The top 5 biggest mistakes when playing Terraforming Mars by Stronghold Games

[@shawnieyang1587]

1. @0:50 Choosing your corporation in a vacuum 2. @5:34 1 - 2 actions per turn, not per generation 3. @7:09 Required costs vs Optional costs 4. @8:03 Tile placement restrictions 5. @12:34 Timing your investments Thank me later

[@GreyWizardInsights]

I'll thank you now, thanks Shawnieyang!

[@johannesspunkt]

you're the best! explained for dummies in superslow

[@en0n126]

@@johannesspunkt You're not a dummy. This video should have been 5 minutes long, not 20.

[@youtub13]

Set playback speed to 1.25x or 1.5x

[@Lone_GamerUK]

Legend - thanks

[@RibbittIII]

I’ve played TMars over 20 times by now. I just discovered the ocean proximity placement bonus today. Any tile placed next to an ocean gets a 2 mega credit placement bonus. And they stack. It’s in the rule book under tiles.

[@FrAnkX0r88]

Even after 40+ games i was not aware of difference between mining area and mining rights, great job!

[@Theophilusophical22]

I've never seen plants called food before, that threw me off until you tapped it (the plant section of the tableau) when you said it once!

[@GreyWizardInsights]

ha! We also call the selectors in arkham horror (for when you're controlling the attribute values) "fruit loops". I've been trying to get better at using the official vocabulary for the videos but sometimes I slip. :)

[@jamesleary8244]

We played for the first time last night and did not see the unlimited actions per generation. We had 4 players and only did two actions each per action phase. The game took 4 hours because nobody’s wanted to waste actions on increasing the temp of the planet. Now we know the tiles we should be in a better spot for next time great video

[@hotbeefo]

I misread the rules the first time and have played the game 5 or 6 times now with only 2 actions each per generation 🙄. It took way too long every time and we didn't understand why anyone would ever use an effect card or spend heat...

[@artboymoy]

Yeah, we have some players with AP (analysis paralysis) and they'll do one action and then spend 5 minutes thinking of taking a second action. It pushed our game over 3 hours. But he did win in the end...sooo....

[@josephtyreman6448]

Hey, great video. One thing I noticed was that it seems you believe thermalist is based off of heat production, while in fact the victor of the reward goes to the person with the most heat cubes at the end.

[@Blovy123]

No its based off of heat production

[@MrDatandroid]

@@Blovy123 No, he is correct. The rules are clear. Thermalist: Having the most heat resource cubes (page 11).

[@jakobgjertsen2801]

@@MrDatandroid Yup, Also visiual indicator; production milestones have brown background

[@JackBishopismyname]

Some mistakes I have seen/fallen into are; forgetting standard projects, as well as rewards/milestones. For some reason I started just drawing 3 cards rather than 4 each generation. The other main thing is not collecting money for adjacent ocean tiles. Basically I need to focus a bit less on what is in my hand and more on the board.

[@c.a.clayton4584]

Ground game (or the lack of one) has cost me standing in almost every single game I've played. This Saturday, I won first game of TM ever, and it boiled down to three things: overall TR rating, M€ production (as it gave me great flexibility in spending on either cards and/or standard projects), & a significant presence on the surface of Mars with greenery & cities (which translated into end game points)

[@Barl3000]

For your #1 pointThe Thermalist Award is NOT for having the most Heat production, it is actually for having the most heat cubes at the end of the game. This makes Helion a little less powerful than you make it out to be, but still one of the better or at least more flexiable corporations. For point #3, red bordered effects, like the -1 plant production you show on "Small Animals", is always optional, you don't even have to use it on other players if you don't want to. And for point #5 As I stated under point #1, you get thermalist for the actual cubes, NOT production. The "Beam from a thorium asteroid" also has other things going for it, a jovian tag and a direct point. And if you have some titanium the cost is not a big deal, but if you don't have that, I agree that you should probably go for something else. Most of your general points still stand, but you have misunderstood some critical rules, which to be fair is easy to do, since the rulebook is a bit of a mess. For my own beginner mistakes I get too hung up on my cards, both by getting too many that I really dont need and I forget about the board. Forest tiles and cities can be a huge amount of points, points that I tend to leave on the table. If one of the other players is building up a huge amount of forest tiles, you should be willing to smack down a city with a general project to snatch up some of "their" points. Also forest tiles are essentially worth at least 3 points for most of the game, untill oxygen is filled up and depending on city placement. So you really should have SOME greenery production going to take advantage of that.

[@GreyWizardInsights]

Now that its months later (and many many many games later), I kinda want to redo the video, thanks for the clarifications! We like to say that if you're eligible for the the award for so many cards you've probably lost the game due to taking too many cards 2nd I totally agree that most people fixate too much on "always doing projects from cards" rather than flat out buying heat production, cities, or whatever to take advantage of opportunities that come up which they might not have cards for. I'd say in most games I play that the majority of cities all come from cards as if they couldn't buy cities normally. Thanks for the comment. :)

[@Handlemyhandlebars]

Can't you use your heat to still increase your terraforming rating even when the temperature has reached it's highest point? I can see two great reasons late game to still have lots of heat in either going for the thermalist and getting 5 vps, or keep moving your TR up for a point a move... Am I wrong in that as far as the rules on when the temperature hits its max?

[@jagdisc]

In case you haven't found an answer yet - You only get TR if your action changes a global parameter. If temp is already maxed out, you cannot convert 8 heat into 1 TR.

[@cally77777]

That's totally wrong, dude. If you can't advance the temperature, you don't get the TR rating for doing it. Cos it achieves absolutely nada in terraforming, you see. So the video maker is one hundred percent correct; don't do it unless there's some other reason. For example, in my last game, I had the card that allowed me to swap as much heat production for money production as I wanted, which I was going to play anyway, so I might as well increase heat production more before doing that (usually).

[@wolftreetruck4946]

@@cally77777 Not 100% correct. Just right on that point. there were some other things he messed up.

[@MrMeatzombie]

For small animals, the rulebook is pretty clear, red borders are optional 1) Check the requirements. In order to play a card you must meet its requirements and be able to perform the effects stated on the card, with the following exceptions: You may play a card that... - raises global parameters that have already reached their goal (for example when there are no more ocean tiles, or when the temperature is at +8 °C). - adds resources that you can’t collect (for example adding microbe resources without having any microbe project to place them on). -removes resources for any player (red-bordered resource icons, see example on card C below) if you can’t or do not wish to. Even if these effects can’t be performed, you may still play the card, performing all other effects as usual. Example: Kim can play Asteroid (card C) even if the temperature has reached its goal, but then she gets no TR. *She may also choose not to remove any plants at all*, or just do it partly (maybe only Kim herself has plants, or maybe Stanley or Robinson have less than 3 plants to remove). All plants must be taken from the same player, though

[@GreyWizardInsights]

I think for my group the thing that was really confusing was the difference between ignoring remove resources for any player (which you can) and ignoring remove production from any player (which you can't to my knowledge).

[@caveman42]

If everyone is at 0 except you, you can choose to take that resource production away from someone else, you just don't go below 0, is how I see it.

[@V1ktula]

2) Paying and performing immediate effects. First you must pay the card’s cost. Then the lower panel of the card shows you any immediate effects. These effects (and other effects triggered by the card you just played) are performed in any order you choose. Any production (see brown boxes on cards A, B, D & E) MUST be performed. Resources or production with a red frame means that you can affect any player you choose (even yourself).

[@piotrwoznica9100]

BGG official rules forum for this game states explicitly, that you can forego to remove RESOURCES in red borders, but not PRODUCTION. This is what confuses most of the players. If the PRODUCTION has a red border, then someone has to have specific production level for it to be decreased in order to play that card.

[@Nico-ut2kg]

My advices: 1. Fault placement rules (no city adjacent to a city - forest next to own tile - money for adjacent oceans) 2. Don't buy too many cards (I call it small production line) 3. Main Focus on the board not the cards 4. In addition to Pont 3 It's hard for your opponents to prevent u from playing your cards, but it's easy for them to steel you a important place on the map (so don't plant 3forests and watch your opponent building a city in the adjacent slot - cards are yours the board it's not!)

[@Halloweenville]

Nicely done I like the Zoom In on the cards great job!

[@GreyWizardInsights]

Thanks! Glad to finally have the good one up. I'll keep my eye on things so hopefully it doesn't happen again.

[@jurajlerotic3395]

One of the mistakes i've seen several times is playing blue card with action that can be used every generation, but people only used it once, not because they forgot but because it was either too late or they didn't have required resources for action, resulting in disadvantage against someone who played card with vp or production

[@GreyWizardInsights]

I agree, a couple times now we've gotten through an entire 4 person game and one person said "what, I was allowed to use my blue card more than once?" Doh!

[@Notturno81]

I was always unsure about placing the forest tiles next to another tiles I own. I thought the forest should expand from one central green place. Also, the costs are now clear. We can choose if we take any resources from another player, but we have to decrease their (or own) production as a condition to play a card. Thank you!

[@CreativeCitiesProd]

Another common strategic mistake is buying too many cards. We get our cards and think 'I want that one and that one...' and often these are divergent strategies from what we should be focused upon.

[@GreyWizardInsights]

Our advice to new players is to avoid getting into a situation where they can claim the Planner award. ;)

[@stuartshannon8561]

I find that at the end of the game I only have a few cards in my hand and can't do as much. While I have seen others that buy lots of cards, that tangental connect and then can have an amazing generation. I love this game!

[@slyfox20035]

I’ve only played a couple of times . But I’ve learned that if the 4 cards you are dealt each round do not help you , look at the other players and if one of those cards will boost/ help them keep it, you don’t have to buy it. Then you can just discard.

[@Chiungalla79]

One of the most important decisions in the game is "how many cards am I going to buy". To few is bad. To many is also bad. And there is no optimal number. It largely depends on how expensive the cards are, how good the cards are, how many players are involved, how fast they finish the game, which expansions are in the game, ... So you always have to factor in many things to make a good decision. That keeps the game interesting even after 200 or more matches. I love this game.

[@Shadenium1]

@@slyfox20035 Use "draft" rule from rulebook where after getting 4 cards every generation you choose 1 card and then pass the rest 3 cards to the next player and you get 3 cards from another player clockwise one round, counterclockwise another round. It evens out the odds for players so that one person is not dealt golden hand. Improves the balance, fixes some problems.

[@richardsplendid1570]

Hey, how is your temperature close to 0 in round 4 or 5, as you say in the vid? I'd be interested in how that works? We reach that point mostly around round 9. We play 2 players so that might be one reason + we don't try to end the game as fast as possible but still it sounds curious? Are you all just jumping on temperature increase from the get go?

[@GreyWizardInsights]

We almost always play 4 to 5 players which doubles or triples the number of "events" per generation that can increase the terraforming of Mars so that matches your plays too right? If you're hitting 0 at 9th generation with 2 players, 4 players should be hitting it twice as fast as you. 5 players should be even faster. With thousands of games collected online, I believe the number of generations to end the game is between 8 and 18. We've finished around 11 or 12 pretty regularly.

[@crizzlevideos]

Thanks for this. I made mistake number 2 last night and we had a stockpile of money and resources so high that there was nothing in the bank. We realised at that point something was wrong!

[@zekicansamli5614]

I am not sure about two rules: (1) Can you see the first 10 cards before picking up the corporation? That is definitely not the case at the Steam version and we do not play with friends that way. (2) Can I plant a forest even if I have no city or tile? As far as I know plant must be adjacent to a city tile as a placement rule. Can you please clarify? Thanks

[@Lone_GamerUK]

1) On first turn you always look at youre 10 cards first before dedciding the corporation. 2) Forest get played to a tile you own, however if you don't own one it can be placed anywhere where a forest can be played. kzbin.info/www/bejne/pGTch6Opnruqgpo (go to 11mins)

[@SweetyHeaven]

I've played like 15 games before my group realised that we need to check our cards first. Still have some bitter taste after that one EcoLine game :) Also I find it hard to not overbuy cards, need more experience most likely.

[@AFriskyGamer]

I caught the Mining Rights vs Mining Area text today, while teaching a new player. Couldn't believe the images were the same (as I use those to efficiently know what to do). The Red Production being mandatory was news to me, though. Thank you! I like this way, as it fits the theme better (you must feed those animals!). I wish it was clarified better in the rulebook.

[@GreyWizardInsights]

That’s awesome! It comes up with every new player eventually for us. Glad it helped!

[@magicofshootingstar]

I know this is very old video but in case this also gets recommended to someone else too still. It actually says in rulebook that you don't need to play the red lined resource minuses if you can't or don't want to. So they actually are optional!

[@mars4ever]

Question about #1: how can you NOT choose the corporation in a vacuum, if it's the firts thing you have to do? Am I wrong or you get the 10 cards only AFTER that? At least it works in this way in the game on Steam, but the rules on videogames are always the same of the board games.

[@GreyWizardInsights]

Even in the Steam game, you can click "Change Corporation" in the top left, after you've seen the cards you're going to get. Absolutely it's very important you make sure the corporation you chose, is the best corporation "after" you've seen the cards. :)

[@mars4ever]

@@GreyWizardInsights wow, I really didn't notice this option, many thanks for the tip! I'll check in the next game.

[@Lone_GamerUK]

Very Helpful I'm sure there are more, but clearing up these issues is super fantastic - thanks :)

[@jayf4859]

Love that shirt! Great video btw. Thank you!

[@chris.s.patterson]

If you do a follow up video, can you explain when it makes sense to manage microbes and animals? Must you always play a collecting card first?

[@GreyWizardInsights]

From a strategy perspective, I don't like to play cards that suggest what my future turns will be. The reason for this is that we play using the draft variant, and if they see that I have played one part of a combo first, maybe hoping to get another part of the combo, then the other players are likely to block me in the draft, even if they don't want to use it. A good example is predators, if I put out something producing animals before I know where the predator card is, someone might try and get predators out so they can start siphoning off of my points. Likewise, if I get a part of a combo, I like to hold it in my hand as a response. I get a special kind of glee when I've held onto predators for several turns, I remember animals going through the draft so I "know" someone has an animals card, and later, when they've produced a few animals, I play the predator I've held onto and start eating their animals. In short, I think trying to remember what has gone through the draft, not hinting to the other players what you're going to be doing by playing half of a combo you can't yet execute on, and blocking people in the draft are all important components of competitive play. If you can elaborate on what you were thinking, I'll incorporate a more in-depth response in a future video. :)

[@antoniogutierrez7218]

For a while the group I play with and me used to only place forest tiles next to other forest tiles instead of any kind, after a while we learned that was wrong; also, we played one or another card with some mistakes, like Mining Area, we realize our mistake on that card until we play the video game.

[@robrennich6959]

It's pronounced Fo-Bo-Log with a long o on the first two syllables.

[@ChugThatEstus]

The only mistaje we made is that we picked a corp before distributing the cards. Didnt know it was at the same time. Thanks 🤗

[@Wustenfuchs109]

It depends really. The board game manual says that you choose projects and corporations simultaneously but in the PC version you choose corporation first, then you choose the project cards. So it is like Draft variant, you can choose to play that way or normal way. In my games I always go corporations first, projects second.

[@andrewz1754]

3-4 turns for investment in a 4 or 5 player game sounds fine. But in a 2 or 3 player game, when you go 11-12 turns (as opposed to say 9 in a 4 or 5 player game), you should give yourself another turn or two for investment. I would like to try the city-mayor/forest-gardener strategy though...

[@amandaaciu6248]

Love Terraforming Mars! One mistake we made is by repaying for blue ribbon cards each generation to "reactivate" them before taking advantage of their benefits again... Also, we thought titanium and steel could be used in place of MC any time we needed to. With so many rules we decided to play it out the best we could and then watch a tutorial video to set us straight :) Terraforming Mars is definitely one of my All time favorite games! Thanks for the video and tips!

[@chrischew5143]

You should probably use a different example for Mistake no. 5. There are a few other reasons to play that card even at late game. Energy production could be one, the Jovian tag could be one, even the 1 point on the card could be a reason where there's nothing in your hand that generates points nor any city tiles or forest tiles could be build. It's also situational when a certain global attributes being left untouched due to the cards available and there are times temperature don't get moved until gen 4 or beyond. Maybe a late game steel or titanium production enhancing card would be a slightly better example....

[@GreyWizardInsights]

You're right, I could have elaborated the context a bit more, I'll leave this here and revisit it later if I do another similar video. Thanks!

[@christiancraig2326]

On mining area, if you place it on a hex with two resources, do you raise your production of that resource two? Or do you just take the two bonus resources and raise your production one?

[@BrianD0313]

I'd like to see one of these videos for the Solo Run

[@ren-x6]

I’m confused. I’ve only ever played iOS version, but from memory it always loads up corporation choice first and then only after choosing one does it display the 10 starting cards... So the official rules allow you to view everything at once? That’s great. I never liked “choosing in a vacuum”.

[@jenniferbutler6551]

I keep forgetting about the basic actions. I held out and waited for a card to increase my power to 1 (so I could use another card I wanted) when I could have just paid to build a power plant as a basic action.

[@GreyWizardInsights]

I'm working on a video of "how to win terraforming mars" and taking active control over your game by doing things like using the base actions is super important! If anyone else has any tips they think I should include, please post them. :)

[@chris.s.patterson]

Agreed! Using the basic actions at the right time is a strategic necessity at certain points in your game, but many players think they are “losing” if they resort to them.

[@rchavezc67]

Man! Thank you very much, very good comments and tips!

[@jonnylaris]

How are you maxing heat by generation 4? I don't get it. In our games heat is one of the last things we max in gen 10-12.

[@GreyWizardInsights]

So at the time we did this video, if I remember right, we played with 5 players and Venus rising. It was pretty easy, especially as someone always seemed to play with a heat/based corporation like Helion. Anymore, playing with all of the expansions and typically 3-4 players, the game takes dramatically longer, more like 12-13 generations

[@andorivanpocze5967]

Just played a 5player game yesterday (3new players base game) and we got 0C in generation 7 game ended 2generations later though. But I guess the more peapole the faster game.

[@jparrett]

A standard game should last 9-11 gens. Heat is the worst resource because it is easiest to max. A healion player wouldn't want to push that hard unless they have a card such as insulation that could get them out of heat.

[@GreyWizardInsights]

And here is the full video with the top views, sorry everyone about the mixup

[@PrayersByOrthodoxSaints]

thank you for your clear explanations. Subscribed

[@josiahhansen5833]

The main reason I raise my energy after generation 7-8(my games usually don't max out temperature so quickly) is because there are a plethora of cards that require you to lower your energy production that I find extremely valuable.

[@GreyWizardInsights]

Does anyone start starving you of the cards that require you to lower your energy production after they see you use them a couple times?

[@josiahhansen5833]

Depends on the player. I've played with quite a few people who just care about their own game and improving their own board, so they don't try and sabotage or interrupt my game plan if it doesn't help their own.

[@Dudldom]

One question about the 1-2 actions per turn rule. There are those cards with germs. 1 action is to put a germ counter on it. That action doesn't require any credits or additional resources. If, after everybody else passed, I can take as many actions as I want, I could put an infinite number of them onto the card, which is certainly not intented by the game. So whats the rule here?

[@GreyWizardInsights]

You can only use each card once per generation so you can’t have an unlimited cycle (to my knowledge)

[@artboymoy]

That last card in your example would be great with that corporation that lets you start out with 10 titanium. My probably I think is during the research phase I buy a lot of cards and then don't have the money to spend. Plus I think I was unlucky in my first to games that I played so far in card draw. I really didn't get stuff that increased my production all that much compared to other players.

[@AmongUsAcademy]

Fantastic video. Interesting benchmark of around 65 VP for a 10 round game with no cards

[@ludwiglarsson3352]

A thing I missed out on for some time was the distinction betwee cities in play and cities ON MARS.

[@davewilliams9999]

Is your third mistake (Required costs vs Optional costs) correct? The rules state "You may play a card that removes resources for any player (red-bordered resource icons, see example on card C below) if you can’t or do not wish to.". I read that as all red-bordered resource icons as being optional.

[@GreyWizardInsights]

yeah, its a mess IMO: Here is a BGG link, boardgamegeek.com/thread/1827788/red-borders-solved

[@Raistlin2k]

Mistake don't selecting Hellios with Deimos Down in the Start Hand ... Realy with that start i would Select Helios. Keep only Deimos Down, Green Houses(for late Game) and Release of Inert Gases. And Play Deimos Down Turn 1, Thats +3 TR + 4 Iron and one additional Heat Production! for Hellios Round 1.

[@RunningMan1984]

How are you getting the temperature to 0°c by the forth generation? Even if you start with the standard rules where everyone starts with one production of each resource, getting the temperature to 0°c in a five player game would mean that every player would have to raise the temperature one step each in all the previous three rounds. That seems highly unlikely to accomplish.

[@andorivanpocze5967]

Another common one is with starters and maybe with a little more experienced players when they get excited is buying a lot of cards in the biginning. And then they are stuck with cards without a purpose

[@GreyWizardInsights]

A lot of people have said that they win tournaments buying a lot of cards. I wasn't sure, so I began aggressively buying a lot of cards and regularly get the planner milestone. What I found, was that in general, I can reliably win, possibly because of using this technique. So I started thinking, why is that a new player "loses" with a worse score when they buy a lot of cards, and an experienced player can reliably score higher (and often win) when buying a lot of cards? I think its a consistent understand of several things, mostly value at time, tempo, synergy. At the end of the game, I want points and cards that feed my earlier projects. At the beginning of the game, I want things that increase my ability to generate consistent points turn over turn. I've played enough to have a good idea of which cards to buy 'and when', turning a losing strategy into a winning one. What do you think?

[@andorivanpocze5967]

@@GreyWizardInsights I've only ever played 4games in my life. All on the table that's how I like the game best. But you are probably right. Im just starting to feel the tempo of the game I think. Last game I played went well in this regard. I never had a bunch of leftovers which might have caused a problem if I didn't get any cards that suited me after a while. And than in the last generation I was searching for a science card every way possible, but it didn't turn up. Interesting theories for sure.

[@nightwishpower]

great video How many cards do you keep during the research? I never know if I should keep money early game or if I should buy more cards that could be so good late game.

[@GreyWizardInsights]

You have to watch your neighbors, but generally I keep 2-3 cards until towards the end of the game when I only keep cards that give me victory points (or have a symbol that gives me victory points). A big problem I see is that sometimes people don't realize the game is going to end in 2-3 turns and buy something that doesn't help score points and doesn't give the player anything they can use that late in the game. I have, in the past, bought a card that was vital to someone else's strategy or detrimental to mine (say carnivores) and never bought it the entire game just to prevent other people from ever getting it. Its pretty funny when you reveal at the end of the game that you had the one card that would have screwed your own strategy and you just never built it. :)

[@gersonkphone]

Buying a card *just* to keep it out of an opponent's hand seems like an extreme move. Even in the five player games I've been in, the discard pile gets shuffled less than half the time, and if it does it's usually in one of the last two generations. Unless it's a card you also expect to play soon, counterdrafting and discarding should protect you pretty well.

[@nightwishpower]

Wait I dont get it, when you dont want to keep a card, dont you jsut discard it?

[@GreyWizardInsights]

Did you play with corporate era and drafting? We go through the deck 1.5 times on average (5 players), but you're right depending on the type of card, if the card can just flatly give points to someone else for their strategy, it doesn't matter whether they get it in the beginning or the end, but things that affect the game over many turns are obviously less valuable at the end than in the beginning.

[@nightwishpower]

I only play solo or two players so we never go through all the deck ;)

[@Duraxy]

Off Topic Question, but what are the Maps in the back from?

[@GreyWizardInsights]

The left map is from the Dark Sun boxed set, the middle map is from the first Pathfinder campaign.

[@Soze60]

@@GreyWizardInsights Came here to ask this. Was not disappointed. Neat maps.

[@Amfm33]

who has the most heat units (not production) wins the thermalist prize

[@LEV1ATHYN]

Great advice man, cheers

[@franciscolobo8919]

I have a doubt, the plants and heat resources, can be used as an action paying 8 to create a Vegetation tile or increase temperature, respectively, but, can you pay in the same action, lets say 16 heat to increase 2 levels the temperature, and just expense 1 action?

[@bankotsu6233]

yes you can! Converting 8 heat to increase temperature is a single action, if you have 16 heat, you have the option to convert heat -> temp once, then immediately again as your second action in the same turn.

[@SrPicolo]

Your t-shirt made my day

[@Wustenfuchs109]

The mistakes you mentioned are simple rules. Most mistakes I saw were poor tile placement (not strategic) and card management - people buying a ton of cards because they are "cool" & "powerful" while not actually fitting their corporation and the cards played so far. You didn't get a card that fits you this turn? Fine, play some cheaper standard project, get some points, wait a turn and it will come - don't waste money on cards you don't need just because they look good. It takes some luck and some corporations are more powerful and universal than other ones (Ecoline, Tharsis and Helion are juggernauts), but there is some tactics and skill involved as well. But if you play with someone who's good at this game and he gets one of the three mentioned corporations, there is like 80% chance that he'll win (that 20% chance for you is in the case his cards really suck ass). If you go to BGG forum and you see a vote on corporations, 1/4 people (23.3%) put Ecoline as favorite, followed by Tharsis (18.4%) and Helion (17.6%). Others are in single digits. In short, when it comes to a game with very good players - DON'T USE CORPORATIONS! Use beginner ones - that way you at least eliminate the corporation bonus (as not all are equal) and then it only comes to luck of the draw and skill. You eliminate one disbalance factor. I mean, just the other day I played with my brother, Ecoline VS Phobolog - I was running circles around him, let him take a few points when I did not have to, and still finished with 35 points ahead of him. Had 40 megacredists production just on the mat and then 30 or so on the board. It was brutal. Corporations are cool, but if you play with people with equal skill, throw them out and use Beginner corporations. If you play with people less skilled than you, give them one of the three mentioned corporations (+Credicor) and you take Beginner, Inventrix, Thorgate, Interplanetary Cinematics or Teractor.

[@GreyWizardInsights]

I do agree that with new players, its best to use the beginner corporations, that way they all learn the same game. I prioritize games where we can play with slight differences, they're more fun (for us). So any of the games I have that we all play equal characters, we often play once and never again, and that would include terraforming mars if we didn't have the corporations so that each time our gameplay is slightly different. Do whats best for your gaming group, I'm happy I've attracted 10-12 regular gamers who enjoy "different" experiences, otherwise I'd have even more trouble playing through my colleciton!

[@Wustenfuchs109]

@@GreyWizardInsights That is a valid point. Mine comes from the view that difference of gameplay would come from the cards you drew at the start so it is you who tailors the corporation, but at least you all start on the equal ground - and that is not the case if you use corporations in the game. For instance, if I drew more cheap plant cards at the start, my corporation would go down that way. In my experience, while it is immersive to have those other corporations, it is game breaking if you play with people of equal skill because from the very start you can almost for sure say who's going to win. I mean, it too can create a nice game where everyone gangs up on the Ecoline player :) But I, personally, prefer an equal starting point and THEN specializing your corporation. Thanks for answering the comment :)

[@GreyWizardInsights]

do you find the ecoline player losing more often "because" everyone groups up on them? We mostly play 4+ player games with 4-6 people sitting out of any particular game (we setup multiple gaming tables usually so other people can grab other games) so we rarely experience 2 person games where there isn't an opportunity to gang up on the would-be winner.

[@Wustenfuchs109]

@@GreyWizardInsights Depends. When beginners play, they just focus on their own things - their tiles, their cards and so on. In that scenario, Ecoline wins almost always. But when better players go, they know that Ecoline must not be allowed to grow so they pretty much all gang up on him in the early game to the point where in mid-late game Ecoline is no longer a threat (he was prevented to build an engine) and the others just rush to the end trying to outsmart each other. So Ecoline not only loses, it finishes the last most of the time. The more experienced players there are at the board, more likely that will happen. It is actually frustrating for the Ecoline player - everyone's raiders, asteroid hits and so on target their plants, money, steel and so on. And it just makes for a miserable game. If good players sit down and one of them gets Ecoline, he just knows he will be everyone's target for the first half of the game and it really kills the mood. But in 1vs1 game, Ecoline almost never loses. It takes at least two players united against him, actively preventing him from building up. Otherwise, Ecoline and Helion win almost always - losing only if they get really bad cards.

[@dopestarinc69]

who the heck maxes out the heat by generation 4 or 5?

[@robrennich6959]

In my experience heat gets maxed out first most of the time.

[@GreyWizardInsights]

our group too

[@Barrylocke]

I'm used to Oxygen maxing out before anything else. Greeneries are a popular build with some people I know.

[@Chiungalla79]

@@Barrylocke Plants are way harder to come by compared to heat. Unless your group is lazy about heat (or Hellios uses all the heat as money), heat is going up pretty fast. Soletta alone brings nearly one step of heat per turn (7 heat). And generates a lot of points and money in the long run.

[@Boiling_Seas]

Depends how many people are playing. With more players, the game is shorter and heat can quickly shoot up. With only two or three players, it will take longer, so your engine has more time to develop.

[@ramstab]

So, I still don’t get it, I can pick 2 actions, for example place a Forest tile and play a card, but I can do these 2 chosen actions as many times as I can correct?

[@GreyWizardInsights]

To start, you can pass or do 1 action. If you pass on your first action, you can "not" take any more actions that generation. If you take 1 action, then you can choose to take 1 more action or pass to another player. It continues around the table until it gets back to you. If you previously passed on your first action, then you're skipped. If you took your previous first action, then you again have a choice of taking 1 action or passing to another player. This repeats, letting you take 1 or 2 actions until you've passed on your first action, then you have to watch everyone else take their actions until everyone has passed on their first action.

[@ramstab]

@@GreyWizardInsights great, thanks a lot, me and my wife just took 2 actions like play a card/generate a resource from 8 M€ to Forest, infinetely, but only 2 actions per player per generation. It was mind boggling for me to find out how the game is actually played. Thanks for clarifying.

[@hotbeefo]

Arggh, can't believe we've been playing with only two actions per generation. We even discussed adding a house rule of 3 actions each because of how few we had 😂

[@defiantoptimist]

LOL, we were doing the same thing. We'd have huge piles of resources at the end and we're thinking the game should let up buy additional actions somehow.

[@manozzo]

I have a question about mistake 3. When I'll play a card with energy payment as requiriment, if I dont have energy, I cant play that card, ok? but when the requiriment is -1 energy production for example, and I have 0 energy production, can I or not play a card?

[@GreyWizardInsights]

www.fryxgames.se/TerraformingMars/TMRULESFINAL.pdf Page 9 says they must always be performed. On BGG the designer said such but I don't have a link offhand. :)

[@tikemyson1679]

Question. If an other player placed a tile(forest, ocean, city), do i have to place my forest tile next his/her, if i do not own any other tiles on the map?

[@GreyWizardInsights]

No, the only restriction on placing forest tiles is that they must be placed next to another of your tiles, so as you place more cities or special tiles, you have more options where you may place your green tiles.This is on page 11 of the rulebook under "convert plants into greenery" Thanks!

[@tikemyson1679]

@@GreyWizardInsights Thanks bruv

[@aresx666]

havent played yet...but just gotta comment on that pure leaf. drinking like a true gentlemen

[@RaymondMillbrae]

Great tips.

[@bkmcdonald32]

What is the Jovian tag? I saw it on a card and have no freaking clue what it means

[@GreyWizardInsights]

The little symbol of Jupiter in the top right of a card!

[@danillonogueira4534]

What is that board at the top left corner? Please, don't tell me it is a Dark Sun related one...

[@GreyWizardInsights]

Wow, good eye! That is indeed a Dark Sun map!

[@danillonogueira4534]

@@GreyWizardInsights Dude, I played in this scenario for 2 years straight. It was the longest RPG table I've ever attended. Fond memories of my dwarf druid...

[@GreyWizardInsights]

@@danillonogueira4534 Dark Sun was one of the best campaigns I ever ran. :)

[@stefanformgren4978]

Im glad i play TM on my phone so I dont do the mistakes, the game show me were I can place tiles:)

[@johnhughes9075]

At last! A strategy video! In a world of "run throughs", "reviews" and learning videos, thank you for a video on strategy!

[@TheDirkKnight]

Often times I see players not paying attention to other people's tags. Someone will pass on a 1 vp per jovean because they don't need it, but someone else snags it for a bunch of points. This is the most basic example, also probably the least seen, but people pass on cards like 1 credit production per 2 builder cards, and pass it to someone who has 12 builder cards out. Anyway paying attention to others tags and what cards benefit those tags when drafting is super important and often under scrutinized.

[@GreyWizardInsights]

I find it easier to pay attention to tags at the physical board game table than it is virtually. Playing TTS or the board game app, I find it really difficult to keep track of what tags the other players need/want so I can block them. Its definitely an important part of the strategy and why I think the drafting variant is so vital to making the game more strategy and less luck based!

[@douglasgodinho9757]

when I heard the first biggest mistake I thought that will be an advanced strategy video... but even though, I great video, thanks for your time

[@GreyWizardInsights]

Sorry, its mostly for people who are new to Terraforming Mars but maybe struggling to play better or figure out how to develop a strategy to reliably score better! Thanks for your comment. :) I might revisit this game later with something more advanced but I was struggling with how to tell people in a concise way all of the scenarios that can pop up and how to take advantage of them. A really fantastic game that really challenges one's ability to constantly reevaluate strategy after seeing what new cards come up.

[@veerchasm1]

Quit talking about me! 😄

[@camzeee840]

The corporation is called Phobo Log. The O is part of the design :D

[@JonLee108]

great video, but what is this "food" you keep talking about?

[@eritorigon]

A mistake I guess my teacher made was picking the corporation before looking at 10 cards.

[@GreyWizardInsights]

When you first start, it can feel like it doesn't matter, but from a strategy perspective it can be very important!

[@eritorigon]

GreyWizardGaming Exactly my thoughts. I told my group and we are going to play the correct way this go around. Thanks for the tips!

[@plouf1969]

Nice video, but I think that watching a playthrough is the best way to avoid these mistakes. None of the mistakes you mentionned surprised me. I'd be curious to hear more of your thoughts regarding strategic mistakes, these were really interesting.

[@GreyWizardInsights]

I'm working on a followup video now that I've played another 20 or so games since making this video and playing with Venus Rising as well as the alternate game boards. When I'm playing, its very obvious, the exact format for the video is what I really want to dial in to make it really useful. Is there anything in particular you think I should cover?

[@plouf1969]

I think anything you'd say in front of a camera would be great, but I guess some quantitative approach to the game would be nice, i.e. - what are the pros and cons of trading production of X against production of Y (depending on how many generations you thing are still left) - cost of standard projects vs some card that make them much cheaper, and how likely you are to get these cards? - under what circumstances you aim towards cities vs awards vs milestones vs bacteria? Is it a question of taste, depends on your corporation, on initial draw, on subsequent draws? To be honest, I've never played so I can only speculate. Will probably know better after my first game next week :)

[@StevenStJohn-kj9eb]

Unsweetened Pure Leaf tea is an excellent choice.

[@paulorr4126]

I'm surprised you didn't mention anything about under- or over-investing in patents. It seems to me over-investing would be a very common beginners mistake: the 'Ooh! That's cool. Lets do that!' factor.

[@GreyWizardInsights]

You know, thats the first thing I tell people when I'm teaching someone new, when I made this video I hadn't yet experienced the effect of certain people consistently losing. I like to tell people if they get the award for hand size that probably means they've lost the game. ;)

[@NinjarioPicmin]

i just played the game the first time and got that award in gen 3 i believe, i had like 23 cards the first 9 generations (very surprised about your #5 because in our game temperature wasnt higher then -16 degrees until generation 26) and i had like 57 cards in front of me at the end and won because of the many effects i could combine

[@cally77777]

Bear in mind the rules gives beginners 10 cards for free instead of a corp. Seeing as you probably won't be able to use them quickly, and can possibly wait to sell them, you might consider going for this award. but otherwise its likely a mistake.

[@samplautz5586]

Helion is super powerful because of the heat it generates. You say it just sits in a pile until the end of the game, but you can easily raise the temperature once or twice per turn and get a ton of TR out of it

[@Z0nd4]

Thanks man. Good video

[@sacrificetosotec]

My son thought he had to buy the cards for their cost to get it in the research phase, not just for 3MB! He still did really well.

[@Pikkabuu]

Why wouldn't you want to increase your electricity if you needed it?! There are tons of cards that demand you to decrease electricity or play with your electricity so stating that you should never increase your electricity after a certain generation is a bad advise.

[@GreyWizardInsights]

Its fair that i have occasionally increased my power late game, but only to immediately lower it to pay for some other card. I still stand by the concept that other than to pay for something very specifically, there is little to no value to proactively pay for it. The worst is to pay for something several turns before you need it, when you could have used those resources to pay for something that would continue giving you something each generation

[@robertcarlisle4790]

Some of us keep forgetting that reducing "any" applies to other players... occassionally I correct them. The biggest mistake is buying too many cards. Save your money! When you get dealt the four cards, look at what you have in your hand, the plans that you've made, and see if getting another card helps or trumps that plan. If it doesn't, if you wouldn't plan on using it in the next two generations, don't buy it... except insulation!

[@GreyWizardInsights]

I agree! But many people go the opposite route and regularly win by buying as many cards as possible to get the early milestone. I'm still skeptical of it myself though!

[@kfitzz]

Helion and the corp that lets you buy +1 TR for 3 ME are OP, regardless of the starting cards

[@JimmyCos]

A big mistake is projecting to buy a card that requires X number of type of cards, like three science cards for example, and then waiting for those other cards to come each generation. It's a temptation.

[@sorinpopescu1139]

the project cards, are they secret?

[@GreyWizardInsights]

yes!

[@sorinpopescu1139]

@@GreyWizardInsights thanks!

[@sorinpopescu1139]

@@GreyWizardInsights can you trade megacredits for steel or titanium? Or you you have those 2 materials only the amount you produce?

[@JustMaxim37]

I made mistake number 2 in My first game Till My group realized its not just 2 actions per generation

[@yungwiskunde]

Casey Affleck, is that you?

[@GreyWizardInsights]

ssh, its my secret identity!

[@MorderElg]

I find it strange that so many people do not realize the name of that corporation is "Phobolog", not "Phoblog".

[@RuneGamborg]

Thank you for this :)

[@jennifershafley5062]

Love the shirt!!!

[@HerbJon]

Maxing out on heat in generation 4? I don’t think I’ve ever had that happen in any of my games..

[@GreyWizardInsights]

how many players do you typically play with?

[@HerbJon]

@@GreyWizardInsights 3-4

[@rk9sbpro83]

I cannot even imagine how bad this game would be if it was 1-2 actions per generation

[@GreyWizardInsights]

Seriously, I see it all over the place though!

[@Nico-ut2kg]

I messed up the effect of Mars university and Olympus conference. In the first game I had OC and in the second game I used MU as It would be OC for the entire game :/

[@TechTomVideo]

if there is helion, take helion - even in a "vacuum"

[@GreyWizardInsights]

Did you watch my latest video explicitely about Helion? kzbin.info/www/bejne/fofIaWh8pK6Ea6M

[@cslewis47]

great shirt

[@pokotarohero7903]

Ignoring the milestones and awards. Also thinking if you can take two actions during your turn you have to. Unless there is a strategic reason to take two actions like to bump the heat up twice to get the bonus heat production it is better to just take one action. Helps the game run smoother and less waiting around for people thinking on their turn.

[@chris.s.patterson]

Yep, ignoring them, OR not paying attention to the game tempo and waiting too long to grab one.

[@horstmeier2664]

Rating Helion as a good corp is probably not top 5, but still a fairly common mistake ;) I rarely see heat strategies win.

[@evantozer]

I’ve only played on Steam and you choose cards AFTER choosing a corp...I feel denied

[@GreyWizardInsights]

you can go back and change the corp in the Steam game, there is a button in the top left that says "Change Corporation"!

[@thomas16271]

I know, the video is a while ago. One of the smaller mistakes people do is saying PHOBLOG, actually the corporations name is PHOBOLOG from the Mars Moon Phobos.

[@GreyWizardInsights]

OMG, thats awesome, I totally missed that. :)

[@piotrwoznica9100]

@@GreyWizardInsights It's even written on the flavour text on the card itself.

[@GreyWizardInsights]

@@piotrwoznica9100 lol, so it is!

[@cjanquart]

Something I can't seem to find in the rules is when you raise the temperature, there are heat bonuses. Are those heat resources or heat production? The ocean placement at the high temperature and temperature increase at 8% oxygen are pretty clear but the heat bonuses are not.

[@stevencambo1561]

Bro, where is your teleprompter?!?! Come oooooon!

[@mangs9940]

you have a strange likeness to Casey Affleck - you could be his brother

[@sergeypodoplelov5953]

Thank you for your excellent explanation. Btw verry good speach, voice (i mean, it's easy to understand you, even if my english level does'nt good (i'm from Russia, was only study it in school and little bit in university, not my speciality).

[@GreyWizardInsights]

Thank you Sergey! Your writing in English anyways is dramatically better than my Cyrillic. :D

[@sergeypodoplelov5953]

:D

[@littlezimty]

Can you go more into detail about required costs vs optional costs? I get into this argument with my friend all the time. For example, I've been playing slay the spire a lot lately. In that game there is a card "concentration" which tells you to to discard a specific number of cards from hand then get 2 energy. The game will give you two energy even if it was only possible to discard 1 or 0 cards from your hand. In Dominion another example. Bishop is a card which lets you trash a card from hand to get a number of victory point tokens equal to 1 plus half the cost of the card trashed rounded down. Even if you don't have a card to trash, the game will still let you play the card to get 1 vp token. When we played terraforming mars I could see that some cards were very specific in their wording about needing to lower production. But other cards were not so precise and make it seem as though, for example, if you're unable to lower your own production of a resource because it's at zero then it won't be required to lower it to play the card.

[@GreyWizardInsights]

The most straight forward way to look at the rule is from the FAQ on BGG. You must perform all requirements of a card, except non-production red bordered costs which can affect any player are optional. So production costs are mandatory, but if its a red bordered resource cost that affects anyone, you can choose to ignore it. boardgamegeek.com/thread/1705209/official-faq-rules-clarifications I hate this particular rule IMO, I wish they just expanded the text on the cards or something because its annoyingly confusing. (if you google search it there is really far too much discussion and I always have to google it).