The TRUTH about my Haas Mills | Pierson Workholding

[@peek2much3]

I have to admit that I'm both impressed and glad to see that UNLIKE MOST tool vendors you guys do actually sell directly and potential customers can see pricing. It infuriates me when you have to "contact sales" for everything and have to jump through hoops just to get a damn price. With you, folks know upfront what they're paying and how much options cost. That is refreshing let alone convenient. Cut the middle man and deal with your customers just like you do. If a client has an issue they're not going to have to beg for support and that will make the difference. You want repeating clients that are loyal to your brand. Great work guys! AMERICAN MADE BABY!

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Thank you! The buying process in the CNC industry is insane! Imagine going to a store where you have to find out how much things cost at checkout. We sell direct with upfront pricing and no middlemen so our customers get the best pricing and best experience.

[@135SoHc]

Something I think often missed from the benefits of the SMTC, the coolant halo/ring around the spindle. TSC is still king of course but when doing deep pocketing or taller parts that can obstruct the nozzles with only having coolant flow from the right side of the spindle is a majorly huge PITA when your limited to the 20 pocket/umbrella tool holder.

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Agreed! Another benefit I forgot to mention in the video was that tools in a SMTC can be any tool number you want as opposed to the tool number having to correspond to the pocket number on an umbrella changer. For example, you have have tools 1-30 used for steel and 31-60 for aluminum. Early on, our changeovers would be to literally swap out all tools and just reassign them in the tool table. Offsets could be stored permanently and never needed changing.

[@JohnSL]

Interesting video, as always. One thing I noticed is that the color grading seemed off--the video had a green cast to it. I expect most people didn't notice, but it was hard for me to ignore it.

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Good eye. Thanks for the feedback!

[@BirdsEyeTech]

First thing I noticed too. I do video production for a living though. Haha

[@marclevitt8191]

I think everyone can notice. Normally your videos have very professional color.

[@jimimmler9110]

I read this comment prior to watching the video so I was able convert the potential frustration into a soft relaxing feeling.

[@sweet_as_honey]

I thought it was the weed

[@Thewaldo12345]

I have a 91 Makino mill with a Fanuc O-M control that only takes one parameter for the 4th axis. Bought a used Hyundai Wia with a OI-MD that takes 9,520 parameters to activate the 4th.

[@richhuntsd12]

Great video Jay. I had to laugh about your VF2SS. I just purchased a new VF2SSYT and I am of the same mindset. Not really a SS fan. But the quote actually came in for less than the Std VF because of the discounts. I think you’re really on the right track with more horizontals. With your std. product lines it makes a lot of sense to me.

[@BalticBlades]

What a great video! Was I the only one, whenever the intermision music played, thought that something USB connected/disconected from my PC?

[@zacharysmith3793]

yes, so many times

[@IainMcClatchie]

I'd love to see how you control thermals in your facility. For example: * Tool preset vs machine while in-use. * Machine coolant temp during the cut vs workpiece temp when you torque the bolts. * Workpiece temperature vs pallet temp between when you cut vs when you torque the bolts. * Do you cut ferrous on ferrous pallets and aluminum on aluminum pallets, or do you mix? * Machine frame temperature between the time it starts cutting and the time it stops. Do you use IR thermometers? How well do those work with shiny metal? Are you verifying and logging temp on pieces as you cut them? 1 meter of aluminum changing 1 degree C changes by 24 microns, about a thou. I don't work with these machines yet and I'm mystified why changing temperature doesn't throw them out all the time.

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Most modern machines have active (chillers) and passive (software) thermal management. The machines are made from cast iron that has about 5x better coefficient of thermal expansion than aluminum. The shop temperature doesn't change more than ±5ºF through the day so thermal concerns are far less than expected. Tool wear and tool deflection is far more of a concern when it comes to accuracy.

[@janzumbach5867]

I have facility in Poland. I have 8 Haas mills 1xc TM-1 (2006) 4x VF2 1x VF3 1x VF6 1x UMC-750 (2023). UMC-750 we installed in May 2023. Since installation June 2023 we had 21 UMC failures with repairs by Haas service. No more Haas in my facility.

[@dejanvanevski4399]

@@janzumbach5867 I read on cnc forums that a lot of people have troubles with umc series(positioning,accuracy,cut quality...)Maybe is better to take another 5 axis.Good luck

[@davidlefebvre9350]

I would love a in depth video about the scanning upgrade on your machines. I would love to implement this in my shop!

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Haas covered most of that here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/f5TJonuggLuir8U

[@TheSouper07]

You should really look into Trinity Automations pallet systems. You could do a lot more lights out machining of your products with several of them running 24/7.

[@lawmate]

Nice video. On your hanging 4th, you should make a bracket so the cable is above the centre of gravity, so the pallet adapter always lays horizontal. It would probably make setup even easier

[@LoneWolfPrecisionLLC]

That max 4 looks sweet. I only wish It fit on my trunnion 😅

[@PiersonWorkholding]

The MAX-4 is a great excuse to get a new trunnion! 😁

[@LoneWolfPrecisionLLC]

​@@PiersonWorkholdingwould have to buy a whole new machine unfortunately. Older brother speedio with no column riser 😂

[@nathanhartlaub121]

Great update on current shop status, if your running miles of 1/8" tooling you might want to look into air turbine tools, drastically reduced my cycle time on super fine finishing ops on molds, generally about half the time.

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Yes we previously ran one at 25k RPM and they just weren't good enough for full depth slotting work. They're a great option for for fine finishing like you mentioned.

[@neznamkaj]

I would like to see mora about how Haas tool pre setter works. If you scan QR code, you need to have it on your machine. Or you can save it all on USB maybe?

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Haas covered most of that here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/f5TJonuggLuir8U

[@Xphinity]

You take care of your ladies, I can very much respect that -HAAS Tech

[@danielhurford6706]

Have you considered Okuma Genos Mills? I think they're pretty competitive with a Haas UMC. In my experience, they are a lot more rigid and the support in my area has been better than HAAS.

[@JohnnyTurbo87]

The fact that these machines have "accuracy and stability" zones is quite crazy

[@PiersonWorkholding]

True, sadly. But just the UMC-500. The VFs and EC are nice and tight.

[@reeddavis8091]

What types and brands of tool holders and collets do you use? Roughing and finishing if different.

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Mainly SK collets from Techniks and hydraulic holders from YG1 for finishing tools and ER collets for roughers and drills.

[@Houcnc]

Hes back !!!

[@Thepriest39]

I love your idea of holding up the 4 axis on your VF2 when it isn’t in use. I have been trying to think of how to do this on my VF4SS with an HRT210SS. Can you show how you set up your winch to accomplish this? That would be awesome. Maybe it should be a HAAS option.

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Will do! I'll make an entire video about it and post it to our Pierson Plus channel 👉www.youtube.com/@Pierson-Plus

[@doesntmatter9571]

Jay, any plans on a hrt210 tombstone pallet system? We are using diamond pins and bolts currently to hold down the pallets, but something air operated would be very helpful!

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Our MAX-4 works perfectly with an HRT-210! We have 6x6 round pallets in stock. Stay tuned... Two Fixture Fridays from now will show off a few tombstones. store.piersonworkholding.com/MAX-Pallet-System_c_17.html

[@1186MFG]

i do love DMG machines. but I never would have ran one if it wasn't for Haas. In many ways they just cant be beat.

[@PiersonWorkholding]

That's a great perspective! Everyone wants to drive a Porsche, but sometimes the best car to learn to drive is a Toyota.

[@xswords1953]

What was the lightsaber looking thing on the umc 500 by the safety sticker

[@Bfreese12x]

Could you explain the relationship between gauge offset, z axis offset and tool length offset? I think there is a needed application for this in my shop.

[@PiersonWorkholding]

This is a great question! We'll make an entire video about it and post it to the Pierson Plus channel 👉www.youtube.com/@Pierson-Plus

[@johnspathonis1078]

Hi Jay Another very informative video. When you found the length error with your various tool setters was the tool rotating as part of the tool setter macro or did it not matter?

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Typically not rotating, but the biggest factor is most likely related to differing thermals. Even the calibration tool will measure differently over a few hours.

[@johnspathonis1078]

@@PiersonWorkholding Hi Jay. The tool setter I have is a Pioneer TTC200 which has a hinged arm with a ceramic touch face. This face should be 'horizontal' in the Y direction but should not be horizontal in the X direction due to the rotation of the hinged arm.. If it is horizontal/parallel to the table in the X direction it will return inconsistencies if a point other than dead centre is the tool contact point. I made my own reference length tool which has a ball bearing on the end. The ball eccentricity has a coarse and fine adjustment so run-out is adjustable usually in the 1-2 micron range. For best results the reference length tool is best installed in the spindle in exactly the same position as when it was adjusted (not 180 degrees out). So, sinc the spindle before inserting the reference length tool. In this regard the touch down point is always dead centre. I am in the process of reengineering the mounting system for the TTC200 as the current adjustment system is not operator friendly. Plus special technique is required to set in the X direction. Cheers

[@matejkuka797]

hello Mr.Pierson :) 24:40 I recommend you to print plastic covers for the T-slots with the help of a 3D printer! we wanted to have it made from POM material, externally, but it would still be over 1500 euros :D so we printed it in two days with the help of a 3D printer from ordinary PETG material and it has been working perfectly for a year and a half :) in general HAAS and spons don't like each other :D if I lived in USA, I'm your best employee :D I like your attitude and thanks for the videos

[@matejkuka797]

once a month, I clean the T slots and they are fine

[@capnthepeafarmer]

I'd love to see a video on how you setup your machines to use QR codes. Did you just buy a usb scanner and it auto populates the data? Seems like an easy win.

[@PiersonWorkholding]

It's software that came with the tool presetter. Definitely an easy win.

[@jongrimm7767]

A young guy helped me with f360 on a project. We decided to buy a newer mill, so we gave him a tired VF1. His first purchase was a table subplate from you. Thanks for all you do. A deep dive on the qr code scanner implementation would be awesome.

[@MrTooTechnical]

Kick ass. What is the average thhn wire gauge that u run to each machine for 3 phase power.? Thanks.

[@wrighty338]

Good to see you back Jay, subscribed to Pierson Plus

[@TimothyFrancisco]

The tool tag holder you have on the VF2-SS, is that a 3D print file or something you bought? Interested how you organize your tools.

[@PiersonWorkholding]

I made a whole video about it: kzbin.info/www/bejne/m5W5g2tspK6Al68

[@Sm0ke_And_Las3rs]

8 Wastes photobombing... Nice lean set up on that rotary. Expect nothing less from Pierson.

[@jareddahlseid551]

How is the VM3s thermal stability in Z axis? I've heard with the finer pitch ball screws that it varies as much as .007" from cold to warm...

[@TrPrecisionMachining]

hello fron spain ..very good video Mr Pierson..thanks for your time

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Encanto España. Tengo familia en Irún.

[@TrPrecisionMachining]

@@PiersonWorkholding gracias,,yo vivo en asturias que esta tambien en el norte de españa

[@chrisfinan9142]

I always liked Haas. We had 2 TM minis and a VF4. They are easy to use... maybe not the most accurate. Thing about Haas is they nickel and dime you on the software options, very frustrating...

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Another perspective: Having owned 3 machine brands, I've always been frustrated with controls that are fully optioned up, but 3/4 of the options are features I'd never use. Total waste of money. With Haas, you only pay for what you want and pocket the rest.

[@wst2663]

Little curious, what CAM system do you currently use for all of the machines?

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Autodesk Fusion 360

[@patrickhenry7416]

im purchasing an EC 400 soon. Will I be able to find work?

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Horizontals are best when Vertical machines can't keep up. I'd get the work first.

[@matthewstoner1920]

Got a lean question for you. On the horizontals your making multiple parts but not verifying them. Why not make one part, check it , then make another part and check it. So on and so on. I don't understand the high density work holding.

[@Factory400]

Curious what you don't understand. Once a good setup is verified, you don't need to verify every single part. If the part is on the fringes of the precision capabilities of the machine and setup - but that is not likely the case here.

[@matthewstoner1920]

​@@Factory400For general machining I would agree that every part doesn't need checked. ​In my opinion for high volume jobs the lean approach is to do just that and with a high level of automation. The theory being that single piece flow will generally outperform mass production approaches. It looks like Pierson is switching production over to the EC-400 which is probably a good call but in my opinion not a lean approach.

[@thunderthormx]

​@@matthewstoner1920 not sure ypu understand what lean manufacturing is. If you can run many parts at once with little manpower that is the moat ideal. It would get extremely expensive and impossible to scale having one employee stamding there all day feeding and checking one part at a time.

[@jacobwhitcombeCNC]

Aren't you suppose to cut cast iron dry?? General question! I've not machined alot of cast iron but when I have, I did dry? Thanks 🤙

[@PiersonWorkholding]

You can cut cast iron both wet or dry. We prefer wet for quieter chip evacuation and to cut down on cast iron dust.

[@jacobwhitcombeCNC]

@@PiersonWorkholding ahhh thanks for that! Shall keep that in mind! Glad to see you back with some videos!!

[@richhuntsd12]

Hi Jay. I meant to ask you a question. Have you embraced and or tried the Haas coolant refill system or do you do the traditional. “Mix and move”process for your coolant? I just purchased the Coolant rueful but have not set it up yet, so we will see!

[@PiersonWorkholding]

I've considered it but can't get fully on board. We're very picky about maintaining the right coolant concentration and one less thing off my operators' minds is one more thing that doesn't get as much attention. We currently use a coolant drum cart that mixes and adds directly into the machine.

[@BigD4Real.]

All haas machines have lubrication problems. I work at a used machine dealer and see what happens to them compared to other machines. Check the trucks are getting lube and I bet you’ll find dry ones even on a newer machine.

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Did you notice a difference between grease and oil machines? Haas recently switched to using way lube instead of grease. Maybe that's why.

[@3073Sean]

Jay, on your UMC 500, when you say you stepped down your DOC to 8%, does that fix the .002 error? Or put another way, a DOC of 15% creates a .002 error and a 8% does not?

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Stepping down the DoCs proportionately steps down the error. We don't make any close tolerance parts on the UMC so we just need to get under our ±.003" standard tolerance.

[@joesmith2465]

I have a old fadal I hang my 4th axis just like that. Keep up the good videos

[@donjones7232]

Jay, is there a QR scanner at each machine, and if so, is it wireless? How does information go from scanned tag to each machine?

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Yes, it's a Haas accessory that connects a wireless QR scanner via bluetooth to a USB dongle.

[@donjones7232]

@@PiersonWorkholding Thanks Jay, I will check it out and see if there is path forward to use this at my workplace. We have a lot of rules that are counterproductive to efficiency. Can't disclose any more about that though.

[@bobcarlson7729]

I’d leave the setters in the machine for breakage detection and call up sister tool on your overnight runs

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Yes, the EC-400 has a permanent presetter that we can use for tool breakage. We pulled the presetters from the other "lights-on" machines.

[@Bernhard-c3r]

Haas should offer an RFID system for storing tool data, so people don't have use 3d printed tags.

[@ytfan3815]

Hello Jay, can I ask, do you have troubles with chips under the pallets when changing (31:22). Is there an air blow system or some other cleaning before pallets going back in the pallet pool storage ?

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Yes there are built in air nozzles that clean off the 6 locating pads.

[@ytfan3815]

@@PiersonWorkholding Okay, thanks for the reply. 👍

[@rowycoracing]

Great info. Thank you.

[@WeberMachineWorks]

great video thanks

[@leensteed7861]

I don't understand why HAAS makes the VF1 or VF3. It has to be cheaper to standardise production to less models.

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Yup! There's a saying among Haas owners: "Friends don't let friends buy a VF1 or VF3".

[@luke1811]

Most parts relevant for precision on zero point systems are turning parts I guess? Don't want to ask the question you know 😄😄

[@devexpert]

How do you do tool breakage check with the tool setters removed?

[@PiersonWorkholding]

The best tool breakage detection is no tool breakage detection.

[@yagermeister1303]

load monitor

[@E3_Machine]

@@PiersonWorkholding What are your tool monitoring strategies?

[@devexpert]

@@PiersonWorkholding When running unattended there are only two types of shops. Ones that run tool breakage detection and ones that will run it. Good luck!

[@ryanwylie8495]

I'd buy it bud!

[@HarshBhagat]

Haas Machine Great I India India country Low Price Provide in India country I series model Operator Friendly machine All sensor system Provided Accident time in Helping all seasor to imigetli Stop machine And ATC recovery Program Rest Unlimited Block size Program Line reading and Rest program start And Direct Driver spindle India first machine direct drive spindle 10k spindle speed provided Haas best

[@Biggie_Johns_Son-v3i]

... hurry, replace those seven with Japanese or German machines while the H**s machines still have some resell value...

[@Reptilianoverlord-jc8mt]

Doosan machining centres are great never had any issues. You get allot for your money for the size.

[@dominic6634]

Use to like Haas until they started breaking down and their dealers in the Denver area became elitist to small shops