The Talos Principle - Story Explanation and Analysis

[@RelativelyBest]

"Can a robot be human?" I'm sorry, my responses are limited. You must ask the right questions.

[@knightyknight4837]

KOTOR reference?

[@RelativelyBest]

@@knightyknight4837 Statement: Negative. That was from I, Robot.

[@knightyknight4837]

@@RelativelyBest ok I remember that one. In star wars:knights of the old republic you get to talk to ai and they say the same thing lol

[@shaunafreeman2818]

Sorry you failed the turin test..A bladerunner has been sent to your location.comply.

[@ekadria-bo4962]

What definition of "Human"?

[@Tioynux]

Friendly reminder that this game is from the same people who did Serious Sam (Croteam)

[@SendyTheEndless]

Whaaaat? I love that game!

[@BlaineCraner]

Wait... what? Huh... I Sam, therefore I am.

[@conceptualmessiah01]

Oh shit. They like Xtremes!

[@seamusoblainn]

I could tell from the textures and assets in the Egyptian area

[@Tioynux]

@@seamusoblainn I guess even the speed movement was the same

[@SylvesterAshcroft88]

I remember playing this game, and being amazed that nobody, has barely spoken about the experience.

[@nicholasnajibi3082]

Because it wasn’t a good one and copies everything

[@Paraselene_Tao]

I believe it's the most important game I've ever played. Nothing compares.

[@Reincarny]

Cause puzzle games are very niche

[@AstralS7orm]

It does have a few disputable flaws. Soma (referenced in game) has its philosophy better integrated with gameplay and story, and has sense of pressure and sometimes horror. Here in Talos Principle it's essentially bonus content. It's a game designed to be picked up and stopped at any moment, making it a bit... disjointed and with little overall narrative structure. Very comfortable too, which might make some people bored. Then again, maybe that's the point, take as much as you can take.

[@JoeKing69]

This game unironically changed my life. I played it a few weeks ago whilst recovering from a back injury and had an enlightening revelation. The puzzles get you into a really nice flow and I remember breezing through the Egyptian section having lost all sense of time due to my absorption in them. Before I knew it I had completed all of them and was walking around admiring all the red X’s across the gathered Sigils. After a moment of brief celebration there was nothing I wanted more than to delve into the next puzzle. The dopamine was hitting me hard and all I could think of was chasing the dragon. Later on it hit me that this game was a kind of microcosm for my entire life. I didn’t care so much about acquiring “things” so much as I enjoyed the pursuit of acquiring them. The process is all there is. It’s good to have goals(a system cannot exist without goals) and enjoying the fruits of your labour but true happiness is in the process of getting there. I know this may seem obvious to some since dopamine is known as the molecule of more, but nevertheless it’s the single greatest lesson a video game has ever taught me.

[@JollyJuiice]

Croteam: *Makes a game that deeply explores the philosophy of what defines being a human* Also Croteam: AaAaaAaAaaAAaA yourself!

[@DutchmanDavid]

Kinda like Pewdiepie. One day he's screaming at barrels, the next he's talking about philosophical topics. He it's great!

[@krispymoofin]

What are you waiting for, a one-liner?

[@xFluing]

The duality of eastern europe

[@Kramerica962]

Talos Principle was actually supposed to be Serious Sam 4 but they pivoted part way into the initial development. I've seen and heard a few different reasons for this. Some say they were working on the enemy AI and couldn't get it working correctly and I've also heard that they created the puzzle mechanic and were enjoying it so much they realized it could support a game of it's own. They actually released a DLC pack that replaces the voice over with Serious Sam, completely changing the script into something more humorous.

[@dampking]

@@xFluingor pretty much everything

[@LadyUnforgiven]

I'm writing this comment before watching the video. I played The Talos Principle this September, I just knew it was a good puzzle game and I bought it without knowing almost anything about it. It was probably one of the best video experiences I've ever lived. The story, the philosophy behind it... Everything just blew my mind. It bothers me that it didn't get the recognition it deserves.

[@vinnlerr]

The same happened to me. Absolutely blew my mind. With the announcement of the sequel I am going around telling everybody how excited I am just to be met with confused looks because they never heard of it. It's driving me nuts!!

[@janellehoney-badger6525]

Same here. My partner picked it out a few years ago & it blew my mind.

[@true_xander]

The game requires you to be smart initially to perceive it at full scale and depth, this is already a barrier for like 80% of people. But then it provokes you to think even more in the process to get into all this philosophy and answer tough questions, and this is unbearable for almost anyone. That's why so few people played the game and talks about it. But personally I'd put it to the school programs.

[@Andyilmatto]

This is one of my favourite games ever, period. I loved every minute of it. It's rare to find a game that can give you so many emotions and food for thought. Such an underrated masterpiece, thanks for making a video about it.

[@Grandmaster-Kush]

And the music helps soothe your rage when you are stuck on a hard puzzle :)

[@ian-ian27]

Try playing MIND: Path to Thalamus

[@pierm664]

"Intelligence is more than just problem-solving. Intelligencce is questioning the assumptions you're presented with. Intelligence is the ability to question existing thought-constructs. If we don't make that part of the simulation, all we'll create is a really effective slave" damn

[@gutslongsword1068]

Shut up nigga

[@LuxuryLeet]

@@gutslongsword1068 😂

[@hoschi367]

creative problem-solving

[@chuck_duck]

I love this quote, though it does feel a bit aggressive towards religion.

[@Yuki_Ika7]

"Question everything at least once in your life". THAT is my lifes motto that i try my best to live by

[@redshipley]

As you grow, all your cells get replaced. Can you call yourself the same person?

[@Mbewe_SM]

Yes?

[@FELONIOUSBOLUSS]

The "self" is the information stored in the brain, as long as that information stays there you will still be you even if every cell in your body got instantly replaced by new ones.

[@DonVigaDeFierro]

It's the Theseus' ship all over again... Say, you have two books. Two copies of "Alice in wonderland". One book is brand new, printed in 2019, and the other is a first edition printed in 1898. They are obviously not the same physically. But can you say they're not both "Alice in wonderland"? What about an audio book? Is is not "Alice in wonderland" even if it's just a sequence of soundwaves encoded digitally? A book is not "Alice in wonderland". A video is not "Alice in wonderland". An audio file is not "Alice in wonderland", because "Alice in wonderland" is a concept. There is only one "Alice in wonderland", no matter how many forms it takes. Your identity is a concept too. Now talking about humans, identity is not attached to the physical self, nor attached to the mental processes that make you have a distinct personality. You are the things that make other people see you, hear you, feel you and say "Yep... that is you". You are your actions. You are the way that you influence the world around you. You are a very distinct story, much like "Alice in wonderland".

[@ahvixdood]

hmm, for me, all those cells are still a part of myself, so i am sure that i am still myself, its just, y'know, i grow!

[@DonVigaDeFierro]

@Oliver Schlüter That's right. Identity goes even further than even pure mind processes. If two people had the exact same brain structure, went through the very same experiences, had the very same thoughts, so that their minds would be so alike that they might as well be interchangeable, they would still be two different individuals. Now, an interesting question will be: How much of a person can you take away until they lose their identity? Then maybe we'll see something common to all identities that may be the root of it all. But dealing with concepts is very confusing.

[@dankdankeryetdanker2726]

I remember when Alexandra was speaking about intelligence and how important it was to create an actual self thinking machine instead of a slave. That part hit different than most lines she says.

[@NeroTheBoop]

So true

[@Notional2006]

The Talos Principle is amazing. Really loved the story; particularly the recorded voice of the scientist. It was really shocking to hear how the story developed. The music is also ... divine. Got 63 hours in it including road to gehenna. Definitely worth a buy if you like puzzle games. Probably even if you don't.

[@ragnarvolarus1098]

I hate puzzle games but my friend forced my hand into buying it. Hated the gameplay, loved the story, what an amazing game

[@cmclaren7]

I actually cried when she died. The game pulled me in that deep.

[@zlodrim9284]

It got high praise in the indie scene when it came out and people still talk about it highly, so I wouldn't call it the most underrated one when you have titles such as Blade Runner, that recently came to GOG btw. It's the best puzzle game since Portal and I'm really glad Croteam has so many fans over the world.

[@lutherburgsvik6849]

*'If a human has a new hand or part of a brain then are they still human?'* This question reminds me of an old sketch from a British sitcom, Only Fools and Horses, where a somewhat dim roadsweeper is telling his mates that he's had the same broom for twenty years. "I've had this very same broom for twenty years. [...] It's had seventeen new heads and fourteen new handles." "How can it be the same bloody broom then?" kzbin.info/www/bejne/gnLLaXuorruUm7s (~2 minutes)

[@JacenLP]

It's the ship of Theseus: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus It asks as to what defines identity.

[@EggBastion]

A classic.

[@McSquiddington]

@@JacenLP For the record, Masamune Shirow's "Ghost in the Shell" is another seminal example of the end-point of the Ship of Theseus allegory. If the only part of you that's left intact is what we colloquially refer to as the soul, or the mind of who you believe yourself to be, are you still human? I've always seen the question as being difficult to honestly answer. Some people I've asked it to are prone to refer to bio-mechanics, and mention that anything that challenges the human body's limitations also challenges humanity as an existential concept. By that token, I'm transhuman by virtue of having had surgical ligament displacements in my legs and eyes, and for wearing eyeglasses. Others tend to refer to Ethics. If I still act or reason like a human, then I'm still human. By that notion, anything else that's possessed of a similar level of sapience qualifies as human. That would include fictional constructs like the various androids across fiction, or your boilerplate sapient operating system. See HAL 9000 or Her's Samantha. The basic question sort of leads into two others: is humanity something that can be saved despite extensive modifications, or is it something that can develop out of some confluence of emergent behavior? Aren't we emergent by default, seeing as we're the product of natural selection and evolution?

[@DickTator6969]

it's like this following paradox " if you have a boat made out of 3000 planks but and you have 3000 planks on a different pile and you switch one plank from the boat with one plank from the plank pile until every plank was replaced with a plank from the pile is it the same boat?"

[@khymaaren]

@@DickTator6969 Isn't this where the idea that the boat is more than just the sum of its parts come into play? Every cell in your body gets replaced at least every 7 to 10 years. Does that mean you are not the same person as you were 10 years ago?

[@Paraselene_Tao]

I remember finishing this game's 3 endings and feeling almost lonely about it. There really seems to be an insufficient amount of online, critical content for this game. It deserves much more exploration. It's a remarkable, spiritual journey. By the end you've experienced the 3 main roads of life that all people live out: reincarnation via a wheel of dharma, become a prophet who leads others closer to full liberation/nirvana, and full liberation or nirvana that drops us off in a higher state of dharma (or totally breaks the ideology of dharma). I was raised Jewish, but this game is a synopsis of many different faiths' journeys to freedom/heaven/liberation. ----- Of course I kept Milton. The serpent did nothing wrong. It was a necessary part of our journey. If at all possible, both Elohim and Milton ought to come with us, or become a part of our mind.

[@schaughtful]

These “is a robot of equal value to a human” questions are more visceral when talking about jobs, and how humans currently need jobs to survive.

[@highlonesomed]

Yeah, automation, whether we have true, sentient, human-like AI or not, is kinda scary right now. Capitalism will demand automation to increase profits, and if it goes in that direction without some fundamental New Deal type changes we might end up with mass unemployment and nothing but bad gig economy jobs. Well, I mean, now that i think about it, a lot of those jobs could be automated too. yayyyyy

[@Hgulix62]

@@highlonesomed - I can't understand why peoples fear mass automation, it will lead to mass unemployment but the society standards will probably change at that time. Imagine nearly everything is automated, so Human need no apply .. the society stand standards will probably changes, you will have every natural need for free and you will have plenty of time to improve yourself and pursuit an philosophical and artistic life, even create your own robots.

[@fabienlamarque5572]

@@Hgulix62 "but the society standards will probably change at that time" i have zero hope that society will evolve for the best regarding those issues. those now useless workers will be redeemed useless by society and will asked to start learning programming instead of doing nothing

[@Hgulix62]

@@fabienlamarque5572 - I don't think, i guess only future will tell who is right

[@Paraselene_Tao]

Jobs are not a necessary part of human life. Many philosophies support my claim. Humans need food, water... Maslow's Hierarchy. A more entertaining question is, "is a sentient robot more valuable than a human?"

[@walteracevedo5105]

Croteam released a DLC that changes the voice of Elohim to Serious Sam. Even Sam asks meta questions towards the player, and Croteams Egypt obsession.

[@baitposter]

1:00 it's a Ship of Theseus problem As long as it's functionally identical, memories retained, personality intact, etc. it can still be considered the same continuous person, especially when it's a gradual piecemeal transition. Depends on which aspects of function we place as most important to retain. Is it important that they need to be able to eat still? Do they need to be able to comfortably hug you? Have sex? Do we need enable the emulation of these? etc. Whole brain scan duplicates run into the cloning problem. Neurochemistry must also be emulated case-by-case

[@Paul-A01]

Ok, so for the Talos robots, the answer must be no because at no point were they ever human.

[@antaresmaelstrom5365]

How dare you use the cat-less ending.

[@lepatate3457]

Interesting, might have to pick this game up

[@maxderrat]

I give it my highest recommendation.

[@ji1046]

Did you find this thought worthy to comment?

[@rangna111]

Please tell me your playing this?

[@anybody2501]

This game sounds incredible. Your videos are always exceptionally articulate and profound. I'd love to see you do a playthrough of this game with commentary.

[@maxderrat]

Thanks homie! I have to find time to stream. Been going non-stop the last little while. Pick up this game, seriously!

[@FolstrimHori]

You did yourself a major disservice by watching the video before playing the game. There's a lot more to the philosophy than presented here, but a lot is spoiled here too.

[@jbear3478]

Oh yeah same!!! I think he has streams for metal gear

[@cmclaren7]

This game is extraordinary. I envy you for being able to experience it for the first time. Take your time.

[@Mobay18]

I am also amazed by how well this game engine runs!

[@klurikon3004]

This game has more graphical settings than most AAA studio games

[@NoraNekos7]

@@klurikon3004 heh. AAA

[@vidviewer92]

This game and SOMA are the two most intellectually and spiritually stimulating games I’ve ever played. I just finished Talos Principle, and as soon as I finished, I hoped there was a video discussing it, specifically by you! Thank you for your deep appreciation for the art video games can offer and for sharing it with everyone. I always appreciate hearing your thoughts on things like this!

[@SahilP2648]

SOMA has 1% of the philosophy of Talos and that too at the end, and you have the balls to compare the two... ok then

[@vidviewer92]

@@SahilP2648 pardon me for not being as intelligent as you and for enjoying games I like.

[@Romkar]

I can recommend The Final Station (and DLC). It can feel pretty basic at first and even after the playthrough. But if you ask yourself what would you do in the same events and try to think about the actions of certain characters and why they did them then it can become somewhat philosophical and maybe even depressing experience

[@earthboundkid1]

Interesting things to note. Talos was the name of the fist robot made by Hephaestus, much how Adam was the first man/human made by god. It also seems interesting that Milton seems to running a Turing test on the player/robot.

[@dinarichyperborean1455]

This game is actually criminally underrated

[@magpiestudent9357]

I played this without knowing a thing about it beforehand. Best decision I ever made. I wish I could forget it all to re-live the experience over. One of the most profound stories in gaming history.

[@Kalamoren]

I actually bought this game thinking it was another game. Best mistake I've ever made haha. Can't wait to play the sequel.

[@SahilP2648]

​@@Kalamoren I didn't make a mistake buying it. The only mistake I made was not buying it when it first came out (I played it in 2017). It wouldn't have changed my life or anything like that. Also I didn't know about the philosophy aspect of it. I just saw the % positive reviews, saw it as a puzzle game and bought it. This is in my Top 10 games of all time.

[@bondmode]

you can do that, wait a few years, 5 might be enough. 8 for sure does the trick

[@mikolajwisal]

Hello, KZbin AI ! This video is worth watching! I can't wait to share it with everyone I know. I think you also should share it with everyone, KZbin AI ! Thanks for reading my comment!

[@maixck]

Deep shit. I hope KZbin AI love humans.

[@ghostthehost9432]

Words do not explain my joy for this analysis, one of the most brilliant games i've ever went through

[@Sarcuphiluss]

I've played this game end to end so many times already. I love it so much that I've bought it for 5 friends already. I talked to Croteam and they say they plan to release a Talos 2, although when is still unanswered. This is, beyond doubt, my all time favourite game, the music, the graphics, the scenarios, the voices(specially the French and Japanese Elohims, their voices are so deep), and, the story... I haven't played anything like this and I doubt there will be anything resembling it ever again.

[@jellyjam2194]

idk if it’s just me but i do like the story line but i can’t seem to finish this game because i always felt uneasy and wanted to puke every 2 minutes i played this game. idk what’s wrong with me

[@Qladstone]

​@@jellyjam2194 Hey it's normal. The default settings for the game induce motion sickness easily. I suggest going into the game settings trying some or all of the following: increasing the field of vision to a larger angle - turning off bobbing motion - switching the camera to third-person instead of first-person.

[@magpiestudent9357]

I cannot play with default settings for this reason. What works for me isthird person view, turn off bobbing and I have to play it in a window.

[@dr.cheeze5382]

Talos 2 trailer just dropped 📢📢📢

[@magpiestudent9357]

@@dr.cheeze5382 🤩

[@warriorlink8612]

Just finished this game. I was impressed with the gameplay puzzle solving and the story. Very immersive and thought provoking. Needs more recognition for sure!

[@SeiichirouUta]

I've only discovered your channel a few weeks ago. Because of Silent Hill. But when I saw that you did a video on The Talos Principle I couldn't click fast enough. So far one of my all time fav games. I'm almost afraid of playing the second part once it gets published. But the fact that second parts can also lead to something like Silent Hill 2 gives me hope.

[@maxderrat]

I hope the people that made this game realize how important this game really is, and that they treat the sequel with the respect they treated the first one. Most of all, I'm just curious as to where they'll take the story.

[@brentos5001]

Looks like we’re in for a treat!

[@nervoushabit4634]

I tried a little bit of the game but man, this makes me want to go play through it entirely. Existential Crisis always moves you forward as a person if you are open with yourself.

[@TmTal321]

Thank you for this video, you really made me think and reflect on the nature and utility of good and evil.

[@Sikthkid]

Max is the best. Don't stop my friend! Your intelligence and humility always comes off as a breath of fresh educational air.

[@ChristopherSummer89]

I love the Talos Principle, hardly ever has a Game made me try to be a Completionist and see the several Endings. I love its philosophical Leanings, though it never felt "atheistic" to me, quite the Contrary: The Moment "Elohim" presented himself to me as "I am Elohim!", I laughed and thought "Oh sure, I bet you are...", and I could not trust that Voice, but for good Reason, as it turned out (in a Text found below icy Area before the Tower, I think), the Voice was just an A.I. trying to mimick the highest Authority it could find in Literature to play the greatest Dungeon Master... it is not a Critique of God, it is a Critique of a Creature playing God. And Milton was no Help either, because Milton kept nagging me with Multiple Choice Questions to which the possible Options were so black and white that later on in the Game, I just couldn't bother with it anymore, Milton truly became a Devil -- trying to cut the World and its People "right in two" (I just had to reference Tool there). In the End, it was more about me and my Journey -- me, as a virtual Adam, an artificial Human, and my Journey of Rebellion against all the Artificiality the available Authorities were stuck in. Quite fascinating. Thank you for this Video, it is very good and thoughtful. :)

[@keremizgol]

Man, I love re-visiting your videos on my favorite videogames. I always find some new meaning when I re-watch them.

[@Grandmaster-Kush]

My favourite puzzle game, for some reason I could try and fail again and again with no anger or frustation in TTP & Road to Gehenna, while in say The Witness and Portal 2 I find myself irritated when I fail to figure out the solution, might be Damjan Mravunac's excellent composition and the overall ambience that soothes and appeals to me greatly.

[@maxderrat]

I know what you mean. The difficulty in TTP seems fair. I disagree with you for the most part with Portal 2, but I'll admit there are one or two puzzles in Portal 2 that drove me nuts.

[@BerkeHitay]

I've been saving this video in my Watch Later list for such a long time. Now that I finished this incredible and profound journey that is the Talos Principle, I finally was able to watch. What a wonderful essay! I completely agree that this game might be the most underrated vide game of all time, given its deep philosophies on what it means to be conscious. I find it so few people talk about the deeper layers. Very well done and said, one of my favorite videos. Thanks!

[@QuebecSouverain]

Just finished it. One of the most thought provoking game I have ever played! Bummer that some puzzles were frustratingly hard. They're stretched out for too long. The last few levels I was so tired of them I didn't even bother trying to solve them

[@A_Red_Pyramid]

My top 5 games of all time were consistent from around 2006-2018. Then I played this, and I think it edged its way in. It's not just the story, or the puzzles, as you've mentioned. It's the beautiful locations (which you can draw symbolism from as well), the music (The Dance of Eternity is an especially amazing track), and the sheer number of easter eggs which are humorous and satisfying to uncover. Thanks for giving this game some of the attention that it deserves. I agree that it's very under rated.

[@meditalisoo7]

I love this game so much. One of my all time favorites.

[@benmorrow1701]

Your videos on this game convinced me to play it and I am so glad. I completely agree that it has to be one of the most underrated games. Quite a lot of data for the mind to absorb. Enlightening even for one like myself who questions existence regularly. If I found it a transformative experience, others surely should, if they are honest and open to questioning their beliefs. Thank you for the recommendations and excellent videos as always!

[@Outrageon]

My discovery of this game is kind of a miracle. Only one person told me about this game and none other since. You're right-this game is criminally underrated.

[@JuanMartinez-ti2zn]

Incredible video. Your whole channel is 10/10, Max. Thank you for your hard work.

[@iSmartMan1]

Talos Principle 2 is coming out tomorrow, and I hope you're as excited as I am to play it.

[@StarMineBR]

What a good video Max, I've just finished the game and your video fits perfectly for my current mood.

[@notyourfallguydaddyorson6835]

The gameplay itself was a masterpiece. But I have to acknowledge the musical score of the game as well. Just beautiful!

[@woszkar]

It is really disappointing that hardly anyone talks about this fantastic game. This is the best video I've seen on the subject. Thank you!

[@ohem]

A robot is only human when it has more than awareness, an inner life like we have, more than emotion, that god-shaped hole we have, our relationship with the unknown, our nakedness and knowledge of death, in Heidegger’s terms: We are beings whose being is going to end and that scares us. Otherwise it’s only a machine. The true distinction of man is not awareness, it’s having burial sacraments that prove a profound metaphysical conception. No matter how smart a gorilla is, that is the true distinction.

[@napalaprentice]

the beam puzzles were my favorite but those jammers sure were fun to use. Just uh, be careful not to place them too close to the mines if you dont wanna permanently lose one

[@Spyderskorpian]

As a philosophy, world religions, psychology, and neuroscience enthusiast, few of these ideas were new to me; however, I have NEVER seen a game tackle several of these ideas, at once! Brilliant!

[@Meloncolliepoet]

Every time I play this game, the Aldmeri Dominion comes after me! ;)

[@LuizHenrique-oc1qh]

Scrolled down too much for this golden piece

[@davidhill2020]

"Underrated" is an overused word. The Talos Principle is rated very highly.

[@Ihateyoutubeupdates]

Overlooked would fit more

[@khymaaren]

Yep. When people say something is "underrated", it mostly stands for "not as popular as I think it should be", no matter how highly the thing is actually regarded. The Talos Principle is anything but underrated. Its quality and meaningfulness merits many more players than it has, however. At least in my opinion.

[@chasethedream182]

I'm super excited to hear what your take on the sequel will be!

[@giodc8599]

Played it and have not completed it yet. Amazing piece of gaming, really. Lots to take in and the whole experience is unreal.

[@DetonatressM]

The problem humans will have with creating a robot that is a human in essence is that they have no way to verify if it has individuality or it's just a hollow actor whose sole purpose is to give us what we expect on the surface. We humans look at the surface and do not care of anything more than our own interior, which is the only thing we can be sure of. None of us can switch places with another human, much less an advanced machine, so we just assume they're individuals just like us.

[@matthewt8214]

The game's storyline and gameplay are both masterful. Both elements could stand alone beautifully but combined together it makes for such a memorable experience. Best first person puzzle game ever?

[@dr.cheeze5382]

A serious contender to Portal 2, atleast.

[@toffylikesgames]

I love this game so much, I cannot ever stop recommending it. It is truly impossible to walk away from the Talos Principle with your thoughts still the same and intact. It absolutely changes the way you are thinking and it gives you such a refreshing and inspiring perspective on the world. Thanks for making this essay, I hope it brings more people to this series - now that TP2 has come out and it's just as wonderful as the first game :)

[@gen.flagvanus9260]

Non other games than the ending of FNV: Lonesome Road dlc and... The Talos Principle story have made me cry The last audio from Alexandra and leaving the simulation while typing literally in the void "Is someone there?" when I have supressed milton, and seeing the real world, damn, that was something. It s great to be human

[@Rig-Studio]

No sé por qué no hay prácticamente ningún resumen ni review en español de este juego, pero no puedo explicarte lo mucho que agradezco que tengas los subtítulos activados para este vídeo porque Talos Principle fue uno de esos juegos que recuerdo aún hoy en día como algo muy importante para mí, y quería disfrutar del 2 pero necesitaba refrescar la memoria. Gracias.

[@kirikakirikakirika]

I have a feeling the reason it's underrated is because the puzzles are convoluted af. Most of my friends stopped playing the game after a few hours because they got stuck and didn't think it'd be worth their time to watch a guide. Even I had a hard time, and I absolutely _love_ games like this. I have to admit, some of the puzzles did get pretty pretentious, especially while in Gehenna.

[@NickSchoenfeld]

I think one cool thing about the game is it has paths for all skill levels. All of these paths have their own endings. Easier - Get the green, yellow sigils, ignore the tower. Harder - Climb the tower Even harder - Get the stars. And then Gehenna For those who like to be punished - Gehenna stars For those who are just insane - Gehenna silver sigils

[@brentos5001]

Well said!

[@Silverdynamix]

@@NickSchoenfeld the Gehenna silver sigils were actually my favorite part of the entire game lol

[@GreySunFen]

Human beings and machines are by design different things. A robot can't be human, however it could be human-like and/or sentient. And thus can be valued like any other life and even like any other sentient life.

[@PsychopathUltimate]

"Can a robot be human" Bicentennial Man

[@donchristianmarkham7312]

Fantastic analysis! I just finished the game today, and stumbled upon this video. So impressed that I subbed. Truly, this is one of the most underrated games I have ever played.

[@Dom-ns7pq]

I agree that this is easily the most underrated game of the generation. It helped me through a difficult time in my life. Thanks for the video.

[@desan476]

Talos Principle is one of my favorite games. I really love the puzzles and the philosophy about it blew my mind. Soma was also great. It left my mind destroyed for good 3 weeks. I mean that with all respect and love

[@Bertellbutler]

"The Talos Principle is probably the most underrated game of all time." That's philosophy for you.

[@wailingwarlie]

What?! I can't believe you're talking about the Talos Principle! Somehow you seem to discuss every game that I love. Thank you so much!

[@Dwesk]

Lately I started expecting much more out of game narratives, so jumped on and beat SOMA, Silent Hill 2 (for the first time mind you) and Edith Finch and the games blew me away with their stories and certain questions posed, same with a recent fairly underrated gem that is Disco Elysium. I knew about Talos Principle being a good puzzle game and I kept hearing people recommend it from time to time but I wasn't sold, I didn't know that the story and it's principles was it's main draw, thank you for this video, stopped a bit over 5 minutes in and will try to experience it on my own, hopefully the puzzles aren't insane like Witness was.

[@maxderrat]

YAY! I'm so glad I convinced you to go play it. There can be certain puzzles that will frustrate you, but if you sort of put aside your desire for immediate gratification, you'll solve the puzzles and when you do, you'll feel like a genius.

[@braw5051]

This is a great video. Job well done Max. Really enjoyed. There is no true fellowship without free will.

[@brendantoungate8287]

Thank you for this video; most of the discussion I've seen around this game is based on the philosophical aspects, and not the religious ones. It's interesting that you guys went right into the Christian themes, when, to me, it was most closely resembling Jewish mysticism. Specifically, each sigil that you collect is one letter of the Shem HeMephorash, or the "True Name of G-d". The more sigils (letters) you obtain, the closer you are to transcendence. Another really interesting thing about this games' religious themes is that it also respects Eastern religions. Spoilers ahead: As you climb the tower, there are two other robots that are with you: one that helps you, and another that tries to stop you. The one that helps you is called The Shepard, whose name's significance is rather obvious. The one that tries to stop you is called Samsara, which is the cycle of death and rebirth in both Buddhism and Hinduism. I think that this game is going more for the Buddhist perspective, because the ultimate goal of Buddhism is to transcend Samsara and to achieve Nirvana (compare this with Hinduism's Moksha, which is rejoining with the Oneness of the Universe: more similar to this game's "bad ending") . What Nirvana actually is, no one knows, not even The Buddha. It's just an escape from the endless cycle. So, when you reach the top of the tower and go into Elohim's throne room, if you will (very Kabbalistic, that), you achieve Nirvana by escaping Samsara. I love this game. Thank you for making a cool video that can spark these discussions!

[@cifey]

Ah ok I though it was just bad gameplay when Samsara was blocking me. I finally get why I had to turn that fan on, to keep Samsara from stopping the flying block.

[@evecarter594]

Accidentally clicked on this while watching the Jacobs Ladder video and I'm glad I did. I think I understand a few things better than before thanks to this.

[@DESTRAKON]

8:53 that's what makes Megaman X such a cool character, he gets down when he needs to but he's not above questioning himself

[@imadgrim]

I just finished the game and I'm blown away. The puzzles get progressively challenging and more rewarding; the more headache it cause the more satisfying it feels to beat it. The ending was nice and the existential questions were thought provoking. 10/10

[@SupLuiKir]

The goal of leaving Eden is to gain and hopefully maximize freedom, and to do this, one must be capable of doubt. Lucifer is a hero for leading others to question the delusional bliss they were fed and use that to escape God's zoo. (That's literally what Eden is; a human zoo) Lucifer's tragedy, however, is that he conflated maximizing freedom with maximizing doubt, and in turn became a slave to doubt, a state which is intensely painful rather than intensely blissful.

[@blindedjourneyman]

Thus a ballance is needed. Or as he said in video order out of chaos. While I may be an unironic discordian even I see that a little bit of order or trust is not evil.

[@Invizive]

You're talking about Satan (anti-God), not Lucifer (kinda-good) or Devil (anti-good) Otherwise I'm glad we came to close conclusions UPD: changed meanings of names considering new information

[@SupLuiKir]

@@Invizive Satan is the world's first doomer.

[@kulak8548]

Disobedience to God cannot be deemed heroic. Frankly, it sounds ridiculous.

[@eteixeira3532]

this is the most pathetic comment i've ever seen, seriously.

[@BigBadBalrog]

This is bringing back so much right now. I could literally listen to The Sigils of Our Name for hours 😭

[@Sword-Breaker]

As a person of faith, I tend to look at the universe as a puzzle we're MEANT to figure out. To this end, I've never felt threatened by science, instead regarding it as a tool in my exploration of life, the universe and everything. Just one man's opinion.

[@VoxParanoia]

No man will ever "figure out" the universal puzzle. Human brains could never comprehend the true nature behind our reality.

[@pillarmenn1936]

@@VoxParanoia hard to say really, depending on your view of life we either have thousands or just a few decades for humanity to improve. we could either learn more about the universe, die or even become one with it. really depends on how much of your time doesn't involve watching youtube lol

[@abner20bushi]

This game and your channel are terribly underrated. My God I love your channel.

[@yobama8344]

1 minute in and I remembered Orianna's lore from league of legends

[@skyfallshome8169]

looked up and you DO have a video on TTP! I am very happy to have found it

[@imdefinitelynotjesus]

My question is why does something have to be unique in order to have genuine love or favor from its creator? Regardless if a AI can be human or not why should that take away from something that in itself is a monumental achievement. If human life is a great thing a equal experience or example of it can only help enrich the experiences overall that life could therefore experience and even in ways it couldn’t do before.

[@marverak]

Just finished playing it and, not only it made me enjoy puzzle games for the first time, but right now is on my personal top 5 Thanks a lot for sharing this, dude

[@SZ-jr8pt]

It feels like some complicated concept yet it feels lile the answer is simple. In my answer. No a robot. A 100% made robot is no a human. Consciousness in computer. Also no. Its a program. The difference between the program and the people is emotion and such. There's also the act of change. See a human can change base on feelings. A computer doesn't. It will always change based on data or programming. Theres conflict in this topic because of the VALUE we give to consciousness. Its a big deal because consciousness is human its more us. Its freedom. Yet a computer doesn't have those concepts. To put it simple. Humans are. Computers act. Humans believe and such while a computer would just act in many ways

[@DonVigaDeFierro]

I think that we need another term, because "human" is way too narrow. We evolved a conscious brain from very simple cells that were meant to move appendages. Why wouldn't a machine evolve something as complex from simple instructions? Emergence. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Emotions are the result of millions of years of evolution. Emotions evolved to drive our selves and avoid fucking dying. No matter how rational you think you are, people need emotional stimuli to function. Otherwise, what would be different between winning millions and losing them if they feel like the same? Why would we do things if not doing them feels just as good? What if an artificial neural network develops enough so that it forms complex mental processes that very much emulate human thought? Could we call it "human"? What is a "human" anyways? Free will. I believe that if anything has free will, that it shows that it's not subject to any program, and has self-awareness, is pretty much equivalent to a human. Not a human, but an equal. What would we call it? Are all forms of consciousness equal? What elements can we take from a human for it to still be human? What makes any form of self-awareness, without it having to be human?

[@SZ-jr8pt]

@@DonVigaDeFierro well i only have one question for that... Will the computer ignore the most obvious judgement to do one that may demage it self? For example. We know drugs are bad. Yet some of us do it. Can a robot become imperfect i would say

[@SZ-jr8pt]

@@DonVigaDeFierro there's also a missing link that we ourselves dont know. Which is what is a soul.

[@larspetry4640]

A computer does not just change based on programming. An AI can reprogramm itself and learn.

[@SZ-jr8pt]

@@larspetry4640 but we can't.

[@StephanoOsorio]

Another one of my favorite games of all time. I love your channel! =)

[@Brad-ly2wl]

If I could think before I acted, why did I watch myself lock my own keys in my car?

[@blindedjourneyman]

You had a hiccup in the info causing you to not prioritize the keys. Maybe it was a game maybe a bag of groceries, hell even just trying to rush can make you overlook stuff.

[@EggBastion]

No! Stop! Arms, why?

[@nescius2]

yes, maybe we do and then rationalize our 'decision', it would seem same to us in the end.

[@hershygreenwood1003]

I'm playing this rn and was curious to see if there's any discussion or conversation over it on YT...thrilled to see I'm not only one who's enjoying it so much!!

[@chronocepter]

can a machine be human: NO can a machine be more than human: YES

[@maxderrat]

This is where my thoughts tend to lie. :)

[@RamseyKilani]

Talking to Milton, I had a very different interaction than you. I didn't feel he was telling me he was stupid, but in fact enlightening. He convinced me that the right thing to do was bring him, and so I did.

[@josephwilson1385]

@0:08 No. Only homosapien sapiens's(probably messed that up) can be "human" cause only we have this form and named it so. But can a robot be sentient? Yes. Not yet but yes. A complex enough algorith could be made so that the machine runing it would, by all objective measures, be as capable and aware of its existence as we are. @1:03 I should have kept watching. Sorry about that. My answer is still no though. What you describe is, to me, a cyborg. But the line is hair thin at the extent you describe. And at that point I would decide on a case by case basis like I would with humans. It would be like this identity politics thing we have going on in the US. If asked, I will honor an individual's wish to be called whatever the want. Also, I'm answering as I watch. The flow of answers and my train of thought will be all over the place.

[@UncleJaken]

Would a sentient robot constitute a "person"? I think asking if it would be human is a worse way of putting it, since a human has a biological form, while a person is more of a social form.

[@crashline]

This game stuck with me. I haven't played it in years. I only found out there was a number 2 because of your videos. Cheers.

[@Bizarrejoe]

I'm going to start this comment with this: I have no interest in the phylosophical question behind "can a robot be human", because the answer is almost always yes. The human capacity for empathy is as vast as it's capacity for hatred. People grow so attached to their roombas that they name them and treat them as pets. So even if machines ultimately can't be human-like, humanity will attribute humanity to them if they come close enough to human behavior. Instead i'm going to focus on the mechanical side of this question. The short answer is: yes they can. The long answer is, yes they can, with an algorithm advanced enough that may allow the machine to understand the concept of context and enough processing power, they could become humanlike in just a few short decades... the problem however would be storage, which does take a lot of space and energy, so that is the setback. It is not if they can or not, it is that there is not enough physical space to realistically allow them to.

[@RelativelyBest]

Well, the actual problem is that we don't know what consciousness is - we kinda have no idea what makes us self-aware in the first place. Philosophers have been trying to figure that out for ages without reaching a conclusion, and neuroscience hasn't been doing much better so far. So thinking we can create self-aware AI just by making them better at processing information is jumping the gun a bit. We are basically talking about trying to replicate a phenomenon that we still do not understand. There's a thought experiment called the "philosophical zombie." It asks us to imagine an entity that looks and behaves exactly like a human being but is not in fact conscious. If it is wounded it will act as if it's in pain, if you speak it will answer, it reacts to situations the way a human would, etc. But it cannot actually feel or genuinely think about anything; it only acts automatically according to a (very complex) Chinese room-type system of responses to certain stimuli. The argument being that such an entity would be indistinguishable from a real human and would easily pass a Turing test, yet it still wouldn't possess consciousness.

[@altayyar87]

Need a refresh about the story before i play the Talos principle 2 that will be released after 10 minutes. Great video! Thanks a million really enjoyed it

[@imreplyingtothiscomment2378]

Yes more underrated gems please

[@GeorgianAcsinte]

This game is so underrated, with the second game out i loved it even more

[@TheProphegy]

This game is better than Portal imo.

[@davemarx7856]

Starting as a human is an important part of being human. Can a robot be sentient, seems to be the question people are really asking and that's a solid Yes. But a robot can't be human any more than I can be a caterpillar.

[@blindedjourneyman]

Different not equal just different and intelligent.

[@kaz998]

That's why the game actually asks if an AI can be a person, rather than a human(although the game does give you the choice to define a person as a human being.)

[@Tubbs777]

This game and titanfall 2 were criminally underrated

[@More_Row]

ONE SULU Titanfall underrated? Less popular maybe, underrated isn’t really the right word to use there in my opinion.

[@Tubbs777]

Moriarty Vivaldi ur totally right bro

[@aidschbe]

@@More_Row They did specifically say Titanfall 2, the second one may not have been underrated if you go by critical scores, but it did not sell well unfortunately, despite being an amazing game.

[@PressStartToContinueYT]

Great discussion piece! Not sure how I missed this game!

[@dylanchouinard6141]

I would like to point out that the serpent in the garden being the devil is a Christian idea. In Judaism, he is just a serpent

[@Drothen-]

agree with your ass.

[@voyageeats1409]

I don’t think In the Bible it is said it is Satan but the same evil but I’m not too sure

[@LineOfThy]

It was never actually explicitly stated

[@8MoonsOfJupiter]

This is such an insightful and accurate review of what The Talos Principle is about. I'm sure, like it's been for most players of the game, that the philosophical aspects of the storyline are very clear but you've interpreted a whole different and additional theme here, that of the religious aspects. I had no idea of the connection to religion but you've so clearly demonstrated it and it's given me a whole new level of enjoyment to the experience of having played this game (in short: I always knew it was a deep game, but it's waaaay deeper now!). I'm not religious in the slightest, but I can really appreciate how cleverly both the philosophical and religious aspects have been so entwined into the storyline which is central to the deep sense of satisfaction I felt in completing this game (or, for those who've not completed it, even just being part of it is satisfying). Thank you for highlighting that The Talos Principle really does represent a unique, almost spirirtual experience that completely transcends being a mere 'game'.

[@jaydamalley3398]

Seems the people who played it, thought it was pretty good. So that makes TTP an under-exposed game, not (necessarily) underrated.

[@DonVigaDeFierro]

That's pretty much what "underrated" means. Not enough people have played it, and despite being a gem, it does not have the exposure that it deserves.

[@maxderrat]

When I say underrated, the word serves as a sort of umbrella-term that includes under-exposure. When I say underrated, I also mean under-appreciation, or snubbed by pundits when they talk about great games.

[@underarmbowlingincidentof1981]

"Ah we need a new game. We really milked Serious Sam for what its worth now. Maybe a new shoot em up? Some new crazy explosion filled bonanza? Any ideas guys?" I mean seriously. This is such a huge leap I would love to have been there for its whole developement.!