The Trans Wizards of Waverly Place Episode

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[@LilySimpson]

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[@Sophie-mv7bd]

Is there something wrong with your microphone?

[@marocat4749]

I am pretty sure there were some issues, either legal or other that stopped the actor from being there. So like the pretty cool xena episode where she is in callistos body, thart was done very well. I think thats why? or because he was a child actor?. Not that it couldnt have been done better, like when xena was in calistos body for some episodes. Congrats to the sponsorship

[@catherinedermody4698]

@Lily Simpson I understand that you do LGBTQ+ in all the works of media. If you are interested, you could check out historical/famous figures such as Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing, Hans Christian Anderson, George Takei, Lil Nas X, Sappho Of Lesbos, Freddie Mercury and Kevin Conroy etc. There's even a music genre known as "queercore" it's a interesting subject worth checking out. You have a good year.

[@jsostick]

Sorry but you should have made your research about this, specially since it is very well known they did this because the actor of max was recording a movie while these episodes so they made this change until he was available. I recommend doing research in these facts since they are the primary reason why they did these choices in the first place and you should judge the episodes based on that base understanding

[@murderoftrees]

@@jsostick….7:16

[@LaPrincipessaNuova]

When Max gets turned into a girl, his girl body was literally young enough they could have just cut his hair and put him in boy clothes and then he would just be younger.

[@rachelh2816]

or they could've just botched the spell to make him younger and avoid the genderswap awkardness alltogether. He could still milk the cuteness but not have the dysphoria aspect.

[@lilpetz500]

Honestly, it's kind of a testament to how unaware Disney writing is of gender complexities beyond that basic binary model a lot of people stop at. Like, there is a much more logical and less stressful for everyone solution, but Disney would have to admit that before puberty we're all pretty much just wearing gender identifiers. And they'd also have the unfortunate issue of Max just appearing younger and uh...the topic of a child's genitals assumedly being an elephant in the room Disney and everyone would and should be super uncomfortable to write a script around. So like the other commentor said, literally just...accidentally make Max younger. Idk, if they're going to do gender commentary, maybe his mental identity also shifts to being feminine too, and the complication comes from a person knowing they're brain is under the influence of a spell, and how the spell itself may make it uncomfortable to reverse? Now that's a complex mental narrative to explore. Basically, Disney is not equipped for gender spectrum commentary 😅

[@Gxylord]

​@@lilpetz500all they'd need to do is talk to trans people and psychologists specialising in gender dysphoria tbh, the same way they research cultures for films that are not white american oriented and the same way cis people who write good trans narratives write those narratives. God, I'd love to see a trans Disney princess but god knows that won't happen until it's trendy to support our community instead of the least controversial route being to make fun of us and deny our realities, instead believing the fantasy that we're all predators or deviants or both :/

[@foxboyuwu]

as a trans man the way max gets treated while gender swapped hits a little too close to home, oof

[@bobtheball5384]

I grew up watching this show, didn't know I was guy until I was a teen but MAN, if you could only imagine how frustrated I was seeing how they treated Max when this happened, it genuinely made me upset, but I chalked it up to me being upset that his family treated him unfairly just cause he was a girl now (Which...Yeah a big part of that is that) but just rewatching this vid, punches me in the gut in realization that they were extra about his gender

[@corenisveryconfused]

Even as a kid it did

[@thulium_3169]

yea same :(

[@jenm1]

Just watching it on screen is genuinely sickening I can't imagine living it I'm sorry man

[@potatolord4232]

saame, I've been like cringing at every clip lol

[@evelienheerens2879]

I think charlie called Max she/her to bully them and later calls them he/him to invalidate their relationship with their dad. So, in both cases she's doing it in order to be a shitty person.

[@wildstarfish3786]

Wait did you just call alex charlie?

[@Thalvia]

@@wildstarfish3786 the worst part is i forgot what her name was in the show and believed it was charlie for a min

[@a1yssum]

I remember when Good Luck Charlie first came out, my sister and I boycotted it because we believed they were replacing Wizards with a Juliet (Bridget Mendler's character in Wizards) spinoff.

[@erdood3235]

​@@a1yssum who's Juliet?

[@saukeism]

@@erdood3235Justins Vampire girlfriend in a later season

[@Kamarovsky_KCM]

Uncle Kelbo being Shakira not mentioned. Gravely disappointed, Lily.

[@aidanclark196]

I was always confused, does he impersonate Shakira or did he literally invent the identity to be a popstar? Both have just wild implications

[@Kamarovsky_KCM]

@@aidanclark196 No yeah he was literally THE Shakira. So likely spent a big part of his life as her.

[@axonaxonaxon]

I was gonna comment this too! LOL

[@TheWayOfTheWott]

​@@aidanclark196 The latter. Shakira is canonically the invention of Kelbo in the Wizards universe.

[@lilpetz500]

In a way, did South Park steal the Lorde arc from WOWP? 👀

[@Diamondgamervideos]

Max had to have a "girl name" while Alex is literally called Alex

[@bnashee]

its weird because max is literally already a unisex name.

[@daniel.franco]

​@@bnasheeIt is? What would it be short for?

[@alexhails]

@@daniel.francomaxine? same as the show. nowadays girls are named anything but traditionally max would have been short for maxine (for a girl).

[@gryficowa]

@@bnashee In Poland it is a male name, but in the USA it is unisex

[@alexhails]

not sure if they discuss this in the video, i haven’t watched it, but to the outside world they were saying “maxine” was their cousin from nebraska or something. he had to have a girl name which was different than just max because he was pretending to be his little girl cousin. weird plot line but yeah.

[@amarvelousgeek222]

Okay, to explain why Alex is still my favorite Disney Channel Protagonist. Most Disney Channel main characters at the time, especially the girls, were always depicted as "the good girls." Think Teddy from Good Luck Charlie, who was a great student who got into Yale and was always the least likely to get into trouble. But the problem with this? These were sitcoms. They needed antics. So while characters like Teddy did the right thing most of the time, when the plot demanded it, they became terrible people. As an outcast, weird kid, that made those characters significantly less likeable, as they seemed like the performative types of "good kids" that I knew in my real life, the ones who were nice on the surface but would shun you or lie or cheat the minute they thought they could get away with it. Meanwhile there was Alex, the rebel who said things she wasn't supposed to say. Who was deeply flawed, and did bad things constantly. I knew I wasn't supposed to do things she did, but I respected her way more for being authentic. This show is basically the Always Sunny of Disney Channel because the characters are often terrible people who get away with being terrible. But I always liked the heart at the core of the show, where the family fought each other and annoyed each other and yet were always there when it counted. And Alex actually does grow less selfish over the course of the series, all while never losing that authentic, imperfect edge I grew to love. TL;DR: Most Disney Channel protagonists were "good girls" who did bad things the plot excused/ignored making them feel fake. Alex was always a bad person, but she got better over the course of the series and felt more authentic because she didn't hide her flaws.

[@ARCtheCartoonMaster]

So… Maggie Pesky doesn’t count?

[@HauntakuTV]

@@ARCtheCartoonMaster Literally who?

[@bluesnake4626]

And I remember that in the first season they kinda tried to make Alex a standard Disney female protagonist. But the more rebellious aspect of her personality won out and become more prominent as the show went on. But you are right that once her personality settled she just felt more authentic than most other characters on the channel at the time. Zac and Cody was the only one that I feel like matched wizards for me.

[@bluesnake4626]

@@HauntakuTV@HauntakuTV The main character is a mostly forgotten Disney animated show about a fly that only aired for one season in 2005-2006.

[@maddygullotta2551]

"The Always Sunny of Disney Channel" is probably the best way to describe the show. That aspect is always why I enjoyed it so much. (Despite the giant flaws of the show that become especially worse in the later seasons.)

[@chanpost4]

Speaking of the Wizard competition timeline, the joke about the lead child being able to call it early is an election based joke. In America, we have elections on a fixed four year term situation. Lily lives in the United Kingdom where the party in power can can call an election whenever they think they're ahead in the polls and are going to win. It's very rare for a government to fully ride out their term in such a situation. The Wizard Competition, despite being an American show, basically runs on British election rules. They have a deadline for the absolute latest it can happen, but the lead child like a Prime Minister can call it early if they want to.

[@annakilifa331]

Doesn't Lily live in New Zealand? I don't know, I might be wrong, but I thought she wasn't british.

[@haleyzwaal4183]

Could be the same deal there. That's also how it works in Canada. ​@@annakilifa331

[@KingOfGaymes]

Dang, UK elections sound incredibly stupid and useless if they work like that..

[@skunkjo3195]

​@@annakilifa331yeah she lives in NZ, though she does have a British accent so maybe she's got British parents or emigrated here or something

[@Gxylord]

Maybe the area of NZ she's from just has a more neutral Received Pronounciation accent? (that's what her accent is closest to, since there is no One British accent, RP is just one of the most well known ones)

[@sleepyexe1012]

wizardry and transphobia? where have i seen THAT before?

[@marocat4749]

The funny thing is that the series pokes kinda a lot on the , wizard supremacy, themes. Like ther is a hteme of writers adding stuff that shows how meddes up it is?! Granted often as jokes but still. Ok ther definitly is a sunny about wizards being aholes and hella suprematist?!

[@prageruwu69]

wizards of waverly place walked so harry potter could crash and burn (i know harry potter is older)

[@sleepyexe1012]

@@marocat4749 ig it's something about "biologically" having the power to be a wizard. if an advantageous trait is genetically acquired, people with that gene will be seen as better, and people without it will be seen as worse. one things leads to another, and boom, genocide and war. (haha boom, genocide and war)

[@d3adxb0yxwalk1ng]

@@marocat4749how is ur comment edited and still incomprehensible

[@4NeonFun]

​@@d3adxb0yxwalk1ng dyslexic? Big thumbs on mobile? Under the influence? Not native language? Hands not on home row? Phone in a bag? Lots of possibilities really, don't fret. It took a bit of deciphering but it's not impossible, but difficult to make some parts out.

[@kaibaiarrio1299]

As a trans guy, this season made some cracks in my egg tbh. This season was the only season i could ever remember when i thought of the show because, despite not really understanding *why* or *how*, i understood Max's feelings. This would have been super interesting if max was intended to be trans, and it was handled with much more tact.

[@bobtheball5384]

BRO SAME, this season just sticks out to me because of this

[@bluesnake4626]

I think that it had a bit of a similar effect for me but trans fem. Seeing Max get turned into a girl was intising to me in a way that I did not understand at the time or didn't want to fully reflect on yet.

[@TheQueerTailor]

Bro same! This season came out when I was like 14 and it took until 26 for the egg to fully crack

[@mk-aka-morgan8386]

Fun fact- the creator of Annoying Orange is non-binary and has added non-binary characters to the series 🙏

[@HauntakuTV]

Non-bananaery fruits are cool

[@dinosaysrawr]

I eagerly await weird right-wing reactionaries who'll throw a tantrum about sapient fruits not cleaving to the gender binary.

[@NiGHTSIntoMemes]

The LGBTQ+ community has forgiven Annoying Orange

[@dylansharp8471]

Daneboe is non-binary?

[@theblurryblackcat]

Gotta love fruity representation

[@tlblitz42]

The other thing about the snobby wizard at 15:50 talking about Theresa and Harper “want to serve us [and] just don’t know it” is that it’s VERY well-established that wizardkind is racist against and oppressive towards all non-wizards (with regular humans being a sort of lowest of the low), and both women are non-wizards. He’s evidently both a sexist AND a wizard supremacist

[@Aphelion.s_Abyss]

Smh his actor really never got a good role like EVER, huh?

[@ramenbomberdeluxe4958]

Well everyone, we did it, we now have a two nickels on our hands with wizards and transphobia. Shit.

[@UNSCMarine117]

"Ahhhh shit, here we go again"

[@akiraeatsguitarpicks491]

It’s ok we still got the Invisibles

[@prageruwu69]

which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice, right?

[@carimeslockdownedtree2654]

THAT'S how you reference that meme with an original twist. THANK you. pecking kisses ALLLLLL over your face. if only more people were creative with it as well.

[@averagejoey2000]

it's intrinsic that magic is bigoted?

[@darkalicornkingdoom3572]

Wizards of Waverly place is a wordbuilding nightmare, his magic system is unhinged and nonsesicecal

[@sarahthomas8670]

Frr😭😭😭

[@dionysus_adores]

100% why does only one person keep their magic? It doesn't make much sense. Clearly multiple people can have Magic.

[@makeitthrough_]

nonsesicecal indeed

[@makeitthrough_]

nonsesicecal indeed

[@starkiller1289]

Remember when Justin dated a "werewolf" who didn't have anger issues, acted like a dog via car chasing and turned him with a werewolf with a kiss then when Alex dates a werewolf they "can't control their anger", doesn't convert her with a kiss, and straight up ate a guy?

[@brickowls7886]

I gotta start manifesting. Lily Simpson will get a better microphone, Lily Simpson will get a better microphone, Lily Simpson will get a better microphone

[@DragonbIaze052]

Manifesting doesn't do anything. Patreon helps, though.

[@kyrathomas285]

It's just weird because some videos the sound is fine and then some are muffled like this. Love her videos though! Just an observation.

[@brickowls7886]

@@DragonbIaze052 I'm manifesting due to my lack of money

[@averyeml]

@@kyrathomas285maybe it’s whatever type of fabric makes that video’s microphone sock 😂

[@SamJNE122]

@@kyrathomas285 And then in some parts of this video it's fine, and then it's not again.

[@ruleofoz2207]

Last time i was this early, I didn't know i was a woman! Sorry, wanted to make that joke ever since i cracked my egg.

[@neigeepierrot4694]

😂 fabulous timing

[@prageruwu69]

trans people are hilarious

[@twotruckslyrics]

i love making this joke 😊 “last time i was here i was cis !!”

[@AviZ24]

Congratulazioni! 🎈🎊🎉

[@dasseher1467]

[@itrytodraw96]

headcannon after changing back, Theresa still took Max to get his ears pierced

[@proverbialloaf]

Aww 🖤

[@prageruwu69]

ok the boy trapped in a girl line really surprised me, it's such a cliché trans line and pretty specific. i love accidental trans things.

[@MarxistMomentum]

You need to review the Fish Hooks episode, season 1 episode 2, Fish Sleepover Party. It made me so uncomfortable that I cut it off half way through. The way the girls in the episode were talking about the boys dressed as girls was way to reminiscent of how transphobes talk about transgender people.

[@brucesimmons5517]

"Fish Sleepover Party"? What a lazy title.

[@why3994]

God, I just checked out that episode and it's seriously disgusting. Like, the main point of the episode is "oh, you're not a real girl because real girls do (insert generic mysogynistic stereotype)" And then they forcefully make them admit they're not "real girls". Hmm... painfully similar to how terfs force people to detransition. Awful show.

[@fixedfunshow]

"Bea, it's wrong. They think to be a girl all you gotta do is put on a dress." I can picture it.

[@aelektra]

edit to add the disclaimer that i wrote this while at 22:00 in the video, i have not finished watching it yet. feeding the engagement: i watched wizards of waverly place as a kid so obviously i don't remember it very clearly but from what i recall, while alex is often selfish and rude, she doesn't really WANT to be like that. it's a sitcom so obviously she can't change that much, but she does try to fix her mistakes. also justin went from being the uptight foil to alex's chaos to being at least as terrible as her, so they both act and look worse as the series goes on.

[@bluesnake4626]

Alex's charecter is an interesting one. In the beginning she came off as more lazy and slightly michivius that ends up in her making messes that she didn't intend. Then by the half way point her mischievousness became more active maliciousness with their being several story lines that questioned if she was actually just evil. Her character change then kinda infected the rest of the family in how they were written. But with that said I kinda liked the later direction better. It felt like it helped Alex and the show in general stand apart from the other Disney channel shows at the time, with it allowing itself to engage in darker humor.

[@starkiller1289]

@@bluesnake4626 True but it also made Alex unlikeable to barely tolerable so they had to worsen the rest of her family to make her look better in comparison. Justin wrote off his friend as dead immediately after a griffin snatched him while Alex was the one vouching to do something to help. He would have never have left his friend in danger in the earlier seasons plus he was part of a monster hunting squad at the time.

[@neigeepierrot4694]

What I never got about Disney is they tell you to be yourself then expect you to waste your time as a kid watching shows we’re people who look like you being themselves get bully😂

[@DrawciaGleam02]

Oof. That's....quite a statement.

[@neigeepierrot4694]

@@DrawciaGleam02 it is since they imply the message but seem to contradict it

[@2rats]

the message from Disney sounds more like "be the stereotype other people see you as" rather than "yourself". gross. Shame on you, Disney and WoWP writers, SHAME 🏷🏷🏷

[@neigeepierrot4694]

@@2rats I know it’s a messed up message

[@josefagomezschmeisser8356]

Featuring POC and cultural jokes. For real I just found out on the video review of sweet life that Esteban is supposed to be from Perú 🇵🇪??!!? And I felt like 🤡 cuz we laughed at the jokes of an extravagant and quirky far away country that actually was the US writers view/joking on Latinoamérica?? Heck even were a plot line that his family was royalty dethroned and that his country was always at war. Que falta de respeto, y nosotros de niños riéndonos de una caricatura de nosotros mismos. ._.

[@raemystic8854]

I did love this show as a kid, mainly because I think that as a little baby lesbian I had a crush on Alex and didn’t realize it. But in retrospect the show’s writers didn’t give a shit about Max, and the whole Maxine arc really demonstrates that perfectly

[@bluesnake4626]

It really felt like they were desperiate to do something with Max as the show neared its end. First they put him ahead in the competition, but that just ended up putting more focus on Alex and Justin as they tried to catch up. Then they did the Maxine arc, but it still felt like an after thought.

[@Extra-thoughts]

Fun fact, the head writer for the first three seasons has said that he views Alex as bi, and that although he did not put anything beyond minor subtext into the Stevie arc he said if he were to write it today he would try to make it more overt

[@evelienheerens2879]

So...the parents knew that they could have just reported on what happened to Max and gotten it fixed but left it all up to their kids. Great parents, great siblings, nice family.

[@phil6748]

They didn’t care about him when he was boy, they don’t care at all.

[@makeitthrough_]

Megas XLR got canned after two seasons but this garbo ran for four(? Also I say this because Dom Deluise's son is the dad in this show and Coop in Megas)

[@flannerysnotebook]

To answer your question: Alex works because she's SUPPOSED to be just unlikeable enough that we can laugh when bad shit happens to her but also just charming enough that we can root for her when she's being a good person. It's the usual sitcom setup. Same is the case for Justin, it's just he's far more Ross while Alex is more like Joey. Then Max is Phoebe.

[@VincentGravesly]

The scene where Max gets forced into a makeover reminds me a lot of my childhood, in a bad way, lol.

[@Ariento]

haha same at least I was never forced into makeup. pressured, sure, but not forced.

[@amberwingtundrawing776]

Before i watch, im just gonna go off memory rn. Alex is not girly at all so i always thought it was kind of interesting that they made Max do all that "girly" stuff when he got transformed. Alex is mean and rude and gross, shes not exactly the perfect little girl

[@neigeepierrot4694]

Now that I think about it that’s an interesting point since wouldn’t his idea of girlhood been from Alex so he would be the kid version of her

[@akiraeatsguitarpicks491]

Genuinely don’t understand how we went from old powerful wizards and witches who can do whatever they want to greasy teens who can sort of close doors and control the elements

[@ashleyjohnson9651]

probably the satanic panic around dnd and tabletop games, if i had to guess.

[@akiraeatsguitarpicks491]

@@ashleyjohnson9651 isn’t god an old powerful witchzard though

[@greenscythe8940]

Sabrina the teenage witch

[@ashleyjohnson9651]

@@jultejock7185 wizards read books and behold orbs, witches stick various little creatures into cauldrons and have familiars

[@alexdavidson7498]

Old and powerful wizards and witches had to be young at some point.

[@2401M3NDIC4N7BI45]

1:01:00 Lily, A compass doesn't control the magnetic field, The compass responds to it, so turning it would do nothing.

[@thevoid3010]

As a trans girl I definitely remember having certain vibes with this one. Ironic since it’s so much more of a trans guy vibe.

[@sarahthomas8670]

😭😭😭

[@Burningnewt]

Hey I want to say thank you. Your analysis of queer themes and coding in Pokemon helped me understand and become comfortable with my own sense of style and self

[@prozierozie5692]

Awwww i love that!!!!!@

[@kashe7285]

12:53 my brain waves, my neurons, i actually jumped from my seat, my heart began racing, that was genuinely the last thing i expected you to say

[@ARCtheCartoonMaster]

1:18:48 Honestly, I never got why video games are considered an exclusively boyish activity. Like… it’s literally just pressing buttons and making pictures on a screen move. Last time I checked, I’m pretty sure girls had functioning thumbs. And yes, I’m aware of what happened in the 80s that started that concept, don’t @ me thereon. Just do what makes you happy, and ignore the haters.

[@zer0w0lf94]

Was it the 1983 Video Game Crash?

[@ARCtheCartoonMaster]

@@zer0w0lf94 Actually, it was Nintendo choosing to market their games specifically to boys, since they wanted to sell their games in toy stores, which had sections for each gender.

[@slash_dash5076]

I feel like you'd enjoy looking at the supergirl trans episode (there are actually a few episodes) following the transwoman, Dreamer, within the show and it tends to be quite well done, especially considering how her superpowers are passed down the maternal line.

[@Winfieldsworld]

I would be really interested in seeing a video about this!!

[@Marshmallow95506]

The first time I watched this, it wasn't something that really struck my interest. I kind of didn't think about it as positive or negative. But, thinking about it now it's interesting. I used to take Alex's barbs about Maxine as just making fun of Max in general. Cause Max was a character played for laughs in the gross humor way. I certainly thought he was weird. Now it does come across as pretty insensitive to Max and his situation. As a kid, I related a lot with Alex. I wasn't super girly, I had a good relationship with my dad. I had to fight a sister for attention and as the older, I got jealous a lot. It was relatable. So, through the arc, I thought it was pretty reasonable to be fine with Max as an ogre. Much more tolerable for Max and pretty sure he would mind it less. He was like that. It's good to hear a fresh perspective and I definitely need to rewatch.

[@bobtheball5384]

That's how I interpreted the "He's a freak" line, cause yeah Max is a weirdo, within the start of the video, Lily questions how Max even managed to get a wand stuck in him for a year. I don't think that was ever intended to be a "Trans people are freaks" line despite how egh the whole situation with Max being Maxine is.

[@bluesnake4626]

@@bobtheball5384 Ya its not a great line if this is your only context and you are specifically looking for the trans aligory. It was definitely meant to comment on Max's established character of being a random gross goofball. But its not great when used during this ark.

[@bobtheball5384]

@@bluesnake4626 Ditto

[@chanpost4]

Long video, so commenting before full view. Interesting fact that a lot of WoWP fans like myself, headcannoned Alex and Harper as bi. Writers have explained they wrote them as having a really close friendship because Disney wouldn't let them write a Alex x Harper romance into the script. I remember finding the link one time via the TV Tropes article on the series.

[@theshire9173]

I also remember the fans agreeing that Stevie is lesbian and Alex totally had a crush on her

[@SeanHartnett-t8c]

interesting

[@Cherri_Stars]

@@theshire9173 The Stevie plot makes so much more sense if all the girls are queer. Because like... why can't Alex have more than one friend. But if there's sort of an "I thought we were more than that to each other" vibe, it feels a lot more real.

[@music_loving_loser]

Didn’t Hayley Kiyoko play Stevie?

[@alim.9801]

​@@theshire9173 oh one million percent

[@angelicabasque1749]

if the sequel is going to be anything like the original showrunner (Peter Murrieta) intended, it's going to be an extended parallel to growing up in a mixed-race family. We'll be going from wizard/human to /werewolf & /vampire. Not necessarily a defense of the show, but a lot of girls identified with Alex as a flawed protagonist. One of her main traits is "Why work when you have magic?" She's also bisexual. Murrieta really wanted to have Stevie be a canonical love interest, but 2010s Disney would have never allowed that on a kids show.

[@Aphelion.s_Abyss]

Man. You were too optimistic about it

[@Frantasia]

Brief look at riverdale?!?! As a person who‘s watched the entire mess multiple times and dragged other poor, unfortunate souls into is as well, sign me the fuck up

[@jay_vali]

I watched two seasons, wanted to keep going, but when I heard about some of the stuff that happened later on I stopped. Is it true that Riverdale took this weird turn from this almost mystery crime stuff it started with to something that edges on fantasy so hard they even had a cross over with the Netflix Sabrina show?

[@Mskittenlover12]

​@@jay_valiUnfortunately yes 🙃 Last season was just...time travel. Took place in the 1950s. 🙃 I stopped watching mid way through the time jump season. But kept following updates via twitter and watched Alex Meyers' youtube videos.

[@jay_vali]

@@Mskittenlover12 thanks for letting me know. In that case I definitely won't watch the rest. I usually like fantasy stuff, but pushing something that was not planmed as fantasy into that genre feels so wrong for me. I don't like it when writers take in a twist that wasn't originally planned and force it to fit even tho it normally wouldn't. 😅

[@LuckyLose-jv1iq]

that striped shirt is incredibly flattering on you!

[@uyuyuyuya]

right? I was thinking that Lily looks more lovely than usual with that outfit

[@prageruwu69]

flannel suits her

[@ironickomedakin]

agreed!!

[@theaverageone4415]

I think Alex's appeal as a protagonist is just how different from the other Disney protags she was. She was edgy enough to feel more real and fleshed out than some of the others who can come off as overwhelmingly artificially positive to a jaded child or preteen.

[@crowbuncle5986]

I watched this show all the time as a kid, it was literally my favourite show. When I saw this pop up in my subscription feed I was like "what could that be about???? Maxine maybe??? I don't remember much about that arc but I remember max still identified as a guy which is super easy set up for a trans metaphor, so it can't be that bad, right?" And oh my god. I cannot believe how terribly it handled that, AND that I had no memory of it. My only memory of the last episode was the shot of max singing in "girls clothes" and I think that's all I remembered because that's literally all that happened in that episode. Great work on this video!!! Was super engaged, and really enjoyed watching it!

[@bluesnake4626]

My main memory of it was that I was upset that it seemed to get resolved super fast and that max didn't actually get a big spot light for most of the episodes where he was Maxine. But in hindsight me wanting it to last longer was probably just me projecting.

[@louiswendlander9083]

"You're watching the Disney channel and this show fucking sucks" killed me. I love all your videos so much!

[@Mecharnie_Dobbs]

49:00 Max is often sidelined because he's usually played by someone who child-labour laws prevent from featuring too heavily.

[@globblin1734]

Watched this show as a kid and at the time the Maxine storyline made me uncomfortable and I didn’t know why. I was not an especially girly girl and it bothered me they wouldn’t just let Max do what he liked lol.

[@austinobambino1360]

I loved this show as a kid! Can't wait to see how questionable more of my favorite childhood media was lmao

[@austinobambino1360]

As a kid, I 100% understood that Alex and Justin were assholes, and explicitly NOT role models lol

[@bobtheball5384]

@@austinobambino1360 Same here! It was like Ed, Edd, and Eddy in that aspect for me, or Catdog with the mean humor, and or any show with questionable protagonist. That's why I don't mind *too* much, just wish they allowed Max not to be just the idiot of the family and actually gave him some autonomy as well, kinda sucked imo cause he has no room to be an actual character.

[@akrzton1]

Who in here thinks that this show is like the boy band 98 Degrees or that 98 Degrees is like this show rather? This show comes to mind whenever I hear their music.

[@neigeepierrot4694]

@@bobtheball5384 me too

[@neigeepierrot4694]

@@austinobambino1360 true but it’s weird how they never let you accept that they weren’t or that you might not agree with them

[@ErieRosewood]

hearing "angels in a nightclub in la" immediately gave me lucifer flashbacks so im so glad you included that clip, ill need to rewatch it soon.

[@lop0159]

congrats on that sponsor! Ground news is legitimatly really cool, im not being held hostage in lily's basement i promise ground news is really cool

[@D-Dae]

I am firmly of the belief that the whole 'turned into a girl' subplot was just filler because the actor was going to be unavailable for filming, and that the show had no plans on stopping production just because, well, "why let that get in the way of churning out episodes"?

[@proverbialloaf]

Exactly. Maybe voice changes from puberty, maybe filming a movie (he was in that one about a hotel for dogs?)? Either way I agree it wasn’t handled the best.

[@SiRenfield]

I literally forgot that plot point happened until I clicked on this video. I feel like a sleep agent that just heard the code phrase! Also I’m 90% convinced that the reason this happened out of universe was so that his actor could record his lines for the movie Rio judging by the timing of things, even as a kid I assumed that was the reason

[@proverbialloaf]

This is how I learned Jake T. Austin is in Rio.

[@SiRenfield]

@@proverbialloafThen again a lot of other people down here also pointed out The Fosters so that also tracks

[@JaiaV]

"Looks like you're going to be stuck watching this for at least another hour." Oh, please, no, I couldn't possibly. \s

[@wildstarfish3786]

32:10 it's unclear if the morph magic would work because of the double spell thing

[@jsostick]

Besides of the meta reason

[@allyberg2792]

I always loved Alex’s character because her snarky attitude was just refreshing. As someone who once lived (and failed to live) as a cis teen girl I just related more to her rebellious side

[@Tommedian]

The “Just a beaver” line has lived rent free in my head since I was a child

[@aidenl8784]

I’m a trans guy and I didn’t realize why I related so hard to Maxine until like this video lmao

[@TheLivingSeven]

"I'm not doing another Harry Potter video" The dogwater WB show looming on the horizon takes down the Harry Potter poster and replaces it with its own face but also the face looks and sounds like John Cena.

[@frogurtcremebrulee5252]

Off topic, but the actor who played Max, Jake T. Austin, played Jesus in the show The Fosters. The Fosters is a show about two moms raising adopted, biological, and fostered children and is one of the best shows I’ve ever seen. Anyways, great video Lily. I hope you’re doing well :)

[@gamingn6451]

1:01:26 I never ever questioned the moral compass in this episode and all those implications because it was just the Caring Meter to me as a kid from Care Bears, lol. Same sorta concept - A universal tell of the world's quantity of goodness that, by all accounts, could simply just be vulnerable sitting there like that, but usually acts autonomously (and when it falters, the institution crumbles).

[@marocat4749]

Ok its really disrespectful they had to change maxes name, as max, is an unisex name. Like dark angels max, is a woman, and a good series, thats underrated, surprrising loaded with stars and very mutant as minority in a post 9/11 paranoia vibe, before 9/11, with a badass wheelchair representation, even a lesbian characterthats cool. And in hinbdsight many catgirl jokes. Anyways why not call maxes alter maxes cousin who confusingly is also called max. And why is , ok it doesnt matter , justin cheating to beat up max petty sucks, he deserves that.

[@rodo1252]

You might be the only person on the internet with too much punctuation.

[@Fnukysknuk]

It's bc nobody else knows about magic and it would've been weird to have your son max disappear and be replaced by your niece.... Also max. Tbf they should've just had a different name altogether to avoid suspicion, but you see why they choose Maxine in the first place when max introduces himself as "max" and Justin has to cover for him. It was very quick and thoughtless and then they had to just stick with it.

[@realestsienna]

what are you talking abt, literally how is that disrespectful?😭 it’s pretty obvious how they did it

[@gryficowa]

@@Fnukysknuk I mean, a niece could have the same name, hello, many children are named after their parents or grandparents, so they could say that their aunt/uncle liked their son's name and named their daughter that

[@Fnukysknuk]

@@gryficowa if it's a cultural thing maybe, a lot of people are also touchy with names hello? None of my cousins have my name and my name isn't uncommon.

[@princembat]

look, as much as i love wizards of waverly place, logic and making sense was NEVER its strong suit. every rule it makes up is as fragile as a house of cards also its irrelevant to the video but its still wild that they killed a teenager on screen. i think about it so much

[@proverbialloaf]

Wait WHAT why can’t I remember which teenaged character you’re talking about? In WoWP?

[@princembat]

@@proverbialloaf stevie lol, it wasnt the most graphic death, but she did die. like she turned to stone and fell over into a million pieces and they acted like it was a good thing

[@jenm1]

Max is so heavily abused by the older siblings just because he's perceived as dumb :(

[@proverbialloaf]

Yes! It was really great to see him start to shine when Tutor gave him wizarding lessons. I was so pissed at Justin and Alex for making him fail his exam by sabotaging him. Max definitely didn’t get as much focus as the other two did…and he ended up getting the sub shop instead of powers like J & A were BOTH somehow able to keep?? I think his character had a (small) aspect of being creative in a weird roundabout way, with inventions for pranks in some later episodes, so I could believe he’d revamp the shop and make it more successful and more of his own. But idk, it feels like a lot of “hopefully”s to get Max to a happy ending. :-(

[@robertkovarna8294]

Question. if Alex is mad because she isn't the little girl due to magicing Max into being one, why doesn't she just... magic herself into being one? Even if we go with no trans stuff, couldn't she do that with magic? And if she would find it weird to do to herself, then why did she think doing so to Max was a good idea?

[@sixfeetundertheradar6080]

So their dynamic is that whenever one is ahead in the wizard training/skill the other two tend to bond over not be the best. So it’s not always Max in the hot seat

[@bluesnake4626]

Ya, usualy it was Alex and Max ragging on Justin for being a trihard.

[@starkiller1289]

@@bluesnake4626 I don't even think it was him for being a tryhard he was just a rules stickler. He had moments when he loosened up a bit.

[@bluesnake4626]

@@starkiller1289Oh ya definetly, but thats the kind of thing Alex and Max would say to get under his skin.

[@xGalladeLuigix]

Max losing his wand.... inside his body.... is definitely a writing choice for a show directed at teens LMAO

[@icecreamchick45]

honestly, would love to see you ranting about wizards of waverly place. i feel like it would be really fun. i personally love wowp, but i personally was always fine with the idea that everyone on the show is a bad person at the very least it differeciated the show with the other shows at the time

[@AbsolXGuardian]

Wizards of Waverly place was one of the shows that caused my mom to ban me from watching disney live action sitcoms. She sat down to watch some episodes with me and was like "everyone is mean all the time, this isn't good". And given I was younger than eight at the time, you're still learning how people work at that age and she didn't have time to turn every episode into a teachable monent.

[@maddiemiller7548]

When I watched this as a kid, I was always so confused on why Max hated being a girl. “Who wouldn’t want the chance to be a girl?” I wonder what little nine year old me might have been suppressing 🙃🙃🙃

[@kmjc1213]

I really don't know what the writers were thinking with Justin's character at this point in the show. At the beginning he was the responsible sibling who was there to counteract Alex's hijinks, but by the end he was just as reckless and selfish as she was.

[@wildstarfish3786]

I would've thought you'd have done the episode where it was revealed that shakira was thier trans aunt (or at least thier possibly eggy uncle kelbo)

[@vainpiers]

It is strange thinking you're the only daughter and then your sibling is like "sike secret sister". Cos you have to let go of the feeling special because you're the only girl, because you're not anymore. It changes the status quo which you have to get used to. however, I've always been close to my sister and now I can give her my old clothes. So I guess I can kind of relate to having those ugly feelings.

[@The_Skrongler]

Yeah, the unintentional trans male coding here overwhelming. It's uncomfortably familiar for me to watch Max's family react to his predicament with complete apathy towards his distress and gleeful attempts to coercively socialize him into femininity. Even the earings thing is familiar. It's clear that Max feels like he's betrayed himself somehow just by liking an innoccous part of a performance that he was coerced into...and yeah it was like that sometimes. Obviously we as adults understand that boys can wear earings, but that kind of stuff is really hard to process when you're a young boy being abused by relatives who want you to be their little girl.

[@FuzzballStudios]

Also, did they not have the resources to cast a girl who was the same age as Max’s actor was? Or were they such cheapskates that they just had to pull from their Disney contract pool?

[@HopeGardner3amed]

She was a pretty big child star at the time.

[@ChrissieBear]

Lily out here pushing quality content out at lightning pace.

[@donalddarko5807]

The Wayans Brothers have a sitcom from the 90s with a trans character. The set up is one of the characters from the show used to be in band with his old buddies and they get the band back together only now one of them is a woman. Its one if those weird ones where they do transphobic jokes but the trans character themselves is confident and is still included in the Bands comback.

[@SirJonathonDanielGregorySrVthe]

Me, every time I click on a new video: What the fuck Lily? An hour and a half? Now I gotta sit through an episode of Fantasy High's worth of content that isn't the Fantasy High I'm meant to be catching up on.

[@staceynainlab888]

I don't know why the writers didn't use fairies instead of angels. fairies are commonly used in stories as an entity similar to angels: magical do-gooders that help people and inspire people to do good deeds and follow a code of ethics, without the pesky questions of gif they're working for a God

[@donaldduck73]

Probably because back in the day fairies were to fucking overplayed Only third to werewolves and vampires Like holy fuck so many media involved those three in 2000's

[@proverbialloaf]

@@donaldduck73Also, by this point in the series WoWP had already featured a fairy, Flutter, a fairy-for-hire who took a lot of joy in going off script and causing chaos. It was a fun spin on the trope. They could have probably written around that instance to explain that the fairies at the agency went astray from their do-good calling, or got kicked out or something.

[@TheKewlPerson]

Alex is a good protagonist bc she's not a good person. In an "It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia" kind of way. Sometimes she learns and pays the price, and sometimes she doesn't but it makes it entertaining regardless.

[@myriahkeays3846]

Yeah despite Alex being the protagonist, I don’t think we’re meant to like her or at least not meant to think she’s a good person. Like, she’s clearly extremely immature and an asshole teenager. I don’t think the show wants us to like her, for me she was always compelling because she was unlikable

[@dolfuny]

I think she is supposed to be likable but you're not necessarily supposed to agree with her all the time. The show wouldn't work if people didn't like watching the main characters

[@FrogsForBreakfast]

In It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, the characters are bad people on purpose. We're not supposed to approve of their actions and it's fun to watch. It's not something one would expect from a Disney sitcom.

[@myriahkeays3846]

@@FrogsForBreakfast on the contrary I feel like a lot of the disney channel sitcoms I watched had mc's who were definitely supposed to be viewed as assholes

[@rotting_spider]

will you ever look at shezow? it's a cartoon about a boy who's superhero persona is a girl and he turns into that, looks like a lot of genderswap potential anyways, great video as always!

[@anthonycrowley2264]

i literally just suggested the same show for them to cover in another comment lol

[@l.s.9775]

Up

[@DesertIslandDisk]

I'm only at 22:39 so might be missing something I haven't gotten to yet, but I know season 4 didn't have the original showrunner so the show kinda became a caricature of itself. This came from Jennifer Stone and David DeLuise on their podcast "Wizards of Waverly Pod."

[@proverbialloaf]

Makes sense. As much as I adore Harper and was thrilled to learn, years after it aired, that there was an episode focusing on her in one of those later seasons…it made no sense at all. Was excited for Harper to have her “Cinderella moment” and going into a book can be a fun storyline (as in the earlier episode about Alex’s sketch journal), that later one was a hot mess and not funny! I’m not surprised I’d never seen it as a kid, I assume it wasn’t rerun often.

[@Index_IIIX]

26:43 tbh I think Alex would call max a little freak regardless of his gender situation- to me that reads as just some classic sibling bullying

[@rynbliss]

yo congrats on the ground news sponsorship, ive been using it for a while and its been super useful

[@ArielVHarloff]

I find that thing about the show theorethically having to deal with god existing and picking a lane as to what religion is true very funny as a supernatural fan XD They went with the "yeah the christian god's an asshole (so are pretty much all other gods who make random appearances because that's the kind of show spn was) but organised religion is mostly fine" way of solving that problem. They also sort of replaced god with someone who was hopefully going to be less of an asshole by the end there.

[@kierstenburtz8442]

I think it's really an interesting narrative choice to have Alex be the protagonist of the show because like, she is not a good person. She never was. She has a few redeeming moments in the series but overall she's kind of a piece of shit. If we wanted a more morally good protagonist, I think the option would be Max. That might be controversial because Justin is seen as the goody two shoes, but he's just a lawful neutral imo. He follows the rules to a T but always acts in his own self interest. He takes pride in being a rule follower because he genuinely thinks it makes him better than everyone else. Regardless, Alex is a pretty interesting morally gray protagonist just because she is so selfish. She's chaotic neutral. She'll do anything if she thinks it'll serve her own interest, even if that interest is just entertainment. So she makes for an interesting character to follow. I don't think we're meant to like her as a person, and honestly I kind of wish we saw that more often in fiction.

[@thescispot4780]

This was my trans awakening, looking at it now, I 1000% agree, as a trans fem it was less me looking at it like a guy in a girls body and being a trans masc story and more of me looking at it and being like I wish what happened to max would happen to me, it would have been so much easier then how hard transitioning is, however your perception of this story line is way more accurate then my 11 year old perception

[@pandadorable82]

i would love for you to make a video about the episode “She’s a Man, Baby, a Man!” from Charmed! It’s ripe with transphobia and gender swap tropes

[@HopeGardner3amed]

Max's actor was filming a movie and the character had to be recast temporarily.

[@conlon4332]

I don't consider American children's media such as this appropriate for children under at least 12, it has so much problematic stuff that they need to be of an age where they're able to question it, and not just absorb it like this is the correct way to view the world. And I think if you do show it to kids as young as 12, you should watch it with them and discus it with them.

[@didik3327]

IVE BEEN LOOKING FORWARD TO THIS FOR SO LONG!!!! thank you as always lily for constantly devouring with your content!!

[@thetimeproject7868]

Interesting video. I remember really liking this show as a kid and I was planning on rewatching it. Maybe it was really bad lmao, but I do remember the earlier seasons being a fair bit better than Season 4, which I do remember being pretty bad. The Maxine storyline was pretty damn terrible, and I feel it could’ve been better if it tapped into how Max feels left out of his siblings’ dynamic, as if his needs aren’t really considered. Instead they just do a bunch of cheap jokes about it and never explore anything substantial. And yeah it does make out the other characters as being awful. Alex and Justin outright refuse to change him back most of the time and his parents constantly force him to do things he doesn’t want. In retrospect, it’s very awkward and uncomfortable. I remember Max being a girl is never brought up again for the rest of the fourth season, which in this case might be for the best.

[@brucesimmons5517]

Unrelated to the transphobia, but did anyone else have the same frustration that they didn't use enough magic in this magic show

[@realestsienna]

what…. every episode they used magic, what are you talking abt ☠️

[@starkiller1289]

@@realestsienna I think it's that the magic they used was mundane and all the cool stuff happens offscreen like Justin's experience in the monster fighting group. Plus very very few magical threats actually happen to them. Vampires, one mummy incident and the angel thing was about it.

[@proverbialloaf]

⁠@@starkiller1289the magic conflicts definitely felt ramped up in the later seasons (vampires and angels as you mentioned, zombies in an apartment complex), due to…more money? More CGI/FX stuff? Not trying to be sarcastic, just positing.

[@anthonycrowley2264]

if you haven't done it already, you should do the cartoon SheZow; it's literally one big "omg the *boy* becomes a *girl superhero* lolol!" joke from what i've seen

[@kardonis8937]

Really surprised you didn't point out that the creator of The Annoying Orange is trans. But hey, now you know!

[@LilySimpson]

I did know but thats been saved for its own video, can't spoil stuff

[@ThrowingCrunchy]

omg Lily, that jacket is incredible! also, you do great work, really appreciate your analysis and delivery style!

[@marshallmclovin4713]

I’ve been rewatching “dead like me” recently and came across a trans episode (season 2 episode 4) I didn’t know if that show was on your radar yet

[@antman2443]

Tbf, Justin was a pretty chill guy in the first couple of seasons from what I remember... then season 3 decided to assassinate everyone's characters.

[@wolfydawolf1296]

I wish I remembered anything about Alex to feed your engagement either defending her or admitting I shouldn't but the only character I remember in any detail is Harper and that's just her actor's voice and that I think she liked to do elaborate craftwork. She was my favorite character when I watched this show but that was a long time ago

[@proverbialloaf]

Oh, absolutely. I admired the spunk of Alex but I always knew I was more of a Harper. 😂 And that’s not a bad thing! She can be a lil quirky, energetic, crafty (as in literally crafting, lol), but she was feisty too sometimes and a fierce friend. Much love for Harper!

[@jamesmoyner7499]

The only reason this story arc was even done was because the actor Jake T. Austin was in a movie and to make up for his absence they made this happen.

[@ColaKitty9595]

Never stop calling this out. It's great listening while I do my makeup

[@Sparrowlicious-01]

You mean, looking at Riverdale as in it disregarding that Jughead is aromantic and asexual? That aphobia is f-ed up ??

[@stephysteph8558]

Since Lily asked for recs near the end of this vid, I think Ugly Betty would be an interesting show to review form a trans representation perspective, as there's a recurring trans character in the first two seasons. I only watched the show (most of the first two seasons) recently but I was surprised at the change in perceptions of trans people since the early 2000s. My impression was casual transphobia was a lot more socially acceptable, but the idea of a someone transitioning wasn't as fraught as it (sadly) is now.

[@liittlemiissd]

The original series briefly touched on gender swap magic, but in the reboot i wonder if they would ever touch that, I mean trans wizards, how would that work? Could be cool to explore.