The Sword Code - Medieval Blade Design

[@swordandshield]

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[@happy_camper]

This was utterly fascinating to watch.

[@punkrockviking]

This is literally one of the most fascinating things I've ever seen!

[@swordandshield]

I thought the same when Peter Johnsson first introduced me to his hypothesis.

[@ernestsheffield9976]

A very nice detailed explanation of what you did, and a nice use of Peter's technique! Thank you. This is very educational.

[@swordandshield]

You are welcome.

[@Schmidt54]

Wow, this is really awesome. They should teach more of that in university to us historians...

[@richstone2627]

Very interesting and informative . I look forward to seeing this sword when it's finished. Thank you.

[@Glimmlampe1982]

I made a wooden sword for my son by this method. Did work great for an arming sword, but the sized down version of a longsword looks a bit odd. But that might be because it's sized down and has safety features like a rounded tip. Love to see the finished sword of yours!

[@HistoryNeedsYou]

This methodology was not only the basis of cathedrals and castles but also much carpentry. Thank you for explaining how it applies to many swords.

[@swordandshield]

You are welcome.

[@andrewholdaway813]

Your reconstruction seem quite reasonable, other than blade length which I feel you have overestimated in order to fit the circles. I am not, however, convinced that the method of circle and polygon geometry was the basis of the original design; it seems to me (having also watched some of the Johnsson videos) that you could make *any* sword geometry fit _some_ arrangement of circles, octagons, hexagons etc. That however is not proof that they were in fact designed by that method.

[@Gloin79]

I also wonder about this

[@JDahl-sj5lk]

Andrew Holdaway I also think this might be so. I’d lean towards that the larger circles might have been a guideline, as numbers and geometry was a big part of the artistic tradition of masonry and more. But it’s difficult to prove, because I would think that any sword geometry would at least fit with some of the circles as you say Andrew. Will be interesting to see more of this. If you can find that some geometric system adapts to nearly all swords, then that still might not mean anything else than that practical swords will fit such a geometric system, not that they were designed by the geometric system in mind. Must be some way to put this hypothesis to the test. I’d start with seeing whether those 7 circles, or rather, that it will be 7 such circles along the length of the swords. If 7 is a (near) universal number, that would be really be something.

[@swordandshield]

I recommend reading the book "The sword - Form & Thought", which of course addresses all these issues. It also catalogues swords from various periods including suggested geometric design. Very few do not adhere to any system. Interestingly, most Viking swords (that is actual Scandinavian designs) do not fit into this system, which is not suprising considering cultural differences between the pagan north and the Christian realms. Anglo-Saxon swords, in contrast, do fit in!

[@HS-su3cf]

What about the swords of the continental Germanic people? Have anybody looked at how those swords fit? The strength of this construction method, is that all you need is a compass and a straight-edge.

[@andrewholdaway813]

H S Yes, which is why so many fit the patterns.

[@sbmfighter]

Great theory! This reminds me of sacred geometry concepts.

[@MattsGreatHall]

fascinating! great stuff, Roland!

[@eastoforion]

Can't wait to see this sword!

[@kanonierable]

Very fascinating, the search and use for "ideal" or "divine" proportions is definitely somewhat an obsession of philosophers, scientists and artisans in the Western hemisphere from antiquity to the renaissance period, Greek natural philosophy postulated the circle being the ideal geometrical form and they went to great length to reduce or combine every existing thing in the universe as an array of circles. Lots could be said about these concepts and how certain numbers were given mystical qualities that would relate them to the creation as a work of God. To make things short, it seems very appropriate for a Christian knight to have his signature weapon shaped and loaded as much as possible in accordance with biblical numbers like seven, three or four. What would interest me the most at this point is how these circles and the various radii derived from the first basic measure are connected to the more "practical" aspects of the blade like point of balance, centre of percussion, etc. One would expect them also to be fitted inside a system that tries to define the "ideal" form. In the end it is safe to say that practicality and usability are prioritised long before any theoretical or aesthetic considerations for a man wants to avoid loosing a swordfight above anything else, so he wants all the practical advantages on his side, no matter what the bible or Aristoteles says about divine proportions. At this point I begin to realise the enormous complexity of the whole story and the smartest thing I can do is to wait and watch and listen and learn what you and the community of experts that so generously share their findings with a wider audience will come up with. Thanks a lot for your videos and your dedication. I fully trust in that practical approach that you and others are following that includes research and practice of HEMA. It opens a whole new chapter in the study of history.that I see most promising to better understand many aspects of the past. Has any modern blacksmith tried to replicate the way that the legendary Wieland forged his masterpiece, Mimung? As someone that grew up with "Deutsche Sagen und Heldengeschichten", "König Artus und die Ritter der Tafelrunde" , "Robin Hood" , "Ivanhoe" den "Drei Musketieren" and the heroic deeds of the old Swiss from Morgarten via Murten to Marignano, with tales of "kühner Ahnen Heldenstreit, Von Speerwucht und wildem Schwertkampf, von Schlachtstaub und heissem Blutdampf (ganz schön beknackt, was?)", these are wonderful and exciting times to live in! PS: I think the reason why Viking era and older European swords had no large crossguards in contrast to their appearance on later middle age knightly swords is due to the usage of the sword in conjunction with a large shield and how it would negatively interfere with this single most important protective device until the development of better and stronger armour that covered the entire body would make it possible to go into battle or duel without a shield. In turn this increased the necessity to come up with an efficient method to protect the swordhand, the answer was found with an extended and strong crossguard. Is there some value in my reasoning? You are certainly THE Nr.1 expert to ask about this.

[@swordandshield]

Thank you very much for this extensive comment and for your appreciation. Needless to say that I agree with your evaluation regarding the importance of design and proportion in the Middle Ages. Most enthusiasts are not aware of the extremely high level of philosophical discourse among leading intellectuals and scholars of the time. If the general perception of the medieval period was less biased today and based more on knowledge than cliché, than ideas like the one by Peter Johnsson presented in this video would be easier to embrace. Of course it is a hypothesis, but a very sound one. In fact, the idea that of all things medieval the sword alone would have NOT been subject to discussion of divine proportions and ideal design is a very feeble one. Regarding sword making and according descriptions in sagas and legends: H.R. Ellis Davidson has written about it in this 1962 classic: www.cambridge.org/core/journals/antiquity/article/the-sword-in-anglo-saxon-england-byellis-davidsonh-roxford-university-press-1962-pp-xxvii-237-4-plates-16-pages-of-drawings-55s/7398A3928020802426DCA533928CF5BE I am aware of a number of modern sword makers who are at the forefront of experimenting with lost techniques and reconstruct each step from melting the ore to final assembly of a sword. Götz Breitenbücher is one of them, and so is Stefan Roth and there are others. Finally, regarding crossguards: Yes, I perfectly agree. a long crossguard poses a hindrance when fighting with a large flat round shield, while it is a huge advantage in fencing that focuses on blade binds: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fKPdgHuEZ9ete5o

[@AcidbrainwashEffect]

I have no idea how this video became part of my feed. However, I'm glad I discovered it. Well Done mate, I'd buy you a sanger and a pint for this work. Cheers

[@swordandshield]

A pint is always appreciated.

[@doctorguss]

For thousands of years craftspeople used dividers and ratios to lay out their work. Something has definitely been lost by our modern reliance on rulers and prefabricated components.

[@JamesSkemp]

It would be interesting to see examples of the other types as well.

[@swordandshield]

Find a link to peter's videos on the subject here: www.patreon.com/posts/15125439

[@JamesSkemp]

Thanks! I did see the link in the description to that as well, but to be quite honest I found your video much more interesting, and the way you explain things is quite surprising.

[@Davlavi]

very cool

[@mclyker]

Fascinating. Wonder if you could predict the "balance point" of the blade using your work here prior to receiving the replica? Would like to see this system applied to other swords.

[@swordandshield]

To see more examples, please, find a link to Peter Johnsson's videos on the subject here: www.patreon.com/posts/15125439

[@MadNumForce]

No you can't. Neither CoB, nor CoP, nor vibration nodes, nor anything. It's a simple question of physics: swords are 3D objects, and mass is function of volume, not of surface. And for vibration nodes, and maybe even for CoP, you would need much more data, as vibration mode depends on mechanical characteristics that would be very difficult to describe mathematically in medieval swords because of the unevenness of the heat-treated material (uneven material, and uneven heat-treatment).

[@MerlinsJester]

MadNumForce says you

[@MadNumForce]

Go on MerlinsJester, try to compute mass and CoB from a single top-view 2D drawing.

[@MerlinsJester]

MadNumForce that would be doable if I were versed in the given style of build.

[@samuelyeates2326]

Does this mathematical analysis lead to any insights about ideal distal taper or blade width?

[@MerlinsJester]

Samuel Yeates ideal for what?

[@swordandshield]

Well, in theory you could just subdivide and subdivide a circle to ultimately get any measurement. However, I do not believe that this was intended. Sensible thickness of a particular material is determined by its physical properties. A sword smith would be the expert on these issues. However, general harmony of shape and incorporating biblical numbers in the design of a weapon may well be subject to discussion. But when it comes to finer measurements and detail, form would definitely follow function. After all, symmetry was apparently less important than a perfect orthopedic handle design, as demonstrated with examples from the 10th and 11th century in these two videos on my Patreon pages: www.patreon.com/posts/ingenious-10th-14498101 www.patreon.com/posts/off-center-on-15671471

[@samuelyeates2326]

Good point, perhaps I should have said "ideal," not ideal. I suppose that balance would be the key element, but of course given the myriad functions that different sword designs attempt achieve, even an element like balance is very subjective.

[@davidschlageter5962]

And here I thought it was more about balancing the swords weight

[@andrewmallory3854]

Indeed enthralling to watch. How much is conjecture and how much based on evidence? I’m guessing all conjecture but It does seem highly plausible. I suspect the swordsmiths worked by eye and feel, but a sword that looked and felt right would adhere to these rules. Anyway. Really enjoyed that and thanks. BTW ‘wound’ rhymes with ‘pound’ not ‘tuned’. I’m sure Roland knows and just made a slip, but I’m a wretched pedant and Roland did say it twice.

[@swordandshield]

Thanks for the correction. I did not know until recently.

[@andrewmallory3854]

You might enjoy these... 1) The bandage was wound around the wound. 2) The farm was used to produce produce. 3) The dump was so full that it had to refuse more refuse. 4) We must polish the Polish furniture. 5) He could lead if he would get the lead out. 6) The soldier decided to desert his dessert in the desert. 7) Since there is no time like the present, he thought it was time to present the present. 8) A bass was painted on the head of the bass drum. 9) When shot at, the dove dove into the bushes. 10) I did not object to the object. 11) The insurance was invalid for the invalid. 12) There was a row among the oarsmen about how to row. 13) They were too close to the door to close it. 14) The buck does funny things when the does are present. 15) A seamstress and a sewer fell down into a sewer line. 16) To help with planting, the farmer taught his sow to sow. 17) The wind was too strong to wind the sail. 18) After a number of injections my jaw got number. 19) Upon seeing the tear in the painting I shed a tear. 20) I had to subject the subject to a series of tests. 21) How can I intimate this to my most intimate friend?

[@swordandshield]

To see more examples of geometric sword design, please follow the link to Peter Johnsson's videos on the subject, provided in the original post here: www.patreon.com/posts/15125439 To clarify: I do not believe that each and every sword was elaborately designed this way - and nor does Peter. The majority of swords was very likely made by a smith in exactly the way he had learned from his master. Who had learned from his. So most were probably just copies of what was the standard of the day. Just like many illegible pseudo sword inscriptions were apparently copies made by craftsmen who were illiterate - just like their customers!

[@dynamicworlds1]

Roland Warzecha I saved those videos when I found them years ago as they're just so awesome to watch to see something built so elegantly from such simple geometric relations. A lot of architecture was done the same way too, and geometric relations were often drawn out and used in mathematics in place of basic algebra, so it's highly likely this was very intentional back when the originals were made.

[@MadNumForce]

I have another hypothesis I just realized from seeing your index finger pointing at the pommel: the small circle that his half the pommel "width" is a digitus (or it's evolution in the locality where the sword was designed and made). The distance from center of crossguard to end of pommel is then 8 digiti or 2 palmi, or half a pes (foot). The crossguard length is 7 digiti. The diameter of the circle describing the pommel top is 5 digiti. The blade length is 12 palmi, or 3 pedes. The total lenght is 3 and a half pedes. The blade is probably 3 digiti wide at the base, and 2 digiti wide 1 pes from the very tip, though using uncia (inches) might be more relevant. I would need the "raw data" to tell. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Roman_units_of_measurement No need to draw anything (which is just a waste of time and involves a drawing support and drawing instruments), just basic use of contemporary units and commonplace proportioning systems. You could then design this sword with just a yardstick and a compass for checking widths, the skill of the smiths doing the rest, each part being able to be made in autonomy since everybody in the shop, or even in the town, maybe even in the region, share about the same reference units. "Make me a crossguard that is 7 digiti long and 1 digitus thick" being much more practical and convenient than referring to a drawing that may be lost, or erased, or whatever, and that has to be traced in the first place, which is again a waste of time, and an unnecessary skill to postulate (Occam's razor: since a clever use of units allows to get rid of it, and we know with absolute certainty that unit systems were used, while there is no proof that swords were designed through drawing).

[@swordandshield]

Very interesting. But to clarify: I do not believe that each and every sword was elaborately designed this way - and nor does Peter. The majority of swords was very likely made by a smith in exactly the way he had learned from his master. Who had learned from his. So most were probably just copying what was the standard of the day. Just like many illegible pseudo sword inscriptions were apparently made by craftsmen who were illiterate - just like their customers!

[@ezzysailss]

It's amazing how geometry can help to define how a sword looked like. But what is with the length of the sword and defining it wit this method? And the question how to reconstruct the tip of the sword wit this method?

[@rexmcstiller4675]

Is the thichness of the guard also given by the sword code?

[@MerlinsJester]

Rex McStiller thinking Roland reached a point in the drafting process where he stopped himself short in mocking up a line of sub-circles for the pristine guard, saying to himself “Let’s not devolve into silliness now”

[@swordandshield]

I have not gone there, but if you would put two octagons into the two circles that touch each other in the center of the crossguard, this might provide the thickness of the guard.

[@nassersi]

nice explanation, but I spot a detail in which is taper defined as line connected between hexagon written inside circle around cross-guard and furthest side of square written inside fourth circle. This deffinition is not very clear as it can be defined pretty well as diameter of that circle. I dont thing old masters could work with needed accuracy. Taper of sword was more-less deffined by and estimate. I thing more important was estimate, calculate and finally to balance point of gravity.

[@davidbriggs264]

Love the video, very impressive. However, as a non-Native English Speaker, you mispronounced one of the words, "WOUND". Your pronunciation of that word is correct (woond) if you are talking about an injury, but it's pronounced wound (starts with the word wow) when you are talking about the past tense of wind. Sorry.

[@MerlinsJester]

David Briggs it’s the Germanic “ou”, a pronunciation which is understandable if Roland expanded his vocabulary chiefly via text. Hardly worth comment in a public forum, if one were meaning to be gracious.

[@swordandshield]

Thank you, I actually appreciate this correction. Learned something today.

[@ubique6859]

Hello Roland, Could you please advise of swordsmiths that make true swords to be used?

[@swordandshield]

There are some, but I will not post my preferences in public. Better ask on some forum.

[@ubique6859]

Roland Warzecha ok thank you for the reply and especially for the great videos.

[@asriellian3058]

This video is 14:53 long, in 1453 Constantinople fell and people use that year to signify the end of the medieval period, did you do that on purpose??

[@swordandshield]

Robert Langdon would know.

[@2adamast]

My take: They could avoid drawing any circle, having no paper and all that. Just stepping the distance with dividers. If they used wood/paper patterns instead of dividers the distances would probably have more in between proportions. The pommel top is the only 'circular' element. But as they have no programmable CNC it's probably shaped by eye and not cut by a compass.

[@swordandshield]

„Let the mind’s interior compass first circle the whole extent of the material. Let a definite order chart in advance at what point the pen will take its course. As a prudent workman, construct the whole fabric within the mind’s citadel; let it exist in the mind before it is on the lips.“ Geoffrey of Vinsauf, c. 1200

[@2adamast]

Nice reference. But does discussing rhetorics count. Stepping by hand in emulation of kzbin.info/www/bejne/aYeTmIRvgplofZo and setting like the Romans 1 handspan = 3 palm = 12 digit, I would get for that design: - Pommel 2 digit by 1 palm - Crossguard at 2 palm, leaves like 1 digit wiggle room on the guard (?).The crossguard width: sqrt(5) palm. Looks unlikely but sqrt(5)/2 comes free when marking the perpendicular with a compass, so it's there anyway. (edited as I had first sqrt(2) in mind) - Blade 4 handspan long by 1 palm wide

[@swordandshield]

Interesting line of thought.

[@WinnipegKnightlyArts]

Is that a shashka behind you to your right?

[@MadNumForce]

Looks more like a so-called "Avar saber".

[@swordandshield]

You mean on the left side of the video frame? That is a Magyar saber with too long a grip.

[@WinnipegKnightlyArts]

The one hung between the viking swords, with the bronze(?) on the edge of the sheath. I've only seen the sheath covering the hilt to the pommel design on Eastern European swords, so I was curious if there were others.

[@ghi-dorah]

Wo bekommt man das buch noch auf deutsch?

[@swordandshield]

Das Buch ist zweisprachig, deutsch/englisch, aber die erste Auflage ist mittlerweile vergriffen. Also entweder antiquarisch auftreiben oder auf eine zweite Auflage hoffen, die angeblich in Planung ist. Aber es kann nicht schaden, mal beim Museum/Verlag nachzuhaken.

[@ghi-dorah]

Schade, aber vielen Dank ;)

[@MerlinsJester]

I feel like dislikes on videos like these are due to some kind of failure to meet personal expectations Somewhere out there in the big blue world, at least 3 people are disappointed at there are no cut-up dummies/bottles, that actual learned speech is center stage, or that there is no brand spanking new sword being showcased. Can’t even begin to understand such pettiness

[@steevemartial4084]

It might be people who believe swords weren't designed that way

[@richardpashos]

so where's the illuminati?

[@swordandshield]

I am sure there is a sword inscription somewhere that will tell you.

[@SuperDraupnir]

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophenia

[@swordandshield]

Hi sword people! Would you like to receive weekly up-dates on weapons research, sword-fighting, living history and more straight into your inbox? To read previous newsletters and to sign up, go here: exciting-pioneer-6049.ck.page/a8f72e8432