The Truth About Old-Time Music

Banjo Heritage 👉 / cliftonhicks
Today's old-time music is a commercial fad which traces its roots to New York City and the 1960s urban folk revival. Jam circles, judging panels, tablature books, workshops, and other central elements of the old-time music subculture were developed in the urban North at this time.
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[@Throttlejockey94]

Ten years ago, I was making my way into the OT scene as a banjo player and gaining respect. Then I was chased off for being a Christian. Hurts man. The OT scene has gotten very hostile.

[@CliftonHicksbanjo]

You were ethnically cleansed and replaced by _McOldtime._

[@MrNU998]

Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. Thank you for this truth Mr. Hicks

[@Tasmanaut]

I have a similar experience to report, but in the world of celtic folk music. I used to frequent a weekly jam session that was held in a popular pub. I was naïve at first, I went to sing ballads and play irish tenor banjo. I was pretty new to the music but there was a certain feeling and power I loved about some of the songs and tunes. I hadn't been playing the banjo long, but the handful of tunes I could play, i could play ferociously and loud with a kind of rough around the edges bounce. I was quickly shunned by the fiddlers and other tune players because I played the tunes differently from the version that they knew when it was my chance to finally play one. The crowd, however, actually responded to my lively playing after hours of endless diddily diddily tunes at the same tempo with no variation. I brought the house down with some of the ballads, but the tune players absolutely hated it and never joined in on accompaniment. There was one old guy, an actual irishman from Dublin that was friends with the Dubliners back in the day, and he would actually join me in singing, and that meant a lot to me. I was basically ran out of there eventually. Those sorts of trad gatherings aren't really about getting to the heart of the music or authentic expressions, just as you described. The melancholic and rebel spirit within the celtic tradition is severed, from what I have found. It seems that the folk tradition is a more recent and living expression in the USA still, though. Now I'm discovering the missing link between the celtic music and some of the more contemporary music that I like, and its everything you feature on your channel and the history and culture of Appalachia.

[@JesusHChrist-q9d]

It's the same with jazz music. If you play anything the audience enjoy, everyone else gets pissy and accuses you of not being serious about the music. I played bass with a bluegrass/old time band in the UK for a year and people seemed to get offended if you wanted paying to play for their venue. Everyone who is into the music plays it and they are all happy to pay £100 to sit in a tent, with their £5000 Martin guitars, playing the same songs, with and to the same people but they seem to think everyone else should be entertaining them for free because "the community".. The community don't seem to want to pay my electric bills though..

[@myrlewulf6256]

I find old-time music to be more poetic, not just because of the lyrics but because of the way the men who created this music lived. Just a man and his instrument escaping whatever suffering they are experiencing. It's pure art. I haven't really gotten that vibe at any festival I've been to.

[@CliftonHicksbanjo]

Myrle, that ancient vibe you're describing doesn't have a chance at "old-time" and "folk" music festivals. Once in a while they let something brilliant slip past the gatekeepers, but only by accident, and they usually correct the error quickly.

[@pennsyltuckyreb9800]

No hard-timers at these festivals. Just a bunch of neo-libs artsy fartsies types. Hardest thing in their lives was burning their lips once on a Starbucks coffee.

[@rcg5317]

First of all, this is one of the few videos that should have “listen all the way to the end” on the splash page. 😂 Secondly, it is spot on. One of my favorite aspects of real old time traditionalists is how they will tell you the lineage of the song and their teacher in a respectful way before they play and teach me. Like food my mother taught me to actually make for myself so as to feed family and friends; it is not really mastered until I don’t need to make it the same way every time but can adapt to what I have on hand and who is being fed.

[@CliftonHicksbanjo]

"Give a man a fish" vs "teach a man to fish" comes to mind.

[@rmcnabb]

I took fiddle lessons for a while from a young woman who was very much an urban folkie type, like what you're referring to, went to all the festivals, etc., and I talked about trying to find every single Tommy Jarrell recording and listening to them for just hours, how raw and primal it was, and she said "You don't really listen to old time, do you? I didn't think anybody really spent much time listening to it?" I was literally speechless and stopped taking any more lessons.

[@cowboy6591]

God I love your attitude. I walked away from a 25 year succesfull carreer path as a commercial Pedal Steel Guitarist and never looked back. I experienced the epiphany of realizing what a big mistake it was trading my freedom to create new guitar lines for a chart and a paycheck. My love for the art of music plummeted and it soon turned into a job I hated. One band leader looked at me at the end of a tune and said "I want a Loydd Greene style on that tune. Well I had enough, I looked at him and said "why don't you give loydd a Call asshole" and handed him his phone number. And packed it up walked away from a 900/week retainer gig. And never looked back. Now I enjoy an UPRIGHT BASS and weird folky music often found on 78rpm Victrola records. We call it "Ole Timey Music"

[@Treetalker]

You hit the nail on the head brother. The hippies who love to hate and mock rural people sure like to poorly imitate their music. I'm born and raised in Southern Appalachia. Festival music sounds dainty and delicate, not wild with distinct character like music from the hills.

[@paulbennick2294]

Man you said this well. I'm from the mountains in Wyoming. Our ancestors brought this music out here from NC after the Civil War. I never realized our mountain music had been appropriated by hippies until I started following music on youtube. The people who hate us the most love to play dress up with our lifestyle.

[@bryanlentz7160]

Most of these people at the festivals are a&&holes because they DON’T care about the music just the prize money these festivals and contests offer!

[@gregpryne4736]

That’s so true , I’ve been playing my own music for 42yrs. I strive to be unique and sound like myself … Thank’s man

[@Mignarda]

I just ran across this bit of commentary and I want to thank you for saying the same thing I've been saying for decades, particularly that last bit. I don't go to festivals because I respect the music.

[@LibertyNotLicense]

My father used to similarly lament such things a half a century ago--seems as both yesterday and as in a former life. He loved traveling around recording the true American music in the 60's and 70's--especially banjo. I, of course, just loved being with dad. But now I can also appreciate his appreciations.

[@governorkraken6546]

"the other gripe is that most of 'em are a bunch of assholes". I suspected as much. I live in regional Western Australia so I've never been involved in that scene but I sometimes listen to an old-time podcast at work and the interviewees are mostly these urban professionals types (doctors, lawyers etc) that were raised on the suzuki method. A lot of them have this kind of stench of pretentiousness I find difficult to stomach at times. Definitely not "folks" for sure. Love your work Cliff.

[@CliftonHicksbanjo]

You nailed it. We call those people _McOldtime._

[@alexhage8092]

The reason you were able to pin point it so well is because there so many of those people in australia . Arguably 99% of modern Australians are pretentious like that filled with racist confidence and xenophobia tooted in their pride.

[@Tbowie13]

I know this is an old post, but damn your spot on! I think the real feel comes out of these mountains and the real struggles and lives that took place. People who's clothes look worn because they worked hard! Not because they're some hipster who went to a second hand store to look "authentic"! I think on the old timers like my Grandad, Frank "Roxy" Sanders, born 1913, who went through the depression. He cut his own firewood by hand till he was 91 yrs old and split it all with a splitting maul, every stick off the back of our mountain top (BTW, all he had to warm his home was an old Ben Franklin wood stove) because he wouldnt be dependant on an electric company. He'd talk of the old Civil War Vets who'd sit at the Town Square and whittle as they told stories. You're right Clifton, that old time music was born of lives like that. Most of these "woke" folks have no clue, they're playing that style of music to be cool, rather than it being who they are!

[@dividedwords]

@@CliftonHicksbanjo Who do you mean by "we"?

[@guywolff]

I have been playing and loving clawhammer banjo in my pottery barn for just around 50 years now .. Back porch music has been the joy of my life ... I am a New Englander and the fiddle players who did the Square dances are the ones I followed around on tunes . Listening to Clarence Tom Ashley on records was my only classroom ... My style of playing would confuse the heck out of a lot of the session jam people because I play from the rocks and trees I have lived with my whole life .. . The joy is in the playing and if you find a few that you can dance with musically you got a good night in front of you ..Warm regards from north western Connecticut

[@thedreadtyger]

that last line is worth everything! folk music is on the old folks ' front porch.

[@liamneary5491]

When I was in highschool trying to learn guitar in highschool, we were offered tabs and it's what everyone seemed to go with. It never felt like I was really playing the guitar. Coming to banjo and just practicing the bum ditty rhythm had me learning what notes at each fret sounded good and which ones sounded off felt like I was exploring it and learning things myself. Now that I feel I'm actually playing, I always try to learn from the lesson first and play it for a few days to see if I can work it out. It tends to be when I try to get the words to fit I realize something is off and I'll peak at the tab, I definitely understand the dislike for tab because it's how I've felt with it playing guitar. But I really do appreciate you doing it.

[@dwaingibbs93]

I first learned guitar, and with Noone around to help me on a regular basis, ultimate guitar was how I learned everything. It became somewhat of a crutch for me. Learning banjo was what got me out of that.

[@theheresiarch3740]

One thing I've come to understand, and I think you may agree judging by this video, is that true folk music - for whatever that term is worth - is extremely independent while also acknowledging where it came from, and a good folk musician adds a few of their own threads to the cultural tapestry that many people over many generations have been weaving together. Festival culture is inherently a much more artificial environment than regular life is, so they imitate that tapestry without really bothering to understand anything about it because that works within the confines of the festival environment. Jazz has been grappling with similar issues in that it's been flooded with standards, gatekeepers, and people who are wholly disconnected from and lack respect for the culture that birthed it, and it's caused an identity crisis. For that matter, so has classical music, except it's much further along in the process and has accumulated much more baggage. Festival folk similarly has a lack of respect or even disdain for where it came from, it has issues with standards and gatekeeping, and all of this similarly causes conflict and an identity crisis whenever people run up against it. I think where I might push back a little is with a potentially unanswerable question and a bit of a ramble: What even is old time, really? Or bluegrass, or folk, or jazz, or any other style of music that's deeply rooted in a particular culture? It's tied to a time, place, and people who have either changed or aren't around anymore. Those threads are already set in the tapestry, and although it might be in a very similar style, we're weaving a distinct section of our own that will never really be the same as the older ones. Shit, I'm not even the same man I was 20 years ago, I definitely can't be my grandfather in the 1920s and do anything from that perspective, no matter how much I loved and respected him. I think this is something that's worth thinking about for all of us that participate in historical music and use it as part of our creative expression. We respect cultures of the past and emulate things we like about them creatively, but their threads were theirs, our threads are ours, we can never be the same as them, and that's both bittersweet and extremely freeing. I can combine my old time banjo and mandolin with wavetable synthesizers and digital effects, and nobody can stop me. Nobody will probably listen to it, either, but maybe in a hundred years somebody will look back and see my very oddly colored threads in the tapestry, who knows.

[@mikeoitzman8275]

I love that you've started Banjo Heritage. As a new banjo player, I am soaking up all of content and knowledge that you've put out there. Keep it up!

[@daveyjoweaver6282]

Well said Clifton! My favorite music is traditional Real from the heart type. I’ve been playing guitar many years but always tried to play from my own heart. I’ve known many people who do their best to sound like the original artist but never liked this. Wow, they sound just like the original,,,,,,,,so what I say. Not that the talent isn’t there but that they aren’t. I love Doc Watson but I do my best to play old time tunes from my own experience, my own heart. So I completely understand where you’re coming from and why I find your music Heartfelt. I remember a way back in the 60s a guy who didn’t play or sing that well. No fancies on his guitar, no voice of an angel but music from his Huge heart. He was truly well Loved because he was sincerely real. My goal was never to go big time or even local fame. I’ve always just wanted to play kitchen music. And I’ve played in many kitchens over the years with some coffee or beer and a bunch of other real musicians. I remember going around the kitchen table and everyone played their version of the same song, Delightful! You play kitchen, on the porch or under a tree music in the traditional way Clifton. Thank God for that I say! It heartfelt true music to my ears. The kind that perks up your heart and soul ears. Kind Thanks! DaveyJO in Pennsylvania

[@baptistemorlet7646]

si je comprends bien ce que tu dis, c'est une chose qui est répandue en art et d'autres domaines , c'est le côté superficiel et technique , qui font souvent des résultats séduisants mais sans âme , sans profondeurs , je sens que tu met ton cœur dans les airs que tu partages merci de tout cœur .

[@CliftonHicksbanjo]

Exactement.

[@baptistemorlet7646]

@@CliftonHicksbanjo il y a peu de temps j'ai écouté un groupe de musique irlandaise , c'était parfaitement joué et totalement vide, triste ,

[@CliftonHicksbanjo]

Je connais trop bien la sensation ! Pouvez-vous nous recommander de bons musiciens français ou européens ?

[@baptistemorlet7646]

@@CliftonHicksbanjo je ne suis pas très bien informé , dans ce domaine , George Brassens ,les vieilles chansons d'Aristide Bruant , la Bolduc, la musique en France à été très abimée par le showbiz , je joue sur mon banjo seul dans un coin perdu , avant sur les quais de la Seine pour les passants ,les copains ,

[@CliftonHicksbanjo]

Avez-vous déjà écouté de la vieille musique Américaine "Cajun", comme les Balfa Brothers ou Canray Fontenot ? Aussi, je pense que vous pourriez apprécier ce duo canadien : kzbin.info/www/bejne/bp7GaXeKf5Z3i8k

[@paulstarr6316]

As an Englishman It is only recently that I have stumbled across the incomparable Clifton Hicks & as I have stated before, his ability to capture the pure musical essence of another age is quite amazing.The world is just so full of damned noise which some like to call music but I know differently. Mr Hicks has brought to us music that touches the soul.I hope I don't sound pretentious but I am absolutely sure that there are many who will agree with me,it's called music with soul.And through Clifton Hicks I have now discovered Matt Kinman.Happy days.

[@allenbuck5589]

Well your music is great. Don’t stop. From a hill top in. Sc.

[@deltabilly1]

The last line - I almost choked. Hilarious

[@jakeglanville6835]

I wouldn't go to or play in any festival that disparaged hillbillies or America's folk heritage. Dock Boggs and Bascom Lamar Lunsford were part of my musical education, thanks to British jazzmen like Ken Colyer and Lonnie Donegan who first introduced most of us in England to American rural blues (both white and black) and music way back in the early 1950's. Jazzers like Colyer, Donegan, and Chris Barber made us investigate what the music was all about and where it was coming from. I couldn't agree more with all your comments on this video. Thank Goodness there are people like you Clifton, who really respect the music. You are definitely one of my all time banjo heroes. Thank you. Black Jake of Norwich, England.

[@abnerwhitewaterduck6723]

Indeed so

[@abnerwhitewaterduck6723]

I hate jazz... I find it disguisting... but looks like sometimes it can be good for things too

[@josephszalwinski5475]

I am new to the old time music scene, and in just a few months of watching different you tube video, I have noticed what you are talking about. It seems the "old time" has been hi jacked by the p.c. crowd. You are 100% correct. Thanks for standing tall and speaking out.

[@seaglass1111]

My dad, he's in his 80s. He plays the REAL traditional country... Hank Williams is his favorite.

[@RossArlenTieken]

I’m interested in our music as an extension of our culture. I’m like you: archaeology/historian/folklorist. Thank you so much for mentioning this and bringing it to light. It takes some courage. The music comes from the land and people.

[@StinkyParadox]

The greatest possible way to end video!

[@itsobvious5835]

This is my perspective as a novice. I grew up listening to string and grandpa. Before I found your channel, those are the two that had the sound I liked. When I found your channel It opened up a whole new can of worms for me. To my ears, you have a completely different sound than all the others. I’m no musician, but the best way I can explain it is you have more rhythm , and a deeper, slower tone. And you sing. Singing adds so much. For the most part, others play what I call “typewriter” banjo. They are very talented with the frets, but it doesn’t have the rhythm and unique tone. I can listen for about 30 seconds…. I don’t go to festivals.

[@CliftonHicksbanjo]

Please support my efforts 👇 Patreon: patreon.com/CliftonHicks SubscribeStar: www.subscribestar.com/cliftonhicks Banjo Heritage online course: banjoheritage.com Bandcamp: cliftonhicks.bandcamp.com Merch: banjoheritage.org/ Venmo: venmo.com/cliftonhicksbanjo PayPal: paypal.me/cliftonhicksbanjo Spotify: open.spotify.com/artist/7fQxc3ZY6LTVWkfxvsEPUV iTunes: music.apple.com/us/artist/clifton-hicks/1437321931

[@gray3553]

100% agree, in England its the same. We have a middle class folk music culture. Maybe its good that their preserving the tradition but its not the working people's tradition anymore they moved on. Can't speak for Scotland, Wales or Ireland.

[@conradwinchester1]

I live in the UK. I love playing Clawhammer. Tablature is one of my key sources of information. Learning by ear and eye on youtube is really difficult. I get what you are saying though.

[@oldjoeclark]

Great video Clif. Truth is we all need to realize it’s ok to be ourselves. This is where it’s at.

[@paulallen3557]

I completely understand what you're saying and have enjoyed your music for some time now. I hope you make some exception to The Stanley Brothers and Ralph's music. In addition, I would hope you'd not ignore that Larry Sparks continues to feature songs, from time to time at least, from days long past. Please remember, in this day and time, that such bands are the only way many people will ever hear Little Bessie or the little Orphan Girl, Handsome Molly and the old sacred numbers. I really like the songs you choose to perform.

[@neilterry1726]

Love the stinger at the end. LOL

[@cheesenoodles8316]

Grew up listening to KCRW "Wild Wood Fower" started at 5am every Saturday morning. Old time music on scratchy records. Only place to be found for me. What I liked was the different sound for the same song, maybe a change in lyrics. I found a recording of Tommy Jerryl relating how he learned an new song, listening to a friend play it. One time softly on the porch because it was early. I love old time string band music.

[@Mamlishways]

“Immature poets imitate; mature poets steal; bad poets deface what they take, and good poets make it into something better, or at least something different.

[@shenandoahbanjar1383]

Thank you, Clifton. Awesome insights! It's been really cool watching your subscriber numbers grow (i subscribed at 3000ish). Your signature sound is by far my favorite coming from modern players. I can tell from comment sections many others feel that way too.

[@deadbeatradio7831]

To our current ruling class rural people and especially southerners/Appalachians and mountain folk were parodied before but now we are hated. I don't like it but all I can do is have a ton of kids and know thy neighbors to keep the culture and faith. Btw your work is great and I hope the next foxfire book has your chords and lessons for banjo 🪕

[@joewalls7997]

So truthful, thank you for sharing a sentiment that I’ve had years. I learned both guitar and banjo from observing and listening to old timers in church and the community here in Kentucky. I’ve always sought to make the music my own while honoring traditional/folk styles. This is in my opinion the very essence of folk music, the passing songs and tunes from one person to another.

[@brentanllewellyn3898]

I suppose I never thought ov thee music in this way. I found you n your music recently because ov Billy Strings. You are awesome & amazing mate. I hope you know that. Peace mate from Australia cobber

[@johnbanjo5772]

Most of them seem to be the pretentious middle class left, playing the music of people they wouldn't want to be near in any other circumstance. However, Whatever anyones background,politics or reason to play, being in a circle jam can sometimes be a very uplifting experience.

[@katrinaKJB1611]

We no longer have the rich American culture that brought about true music. I'm a young person that is not coming from knowing that culture personally but seeing the great void that has been left in the wake of its destruction.

[@katrinaKJB1611]

@clifton hicks thanks for pinning my comment. I'm very much enjoying all the old time banjo music I'm discovering through your channel.

[@silasxiii]

I just discovered you a few days ago and you've changed my life for the better. Thank you for doing what you do, you give me a reason to wake up in the morning.

[@vicwhisman8116]

Absolutely hit the nail on the head! My cousin, Greg Howard, and I have often had this same discussion. We commonly refer to these guys who imitate authentic Southern musicians as "Yankee Folksingers." They're good technical musicians, but their music has no soul!

[@malaquiasalfaro81]

Sad but true

[@deltabilly1]

Amen

[@vinsamson8061]

Couldn’t agree more with everything you say Clifton. It’s just the same over here in the Uk. The supposed “Old time” festival scene! 🤢🤮They leave me cold and shivering! I make my own banjo music loosely based around old tunes but with my own influence applied and somehow I have come up with some sort of British Isles/American hybrid style as The marvellous John Heywood put it when he listened to one of my tunes! You are doing great work Clifton and I’m proud to be a follower and Patreon member🤘🎶🎉

[@vinsamson8061]

Oh and their faces when you start singing, is a picture to behold😂👌

[@CliftonHicksbanjo]

"old" time... 😅😭

[@jamesdaniel7]

BINGO, Thank you for preserving history

[@jeffcmo1957]

These are favorites Pilot Mountain Bobcats, The Freight Hoppers, and the Horseflies. Im from Rockingham county NC. Grew up listening to Lonnie Austin and the descendants of Charlie Poole. My dad is a multi instrumentalist old time musician. The music I grew listening to very much stressed individualism and creativity, making it your own. You hit this on the head. Thank you for your music.

[@taylortrew719]

This video truly made my day

[@taylortrew719]

Bo just said everything I been trying to say for years

[@K31JAN]

Finally a video I can comment on without some smart arse replying and creating a debate about politics. Yeah, the banjo community especially the modern overhand/clawhammer players are a bit weird, there is actually a debate about chords and single notes and melodies for some reason. I saw you post in the Old-Time and Clawhammer banjo Facebook group so hopefully you saw what I am talking about in there this is my issue. Some people in there are a bit closed minded about fretting and kinda make a big deal about how one does the job, maybe you might not think much of this but I believe one should learn every aspect of the fretboard whether it be chords and single notes and the melody stuff that feeds into both but the banjo players who are guitarists first which isn't particularly a wrong thing as the banjo is relatively obscure now and chords are a banjo thing as well as guitar but still closed minded and seem to be the overall population believe everything should depend on chords alone when a lot of old timers even the few and far between that are in the UK are known single note players and chords being just a cherry on top for show, may be wrong for some but it's right for others. Also before anyone sees this and thinks I am having a go, chords are on the banjo they're allowed definitely learn them as notes feed into chords but the point I am getting is at least know what to do to make yourself stand out and not make it bland especially if you do not sing...learn EVERYTHING. Smoke on the Water on the guitar is played with 4ths not full chords. Chords alone is just lazy.

[@K31JAN]

Also to those who are fans of Pete Seeger there is a video from 1991 banjo tutorial he did on KZbin saying "I got people started on chords but looking back I did it wrong chords can come later", the up picking stuff I don't view as different barring the up and down picking as it's the same principle with the bum-ditty, he would be telling you the same now should he still be alive.

[@mikehillas]

The reality is that most of the people (at least in the Northeast) who play this music are now middle class, highly educated, and have excellent jobs, often in engineering or some aspect related to computers or the internet. Most of the fiddlers (if they'll ever admit to this, and most won't) actually learned to play by taking classical or Suzuki lessons from an early age, continued through high school, and then went on to music school. This is a far cry from the background of the real "old time" musicians that you mentioned and others (Melvin Wine, Clyde Davenport, John Salyer, etc. etc. ...). My feeling is that the dominance of this music by these newer type of people has led to a culture of competitiveness and over achievement, rather than focusing on just having fun with a few of your musical friends. Does anyone really need a tune list of at least 300 tunes? The current old time music culture is defined by professional musicians who's seek to earn a living through it and to gain recognition for their technical skills, which in all honesty are usually very high. But is this really "old time" music or what it should be? Personally I don't feel comfortable with many or most "old time" musicians, and skip the festivals, which I think are geared to the "elite' musicians anyway. By the way, thanks for posting this video-it's nice to hear someone else is not enamored with the current scene.

[@bearshield7138]

Understand and much of what I have found with my visual art work

[@sbrons1]

Thanks, Clifton, for speaking this truth. For those of us who love and collect traditional and old-timey tunes, whether it's from LOC recordings or artists like yourself keeping the music alive, would there be a festival or venue that you would recommend? Where can one go to see traditional folk banjo and fiddle if you're not plugged-in to a community of musicians? Side note, when I was young I saw a video clip of Japanese violin students at Tommy Jarrell's house, like they were coming to see the master himself. However, while I found some old clips of Tommy Jarrell, I have not been able to find that clip of the Japanese students since. Did I imagine it?

[@CliftonHicksbanjo]

There are only two gatherings that I can recommend this year... 👇 Satuday, October 15th in Mallie, Kentucky, George Gibson is hosting a cane boiling party on his property. Link event info: facebook.com/events/789507042243273/ Saturday, November 12th at the Circle P Ranch in Mount Juliet, Tennessee, Matt Kinman is hosting a tribute to his late friend, Luke Bell. There will be plenty of real music at either event.

[@Chris_the_Dingo]

I recently re-located to near Mt. Airy, but haven't had a chance to check out the music scene yet. Almost everything I know about old-time banjo I learned from a two-finger piedmont picker, now in his late 80s, who played an old Gibson mastertone. So...totally different vibe from around here (even though he's won money at Clifftop and Mt. Airy) Hopefully the local scene isn't too click-ish, but we shall see.

[@CliftonHicksbanjo]

Good luck with that. What was your mentor's name?

[@Chris_the_Dingo]

@@CliftonHicksbanjo Marvin Gaster, from Sanford NC. He's a wonderful musician, singer, and storyteller. kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z2q0g5WYeNCHoNk

[@chriscampbell9191]

Tab was great if you didn't have access to much of the music. I have a minstrel banjo tab book, and it helped, because, at the time, minstrel banjo CD's were as rare as hen's teeth and the internet was still in its infancy. Even mountain music CD's weren't exactly plentiful, depending on the store.... Then I was able to find some minstrel banjo websites (the U Virginia one in particular), and that helped. I think it's best to try to learn the traditional way -- get the melody in your head, then work it out on the banjo. I call it the Hobart Smith method, because I read in the CD liner notes to a CD of his music that it's the way he learned tunes on the banjo. It's worked out OK for me, and then there's always YT vids, of course, where you can see as well as hear what's going on. With the 'Tube, we have infinite access to traditional music that wasn't really available before the mid 2000's. Personally, I haven't been exposed much to the 'festival' scene. Went twice with my mom in the 90's (she was dating a guy in a bluegrass band) and it all bluegrass. No mountain music. I thought the last sentence of this vid was pretty insightful. I've noticed similar a$$--les in the bagpipe scene. They'll criticise another player for the slightest mess up or even get down on them if they don't have the proper, name brand instruments. Sucks, really. Hurts the music.

[@jeremyreagan9085]

This is why us old time musicians are loners. My granddad was a folksinger and never went to any festival in his life and I have no interest in the modern supposed folk music scene. If you want fiddle and banjo I am your guy but, I do it because I love it and it is in my family that is where the folk music is in families nor festivals.

[@Chiefleif91]

I think there is a difference between historical folk music and current folk music

[@JacobvsRex]

Coming across Tommy Jarrell is what made me decide I wanted to focus more on old time Sorts of music with the banjo. I guess it’s no wonder that Jarrell ended me up here. Keep doing what you’re doing.

[@malaquiasalfaro81]

I am so glad you said this. I can say factually as a California boy, I was turned off to the banjo and a lot of country because of bluegrass And the “folksy” type of people. Some may call me a heretic for including bluegrass but it definitely suffers from commercialization too! I moved to East TN though and went down the rabbit-holes of folk punk and Jimmie Rodgers’ Blue Yodel, ultimately finding myself at the banjo from both directions. My mind was blown at the soul that comes from traditional folk music. The ballad lyrics, the polyrhythms, the ability the sing numbingly cold and dead or wail, or be a cocky old mountain boy! I’m saying this as a kid born in the 1990’s who had hip hop (and 60 & 70’s R&B) as his main musical influence for the first 16 years of his life. It’s hard to get my friends back home involved because traditional folk is so needlessly removed from the common people, and the sad part is it’s not because of rock or even pop, it’s because pseudo-folksy types almost stand as the gatekeepers to older stuff. Happens in Blues too when people act like BB King or Robert Johnson was “the start of it all.” No sir, most blues got swept up in the folk fever of the 60’s and lost its soul along the way.

[@robertsinkel445]

Clifton, the reason behind this is they don't know the life that birthed the music so the music doesn't have life

[@NarutoUzumaki-gl4jk]

speaking the truth

[@robertbritten3455]

Hi Clifton I have a build Question. What gauge metal is typically used for the tone ring inside the Mountain banjo ? I found an old round baking tin made of stainless steel about 1mm thick that I am planning on using. In the 1870's when you say that the mountain banjo came around, what types of metal would have been available to work with. Thin steel probably not. What about tin or brass and how do these metals effect the sound ?

[@CliftonHicksbanjo]

We can't prove the existence of mountain banjos before 1900; however, I would be not at all surprised if one turned up in an 1870s context. As far as what type of metal to use, stovepipe was a typical choice as it was widely available and could be readily sawn into usable sections. Your 1 mm thick baking tin sounds perfect to me. Tin, steel, brass, copper, etc. will all offer slightly different sounds. Tin sounds "tinny," while brass and copper are generally agreed to give a more pleasing sound. Most of the great tone rings of from the turn of the century were made of brass plated with nickel or German silver. The cheap tone rings were typically made of rolled sheet brass.

[@antoniotabboterrorist5992]

WELL SAID clifton, be yourself, blessings 🙌

[@goodoleme747]

It's funny because my father and I argue about this kind of thing often... he's very into the 3 finger style of banjo...commercial bluegrass while I'm into the traditional sound.

[@themaninblackleatherstudio]

I need to do this exact video on leather crafting. Good stuff brotha

[@straypuzzlepiece]

I've found that banjo has been a lot more of an intuitive instrument for me than guitar has ever been. Sure, I find chords for songs I like and recreate a song from there but mostly I've been able to come up with my own tunes, as bad or as good as those might be, since I've started playing. While I play Scruggs style some, clawhammer is my mainstay... I love that traditional style, traditional sound, and traditional storytelling. In Texas, its difficult to find folks that share that same desire to play that way. Jamming is jamming and there is skill that gets developed in that but when it boils down to it, I'd rather be spending my energies figuring out my own style of playing traditional music.

[@Rabbitears1]

Amen Clifton! Preach it!

[@philprice5712]

Less than a minute into this video and I couldn't agree more. I never feel so dissed as at an Old Time fest and I'm the local. Stick to your 'guns' aka your style Clifton. Its honest and we all need more of that.

[@stephenhenion8304]

Live music and jam circles are certainly at the core for the local guy. I got into Bluegrass back in 2007 at age 50. I had the time, took lessons and couldn't stop as I hosted Jams and became friends with lots of people. I found alot of competition and sucky attitude. But I found out I just had to be me. I'm a strong rhythm guitar player and singer. People could follow along real easy. We had a ton of fun...I went to Galax in 2007 and Clifftop in 2008 and 2009...some people were open to jamming and alot weren't...

[@lindichinkeye]

Keep doing your thing man!

[@nicke1903]

Down in Townsend/Cades Cove they did a festival that was as close as I've heard...Old Timey Days?? I believe it was, I really enjoy the craft, as I've gotten older I really appreciate a great breakdown.

[@Nomed38]

Even at the Bluegrass Jamborees and the like it is the same 50 songs and some new stuff. It's all sanitised, homogenized, water down, prepackaged, made for the average listener stuff that has more to do with fashion than tradition.

[@ZetaN7]

There is a big difference of imitation and inspiration.

[@grassshadow1]

Oh snap, my people are from Morganton, Ga....Ive been hanging out around Copperhill my whole life .

[@andrew8735]

Curious from a guitar player point of view (2 yrs in, with a small amount of banjo too), what if you learn primarily from a music theory perspective instead of shapes and sound only? My idea is that it will make my own creativity more seamless down the line, as well as help me understand how to combine different influences. I rarely rely on just shapes or by sound. All opinions welcome! Please educate me!

[@CliftonHicksbanjo]

I'll never discourage someone from pursuing knowledge. My view is that theory quickly alienates itself from utility, and tends to distract from more interesting things. This was certainly true of my theoretical training in archaeology and anthropology, for example.

[@andrew8735]

@@CliftonHicksbanjo thank you, I’ll always keep this in mind. Cheers from Charleston, WV.

[@clintchason9690]

Would love to have a conversation

[@WhiteLeviathan]

They don't want to compete with actual traditional tunes, and given the state of modern music, it's no surprise.

[@CliftonHicksbanjo]

Yes. They can only destroy; they never create.

[@carlopdebeeck1723]

I don't see the point. What makes you so sure to state that older musicians like Tommy Jarrell never tried to mimic somebody else. He wasn't born with the knowledge of all the tunes he used to play. So, he no doubt had to imitate others (as you say by ear). In fact, this IS the essence of folk music.

[@CliftonHicksbanjo]

Tommy Jarrell mimicked no one. _imitation_ ≠ _emulation._

[@vanceox]

Clifton, I always enjoy listening to you pick & sing. I myself quit going to “folk” festivals about 15 years ago........I can’t stand bluegrass anymore (they’re all a bunch of show-offs trying to copy Bill Monroe), and those who did play the great “old time” music are all gone or haves moved away. Also, it’s always seems that it continues to get even more “leftist” than ever! I enjoy playing a coupla tunes every other night by myself....I haven’t even gone to an open mic for almost 2 years. Anyways Clifton, keep on doing the music the way you always have, and thanks for keeping it “real”.

[@genngeorge9909]

Preach, brotha!

[@abnerwhitewaterduck6723]

Nice one

[@Unwritten_Pages]

I love learning about the history of music and banjos particularly. In another video you mention 3 and 4 string banjos, and a lot of the "purist" seem to scoff on anything that isn't a 5 string. I started on ukulele eventually acquiring a tenor scale banjolele. For Christmas this year I got a Lero 4 string resonator plectrum banjo, built in Japan in the 50-60's from what little in can find out. I ended up with a re entrant Chicago style tuning, basically like a bigger version of my banjolele, what I'm really wondering is if there are any videos on your page that would be worth my while to check out.

[@clawhammer704]

I live within a thirty minute drive to Mt Airy, NC. Don’t go to the festival no more. It’s all polluted with Aholes now. There is some few decent folks that still go but I just go to local get togethers these days.

[@Cliftyman]

The KY Old Time Fiddling Festival used to be folky. A lot of regular folks from the county would come and watch the competitive playing and we'd play in the campgrounds all night with people from all walks of life. The hippy element wasn't there. We'd play with the kids by our campers, eat lunch together, some folks from the local Church of God would come and sing, we'd share fiddle tunes... great times but that festival is no longer.... a lot of the old folks who used to go have passed.

[@mm111303]

Bring it back Cliftyman, I’ll come down!

[@anthonywyndham1996]

I love you dude

[@TheZippyMark]

I don't really know a lot about this type of music.......by which I mean I know nothing, but one festival I think you'd actually do well in is the biggest and best of them all, Glastonbury. That may not be your cup of tea perhaps, and it's a long bus ride, but they have an awful lot of different styles, and it think a lot of people would really like your stuff. As I say, I know nothing of this music in general, I'm a metal-head from England, so this is hardly my bread and butter, but I know I like your stuff. A lot.

[@blacksheepbanjos]

Well, I don't think I'll ever have access to a George Gibson or the like, so you're what I've got, Clifton! I'll do my best to learn from you but not imitate. I've never attended a festival, and have no real plans to, generally I'm just sitting around beating on this 'ol thing in my house by myself, lol. But I've been goofing around with this thing for about 5 years now, and want to get some of this mentality into my playing. Thanks for what you do to keep the fires burnin'.

[@sethkridge632]

Hi Clifton, What advice would you give to someone who is passionate about old time music/banjo playing (which in my case, comes a lot from watching your channel, so I thank you for that), and wants to really get the essence of the music, but isn't from America? As I am a South African who emigrated, grew up and lives in the UK, and I have no connections with America. It's hard finding people to play/sing old time music with, and learn from, as the folk sessions in my area play mostly Celtic stuff. I'm just curious to find out what your take on that is. No worries of you don't get round to replying to this, I'm sure you get a lot of comments! Seth

[@CliftonHicksbanjo]

I find a lot of overlap between "old-time" and "celtic" music. For example, I learned a song called "Boots and Leggings" from an obscure 1960s field recording of an old woman from Kentucky. When I uploaded the song, a viewer in Australia told me that his grandmother sang the same song! The song is known in America, Britain, Ireland, Africa, and Australia as "Old Man From Over the Sea," "Old Boots and Leggings," etc. There are a number of classic old-time banjo pieces with Celtic roots: "Pretty Polly," "Silver Dagger," "Charlie's Neat," "Bonnie George Campbell," etc. etc. etc. Too many to list. You might try exploring this area of overlap.

[@sethkridge632]

@@CliftonHicksbanjo Thanks for the reply, that's really interesting. Yes, I remember that one you uploaded, I seem to remember even reading the comment from the Australian! I will definitely check out some of those pieces. Thanks so much. I've always found it fascinating how folk music is so diverse across the globe but at the same time very similar, if that makes sense. Thanks again, Seth

[@aeae8840]

TJ was proud to sound like his dad, and Fred was strongly influenced by Arthur Smith. I have found most musicians strive to imitate or at least understand somebody. So to say Tommy Jarrell didn't copy anyone is just not accurate.

[@Daar234]

Reading the criticisms, have you considered organizing a festival?

[@georgenico8257]

When you say 1960s New York are you referring to the New York "Folk Scene"? And if so, do you see the New York Folk scene as an obstacle in the history of folk?

[@robertpalmer4806]

Play "I'm a Good ol' Rebel.

[@jamesdaniel7]

Hey man, let’s have an actual historic music festival right here in GA,

[@thomasdupont7186]

Too bad he doesn't give his definition of what he means by "tradition" although he used the word so many times....

[@Ronmon100]

Have you been to to Tennessee or Missouri gatherings? I experience a variety of different regional differences and players.

[@paltryicons4610]

Organized events are never a place to find truth.

[@Jock-jb3sy]

You the m an you the man more power to ya

[@democron341]

I agree with the end of your video about most modern players being assholes 😂 a few days ago in a fb group I'm in based on learning the overhand someone mentioned seeing a thread on a website called Bangohangout (apparently theres a thread dedicated to you Cliff 😂) but anyway his question was if playing single notes or chordal work matters thats a different point altogether (i personally dont think so as long as some melody and harmony is heard) but honestly people like the guys on that website are real assholes putting an almost gatekeeping onus on newer players who might want to learn the instrument in fact i even credited them as the reason the ukulele is thriving more and why the banjo for the most part is dead (lets be honest in terms of wide use it is) 😂😢 they're the kinda people who dictate how one should do anything. I am probably one of the few but unlike them i loved to hear an overhand with a bit of thump and nothing too polished the modern players barely hit the drum and call it "hurky jerky" (sounds like masturbating slang) when someone does I think it adds realness to the playing who cares as long as the basic technique in the playing is right? Thats just my view and gripe as you say. EDIT: obviously tune your banjo and get the overall method right at least but honestly don't be a polished turd those feathery playing guys who barely touch the strings when playing listen to typewriter musicians when learning but it all sounds the same make the banjo your bitch in bed and rock out

[@britlitemail]

This is less a comment on the old-time vs. authentic traditional music question, and more just a question on your opinion. You mention in the clip that the Clifftop/other festival type sound is not a true folk tradition. Where's the boundary for what is or isn't a folk tradition? I know that the dictionary definition of the term includes the necessity of a linkage to the past, I guess it's just not clear to me where that temporal line is drawn. Not a particularly meaningful hair to split, but it is interesting to consider where the folks who played the tunes that have become standards or evergreens or what not first heard them, how they got into the festival repertoire, and how/why they split off from the more clearly-rooted style that you and others play. Maybe that made some sense? In any case, cheers, and thanks for sharing the tunes and thoughts.

[@7027A]

Clifton, I am not a musician or even someone who follows the "scene" closely. However I fully grasp your point and it applies to so many things in life. Is it authentic? Is it genuine? Is it real and grounded and heartfelt? Or is it tailored to fit an expectation?