The Symbolism of Technology in Christianity | From January Q&A

[@RonaldDPotts]

That's one of your more frank talks about this aspect of Christianity. I certainly appreciate that.

[@Mystagogy365]

Jonathan, have you heard of Dr. Michael Heiser? His work on the Enochian tradition helped me when I finally began to explore Orthodoxy.

[@Kolajer]

Godspeed on the number video, Jonathan, if anyone can do the topic justice, it's you.

[@josemauromoraes6203]

My God!! You've just summarized my life until now. To see my own reflection in this story brought a feeling of depth. Thank you.

[@SilentBloedius]

The hint that there is a salutory aspect to new technologies as in the case of Noah's Ark is very illuminating to me and relieves a lot of my anxiety, apprehension and fear of AI. Thank you for that, this short video is really really helpful. I feel renewed and encouraged to engage with it more

[@felipealcouto]

Jonathan, you will like "The Book of the New Sun " by Gene Wolfe. Is full of christian symbolism and it's science fantasy.

[@ProfessorShnacktime]

Yo, thank you so much for this recommendation. I’ve never heard of this and it’s right up my alley. 2 year old comment of gold.

[@greggeverman5578]

Once again very very helpful, man. Thanks so much.

[@a1r383]

I appreciate extra-biblical texts such as Book of Enoch but how do you respond to the idea that you shouldn't have to go outside of biblical texts to discover these truths?

[@michamroczkowski3568]

Just in protestant churches not in orthodox, catholic and Judaism for example church fathers, midrashes, saints, encyclics

[@chuckmacdonald1151]

sola scriptura is false.

[@gvlasovnd8630]

Very insightful! Thanks Jonathan!

[@jasonroberts2249]

The problem with interacting with ‘the machine’ is, just by our interaction with it, we are dehumanized to some extent. This is why it is crucial that, while we use ‘the machine’ for positive reasons, like for example watching your videos, we must also be careful to balance it with real life interaction with people and nature, which keeps us grounded in our humanity. I disagree that the payment systems have become “possessed by a demon”-the very nature of electronic payment was demonic from day one. This is why the Amish and Bedouins live the way they live. Because they implicitly understood this.

[@kmotynojodas]

Thanks for the video.

[@poeticalgore6500]

I saw Bret Weinstein say something along the lines of The Bible is not good enough to use for morality anymore because God does not say "don't make nukes". Pretty sure that Jesus saying love your neighbor as yourself and etc would include don't nuke mass amounts of humans and destroy the earth with radiation. Also, kind of funny that Bret says what God should or should not say....as if he is superior to God himself.

[@sunbro6998]

If you don't believe in anything greater than yourself, you automatically bump yourself to the top.

[@MadFrenzy582]

@PoeticalGore XDDDD

[@corettaha7855]

That’s exactly the whole nature of believing God doesn’t exist. The more someone says it’s not, the guiltier they are believing their judgment superior.

[@mr8282humble]

How bout the fact that the sons of Cain in the book of Genesis are shown to be the fathers of the world's technological orders?

[@JonathanPageau]

Christianity is in a way a restoration, rectification of Cain. That is one of the reasons why Christ is the son of a carpenter.

[@Philibuster92]

Is there a symbolic pattern in reality that can predict the onset of enlightenment on the level of both the individual and of the collective?

[@acenull0]

LMAO I'm so glad you're a deep person 😂 i wish i had more friends like you this was light talk 😂

[@leedufour]

Thanks Jonathan.

[@Yelena504]

How does one preserve their integrity in the face of this encroaching ideological domination?

[@hymnsake]

I hope you do make a video on the number of the beast because I have never found a good explanation on why it also shows up in the TaNak: 1 Kings 10: 14 The weight of the gold that Solomon received yearly was _666_ talents, 2 Chronicles 9: 13 The weight of the gold that Solomon received yearly was _666_ talents,

[@joanarnold9773]

I've heard a pastor tell how the Jews of Jesus' day would know that Solomon is the man in the gospel who had acquired so much he was going to build bigger barns -- until God comes and says, "Today you are required to give an account of what your soul has been doing." Also, Jewish tradition says that Hebrew kings were all to copy out the Scripture by hand for themselves, and Solomon deliberately made an imperfect copy. He left out a jot or tittle that changed a ban forbidding marriage to foreign women into a word making it allowable. And that God took that deleted jot to heaven to preserve it, even if Solomon had left it out. Solomon's deliberate error is what Jesus is referring to when he talks about "not a jot or tittle shall not pass from the law." The Jews didn't think Solomon was going to be found among the saints in heaven, that he strayed further and further from God as he got older until he was no longer righteous at all. His many wives turned his heart away. He was the first to build an alter to Molech, the first to offer his child as a burnt sacrifice to the demon idol. Interesting to think someone who wrote multiple books of the Bible ended up turning his back on God, but given the content of Ecclesiastes, makes sense. So I think Solomon is an excellent figure to work as a type, a foreshadowing of what the final Antichrist will be like. And the 666 talents in the verse pointed out here indicates that.

[@redmikey24]

I've heard it this way. Could be wrong but this seems legit. Number 6 is the number for mankind (day of their creation) and also for incompleteness(7 is the number of completion, 7 days of creation). The number 3 is a number for perfection (God's number, the trinity). The number of man repeated 3 times (666) symbolizes the best mankind can do (man's perfect incompleteness or man's incomplete perfectness). This shouldn't be taken as a good thing but rather that no matter how much people try, they can never reach perfection except in their own minds and by their own standards. All of this being said 666 IS human perfection or better stated perfection by human standards (so it's really impressive). So 666 talents of gold a year is essentially all of the gold of the tribute paying peoples each year, which could also actually have been 666 talents by weight (symbols are created at the crossroads of tangible reality and intangible significance). The 666 In revelation could also be a number/word game that John used to call out Nero so as not to have his letter confiscated but the symbol still works. Hope this helps. I'm looking forward to seeing what Jonathan does with it and how far off I am lol.

[@MDchan]

Please do a video on the symbolism of six-six-six. I had some dreams, about zombies. I told this, but I haven't said that it had a continuation. So there was a deep murky lake, which you cross, find yourself in a clay mine. Then going ahead on the road, you turn left at the trains, encounter two prostitutes who were grown out of clay. They show you the way. Next you encounter senseless people, who are fixing the train and are trying to block you. The last of them will only threaten you infront of a small gate to the sunlit fields. I know this echoes the ancient Greek underworld and Hecate at the crossroads, but it is highly significant.

[@symbolicmeta1942]

Watch the Babylon anime

[@stephenpaccone8120]

This video was really good

[@timpeters9965]

The question implies there is something new under the sun.

[@stephenpaccone8120]

Echooo

[@philm1640]

"Make up and necromancy a how to guide by Lucifer" - Literary Nobel prize winner 4000 BC

[@thesheep91]

I know this is silly, but has anyone ever mentioned that c16 sounds very similar to 666?

[@aeiouaeiou100]

It literally doesn't?

[@Hitlerbaddaringood]

@@aeiouaeiou100bill Seeex Seex sTeeenx. Duhhh

[@TheGerogero]

What if angels and demons are positive and negative ETs

[@christophersnedeker2065]

Well basically the definition of angels and demons are intelligent beings other than man and surpassing him in power. Maybe.

[@stephenpaccone8120]

Clout

[@luc432]

Yes, please make a video on the symbolism of 666 so much superstition surround this number that people stray away from the original meaning.

[@joebanuelos5614]

Also why is 616 sonetimes used instead of 666

[@selviskk]

@@joebanuelos5614 Because that number stands for Nero, depending on if you de the numberology in hebrew or greek, it comes to either 666 or 616. The book of revelation is about the fall of jerusalem when rome destroyed it

[@pu3he]

I'm repeating myself but one doesn't have to read Book of Enoch in order to see the basic pattern of technology. I believe that the story of the tower of Babel can sufficiently explain that putting any technology in the place of God will overturn itself and and against the creators themselves.

[@pu3he]

Which is actually the basic human intuition that is hidden also in the Golem story or in Frankenstein for example.

[@stephenpaccone8120]

That sweater is suspect, but it's probably dope wool so I'll let it slide

[@Yelena504]

You verbalize everything I know to be true in my heart of hearts. Thank you. 🙏

[@SlavaU-ug7st]

Jonathan, watch "Stalker" by Andrei Tarkovsky (1979). It's about technology destroying Christianity and, finally, the world.

[@icopter]

I like how this so easily relates to God's warning for the Israelite army not to depend on chariots and horses, the greatest technology on the battle filed at the time, for there strength.

[@AnUtterMesh]

You don't even have to go for religious explaination to argue that AI systems created by man is bad. Simply put the moral systems that they are able to write into AI code are heavily dependant on the moral framework of the developer in question. So this immediately poses a problem as an autonomous system programmed contrary to normative moral reasoning can spell disaster for humanity. Hence the elevation of man over God or any other spiritual beacon we can point to as out overarching life guide.

[@ricerealtor980]

They say the devil is in the details could this also mean that specialization has a demonic aspect or Focus in that it can make someone lose interest in generalization or the big picture ie God

[@WatersAbove77]

The way I see it is that even if you don’t believe in God you ought to act like there is one...

[@chrisallos]

Hello Jonathan, when you say the offsprings of these fallen angels are responsible for technology?

[@AugustasKunc]

+

[@prodigy16ification]

Did you say that in the book of Enoch it says that the fallen angels teach women to paint their nails?

[@danieljdemarco]

Sleeper hit video of the year

[@famulan6594]

Mark of the beast! 666 lets go!

[@influencija]

amazing video, thank you

[@DiosanXaquerry]

Excellent analysis

[@MatthewJohnCrittenden]

Please do one on 668, The Neighbour Of The Beast.

[@AprendeMovimiento]

Why do you laugh like that while explaining something serious?

[@corettaha7855]

You gotta keep your sense of humor. Besides, if you ever notice most laughter is just from a sense of awkwardness, nervousness, or other things not directly funny.

[@ChristianTheChicken]

Chesterton has a chapter in his book "Heretics" dedicated to the complementary nature of humor in discussing serious topics. It's a good read if you can find the chance to pick it up.

[@badmancal2vmaxman]

thoughts on bitcoin?

[@cipriantepes]

It's still money, the power of control. It is written that nobody would be able to buy or sell but those who have the mark.

[@zachknox8462]

Ciprian Tepes the direction that Bitcoin is going in idk if there's much chance of it becoming the currency of this who bear the mark of the beast lol

[@anderaristondo1259]

You clearly don't understand Bitcoin. It is just the opposite.

[@cipriantepes]

@@anderaristondo1259 I really think there will be no economical solution if you don't get the mark. Everything seems too interconnected.

[@anderaristondo1259]

@@cipriantepes Bitcoin was built to be uncensorable, so I think it will be the money that people without the mark will be able to use. Digital fiat money, that many governments are trying to implement, is the money of the mark of the beast.

[@Xeronimo74]

Nonsense. You're really trying to find everything in Christianity in retrospect. Doesn't mean it's actually there.

[@jarlnicholl1478]

Yup. The fact that he is forced to go outside of the Bible and use Gnostic texts like the Book of Enoch speaks for itself. If it isnt inn the Bible, it isnt Christian, it is as simple as that.

[@eyezero962]

I actually agree. I don't see much use in this either. I think there is a lot of wisdom in religious texts, but no - they can't give us answers on contemporary problems and topics. The message of "modifying nature" is also something that existed tens of thousands of years before the bible was even written. Thats why we built tools, weapons, etc. Symbolic language is helpful for biological human beings. I agree with that. But it's not an answer, because everything around us changes and advances. We will hit a point in time where the world isn't led by biological humans anymore. Simply because we can't keep track with technology. I personally think we already see that in society today. Politicians are just super slow in their decision making... and not that efficient often either. Do you really think that the Bible or any other ancient religious text will be able to offer us answers on how to merge into a interplanetary society? (assuming we colonize Mars with several hundred million people in the future) What kind of currency and economic system do we want to apply to such a society even in our own solar system? The Bible has helpful and very good messages (and also horrible messages, just thinking of the murdered people in the old testament.) Brothers Grimm Books and Disney movies are helpful aswell. But all of that is man made and made up to several thousand years ago, while Disney Classics were made within the last 80 years or so (also coming from a dated world view and a totally different era actually). There is no chance these people could have answered questions that went beyond our understanding of the world (2000-6000 years ago). These kind of videos are more like "clinging to straws" though - and I personally am very interested in mythology, even before Jordan Peterson or Jonathan Pageau were known (just trying to say, I like the topic and these kind of videos in general). My opinion: Ancient Religions are dated, they were helpful for society and they always have something helpful for individuals, but I doubt that they will deliver any useful answers for the problems of the 21st century. As new questions and problems arise, we need new ways to think about these problems. Also Albert Einstein on that: "We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them."

[@landmatter]

@@eyezero962 You're not thinking in terms of principles. Principles are universal, they are the evergreen realities of life. To think they suddenly become "useless" or "insignificant" because we colonize Mars is false. The people of Mars don't operate differently than the people of Earth. You inductively build from principles to go about solving problems. The principle is an eternal tool to give you the ability to battle the constant of problems.

[@eyezero962]

@@landmatter Yeah, I don't think that these eternal principles are shaped/fleshed out enough to help us giving answers on how a society could and should look like when we find ways how to expand our lives for many more decades or even centuries. Families with 20 grandparents being hundreds of years old. I dont think these eternal principles will help us much in the question how to react to a superintelligence, especially if we would not leading the fate of the world anymore. So we just become transhumanists or cyborgs ourselves? How is that an answer? Ignoring all of this and just reading religious texts is no answer aswell. I think people should start looking at the 21st century at what it is and what it will lead to and then come back with symbolic texts and tell me a concrete answer on how to solve these upcoming problems. There are many of them, I only mentioned two.

[@eyezero962]

​@@landmatter And by the way: We can apply science to come up with ways to solve problems that lie ahead of us. I agree that these universal principles described in religious and mythological texts (not even focussing on the bible only) are helpful to apply them in daily life or @ human interaction. But if you think they can solve everything, you should be able to concretely tell me how you want to setup a multiplanetary society (or the other two scenarios in my other post) by just quoting symbols and analogies of the bible. And that's where we disagree simply. I don't think that these books have anything useful to offer in that regard. No matter how close we look and how long we discuss their "real meaning".