The Toledo War was more chaotic than I thought.

[@AlexisDahl]

Hey, there! Question for you: Out of curiosity, what's your take on this? Would you have sided with Ohio or Michigan in this whole thing? (I don't know if there's necessarily a right answer here.)

[@itsthevoiceman]

My take is that I wish more history lessons were like this one. And now I intend to visit the UP in the coming months.

[@AlexisDahl]

Oh, shucks, thank you! Also, that's amazing! I hope you get the opportunity to. It's pretty magical in the winter - and the waterfalls are incredible in the spring!

[@spamllama]

The solution reached seemed equitable at the time and no one lost their lives over the dispute. I think Michigan ultimately came out ahead, but I'm biased. Go Blue!

[@tallowisp8868]

I would have sided with the indigenous people.

[@C.Schmidt]

I think I'm with Ohio on this one. Hear me out... Ohio was made a state and drew up its constitution with the best maps of the time. Then in the future something changes. If we look at this like a law being passed then it's understandable that you can't retroactively apply a law. Like you can't punish someone for something they did before a law was created. So, to me, why "punish" Ohio for following the best information it had at the time.

[@marianlatimer5290]

My degree is in history and my advisor, rest his soul, had the best lecture on this in his Michigan History class. It was pure comedy gold. He was why I'm a Great Lakes specialist and I still miss him.

[@NAUM1]

Governor Lucas was also interesting in that he was involved in another "war" between two states called the Honey War. It was between the Iowa Territory and the state of Missouri, and it was also bloodless. Lucas was governor of the Iowa Territory in that one.

[@AutoReport1]

Naming kids "one" and "two" or "first" and "second" etc. is actually fairly common in different cultures. Primus, Secundus, Tertius, Quintus, e.g. were normal in ancient Rome.

[@Bahlzeron]

The History Guy did s good video on this too. To quote a line of his "the time Michigan and Ohio went to war, and Wisconsin lost"

[@larryhanus4150]

I was born and raised in Toledo. I always felt that we were more a part of Michigan, especially economically and geographically, if not politically. Was always a sports fan of the Tigers, Red Wings, and Lions. The UP has been our favorite vacation destination for many decades. I think Michigan and Ohio were both big winners in this “war.” Thanks for this great video.

[@John_Stabeezi]

Toledo is South Detroit

[@johnmc67]

Toledo has always been a part of Michigan. Proof? The Mudhens. Packo’s? The Toledo(/Flint) version of Lafayette/American.

[@johnmc67]

Have to include SW Ontario.

[@Shawn4168]

Shout-out from Toledo! I always love hearing this little quirk of our city's history talked about. The Stickney family legacy is still around here, as Stickney Ave is named after One and Two's father!

[@AlexisDahl]

Oh, man! What a legacy - thanks for sharing that!

[@katehendrix2504]

Lol! I have lived in the Toledo ares Mt whole life and am not familiar with the Stickney family, but I am Definately calling Stickney Avenue One or Two Stickney from now on! 😉

[@kalburgy2114]

I was born in Toledo, but my wife, born in Virginia of West Virginia parents, was related to the Stickneys.

[@michaelmichael8754]

Very well done. Two points I would like to add: 1) The Ohio claim was based on a boundary that was surveyed by an ex governor of Ohio. 2) We actually got the Western UP BACK. Previous to 1836; the Michigan Territory had grown to include all of present day Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa and the part of the Dakotas east of the Missouri.

[@tomchaput1206]

Michigan and Wisconsin had a problem with an inaccurate map in the Iron range by Ironwood and Hurley. Things got tense too.

[@Barblooms]

I’ve known this story for a long time, but I’ve never heard it told in such a compelling way. Keep up the great work!

[@AlexisDahl]

Oh, man, thank you! This is such a kind and meaningful comment. ☺️ The Toledo War is such a classic Midwest history story, so I'm glad I could add something with my telling of it!

[@TheWabbit]

I've known most of this story minus the specifics on the 1 injury and the names. This was much quicker and more information. I spent at least a few days gathering information about it when it peaked my interest one day.

[@BSNFabricating]

Just found your channel the other day (the Edmund Fitzgerald video), and I've learned a lot so far. Keep up the good work. When you mentioned the name "Two Stickney", I thought it was unusual, but let it slide because the early 1800s were tough times (See anything to do with Andrew Jackson)... Then you said that his brother was "ONE Stickney" and I about fell out of my chair. Either their folks had no imagination whatsoever, or they just didn't like their kids very much. For the heck of it, I can see this war being turned into a Broadway musical. When Two Stickney stabs Joseph Wood, he could sing a slightly altered Johnny Cash tune, "A Boy Named Two". I will now see myself to the door.

[@drzarkov39]

The idea for "A Boy Named Two" was based on Sue Hicks, a man who is best known for his role as a co-instigator and prosecutor in the 1925 trial of John T. Scopes, a Dayton, Tennessee teacher accused of teaching the Theory of Evolution in violation of Tennessee state law. Also, I know some Italian families name their first son Primo. and their second son Secundo. I wonder if a third son would be named Turdo.

[@LavitosExodius]

The funniest thing about this whole story though is even after all that the lost peninsula is a thing lol.

[@isaaclemmen6500]

Two more things about Steven T. Mason the young "general". He went on to become the first governor of Michigan which made him the youngest governor is US history, and Mason County on the Lake Michigan coast is named after him.

[@brucewinningham4959]

THANK YOU for this Excellent Video Alexis. I have enjoyed it. I am from Tennessee and I do have relatives in Michigan. I don't ever remember hearing this story about the Rivalry between these two states. However, I do absolutely believe you. I used to hate History in Elementary & High Schools but now I absolutely Love All History. A Class called "The History of American Funeral Directing" in Mortuary College turned me around to Loving it.

[@stevenburkhardt1963]

You should do one on how Michigan (the US actually) got Isle Royale instead of Canada. It’s an interesting story

[@PrimeNumbers2_3_5]

I drove down through toledo last month on my way to cleveland to get a boat and i couldnt get a song out of my head that i learned in the third grade. "When we got down to toledo, old lucas wasn't there, he heard that we were comin' and ran away with fear. To hear the wolves a howlin' scared the poor devil so, he said before he'd fight us, he'd give up toledo!" (Or something like that, it was apparently a marching song for the militia)

[@randallwoodruff2108]

When I was in Michigan I was very confused by the existence of the upper peninsula so thank you for this video! We wanted to visit it but we only made it as far north as Frankenmuth. I really feel like this video helps to give a more well rounded sense of what this channel is and how it really is "all things Michigan," whether its about its geological, industrial, or political past. Great work, keep it up!

[@AlexisDahl]

Thanks, Randall! Also, Frankenmuth is lovely - I'm glad you got to make it that fair! Also, thanks for making that observation about the channel! 🙂 I've been characterizing it as "science and history stories set in Michigan" to myself for a while, but realized I'd never done anything that was /purely/ a history story. So, here we are! 🙂

[@i2n2z]

Ohioans vs Michiganders seems to be built in to the history

[@Luna_the-Idiot]

I wanna invade Ohio because why not

[@tallowisp8868]

Just yesterday I though to myself "It has been a while since the last Alexis Video". I guess it is just a coincidence but a very welcome one. :D

[@AlexisDahl]

Aw, thanks! 🙂 I try to publish a new video every two weeks, but ended up having to skip last Friday. Thanks for thinking of me! 🙂

[@johngreen4610]

I grew up in Wisconsin, Right on the Michigan border. I learned that "Oi-scon-sin" in one of the Algonquian languages means "Land between the waters". Now even as a child that didn't make sense to me. Clearly to the east there is a great body of water we call Lake Michigan but what significant water body is on the western side? The Mississippi River? Or perhaps the Pacific Ocean? Neither fits very well. None of my teachers could provide a satisfactory answer. I had also heard of the squabble between Ohio and Michigan but that was in a separate drawer so I never correlated the two. It turns out that what was called Wisconsin referred to what we now call the Upper Peninsula which is clearly a land between great waters, Lakes Michigan and Superior. For convenience sake this was called the Wisconsin Territory and a lot of territory got lumped in with it including the land today called the state of Wisconsin. When the settlement of the dispute between Michigan and Ohio was granted the UP largely lost its moniker as the land between the waters and when the rest of the Wisconsin territory became a state in 1848 it took the name. Btw Michigan , Also Algonquian, means great water, in reference to the lake.

[@HoboMinerals]

I haven’t been all over the United States, but I absolutely love it in the upper and lower peninsula… Thank you for your videos!! I’ve learned quite a bit already

[@AlexisDahl]

Thank you! I really appreciate you saying so.

[@Luna_the-Idiot]

As a Michigander, i see this as an absolute win

[@Donleecartoons]

There's an Ohio Historical Society marker on Route 109 just south of the state line that commemorates the closest thing the Toledo War had to an actual battle (The Battle of Philips Corners). The barn next to the marker finally fell in on itself after years of weather damage, and a large truck has been parked in front of the marker.

[@portfoliofotoz]

I'm a Virginian and only moderately interested in Michigan history. That being said, I'm certain beyond a shadow of a doubt that I'd be wildly entertained by watching Alexis read the periodic table of the elements . . . or even the Toledo phone book (if such a thing still exists.)

[@C.Schmidt]

I was not expecting the side by side scene with "Andrew Jackson" and his "AG". But was presently surprised by it and thought it was very well done!!! It's so cool seeing you progress and try new things!

[@AlexisDahl]

Ha ha, aw, well, thank you!! ☺️ The more I learned about this story, the more I discovered the potential for Shenanigans, ha. 😂 I used to have a white wig somewhere and was genuinely a bit bummed I couldn't find it!

[@richardcooke9948]

I heard about the Stickneys in the book about homesteaders.

[@OllamhDrab]

Hee. The UP being part of Michigan rather than Wisconsin started to make sense the first time we *drove* there in a compact car from Madison. Even on modern roads in modern America, that's a freakin long way, and taking a boat would make a ton more sense, especially way back when. :) (Also part of why I was really curious about the geology there, but we didn't have an Alexis on KZbin then. :) )

[@jerrygibbons7666]

Up until now I've been a lurker - watching & enjoying your u-tube posts about the U.P.! I don't often get to the U.P., but when I do I enjoy it totally! About those flies, I mean to learn more about them in one of your previous posts, as I plan to go to Copper Harbor to do some splake= fishing soon, using my own boat. I am located near Battle Creek so I qualify as a "Troll"! You are doing Great job on u-tube! Thank you for all you do!

[@Oddzilla51]

Another great video and lesson! Thanks! And yes, we are eternally grateful that the UP is part of Michigan!

[@Susie_Floozie]

I'm gobsmacked! Just yesterday I was watching weather predictions, and as storms were surging across the upper Midwest, I started wondering how the deuce Michigan wound up sprawling across such severely truncated geography. *Yesterday.* And you just answered my question IN THE PAST. Talk about proactive! I'm already subbed, but this clinches it!

[@andyswords455]

The city of Toledo is the real loser here, almost got to be apart of Michigan. Terribly sad

[@Marcus_Aurelius_Maximus]

Nice - someone who knows how to say Maumee like a native. If you drive through Northwest Ohio sometime and pay attention to the street names and counties you will note the following: Lucas, Wood, Stickney Ave, Fulton, Perrysburg, Cass Road, Monroe Street, Tiffin, Maumee...

[@normanlacy3390]

Lived on the maumee river my whole life. We still call co rd k in fulton co ohio old state line. Still have Stickney ave in toledo also

[@gregcarnes80]

Oh, oh, wait just a sec! The sloppy survey didn't stop there. Michigan has a third peninsula! It's called the Lost Peninsula and a person has to drive through Ohio to get to the Lost Peninsula of Michigan! Oh and the Yoopers have tried to gain statehood! So there!

[@MadMurdoc86]

I remember a school trip to a museum in Lansing that had a shipping crate from those days that was labelled as "Toledo, Mi"

[@gregm766]

Just a little addition to the video, Mason "The Boy Governor" is entombed in Capitol Park in downtown Detroit.

[@howardcitizen2471]

That's why Toledo's county is named Lucas.

[@kevinforth7618]

Thanks for the story! I knew some of the high-level details, but learned much more here. Always enjoy the videos.

[@jerryward3311]

Michigander in the Detroit area and love the U.P.! Michigan definitely won that war. Ohio can keep Toledo.

[@RDLouks]

Hindsight being 20/20 we/Michigan won. Always have and always will love everything about our Wonderful Upper Peninsula.

[@mitchellleonard4030]

Went through the UP a couple of years ago. We spent the night in Grand Marias at the Superior Hotel. Beautiful country. Thanks, for the episode, really enjoyed it.

[@BuckeyeStormsProductions]

And these days, we reenact the war in a football game... *grudgingly* Congratulations UofM...you won this year...

[@AlexisDahl]

Ha, to be fair, it's been... a long time since that happened. We'll see how the teams do next year! 🙂

[@JBLewis]

@@AlexisDahl one year later.... D'oh! (from a Buckeye)

[@American_Patriot_69420]

6:25 National Treasury and Surplus are two words that don't go together.

[@donhill3130]

Enjoy your Yooper stories. Grew up in Houghton, since my father was a professor at Tech. May be moving back there to retire, we will see. Thanks again for your well produced videos!

[@MrBoblo999]

Got sent this video from a friend who thinks your content is great, which I can't disagree with :) Keep at it, and I'm sure you'll get that magic video that shows up on every front page!

[@AlexisDahl]

Shucks, thank you! (And thanks to your friend, too!) Ha ha, we'll see if that "front page" day ever comes. For now, I'll just keep telling cool stories and hoping they get in front of a few more people every now and then. 🙂

[@Lcngopher]

Fun fact: your college actually started in toledo but later moved to ann arbor. My guess is because of the war

[@AlexisDahl]

Huh, interesting! I didn't know that. Do you have a link where I could learn more? I thought UMich was founded after the Toledo War, but might've learned wrong!

[@Lcngopher]

@@AlexisDahl it was founded in 1817. It moved to ann arbor in 1837. Oldest school in the big ten until rutgers joined. I thought it was in toledo but may be wrong. The campus information center site had a history of the campus article that gave a quick overview.

[@Lcngopher]

Also, it appears osu is the youngest school, forming in 1870. That puts a new perspective on the rivalry. Its the oldest and youngest of the big ten siblings fighting for supremacy

[@alexanderlapp5048]

​@@Lcngopher, I thought it was started in Detroit then moved to Ann Arbor.

[@Lcngopher]

@@alexanderlapp5048 i did say i may be wrong in my first reply

[@XenosInfinity]

Historical shenanigans, you say? You have my attention, that's one of my favourite kinds of shenanigan.

[@RoxnDox]

This is another of those fascinating little history tidbits we never really heard about in West Coast schools…. On the other hand, how many Midwest kids ever learned about the Pig War out here in the Washington Territory?

[@RosscoFAM]

Great video Alexis! Well told, good research/info not to mention interesting!

[@mikepetrucha2774]

Like you, I had heard of the Toledo War and knew the general background. Thank you for providing additional details!

[@donyoung7874]

I have a copy of an 1835 document from a Captain George Griswold with the Detroit Rifle Corp, to Stevens Mason MI's Governor, offering their services if needed to defend the area "from the arrogant encroachments of Ohio". And that's how MI received the Upper Peninsula, as a beautiful consolation prize for losing Toledo.

[@danielsmock5753]

You should do a story on Ann Arbor- how they had to move the city to higher ground because they flood out in the spring in its first location

[@johnjunge6989]

Once again you hit the nail on the head, great stuff!!

[@jimburnsjr.]

Excellent video as always... thank you

[@blkbishop112]

I'm loving your channel, I'm learning a lot.

[@Rabblewitz]

Grew up in Michigan, but never really know about the kerfufflel with Ohio ... or at least it didn't stick if I did at one time. Love the western UP, though I only lived there when I was in college. I wouldn't mind going back when I retire, but my wife ... who grew up in the UP ... has no interest in doing so.

[@nowjustanother]

One and Two Stickney? "Ohio," am I right?

[@ericthompson3982]

I've been to Toledo. Trust me, most of us in Michigan are pretty glad Ohio got it. "What are we gonna do with all these bricks?" "I know, let's build Toledo!!!"

[@Omnifarious0]

I didn't know that bit of history. Wow! Thank you.

[@AlexisDahl]

I'm glad you got to learn about it! ☺️

[@stephenstone5700]

You forgot to include mention of the "lost peninsula " of Michigan that was created by the Toledo war. It belongs to Michigan but the only way to get to it is by driving into Ohio and back into Michigan.

[@sometimesisetfires]

Very interesting, thank you!

[@samkyser9206]

Love your videos, I have read about, this is very interesting, coming from Hillsdale.

[@jamesmooney8933]

I am a Pittsburgher. I aways felt Pittsburgh should be part of West Virginia. George Washington from Virginia chased the French out. Pittsburgh has very little in common with Philadelphia. There is a mountain range between us. They all speak like Syl. Stallone, not normal Pittsburghese. Troops from Philadelphia came twice to Pittsburgh in order to settle revolts. The Whiskey Rebellion which was because there were no road going to market in the east, so farmers made Whiskey, because it was easier to ship, then wheat. In 1877, the Philadelphia based Pennsylvania Railroad Road cut the number of brakemen. Before George Westinghouse a Pittsburgher invented air brakes to stop trains. Brakemen had to climb on top of Railroad cars and turn wheel that stop that car. Next the brakemen had to run over the top of the car to the next car until the train stopped. Brakemen was a dangerous job. Philadelphia sent the Pennsylvania Nation Guard to stop the strike. The Pa. Nation Guard made a big mistake, they entered Pittsburgh on a Saturday. The Steel workers, Glass workers and Railroad workers. Stationed themselves on a hill over the Railroad yard. They pinned down the Pa. Nation Guard in their Railroad cars. A riot happened and destroyed all the Railroad yard. Then of course there was the Homestead Strike

[@brentkeller3826]

Those brave Buckeyes who keep the sneaky Michigander Swamp Fox and their Yeti Army bottled up in their frozen peninsula, ever vigilant for the day the Swamp Fox cross the Great Dismal Swamp in an effort to break the blockade by FrogTown and spread their icy doom upon the rest of the world. (Kidding, the Michigander Swamp Fox wouldn't *really* have a yeti army and Toledo wasn't *really* known as FrogTown once.. was it?) :wink:

[@raedwulf61]

This was better than the video on this topic by The History Guy.

[@jimjjewett]

Wisconsin was once part of the Michigan territory, and two of our first 6 "organized" counties were there. It was shed as ungovernably far away, given transportation of the time, so getting part of it back was ... clearly more about face-saving than good government.

[@gtwfan52]

Michigan won. We got mineral riches and unbelievable beauty. They got the Mudhens and Corporal Klinger.

[@richardmourdock2719]

As a native Buckeye I too used to marvel at this story. But in the end, Ohio got Toledo and Michigan got the Upper Peninsula (and the copper and other minerals). Only the people who live in Toledo think that Ohio "won" the Ohio/Michigan war. The rest of us think that Michigan by far got the better deal. And remember it was less than a decade after the decision was made that the copper began to be mined from the UP. Oh yes, Michigan won.

[@atozentertainment9828]

Your fun and a fellow Michigander. So I'll be a new Subscriber.

[@BruceEEvans1]

Alexis, you are simply too cute! I would watch your videos even if I wasn't a life long Michigander. I have lived in the Grand Rapids area for over 40 years now. Could you make a video about GR? Like maybe, where on the river are these grand rapids?

[@lyleschull6516]

Heard a long time ago that why U of M and Ohio state is such a big rival

[@jimcurtis569]

Nice to see you back. Go Blue!

[@gregnowak6450]

Interesting thanks

[@mrlucasftw42]

Holy Toledo!

[@marklambert4793]

New subscriber. Yeah, We lost the war. But they gave us half of Wisconsin in consolation. And they wonder why the rivalry between the University of Michigan and Ohio State is so virulent.

[@ronbusby4596]

When Michigan went to war with Ohio and Wisconsin lost.

[@JeffinBville]

That was great. Thank you. Go Blue!

[@AlexisDahl]

I'm glad you enjoyed it! (Also, Go Blue!)

[@YeOldeTraveller]

Native Michigander, I always TLDR this as Ohio and Michigan when to war over Toledo and Ohio lost.

[@edquinn7135]

And we still can’t stand each other.

[@zumba1292]

Can we send this to everyone in Wisconsin who think the UP is theirs

[@Meinstein]

Did you ever or would you research why the stones of Grindstone City were so special?

[@bigboopy8243]

Great job. New sub

[@danielsmock5753]

Yes - that’s true -

[@cardwellave2]

I wonder if this same Stickney family is what Stickney Ave in Toledo is named after.

[@kalburgy2114]

Yes.

[@ValenciaMonroe_]

Lol, the thing one and thing two made me laugh hard.

[@nellayema2455]

Fun story!

[@earlyre]

Re: naming kids one and two.... The Romans did this a fair bit ... Not super imaginative with names. Primus/Prima, Secundus/Secunda, Tertius/Tertia ( first, second, third) etc were fairly common Roman names.

[@spiceyfrenchtoast9421]

Being from Cincinnati never knew this

[@jamesmooney8933]

You are very entertaining.

[@marklittle8805]

Ohio would likely give Michigan Toledo now....that is a town that has seen some hard times. It does explain the Michigan / Ohio State rivalry. Let's go Blue! (And as someone from Ontario who lived in Windsor, I find Michigan's history with Ohio fascinating)

[@clintshiplett8548]

Go Green, Go White! Go SPARTY! Don't forget that.

[@ronsamborski6230]

@@clintshiplett8548 Go Spartans! For all the University of Michigan fans, keep in mind that Bo Schembechler was born and did time in Ohio before escaping to a much better place! 😂 ✋🏼

[@wolver73]

Let us indeed go Blue.

[@johnprice867]

Yes the old joke is we in Ohio lost and had to keep Toledo lol lol

[@davidmetzger5221]

I had a revelation you were on Saturday morning broad cast tv ☺

[@texasyojimbo]

Not to be a dork, as it's a fine story, but the reason why Andrew Jackson didn't get the electoral votes of Ohio in 1836 (around 5:10) is because Andrew Jackson wasn't running. The Democratic nominee that year was Martin Van Buren.

[@jonlangford7622]

Shenanigans

[@ffwast]

ohio started a war by trying to steal that land and lost by having to keep it 😆

[@curtisblake261]

Once I told someone from Toledo, "I used to drive through Toledo on the way to Cedar Point". She replied mockingly, "Yeaaah. There's definitely no reason to stop in Toledo".

[@coletrickle-km7cl]

Well there's 2 reasons to stop in toledo. if you like the 📺 show M.A.S.H. then you stop at the front street tony paco's

[@hkkhgffh3613]

Voole voo causher avec moa?

[@curtisblake261]

My electrical engineer uncle secretly nudged his wife so that their children's first and middle initials would be A.C. and D.C. I was the first to notice it.

[@macsnafu]

The birth of the Alexis clone! 🙂

[@marksisto900]

Michigan has Flint ,Why would we need Toledo ?