The Thief and The Cobbler - What Happened?

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Edited By: / guarascia
SkeleMatt Art By: / 2snacks
Intro By: / 2manysnacks and / littlevmills
Arabian Knight Remastered Trailer By: • Arabian Knight TV Spot...
Sources:
RogerEbert.com - The Story of Richard Williams and His Unfinished Fairy Tale, The Thief and the Cobbler - www.rogerebert...
Collider.com - The Thief and the Cobbler: The Greatest Animated Movie Never Made - collider.com/t...
Wikipedia - The Thief and The Cobbler - en.wikipedia.o...
Wikipedia - Richard Williams (animator) - en.wikipedia.o...)
Kevin Schreck - Persistence of Vision - • PERSISTENCE OF VISION ...
MUSIC:
Aladdin (SNES) - The Genie's Lamp
Shantae Half-Genie Hero - Uncle Mimic's Song
Donkey Kong Country 2 - Funky the Main Monkey
The Operative (No One Lives Forever) - BaDeDum (Med)
Wario Land Shake-It - Mt. Lava Lava 2
Bubsy in Fractured Furry Tales (Jaguar) - Bubsy and the Arabian Nights
Who Framed Roger Rabbit (NES) - Eddie and Roger
Who Framed Roger Rabbit (NES) - Ink and Paint Club
Duck Tales Remastered - African Mines
Street Fighter EX3 - Heat Wind (Dhalsim's Theme)
Aladdin (Windows 95) - Prince Al
The Lion King (Genesis) - Hakuna Matata
Arabian Nights (Amiga) - Ecran Titre
Gyakuten Kenji 2 - Reminiscence ~ The Fall of the House of Lang
The Thief and the Cobbler OST - The Golden City March

[@MattMcMuscles]

Arabian Knight Remastered Trailer By: kzbin.info/www/bejne/l4ureIpvg5yie80

[@TheEDFLegacy]

One thing you didn't mention, but something I've started to wonder as a result... was this movie the cause of the end of traditional animation? It almost sounds like it scared studios enough that when CGI came along (and was both highly successful _and_ cheaper in many ways), it encouraged its downfall?

[@edwardhoptrough9933]

@@TheEDFLegacy Almost like the Heavens Gate of animated films (speaking of, the next time Matt feels like a film 'What Happened?', Heavens Gate is an interesting tale).

[@dollenrm]

Thank you for pinning this, he's such a coward

[@rickmartinez3268]

Really this movie? Not “House of The Dead Movie”??

[@rickmartinez3268]

0:55 Question why do you always use the Simpsons in you’re videos almost all the time???

[@PuppetMasterIX]

In addition to his other achievements, Richard Williams also wrote a book called The Animator's Survival Kit. Published in 2001, it was and still is widely regarded as the animation industry's Bible.

[@ragingchaosgod]

Oh it really is. That and the accompanying dvd that has a whole lecture on Williams explaining and demonstrating everything in the book is GOLD. When I took animation in uni, we needed no other book but that.

[@spiralgodking9877]

Gigachad of the animation world. Bless his soul.👍👍👍

[@brycecartwright2403]

Been reading it recently to learn animation. That book is not only super helpful and insightful, but Williams writes it with so much charm and fun anecdotes that it’s just a fun read in addition to its animation help.

[@shahriarabdullah568]

I used to walk to work and back everyday with Richard while he was at Aardman. I was so upset when I found out he passed away, he was a really lovely guy.

[@zanethezaniest274]

The ending is oddly bittersweet, Williams finally had something to be proud of and could call his own work, it’s just a shame it took decades of hardship for him to finally achieve it at the tail end of his life.

[@PSVitaat2am]

I completely forgot that this even existed! 😱

[@stevenhay7147]

Life of a true artist

[@gavinrichards101]

@@stevenhay7147 remember about Morbius

[@t.k7five084]

@@gavinrichards101 doesn't count

[@gavinrichards101]

@@t.k7five084 then get ready for the thief and the cobbler!

[@OSW]

I see this as a cautionary tale to artists and creatives. Unwillingness to compromise left a life's work unfinished; critically and commercially panned. It saddens me when watching the Recobbled Cut: I don't marvel at the INCREDIBLE technical animation achievement, I see a self-sabotaging drive into obsession and madness. For a project meant for mass consumption - absolute perfection and how many frames per second pales in importance to characters, character design, dialogue, voice acting, tone and pacing. Imagine if he spent 3 years making this, he could've made TEN films in that original development time. He could've improved his techniques, become more efficient and created something that changed the industry, on his own terms. Happily before he passed he created a work he was fully-satisfied with, and we got to see what happens when Williams works within the constraints of other people's projects (Roger Rabbit) - a critical & commerical success that was hailed as changing the industry...and he received an Academy Award for his efforts. Thanks for covering this Matt! 💚

[@Amy-yq4lk]

I can't help but feel like he should have been creating animated shorts the whole time instead of trying to make movies at all. The plots and characters could be a lot more barebones (those little details like, uh, "Story" seems to have been a real issue), there wouldn't have to be a bunch of funding or other animators to deal with, and he could have retained a lot more of control. I'm not sure of the logistics that could have made that work, but considering what happened, it couldn't have been worse.

[@theodorecarter6601]

@@Amy-yq4lk that’s what Marcell Jankovics did in order to produce his masterpiece, The Tragedy of Man. He showed various segments of the movie as shorts in order to get by from 1988 to 2011, when the movie was finally released in its entirety.

[@Roboshi2007]

this is kind of similar to what I see in Metal gear solid 5, Kojima was BURNING money on that game, and in the end it didn't get the ending it was meant to have. Maybe if we didn't need horses that actually take a shit in real time or replacing our well loved voice actor with a hollywood actor doing his bare minimum. Hell if I poured hundreds of millions into kojima with MGS and saw another money pit with "silent hills" written next to it, I'd say "fuck it" and open a casino too.

[@kankeydong2500]

@@Roboshi2007 Actually, Kiefer was meant to talk more in the cutscenes. Hell, there's even a lot of Snake's dialogue cut from the game. But as you said, Kojima was burning money like the world's gonna end and being a perfectionist botched all of it.

[@Roboshi2007]

​@@aliasmcgames No matter what art you make you must always work in a budget. It would be wonderful if every artist got unlimited funds to make whatever art they wanted, but everything in life is limited. When you have a budget of any kind you must be mindful of it, throwing out months of work because you didn't like how your choices turned out is a mistake you can only make a very limited number of times. Hell even the most lavish movies will usually have less than 5 or 10 minutes of deleted content because every deleted scene is money lost. it's all very easy to blame "stuffy suits who wouldn't know art if it slapped them in the face", but next time it's YOUR money on the line, you will get far more demanding. Hell look at how people react to crowdfunding and kickstarter when they get a whiff of overspending on a project. So many arts manage to work in a budget, and being wasteful with your money rarely makes good art. it just makes expensive art. Just look at the story of Daikatana and star citizen.

[@Smieska_13]

I always think of him as cautionary tale about perfectionism. One thing I kinda wishes you mentioned was how he made The Animators Survival Kit, a book about how to animate and how it's the foundation of teaching animation - literally saw it in animation school as well as studios I worked in. It was a nice alternative to the overbearing Disney formula.

[@maugos]

It truly is sad isn't it, as much as I respect and sympathize Williams I also understand he totally stabbed himself in the back trying to make this the most perfect movie ever.

[@Kdkjdjewerdnxa]

One of the most tragic stories in animation. The animation that was finished is some of the best hand drawn animation in history.

[@ComicCrossing]

@@animezilla4486 Is that what you got from the story? Richard Williams was HIGHLY respected. Especially after Roger Rabbit. Most people would not have gotten half the leeway he did. But you cant just spend millions of other peoples dollars and not have anything to show for it after years. I understand that he was a perfectionist, but maybe he couldve actually gotten it done under WB if he hadnt fired hundreds of people during its production?

[@tafua_a]

@@animezilla4486 The problem wasn't the fact that he wasn't respected. It's the fact that his magnum opus was simply too large in scale. What he wanted to do was making a feature length movies 24 Mona Lisas per second. True, Dreamworks and Disney did him dirty, but he did himself no favors by working on a dream of such mammoth proportions.

[@tafua_a]

@@8Kazuja8 I feel like this was the kind of project that shouldn't be approached as a business venture, but purely as a work of art. This movie, like Shenmue in the world of gaming, is the kind of project that will never, ever make money even if it sells like gangbuster, simply because of how expensive it is to make.

[@tafua_a]

@@8Kazuja8 I didn't mean not paying the animators. I meant it in the way that, whoever paid the animators and all the budget stuff, you know, the business people giving them the money, has to do it knowing full well they'll never profit out of that. A lot of people, when they back these mammoth projects, then are shocked when they make no money out of them, because even when they sell, they will never sell enough to make a profit. The thing is, we need works of art like this, but we also need to understand that, from a commercial stand point, they will be failures.

[@emilysong2000]

If I'm not mistaken, The Thief and the Cobbler's thirty-year long period of being stuck in development hell makes it-I do believe-the project that has had the longest troubled production of any topic you have ever covered on What Happened!

[@thegreendragoninn8730]

Eat your heart out, Duke Nukem Forever.

[@DrazenTC]

​@@erainmartinez8175 What Happened is a show about anything with interesting production history not just games.

[@emilysong2000]

@@erainmartinez8175 Matt certainly has loads more video games to talk about in future episodes, but every so often, he opts to discuss the troubled production of various movies. This is one of those occasions.

[@Aquatarkus96]

@@DrazenTC Do you think he'll get to covering an album someday?

[@SeekerNami]

@@erainmartinez8175 he's covered movies and consoles before. It's a diverse show. The gaming industry has more than enough what happened worthy stories to be told and not just for bad games but also good ones

[@Elderahn]

As much of a tragedy this story is, it also somewhat underpins the notion that great art makes you bleed... and Williams was straight up disembowelling himself and anyone in reach to get this done. I will always cherish the recobbled cut, as I have watched it many times, but Williams brought the sword of Damocles above himself by the unrelenting absurd quality standard he held it to. That long panning shot above Baghdad with the camera shifting elevation being done in traditional style is like.. gorgeous.. but at the same time VERY much so an Icarus and the Sun moment.

[@KreuzDrache]

It is definitely a hard thing to balance when a project becomes a product, as tragic as it is.

[@PSVitaat2am]

I guess you do make some good points there. 🤔

[@jacklindsey8400]

Yea that's always been the point I cling to here, I feel sorry for him, but there comes a time when "good enough" is what you do, the pendulum swinging too far either way between the artist and the money men is bad, and it sounds like they did try to give him all the help they actually could before they kinda had to swoop in.

[@DavideGendo]

EDIT: I'm leaving the rest of the comment but after a little more searching I'm in fact glad Matt made no mentions because there is nothing certain. Ideas may have floated around but other videos tend to mount a conspiracy to kill TaC like it was the animated movie to make every other movie past and future obsolete, and not one that even finished and with such amazing animation, would have suffered a dated look and less than optimal pacing (the giant war machine scene, so pretty and so loooooooong). The moment they tell you it was Disney that put the deadline and not WB, you know they care only about the clickbait. --- I don't know if it's just rumors (reason why Matt hasn't mentioned it) or something that is proved to have happened, but several animators who were either fired by Williams or grew tired of how work was going on TaC and left, ended up in Disney bringing the general ideas of the movie there. And so Aladdin was born. Now, it may have happened regardless as there are some cases of corporations developing similar ideas concurrently, and also given how TaC ended up it mattered little in the end. However, it would be really tragic if Williams himself brought it upon himself, further proving that dedication to art is wonderful but there's always a point where you must say "let's wrap it up".

[@wilmagregg3131]

it shouldnt be a crime to reach for the sun but one also can not act suprised or angry when people began to call them mad for reaching for it to the point of self destruction but two sides of the same coin and all.

[@mr3urious]

Never thought I'd see this covered here, but it's much appreciated! As stubborn as Richard Williams was with budgets and deadlines, he didn't deserve his baby to get yanked from him like this. One thing you left out was 1977's Raggedy Ann & Andy, which was meant to be a smaller side project to help fund Thief, but Williams' insistence on high quality visuals caused its budget to skyrocket and eventually lead to it flopping in theaters.

[@KaminoKatie]

The 1977 Raggedy Ann and Andy film deserves a What Happened episode

[@ideitbawxproductions1880]

I remember hearing about that film from the Nostalgia Critic (long before the #ChangeTheChannel fiasco). It seemed so bizarre that I just *had to* watch it. I regret nothing

[@puke.1393]

That movie saw something of a resurgence in popularity recently through KZbin and TikTok. Glad it did, the art is great and it deserves the recognition

[@badatgamesguy5399]

Looks pretty tho.

[@KinaliBZP]

13:11 "They had two viable options; Sue Shakespeare..." I picked a hell of a moment to look away from the screen, because I briefly thought the story was taking an swerve into the most insane legal move of all time And hey, she was a producer on the Bionicle movies! That's one of the last crossovers I expected to see in this episode!

[@furrettheferret9562]

ah yes lets sue a 400 year old dead guy

[@marcusaureliusatoninus5947]

​@@furrettheferret9562I mean, if a pope can put a dead guy on trial

[@matthewhecht9257]

I knew her from the credits of An American Tail

[@nirvanalives23]

An important point that should not be ignored is that Williams made an incomplete cut for directives as his "last stand" to save the project in the 90s. Althought they said no, it is the closest cut that he made of how he imagined the project. Nowadays, The cut circulates officially in film festivals and special events with the name "The Thief and the Cobbler: a Moment in Time" and it can be consider the closer of a "definitive" version that we can have. It even entered to the Library of Congress with the support of Williams himself. I saw it myself some years ago. It is beautiful piece that connects perfectly with the story that lived.

[@gamerkingdom1442]

As a artist, I understand his obsession for perfection. You want to make sure that your work mindblows your audience! Unfortunately, it can also get in the way…. What a unique episode you did her Matt, I like it.

[@snbsixteen6stars201]

Also as a dutch cartoonist, knowing Richard was inspirted by dutch art really cheers me up

[@PSVitaat2am]

It certainly does fill you with good feels. 🤗

[@PinClockFuntime]

As an animator myself I adore all of Williams' commercial work and especially the visual aesthetic as Thief, but I hate that I have to agree with Fred, its a story that's both barebones and needlessly complex at the same time, its 100% carried by its incredible animation. Most audiences would think the animation looks cool but wouldn't enjoy it as much as they should because of the unfocused story

[@SpiderandMosquito]

To his credit, that seemed to always be Williams' vision for it, a story carried exclusively by it's animation, and since I've never agreed with the whole "style over substance" argument, I believe there's a merit to that. But there's a legitimate conversation to be had. Fred wasn't some corporate villain, he was a guy given the thankless job to make something sellable out of this mess of a production, and Williams was definitely a Kubrick esque diva about the film, which I probably have been too forgiving of out of my admiration and sympathy for the guy.

[@thecactussword4304]

Or you can just admire movies that just focus on telling a simple story without too many characters or real twists. I personally feel the simplistic story of Thief works in its favor as the story is consistently framed as a fable from the opening scene. It adds to the effect that this is a tale, a story shared and mutually enjoyed across generations, some ancient history that may or may not have even happened, it's all so bizarre: so little of it makes sense, from Yum-Yum's bed made of monsters, to the monstrous war machine being defeated by a single tack, but at the same time it's simple and you can't say all the events wouldn't logically lead into each other. But it all might have never even happened at all, this fantastical story shared over generations as fake and make-believe as film on a reel. tldr, I feel the simplistic nature of Thief's story aids its framing as a myth, and somewhat ties into the gaggy ending, albeit probably unintentionally.

[@jasonblalock4429]

Yep, that's how I feel about the Recobbled Cut as well. Every individual scene is jawdropping to watch, but as a film/story, it's... OK. But not great. And there are sections that really could (and maybe should) have been chopped down, especially during the big battle finale, which kind of drags on after awhile.

[@PinClockFuntime]

​ @TheCactusSword Then there's the meeting with the good barbarians and the old lady who tells the Cobbler this and I feel like that could have been trimmed down. A lot of sequences could have been trimmed down to make a better paced story and allowed this film to achieve the legacy it deserved. Just sabotaged by perfectionism in the animation keeping all the aspects from getting the same attention they deserved. It just has too many pieces and should have had better decision making in what was essential to keep and what could be let go to tell a tighter story.

[@SpiderandMosquito]

@@thecactussword4304 see this guy gets it

[@toonorochi]

In my opinion sadly the one party mostly to blame for how the movie ended was Williams himself his overambition was what derrail the project, while i'm think the recobbled cut is indeed an amazing piece of animation i wonder how the finished film looked like in Williams original vision

[@TankHardcheese]

If this story interests you, I highly recommend looking into Yuri Norstein's and Francheska Yarbusova's 40+ year (and still ongoing) development of their animated film The Overcoat. It's a genuinely fascinating story.

[@VirGnar]

Yuri Norstein - aka "The Golden Snail" - is definitely a wholesome contrast to this story. His strive for perfection in animation has captivated enough wealthy art lovers to have his works funded till the day he dies.

[@Harukurochan]

Ditto for “The King & the Mockingbird” and “Hoffmaniada”, two films that were completed as intended, but still had very long and troubled development and production cycles. In the case of “The King & the Mockingbird” the director actually *restarted* production on the film decades after the first version of the film was completed *and* was able to create a second version of the film that reflected his intended vision.

[@AL-lh2ht]

Atrocity guide did a amazing video on the subject.

[@bluespaceman7937]

I didn't know about The Overcoat. Thanks for this information!

[@KateHolden]

Kind of a tragic story, really. Williams wrote the book on animation (The Animator's Survival Kit, widely considered a "must read" book on the subject) and so had an enormous impact on the entire industry... but he never finished what he considered his magnum opus.

[@dapperash]

Richard Williams also published the “Animator’s Survival Kit” which comes with a dvd of a really informative lecture for new and aspiring animators!

[@GenerationWest]

THIS was a story I knew for some quite some time, and I get it from both sides. Williams had COMMITMENT to this project, but as a studio, I wouldn't touch this with a ten foot pole. It's not a movie, it's a Frankenstein's Monster.

[@WxIxLxLxIxAxMxS]

Frankenstein's monster just *wanted TO BE LOVED* !

[@ian5088]

I wonder if AI in 5-10 years would be able to fix it and fill in the missing parts

[@Blokewood3]

Would you touch it with a thirty-nine-and-a-half foot pole?

[@idimation5579]

Hey Matt, if you want to talk about animated films with crazy productions, look no further then Little Nemo in Slumberland. That film had the likes of Hayao Miyazaki, Ray Bradbury, and the Sherman Brothers all entering and leaving the project.

[@WxIxLxLxIxAxMxS]

Plus lots of Disney animators! who were seeking new employment at the time, since Disney was still in its "dark age" after Walt's death in 1966. By the mid 80s, Disney was actually considering closing down its animation production but luckily for them (and unluckily for TMS/Little Nemo) The Little Mermaid literally saved Disney animation in 1989. The Little Mermaid and Little Nemo: Adventures in Slumberland both came out that same year.

[@KaminoKatie]

@@WxIxLxLxIxAxMxS And Little Nemo got clapped by Kiki's Delivery Service at the Japanese box office

[@HeeeeeyOcarina]

If anyone's interested in learning more about The Thief and the Cobbler I definitely recommend checking out the documentary Persistence of Vision. I think the DVD is out of print, but you can rent it digitally online.

[@THANATOS-PRIME]

This is going to be interesting to watch. I had a copy of this movie on VHS when I was a kid and know a little bit of the making and history behind this movie. Now one of my favorite KZbinrs is going to cover it. Super excited!

[@PSVitaat2am]

I never got around to watching it as a kid, I only saw previews.

[@THANATOS-PRIME]

@@PSVitaat2am There are a couple of different cuts of the film the one fans like the most is called the re-cobbled cut. It tells the story with minimal dialogue.

[@THANATOS-PRIME]

@@animezilla4486 I will admit that one is a catchy tune

[@Tareltonlives]

I remember in grade school seeing VHS trailers for both Princess and the cobbler and Arabian Knight, and thinking "wait a minute, this is the same movie!" and being VERY confused while fascinated by the unique animation. This is one of my favorite tragedies in film history- an ambitious artist who doesn't know how to make a full length film, out of his element in the cutthroat ruthless greedy world of filmmaking. I'm so glad for the Recobbled restoration project- it's an art film ultimately, based entirely on a gorgeous art.

[@hubertberrum6242]

I felt the same way when I saw B C Rock and The Missing Link, both are an adult animated film based on Evolution and Prehistory about a caveman and his friends a pterodactyl snd a brachiosaurus

[@Zastralord]

What a coincidence, I just got around to watch the Recobbled Cut a few weeks ago and was absolutely blown away by the animation but also about the tragic production history behind it. It's always good to see the movie receive the recognition and attention it couldn't get earlier. Zigzag was a really fun villain too, he felt like the character that the animators had the most fun with.

[@Tareltonlives]

Zigzag is a great example of animation and voice acting making a character and meshing absolutely perfectly. William's got so much expression blending comedy and menace and sheer exuberance, and Vincent Price was simply irreplaceable.

[@brandonlyon730]

@@Tareltonlives Vincent Price is always a gem, to bad he died before he ever seen any version of the movie, then again I heard he did the voice recordings in the very early stages of the movie’s 30 year development so that’s probably no surprise.

[@toastwings9358]

@@Tareltonlives the fact that vincent price was one of the few actors to never get recasted makes me happy

[@UndeadEggmiester]

This is a story that sometimes having to much ambition and perfection will ruin a project instead of helping it.

[@some_guy117]

A tragic tale about one mans vision that he tried to bring to life, and never got to see that vision come true, or at least come true as he wanted it to have

[@crestren5996]

What a rollercoaster. His perfectionist attitude was his undoing but Im at least glad his work will still be remembered along with the other animators that came together to rework it.

[@yakumorisuke9403]

This was a fascinating episode. I love 2D animation, and wish more places were producing it today - Williams' work here really is beautiful.

[@ChrisMeadows1992]

This has to be one of the most fringe and unexpected Wha Happuns ever.

[@ashblossomandjoyoussprung.9917]

If you want a fun Wha Happun that's pretty obscure, there's a Korean movie featuring Laurence Olivier that's pretty fascinating. It was a very expensive film for the time, and it was similar to Battlefield Earth in that it was meant to promote a cult-like organization. It ended up not being shown at all until around 20 years later. There's also the infamous Jerry Lee Lewis movie The Day The Clown Cried which has an interesting story.

[@shuboy05]

@@ashblossomandjoyoussprung.9917 Inchon? That movie is frequently mentioned when expensive troubled movies are talked about.

[@scottwood4123]

The Conqueror with John Wayne has a fascinating story surrounding it.

[@ChrisMeadows1992]

@@scottwood4123 Fact.

[@SDS2017]

It is mad that this movie is still being made. While not officially, fans have been attempting to make this movie as good as possible

[@TOKYOTOYBANZAI]

The story of this movie's insane production and its gorgeous animation is one of my favorite stories of all time.

[@KaminoKatie]

It's truly a tragedy

[@thatpikminguy]

oh my god matt covering thief and the cobbler, THANK YOU!! any more attention brought to its tragic development is always appreciated!

[@jtm-inc2912]

*sigh*... No matter how many times I her this tale, I still weep at the potential greatness this movie could’ve been...

[@bobafett4265]

I heard of this movie due to it's infamous drawn out development, glad to see Matt actually making a video on the subject, a very fascinating work of art and having a fan made Director's Cut of all things is kinda cool, might have to check it out when I can.

[@Kramdaddy]

A trend I have encountered since I was in college, having been introduced to Richard William's work, is the Sultan and his rings scene in particular when shown, elicits so many people to ask for its source material, it's just so beautifully & masterfully animated. I am very happy to see the appreciation Hayao Miyazaki receives as well these days, and it saddens me that there may have been plenty of times where artists like Williams will never get to truly spread their wings due to corporate minutia.

[@SudrianTales]

How much of corporate interference though stems from artists like Williams taking the piss with their cash to make movies that'll never make back their budget and have decades long development cycles?

[@ng_canadian]

I got a DVD of this movie about 20 years ago in a box of Froot Loops, and I absolutely loved it

[@jonnycakes7133]

SAME! I wish i still had it. The dvds of this can be hard and expensive to find.

[@EbonMaster]

I went in expecting to laugh at a shitshow and came out the other end having a profound level of respect for an animator I never knew about before today. I hope his vision for what animation can be and should be is accepted by the general public someday, somehow.

[@stormwatcheagle5448]

It is...in Japan.

[@whyccan9063]

@@stormwatcheagle5448 lol

[@EbonMaster]

@@stormwatcheagle5448 Feelsbadman

[@richardpatterson4]

@@EbonMaster looks at what warner bros are doing to all there animated shows Same

[@WxIxLxLxIxAxMxS]

Um....it is.

[@FirstLast-cg2nk]

Watching the animations that this guy put out is something else. I mean, look at how smooth the animation is on that Superman commercial. Animation was legitimately built different back in the day.

[@phabiorules]

Honestly, it's such a shame how much animation has changed. I understand that it makes more financial sense to do it the modern way, but old school animation is just so stunningly beautiful.

[@TheMarkInside]

I will say that Williams did eventually supervise his own cut in the 2010s entitled 'The Thief and the Cobbler - A Moment in Time'. Its basically the final work-in-progress version that was made before Warner and the Completion Bond Company took it away. I was lucky enough to see it at MoMA years back. I do prefer it to the Recobbled cut because it doesn't use any footage from after Williams left (that's covered with pencil tests and storyboards), but sadly its not available anywhere.

[@GinoGabriel-t5c]

Richard Williams is a legend. I saw this movie twice and the animation still stands for me. The movements are so fluid and the checker stair scenes is so mesmerising.

[@BigBossMan538]

At least Richard also wrote a book sharing his knowledge of animation: The Animator’s Survival Kit. After what he went through, sounds like a fitting name

[@Derl30]

His Christmas Carol is available on KZbin, please watch it in HD! It is fucking great, one of the best adaptations, and gorgeous.

[@PKNut-un8cp]

I never expected a topic like this to come up on the show. I'm a huge fan of animation, and hearing this story get more coverage is always a blessing. It's a shame how much work went into Thief only to be wasted, but the story is still one of the most fascinating to date.

[@danielstockbridge6233]

A really interesting and sad story about a hugely influential animator. For anyone who doesn’t know, (and I can’t believe it wasn’t mentioned in the video) Richard William’s wrote what is widely regarded as one of the best sources of Animation knowledge and information, the Animator’s Survival kit, which is now just about standard issue for any Animation course or professional animator.

[@Mone7Hero77]

Hello Matt, at 6:04 you showed a picture of “Faisal bin Abdulaziz Al Saud” who became the king of Saudi arabia the same year the film started production 1964, the one who funded the movie was prince “Mohammed bin Faisal Al Saud” in 1978.

[@Spectacular66]

Richard Williams became one of my inspirations during my childhood watching movies like Roger Rabbit and Disney animated films. May he rest easy.

[@GoofierBrute]

Fun fact: supposedly in the original, the Cobbler wasn't supposed to talk at all, except in the end when he said to the princess "I love you". And he was going to be voiced by Sean Connery.

[@WxIxLxLxIxAxMxS]

That's true! Notice how in the scenes you see him talking, the animation is inferior? Except at the end when he is marrying the princess; notice when he says "I love you" her eyes light up and she excitedly hugs him?

[@user-gj1lb6xp3t]

I can't believe this stuff was animated by hand, it looks incredible!

[@WxIxLxLxIxAxMxS]

Go (re?)watch Walt Disney's animated Pinocchio. That was all drawn and painted by hand, and came out in *1940* ! Frame by frame. No computers.

[@raviamodernepic]

I used to rent this movie from my community library growing up! Would love a Wha Happun on another movie I used to rent, Little Nemo: Adventures in Slumberland. Loved that movie, but it also terrified me as a kid haha.

[@MusicInMe754]

Yes, I second this!! Not the terrified part, but the "wanting to see a What Happun" part, haha.

[@WxIxLxLxIxAxMxS]

Ooh, pajamas do scare me....

[@gamerboy6787]

Sometimes it's so easy to criticize and villify corporations and executives... but when creative folks are left to their own devices, with their grand visions and plans and ambition, with no one in the room to reel them back in so to speak, and tell em "no" from time to time... THIS happens.

[@IamJustTheBiscuityOfTheSeaity]

Many producers and executives told him no and to remove stuff, if you read any of the scripts you'll see how much they eventually changed and removed

[@SlantAJob]

I have a pretty vivid memory of pulling a DVD of this out of a box of froot loops as a kid in the early 2000's.

[@slyfrailzz]

This movie has a special place in my heart. Same with David Firths project that overshadows his life.

[@jbwarner8626]

I think the saddest thing about Prologue is that it was intended as the first of six short films that would be assembled together into one compilation feature. Richard Williams' working title for that feature was "I Hope I Live Long Enough to Finish This". He did not 😥

[@EastyyBlogspot]

I really hope you look at 13th warrior, I heard many years ago there was a 4 hour or so cut that was to be more in line with Eaters of the dead, but the version we got was sort of cobbled together when antonio banderas got big

[@TruxtonII]

16:48 In light of recent news this hits especially hard Being an animation creator or even just a fan is suffering.

[@jaleink2953]

"Art through adversity" People often think it means the more you suffer for your vision and sacrifice to ambition the better your art will be. But in reality it means the more you temper ambition, humble vision and work within limitation the better your art will be.

[@dizzydial8081]

The saddest part is Richard is a pure artist. He inadvertently subscribed to a philosophy Walt disney also followed which is "Make art to make money." He wanted to create beautiful art, and acquire any capital to facilitate that.

[@KaminoKatie]

At least with Walt, his older brother is in charge of the finances and budget control

[@LuxwingGo]

Very sad he never got to finish the project he practically spent his life making, but I hope it meant something to him that he made something there are still people so passionate about to this day.

[@walttholomew]

Your insult of We're Back: A Dinosaur Story is a very personal wound, Mr. McMuscles. There are few villains I find truly more fun to watch just enjoying being evil than Professor Screweyes.

[@doomviolence1508]

Wait…the awkward “other” guy from Red Letter Media’s first feature - Gorilla Interrupted - was the person behind the Cobbler re-edit? The world in which we live gets closer to the void each passing moment.

[@scootaluigi9381]

Not a single cel-animated movie has ever been animated entirely on 1s (although Akira came close). A finished version of Thief and the Cobbler might very well have been the most ambitious 2D film ever made

[@owensreviews625]

One the most prime examples of development hell.

[@yanstein8464]

*norstein laughs in 40 years of production and ongoing*

[@Facebones2391]

Saw so many commercials for this in the 90s and they all clearly called it "The Thief and the Cobbler", It was the Miramax version. Felt like a fever dream ngl.

[@angelsartandgaming]

Duke Nukem Forever: I took 14 years to develop. Metroid Dread: it took 16 years for me! Thief and the Cobbler: Amateurs. Metroid Dread: What was that? Thief and the Cobbler with a 30 years development time: AMATEURS!

[@BatDanNight]

The Other Side of the Wind: You are all little babies. (this was a movie Orson Welles began work on in the 1970's, and it eventually got completed in 2018).

[@WxIxLxLxIxAxMxS]

@@BatDanNight never heard of it, but i must now look it up!

[@rebx12]

holy shit! As someone who loves animation the story about this is so close to my heart. Richard Williams was truly a visionary of the medium and its sad how the story ended! If this story interest you please watch the documentary Persistence Of Vision its so good but bittersweet. i know for Richard Williams was always hard to speak of the movie after it was taken from him, i hope he made peace with it! thanks Matt for this one specially

[@IRCannonFodder]

Williams also wrote the Bible that any animator would be lost without. The Animators Survival Kit. It gives tips and lessons through the years of animation and even has run/walk cycles from Thief in there. It is a monsterous 350+ page book with everything on the 12 principals.

[@poisonempress]

As an artist myself I understand the desire for perfection, but we can never achieve that. It does not matter how long we work on something it'll never be perfect. If Williams didn't fall into that disastrous strive for perfection, this could have been such a better ending to the story of a person with so much talent to share.

[@retromeister3709]

The Thief and The Cobbler is the Anti-Aladdin Disney movie. Very underrated film 🎥 🎞

[@joshhacker8503]

Sweet! I love this behind the scenes story! It's a shame, but legitimately fascinating!

[@tinybee7780]

Oh wow, I remember watching this a long time ago. Those backgrounds looked very faded trippy to me, even as a kid watching this back then. Now that I'm older It's really sad and unfortunate to realize what this film had to go through just to get it finally released.

[@sebastianguerra6358]

Another interesting animation What Happun could be The Black Cauldron. Disney barely acknowledged it for years and it almost sank the animation department. It was beaten at the box office by The Care Bears movie for God's sake.

[@KaminoKatie]

The fact that The Care Bears Movie clapped The Black Cauldron at the box office is the only cultural impact that it has

[@clawofthefallen]

The history of this project is an epic by itself. It's also one of the most influential no matter what others think. It's not only William's passion project and Magnum Opus, it's also signifies the same for the whole animation industry. It is the unfinished painting of not only one master, but many masters.

[@anthonycousineau5205]

For me this film is one of the best film for pure nostalgia I got for it. Love the thief so much in this movie!

[@PeeperSnail]

As someone who's studying animation, this movie has always stood in the back of my mind as a cautionary tale ever since I've learned about it. Compromising on art is something you'll have to do eventually, so either choose the way you'll compromise, or be ready to suffer.

[@ImCurrentlyNaked]

I think the name "The Princess & The Cobbler" was because the Thief in that cut wasn't of much importance to the story comparably to the Princess. It'd be like naming The Simpsons "Homer & Ned" instead. I believe the restored version have restored the thief's importance within the movie? It's been years since I've watched this film, loved it as a kid, but it's story is definitely second to it's visuals.

[@Tareltonlives]

Yes. Most of the Thief's material- elaborate chaplinesque routines- was just sliced out of the cut, while the princess was given songs and additional dialogue to emphasize the romance.

[@GrandmaHasDied]

My sister and I got the Miramax version of The Thief and The Cobbler on DVD out of a cereal box when we were kids. We watched it constantly; just because the Thief’s slapstick scenes and dry, quiet, mumbling dialog had us in stitches; we still quote some of his lines

[@MatthewCSnow]

It can also be stated that the miramax version also featured a handful of bad pop culture references that were shoehorned in cus they heard that Robbin was in Aladdin. Which, while it worked for Aladdin’s style, did not fit at all

[@deplorabledegenerate2630]

Oh he was just trying to form a union. He never once creeped on the 14 year old they hired to model for Snow White. No sir, not Art. Didn't marry her when she was 16 after allegedly grooming her. Walt never once threatened to murder him over this.

[@WxIxLxLxIxAxMxS]

Did Walt *literally* threaten to murder the guy over that? I mean, I wouldn't blame him, just curious~

[@deplorabledegenerate2630]

@@WxIxLxLxIxAxMxS all here say, just like the grooming. But they were allegedly close friends before 37 and by 41 hated each other. I think it is fair to say their relationship and eventual falling out is... complicated. But Art being pervy and Walt's practices towards his workers were definitely the two big things.

[@momamario]

I think there's a very important takeway from this that a lot of people don't realize: There are LOTS of great artists out there today. Music, visual art, writing, whatever. Unfortunately, those people have to go where the money is and do what they need to. There are people out there, probably doing subpar work on commercials, who could make incredible stuff if given the chance. Marvel gets a lot of shit (and rightfully so) for its lousy CGI, but the people who did it aren't at fault. As with everything, time and money get in the way.

[@WxIxLxLxIxAxMxS]

That's true. So many people don't realize that if Walt Disney didn't have his big brother Roy in charge of finances, Walt would have bankrupted himself. He threw 110% into his projects but Roy was there to ground him in reality; stop him from *spending* 110% percent by organizing side projects and stuff. Look at Dumbo, for instance, and compare that to the films before it (SnowWhite, Pinocchio) Dumbo was made quick and cheap to make money to fund their big project at the time, Bambi. Walt Disney was a creative genius, but if he didn't have big brother Roy, Disney would have been another Richard Williams or Don Bluth.

[@garfieldcat007]

While mentioned only as a joke, I heard Cool World is also ripe for a Wha Happun episode.

[@Kimosabes2hot]

What happened to this movie still makes me sad

[@ratgirl34]

I have a memory of seeing this in our local theatre. I loved it, even the mixing of art quality. I honestly thought a lot of it was intentional until watching this video lol Also, I forgot the name of the movie for about twenty years. And no one else seemed to remember it at all. So until I found an old DVD copy at a garage sale, I thought I had made it up as only small fragments of the memory was left. When I saw it again I remembered which theatre, that my mom was there and let me get a bigger bucket of popcorn than she normally did, and that I couldn’t take my eyes off the screen the entire time. Rewatching that movie was like reliving the hood memory for awhile.

[@pokehybridtrainer]

No wonder a bunch of animation buffs cite this movie as a labor of love. Now I know why. Thanks, Matt.

[@TheCaliforniaHP]

So I had this on VHS back in the day. I really should watch the Recobbled Cut because even as a child I appreciated the amazing artwork.

[@Petrico94]

This is a fun one. An artist getting tied up in a personal project until not only does it inspire a hit Disney movie but the bank starts using said movie as inspiration to patch together what was made of this movie.

[@CactusInsane]

I really understand Williams love and dedication towards his works as I share those same dedications. I still study and use this book as a foundation towards my style

[@michaelnally2841]

Not sure if anyone is also aware of this. But what didn’t help Williams put was that he was infamous for missing deadlines because of his perfectionism. Like with the Saudi Arabian prince for the sequence he did Williams went way over budget and missed two deadlines. And in fact with the completion bond company Williams was making storyboards when someone came to check on the work….. for those unaware storyboards are among the first things you do for a film.

[@benjamincolbert5706]

It's so cool to see a nice but personal favorite film covered on here.

[@MrEasterband]

The whole story behind The Thief and the Cobbler is heartbreaking. Jaw-dropping and beautiful animation with amazing, mindboggling sequences, it could have been the greatest animated epic of all time. But it was more or less slaughtered and pushed out in order to make a quick buck (or recuperate as much as possible) because it couldn't be finished properly. The Recobbled Edition is still an amazing watch despite being an unfinished version

[@CJ-ln5ov]

4:56 “Oh! And there’s also a thief, a princess, a manipulated sultan, and an evil vizier to round things out.” I don’t think he intended this, but the first word following that being “Williams” cracks me up.

[@danielhergert7446]

This means that a Vincent Price movie has been on Wha Happun, a monumental achievement

[@FishSkeleton-]

Huge fan of this as a long-time fan, Matt, hearing your artistic perspective on animated works is basically a dream come true for me. If you liked making this then any more projects would be awesome, like a video on Food Fight!

[@Triad3Force]

Awesome vid. Let's also reiterate that Disney saw preliminary showings of Theif and proceeded to steal its concept, characters, theming, setting and almost shot-for-shot storyboard into Aladdin. Although, I guess that's similar to how Williams had essentially copied from the original source stories, but hey... lol :D

[@DenjinOni]

Actually just finished watching recobbled I remember seeing ads for this when I was little so I'm glad to finally see it

[@Chocolatewoosh]

SO happy to see you tackle the topic that is The Thief And The Cobbler!! It's history is fascinating and tragic, but the outcome is such groundbreaking, inspiring animation work that stands beautifully to this day. Such incredible work!! Always happy to see more people learn about it. The whole movie can be a lot to sit through but that sequence with the beautiful twirling roses???? Man.

[@PineappleCHUNKS]

It's been a HOT minute since I've seen this.....crazy to hear it's backstory like this

[@PersephoneDarling28]

the Recobbled Cut is one of my favorite movies of all time! thanks for the episode Mr. McMuscles

[@marcuswalters8093]

The clips you're showing for this shows some of the most beautiful animation I've ever seen. 😍 I actually visited Amblimation as a kid during the development of we're back. It was so exciting to have been there.