The True Story of “Scarborough Fair” and "The Elfin Knight" - with 30 historical recordings

[@TheFolkRevivalProject]

IMPORTANT UPDATE I have been in contact with Peggy Seeger, who told be what she knew about her husband collecting the song: "As I understood it from Ewan, his aunt Maggie sang it. Ewan sang it to Judy Collins and then it was picked up by Paul Simon. That’s the best I can do. It’s possible that he also hear Mark Anderson sing it but I don’t remember Ewan ever mentioning such a person. Kind regards, Peggy" This is very strange. Is it possible that it was a simple editing/printing error that meant Mark Anderson's name became attached to the song instead of that of Ewan MacColl's aunt Maggie Logan? The Singing Island includes a song belonging to Ewan's Scottish(?) aunt Maggie (Margaret Logan) called "Friendless Mary". I wonder if Scarborough Fair was accidentally ascribed to Mark Anderson instead, and nobody ever noticed or cared... Then there's the fact that she missed Martin Carthy out all together, claiming Judy Collins taught it to Paul Simon... Judy Collins never sang the song that we know of. Does she mean Shirley Collins? Maybe that suggests she is simply confused about the whole thing... We have no way of knowing. On one hand, this particular version of Scarborough Fair makes sense to have come from Yorkshire, not Scotland, due to similarities with other melodies collected in the region (9:21, 9:44). On the other hand, Peggy's explanation would explain why Anderson never sang the song to Alan Lomax and why it seems so out of place in his repertoire (28:21). It seems like it's more of a mystery now than it was before... --------- If you enjoyed the video, make sure you're subscribed to my channel so you don't miss the next one! Here's a series which compares traditional recordings and popular versions of the same songs: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qIKvZ4FpmK56eq8 Here's a link to my "Folk on Film" playlist, a collection of authentic performances of traditional music captured on film: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jYK5l4OOe8yCZ5I

[@tehee-]

The only person who would be verifiable would’ve been Ewan himself. I do not think Peggy is necessarily the knowledgeable source of history her husband was, even though she provided him instrumental accompaniment for many years. Martin Carthy is much more verifiable because of the extant 1965 recording, much more so the 1966 folk club BBC recording. Paul learned it entirely from Martin- no Collins girl has ever been mentioned by Paul Simon.

[@TheFolkRevivalProject]

@@tehee- I agree! However, Martin Carthy simply learnt it from a book so I doubt he'd be able to provide any insight about Mark Anderson.

[@nicolealejandro5733]

Heard it first on an anime (WorldEnd); fell in love on the first listen, searched for it and became heavily invested to know about it. Instead of listening in my class, I stumbled upon your video and now I wanted to conduct heavy research about it, and I don't know how I'll get out of this rabbit hole. Thank you for sharing this well-detailed video!

[@TheFolkRevivalProject]

Liking certain songs and getting stuck in rabbit holes is how I ended up making these videos! Thanks for watching and I'm glad you appreciate my work!

[@uexkeru]

The melody also appears in Touhou: Subterranean Animism stage 5 (Lullaby of Deserted Hell), and intro notes to Decretum for Madoka Magica

[@Artasim]

I thank you! Studied this video with pauses about hour and a half. With love and appreciation!

[@geoffwales8646]

Wow, just wow. What an incredible effort! I studied Medieval Lit and Musicology decades ago. This comprehensive project shows just how quickly versions can come into being, and of course in ages past where there was often no text or written music, the different versions often share only bits and pieces in common. It also shows how easily dialects can be formed.

[@abdelali9279]

This is what I do instead of sleeping, such a rabbit hole I got into. I don't take this video as a way do denigrate the 20th century pop versions, more like an interesting story about the evolution of an literary work that for the nature it was mostly passed through, verbally, shows how it can be changed and evolved depending on culture and local variations of the same language, and how one version from a certain place ended up influencing other versions even though it can be argued it was the origin place, this was just fascinating, and I will still over the Simon & Garfunkel version, well the covers based on it mostly because I think it is like this really colourful and fascinating piece of literary culture, especially from someone who's native language is not English. My mother is an English teacher and she will most definitely love this. Sadly this video won't be that mainstream because is not called "The Scarborough Fair iceberg" and has random person's overacted shock face with a red arrow pointing at Simon and Garfunkel in the thumbnail.

[@tljtimpani]

One extra possible factor: from the mid nineteenth century Scarborough would regularly recruit teams of temporary herring gutters from Scotland, mostly women. They undoubtedly sang while they worked. Those women, regular in their annual seasonal working in Scarborough, may well be influential in relocating a song from Scotland and the far north of England to Scarborough.

[@reneedirr9911]

A+, A+, A+ Dear Folk Reviver, You've taught me musical things I didn't know, and am glad to know: Scarborough Fair, founded by King Henry III in Scarborough, England in A. D. 1253, the song spun off from the fair and has had a life for at least 300 years (from printed lyrics in 1670), then 2 young, Jewish men in Queens, New York catapult it to world prominence with the sweetness & smoothness of Art & Paul's voices and guitarwork, making it a #11 Hit on American Radio, with their arrangement. Can we do that with other folk songs? I don't see why not. Long Live Folk Music! Great job! Thank you for your diligent search. ~ Renee, in the Foothills of the Great Smoky Mountains, Tennessee, USA.

[@lostbounty5380]

Thank you for putting all of this together. I don't have any musical knowledge to add to the history, but I would like to share my theory on why this song has stood the test of time. It is because of certain versions of lyrics. I believe the first time the herbs were mentioned was probably around the time of the second bubonic plague, the Great Plague of 1665 - 1666 in England. Sage, Rosemary, and Tyme were believed to fight off the Black Death at that time and the smells of the dead. If this version was written then, it may have been a common known form of symbolism or figuative phrase that if someone asks for those herbs; like a parcel of Sage, Rosemary, and Tyme, that they have bubonic plague. So if the singer asks someone if they are going to Scarborough fair and mentions these herbs, hes dying from the plague. He asks the person to relay an impossible task to his true love in Scarborough, so she will have something to keep her mind busy and give her a shred of hope that they will reunite one day, so she doesn't have to accept their true love is lost. He asks the messenger to request of her to give him an equal task, so he doesn't have to face the inevitable fact that they will never have their true love again. If she is giving the task to the messenger, and not her true love in person, maybe she is dying as well or at least understands his situation, and wants to extend the same courtesy. I believe the point of the original song had to have had a deep powerful meaning, or it wouldn't have been passed down and preserved for so long. I think the overall point of the song was a powerfull message: love lost, and that life can be neutral to fairness and mercy. The song seems to have been corrupted into many versions that present a different point. This was probably after people weren't old enough to remember the Great Plague and the significance of those herbs. Life has a way of carrying important messages in popular works of art that stand the test of time. IMO, any alternative meaning of the lyrics that would make the point of the song trivial, petty, or less powerful, would have probably never been strong enough to be a starting point to propagate the song in so many ways. Also is the fact that the herbs were mentioned in the first place. To people who lived outside of the 1660s timeline, these herbs seem like a nonsense line in the song, but not if you lived during the Great Plague. Thats why the line exists in the song in the first place.

[@TheFolkRevivalProject]

Thanks for watching! I've heard similar ideas before, but (as you will see in this video), most versions of the song, including the oldest versions, didn't use the herb refrain at all. Even those which do use the herb refrain usually use different herbs in different orders.

[@CharlottaKarotta]

Thank you so much for showing this! I fell into the YT Music Rabbit Hole as I was looking for the second voice of the Simon and Garfunkel version. Now I am stuck for more than 2 hrs here^^. It was very interesting the song developed over the years. I really thought it was a true medieval song like Pastime with good company. But it doesn't seem so. So again: thank you for this video and all the effort to make it!

[@uncomfortabletruth5915]

The historic value, combined with the hypnotic melody of S&G, along with these most ancient lyrics, make this ballot timeless. As timeless as tales of unrequited love.

[@geoffwales8646]

Paul Simon has a copy of the orchestral score for Bridge Over Troubled Water, entitled Like a Pitcher of Water, because the arranger, Ernie Freeman, misheard the title. Shows how quickly and easily things can change, or, should I say, get corrupted. ;-)

[@MrHtoon]

My all time favorite song

[@MJEvermore853]

Thank you so much for all the research that was put into this, it's so impressively detailed and informative. As a lifelong fan of Simon and Garfunkel's version, I'm so very appreciative of all the work that went into this video. 👍👍👍

[@TheFolkRevivalProject]

You're welcome!

[@tljtimpani]

This is sheer gold dust. Many thanks indeed.

[@Kunningstunts]

Thanks so much for creating this video, I really appreciate the time, effort and passion put into this video, to explore the history of our music. I'm only young, born in 2001, but I've recently learnt to play Martin Carthys version on the guitar, and I hope to carry this song into the future with me.

[@MrPaparizla]

Fascinating stuff, I am from Yorkshire not far from Scarborough, and found this very interesting

[@michaelrlevin]

Awesome video. Just came across this out of curiosity about the song.

[@TheFolkRevivalProject]

Thanks! Feel free to have a look at some of my other videos :)

[@IgorAntarov]

Unbelievable. Just today, I've heard this song again, decided that I want to learn more about its meaning and sources. Looking for the context, I stumbled upon this comprehensive video. I got carried on - watched it fully, appreciating the effort put into it. And I was sure the video should've been at least 5 years old (as usually happens to be with any materials you can find with song explanations). But looking at the date - it was uploaded two days ago. Unbelievable! :D Thank you for the effort! Great job. I think I'm going to learn how to play this beautiful song. Your video passed the song further into the future :)

[@TheFolkRevivalProject]

Thanks so much! I really appreciate it! The reason I made the video was because I was searching for information about the song myself, but everything I found was either not very detailed or full of incorrect information. Have a look at my channel and subscribe if you haven't already!

[@miserytake2]

@@TheFolkRevivalProject what do you think are the odds that MacColl composed the tune himself based on the fragment sung to him by Mark Anderson? His version of the melody seems much clearer and melodic than any traditional recording, to me it feels more modern. You suggested he also compiled the lyrics from other sources, he might have ‘finished’ the melody in the same manner. To me it is unbelievable that Anderson’s version of tune was somehow “traditional”, yet no traditional recordings of the exact melody exist, most are far different and that he himself apparently didn’t think much of the song. When to me it is easily one of the most beautiful and simple melodies I have ever heard, one that seems to have achieved world wide popularity quite quickly after the publication of MacColl’s songbook.

[@TheFolkRevivalProject]

@@miserytake2 It seems almost impossible that Mark Anderson did sing the entire song to Ewan MacColl. I would guess that he sang something like the tune we know and MacColl made "improvements". You're right - it's likely he changed the melody as well. I think the two recordings I played at 9:21 and the one at 10:06 show that the famous tune doesn't seem out of place at all (although most people would agree it is "better" than the other tune). I think it's certainly possible that no traditional recordings of the exact melody exist, because no other traditional recordings of most of the other melodies I included in this video exist. However, I do find it quite suspicious that Ewan MacColl didn't record Anderson singing the song. MacColl clearly saw value in the tune, as he recorded himself singing it three times, and used it in his songbooks. What seems more strange, as I said in the video, is that Alan Lomax didn't record Mark Anderson singing it. What are the chances that Mark Anderson simply forgot to perform the several verses long ancient ballad he knew to Alan Lomax, but he remembered to perform this one research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=7266 called "Ting-a-Ling"? Your comment actually just made me think of some evidence that McColl composed the tune himself. If you look at the complete selection of songs that he sang to Alan Lomax (research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-ix.do?ix=recording&id=2457&idType=performerId&sortBy=abc) you'll notice that most are lighthearted songs or ones which were probably far newer. "Scarborough Fair" doesn't really fit with the rest of his songs. It is certainly possible that Ewan MacColl looked at the same tunes I did (at 9:21) and wrote a similar tune, ascribing it to an elderly English folk singer named Mark Anderson who had died a few years prior... Now I'm wondering if Peggy Seeger (now 85 years old) knows the truth.

[@andrewwigglesworth3030]

@@TheFolkRevivalProject I do think that Ewan MacColl reworked/improved whatever tune he got from Mark Anderson. In any case, anything he noted would have been some sort of interpretation anyway. It's such a strong clear melody and to my ear has the fingerprints of MacColl on it so to speak. It could be argued that his reworking may have just been making sense of the tune and making it clearer and consistent for a modern recording and then publication in "The singing Island." But, the melody seems to come from nowhere. Are there any similar settings of "Scarborough Fair"? I'm not aware of them. The tune is an artistic triumph, and I think is certainly the reason for the song's popularity. MacColl's knowledge of Scottish and northern English folk songs seems to root the melody well, though in my view too many slow the song down too much and try for ethereal mawkishness. Most recordings I just cannot stand for this reason, so if I listen to it, it's singers like MacColl and Carthy.

[@TheFolkRevivalProject]

@@andrewwigglesworth3030 I think the only person who may know the truth is Peggy Seeger, MacColl's wife and partner in song collecting, who is currently 86. I wonder what he told her about his experience collecting that song?

[@jcjewell]

Fascinating!

[@bbs1369]

Very interesting and lovely to listen to - thank you very much for this. Especially like the lady signing with a parrot or something singing along in background!

[@user-dl8dn2oi5k]

thanks for this great channel… difficult to get in Tokyo!

[@Okuajub]

great compilation of information! I can understand why it took so long to make. I love seeing the evolution of traditional folk songs.

[@analucrecialinares5948]

Thank you very much for all this information which I totally ignore, just this year I heard the lovely caprice Rosemary and Thyme performed by John Williams on guitar and orquestra. I fell in love with this modern version so lovely, now I know more about the history. Thank you!

[@klanghold1]

Very well made documentation . Thanx

[@TheFolkRevivalProject]

Thanks for watching! Feel free to have a look at my other videos if you're interested in learning about traditional music.

[@sylwianiemiec9230]

Thank you for your work! It's so interesting and I think that even those versions that are not authentic (e.g. by Simon and Garunkel) are enormously valuable as they show love to history of music and our tendency to listen and create stories, to pass, cherish and enjoy them❤Thank you again!

[@parkerklinck263]

another awesome video! good job and I look forward to the next :)

[@jonathanoldbuck3246]

Brilliant research, thank you so much.

[@sarahwhite796]

Thank you for all the work and knowledge put into this video! I once (not seriously, but to pass the time) wanted to collect every recording of every Child Ballad that was available on Spotify, but I gave up when I'd gotten no farther than this ballad, because after Simon & Garfunkel so many people sang it, and so many people sang it S & G's way, that it got boring. All the other variants got squashed down by their version's popularity. I'm a huge S & G fan but that was annoying.

[@Joe-ol5bq]

This is punk as hell. Sick video

[@aonairskies]

how wonderful and useful!

[@kristinagrebenar4984]

Thank you for this

[@jonathaneffemey944]

I am sure I heard a Cecil Sharp recording of the song recorded by a seaman from East Anglia at the start of the 20th century. This was recorded directly onto a 78. The recording may be here. This was on the BBC. It was hauntingly beautiful.

[@TheFolkRevivalProject]

Was it the version at 9:21? Cecil Sharp made very few audio recordings - most of the songs he collected were written down like that one. The most famous traditional singer who was a seaman from East Anglia was Sam Larner. He sang a song called "In Scarborough Town" which isn't a variant of this song but just happens to take place in Scarborough: kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZmXMhHmNfrmmiKs That could be the recording you're thinking of!

[@jonathaneffemey944]

@@TheFolkRevivalProject Thanks so much h for this. It could well be this as it was some time ago I heard this song on BBC Radio 3 I think..

[@milancanak7079]

Great video, thank you

[@sandramorey2529]

I love your look at the connections of Scarboro Fair and The Elfin Knight. Is there a similar connection to "The Gardener's Childe" It also lists all the flowers he will give and she answers back with terrible weather she will give him. A rejection if ever I heard one. It is one of the Child Ballads,

[@TheFolkRevivalProject]

Assuming you mean The Gardener (Child 219), there is definitely a similarity with the courting theme and the plants. However, because the Scarborough Fair plant refrain is separate to the story (i.e. not in most versions of the ballad), I'd be tempted to say there's no connection!

[@greggcoppolo8430]

Wow, just wow!

[@lmi9165]

Hey ! I'm a french girl who's fascinated about this song, thanks for your incredible work !!

[@finosuilleabhain7781]

That makes you a very cool French girl.

[@Hy-Brasil]

this song, captain wedderburn and some other similar themes are my favorites. i love it when they have these impossible tasks in order to "be my true love" lol the same as saying "when pigs fly" i think it's a theme we should bring back. make them earn it! even if it's seemingly impossible (you just need to be clever enough. and oftentimes it's no crime to have high standards! it's better than being trampled by careless narcs.)

[@2011zurich]

Truly excellent. Thank you.

[@TheFolkRevivalProject]

You're welcome!

[@TheDianaJC]

Is this your job? It looks professional. This really inspired me to do this in my country!

[@JerrySings]

This is cool!

[@danteprudente8637]

I do not believe that Elfin knight was s major influence. The similarities are inconsequential. Folk songs (lyric and music) as you well known change within oral tradition. My interest is in the the hidden themes. I truly believe that this song represents a Catholics love and longing for the return of the Catholic faith and Church to England. The Cambric shirt fot instance us a reference to Christ's robe. Older lyrical versions hold religious gleanings. Parsley Sage Rosemary and thyme are medieval herbs associated with the Virgin Mary. Scarborough was an important medieval (Catholic) fair that was marked by Marian feasts. I think this origins concept is well worth further consideration and research.

[@Sanguineus666]

Is there any connection to "Nottingham Fair" / "Nottamun Town"? When I was listening to MacColl's version from 1957 it sounded to me a lot like "Working Class Hero" from Lennon. Lennon was inspired by Dylan, Dylan by MacColl. Do you think there might be some common root to those?

[@THERES_BEES_EVERYWHERE]

bro iun fuckin know how i got here but damn this shit's neat

[@TheHangingWood]

An epic piece of research, much more comprehensive than my own similar video to this. One notable version that could be added to your research is the Owen Branigan version. This version predates the Audrey Coppard version and has a very similar melody to hers so makes me doubt Ewan McColl's origin story of the song. It can be found here kzbin.info/www/bejne/bZnRqZysq5meeKM

[@TheFolkRevivalProject]

Thanks for the feedback. I hadn't heard the Owen Branigan version before I made this video. I've just figured out now that it's the same as the version I included at 9:43! Owen Branigan probably went searching through old books and found that version. As I said at 8:38 and reiterated in the second paragraph at 28:25, Ewan MacColl's story does seem extremely suspicious! Why didn't Mark Anderson sing his version to Alan Lomax? Why didn't Ewan MacColl attempt to record Mark Anderson singing his version?

[@TheHangingWood]

@@TheFolkRevivalProject The 1889 version seems to be the one Brannigan sang, however the mystery remains why he sang it as Widdicomne Fair not Whittingham. Widdicome was a big Medieval Fair in the West Country contemporary to Scarborough Fair while there was no fair as Whittingham. Which would suggest Whittingham Fair may just be a renaming of Widdicome locally because the names sounded similar and Brannigan either found this out or there was still sheet music published under the name Widdicome in Northumbria in his time.

[@TheFolkRevivalProject]

@@TheHangingWood That's a good point about renaming Widdecombe Whittingham! Since there is no record of a fair at Whittingham as you say, it does seem that "Whittingham Fair" was a later version of "Scarborough Fair".

[@andrewwigglesworth3030]

@@TheHangingWood There's also the song "Widdicombe Fair" (ie. uncle Tom Cobley and all) that Brannigan also made a recording of. The simplest explanation I think is that he made the connexion himself and changed the words in "Whittingham Fair."

[@peteratkinson6097]

@@andrewwigglesworth3030 Owen Brannigan did not connect the traditional words of this song to Whittingham. The English local historian David Dippie Dixon (1842 -1929) included them in his book "Whittingham Vale" published in 1895. While the notable medieval fairs in England required a royal charter, local trading occurred in villages throughout the kingdom. Special markets and celebrations would be held on the saint's feast day of the parish church. These attracted travelling players who would adapt their act with local references. St Bartholomew's Church, Whittingham has Anglo Saxon stonework and the incumbent had a pele tower to protect him from border raiders. With 24th August being St Bartholomew's day being at harvest time , it was a popular market with plenty of fresh local produce.

[@celiad6012]

Should the question be not: “Are you going to the fair in Scarborough?” but: “ Are you going to beautiful Scarborough?”. Nowadays there are cover versions in Mandarin, with the title “Are you going to Scarborough Market/Fair?” , when it should be “Fair Scarborough/ 美丽的Scarborough” “Scarborough Fair” 《斯卡布罗集市》or/或者 “Scarborough Fair” 《美丽的斯卡布罗》 And don’t get me started on the American pronunciation of Scarborough!

[@TheFolkRevivalProject]

That's a good point that I have never considered!

[@MarieahM]

🌹

[@yechezkelberlin2887]

In some of the versions “Cambric shirt” sounds like “Cambridge shirt”. Could that be the real meaning of the word?

[@TheFolkRevivalProject]

That's a very interesting idea. I just searched it and according to Wikipedia, the word comes from "Cambrai", an area in France. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambric#:~:text=Cambric%20is%20a%20finely%20woven,dyed%20any%20of%20many%20colors.

[@yechezkelberlin2887]

@@TheFolkRevivalProject Very interesting, thank you!

[@zefallafez]

I always thought it was a camel red shirt

[@timothycampbell495]

Cambric was (is) a very fine-threaded very densely woven (and thus very expensive) linen fabric dating back to medieval period Europe. It was a preferred fabric of the wealthy for the undermost garment, which for men that was the long under tunic over which the rest of the clothing went. This shirt was called a sark in the Scots Lallans language which is why you hear that word in some versions.

[@pedroj.delgado5199]

As it appears in the accounting books of the Catholic Kings Isabel and Fernando of Spain, at the end of XV century, Cambrick or Cambray was one of the best and expensive linen from Cambray (France).

[@davidh8924]

But... Did Parsley Save Rose-Mary in Time? 🤥

[@stiperunac2272]

nice

[@sarahduhay5150]

Classic!

[@godetonter4764]

​@Isaac Newton it's the spices parsley, sage, rosemary, and thyme. The real question is why did someone believe that spices relate to lost love

[@godetonter4764]

some of these people sound tone deaf. The lyrics are there, but the tune most certainly is not. Do all these Irish songs just change words to distinguish themselves apart? They all sound identical

[@godetonter4764]

Robert Nicol has a horrible voice. Allie Long Parker sounds like a 95 year old with emphysema. Simon and Garfunkel may not have written the song, but they definitely made it sound like a song. These other versions were beyond terrible

[@parkerklinck263]

Also my favorite version of all time is this one by Vocal Spectrum and Gas House Gang. It is also one of the best eight-part barbershop arrangements of all time. kzbin.info/www/bejne/d5bJq5mOa6pmq7M

[@pedroj.delgado5199]

Hello. Has the true meaning of this song been revealed? Apparently it has been accepted that it is a challenge between lovers, where it is requested to demonstrate infinite love through the fulfillment of IMPOSSIBLE TASKS. But I think that is not so. I have a theory for the true meaning of this song. Is there any researcher or research institution on these issues that may be interested in it? Thank you.

[@TheFolkRevivalProject]

If you want to find some "true meaning", the best place to look is the older "Elfin Knight" versions of the ballad, (4:26 in this video). In the oldest versions, an elf threatens to abduct a woman who has to perform impossible tasks in order to escape him.

[@pedroj.delgado5199]

@@TheFolkRevivalProject I am sure I have already found the true meaning. Please, may I know the author of the presentation?. There is no name on it. Who has done that research?. I would like to talk with him/her. Anyway, I am going to record a youtube video where I will explain my theory point by point with its argued and reasoned justification so that you can see it. All is full of riddles, nobody is asking for “impossible tasks”. That is only apparent.

[@Chamiogirl]

@TheFolkRevivalProject So interesting and fascinating to hear so many versions from the past and reading your research. I was researching Scarborough Fair as sang it as a child and will be singing a choir arrangement of Scarborough Fair and Sounds of Silence which somehow blends so well together. I love folk music and will certainly be spending more time listening to folk music of any genre.

[@WillowRiverSongMedicine]

I wonder why I can’t read the writing in the video? It’s all fuzzy

[@TheFolkRevivalProject]

Try changing the video quality by clicking the cog in the bottom right corner.

[@user-ig2fu9fe6m]

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