The TRUTH about Max Verstappen's place in F1 History

Following the completion of his 4th world championship in Las Vegas, I talk about how this might well of been Max Verstappen's best championship win and look at his place amongst the very best in this sport
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Welcome to the BaxtyB F1 Channel!
Enjoy Video Essays, Tierlists, Race Reviews and MORE!
Want to see more of me? Find me here?
BaxtyB Gaming: / @baxtybgaming
Twitter: / baxtyb
Twitch: / baxtyb
Threads: www.threads.ne...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SHIFTING HAPPENS
/ @shifthappens-z2s

[@baxtybf1]

Great to be back! And I can't wait to heat from you

[@JayQ2k]

First thought? Stop using click-baity titles...replace "The TRUTH" (whatever that is) with My thoughts. Certainly since in the video you reiterated that Lewis is your guy. Also...what do you rate? Titles over talent? Competition? Only when setting these metrics you can at least have a debate where you're coming from...people might not agree, but like this it's just hollowness.

[@beefsandwich4169]

"When that Red Bull hasn't been to his liking he hasn't been able to get the job done" falls kinda flat when from Miami (where he last had the best car) until now he has extended his championship lead.

[@zierka13]

Add to that the fact that Max is never the type to cruise and be satisfied even if he thinks the car is to his liking. He puts the pressure unto his own team to improve the car always so he is never satisfied even during his 2023 season.

[@baxtybf1]

@@beefsandwich4169 I did acknowledge why he did that. Because the others kept taking points off each other. And when I said job done, I meant winning races

[@beefsandwich4169]

@@baxtybf1 if someone was constantly winning races we would be arguing that they have the best car though? The entire point of winning a championship in a 3rd best car is that you are consistently taking the maximum points you can. And he did win Brazil.

[@baxtybf1]

@@beefsandwich4169 But when he won 7 of first 9 races, did he not have the best car? Or at least the 2nd best car and even then it was close. He has won 1 race since it was the 3rd best car and super time analysis shows that the Red Bull is still the fastest car across the season.

[@Rob2]

I expect that when in 2025 there will be 6 drivers competing for the championship (2 McLaren, 2 Ferrari, 1 Mercedes and 1 Red Bull), and they are alternately winning races similar to the 2024 situation, Max still has a good chance of winning it because he will have good average results in the races he is not winning.

[@CliffdeZoete]

Right now he is number 2 behind Schumi. He's already shown way more than Lewis ever has. If he wins next year he's 1.

[@kondjedes4866]

Clearly Hamilton is your favorite driver. George Russel is proving that Hamilton can never be #1. Unbiased ranking at the moment: 1 Schumacher 2 Verstappen 3 Hamilton 4 Senna 5 Prost

[@Draconianoverlord55]

😂😂😂😂😂😂 Hamilton is almost 40 you muppet, and let's see if an old Lewis isn't beating you overrated "goat" next year Senna's ghost is faster than him. People like Niki laude and co had so much more competition and still managed to win multiple titles when F1 was a fatal ordeal, Verstappen May be Lucky to be in the top 10, so here is a non casual top ten 1 Schumi 2 Lewis 3 Fangio 4 Senna 5 Prost 6 Niki Lauda 7 Jim Clark 8 Jackie Stewart 9 M4x 10 Picket 11 Fernando

[@madjayax731]

Rosberg beat Schumacher 2 nonstop in his primed. You know why? This is when an athlete, a rider, a driver isn't in his/her prime condition again if he/she lose or doesn't have enough of energy, movement capacity, reaction times, spatial awareness, mental strength, and etc. to show his/her absolute best. I didn’t see Schumacher lacked any of this when he beaten 3 years nonstop by his should be new Rubens wrongly picked by Ross Brawn, but ceiling.

[@ScarScream]

I would switch Schumacher and Hamilton in your standings. Also if Verstappen wins a 5th consecutive world title next season I would put him above both Hamilton and Schumacher for the simple fact he would be the youngest ever pilot at 28 years old with 5 consecutive championship after his first 5 seasons in the F1 were completely dominated by a far better car that was Mercedes (2015-2020). Meaning that he took complete control over the F1 world and could have even more championships if Mercedes didn't have that big of an advantage back in those days. Yep let that sink in.

[@fallenorder9618]

I think verstappen’s 5th needs to come from a similar car as he had the past half season, maybe a bit better if he is to go above Schumacher and Hamilton with two less WDCs, if he can display that he is still the best driver on the grid with the 3rd or every 4th best car some days then I think that would cement him, otherwise verstappen would need 6/7 to become the best of all time

[@baxtybf1]

He Defs hits top 5 if he wins next year. How far does he go? That remains to be seen. How many more tiles would he have won without Merc? Not that much more. You could make an argument for 2020 but that's about it

[@basdollevoet2824]

@@baxtybf1I truely believe that Verstappen was at least a contender in 2019 (under the precondition that ferrari did not have their fuel flow advantage) and 2020. Before 2019 I can’t see him challenging Hamilton and Vettel in those years

[@baxtybf1]

@@basdollevoet2824 Nah, Hamilton was too strong in 19. And 20 for that matter. He might of got close, but he doesnt win

[@basdollevoet2824]

@@baxtybf1 I don’t agree that Hamilton was too strong in those years and I honestly believe it would be close (as in 2021). Unfortunately we will never know

[@wybren]

I am a Dutch person so a little biased ;) Personally I don't think he is the goat. Yet. He has the potential to become one. At the same time I also think Max made (besides 2x too aggressive defense against Norris) an extremely low amount of mistakes in the past 2-3 years. He is scary in his consistency. I have not seen that amount of machine-like precision before in a driver. You could argue that even his worst moments were sort of chosen by himself instead of by accident. He is also the first driver that is top notch on the track and behind the sim. That should give some credit too towards his 'greatness'. Comparing drivers is always difficult. Even now we are not sure if Max would beat Hamilton if they have the same car. Or even Norris and Piastri's second stint of the season? So in the end it becomes a personal preference. However I think that by the time Max retires that he will have a long and impressive legacy of wins behind him that will impress people for a long long time. Possibly in many other racing categories as well.

[@baxtybf1]

@@wybren Don't disagree, he could well be the GOAT. Time will tell. Though if Lewis wins a title at Ferrari, he kills it stone dead

[@wybren]

@@baxtybf1 If Lewis wins a title (next year) at Ferrari we know 2 things: 1. Ferrari made a car that was substantially faster than the competitors. Otherwise Max would still win like in 2021. 2. LeClerc got team orders to let Hamilton win his 8th championship. Mainly because LeClerc is used to Ferrari cars for years now and Hamilton will be a Ferrari rookie. Right now I even don't think Hamilton outpaces LeClerc in a similar car but time will tell.

[@daphnelovesL]

@@baxtybf1 That will be brilliant as a Verstappen fan.

[@EntropicExergy]

The meaning of the words in the abbreviation GOAT implies it is not time dependent. Of all time means now, all the way back before he even drove a car or a kart as well as in the future. Now i prefer the term best to ever do it, because Max is a lion and not a goat, lions eat goats. But yeah, Max is the best to ever do it, all that hindsight BS is nonsense of weak fence-sitters who do not dare to make a statement. Speak up dude, f the guys who disagree (including this baxty guy).

[@ohgin12345]

Actually why would you put Hamilton above Schumacher. Schumacher literally build up Ferrari and won 5 championship with them even though they were not competitive when he aent there.Mercedes already has the best car when Hamilton transferred there

[@baxtybf1]

Nope, Lewis joined in 2013 when Red Bull were still dominant. He didnt build Mercedes in the same way Michael built Ferrari, but he pushed them forward to maintain their standards

[@ohgin12345]

@baxtybf1 but he went there knowing they have the best car. The fact that the very next year both him and his partner occupied the first 2 spots shows clearly that they had the best car. And they occupied the first 2 spots for 4 out of the next 6 years. Thus proving it's the car. But of course let your British bias influence your views. Would Mclaran be less dominant if say Hamilton did not arrived. I would say no. They would be as dominant. Would Ferrari be dominant if say Michael did not went there? Most probably no. But anything you say. You are supposed to be the expert right?

[@ohgin12345]

@baxtybf1 also. It's funny once nico rosberg was allowed to "compete" with Lewis, he actually beat him. And funny he had to retire from F1 the next year. Shows he was actually given orders to give the championship to Lewis but Rosberg decided not to follow orders. How can you actually say Lewis is the best driver actually when this happens. But you are the expert right? I made the analysis without watching much F1 until maybe recently and I was watching during Schumacher time

[@baxtybf1]

@ohgin12345 I never claim to be an expert. I'm just a passionate fan with a camera. He took a gamble on them for 2014 and it paid off. Could have failed just as easily. Has he built a team like Michael? No, but that shouldn't be the sole barometer.

[@ohgin12345]

@baxtybf1 I think he already probably knows it's not going to be a "big" gamble.

[@SafakYokolma]

I’m curious where Max will end on your list next year 🤣…actually, I can appreciate that you are willing to move Max up on your list after seeing more of him. And the fact that you admit that you are biased towards Max may be promising for the future 😉…let’s see if your view on him is going to change along the way. If not, that’s ok too…different people, different views 🤷‍♀️

[@baxtybf1]

@@SafakYokolma I can't deny greatness

[@SafakYokolma]

@ I can relate to that…as a Max fan I think Lewis is a legend. The fight between them in ‘21, controversial at some points, was the best!

[@classicsportclassictiyl8547]

This world title bears similarities to what I consider Schumacher's finest of his seven titles-his second in 1995. Experts like Matt Bishop and Mark Hughes would confirm that the Benetton B195, which Michael drove, was no match for the Williams FW17 that year. He dominated Williams; it was a rout. This is partly why Damon Hill empathized with Lando, having been on the receiving end of a similar thrashing from Michael, which contributed to Williams' decision to replace him with Frentzen for the 1997 season.

[@ohgin12345]

@@classicsportclassictiyl8547 that's the thing. He obviously wins without having the better car.

[@m12x12]

Glad you're back!

[@maconpatton]

No issues with me. Very thoughtful.

[@benbennemans]

Maybe one could also argue that the current field of drivers is better & closer than in the past, with fitness coaches, better nutrition, and way more time in simulators. This was also the first F1 season with 7 drivers winning multiple races... more car parity? But I’m not looking to get into that debate. I want to touch on sprint races. With the sprint races now in the mix, we’ve got a format that tests drivers in a different way. In these shorter races, it’s more about raw speed and aggression. There's not much time for long-term strategy, so drivers have to make quick decisions about when to go for an overtake or defend their position. Quick adaptability. Performing under pressure in a condensed time frame. Some people might not be crazy about it, but I think it’s another way to see how drivers handle something different being thrown at them. Since Hamilton is ranked number 1 (which is fine by me), meaning he's the GOAT, I’d expect him to win a fair share of these sprints. For me, to be the GOAT, you’ve got to be able to shine in every kind of race, in any conditions, and against any competition. Bottas, Perez, Russell, Piastri, and Norris have all managed to win sprints, so if we’re going to accept that Hamilton is the GOAT, then he’s allowed to win a few too. It would strengthen his claim to being the GOAT. But the fact that drivers from earlier eras didn’t have the chance to compete in sprint races doesn’t take away from their greatness. Sprint races are an additional criterion we now have for evaluating a driver. But that's my opinion.

[@baxtybf1]

I see your point, however, Lewis has only really had 1 year in which he could win Sprints. He nearly won China this year, but Max was on another level. I think Lewis can win Sprints in a Ferrari, but we have to see

[@madjayax731]

Yep. Like everything in the world, F1 drivers’ skill and techniques to drive F1 cars are improving. For comparison Einstein will not able to compete today's scientist because they already can perform what Einstein was able to do at young age and make a lot improvement from that. Meanwhile in Motorsport, Hamilton and Rosberg watched how Schumacher drove an F1 car, mastered it, and made improvement from what Schumacher can do.

[@CloudStrifeXBL]

Everyone is a goat of their time in prime, pointless to compare everyone with each other and have a standing. Every single one of them is/was a generational talent.

[@bclmons74]

The disrespect to Fangio is criminal. This guy won 47% of his races in his entire career, and he won 5 championships. He should probably be number 1. No other driver in the history of the sport has dominated a period the way Fangio did.

[@baxtybf1]

@@bclmons74 Hear you, get it... I didn't see it. Same point I make for Max applies here

[@Wmeester1971]

A total different era. You cannot compare with modern F1.

[@TheSaeedshreem]

You are entitled to your opinions I guess, but Ham above Shumy, sure. 😂

[@baxtybf1]

@@TheSaeedshreem Generational I would say. I watched a lot more Lewis than I have Michael.

[@ohgin12345]

@@baxtybf1 but then. If you actually use logic. You would not simply say things

[@Gisae]

This list is pretty biased. Hamilton is not as good as Schumacher, Lauda, Prost or Senna.

[@madjayax731]

@@Gisae The higher a driver ceiling, the longer his top-level competitiveness longevity. Let's say there is the GOAT driver in F1 his talent, skill, and technique are in full bars. This driver will beat any driver in any generations as long as he still has full support for his talent and skill the like of energy, movement capacity, spatial awareness, reaction times, and etc. The closer a driver to the GOAT level the harder for any drivers to beat him. Schumacher get beaten 3 years nonstop 2010-2012 by his should be wingman contradict the statement above for being closer to the GOAT let alone being the GOAT.

[@Draconianoverlord55]

Niki Lauda beat a young prost while beilg very old for the time, Max hasn't touched that level yet, keep in mind that having multiple championships was so much harder back then

[@Wmeester1971]

I think that Lewis lost too many times to a team mate to be #1. Schumacher never did do that in his prime (Except after his return from retirement to Rosberg). For the rest, I think its very difficult, if not impossible, to rank (semi) modern era racers with the likes of Lauda, Steward, Clark and Fiango. its a whole different sport right now.

[@KrypticTMG]

I think its a subjective argument to be honest & i cant say you are wrong because its your opinion but i personally just think era's are crossing over and every era we get a driver that is a little more complete then the era before its just evolution. Give every Great driver a good car and they will all perform but the one thing Max has that the rest dont is out of 24 races he is going to be at the cars limit for at least 22 of those races and imo nobody else is that consistent. I know 2021 is a saw subject but lets be real Lewis needed the silverstone crash and the Hungry incident to reignite his championship because up until that point Max was performing at a crazy high level. Max was able to beat Lewis at tracks where Lewis had a fast car and would normally dominate but COTA and the silverstone sprint is where I said, i think Max might be that guy. Until Mercedes had a clear pace advantage, Lewis kind of struggled against Max. Pound for pound performance wise Max has been on a tear since 2019. He almost beat Bottas in 2020 in the W11 while having like 3dnfs and still only finished 9points behind him. If Max is lucky enough to get the amount of championship challenging cars Lewis has had in his career he will surpass 7 titles because who out of current crop is good enough to stop him if he has a good car.

[@franciscogrilo9108]

I truly believe the minimum for Verstappen is top 3, and of pure peak skill and maximize results i believe he is number 1

[@Tierall]

Lol, Ham above Schum. Schumacher went to Ferrari and build it to a dominant team (first four years he didnt win any titles) Hamilton went to Mercedes and replaced Schumacher. One can argue Schumacher again build the team to the level they were ready to become champions before Hamilton took over. Then, from 2022 onward Hamilton did not manage to pull Merc up again. Instead, we saw him complaining and throwing the team under the bus No mate, you need to get yourself checked out for the infectious British bias virus ;) good luck building a British channel

[@oransjball]

Schumacher enjoyed several dominant cars with with 0 competition. He crashed into people earning him titles. He lost to Rosberg embarrassingly, who Hamilton convincingly defeated. He aged like milk in comparison to other "old" drivers. Schumacher didnt build shit in the team, as any driver ever did. Hamilton beat prime Fernando Alonso in his rookie season and should have been champion that year. He has had the most competition out of them all, several world champions and future ones as teammates and as competitors Hes still incredibly fast at almost 40 years old which Michael never was. Thinking a driver build the team is stupid and ignorant. What a driver can ever contribute is attraction, which Hamilton has tons of compared to Schumacher (numbers dont lie).

[@ohgin12345]

@@oransjball wow. Are British ppl that low iq?

[@madjayax731]

The higher a driver ceiling, the longer his top-level competitiveness longevity. Let's say there is the GOAT driver in F1 his talent, skill, and technique are in full bars. This driver will beat any driver in any generations as long as he still has full support for his talent and skill the like of energy, movement capacity, spatial awareness, reaction times, and etc. The closer a driver to the GOAT level the harder for any drivers to beat him. Schumacher get beaten 3 years nonstop 2010-2012 by his should be wing-man contradict the statement above for being closer to the GOAT let alone being the GOAT.

[@ohgin12345]

@@madjayax731 your comment is so illogical. I have to question your Int quotient level to be honest. You expect someone to perform at the same level no matter the age. Guess if say Michael Schumacher was 60 years old, you would expect him to win championship as well otherwise you would question his greatness. I dunno why ppl like you are part of humanity to be honest

[@ohgin12345]

@@madjayax731 you never even realized that for Schumacher at that age, he is probably no longer interested in winning championship but has other motivation in competing. He went back to racing not for the sake of winning especially after not racing for so many years But the thing up there is failing you

[@humphreyterveer1338]

Question: by the age of 27, how many F1 drivers have won a total of 4 WDC?

[@baxtybf1]

@@humphreyterveer1338 2. Vettel and Verstappen Vettel was 26 Verstappen was 27 What's your point?

[@warrenjoubert4027]

Nice opinions there dude. Find out what Dirty Harry said about opinions.

[@rientsdijkstra4266]

"When that Red Bull hasn't been to his liking he hasn't been able to get the job done"??? Bruh, since China, after Newey left the RB has been a *DOG* of a car. Simply look at Perez, who was scoring solid podiums for 4 out of the first 5 races, but who tumbled to P.8 and worse, and eliminations in Q1 and Q2 since then. The *ONLY* driver who really *NEEDS a SUPERIOR CAR IS HAMILTON* . *Hamilton won ALL his WDCs in a SUPERIOR CAR* . 🤡🤡🤡

[@madjayax731]

Motorsport isn't men-powered sport. It is very different to athletic or Tennis. You can easily spot who is better among Nadal, Djokovic, Federer, or Alcaraz. There are no machines powering them - making different from one to the others. OTOH, there are machines, team brain powers in equation for performance on tracks in F1 mask drivers’ actual performances. If you give Stroll cars with 2 s advantage and pair him with the worst F1 driver possible you can get, he would dominate Hamilton, Alonso, Max, Leclerc, and etc. Should we say Stroll is in an all-time great based on dominating his teammate? Hmm... How good is Max, Schumacher, Hamilton, Senna etc. can't be just based on isolation on the rate of them beating/dominating their respective teammates. If your measurement of this overweight toward dominating teammates, you basically give more power to Schumacher and Max. A driver looks good if his teammate is worse and vice versa. The question is how worse is his teammates relative to the grid? Albon looks super good relative to the grid when his teammates was Latifi and Logan. Now, his teammate is a sensational rookie Colapinto, he looks mid. See, how the level of your teammates can make you look like either the GOAT or mid.

[@itvmedia2011]

Schumacher didn’t had a partymode which put him always on pole, where he could drive away in clean air. I would rank Lewis below Schumacher and Ayrton and also below Verstappen

[@madjayax731]

Rosberg beat Schumacher nonstop in his primed. You know why? This is when an athlete, a rider, a driver isn't in his/her prime condition again if he/she lose or doesn't have enough of energy, movement capacity, reaction times, spatial awareness, mental strength, and etc. to show his/her absolute best. I didn’t see Schumacher lacked any of these when he gets beaten 3 years nonstop by his should be new Rubens wrongly picked by Ross Brawn.

[@royalladin5276]

You clearly fancy Lewis. You say that now Max does not have the fastest car he cant win. But look at Lewis. Lewis is not that great as you make him. Lewis had the fastest car for 8 years and thats why he won.

[@ohgin12345]

@@royalladin5276 incredible the iq levels of those ppl

[@daphnelovesL]

You are talking bad at Verstappen at Mexico have seen how Schumacher drove?

[@Poonithara]

Prost doesn't deserve the position.. Senna should have won the 1989 WDC. FIA president Bslestre disqualified Senna after Prost collided with him at Suzuka. Years later, after leaving the presidency of FIA, Balestre admitted to having acted to benefit Prost in 1989. So it should have been Senna 4 WDCs & Prost 3 not the other way around . FIA Balestre

[@FloorBoontjes-wo1hv]

The ONLY driver who needs a superior car: Hamilton. *Verstappen already has 2 WDC's in a SLOWER CAR* Reality: 1.) ex equo: Verstappen, Senna and Michael Schumacher 4.) ex equo: Alonso & Prost & Hamilton 7. etc.) Many historical greats: Mansell, Stewart, Clark, Fangio, etc, etc.

[@gronz]

Baxty back off

[@Draconianoverlord55]

Max has lewis, and ferrari as good competition today, the McLaren boys aren't it and any other good driver isn't as good or doesn't have a fast car, compare that to the other people on your list, Hamilton is not better than Schumi yet too

[@MrSimonyong]

Currently The Goat 🐐 is Toto wolff's blue eye boy RUBBISH RUSSELL...!!!

[@Reemsjen]

Lewis fanboy...get your head out of your ***