The Truth About the Tibetan Buddhist Theocracy

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[@lutherblissett5369]

Tibet was ruled by the Qing dynasty of China between 1720 and the establishment of the PRC in 1912. This is important because the executions you mentioned weren't a punishment for revealing some sort of esoteric Buddhist secrets but for sedition in the context of a series of treaties between Britain and China regarding the future of Tibet (in which Lhasa was not consulted). Blavatsky's associate was a Bengali engineer named Sarat Chandra Das, who retired to Darjeeling unharmed after travelling to Tibet as a spy to gather information for the British in the 1880s. When he was exposed, officials who had intentionally smuggled him into Lhasa were executed. The story seems to originate with secondhand accounts given by the British tibetologist Laurence Waddell in "Lhasa and its Mysteries" (1905) - none of which mention the 13th Dalai Lama being involved. Waddell also describes the reincarnation of the drowned lama as living in a monastery (not "callously abandoned"). Treason has never been taken lightly anywhere and this kind of punishment was common across Asia at the time. People were sawed to death in Japan. England only abolished drawing and quartering condemned men in 1870. China continues to execute thousands of people every year. Perhaps whether Tibetans are better off should be something for them to decide for themselves?

[@karenbowe6834]

This is why I posted Tashi Tsering's book. Anything that happened pre-invasion for which we are dependent on written documents is hard to contextualize. Tashi Tsering is still alive and would probably answer an email.

[@whyamihere2250]

qing dynasty of manchuria ahahha you chinese got overthrown by the munchurians

[@ytonaona]

@HardcoreZen did you see the comment of @lutherblisset above ? It seems you just read one version of a story and settled for it ? I don't understand this attitude. Isn't it somehow uncareful/uncaring to make such strong claims, after what ? Reading an account of 20 lines in a book ? If your intention is to warn about theocracy, then good, warn about it. But you seem to be going a step further when you claim "Tibet was so and so and Tibetans are better of now". You can't know that, can you ? __/\__

[@sotopla1]

Everybody is an expert on Tibet ! You know nothing of Tibet yet you talk like you are an authority on Tibet.I think you are an idiot! Why don’t you talk to any walking talking Tibetan living Free ! You might get educated both on history and a little bit on Buddhism!

[@isrealsaba]

Great response. Was about to respond only far less knowledged than this. Brad's video has been an all out, extremely polemic anachronistic attack on Tibetan Buddhism, disguising itself as an answer to silly idealistic individuals.

[@bernardjohnson8093]

Amen. Power corrupts, especially when its source is religious.

[@NONDUALSORCERER]

@Cavernicola and social media HAHAHA

[@luduvicomcdougall224]

I found Hardcore Zen, at a used book store. It resulted in me immediately ordering all of your other books, and pre-ordering The Other Side Of Nothing.

[@HardcoreZen]

Thank you. But you shouldn't have to pre-order The Other Side of Nothing. It's been available for almost 2 years now!

[@luduvicomcdougall224]

@@HardcoreZen it was prior to the release of Other Side.

[@t.c.bramblett617]

Like Dylan said.. don't follow leaders, watch your parking meters

[@markhoberg4088]

My favorite rock/pop/folk lyric ever.

[@apologeticsofemptiness]

Highly recommend Tibet: A History by Sam Van Schaik, which is full of stories about the theocracy.

[@Boonton2010]

I mentioned this book on your facebook back when you had the previous video. I didn't remember the title and I misremembered the story as happening centuries ago when in fact it was the previous Dalai Lama. Very cool that you stumbled upon the book on your own and found the same story jumping out at you! Does the book footnote the source of the story? I've looked for it again over the years to see if maybe anyone ever asked the Dalai Lama about it but never could find it.

[@user-gu7rm3rf8c]

China doesn’t give 99% of Tibetan passports in 2021 centuries.. is it fair you compare now and 100 years ago situation?

[@zenjazzplayer]

Regarding your appreciation of used book stores, for the past two years or so I've gotten most of the books I've read from several Little Free Library boxes that I encounter on my daily walks around the neighborhood. I am open to whatever the universe wants me to read. Because of this I have read many very interesting and educational books that I would not have read had I chosen books myself either in a bookstore or online because they were outside the range of my normal topics of interest, which are mostly zen and science fiction. I don't read all the books in the box, I am selective about which ones I read, so am am choosing which books I read, but from small random selections.

[@HardcoreZen]

That's interesting! Usually when I look in those Little Library boxes all I find are novels that don't look very interesting. Maybe I should try your method!

[@joeg3950]

People need to hear this. Any theocracy is bad - you’re right. Viva Ziggy!

[@Spectre2434]

Like Nahmkai Norbu Rinpoche said people have endless fantasies about Tibetan life that have little or no resemblance to what it was like to live in Tibet.

[@gc1200]

I'm impressed by the number of Philip K. Dick books on the shelf behind you. He dealt with organized religion a little in "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep" (but they ignored this in Bladerunner).

[@michaelcriger6359]

Seems plausible, but left wondering what the author's sources are and if there is any collaborating evidence or well-documented instances of similar behavior?

[@HardcoreZen]

If you look up the episode about the Dalai Lama from Penn & Teller's show Bullsh*t (it's on KZbin), there is a Tibet expert who says these things were common under the Buddhist theocracy. I've never done in depth research on it myself (or anything relating to Tibet), but I have no reason to doubt what they're saying.

[@somerandomwords999]

@@HardcoreZen "I've never done in depth research on it myself (or anything relating to Tibet)" - saved me 13 minutes 6 seconds of my life. Long live Xi Jinping long live CCP!

[@michaelcriger6359]

@@HardcoreZen Thank you for the reply. I will check it out. I always had a notion of Tibet as this peaceful simple country focused on spirituality, but now that I think about it, that's a pretty naive idea to have bumbling about it my head!

[@GrantSteven]

@@HardcoreZen Blavatsky never went to Tibet she just made it all up. She was a charlatan.

[@FlameRedCat]

I love you to do a video about the Theosophical Society!

[@goatsplitter]

Darn you Brad Warner! I had to check out the original song and now I can't get it out of my head! Totally crept into my zazen practice... the hot tamales and the red hot!

[@heidi5304]

It's good to keep perspectives balanced and I respect that you are willing to share opposite opinions to mainstream. At the same time it seems callous to say Tibetans are likely better off now. That compares levels of suffering on behalf of someone else. And also doing so without being a part of the community or living there. You are making an intellectual argument but behind that is profound suffering, loss and grief

[@HardcoreZen]

Yeah... Then again I think fewer people in Tibet are having their hands and feet cut off and their eyes gouged out these days.

[@heidi5304]

@@HardcoreZen I post this with due respect. You have been a teacher and yet I feel strongly so persist

[@heidi5304]

@@HardcoreZen what the 13th Dalai Lama did was horrific and torture too. It just seems the Tibetan people have suffered and continue to suffer incredible pain

[@heidi5304]

@@HardcoreZen well it didn't allow me to post links but reputable sources have multiple articles about burning, cattle prods, beatings, infanticide, forced sterilization and on and on

[@lorenacharlotte8383]

You have made a good point. Brad was a bit in a rush making his video and might have failed to express with clarity his point. However, these days there is a bit of dirt coming out to the Tibetan surface in connection with sex abusers. This is so like this that the Female Leader called Damcho from Dharmadatta Comunity somewhere in South America left her monastic robes since she couldn’t handle the thought of being nice nice quiet as if anything happens while many Tibetan nuns are sexually assaulted. Brad doesn’t have that kind of problems in his petit modest group.

[@starshiptexas]

Do you consider Thailand a "theocracy"? (in quotes since theo- has to do with god(s))

[@ndchieh]

You forgot to mention about current conflict between Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden.

[@radzo1675]

I had no idea about Tibetan theocracy. I appreciate the info. Doesn't seem like middle way behavior at all does it?

[@ldydyk]

You seem to have been a non-conformist your whole life. This clicks with me. It is the way I was brought up. Thanks, Brad.

[@jimbocrispy6908]

The irony being that you’re conforming to the notion of being non conformist lol, congratulations.

[@karthikraghunathan3363]

we need more non-conformists

[@jheffer8200]

Brad, that was absolutely atrocious. Are there any other instances with the dalai lamas / Buddhism that are similar or even compare? I've not heard of any of this before.

[@pertinaciousD]

Wait until you hear about the role of the zen sects in Japanese militarism during the first half of the 20th century…politics and religion don’t mix.

[@georgioman418]

Look up the " Crazy Wisdom" of Trump-ka (Chogyam) scum-bag Rinpoche...He was main root cheater guru for most American Tibetan students in the 70s. Free sex, drugs, and anything would go with the flow in his spontaneous crazy wisdom🤪👹💩.

[@jheffer8200]

@@pertinaciousD that sounds video worthy....

[@mikethebloodthirsty]

Buddhists in Tibet refused to modernise the country, the people essentially lived in the middle ages berift of the basic levels of sanitation, basic infrastructure was poor. They preferred to spend money on their palaces.

[@osip7315]

look at the wikipedia entry for "13th_Dalai_Lama", there was an awful lot going on, i'm not sure i believe that story unless it was done for unrelated poltical reasons

[@fraktaalimuoto]

Also it should be fair to note that whatever bad things he might or might not have done, the 13th Dalai Lama actually started to move power away from the theocracy. History is complicated and not just some simple minded tale of good and bad.

[@xs10z]

Yeah, I can find exactly zero corrobration. I smell agendas, and not only can I not find that book on-line in any form to read, purchase, order or borrow, I can't even find anyone who has ever talked about it besides Brad.

[@adamdacevedo]

BRAD, have you ever read an entire history of Tibet in book form? If Tibet was as bad as you say it was, where are all the protests and uprisings against the government, historically? Why didn’t the Tibetan people welcome and embrace the communist Chinese “liberators” if things were so bad and needing improvement? Normally, your analysis seems more reasonable and “right on”, but this thread seems way off…(perhaps like me you spend more time on Zen and have come to neglect Tibetan Buddhism…we all have our time limitations…) BTW, I recommend HOLDER OF THE WHITE LOTUS by Alexander Norman for an objective, unsentimental look at Tibetan history and the Dalai Lamas, as well as Glenn Mullin’s THE FOURTEEN DALAI LAMAS for a more favorable view…

[@daledheyalef]

You would probably also find the book "Red Shambhala" interesting if you haven't read it

[@fartguy69]

Ok but this begs the question, what were the "secrets of tibetan buddhism"?

[@sugarfree1894]

It's very sad what power can do to people, no matter how sad it sometimes feels to have no apparent power at all. I think Mme Blavatsky was also something to do with the promotion of Krishnamurti.

[@wladddkn1517]

Yes, she was his main sponsor.

[@macdougdoug]

Annie Besant had taken over as head of the Theosophists by the time J. Krishnamurti appeared on the scene, methinks.

[@HardcoreZen]

@@macdougdoug I do thing Annie Besant was more involved with Krishnamurti than Madame Blavatsky. Blavatsky may have been dead by the time Krishnamurti came around.

[@karenbowe6834]

Blavatsky died in 1891. She had left India for Europe in 1885. I don't know if she traveled back but considering her health and the difficulties of travel at that time I'm guessing no. Krishnamurti was born in 1895ish. His father was a Theosophist and moved the entire family onto Theosophist property in 1908 or 1909.

[@That_Freedom_Guy]

I guess there is a story that explains why they believe they can harm sentient beings. However, I have no idea what it might be. I will look into it, thanks.👍

[@TheOkazakiGuy]

As the saying goes, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. I've also heard Tibet was not so nice a place before the Chinese invasion, so what you say here doesn't really surprise me.

[@EdCross]

I seem to remember in Kundun the movie, the 14th DL wanted to to introduce democracy before escaping at 18. Not sure how much truth there is to this but he was/is enamored with the west, particularly science and engineering. I still think they should have been able to figure it out on their own and not been invaded.

[@crafty50golf]

A video on the Theosophical society would be pretty interesting. They are also who “found” J. Krishnamurti (I really like Jiddu and find his interviews/discussions/relationship with Bohm are amazing as a quick thing to share) as they thought him to be Maitrya. They put out content as well including a questionable book by Jiddu called “At the Feet of the Master”. He has never confirmed or denied writing the book but, if I recall correctly, it seems highly unlikely and that it was written by a society member who was his main handler (edit to add that it was a man named Charles Leadbetter who I think also found Jiddu on a beach while in India). Anyhow interesting group and cast of characters so if you do put out a video on them I bet it would be pretty engaging.

[@keeya_ks]

Krishnamurti denounced them later in life after they were trying to make him do things against his ethics and tried to elevate him to a leader which he refused

[@festerua]

I wonder why in such discussions people often forget boxers' rebellion of Chinese Buddhists? Not Tibet, yet Buddhism in full swing.

[@sawtoothiandi]

But we all do some bad things..last week i did 34 in a 30 zone..i defo do not need any sorta power..

[@seang836]

I agreed with everything you said except when you said everyone in Tibet is better off under their current rulers than their former ones. I haven't met a single Tibetan who would endorse such a statement.

[@ceeemm1901]

But have you met a Tibetan from before the Chinese?

[@seang836]

​@@ceeemm1901 Yes, many older Tibetans have seen both.

[@mindisbuddha]

It's very reminiscent of the new Florida "guidelines" for teaching the history of slavery. Except it's worse. At least De Santis doesn't claim that Africans were "better off" as slaves!

[@tomdebevoise]

Indeed this is an underreported issue. However, I am pretty sure anyone who has studied Tibetan Buddhism knows that unless you were part of the theocracy, A Lama, a Rinpoche, etc., you existed to serve the needs of the "exalted ones," including sexual needs. In addition, the punishments for crimes were arbitrary, cruel, and inhumane, including dismemberment and shackling outside, nearly naked, in the cold weather. I spent 10 years with the Tibetan Buddhists, and during that time, I was immersed in the Ngöndro practices. Ultimately, I left the group because I could not reconcile their beliefs and underwent an inevitable deconstruction. One data point is their hardcore belief in reincarnation. Another is their belief in the hell realms. All this said, I loved my teachers and friends in the community, and I learned many things. In addition, the many hours of meditation and prostrations improved my mind. Despite their barbaric past, we should be grateful for the contributions of the Dali and Tibetan Buddhists, such as Pema Chodron, for their modernized teachings; we have been enriched by literature such as The Way of the Bodhisattva and the Seven Points of Mind.

[@peterwilliam4722]

Well then.

[@rikcoach1]

When looking for a guru, slowly spell that word out loud and listen to what you are saying.

[@adamdacevedo]

A couple of questions arise from this thread : (1) has Tibetan Buddhism been of net benefit or net harm to the world, especially the Buddhist world? (2) is it a “sin” to “divide the sangha” by criticizing other Buddhist traditions? Early Buddhism had a cardinal rule like that. I’ve never been sure where you draw the line, or of the exact wording of that rule… (According to the Pali tradition, one of the pañcānantarya “five deadliest sins” of Buddhism is “creating a schism in the sangha…”, which probably goes back to the story of the Buddha’s evil cousin Devadatta trying to fracture the original Buddhist community…)

[@macdougdoug]

1) Tibetan Buddhism has been numero uno (or dos?) popular in the west. I may be remembering this wrong but I think even the Dalai Lama agrees with the fact that the Chinese invasion has been of tremendous benefit to Tibetan Buddhism. 2) Getting along harmoniously with our fellow humans is a powerful practise, is the important part of the 3rd jewel - I do wonder sometimes if the great Warner Roshi has made his peace with this issue.

[@Boonton2010]

I would respond: 1. Impossible to say. You're asking about of the multiverse of all possible universes where Buddhism came to Tibet in different forms, or never came, or other religions came to Tibet first (Hinduism, Christianity, etc), are many of them better than the universe we live in, worse or about the same? 1.5. That being said, I think we can say if you reran the universe again leaving everything the same, but not doing this one horrible thing, it would be better. So we can say Tibetan Buddhism could have done better and should learn from that error in the future, as should everyone else and all other faiths, philosophies, ideologies etc. 2. It is important to have the discussion since there is a lot of rhetoric around Tibetan Buddhism that seems to claim the Dalai Lama has some type of supernatural level of knowledge. If this is alleged to be the case, then those arguing that should explain this incident. If this is a misunderstanding, then the rhetoric should account for the confusion it may generate.

[@garudajingong]

I sense I'll be quoting you in one of my near-future podcasts. I'm all about taking down the fiction that is "Tibetan" martial arts. Thanks for the books as well. I'll be looking those up.

[@Teller3448]

I'm sure you can find all manner of atrocities committed by Buddhist authorities in China Korea and Japan as well. That was the way of the world prior to the modern nation state.

[@errornomessage5229]

Nice

[@quixodian]

A single account, from a single book, is rather a slender reed on which to condemn an entire civilisation, isn't it?

[@HardcoreZen]

The entire civilization? No. The corrupt and evil theocracy that ruled that civilization.

[@osip7315]

i just have to add this "you give them a bit of power and they turn into real buttholes" ACZC @!

[@fhoniemcphonsen8987]

Seems about right for a Theocracy. LAW & ORDER BABY The whole situation you're referring to at the end always struck me as erring on the side of caution arising from cowardice as opposed to an outright power grab. Or LemonGrab for that matter. (Finn / Jake 2024)

[@francobertossa6612]

Current Dalai Lama has said that he is against the tulku system.

[@JoeySalmon1]

That's pretty scant third or forth hand evidence...

[@adin4407]

Absolute power corrupts absolutely!

[@a.x.marcus4627]

Your videos are very triggering in a good way. lived in Macleod Ganj and it was hard for me to talk to anyone about these matters. The Maoist argument for the invasion (which included mass murder and destruction of monasteries) was to liberate Tibetans from an oppressive feudal theocracy. Based on mortality rate alone, China won that argument. Having said that, I have met Tibetans that spent 4 years in prison under torture just for saying the wrong things or for carrying a picture of the Dalai Lama in their pockets.

[@HardcoreZen]

Yeah... life under Chinese rule is definitely not ideal.

[@magpiecity]

I think the guy associated with Blavatsky was a "modernizer" and suspected of being a British spy. The case is also mentioned in "The Masters Revealed".

[@big3ye378]

You do realize that their is a lot of doubt that Blavatsky ever made it into Tibet right? Even withing the theosophical society many think she was there on an astral level or something

[@HardcoreZen]

I'm not at all surprised.

[@richardbailey8711]

I'm sure horrible things have happened everywhere, including Tibet, but that story sounds ridiculous. There are no " secret teachings " that can't be revealed. I would wonder who witnessed these atrocities and recorded them. What are the original sources for this tale?

[@davidmickles5012]

Brad appears to be less knowledgeable about Tibet and Tibetan Buddhism than he is about Zen - which is pretty astounding tbh. Oh well, it's hard to engage with this level of intentional ignorance so I'm not even gonna bother to try at this point. May he find happiness 🙏

[@lizhang5772]

The People's Liberation Army freed the serfs and redistributed the land after they entered Tibet. The nobility then started a rebellion and was defeated. Some of them fled to India and their leader received a Nobel Prize for Peace from the West. Every Chinese know this history, but Western media never mentions this.

[@jimbocrispy6908]

Because your version of history is nothing but communist propaganda and about as far from factual as you can get, that’s not to say western history is free from propaganda and bias but yours makes no attempts to remain even Remotely factual.

[@leeliu6867]

Exactly who fled was rich land lord

[@carmelaloperena8972]

Are you saying it is ok to forcible invade and overtake a Country???. Would you like happening something on those lines to your Country?.

[@HardcoreZen]

No. I am not saying that at all.

[@carmelaloperena8972]

@@HardcoreZen ; Thank you for clarifying. It was important to do so.

[@carmelaloperena8972]

​@scottccyoutube; Everybody knows in the West China invaded Tibet.

[@ukerocker]

Brad…what a terrible thing…I suppose it’s true, but how do you know for sure? Are there other reliable sources? I totally agree that power corrupts and quite easily…god, we humans really suck.

[@HardcoreZen]

Look up the Dalai Lama episode of Penn & Teller's Bullsh*t on KZbin. I'd look into the Tibet expert they interview on that show for more info. It's not a subject I'm keen on looking into in depth because the little bits I've heard already are so horrifying.

[@ukerocker]

Thanks…I will let my curiosity go up to a point…It’s like digging into holocaust survivor’s stories…how much horror do ya want? I have no doubt the 13th DL was what we would today call a ‘sociopath’.

[@saffronalgharbi3443]

Coragous to unveil the Tibet-Myth!

[@oldgrahammare]

Sounds about right though I think if China hadn’t taken over Tibet, British/American interests would have cleaned up the theocracy. Now do Bhutan.

[@mxvega1097]

That tune sounded like "Sweet Georgia Brown". I think it should be easier for people to recognize - beyond the sportsfan stuff of my team / your team / my dude in robes / my colors / my tribe - that for about 2000 years there were three despotic empires between the Turkic areas and the East China Sea: the Tibetans, the Mongols / Jurched, and the Han. All ruthless, brutal and despotic. The Han were terrified of the Tibetans. The Mongols ran China twice, the Manchu once. And in between there was a kind of militant equilibrium. No one really wanted to run Tibet except the Tibetans. The timing was all a bit crap that the Brits showed up with gunboats and prevailed over a weak dynasty, which nonetheless hung on long enough to make their boundaries - for the purposes of sovereign recognition - so much more concrete than previously. It is far more a matter of happenstance than design that the Qing Dynasty had suzereinty over Tibet right when bigger, stronger empires were establishing borders everywhere. And yes, my masters work covered inter-cultural contact in the Tibetan marches of western Sichuan. Well, someone's gotta do it!

[@johnhaller7017]

Trigger is the one with the white hat right? Gulp!? Just kidding, honest! Historical Tibet, as I recall, was a version of the pea and thimble trick. The Dynastic Chinese on the outer thimble , the middle one, Tibet and Mongolia the other end. Let the musical chair song begin. The first Yellow hat Lama to be given this title, was exiled in Mongolia, because the Dynastic Chinese were occupying Tibet at the time. So the actual title was given to the Lama then seeking refuge in Mongolia in the 1400's being The First Dalai Lama. Rebirth status, notwithstanding. His Tibetan name, Pema Dorje? At other periods of history it was Mongolia that held influence in ruling Tibet. The first Buddhist ruler of Tibet had become a Buddhist as a result of a strategic royal marriage to a Chinese woman and her sister, from a neighboring province of dynastic China. King Srong-brtsan-sgam-po (c. 627-c. 650).agreed to convert to Buddhism at their Father's insistence. Prior to this Tibet followed the Bon Po (Mongolian based animist faith)tradition. Tibet did not become a stable Buddhist theocracy until much later and reverted to the Bon Po faith again. Milarepa and Tsong Kapa, both re introduced Indian Buddhism at subsequent times to Tibet before it later became a unitary, Buddhist/Bon Po Theocracy prior to the People's Republic of China occupation of Tibet in the 20th Century. Tibet's strategic geographic position played a large role in it's unfolding history, and was as a result, therefore rarely ruled with any lasting autonomy. Nice intro on the acoustic guitar bye the way.

[@wladddkn1517]

Yes, that's right about Tibetan theocracy. The only thing, Madam Blavatskaya didn't no anything about so called secret teachings of Tibetan Buddhusm and all she wrote ans spoke about it was just her fabrication, as well as Annie Besant's.

[@HardcoreZen]

It seems like she was given some so-called "secret teachings." But it also seems like she fabricated her own version of things based partially on what she had received.

[@karenbowe6834]

Gendul Chopul though she was legit, just misguided. I think his book has the most thorough writeup of a practitioner's opinion of her, which until pretty recently almost always meant non-Westerner. I think it's interesting that afaik it's Westerners who are dead certain that Blavatsky was just making shit up, but people from Buddhist and Hindu cultures at the time and in the next generation don't generally think so. I am a Westerner and I tend to think she was making stuff up but that does make me go hmm.

[@wladddkn1517]

@@karenbowe6834 I think it is quite the same as Osho phenomenon for westerners - in India they don't count him among authentic teachers.

[@pn2543]

Lama Anagarika Govinda's 'Way of the White Clouds' gives a pretty interesting view of pre-communist Tibet from a Westerner who lived there well before the 'Five Years in Tibet' book. Anyway, it seems 1000 years of Buddhist cultivation had created quite a parallel universe of sorts, a truly different world that is now lost, due to the atrocities and genocide of the godless commies, alas.

[@mojoeye]

Good rbt johnson, Prabhu.

[@JeffEyges]

Old Tibet was a violent place, but to say the Tibetans are faring better under the Chinese is irresponsible. Mao's policy toward the Tibetans was genocidal; it's been estimated that 1.2 million Tibetans died as a result of the Chinese invasion and occupation. They've taken as many as a million Tibetan children from their parents and placed them in state run orphanages in an attempt to dismantle Tibetan society. The atrocities committed against the Tibetans by the Chinese government are a matter of record. I question the accuracy of the story about the 13th Dalai Lama having people tortured and killed. Firstly, years ago, I read a similar story (which may be a version of the same story) in which the victim was a minor official who had accidentally let some Westerners into Tibet, and it wasn't the Dalai Lama who ordered his torture. Also, I believe the Dalai Lama met Blavatsky. He certainly met Alexandra David-Néel and had no problem with her learning Buddhism. Secondly, Blavatsky was always claiming to be privy to "secret teachings". Thirdly, eternal damnation isn't a Buddhist concept. Buddhism has hells, which in some of the literature are described in terms that would make a Christian or Islamic fundamentalist faint dead away, but none of them are eternal. I agree that Westerners tend to romanticize old Tibet and I've been opposed to it for many years, but this story may very well be an example of Western imaginations being allowed to run wild, or perhaps even an apocryphal Tibetan story. Finally, "All is Change" is still in print, and is available on Amazon and other sites, as well as from the publisher, Little Brown & Co.

[@frankhill4358]

You write as if history stopped. Yes the Tibetans suffered under Mao but so did all Chinese. Now China is completely different and rich. The lives of Tibetans have now drastically improved.

[@JeffEyges]

@@frankhill4358 You simply don't know what you're talking about. Tibetans are still imprisoned for challenging the Chinese government. The Tibetan plateau is also being decimated environmentally in favor of development, which threatens the water supply of most of Asia.

[@frankhill4358]

@@JeffEyges poor serfs prefer development over your environmental concerns. How privileged and out of touch are you? Tibet had SLAVERY before the PRC, it’s crazy the lengths people will go in order to be anti Chinese. Oh and the west is in no position to speak on imprisoning people that challenge their rule.

[@frankhill4358]

@@JeffEyges poor serfs prefer development over your environmental concerns. How privileged and out of touch are you? Tibet had SLAVERY before the PRC, it’s crazy the lengths people will go in order to be anti Chinese. Oh and the west is in no position to speak on imprisoning people that challenge their rule.

[@frankhill4358]

@@JeffEyges poor serfs prefer development over your environmental concerns. How privileged and out of touch are you? Tibet had SLAVERY before the PRC, it’s crazy the lengths people will go in order to be anti Chinese. Oh and the west is in no position to speak on imprisoning people that challenge their rule.

[@LENIN990]

Wow. Eternal damnation....executions.... Buddha would be appalled. Yet he would really say: not surprised, these actions are common in the human realm :)

[@jesuisravi]

well, it sounds pretty bad (and that ain't good) but....assuming that all this really happened, already an assumption of considerable amplitude, it remains to be shown to what extent the Dalai Lama had executive authority in Tibet. I mean, was he more a figurehead, like King Charles 3 of England? Or did he wield actual power like the present king of Saudi Arabia? Probably it was something in between. I take the story with at least a few grains of salt. Also, Tibet has always been the Chinese idea of the Wild West. Violence was endemic. What seems to us unthinkable was likely everyday fare. For all we know, if it hadn't been for the Dalai Lama and a few others like him, things would have been much worse.

[@FrogmortonHotchkiss]

It's true that power tends to reveal people's corrupt egos... but if great power *inevitably* does this to everyone, even the Buddhas of the world, then both politics and spirituality are futile. Power is part of life. If I have an infant, I have total power over that infant. Some parents do abuse their infants. I think most don't. Love can prevail even where there is power. Power can be tempered with gentleness. Any movement to decentralise power still has to reckon with power and use power. The 'gentle martial arts' like aikido and judo, where you 'redirect the opponent's energy/aggression against them' still use power to slam people head-first into the ground. It's not possible or good to create a 'gentle' world by de-clawing every cat. From your one example from this book, the theocracy sounds disappointingly brutal, yes. Old Testament style authoritarian morality. But when you say 'theocracies are always bad', there is an implicit bias and assumption that we are judging them from a superior position as people who presumably live in the more civilised & kind Western world. No one has wreaked more mayhem than the Western world. But we have the technology and wealth to placate our citizens in the manner of Brave New World. This is not a difference in wisdom or morality. The Tibetans couldn't glue everyone to a smartphone and feed them Twinkies. In the West, it's a paper-thin veneer of Enlightenment values over an actual, conscious pattern of oligarchy & imperialism. The tech that enables someone to tweet their preferred pronouns also guides bombs that destroy civilians on a scale never seen in previous times. Our 'democratic' society creates industrial-scale hell and encourages us in our complacent sense of being insulated from it.

[@carmelaloperena8972]

Very, very rarely genuine, down to earth people get into Power Positions. Do you know why?. Because in order to reach those positions it usually is at the cost of something or at the cost of somebody. Ego is the Leader. Consequently corruption is guaranteed.

[@FrogmortonHotchkiss]

@@carmelaloperena8972 Yeah, everyone knows that. What is the answer? Only wisdom is the answer, and it won't be universal or even common anytime soon. I think that it would help, meanwhile, if we reduced hierarchical authority in the world. But the Western world isn't a shining example of this.

[@carmelaloperena8972]

@@FrogmortonHotchkiss ; What I was trying to point it out is that is not Power what corrupts but the road to Power. It is not that one becomes corrupted when reaching POWER. Corruption already started during the process of reaching that POWER.

[@FrogmortonHotchkiss]

@@carmelaloperena8972 Yeah, I get that. I have thought the same. For example, you look at journalism these days--it's a sham. Mostly rich kids who want to be in the club, pally with the elites they're supposed to criticise.

[@williamlawson7852]

Physiognomy checked, opinion rejected

[@romanilies119]

Agree with everything except maybe I know it is hard to hear for an American, but the worst government to violate human rights across the globe is actually the US government - it's not even comparable to anything else that exists.

[@StevenSmolak]

As an American, I wonder why our "liberation" campaigns have never been in the interests of those under atrocious regimes like Cambodia the Khmer Rouge Phnom Penn East Timor, the African countries here and there that could use a "Super Power" of the United Nations and such... being a war veteran and all, I hold even more refute and contempt for our "aims"- in my case, the Bin Laden Bank Account seemed most relevant. We are a country stuck to the media, obsequious, servile and fawning as a whole, dumbed down and okay with it, long as there are hot dogs, boats, pools and vacation spots; and we resist the strain and burden of the debt we incur to have it all. Guess maybe that's why we like being built up as champions and do-gooders so much, but, not for anything without a gain to it mind you. I come in peace and go in peace through these harsh words ❤️🌎🙏🏻

[@austinhill5825]

He never specified around the globe. American people have much more freedom being in America than Chinese people do being in China.

[@wangchitso5979]

Tibet history is tibetan know the best.. 😅😅 so let knowledge is dangerous 💯

[@mindisbuddha]

Practitioners of Japanese Zen should be a little more cautious about throwing around these kinds of accusations. If you know what I mean. And by now pretty much everyone knows what I mean, or at least should.

[@HardcoreZen]

I don't know what you mean.

[@mindisbuddha]

@@HardcoreZen Well, you know - guilt by association. It's always a lame argument, but especially dangerous for anyone associated with a Zen tradition that supported the Third Reich.

[@HardcoreZen]

@@mindisbuddha The assertion that THE ZEN TRADITION supported the Third Reich is untrue. There were people within the Japanese Zen Buddhist establishment in Japan who supported the Imperial government during World War II. This is true and it's shameful. But #1 not everyone in the Zen tradition supported the Japanese Imperial government's war effort and #2 the Japanese Imperial government was not the Third Reich. They were allied with Germany, and they did some terrible things, but they were not the Third Reich. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone in the Zen tradition who supported the Third Reich.

[@mindisbuddha]

@@HardcoreZen Since I've got your attention: do you want to rethink saying that Tibet is a "better place" thanks to being conquered and occupied by the PRC??? If you want to stand by that, do you have any theories as to why the Tibetans are so ungrateful to their benevolent overlords? You can't make sweeping statements like that and then expect others to take a nuanced approach to the historical fact that Japanese Buddhism is collectively guilty of supporting the Nazis.

[@HardcoreZen]

@@mindisbuddha Oh shut up.

[@Kingoftwang]

HOT TAMALES AND THEYRE RED HOT

[@MantrinDharmananda]

The problem is westerners projecting their idea of "enlightened state" onto Tibet, a myth developed by theosophists and gladly embraced by general public. Another instance of judeo-christian cultural codes in new wrapping. Tibet was a country with (oh horror!) corporal punishment, intrigues and infighting. Still, it was relatively stable for 300 years. Is there a European state that can claim the same? All conditioned is impermanent and it ended too. I'm kind of amused by how there are people able to live in fantasies about spiritual wonderlands on Earth, when others are disillusioned their high standarts are not fulfilled. People go on pilgrimages trying to find outside what they should realize in themselves. That's how to behold sacral landscapes, they are here and now.

[@gedfi]

Sweden can. But yeah, they are the exception - and before these last centuries, the Swedes weren't exactly know for their pacifism...

[@tatagram]

The story is a serious shit. But how you can be sure if it is a truth? Just because it appears in some book? I don't know...

[@xs10z]

Scholarship! (or not) What's a little slander between friends?

[@NONDUALSORCERER]

this is totally biased

[@benrusher581]

yes, this concerns me too.

[@tatagram]

@@benrusher581 don't worry:) it's probably not a truth. Otherwise it could be more statements like that around but there is one only from this fella's book :)

[@magpiecity]

Tibet before the Communists was probably like Bhutan.

[@JimTempleman]

They sure take their secret teachings seriously! More seriously than the precept against killing. I wonder what they are afraid will happen when such secrets are exposed? Could they believe that they would lose the power to enlighten people if the secrets got out? Or is it more a matter of keeping their vows of secrecy? It’s hard to imagine, given that we never hear of any references to Sakyamuni’s secret teachings.

[@wladddkn1517]

Yes, Mahamuni Shakyamuni didn't have, in his own words, "anything kept in the fist", which means there are no any secret teachings of The Buddha and any such artifacts are fake. But it is true that there are secret teachings of buddhistic tantrism which forms some core part of Tibetan religion. These secret teachings aka anuttara-yoga-tantra are about sexual magical intercourse.

[@tsudagenam6292]

Hey creator can you make another video about how life under white people is better than life under tribal native Americans. There are countless books on how life was with native Americans and if America was ruled by natives, it would resort to tribal warfare.

[@marqpsmythe228]

Lucky for Jesus, he got crucified at 30, dying before the inevitable corruption/ entropy and retrospective histrionic history buffs took their toll. Chögyam Trungpa salutes you Namaste 🖕

[@Flomo112]

It was interesting to read about pre communist Tibet. I can see the communists view.

[@ehrenschopenhauer]

Theocracies are great if their religion is good. Modern England is technically a theocracy. King Charles is the head of the Anglican Church

[@pearlyung]

Every 4 years, get rid of these humans

[@JuhaniSaarilehto]

Easy simple sentences. Ehh

[@vrth0mas]

Brother, you had me until you said that China has one of the worst human rights records. Life expectancy in China under the CPC nearly doubled from 40 to just under 80 years since Mao and the revolution; I do not say this to excuse any misgivings by the government, merely to say that when the communists took power they reversed an immense amount of damage done by the very countries and economic powers who benefitted from harming China directly, and who are on the verge of losing their economic supremacy to China in the coming years. The accusations levied against China (which have been long deescalated from claims of "genocide" to "human rights abuses") are the very actions that the US is itself engaged in: The detention of Islamic minorities without due process under the guise, legitimate or not, of fighting international terrorist networks. None of this is to deflect from any ways that any government can improve, but to make a comparative statement like this reinforces the notion that Western nations are morally superior and must police China, when they had already abused this power dynamic in the past. The fact of the matter is that life in Tibet is so much better under the CPC than Tibet that to bring this up is merely to appease the nationalists, racists, and Western supremacists who think they have any business telling other nations to treat minorities better while embroiled in massive protests pushing back against racially motivated killings by police. People in Tibet live to see their grandchildren grow up now. Things can improve and they always should, but it's absurd to compare the progress of one country to that of the countries that raped and pillaged them for a century. It's easier to have better human rights when you've stolen the rest of the world's shit and don't need to work as hard, fight as hard, excel as hard to catch up with people who have robbed you. The West has lethal intent for China; if they aren't working 6 days a week, training their youth to be soldiers and cutting themselves off from European influence that seeks to undermine them again, THEY WILL BE CRUSHED BY THE U.S. WAR MACHINE. None of this would be happening if China were allowed to develop in peace. All of the worst periods of China's development over the last century are attempts to recover from the exploitation of colonial powers. The revolution was them telling us, and the fascistic dictators we propped up, that they weren't going to allow us to steal from and dictate them anymore. White people criticizing the ethics of their former slaves is as abhorrent as it is ludicrous. China is improving faster than any country to ever exist; we should help it continue to do so rather than criticize them for not being what we want them to be.

[@BarbarraBay]

Hardcore BS

[@praveenb9048]

I recently read a novel by one Lionel Davidson that was set in Tibet just at the time of the Chinese takeover. It included some unvarnished, disturbing depictions of both the theocracy and the communist regime.

[@gramsci420]

The dude that you saw on Penn & Teller’s show is a guy named Michael Parenti. He’s fairly well known in academic circles as being a pro-Soviet historian who spends much of his time prettifying Stalinist regimes, China for example. Did he say anything particularly untrue? No. He does so however in order to paint the oppression of Tibet by the Chinese communist party as liberation from a backwards theocracy rather than cultural genocide which at this point is difficult to deny. I thought it was rather disingenuous of Penn & Teller to pass him off as a dispassionate academic when his raison d’être is well known.

[@sasapajic4539]

You provide no proof of this and no research......so yeah

[@guyolive1071]

Trigger warning? I wouldn't apologize for reality, either you can acccept it or you can't. Just me, but then I'm an asshole, apparently.😆

[@williemacbeth6455]

you were doing rally well until you started bad mouthing China. Educate yourself

[@Call_Upon_YAH]

They who have ears to hear, let them hear: Through the Holy Spirit, God has put it on me to preach to those lost in the devil's deceit! I tell ye, truly, Jesus of Nazareth is the propitiation for the whole world's sins. He is the anointed one, for he is, Jesus Christ. God the Father has raised him from the dead; who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God! Angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life: no one comes to the Father, but by him. They who believe and are baptized with the Holy Spirit shall be saved; but they who believe not shall be damned. For they who believe not on him, shall die in their sins! I tell ye now to repent of your sins, accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, and you'll receive the gift of the Holy Spirit upon asking the Father! There are *NO* sub-divisions of Christianity. You're either a disciple of Christ or not. A Christian is someone who follows God's word, not a religion. Who obey the Father and follow his will; not man's nor their own heart's. Unless you keep Jesus' commandments, think not the Holy Spirit will dwell within you! They who heed this message and did what was stated with an open heart to God... Read the Holy Bible (KJV) daily and every time before you read, pray to the Father and ask: "Lord I ask that you give me understanding of your word, that I interpret it the way you want me to, and none of my own. I ask you in Jesus' name, amen." 1 John 2:2 KJV 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. Acts 13:26-33 KJV 26 Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, *and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.* 27 *For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.* 28 And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain. 29 *And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre.* 30 *But God raised him from the dead:* 31 And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people. 32 *And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers,* 33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. 1 Peter 3:22 KJV 22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him. John 14:6 KJV 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. Mark 16:16 KJV 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. John 8:24 KJV 24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. Acts 2:38 KJV 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Luke 11:13 KJV 13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him? John 14:21-24 KJV 21 *He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.* 22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? 23 Jesus answered and said unto him, *If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.* 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and *the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.*

[@HardcoreZen]

There are no sub-divisions in Christianity?

[@kungalofofamww2anzacroylen413]

Tibet was ruled by the Qing dynasty of China between 1720 and the establishment of the PRC in 1912. This is important because the executions you mentioned weren't a punishment for revealing some sort of esoteric Buddhist secrets but for sedition in the context of a series of treaties between Britain and China regarding the future of Tibet (in which Lhasa was not consulted). Perhaps whether Tibetans are better off should be something for them to decide for themselves? BUT ONE DOES NEED TO MEDITATE ON THE DANGERS OF THEOCRACY IN WESTERN STYLE DARWINIST SECULAR DEMOCRACY I NOTE SOME FAULTS OF THE DALAI LAMA 14 DALIA LAMA 14 MET WITH GRETA THUNBURG TO LEGITAMIZE CLAIMES OF HUMAN CAUSED CLIMATE CHANGE WHICH APPEARS TO BE A ROTHSCHILDS ZIONIST HOAX AS THE EARTH HAS WARMED AND COOLED BEFORE DUE TO FLUCTUATIONS IN SOLAR IRRADIATION AND MURDOCH ETC ARE THE PEOPLE WHO ALSO OWN EXMOUTH HAARP CLOUD SEEDING TECHNOLOGY FOR GEO ENGINEERING WEATHER AND CAUSING FIRES FLOOD DROUGHT AND J P MORGAN STOLEN TESLA TECH PATENTS CAN CAUSE VULCANIC ERUPTIONS AND EARTHQUAKES DALIA LAMA 14 ALSO APPEARS TO BE A CIA AGENT WHO TOOK COVID19 VACCINES AND ENCOURAGED HIS FOLLOWERS TO FOLLOW SUITE AND THIS HAS DIRECTLY CAUSED INCREASES IN OVERALL DEATH RATES WHICH IS DUE TO STROKES AND HEART ATTACKS OCCURING IN YOUNGER POPULATIONS AND REPEATED VACCINATIONS INCREASE RISK OF STROKE OR HEART ATTACK SO THIS ENVORCES WORLD ECONOMIC FORUMS TRAVEL LOCKDOWNS AND BANKRUPCY AND STARVATION AND DISEASE IN INDONESIA AND AUSTRALIA CAN BE BLAMED ON THESE VENETIANS WHO MOVED NORTH INTO EUROPE DURING CRUSADES AND STILL CONTROL EAST AND WESTERN TRADE ROUTES FOR THESE BAVARIAN ILLUMINATI KHAZARIAN ASKANAZI SEMETIC MAFIA THE DALIA LAMA 14 TOLD ME HE DID NOT UNDERSTAND THE SYMBOLIC MEANING OF THE HINDU BUDDHIST VAJRA AT YAMATAKA COMMENTRY SYDNEY 2015 EVEN THOUGHT THE DALIA LAMA IS WORLDS FORMOST EXPERT ON VAJRA YANA , I WAS TAKEN ABACK AND SUGGESTED THE DALIA LAMA 14 WATCH AUSTRALIAN PHYSICS EXPERT WAL THORNHILL "SYMBOLS OF AN ALIEN SKY" "THUNDERBOLTS OF THE GODS" MOVIES WHICH EXPLIAN THE BALI HINDU BUDDHIST AND TIBETAN NEPALESE VAJRA IS A SYMBOLIC WEAPON OF PLANETORY DEMIGODS AND SYMBOLISES A THUNDERBOLT OF ILLUMINATING LIGHTENING, WHICH THUNDERBOLTS PROJECT ELECTRIC UNIVERSE THEORY SUGGESTS IS THE RESULT OF INTERPLANETORY ELECTRIC DISCHAGE SIMILAR TO WHAT SHIPS EXPERIENCE WHEN POCK MARKED ELECTROLYSIS MOORED IN THE ELECTRICAL SALTY OCEAN BATTERY. WHICH WHEN VERY STRONG CAN BE LIKE AN ARC WELDER PLASMA BLAST ON EARTH. I WAS EXTREEMLY SADDENED BY THE DALIA LAMA 14 REPLY "OH NO I BACK BIG BANG THEORY THAT IS THE MAINSTREAM WORLDVIEW" THIS IS SAD BECAUSE STEPHEN CROTHERS "PARRALAX EFFECT OF SHORT HAIR" DEMONSTRATED EINSTIENS GENERAL RELATIVITY BLACK HOLE WORM HOLE MATHS AND LOGIC IS ERRONEOUS AND THEREFORE INCORRECT PROVING THESE DALIA LAMA AND TIBETAN THEOCRACY IS ECTREEMLY DANGEROUS AND CONTROLED BY ISREALI ROTHSCHILDS ZIONIST OPENHIEMER EINSTIEN MANHATAN PROJECT WAR CRIMINAL WHO ALSO NUKED BUDDHIST JAPANESE CITY LIKE NAGA SAKI AND HIROSHEMA TO BRING A QUICKER END TO WW2 WHICH WAS PROBABLY TOTALY UNECCESARY AND A WAR CRIME.

[@herratossavainen9669]

mindless babble with hint of truth about old tibet