it.

[@WaltGekko]

@@davidlafleche1142 If that's true, explain the bizarre situation in 1966 that led to the Red Sox finishing their schedule five days ahead of everyone else playing the full 162 games (they finished that season on Tuesday 9/27 whereas everyone but the Senators, who had their scheduled final series against the Yanks 9/27-29 completely rained out as they were slated to end three days before everyone else). It seems based on the bizarre quirks of that season the Red Sox either were forced to move games around or were too cheap to turn the stadium back for baseball for that season-ending two game series against the Senators (causing it to be played as a July 4 doubleheader) and then back to a football configuration.

[@johnkennethnoe]

In all fairness JG looks younger to me and I suspect he was not alive in the 60's. Therefore does not know how tight money was in those days for pro football. Yes, Billy Sullivan was cheap as the whole league was trying to survive in those days.

[@CTubeMan]

At 15:00, don’t put it past the Browns to do that.

[@Jason_Maier]

No Director of Player Personnel and no Offensive Coordinator... even other noted cheapskate owners (Mike Brown, Hugh Culverhouse and Bill Bidwell) would be in disbelief. Of course, the worst thing the Sullivans did (Chuck) was promote the Jackson's 1984 Victory tour.

[@davidlafleche1142]

From a business standpoint, it was a good idea. How could anyone lose money on Michael Jackson? Unfortunately, the Sullivans didn't know who they were dealing with. Promoter Don King was even dirtier than the Sullivans and he cheated them out of the profits. Even worse, the town of Foxboro hated Sullivan, so they refused to give him a permit to hold a concert at the stadium, out of sheer spite. That's what finally broke them.

[@denisceballos9745]

Mr. Sullivan probably also saved some money by having his star WR, Gino Cappelletti (20), also be the team field goal kicker. Pretty good one too, in ‘65, Gino led the league with a 63% accuracy and made one of 53 yards. Not bad for them days.

[@davidlafleche1142]

Sullivan had no money TO save. He was so poor, he cheaped out on road trips. Sullivan rented cheap rooms anywhere he could find them and told the players to sleep on top of the beds, but not under the blankets. If they got out of the room without disturbing anything, the maids didn't need to straighten it out so they were charged less.

[@grandwazoo870]

All I can hear watching the AFL footage is the Sam Spence soundtrack!

[@chrisguardiano6143]

This is very similar to what happened that same year in the Bundesliga with SC Tasmania Berlin but with the goalkeeping (though everything about this club was terrible). Like this, the owner of Tasmania Berlin was so cheap that he refused to hire a goalkeeping coach. The result of this: the team gave up 108 goals which is a Bundesliga record to this day & lost 28 games while only winning 2 out of a 34 match season. In fact at one point during the season, the club lost 10 games in a row and in one of those games lost 9-0. When it came to scoring goals they were equally as bad scoring only 15. Not surprisingly because of all this, Tasmania Berlin also set the record for the smallest crowd ever to see a professional soccer game in Germany when 827 people saw them play Gladbach in the Olympic Stadium in Berlin which has a capacity of 80,000. For those wondering what happened to Tasmania Berlin after they got relegated from the Bundesliga after 1965-66 season, they managed to stick around for a few more years before declaring bankruptcy in 1973. However another club SV Tasmania Berlin was quickly created though this club has never made it to the Bundesliga & are currently playing in the German fifth division.

[@AdamJ617]

Speaking of UCLA QBs, are you going to drop a video on How Huge of a Bust Josh Rosen was?

[@paulframe85]

This must be about the 2022 patriots

[@9mmtrilla]

Fitting how the Pats fans are trying to bring back Pat Patriot too... very fitting.

[@Rutherford12]

No comment

[@southbeachtalent]

It is a cool logo/ jersey

[@rngfootball759]

Early 90s Patriots offense was putrid but so was the whole franchise. 22 Pats was awful yet they still won 8 games (9 if not for that dumb decision in Vegas)

[@bob8776]

Robert Kraft definitely spends money whenever and wherever necessary including at massage parlors that are fronts for sex trafficking

[@CTubeMan]

This unofficial Official Jaguar Gator 9 historian will remind everyone you made a video about the worst offensive play in Patriots history…or the second worst.

[@barbaracaroll]

I read that the AFL Patriots teams had very few fans as most were NY Giants fans and they mostly played on Saturday nights as to not interfere with the Sunday Giants game

[@ZDiddy7777]

The Patriots ALWAYS had a weak fanbase, until the Kraft/Belichik/Brady years when Patriots "fans" are ALL jumped on the bandwagon. Now that Bradys gone, that "fanbase" will shrink more each year and expose just how many NE fans were bandwagon- which are most.

[@johnkennethnoe]

You would be right and your face here looks like someone who was not born yet at the this time so you have no memories of the 60's. This was the old AFL before the merger and Super Bowls. I was a child in the 60's and the talk back then was this league is inferior and was going to go out of business. So fans back then watched the Giants and the NFL. It would take the merger and a number of years before fans realized we can have our own team and not be slave to New York. The 21st century is so different from back then.

[@barbaracaroll]

Hi sweetie you're right 👍 I just love learning about the history of the NFL!

[@johnkennethnoe]

Thank you also as I am a lifelong Patriots fan going back to the old Boston Patriots in 1966 when I was only 8 years old. I am 65 now and have seen the change. Yes, everything is so different now from back then. The Jaguar fan making these videos in all fairness was not alive back then, so he did not experience what happen in the league in its history. Here are a few facts of the changes. The early NFL struggled to survive as the rough sport of football could only be played once a week. Ah, but then came the invention of television and no sport benefited more than football. In essence the sport was made for television. In the 1950's the games first came on television with the 1958 championship game being televised throughout the country just as I was born. This caused some league expansion and the advent of a new competing league. The two leagues were competitors in the 60's with separate championship games. New television deals brought in millions of revenue. CBS outbids NBC for the NFL broadcast rights. However NBC wanted Sunday afternoon football, so it kept the old AFL alive. When I was just 8 years old the two leagues agreed to a year end game called the AFL/ NFL championship game. This eventually lead to the merger and game today called the Super Bowl. It was now Super Bowl Sunday instead of the old NFL/ AFL championship game. The person doing these videos does not know just how money was tight in the 60's for the old AFL. You worked with hundreds of thousands of dollars, not the billion television deal the league has today. So yes, the old Boston Patriots ran an offense like this with finances being tight. The old AFL was viewed inferior so most New England fans were watching New York Giant games of the NFL on Sundays back then. So the Patriots played on Fridays and Saturdays and in either Fenway Park or Harvard stadium. The merger changed everything. I never realized back then what I would see now with Tom Brady and the Pats winning Super Bowls. Television changed all sports in America.@@barbaracaroll

[@williamwilkinson6665]

Well the offense they ran against the Bears in Super Bowl XX looked pretty stupid to me .. they had neg yards at half time

[@jackmessick2869]

IDK they would have lost regardless. Only Marino had the quick release that could MAYBE beat that Bears team.

[@jackmessick2869]

Wondering what that number one scoring team from 1960 to 1965 was. I am guessing Buffalo? They were a significant step above the rest.

[@markphelt6395]

Wow. Did he even get into coaching? I guess the lack of the ubiquitous Wikipedia page might inform that.

[@Mrwillie95]

How in the world did the AFL let this happen 🤦

[@johnkennethnoe]

I was 7 years old at the time and remember the late 60's. The AFL started in the year 1960 and was fighting for survival against the NFL. No merger or Super Bowls yet. NBC a saved the AFL with a new TV contract in 1964. So money was tight and Billy Sullivan was the owner with the least amount of money. The Patriots were the last team admitted to the AFL as Billy Sullivan got the 25K necessary to get in. This was the original AFL at the time. Fans thought it was inferior to the NFL and the league would go out of business. Jaguar fan doing these videos looks kind of young to me and so was not alive in the 60's. So yes money was tight.

[@danmount9462]

What if I told you that JaguarGator9 had that dawg in him?

[@jasonfischer8946]

He posts a video everyday about NFL history. Straight up gansta!

[@danmount9462]

@jasonfischer8946 he knows the exact quarterback rating if you do nothing but spike the ball into the ground on every single play. Inspiring!

[@jasonfischer8946]

@@danmount9462 He knows if the decision of the coach is straight or whack. Step back, stupid!

[@lesliebell4189]

Former Browns Owner Randy Lerner was always cheap and he's out of the league now.

[@VerveQuest-zc4ri]

Only thing worse then Sullivan was Kiam

[@tomtalley2192]

Sullivan was a terrible owner. He borrowed $10,000. to buy the original franchise. On road trips, in the hotel in Buffalo, they would get rooms at a local hotel. Players would take a pre game nap. Sullivan told the players to not get under the covers, as it would cost $15. for the room if they did. it was only $10. if they slept on top of the bed.

[@Fireyninjadog]

RIP mike holovak

[@marcus813]

I don't know how the Pats thought not having a director or player personnel was an advantage. It didn't take them long to learn the hard way that being cheap won't get you wins at the highest level of football.

[@dondajulah4168]

I don’t think that decision was guided by increasing the probability of winning

[@davidlafleche1142]

Yes, it did take them long. One example was 1977. Chuck Fairbanks signed Leon Gray to a contract; but Billy Sullivan didn't want to pay Gray what Fairbanks offered him, so he overruled the contract and traded Gray to Houston. The Patriots badly missed Gray and were upset and distracted by the whole mess, and ended up underachieving that year. Fairbanks (one of the best coaches and certainly the best GM they ever had) got fed up with Sullivan's cheapskate ways, so he actively shopped around for another college gig...which, in turn, caused them to lose a playoff game to Houston, which they should have won.

[@johnkennethnoe]

Ah, yes the old days of tight with the money Billy Sullivan. Robert Kraft buying the team in 1994 was the best thing to happen to the Patriots.@@davidlafleche1142

[@RetroJR3379]

Too bad you dont do Hockey the Islanders did that when they promote their goalie to GM

[@stevenbauer4799]

that was different. they had no choice once neil smith walked out on isles six weeks into gm job due to not being able to run a team in cap world after being used to rags and spending $$$'s endlessly on players. and wang by then wasn't cheap and was spending $$$'s on players.

[@Fireyninjadog]

Victor kiam, and james orthwein were both terrible owners, worse than Sullivan. Kiam acted like a sexual assult case was just a joke, and made a solid team into a terrible loser. Orthwein may have replaced dick macpherson with bill parcells, but he tried to move the pats to st. Louis, and almost did, until the owner of foxboro stadium bought the team

[@ianpoyant9772]

Agreed. Sullivan was cheap as hell (not to mention the Victory Tour controversy), but at least he didn’t do those things.

[@cmdrflake]

It wasn’t as if they were a fiscal disaster. They were just plain cheap. They didn’t have a chartered bus to get from the airport to their hotel. It was on the players to get from the airport to their game or their hotel. Some of them had family or friends who got them around to the stadium. One guy hitchhiked from the airport to the stadium. Yeah. They were cheap.

[@eddiekulp1241]

Now days I could see an owner not providing a team bus . Players paid so much they could afford limousines themselves

[@biIIyball]

The Patriots were a financial disaster pretty much the entire time Sullivan owned the team. He had to borrow money just to come up with the franchise fee and then ran up even more debt running it. Even when he sold shares in the team to come up with money, he later borrowed more money later on to buy the shareholders out.

[@Frankingator]

What is this song that jg9 uses in his vids love to know

[@AdamJ617]

I think that’s an original of his.

[@OfficialJaguarGator9]

Custom track I made myself!

[@scottaznavourian3720]

We didnt have anyone callin the Offense in 2022 that ican tell

[@fallandbounce]

Thank you for spotlighting Billy Sullivan. We suffered through him for too long. Maybe not a Kiam, but terrible all the same.

[@davidroberts7282]

And yet, even if he was a bad, inept, incompetent owner, New England still managed to be a pretty successful team that had only 1 non-winning season (1981's 2-14) between 1976-88. Sure, Patriots might've been 3rd on the totem poll of favorite, most popular teams of all Boston-area, New England regional teams behind Celtics, and Red Sox, but hey you had highly-competitive teams, good, often great HOF players in John Hannah, Steve Grogan, Sam "Bam" Cunningham, Stanley Morgan, Irving Fryar, Russ Francis, Julius Adams, Ray "Sugar Bear" Hamilton, Michael Haynes, Raymond Clayborn, Roland James, late Mosi Tatupu, Craig James, all these guys were solid All-Pros, or were voted to at least one Pro Bowl during their individual careers. It didnt help New England in the 1970's and 80's that they were stuck in the same, ultra-tough, extremely competitive AFC East back then. From the early 70's to mid-80's, Miami owned the AFC East and the few seasons, they struggled a resurgent Buffalo Bills usually took their place in winning the division, aside from 3 seasons (1975-77) where old Baltimore Colts had one, last great run, Patriots were just one more good team stuck in a division where one great team mostly dominated.

[@johnkennethnoe]

The merger finally brought in millions of revenue for the Sullivans. The merger also made the Patriots relevant as the old AFL was considered inferior to the NFL.@@davidroberts7282

[@Flyerman777]

Nah the worst patriots offense was this past year 🫠

[@nicholass7563]

9k in 1965. Even with the slash he was making a decent wage. Not bad but of course a decrease.

[@WaltGekko]

And a year later, the Pats came within one-half game of playing for the AFL Championship (then in most years the ONLY playoff game other than the Super Bowl in each league).

[@jackmessick2869]

Billy Sullivan was a typical cheap New Englander. Only the Red Sox were a bigger soap opera than the Patriots in the 1970s.

[@ianpoyant9772]

Regarding Charlie Green: 1. Believe it or not, he actually does have his own Wikipedia page. You can view it, though it’s obviously fairly small, by clicking the link here: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Green_(American_football) 2. On the topic of Green’s alma mater, Wittenberg, this isn’t the first time you’ve mentioned Wittenberg in a video of yours, as their game against Baldwin-Wallace on October 3rd, 1982, was called by John Madden and Pat Summerall in a television slot that usually would have been reserved for the NFL, but at the time, this wasn’t possible due to the strike.

[@CTubeMan]

Cognac Time!

[@SingleTax]

Terry Bradshaw called his own plays. But he was the starting QB. Why the '65 Pats didn't have their starting QB do likewise is puzzling to say the least. It's not like the results could have been any worse.

[@ianpoyant9772]

That’s a very valid point. Why not just have Parilli call the plays himself?

[@johnswaim1814]

Am i the only one who hears "he's so obscure, he doesn't have a Wikipedia page..." And think..... Welp, depressed ginger won't cover this topic then

[@jeromehoward1249]

Can you do stories about former NFL players hosting game shows, like Randall Cunningham hosting "Scramble", or Rolf Benirschke hosting the daytime version of "Wheel Of Fortune"? (he replaced Pat Sajak in the daytime version)

[@MarkSmith-vy3tq]

This is one of THOSE posts. Dude spends over half (maybe more because I got so frustrated with his tangents I stopped it) the post building it up with players and stats. It makes you think you're gonna hear about the '65 crappy Pats offense but he took at least half the video to go thru team stats, NFL stats and whatnot. Didn't need to hear about all the compare and contrasts. Just wanted to hear about the Pats crappy '65 offense. Couldn't finish it.

[@VerveQuest-zc4ri]

Just seeing the thumbnail i thought this was about the 1981 team .....or maybe thd 1990 team. Early Patriots history is litteted with bad teams

[@mrmoose6619]

I just wonder where the $570,000 went when Billy Sullivan sold shares in the Boston Patriots team then...

[@morkmeatshield5373]

I would love to learn and hear more about the Billy Sullivan Era of the Patriots as well as when Victor Kiam owned the team and when James Orthwein tried to move the team to St. Louis before Robert Kraft took over.

[@davidroberts7282]

Compared to Victor Kiam and James Ortheim, Billy and Patrick Sullivan don't see like such terrible, incompetent owners in hindsight.

[@PGar58]

The Sullivans were the last owners picked for the AFL and always had financial problems. Victor Kiam was swine. Ironically James Orthwein - the owner that would have moved the Patriots to St. Louis - was the Patriots best owner before Bob Kraft.

[@johnkennethnoe]

I was alive back then. Billy Sullivan was going broke and Victor Kiam was over his head financially. Orthwein only bought the team to gain influence in the NFL to put a team in St. Louis in the new domed stadium. Then he was going to sell the Pats once St. Louis got its team. Then the NFL gave the expansion teams to Charlotte and Jacksonville so he wanted to move the Pats to St. Louis. Only thing stopping him was Robert Kraft had bought the old Foxboro Stadium in auction for 19 million and the Pats still had 9 years left on the lease. So either wait 9 years or buy out Robert Kraft. He offered 70 million to Kraft to simply tear up the lease and 1994 would be the first year of the team in St. Louis. For over a month RK refused and so Orthwein instead of waiting 9 years agreed to sell the team to RK. It was nail biting time for us Pats fans. Would the final home game against Miami be the end of the Patriots? Television stations from St. Louis were there doing a story on the swan song of the NE Pats. There were even planes flying over the stadium with banners saying St. Louis loves the Pats. So to be blunt Mr. Robert Kraft saved football here, otherwise 1993 would have been my final year as a Pats fan.

[@johnwayne5365]

Somebody get on that Charlie Green Wikipedia page!

[@ZDiddy7777]

Bob Nutting heard your little soliloquy about an owner being forced to sell due to not fielding a competitive team and being so dirt cheap as to ruin the integrity of the NFL etc... @ 17:39 and laughed for 20 minutes straight. Then called MLB offices to report that he traded the Pirates best 3 prospects for 2 L-screens, a box of balls and 2 tickets to "Indiana Jones and the Dial of Wokeness"