The Swarmkeeper Slingshot - D&D: Optimized #61

[@DnDDeepDive]

Let's talk about something I should have discussed in the video: the potential conflict between "make a ranged spell attack" and using a weapon to make that attack. The wording for Magic Stone says that we (or someone else) can throw the stone or use a sling to throw it, and to do so we "make a ranged spell attack." Contrast that with the Archery fighting style, which tells us that you get a "+2 bonus to attack rolls you make with ranged weapons." Similarly, the Sharpshooter feat says that you can make the attack at -5 to hit, +10 to damage when you "attack with a ranged weapon that you are proficient with." To me, there is no prohibition here from these features benefitting from a spell attack, so long as the spell attack is made with a ranged weapon we're proficient in (i.e. by putting the stone in a sling). Obviously, you and/or your DM may disagree. Now, making a ranged spell attack is 100% not the same thing as taking the attack action. So there's *definite* conflict with, say, Extra Attack. These are all absolutely things you'll want to discuss with your DM before playing this character in game, and I apologize for not bringing them up in the video! :)

[@thesinginggeneral612]

Thank you so much for clarifying and finding an awesome way to use a sling 😁

[@christianbyrnes5991]

Only half serious. A pebble is a small stone made smooth and round by the action of water or sand. Have a specially crafted handcrossbow to fire the stone? Lol

[@TheOnlyRealIRONicMAN]

I think the bigger problem is the difference of making a ranged spell attack and making a ranged weapon attack with regards to the first bullet point of the Sharpshooter feat, allowing for ranged weapon attacks being made without disadvantage at long range. Since ranged spell attacks and ranged weapon attacks are, AFAIK, basically mutually exclusive, this build, which depends on making ranged spell attacks, wouldn't get the first benefit from sharp shooter, limiting it to usual 30/120 ft range of the sling. At least that's the problem I ran into recently while trying to build my own Swarmkeeper...

[@MatthewDragonHammer]

This would be a great topic for a Quick Ruling in the next Slidin' into my DM's.

[@DnDDeepDive]

@@TheOnlyRealIRONicMAN Correct. I must often fight on small battlefields, as that hasn't often been a problem for me when I'm playing ranged :)

[@EddyNoiz]

Makes a goblin that does not know they are magical. He just reaches into the bag to find "the good ones" and he cast magic stones without realizing it 😆

[@AuthoritativeNewsNetwork]

Magic item suggestion: The Two-Birds Sling from the Theros Book - "When you make a ranged attack with this sling and hit a target, you can cause the ammunition to ricochet toward a second target within 10 feet of the first, and then make a ranged attack against the second target."

[@ghostfather1390]

if a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, then 2 birds in the hand is better, of course

[@benoleno96]

@@ghostfather1390 winner winner (double) chicken dinner

[@ghostfather1390]

@@benoleno96 winner winner chicken chicken dinner dinner heh heh oh oh I I can't can't seem seem to to stop stop

[@undrhil]

@@ghostfather1390 well well you'd you'd better better

[@goldenrichards6015]

that attack would be made with dexterity with the original d4+dex. but it would be fun to push even more enemies around in your thorns

[@darkblade190]

About the constant upkeep in casting, I once used a PAMlock with a Staff of the Adder. While out adventuring, I would reactivate the snake head every minute or so, and the compromise that the DM and I reached is that when combat began I would roll a d10 to see how many rounds were left before it expired (since your character won't know exactly which of the 10 rounds per minute combat will break out). Try running that by your DM if they won't autoaccept the precast magic stone.

[@darkblade190]

Also, couple RAW issues touched on in this video (not big changes, but it does affect it on the edges). 1) You can't ritual cast Find Familiar from Arcane Trickster, they lack the Ritual Casting feature and it's not a druid spell for you to use their Ritual Casting 2) You can only have one familiar, as both the druid feature and the spell involve casting the spell "Find Familiar." You can change the familiar's form when you recast it, though. 3) Interesting wrinkle with the sell Magic Stone. I don't recall the exact logic, but I recall awhile back in a RAW group that anything that boosts your spell attack modifier will stack with your ranged attack. If you have a wand of the war mage (or Enhanced arcane focus from the Artificer class) it will add, as well as a +1 sling (or repeating shot infusion). This gets a bit messy as you'll have to drop the wand to load the sling, and burn a "Use object interaction" to pick it back up before you fire, but it does help. As such, you should be able to get +2 to hit, and +1 to damage, if I recall correctly, with a 2 level dip into Artificer. I believe this is the Crawford Tweet: twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/940654827683631110?fbclid=IwAR1EkV8wg7aZMuX8kefR1AG8b1ITWuwACfU8ozAYcClv8rY6dr2qCH1swuc

[@snazzyfeathers]

What is a pamlock

[@AliceIsSleepy]

@@snazzyfeathers Polearm Master Warlock

[@darkblade190]

@@snazzyfeathers Polearm master warlock. Often a hexblade, pact of the blade, but not always.

[@kathrynck]

I allowed that as a DM. But I ruled that if they rolled a 1 on the d10, then they had disadvantage on any dex save vs. traps, initiative rolls, etc. cuz they were caught while casting. Just to make it a little bit of a pro/con decision for them to be doing that.

[@zacharywiesel900]

If your custom liniage turtle, the swarm could live in your shell!

[@Duncan55Watson]

I like that alot.

[@cham888]

Or you could be a grung and rp a Suriname toad for a horror campaign.

[@annagarman8016]

I asked my DM about letting Magic Stone scale by adding to the number of stones you can enchant at one time. 3 at level 1, 5 at 5, 7 at 11, 9 at 17. It's really nice for keeping up with extra attack and preserving my bonus action. You could also propose 3-4-5-6 if they don't like 2 per scale-up.

[@WolfHreda]

I really like this idea. Unlike Shillelagh, it makes a lot of sense for this one to have some sort of scaling to keep up.

[@on_certainty]

fantastic

[@m_c_weba]

Heads up: you cannot benefit from the casting of Find Familiar twice, so you cannot have 2 familiars this way. I wish it wasn't so, but the Druid's Wild Shape replacement specifically states that you cast a modified version of the Find Familiar spell, so it would not combine with your Wizard version of the spell.

[@michaelpace951]

This would make an excellent vampire themed character! Use bats as your swarm, summon bat familiars, and shape shift into a bat. Absolutely love the build!

[@willcannon9352]

Never have I so consistently looked forward to a weekly KZbin video. Great stuff!

[@relaxedfantasyreview]

Can I just say, that the little song you sang at the beginning really made me smile? I love those moments of impromptu creativity 🤗

[@leokoten]

I was not expecting that, really! I'm very impressed that this build is actually very good, and all features only works because of the sling. Really good build, amazing me as always!

[@DnDDeepDive]

Thanks!

[@Duncan55Watson]

I agree. This is one of the builds too where all of the choices feel right to me. Both for RP, Utility and combat effectiveness.

[@God_Forger]

My approach to the always casting magic stone problem would be for my character to invent a common magic item. Satchel of Magic Stones: This small pouch can store up to 20 stones, instantly transforming them into magic stones (as per the magic stone spell). The stones remain magical for up to 1 minute after they leave the pouch.

[@dienezdarcprowlyr9406]

Hello, hello, hello, hello. Im glad i came your way.....to share with you on dungeoning day and to smite the dragons in an optimized way..

[@DnDDeepDive]

ha! yes!

[@Treebohr]

That opening song made me smile. I haven't heard it in a long time.

[@rdchris6556]

If you know, you know.

[@zetsugami00]

It was a pleasant surprise!

[@optimus2200]

Slings are THE weapon you bring to a skeleton infested crypt , rarely any thing ever satisfying as dealing 40 damage to a skelton with sharpshooter and a pebble XD

[@quendi5557]

I like how a tonne of people I know, me included, make some of the weirdest swarms. My friend is going to have a swarm of ducks and I have made one which is just a gang of meerkats. To clarify something, these meerkats all have a name.

[@DnDDeepDive]

ha!

[@infamousmormon6464]

As soon as I heard the primary song I knew it was gonna be a good build.

[@johneubank8543]

Goodberry > cure wound imho Zephyr's Strike is _so_ good - lets you use a bonus round to move if something ends its turn next to you. DMs love to put monsters in your face, if you're a ranged attacker.

[@clarioneversole9013]

Goodberry as dollops of honey from your bees.

[@johneubank8543]

@@clarioneversole9013 nice!

[@johneubank8543]

@@clarioneversole9013 Zephyr's Strike could be Killer Bee Strike!

[@Nercrontyr]

Love that spoiler alert :P. Also thank you. Im literally brainstorming a swarm keeper build using slings. Also, go go chicken swarm keeper

[@intothekey]

Haha awesome, I'm working on a strength based grappler one gotta keep them inside the ensnare/web!

[@AngelCanseco1]

Kind of want to make a kobold artificer with swarm lvl 3 who uses a sling

[@aedwa021]

The boy in the green tunic shivers in fear

[@horbi3683]

Very creative build, thanks so much! And I am sure there are DMs out there that would support it with regards to extra attack because it's more interesting than CBE and not overpowered. And also I wanted to say that I am happy for you that you have more and more sponsors! You deserve it 🙂 And by the way, I backed the Battlezoo Bestiary because of your ad 😉

[@DnDDeepDive]

Thanks! And good to know!

[@lord6617]

40:00 need telekinetic feat to 'technically" be the best mage hand user.

[@androlgenhald476]

There is one other way of using your spellcasting ability to attack with a sling. Battle Smith Artificer with the Repeating shot infusion. I was literally working on that build yesterday. (But I still love the build! As usual)

[@androlgenhald476]

It also takes away the need for a bonus action cantrip casting

[@DnDDeepDive]

@@androlgenhald476 Yep, having Int as our attack stat is really nice if we can get it. Went this route with my Blood Hunter build...

[@TStirlingLittle]

This is one of the most clever and fun builds you have done so far! Im DMing for a swarmkeeper right now, and Ill be advising her to watch this. I would love to see a conquest paladin build for control/tanking sometime, maximizing the fear mechanic. giving a ton of enemies disadvantage on attack rolls and immobilizing them seems like it could be utilized creatively. perhaps a candidate for a 2-character build with a glass cannon melee build to dart in and take out debuffed enemies.

[@DnDDeepDive]

Thanks! You might enjoy this if you haven't seen it yet... (though the conquest pally bit comes on a little late) kzbin.info/www/bejne/qYebfpt4ls-Lqqc

[@TStirlingLittle]

@@DnDDeepDive I had missed this one! Thanks!

[@TStirlingLittle]

@@DnDDeepDive ah yes now that I've watched it, it's exactly what I had in mind! That sounds so fun to play. Great stuff as always

[@94doodle]

This was great inspiration, I discovered that a Loxodon can double up on the Enhanced Weapon and Enhanced Arcane focus for a +4 a/d roll on Magic Stone!

[@jeremynadaskay7872]

Made a warforged swarmkeeper with a swarm of raccoons. He was a bunch of raccoons in a suit of armor.

[@nicholass5621]

I absolutely adore this build. As a huge fan of rangers, and a sucker for SAD builds, and someone who just LOVES optimizing with rarely used weapons, this character is right up my alley! Thank you for the build :)

[@colinlogan2909]

Mage Hand Story (in short): My DM contrived an epic tourney that came down to a 3 on 3 mounted combat between my party and the BBEG's Lieutenant. The Lord Herald waves the flag, combat is on, to the Death! My rogue casts Mage hand and un buckles the saddle of the Lieuy, fail Dexterity, he is on the ground. Our DM is awesome and we love him but all's fair...P.S. love the build. I'd also like to see more niche' builds.

[@DnDDeepDive]

Ha! Awesome!

[@DisplayKeesBack]

Don't forget Create Bonfire, let your swarm shove them back into it. It uses concentration, but it is an extra option.

[@SeanClaudeVanQuam]

I think the absolute best Mage Hand user is a capped intelligence Arcane Trickster that takes Telekinetic but only after learning it from Arcane Trickster, in order to double the range it is usable in. (I'm actually really surprised you've never mentioned that little bit from Telekinetic or utilized it, Colby!)

[@patricks2645]

Mage hand shenanigans: I have a swarmkeeper and a wild magic sorcerer playing in their first games that lasted more than 2 sessions. I have given them a few iconic items by giving them a bag of holding and an immovable rod, weighing 15lbs and 5lbs respectively. They came up with the idea of putting themselves in the bag (both small races) from the shoulders down, and putting the strap of the bag around the immovable rod. Then using the collective 20lbs of lift and 2 actions of the mage hand they can pilot it around like a little flying machine, click it in place and drop some snipes from above. I love playing with my engineer friends.

[@DnDDeepDive]

Ha! Awesome!

[@samuelbroad11]

sadly Mage hand can't activate magic items, we tried something similar with a rope and immovable rod.

[@evrypixelcounts]

If the build wasn't already so feat dependent, then I would probably find a way to include spell sniper to double the range, however that might be a good way to get the spell at level 1 with variant human or custom lineage, for a different kind of sling build

[@RayPoreon]

While spike growth does have higher damage potential, I think there's a really good spell that hasn't been mentioned that can (sort of) deal with the need for advantage: Web. (you get the spell anyway as part of the subclass) Web is able to restrain enemies in an area when they enter it or when they start their turn in the area, it also becomes difficult terrain. Now the interesting thing is how this combos with gathered swarm. A creature that escapes the web is not likely to have enough movement to get far enough away or into melee range due to the difficult terrain, which means that if you can hit them after they get out you can force them to make a save and throw them right back in if they fail. If you don't need to put anyone back into the sticky zone you can attack those inside with advantage because they are restrained. This might have less individual dpr but assuming that the wizard isn't chucking a fireball at it then it's massively boosting the dpr of your teammates while having massive control of the battlefield. Better yet, if someone else casts web(or a similar spell like black tentacles) then you can cast spike growth and throw them around inside the area, dying the webs red with blood. I was actually thinking of what build might work for bulling enemies with web and I forgot that swarmkeeper was also the swarm yeeter. Instead of starting with druid you can start as a fighter and pick up archery, then pick up druidic fighter from ranger. It's a little slower since you won't have the right stats from level 1-2 but if you're starting at level 3, no problem. Doesn't give as many spell slots but does allow you to pick up samurai for the 3/long rest advantage on all attack rolls per turn. I'm not sure how worth this is(I'm not much of a number cruncher) Another way to use a sling is as a ranged side-arm on a bladesinger. It's only an extra 1d4+dex(or 1d6+INT if you take artifice initiate or 1 level arty dip, or 2d4+dex if you go for dual wielding and hang a bunch of loaded slings off your belt to switch to) but it's better than nothing. But if ranged bladesinger is what you're going for it's better to just go drow(or astral elf) and focus on hand crossbows or to pick up the gunner feat on variant human if your gm allows it.

[@cabie58]

Props to you, Colby Making a sling wielding build so much fun-looks like a blast to play!

[@shishkabobby]

I was imagining slinging Goodberries to heal at range and slinging hornets for poison damage. A range version of the Way of Mercy Monk. Not for gameplay, just for giggles.

[@jefferynicholas6765]

I was having a cruddy morning and your singing intro here was wonderful for helping me out. THANKS!

[@DnDDeepDive]

Ha ha any time! :)

[@TenFires]

Keep up the good work, Colby and crew :D

[@danielswan2850]

Lake Isle of Innisfree is my favourite poem 🤩 amazing!!

[@patricks2645]

Recommendation for saving youtube cards: make optimized playlists by class, i.e. a warlock class playlist would have a level 20 warlock build, but also every hexblade dip. Then, when you make a build you can use the cards to link to the playlists that use the same classes as in the build from the video.

[@Nicolas-gn7nz]

Your videos are awesome! Sometimes i can't really follow what you are saying, because I'm quite new to DnD, but you're so positive about everything that you say that I keep going and watch how happy you are:-)

[@DnDDeepDive]

Ha ha thanks! Glad you are here :)

[@muskrat7444]

It's been a while since I've commented. But I just have to say that this is hands down my favorite build so far Colby! I think I'm on my 7th time watching this. My group starts our new campaign in two weeks and I'm going to be playing a variation of this with the gunner feat and my swarm will be a single animal. I think for flavour this works perfectly if you want to play a beastmaster where your animal companion is used more for control instead of damage. Thanks for the inspiration. Keep it up!

[@DnDDeepDive]

Thanks! Glad you enjoyed and hope you have fun!

[@johngleeman8347]

"Who cares about the damage?" Who are you and what have you done with Colby? XD

[@DnDDeepDive]

Ha ha! Sorry, lost my mind for a sec. Won't happen again >.>

[@jamescampbell2353]

@@DnDDeepDive please lose your mind more often. It reminded me how fun the game is when you optimized a character for roleplay instead of being a yummy yum crunchy number festival.

[@dwightweiers830]

So excited to watch this build unfold!

[@fledgling9097]

When I built my swarmkeeper I chose circle of the stars druid and multiclassed one level into Cleric (arcana domain for more cantrips) to get access to healing word. exceptional healing with chalice form. Guiding bolt for free. If you ever get into melee range you can use Shillelagh, bonk your enemies with booming blade and push them away to gtfo.

[@TheCasualGM]

I have one heck of a mage hand story. We're playing ToA and we're level 11, and we decide we want to go shopping for magic items in Port Nyanzaru. We pick up some cool things, don't remember exactly what as this was a couple years ago now but the merchant says they have one item they could show us but we probably won't be able to afford. Us being curious of course want to see what it is, and lo and behold they bring out a Ring of Three Wishes which was 200,000 GP. We of course definitely cannot afford this but are excited that we can possibly get it if we save up. However, our rogue decides to play it risky, using his invisible mage hand and rolling a Nat20 Sleight of Hand check to steal the Ring from its box and before anyone can do anything he puts it on and wishes for everyone to know that the ring always belonged to him and that everyone who knows of its existence knew it was his, and it worked. Any hostility was immediately defused and he became the owner of the ring. Fortunately for my DM, the player was merciful with his last two wishes and just wished us all to be resistant to fire and that his ruined mansion that he bought back in Thundertree was rebuilt. An ancient red dragon in Chault did start coming for him once he claimed the ring but fortunately we managed to avoid that encounter once he used the last wish. Moral of the story is: don't show any super expensive magic items to a rogues, especially ones with an invisible mage hand

[@bskec2177]

RAW, Magic stone is a spell attack whether thrown or used as sling ammunition. It absolutely should count as a weapon attack though, and I would count it that way in-game. It's a spell I don't see often. Rangers usually go long-bow, druids use other spells, and it's on the artificer list, but is almost useless to them, as they all get better options at level 3.

[@gnawedwick]

i may be mistaken, but you can cast spike growth, and the cantrip magic stone. magic stone is both a cantrip, and a bonus action spell. which is allowed to cast at the same time you cast a regular spell!

[@bryankia]

Such a fun build. Post Tasha’s I think ranger may be my favorite class. While I know they are not top tier the fact that they are middle of the pact is all I need. Keep up the great work.

[@Duncan55Watson]

I love this. I like the idea of hummingbirds for the swarm.

[@ericmerrill9808]

Are you reading my mind Colby? Spying on me? My friend asked me to figure out a rogue healer after I made him a bard tank. So I was like, use the healer feat and thief. Then use alchemist to make more healing with the elixirs. Then he was like what’s next? I responded, well nature cleric gives me magic stone and bless, combined with a sling and sharpshooter and 2 levels of ranger I have a scary accurate rock pelter wearing heavy armor! After that he just kinda looked at me funny. You guys get me though, building is fun!!! Also I always liked the idea of combining this with fey wanderer to double duty as the face of the group and have powerful summons to gang up on people. And turning your mage hand invisible is in character because you wanted little fairies as a swarm, and little fairies would totally turn invisible and then pick locks and pockets for you!!!

[@DnDDeepDive]

Nice!

[@theblindbuildergrandminuti5648]

I was just looking up some of the UA options again, and ‘strike of giants’ feat and ‘Keenness of stone giant’ The strike of giants stone giant option counts for melee and thrown weapon attacks, so stacks with current path of giants UA subclass. Now, the Keenness of the stone giant will work as a magical ranged attack you imbue you PB worth of stones to become 1D10 bludgeoning damage using STR, CON, or WIS mod for hit and damage (using the stat you upgraded with this feat) “the magic remains in the rock until you hit with it or finish a long rest” Even if you can’t double dip magic stone with this, you can still have some extra high powered rocks that also knock creatures prone. Might not remain like this and might not be stackable, but it decently keeps in theme for this concept. So,

[@theblindbuildergrandminuti5648]

Actually says it has the thrown weapon property so it seems to stack together. you can stack this, that could be 1D6+ 1D10 + mod. For a PB worth of stones. And that means str test or be pushed 10ft + (selected mod) be knocked prone) and crusher feat will also stack. I like the idea of this on the UA path of giants.

[@MatthewDragonHammer]

Been a while since I heard that song. Does it mean what I think it does, brother? Also, great build! I love seeing uncommon weapons being used to great effect. Any hopes of seeing a blowgun get the same treatment?

[@DnDDeepDive]

It probably does :). Blowgun user on the list!

[@MatthewDragonHammer]

@@DnDDeepDive I knew it! That said, it's a little odd that I haven't heard it in a while seeing as I'm a primary teacher... I blame covid xD

[@DnDDeepDive]

@@MatthewDragonHammer ha!

[@sethlossiah4438]

That intro freaked me out. I haven’t heard that song in 20+ years… you sly sob

[@jymbeautuesday]

I thought this was a cute build idea in the beginning... and then the Arcane Trickster kicked in. Now I want to build myself a version and see what it would look like at a game. Nice job

[@dibyo156]

Could you do a 4/5 member party composition with optimized characters only? Maybe with newer builds or builds you've already done? Would be lit to get an overview of a crazily optimized power party that also complement each other well. PS. Absolutely love your optimized character series

[@DnDDeepDive]

Thanks! I get this request fairly often, but I'm just not sure I'll ever have the time to put it all together :). Or maybe it'd just be the Starry Twilight Build + the Bladesinger Nova (for perma dim light) coupled with the Yin Yang team up build :P.

[@chiekohoki]

Great, now I'm going to have the Primary Song stuck in my head all day, thanks a lot XD

[@DnDDeepDive]

😂😂

[@arcanerecovery2567]

This may be the build that gets me to try the Swarmkeeper. Thank you.

[@DnDDeepDive]

Woo hoo!

[@wverms]

I'd 100% allow this at my table, very few questions asked. I would like to point out, however, that I believe Jeremy Crawford's two cents on this (however valuable those cents may be), are that Magic Stone benefits attacks in general, ranged attacks, or spell attacks, but not weapon attacks. So while it would work with Extra Attack, which doesn't specify weapon attacks, it would not work with options that require you to attack with a "weapon". Even if you are using a sling.

[@thearbiterofwv8314]

You CAN cast cantrips with a bonus action if you cast a spell that turn.

[@DnDDeepDive]

only if the spell you cast with your action is also a cantrip :). The rules are, basically, if you cast a a spell with your bonus action - ANY spell - then the only spell you can cast with your action is a cantrip. www.dndbeyond.com/sources/phb/spellcasting#CastingTime

[@wizzz1967cm]

Another good job with this character keep up the good work

[@phillipheaton9832]

Your characters armor should be 16. Hide armor, Dex modifier and shield. Even ancient armies field their slingers with shields, it was one of the reasons that they were preferred over bowmen until really good bows were available. If you are worried about the somatic component to cast a spell, just make the thong on the side of your sling long enough to tie to your wrist and "drop" it when you need to cast your spell. You might want to mention that the damage from The Magic Stone, shot from a sling, should be 1d6+your spellcasting ability modifier (3), or 1d6+3. The casting the spell every minute was what I used to do with Shillelagh, only I did it every six seconds. The DM quickly told me to stop, and he allowed me to have at least 9 melee rounds of shillelagh whenever combat began. 3ed level Rogues only get 2d6 sneak attack damage. Arcane Tricksters don't have Ritual Casting. Druids do, but only to cast Druid spells.

[@Calebgoblin]

I just learned about you from a comment in the Dungeon Dudes. Dope stuff

[@DnDDeepDive]

Awesome! Welcome! :)

[@z_movie_dan]

The stingshot is a build I've worked on. Different route though. I did an arcane stingshot. Had Arcane cleric with infestation and booming blade. Ranger swarmkeeper ranger. Also Bladesinger wizard.

[@seanheath711]

I LOVED my Snobold (dm homebrew), shep druid, Mastermind rogue lv 3. Our cleric loved the hawk spirit reaction for his guiding bolt, ba help action, action atk/heal or grovel for more advantages. The kobold makes the hawk spirit actually good, plus the kobold got adv with pact tactics...

[@seanheath711]

Oh and the sneak atk isn't much, but the slingshot gets sneak too...

[@salamaneinglorion5956]

Awwwww... no metal intro music. 😭 But looking forward to seeing if you can actually make a sling usable... 🧐

[@Pookey802]

I really like the idea of a sling build.

[@antuanyammine1537]

Something interesting about magic stone and his effective range. When you throw a normal stone it has a 30/60 ft of range, but using Magic Stone you can throw it at max range (60 ft) without disadvantage; this is important because this max range "passive" carries to the sling, effectively letting you shoot your shots to creatures 120 ft away without disadvantage. (Also, funny thing, real life slings shots can be as strong [if not more] as a 9 mm bullet)

[@fredslipknot9]

Also Colby have you heard of a supplement called Playing Dead? It’s on the DMs Guild. It contains a Druid subclass called Circle of the Host, which gives you a beehive or something that your body is host too. I would pair that with Swarmkeeper for the flavour alone.

[@guyver6622]

I like combining Swarmkeeper Ranger, and Circle of Spores. So I can kill my enemies from afar with Necrotic daming as a reaction and turn them into Zombies. I like the theme of Infecting my fire ants swarm wth Ophiocordyceps Unilateralis. So I'll put a bunch of arrows in their body, and with their last bit strength as they crawl toards me to reach form my foot, my Ants will bite them and infect them Lanect Liver Flukes and turning them into Zombies. and then I use the Zombies as meet shields.

[@siotekiwolfgramm5303]

Through Arcane Trickster you can get the Silvery Barbs spell. Great way to get advantage for one of your attacks when you don’t have your wild shape and to protect your allies/yourself

[@samircancel1802]

And this is why Balearic Slingers were feared throughout history

[@bwaresunlight]

Because they threw magic stones?

[@samircancel1802]

@@bwaresunlight Yes lol, heavy af lead magic stones.

[@Zarsla]

RAW: You can only have 1 familiar at a time. Thus no 2 familiars.

[@CitanulsPumpkin]

There's still some cool ways to stack knowing the find familiar spell with the Tasha's druid summon familiar trick. Step 1. Cast the spell as an hour and ten minute long ritual to get your "optimized" flyby attack bird familiar. Step 2. Come up to a water hazard or something that requires a different familiar than your standard bird. Snap your fingers and cast find familiar as a single action to resummon your familiar as a different animal with different stats. Octopus for swimming and dark vision. Spiders for climbing around cavern walls. What ever you like. Whether the change is permanent until you cast find familiar again as a ritual, a spell, or as a wild shape charge, or the change only lasts a few hours and then the familiar switches back to its first form is up to DM interpretation.

[@Zarsla]

@@CitanulsPumpkin True, but repeat you can only have 1 familiar at a time,where as in the video DDO was saying you can have more than one, which you can't. Or at least not with Find Familiar, you'd need flock of Familiars to do that.

[@michaellavy3269]

Only thing that could make the mage hand use better would be the telekinetic feat to get 60ft range. The bonus action is already saturated in this build but the feat comes with a fun shove than can even help allies move out of harms way or shove enemies.

[@joehales6153]

I'm close to begining another campaign, and I'm now set on the idea of playing this build, if edited a little. Thank you d4 network, and keep up the great content.

[@intothekey]

One thing people overlook is a sling is one handed. It can be used with a shield.

[@DnDDeepDive]

Unfortunately, it also has the ammunition property, and, as such, we're told "you need a free hand to load a one-handed weapon." - www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/equipment#WeaponProperties

[@intothekey]

@@DnDDeepDive Oh I didn't catch that!

[@spectralfire4842]

I was hoping the 5th ninja turtle would be named Caravaggio.

[@DnDDeepDive]

lol

[@David_Gallaher]

I have a sling Gloomstalker with sharpshooter and I love it

[@gavinlangston603]

I like the idea that this 'Tortle' is a soft shell variant

[@undrhil]

I played a sling using hexblade Halfling in Adventurer's League from 1 to 20. It was so much fun!

[@trollpatsch.]

This really reminds me of a build I made, which I called "the brat". A genie warlock battlemaster with the same basic idea of being an annoying little shit with forced movement and control... but I didn't really lean into the magic stone. I think I have to revisit the build, this was really inspirational!

[@matthewsmoot1981]

"This one throw reeeel good"

[@tidaltorrent]

25:24 Wouldn't you be able to cast Spike Growth and Magic Stone on the same turn, since one is a leveled spell and one is a cantrip?

[@DnDDeepDive]

Unfortunately, the rules state that, if you cast any spell as a bonus action, no matter whether it's a cantrip or a spell slotted spell, the only other spell you can cast that turn is a cantrip with a casting time of one action. Obviously, your DM may rule otherwise... www.dndbeyond.com/sources/phb/spellcasting#CastingTime

[@sha2143]

@@DnDDeepDive So cast Spike growth with your action first, then use your bonus action to cast magic stone. Should work just fine.

[@DnDDeepDive]

@@sha2143 Alas I don't believe so. If you're going to cast a spell with your bonus action at all, the rules just don't allow anything but a cantrip with your action. Again, your DM may rule otherwise :).

[@CB-vx1fu]

Metallic dragonborn is also a valid option for this build with repulsion breath

[@bwaresunlight]

For once I disagree with a choice Colby made! Only because I built a very similar character myself a few months ago. IMO Stars druid is a far better choice here. I mean advantage is pretty easy to come by in a full party, using Sheppard reaction to grant advantage seems cheesey to me. Stars druid will get you an extra 1d8 bonus action action ranged spell attack EVERY turn. So you could sharpshooter two shots and bonus action stars shot each turn. When you run out of magic stones, you use your action to recast and can still make use of your weaponized bonus action ranged attack. Also if your party is in dire straights you can swap to healing constellation and heal your butt off. Other than that choice, I LOVE this character idea!

[@DnDDeepDive]

RAW you can't decide to use your action to cast a spell with a casting time of a Bonus Action, unfortunately (something that I really hate). Which means that we'd only be able to get off the BA attack every other turn at best, I think. Of course, even if it were permissible, if the choice is "Bonus Action magic stone so I can do 1d6+Wis+10 (sharpshooter) twice, or Action Magic stone so I can 1d8+Wis once," it doesn't seem like much of a choice :). Still, Stars Druid can be a fun option and is worth considering. I never like to make builds under the assumption that our party will be able to do X or Y, though, so always try to be as self-sufficient as possible.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

I hate to say this, but whether you throw a magic stone or use a sling to hurl it, according to the cantrip, it is a ranged spell attack, not a ranged weapon attack. "You or someone else can make a ranged spell attack with one of the pebbles by throwing it or hurling it with a sling."

[@DnDDeepDive]

Ha ha - hey Chris! I was thinking about this, actually, and can definitely see this being a conflict, RAW. Here's a question though: the Archery Fighting style says: "You gain a +2 bonus to attack rolls you make with ranged weapons." I find it hard to believe that we couldn't have this added to our attack, as we're simply told "attack rolls you make with ranged weapons," and, if we're putting the stone in a ranged weapon (sling), we're doing just that, even if it's technically counted as a spell attack. Sharpshooter has similar wording. Obviously, there's potential conflict with Extra Attack as we're not technically taking the Attack action. Should have discussed this in the vid.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

@@DnDDeepDive Your golden on everything that says "attack with a ranged weapon" or something similar, but screwed on anything that says "ranged weapon attack" because for some weird language reason, these are 2 distinct things (and "ranged spell attack" and "ranged weapon attack" are distinct). So with Sharp Shooter (for example), you can do the -5/+10 attack because it says "Before you make an attack with a ranged weapon" so no problem. But with the range portion it says "doesn't impose disadvantage on your ranged weapon attack rolls" so it doesn't apply to ranged spell attack rolls. And you're right, extra attack definitely doesn't work with ranged spell attacks, but archery style +2 can be added.

[@DnDDeepDive]

@@TreantmonksTemple Cool - pinned a comment a minute ago about this. Kicking myself for not discussing in the vid :). Thanks for helping with the clarification!

[@Constro]

Already posted this on another thread but I better post it here too: The attack action doesn't specify that you need to make weapon attacks, and magic stone doesn't specify that you need to take an action to make the spell attack (every other spell attack does, afaik). I think there's a fairly good argument here that there's no conflict whatsoever between magic stone and extra attack.

[@TheRobversion1]

love me some magic stone builds as i use this spell alot as additional dpr. btw i love the outtakes you include at the end of the vids. they weren't there before i took a "hiatus." since you took arcane trickster, the circle of the shepherd dip feels redundant. it just adds to the bonus action clog to use the hawk totem. you could've just used steady aim and the familiar to get your 2 advantage attacks. the wild companion is just completely inferior to the wizard version. since you were hankering for more sustained dmg, you could've just converted those 2 levels of circle of shepherd to 2 more rogue arcane trickster levels. or perhaps dipped genie lock 1 for genie's wrath. or if you were willing to consider a "limited resource" sustained, dipped psi warrior 3 for psionic strike (this is a sustained dmg bonus for me as you get a ton of psionic energy dice).

[@jugglejunk]

Hey Colby, Could you make an episode on a ''Hide and Seek'' character, I call him Peek-a-boo. This character would (DM depending) be very good for PvP and the idea is that if you are invisible and stealthing (I think?) it requires a perception check versus your stealth and it takes an action. So either they spend an action to look for you but probably can't attack or they can't attack you because you are hidden. (there would of course be builds that could counter this, but on average the majority of builds would probably struggle with this) As a challenge you must also still deal good consistant damage and you are not allowed to use bard, ranger or rogue. Have at it, can you do better than mine? Name: Peek-a-boo Gimmigans (gimmicks and shenanigans) race: Goblin (for bonus action hide, Fury of the Small doesn't hurt either), background something to give you stealth, 3 feats: medium armor master, Skill Expert and Metamagic Adept, the rest of ASI's in the relevant stats. First lvl1 in fighter (uses a shield for AC) then, 7 lvls of Genie djinni (air) warlock (for greater invisibility, bonus action activated flight, Armor of Agathys/tankieness/temphp, devilsight and advantage on CON saves and pact of the tome for endless conversions) then, 3 of Divine soul Sorcerer (pick some healing spells for recovery, Aid for more tankieness and some blast spells for the hell of it XD - oh and don't forget to get subtle, twin, quicken and distant spell -) finish with the last 6 lvls in fighter, Rune knight (make sure to pick up the following runes: fire, cloud, storm or stone and hill) The following spells will also be essential to shutting down attempts by others to stop you: See invisibility: in case they try to go invisible themselves to buy time Non detection: protects you form See invisibility, True Seeing (True sight spell) and ''most'' other means of perception. (I could be wrong but, I think that the only ways to be SEEN are through Tremor sense (hahaha), echo location (damn you, Find familiar, stupid bats) and Blindsight (hope that no one is using shapechange or is True Polymorphing into a Dragon) Shield, magic Missile (take that familiars), Dispel Magic and Counter Spell. This should give you very good versatility and a ton of tools to tank, be (''almost'') impossible to find, self heal, evade danger and enemies and deal sufficient damage. If you go all the way to twenty take the rest in Sorcerer and maybe 1 lvl in Order Cleric (to boss charmed players around (nhehehe ... oh I love being Evil :)) Sorry for the wall of text!

[@DnDDeepDive]

Will put it on the list!

[@H3xx99]

Just imagine if your dm let you import the Bag of Bolders from 3.5. Essentially it's exactly what it says on the tin. It's a bag of boulders that are shrunk down to sling bullet size. And firing them causes them to expand in mid air... basically it's a Giant's boulder throw attack from a sling... or if you're playing with Firearms, you could load 5 of them in a blunderbus and possibly have your DM throw the book at you.

[@talkinggibberish]

pretty cool. im still going to stick with my Darts-based Bee thrower for swarmkeeper. for flavor

[@mrkay4757]

Slingshot build, SLINGSHOT BUILD

[@luizkormann314]

my character would be mad about the pixies tricking him so he would turn into an edgy rogue because of that

[@joshanderson8059]

Like this build a lot. I'm going to drop one of these as a NPC in my next session;)

[@shadly28]

I'm confused about where the sling weapon gets finesse for the rogue levels? is that something that was changed in player's handbook?

[@landodjango8107]

I was just thinking of a build befitting for DR. BEEEEEEEEES!

[@clintjohnson1045]

I like this build. I’m actually playing it now except I went circle of wildfire that I could more mileage

[@jpperron1835]

Playing my first swarmkeeper so I’m doing my homework!

[@Ama-Deus]

You can cast magic stone on the turn you cast spike growth one is a spell with a cast type of 1 action and another is a cantrip with the bonus action cast type

[@DnDDeepDive]

The problem is, if you cast any spell with a bonus action, doesn’t matter what kind of spell it is, then the only other spell you can cast that turn is a cantrip with a casting time of one action. www.dndbeyond.com/sources/phb/spellcasting#CastingTime

[@Ama-Deus]

@@DnDDeepDive i might have been playing wrongly :)) thank you for the heads up

[@Lost_Pikachu]

Love the content. I saw the short and had to find this. The fact that it is a swarm keeper (which I want to play) I'm down.... I'm going the 1 lvl cleric dip, since my swarmkeeper character idea is a bit more of a Friar Tuck. hence he slings blessed stones

[@xaotica]

I loved that build and am looking to build a character for Ravenloft. Is there a good way to make these stones an even more effective weapon against the undead with cleric or nature cleric instead of druid?

[@Lost_Pikachu]

@@xaotica do 1 cleric, 5 ranger, then all cleric. Shit just doing a cleric pure is the best way to deal with undead & spooky shit. Just let ur party know ur plan, and have a second healer. Magic stone is magic damage, no way to make it radiant

[@Lost_Pikachu]

@@xaotica I am biased toward medium armor master at lvl1 if you roll well for stats. You can make stealth a proficiency and be sneaking/tanky. Clerics passing stealth checks, now that is OP

[@xaotica]

@@Lost_Pikachu Thanks mate. Somebody in our group will, I just instantaneously had a really nice RP concept for the slinger and am now thinking about ways to slightly tweak it for Ravenloft.

[@binolombardi]

I think the telekinetic feat would round out an odd wisdom stat. The bonus action to push a creature could be used on the turn you cast spiked growth. The crusher feat would be useful to move a creature you hit with your sling 5ft in the spiked growth on hit too. And if you crit, your party has advantage vs the creature. The stat chosen can be Constitution to allow for resilient Constitution to be chosen later, this will bolster your concentration for keeping spiked growth up.

[@DnDDeepDive]

Like this. Good call.

[@binolombardi]

@@DnDDeepDive Did you see the breakdowns about how the telekinetic feats forced movement feature seems to be equal to or out scale spiritual weapon for clerics at 5th level and up? The bonus action can be used on the same turn spirit guardians is cast to pull a creature into spirit guardians on the turn you cast it. Then the creature takes the damage again when it starts its turn in the guardians. since spirit guardians scales better than spiritual weapon, telekinetic actually scales better too. It also doesn’t cost level 2+ spell slots over and over.

[@DnDDeepDive]

@@binolombardi great idea. Similar to tactics we used for the Catch 22. Push in, damage, start turn, damage. Nice.

[@dathancornwell349]

I have just started a campaign of Crown of the Oathbreaker, had the books for a while and watched quite a lot of your content, (somehow i missed this vid) and was thinking it would be awsome if you had a build with one of the subclasses for oathbreaker. Still would be great as a way to spruke the campaign as it is really well done.

[@hivefleethappiness7331]

No Multi-Class is needed to gain advantage. Just be a Kabold and use their Pack Tactics. It also Combos with all the tasty summoning spells, and ensures sneak attack damage.

[@DnDDeepDive]

I like Kobolds, but I don't think the trade off here is worth it. Delaying Sharpshooter until level 4 hurts a lot, and then your wisdom modifier increase delay etc. after that. To say nothing of the lack of benefit when you're in sunlight. I think I'd rather work around advantage, personally, but again, Kobold is worth considering.

[@jdfs21]

Air spirits as your swarm & an air genasi. (Looks like) they’re riding a cloud! ☁️ Oh! Or a queen bee & her hive 🐝