The Truth About Zenith VR

[@Porthos701]

When a gaming company bans people for negative steam reviews, that is a serious red flag….

[@crandom3434]

Like overwatch 2

[@Sirveaux]

Not only that, but I'm convinced RamenVR made private accounts just to troll negative reviews.

[@kenjihotta4417]

This breaks my heart to see what happened to this wonderful world. #saveZenith

[@kitrunedust]

You've articulated so many of my thoughts. Zenith was SO special to me. I have so many memories of adventuring with my friends and creating incredible memories with them that I'll carry with me for years to come. The game made me so passionate and inspired me to make so much art and content, because it was a world I was fully immersed into and adored. I loved logging on every evening after work to hang out with cool people and work on getting better at the game, and continue down this journey I was on. And I'm so, so heartbroken that the game became what it did. Thank you for articulating my thoughts.

[@VRCentral]

What sucks is that I can think of at least 10 other gaming studios right off the bat that need to hear stuff like this but they just ban you from their discord/game if you say anything negative or even try to help by pointing out a bug that should be fixed.

[@Tomtommer]

This is why the concept of 'voting with your wallet' is so important in the modern gaming market. Players are the ones dictating what we deem acceptable, not the developers. The incentive for developers is money, so remove that incentive and change their behavior.

[@uraveragewiteguy]

Cough cough* ghosts of tabor

[@R0N-VEEAR]

@@uraveragewiteguy yea but unfortunately those kiddies log right back in after complaining about this

[@greasycheese8095]

​@@uraveragewiteguy the lead of the game studio is an entitled brat with a huge ego

[@jellylegs_1925]

Zenith did it to themselves. 2 years down the drain.

[@BashfulNuke]

They really did. They failed to align with their audience's expectations. Faced with significant challenges, they lacked the foresight and adaptability to seek out and implement viable solutions. Ignoring the ideas and pleas from their community was a missed opportunity they just couldn't afford. It's a classic case of not listening to the very people who could have helped them thrive. One of the highlights for me in the game was the flying glitch. Mastering it allowed you to ascend, creating an incredible feeling, It was genuinely one of the coolest experiences I've had in gaming. It's so crazy you would take something like that away from people. While it would have been great if they had reworked it to accommodate everyone, the mechanic itself was undeniably enjoyable and brought a lot of fun to the game.

[@AshtynKC]

​@BashfulNuke yep when thay took the flying glitch out it took the fun away for me because that was the my best experience I had

[@jacdreams3861]

@@BashfulNuke Yes. Though, the Blademaster dash allows you to fly with some high-speed, or ascension

[@chronohax7186]

@@BashfulNuke i dont even follow wtf happened, but remember playing on launch and the great moments with lots of people finding new thing, now after watching this video, now i get why me going back in feels so bad, cus zenith is way worse than last city (played that on quest, and nexus on steam pcvr), the tutorial just feels like void boring singleplayer game especially with how empty the world and no one is there..

[@myronkellogg7144]

Ilysia better take fucking notes

[@FrontwaysLarry]

Well said, dude. I tried Zenith and it wasn't at the level that I could sink my teeth into it, but I continually saw the potential from it and anytime I hopped in, the community would be the warmest and most fun people I'd ever met in VR. Zenith, just for me, failed to accomplish the test of "if it wasn't in VR, would I still play it?", but I still loved the potential of the game so much. It was just always on a the precipice of greatness and unique identity. It was just always missing one ingredient; some way of trying to push the envelope of what a VRMMO could be... All they had to do was somehow convince the plethora of people that already owned it to just press play, but could just never do it. Honestly, I want a VRMMO so badly, but now I'm afraid of this whole fumble having a ripple effect to any other devs wanting to attempt one for themselves. I'm seriously so confused as to where all this money they made went to. They had so much funding and just... Failed. If they can save this game I'll be happy to give it another shot, but this is just such a sad loss for VR on some strangely varied levels. Again, well said. I really hope people watching truly appreciate the passion you've got for VR and how much you serious try to be a driving force out there, not just someone making videos on KZbin. You're consistently one of the most diehard VR enthusiasts I've ever seen, and it's sad to see that the team at Zenith couldn't listen to one of the few bigger channels actually giving their game the time of day to try and help.

[@Mr-Mad-VR]

When toast swears you know it’s serious but when he swears TWICE it’s REALLY serious BUT WHEN HE SWEARS MORE THAN 4 TIMES I DON’T EVEN KNOW WHAT TO SAY #savezenith

[@psyonik1]

I'm less concerned with the profanity. The fact that he straight up said the words, "suckin 'em off," was what got me...

[@jakubpawlowski1426]

@@psyonik1 I'm sure you'll live.

[@cestlarie]

Well said, Toast. Zenith will always hold a special place in my heart. While the rest of the world tried to stay connected to people during the height of the pandemic, the Zenith community was having a blast with people all over the world. I met some amazing people in Zenith (you included) and still call many of them close friends (or VR Fam) to this day. But I was heartbroken with what developed (or didn't). I'm still heartbroken. But your video, the comments, and the likes show there's still a community out there. I hope someday we all find ourselves together again in a well made VRMMO. I'm just sad that I don't think anything will ever have the magic Zenith once did. Thank you again for sharing your thoughts. Your words touched my heart.

[@supersquidcat]

Gonna go back and rewatch the Zenith videos you made as a goodbye to Zenith

[@agey4988]

Love you Toats, but honestly. Like we talked about, our opinion haven't been heard or listen by the studio. Like you said, a bunch of yes man in the background not telling them what they should have change. Beeing part of the staff team was really fun until they start seeing me as an enemy and respectfully asked me to leave the staff team. It was tough to see that, seeing all that staff members simping over the studio. I was the only staff screaming out, loud things needed to be changed. After leaving the staff, I started doing more testing, explaining how stuff was broken, bugged or glitched. Took them months to even consider speaking about godstone, raids, quests and UI bugs... For a while I tried to be positive and helping the community, but unfortunately seeing all those yes man and blind players, I had enough. Stopped playing for couple months, then tried their Skyland patch. What a shit show, why recreating another tutorial, when they already worked for a year on the Academy... I was baffled. Then recently I got ban from their official discord while I was discussing with new players about how the IR should have been something else and even saying what you said in your video. Making TLC free and adding cosmetic shop or even subscription. Got ban for supposedly being negative even toxic... I always said my opinion out loud without being toxic. I'm not known to be toxic, but a realistic person. This stuff was the last drop. I don't want them to lose their game, but they honestly deserve it......

[@dragoncoo9961]

I can't say for most people, but I know you worked the hardest for the games' health. Giving them mile long feedback and bug reports with a 5 page paper for godstone skills. It's so sad that past devs have told me they wanted to work on the fixes but were told, "Don't worry about it."

[@Tomtommer]

Guess you joined the group I was a part of too? People who had some sort of assisting role but spoke up nonetheless and got banned for it. I assume the current mods/ admins all kiss the emperor's ring blindly? IR is a dumpsterfire, and TLC is not going to recover, so take comfort in knowing that critical people were right, and that they all did the right thing in the face of certain judgment.

[@Eloderung]

They banned pretty much every single pillar of the Zenith community. Every single person who tried to contribute as much as possible to keeping the #1 VRMMO going for years and attempting to make it better. It's absolutely disgusting.

[@Tomtommer]

@@Eloderung Vote with your wallet. If Ramen insists on destroying their game, monopoly position and company, just let them. Player have held them afloat long enough for them to realise what they're doing is wrong. If they don't want to learn the easy way, let them find out that their actions do have consequences, in this case in the form of a dead game and a disappearing community. Some lessons can only be learned by making the mistakes. There's no need to feel bad about it, there will be other games, including other VR MMORPGs to fill the void Zenith leaves behind as it disappears from people's memory.

[@PuppetDev]

Wtf I know you, that's crazy! Wasn't aware that you were that deep in the game though, that must really suck. I literally just now found out that it's overwhelmingly negative on steam. I haven't played the game too much since launch, but it always had a spot in my heart. I was loosely following their updates, hoping they would create something decent at least. Last time I came back I really enjoyed climbing the tower thing. I was hoping for more unique experience like that. However, it's very disappointing to see people getting banned for such petty reasons. They are just flushing down all remaining goodwill they might have had with the players, even despite all the weird decisions. Sure, it it's not the perfect game, but they are on the forefront of innovation when it comes to VR and MMOs. All they have to do is just make it slightly better and people would love them. There really is no reason for them to drop the ball as hard as they are doing...

[@Divine-YT]

Couldn't have said it better homie. #savezenith

[@dragoncoo9961]

My boy divine. Done dirty

[@Divine-YT]

​@@dragoncoo9961 I can't say I tried, I wish I was just listened to.

[@dragoncoo9961]

@@Divine-YT there's so many that wish they were listened too. If only it was a little

[@B0W1E]

And this is were he gets banned from the discord and game like everyone else who talk about the real problem 😂

[@dragoncoo9961]

@B0W1E already happened to both of us. I got banned for helping people play the game because they broke visual desktop with the oculus version with them saying I manipulate the files. Divine just gave feedback and finally got banned when one mod white knighted XD

[@blazinginferno2237]

My dream is to make a game and maybe if I can build up the right team and set of skills. Maybe sometime in the future I could try to make a VRMMORPG

[@tinymonk9207]

It’s sad for this game to have a major down fall this game was really fun with friends in till players hit max level then the game just get boring cuz the max level only goes to 40 and welp now when ever I join i see every sever are at low, but the game really needs a brad new update new graphics, new gameplay, better weapons, story, more character design, and welp just something to keep players interested in zenith. But yet they still haven’t down anything for except bugs, this game was supposed to be inspired from SAO, but it failed.

[@mrtizio13]

The christmas event with the santa hat and the rare pet was really fun because it made people of all levels converge towards a single event making it feel populated, they didn't even copypaste the same event for this year's christmas... not even that.

[@dragoncoo9961]

Even though more than 75% of the game was copy and paste already. That Christmas event was the most fun I've had with the community. Could grab the nose of the snowman and held on while it despawned keeping you in the air. The fun wacky ass snow flakes XD. That was fun

[@robertor2620]

and during a talks the community asked: "why don't you do a Christmas event this year?" the answer was "unfortunately we don't have time.." and then they asked: "so why don't you just reactivate last year's Christmas event?" and the answer was "ah yes, that's very simple to do.. good idea.. we can do it" but instead.. no...

[@dragoncoo9961]

@robertor2620 Holy I can't believe they didn't reuse it. XD. I could swear they would but judging by the issues it had that doesn't surprise me then

[@LoveableLina]

It all started with the servers, and then it seemed like there were a lot of excuses for why even simple things couldn't be fixed. I heard directly from one of the devs (not gonna call anyone out, though) that even fixing something as straightforward as a floating tree was met with the response, "It would take someone going back and finding the tree in Unity, and it would take too much time." That line just stuck with me and made me realize how little they actually cared about their own game. I work with Unity, and while I may not be creating whole games, I'm always willing to redo stuff until it's right, no matter how small. I even offered to help for free because I believed in Zenith so much. I bet there are others who'd work for next to nothing just to fix simple things, so the devs could focus on the big stuff. And let's not forget the favoritism towards high-level players and the heavy reliance on Discord for everything. I get it, but not everyone's on Discord, and it was sad that the player base was so quiet at that point that you had to reach outside the game just to talk to people. Plus, most of the good stuff was locked behind being high level and doing raids, so new players were out of luck most of the time. As for me, I've never been a fan of raids in any MMO, and most other games have alternative ways to get stronger or progress. Zenith just didn't have that. Then there's the issue of leaving broken things unfixed but then "fixing" things that made the game fun. Like, what's the big deal with fast flying? It was fun! Instead of getting rid of it, they could've tweaked it and made it an actual thing. It was like they found it so easy to do, and going really fast actually took skill. But important things like the healing water ball falling through the map took forever to get fixed, and even after that, it wasn't a sure thing. I could go on, but the bottom line is, despite everything, I'm only disappointed because I believed in Zenith.

[@Sirveaux]

I was an engineer for Microsoft and I reached out to them via LinkedIn to help with the game. I was more or less willing to work for free. I never heard back.

[@FlorianFahrenberger]

That was so honest and raw and true. When I started playing Zenith, I felt that there was something special there. The gliding and fighting, and the community. Oh, the nice people in there. I actually made a framework for modding it back then, only to mod bhaptics support into the game. The devs agreed to integrate it natively, they really only had to copy-paste my code. And they botched it. And even when I pointed out how to repair it in 30 minutes of work, they didn't, and the native bhaptics integration never even came close to my mod. At that time though, I had already reached level 40 with all my characters, using my own bhaptics mod, and I had stopped playing. Sad to see this one go, I did actually spend more hours in Zenith than in most other games.

[@DiamondDepthYT]

Thank you for this video. #SaveZenith

[@PheNixie]

I still remember being there on launch day, feeling a little disappointed at the total lack of change from the beta, but feeling optimistic that this game had some real heart and charm. Me and my friend just went around with total strangers for hours, just getting people started and showing them what to do. But due to the lack of things to do, and wanting to experience other games, plus my own game development job keeping me busy, I haven't played since the first update. It makes me so sad to see such a huge potential go to waste like this, its horrible watching people flounder one of the closest games to a complete VR experience.

[@M3NTALX]

I’m a kid a 13 year old kid I started playing this game when I was 10 it opened my eyes made me a better person more mature and I’ve been watching your videos ever since that first zenith episode I know it sound stupid and dumb but this game has changed me as a person completely this game was the reason I continued playing vr around the time this game came out I was giving up science I have been playing science quest 1 but this game really did h give me hope and it does bring tears to my eyes to see it go this game way I have made so many friend and put so many hours in this game like you I’m questioning if zenith is going to be able to get better from the state it is in right now and I have tried to make myself know but I can’t make myself known so I’m asking if I make an account if I can join you play a few games with you make people notice me and give me a start up from your account just maybe there will be an extra bit of hope that zenith will become better than it was before it’s up to you I totally get it if you don’t want me to play with you or be on your channel but I’m in desperate need for this game to be revived so please toast give me a chance you and zenith are the reason I still play vr with so much hope to this day so please give me a chance

[@CloudDealing]

You've said everything I could possibly come up with. I hope Andy knows that this is directed at him. #SaveZenith

[@arcusoaurelius]

Who is Andy. I want to speak with him.

[@CloudDealing]

@arcusoaurelius Co-Founder of RamenVR, the owners of Zenith.

[@kingShadowNSG]

You were the one that introduced me to zenith when i was new to vr. i saw how much fun you were having on the beta and knew i had to get it. i spent so much time on this game and its sad to see the state it's in now. It has one of the best communities in any game. i played for years and never came across any toxic players #savezenith

[@Let_her_solo_me3]

Theres no combination of words that exist to express my frustration and sorrow that such an amazing concept turned to this, where balancing is so bad that Healers and Tanks do more damage than DPS, where gaps in the ground and floating trees are the norm, where reskinning the same enemies and same bosses is just an okay thing to do. I remember all the amazing memories and adventures I went on during release and the warm and awesome people I’ve met who genuinely just want a cool world to kill monsters in, fly around, cook, do quests ETC but it’s hard to come back from a reputation like this it’s hard have hope from developers with money and the power to do whatever they want with the game they made, but even so I still play Zenith and I still find it hard to stop getting on and trying to make the most of what I have and yet I still stand at the highest point on the map looking down at the amazing areas and content and wish things were different. What happened? Where did the money and passion go? (Thanks for reading this I doubt anyone read this far but nonetheless my only hope is that they somehow come back from this)

[@GildaCieloDiMezzanotte]

I'm not ashamed to say that I cried hearing these words, Thank you ! .. by Azzurro. #saveZenith

[@arcusoaurelius]

Me too. Me fucking too

[@Thedigitalspike]

This is like a little world dying I played it for a bit and it has one of the strongest communities ever but every thing good comes to an end #SaveZenith

[@jojo666lol]

Yo toast, this is a very respectable thing you've done to speak out on ramen vr studios. This game literally had all of the opportunities in the world to be the very best game and they didn't do jack shit.

[@no_1_knoz]

GODDAMN Toast! This is the first time I’ve watched anything of Ur’s and after the deep felt emotions and pure energy that U’ve put out on a game U clearly LOVE has earned a sub. I’ve wanted a VRMMORPG for ‘so long’ and when I finally was able to get it, a week later the DEVs made it free to play. 😩 Talking about feeling gutted and to have never even played it and since I haven’t cause I feel as if I was robbed (no where near the level of Ur POV, but I wud have put 1000s of hours into this game as well and sadly I never will. I get MMOs are hard to create and even more so to maintain and keep up, then put the VR aspect of it puts another level on it, that makes ‘laziness’ (from DEVs) a frame of mind that shud never be even considered. I’m sry U had to deal with all that U have and I wish I cud have experienced at least 25% of what U got outta this title.

[@sandeshdhyan7269]

Zenith was destroyed by the slime ball leader of a gang of professional trolls who goes by the name of carter. If any speaks out against carter he stalks the individual then provokes an incident his cronies film the incident then carter edits it and presents it to the game developers as absolute truth portraying himself as the aggrieved party. This results in the truly aggrieved party getting a lifetime ban for nothing more than standing up to the gang of trolls destroying this game. I want my money back.

[@arcusoaurelius]

Thank you for saying this. Carter who? I want to know more about this person.

[@sandeshdhyan7269]

@arcusoaurelius initially there were a few really nice people running good guilds like the, Integrity Knights, but Carter and some Woman named Shirrah turned up and started pirating members to their guild which they called Helping Hand ,enough people were stupid enough to believe it then it very quickly became an instrument for Carter to exploit this group for his own personal pleasure and it degenerated still further to becoming a gang of professional cyber bullies that dominate the west American servers.

[@dragoncoo9961]

As someone who worked their but off putting together their lore from the touchstones. The direction of the game so so bad. I started on lore a little before release and lead to me writing summaries and timelines. I created a server just for the lore and the translation of the games quests. I also wanted to do a lot for the life skills but it ended up for nothing with 1.3 breaking cooking and then they never finish or fix it to begin with.

[@lemonadeattic1639]

This is Gassai from GodKin: I miss just putting on some Spotify and grinding out skystars for hours bro, it’s so sad how bad they fumbled it. I made so many friends through this game and it is just heartbreaking to see this.. this colossal wreck, and without this game I’ll lose them. It didn’t matter that the game was unstable cause with time we all thought it would be fixed. I truly hope this game gets revived idc if the entire staff has to get revamped just somebody #saveZenith

[@badwolf3065]

Alpha and Beta were great. Initial release was good. But it really fell apart not long after that. Loved running into you and playing together pre release btw.

[@jtunesz]

No lie! I feel you bro! Great video as always!!!🥲🥲

[@VRRat]

#SaveZenith

[@dragon-mp5vg]

I fully agree with you...😞 #saveZenith

[@Cheesekinggaming]

Someone please save this game that was so good once upon a time

[@andiladd]

I miss zenith tbh, the second they changed the gliding so you couldn't speed fly it went downhill from there, and changing from godstones I lost my ultra healing where I could heal 10k in 2seconds with my healing orb.

[@Patichu]

Me too buddy me too hopefully one day we'll be able to fly through the Galian plains again the way we use use be able too. Miss you andi❤

[@andiladd]

@@Patichu Omg legit wee patichu those were some times I mind I used to even just log in stand on top of the thing at thr start fly down throw a healing orb on new players and fly back up no problem for hours 😂😂

[@ChizyVR]

Rip Zenith man. Miss the old days

[@andiladd]

@@ChizyVR legit 😅😅 sooo much potential in it still at least give an increase leveling system like reach level 1000 and you unlock a new area lol

[@dennislvgreen6992]

​@@PatichuThat day is now. Ever since the player housing update, it is again possible to fast fly. Just got to boost your movement speed from house items first ;)

[@Tinalinaaaa]

Well said! #savezenith ……hope you don’t catch a ban for speaking up like so many others have.

[@Kayabauwu]

As a person who has 2000 hours and gave 200$ to the kickstarter thing I will say now, thank you for putting the thoughts of people like me out there. I loved this game more than anything for most of 2022 and 2023 but after the skyland update it all crumbled down. So thank you for putting it out there

[@proit8453]

It's just downright sad. Playing this game, I can feel the immense potential it holds. A well-crafted MMO in VR could keep crowds engaged for ages, fostering friendships, guilds, and countless memorable experiences-taking what 2D versions achieved to a whole new immersive level. It's hard to come to terms with the fact that such potential has been squandered by the very creators who seem unable to admit fault and get to work. It feels like a missed opportunity for something truly remarkable.

[@Tomtommer]

As someone who, in the past, was extremely involved in Zenith's community, subsequently got banned for being critical of the game, and now watches this inevitable downfall from the sidelines, I mostly agree with what you said. The main thing I disagree with is the idea that adding more of the current endgame would fix the problems Zenith has/ would save it. Zenith is rotten to its core, in the sense that basically every aspect/ feature/ mechanic has some major and/ or minor flaws. Fixing that would essentially require a complete overhaul of the game as it is, akin to FFXIV reborn. You mentioned combat is excellent, and while I agree it IS, relatively speaking compared to other VR MMORPGs, it still has significant room for improvement and I genuinely believe that the underwhelming combat is one of the reasons new players don't stick around after the initial 1-2 hours. They could solve it, in part, by improving the AI for enemies, and also by making skills the leading source of damage instead of regular swings for BM, and regular blaster-shots for EM. That's just one example of the MANY things they could/ should/ need to do in order to fix Zenith: TLC. What we absolutely agree on is the fact that Nexus is not the thing that's going to bring them back from the brink. I think one of the main reasons they're unwilling to revery course at this point is just a case of Sunk Cost-fallacy, they put over 6 months of dev time into Nexus and now believe it's the only thing they can do to save Zenith, even though literally everyone watching them is, at this point, screaming at them to stop. I also wholeheartedly agree with your views on the yes-men, and their actions of banning everyone who is even hinting at criticism being one of the biggest mistakes they've made. They needed people in their circle to break the circle-jerk and tell them straight, but they cared more about being praised than about making a good game. All of this just leads me to a simple conclusion: Ramen VR deserves every last bit of this situation, they've made their bed and now they have to sleep in it. They've done everything in their power to alienate their playerbase, all in the pursuit of praise for their inflated egos. I wish the Zenith TLC codebase gets bought by capable MMORPG developers, and for Ramen to accept their inevitable defeat. Asmongold made a comment about Overwatch 2 earlier, saying: "Overwatch 2 is a dead game, it died. Like, they actually did something that very few games can do. They killed people's hope that Overwatch will ever be anything more than a joke." This really resonated with me in the context of Zenith, as it is extremely applicable to the current state of Zenith and how Ramen VR handles it all.

[@chizy4431]

Well said Tom

[@Tomtommer]

@@chizy4431Have you gotten banned yet? I saw on reddit there's a lot of disappearing posts, I wonder if you and Toast will be considered evil by Ramen now too for sharing these views.

[@chizy4431]

@@Tomtommer To be honest I am surprised that I am not banned yet but I am very safe with what I am saying on their discord, I saw alot of my friends getting banned for being slightly negative about the situation. It's ridiculous. But I think Toast won't get banned, if he would get banned, I am afraid there is gonna be a riot because that would be insane. But you never know with RamenVR these days.

[@Tomtommer]

@@chizy4431If he doesn't get banned, that shows inconsistency in how they apply the rules, which would also incite riots. Favoritism will definitely backfire on them too, which is why this requires everyone to prepare buckets of popcorn for the show that's coming.

[@arcusoaurelius]

What other VRMMO? lol I WISH somethign existed

[@DrDrasticVR]

I gotchu Toast, i’ll listen to the community in my future VR games 🫡

[@ackerossfx9419]

Thanks toast. I was one of those people that were sad because I missed the beta and that's how I found your channel and your videos made me even more excited to play. I got it on release and was happy but now I don't even bother.

[@VSTwisted]

Man I gave this one my all. I was proud to be next to Toast when that blue armor dropped. I think I was the only player on PSVR1 at some point. I crashed on Mage every 30 minutes. Couldn't even make it through a dungeon. Toast knows. Turns out they had one dude for all of PSVR to bug fix. One guy. I talked to him on Discord. He pretty much told me that the fixes weren't going to happen. Just demoralizing. Suck it Andy. Should have listened to your playerbase.

[@seradinlp2097]

It really is a shame how it all went down at this point 90% of the core player base left the game including me and a lot of my guild we only use the game as a meeting ground theese days. RIP Zenith I loved this game dearly but I just cant stay behind it anymore. How many times have we as the core player base asked the devs to give us options to support the game via selling cosmetics or pets. I will allways cherrish the memmories I made in this game as someone who loves anime and mmorpgs since forever I have made some of my best memoryes in this game thanks for the awesome time but for now it is time to move on and wait for the next vr mmo in 10-20 years... Love you Toast, will always remember when we met in the city and started playing together it was fun while it lasted =)

[@vNeatvGaming]

"Who let him cooked?" Thanks Toast! #SaveZenith

[@sh1ftlunar]

Zenith had the potential to go down as one of the biggest vr games. They sure fumbled the ball on that though.

[@anthonypena3322]

I’m mad man. I was finally part of a VR community but then Zenith had to pull this bs

[@SilCoupe]

Been playing since the release, your videos are a big reason why I got the game. I’ve sunk probably near a thousand hours into it as well, same with my wife. We joined an awesome guild, and made so many amazing friends because of this game. I’ll always be thankful of what Zenith was, because it was truly one of the best experiences I’ve ever had in any game I’ve ever played. We’re both so heartbroken at the direction the game is going, and definitely agree with many of the points you made in the video here. I’m really hoping they can figure things out. #SaveZenith

[@belleivora_heart3881]

I started the game and i loved it, the game was my life I'd come home and couldnt wait to get on my PSVR or even my Oculus. Because of Zenith I met so many good people but when skyland came out i just straight up stopped playing because what i played for wasnt happening anymore. The laughs, the crying when you didnt complete raids after being so close, the excitment of meeting someone new. It was all gone so I stopped playing. It makes me sad because if it wasn't for zenith I wouldn't have found my voice, I'd have fallen through the cracks. I wouldn't have founded my guild where I made so many friends. Thank you for putting all our frustrations, all our passion and putting it into words. #savezenith

[@connor1269]

Zenith was the whole reason I got a vr in the first place when I saw your videos on the game and when I started playing it I loved it and I loved everything about it the community was fun and friendly the game was fun and the updates were good for the game. But when later updates rolled out and the game became a grind fest I started playing less and less but when the game started to just be raids in the endgame I quit. This game still does have potential but they need to wake up. #saveZenith

[@JoinUsInVR]

OUCH😖Death by OVER-promise and UNDER-deliver never looks good... Our group has been game testing a brand new VRMMORPG by a strong dev, and they are making sure they do the OPPOSITE. It's got to be GREAT FUN from day one. Why do so many dev's not get that?

[@JoinUsInVR]

SPOT ON at 5:12 ...so many dev's can't take the criticism, and instead they hate hearing what they need to do to make a fun game. Why? Pride.

[@Tomtommer]

@@JoinUsInVRThey needed to be humble in their development, buy they were far too occupied with generating hype, they started believing in their own false overstated hype, leading to this situation.

[@Tomtommer]

There's a new VRMMORPG in development? It will be interesting to see if that pushes Zenith to get their ducks in a row, or if they just give up their monopoly position in the market for free to a new (hopefully capable) developer. Who's making it? I'm sure lots of people here are wanting to play a new, good, MMO.

[@JoinUsInVR]

@@Tomtommerif nothing else, they have shown the next dev what NOT to do 😉From what I've seen, it sounds like this dev needs a wake up call. Maybe this will be it. Or maybe their ego is just gonna get in their own way

[@Tomtommer]

@@JoinUsInVR This definitely is a great learning experience for any aspiring, current and future developer. It's disappointing the actual developer experiencing this problem isn't learning from it all, but the saying "those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it" is true regardless. Who's the new developer? a known name or indie too? any info would be cool

[@MuuToo]

I have this one video on my hard drive from like 2021 during like the apha where like 30 random peeps just bumrushed this random boss we had found that was way out of any of our levels. Was probably the first and best huge memory I have from Zenith. Shame it never reached that height we wanted.

[@reaperprime7747]

agree 100% in everything you said, we all feel the same brother 😢

[@Blujustice]

This new zenith update made me never ever want to come back to this game. As a day one player for hours on end. The devs are trash to me at this point.

[@rivetvr]

this all needed to be said so direly, thank you toast!

[@AwakenToast]

I know how much you and many others truly LOVE/LOVED this game, just sucks to see what route they continue to take. Just take a look at the support on this video that alone should prove to Ramen the amount of people that would be willing to come back if the game was set in the right direction. They lost their identity and really need to come back to earth for a second and really soak in the fact of what they have here... Just want to see this game succeed

[@Tomtommer]

It looks like the official Zenith YT channel has turned off its comments. I guess that shows they see problems, acknowledge them, but don't actually care about them. Perception is more important to them than actually working towards a better game. It seems it's time to wake up to the reality that the MMO is no longer a game they see a future in.

[@Floocs]

I didn’t even know that nexus happened. I’m sad to see this game die because of the developers. I love zenith. I found it because of you and I hope that they can lock in and do better. #savezenith

[@BallyBoy95]

Solid commentary. Subbed.

[@Ninjalexander]

8:34 That SAO theme kicking off really got me there. Many of us still have that dream of a Swordland :)

[@mimicray]

Nostos, Zenith... yeah, that all...

[@derrickhuggins6453]

#SaveZenith. You've known me since the begining every since the Robert incident and I have asked for two years what people love about the game or what would they like to see added in-game. I tried to follow your examples of kindness and the willingness to help others in need. I keep posting suggestions based off things I've heard or things that could help with low drop rates or endgame raids being tied to lore of the game starting from the academy and continues after Galian Valley to give us the lore about each raid boss and why it's imperative to kill them while keeping NPC interactions constant. Just like the events that lead up to Outlaw Grove. I also though that the best Epic God Stone drop rate issues could be countered by adding them to the skill tree.

[@BenJohn-zq4ds]

How do i play the dlc not the nexus but the story mode because i dont see it in the quest store

[@ProgHeadOnyxGames]

I was there from the betas, Yours and Zstorm's coverage on Zenith really pushed me into finally getting a VR headset so i could play this wonderful game. As an MMO vet I've participated in as many surveys as i could, wrote documents about the direction of the game and how its becoming more and more stagnant and what could help it and its always fallen on deaf ears. When nexus was announced i voiced my opinions in the discord and was essentially told to shut up and deal with it. I was mad that they virtually abandoned their game to make another VR rougelike (like there aren't a billion of them already) and alienated their entire player base. I've left the discord, uninstalled the game on all my devices and haven't looked back. As much as I would love to have a solid VRMMO, RamenVR is not the studio that's gonna bring it. I've lost all faith and hope in their ability and competence to deliver any form of a solid product. Unfortunately the same thing has happened to Team21's Ilyisa VR mmo as well. We will have to wait for someone with a strong enough vision to bring something new to the scene.

[@SuzumaIkimura]

Man, I loved this game, but I will say one thing, just trust me and wait a little longer and you will see the biggest VR MMORPG project that doesn't want money, that just wants to create the real world VR MMORPG that we deserve.... All you have to do is wait...

[@bonedawgstudio5649]

Sad story. I was a Captin in KOTBO and left about a year ago b/c I saw this coming. Hundreds of hours, but then it was left to us to make our own fun and the dream faded. You're so right about everything dude. I would have paid a suscription and bought at a cash shop but a one time 30 bucks was bound to fail as well...

[@arcaneflame6556]

Zenith broke my heart. So bitter over it.

[@ShickSlit]

Fumbled hard, bro.. your series was the reason i got a headset. Zenith, first game, no question! You're not wrong at all & thanks for bein straight up about it

[@ReiN550]

Finally someone said it out loud, the developers made a money grab and are spitting on the players, the untapped potential of the genre and the hype of the vrmmorpg genre.

[@Genericguy807]

hey Toast. A Township Tale is a lot like it. It's a very good game. You should look into it man. I wish you luck. see you.

[@pinkcrafter9623]

I'm with you. After thousands of hours in game, I stopped playing when I realized the studio didn't care for whatever we had to say. It's sad to see one of the greatest games in VR getting ruined by pride.

[@BlazinPhoenix82]

You're so spot on with this man. I feel the passion, and I had it too for a time. I was so intrigued by this game, and my discord message still reflects that even though I don't even play anymore 😢

[@shadowmoonwitch]

When this game came out I was super excited for it and I bought it. I played for about 2 months and got bored with it. there was no real story line, the leveling and armor/weapons were basic. So left it and I did keep up with it by updates ,hoping for you know improvements, but nothing really happened that said wow you need to come back. Even the long awaited release of the ninja class could not pull me back and once a mmo goes f2p you know it is hitting the bottom of the barrel . I honestly think the devs did a quick cash grab and decided to just do the lest amount of work afterward. So sad for this game I really wanted better for it.

[@Nephibis]

For me I was burned out from starting over the alphas and betas, setting up VR is inconvenient compared to flat-screen (I love it, but sometimes I just want to jump on a game real quick) and I also had been turned off by some experiences with some of the community. The game is fun, but personally I think their model for making money was the biggest issue. They may have had a lot, but that was a lot in reference to a regular person nit in reference to video game maintenance money. VR isn't big enough, so surviving is hard

[@Konst1313]

Id buy zenith on the first day and now i just hope that it comes back #SAVE ZENITH

[@oliver-nation4377]

The game had so much potentiel, but the fucked it up, as most studios these days does. Reminds me a lot of what Ubisoft does with their titles...

[@codyholbrooks4875]

You tell em toast, honestly this isnt just the problem with zenith its a problem with a lot of games. Thats why ive moved to tabor. I may not be great, but the game is. It has its bugs and problems but the dev team put out 2 hot fixes in the last 8 hours and are clear and concise about whats going on behind the scenes. Game companies really need to take notes from combat waffle. If they keep it up they will be a big player not just in the vr world but in the gaming world period.

[@BamirengVR]

Its truly sad... we as a community deserved better

[@SurprisedBowtieCat-nv6qf]

#SaveZenith 😭 i didn't start playing till about a month after release so i didnt play when ut gad its highest player count but there were still plenty of amazing people to play with. i made some of the best friends ive ever had in that game. It was my first video game vr or flatscreen and I immediately fell in love. It breaks my heart just as it does many other people know. I tried to play IR in hopes of supporting tlc but i couldn't even play it i was too disappointed. Ill still follow updates in hopes one day someone new comes in and can fix what the devs did and bring it back to life but i think that's just hopeful thinking and denial. We're grieving the loss if zenith.

[@Patichu]

Thank you toast. I didn't want to say it myself because if i did say it im basically saying that we were lied too, Zenith could have been amazing and us players loved this game. I completely agree with everything you said and I hope ramen vr see this video and #savezenith

[@BUTTRUU]

What killed me is when I realized that all their effort was put towards bringing in new players instead of taking care of their other players. and I was the last one in my friend group that still believed in the game and it was awful to be let down like that. as you said they've been actively told what would save their game and they just don't listen. this is obviously anime inspired and that in itself gives you a decently sized roadmap as to what people would wanna see. New moves, new weapons such as great sword more classes. more elaborate dungeons. more effective gear. less bugs. it really wasn't as hard as they pretended it was but as I said they legit wanted to bring in new players and make more promises they couldn't keep. this game was on the brink of being one of the greatest of all time. it breaks my heart to see the maps empty. Its very depressing but I'm sure another vrmmo will take their place

[@cgngaming9663]

Hope I still have a chance to play it you made me fall in love with this game

[@Eloderung]

I put over 1.5k hours into Zenith. But there is a 0% chance you will be able to enjoy the game today. The Nexus patch has broken the MMO into a non-playable state. There's only one functioning raid boss left in the game out of all the dungeons/raids. Enemies are super laggy and don't respond for several seconds when attacking them. Even on PC, all quests/NPCs break every 10-15 minutes requiring a game restart. Most of the skill tree perks and equipment perks do not work properly. That's even ignoring that most of the playerbase has left or has been banned--it's simply not possible to enjoy the game like us old players could.

[@DJSayori]

As a ex-moderator of the Zenith Discord, who has put so many hours of time into the community and been there for all the Alphas and Betas, trying to promote and help with feedback, i still feel dissapointed. In all the Alphas and Betas, plus some creator showoffs, i feel the game was pretty fun, it was clearly missing a lot of things, but i would just think it would be there in the final game release. But i left as a mod, different problems, but it ripped my rose tinted off. I still wanted to play the game, but for a while i didn't have the will to get on it. When i finally did try it, i played for 4 hours, and i have not touched the game since. I might have some biase, but everything felt empty, ofc it didn't help that i never met any players (maybe i am unlucky) but the world felt the same as the betas, it was empty, and didn't feel finished. I love the concept of Zenith, i still sometimes wanna try it again when i see updates, I wanna make it to end game and all, but there is just things keeping me away from getting on. Every time i meet someone who has tried Zenith, i hear nothing but bad things, which makes me sad, because this was a game i was highly invested in for quite a few years. My experiance with this game might have been very different than others, but i agree with you on a lot of the parts, if not for what i have experianced, then from what i hear from others... I really hope they can #SaveZenith

[@GamingBaryonix]

I just came back to this channel after an entire year cause i remembered watching this guys videos and having fun. And today, ofcourse had to be the day i checked back. Its sad to see this happen to the game after watching it so much.

[@Ellyanna2008]

As much as I’d like to see Zenith saved, I honestly doubt it will ever happen. They have made it clear they don’t care about the majority of their player base so I can’t see a mass return happening even if they do fix it.

[@arcusoaurelius]

"They" need to sell it to a group that will actually improve it.

[@WrFisk]

i still play the game from time to time, and i agree not much has really changed over time, nothing new has come around in a good while

[@BamirengVR]

I had so high hopes for this game.... First two weeks of this game was one of the best times I had in VR. I stopped when they took out scooter boopin.... Why would someone make their game intentionally less fun? #saveZenith

[@iamterra6705]

2 huge facts: •There was NOTHING to purchase to help support the game. No skins, no real life merch, nothing. •Time-gating the end game rewards removed the majority of experienced players from the world map.

[@foolishdeemon2486]

Dude I haven't played Zenith since it came out and just when I think about coming back I see this. Absolutely heartbreaking man this game had so much potential.

[@tophat5128]

I hate that they became what they are today, I was so stoked and excited to play the game on launch and i played for about untill i reached max level and there was just nothing else to do when you got to that point and i just stopped. I hate that I will never be able to go back to the game but i love the memories i had with the homies. Hope they can save it and give it some real content like an actual mmo

[@toxicnoodle3142]

Thank you for articulating the community's feelings so well man.

[@jettozahoku]

As a Kickstarter backer, I've been disappointed in the company. There were lots of promises that were never met ( yes, I understand there's risk involved throwing money at projects ). I often told myself to be patient, that this game only had a small studio working on it, and that given time, it could get big! I wanted Zenith to be huge. I didn't play very much due to health reasons, but I believed in their passion from the start! They were my first, and only, kickstart I ever supported. Knowing that they received quite a bit of money outside the kickstart leads me to speculate they squandered it. On what exactly? We'll never know. Can they fix this? It's hard to say. It pains me to know that you spent so much time and effort trying to help get this game out there for them, giving advice - just generally giving your all for a game that you and your friends are passionate about. I hope they can salvage this. I've wanted so badly to jump in and play when I'm well enough to, but it's hard knowing this game is on its last leg. Please fix this, Ramen. We don't want this game to die. We want it to be the huge, SAO inspired game it was meant to be. Get your stuff together, dig for that passion you claimed to have for this project at the beginning and give us the game you promised. I fear the end is close though. I hope I'm proven wrong.

[@Gato.Lol.]

#savezenith

[@LOGAN-bf6xu]

if i was rich, id buy this game and fund it to perfection.

[@arcusoaurelius]

Like - Lets do this. Seriously.

[@henn000]

Only way to save it is if they sell it to new company.

[@Nisa-Magica]

i remember the hype i had for this game, i buy it day 1 on launch and i played it for a month or so As a normal MMO player, I strongly disagreed, it's as if the devs had seen sao and believed that doing something like that would be enough, but this game as MMO offered very little, also things could have been done better, design decisions that make the experience better. feel somewhat "goffy" and lack of feedback on different things such as sounds, alerts, knocks , all those things make you able to focus more on what you do but the lack of them does the opposite, it's like you can't take it seriously as asian mmo maybe if they were inspired a little more in a game like pso2: new genesis part for open world or the normal pso2 also it may work, but they tryed to do an mmo with little idea of what an mmo is from basics this came out in the time were vr devs thinked that all has to do 100% an "immersive experience" and do all the mechanics goofy to make them "immersive" like extend your arms to fly, i hated that, ruin the exploration part, its like they hoped to relied totally in the social aspect, so the game as gameplay ended looking like a vr chat map nice social aspect and all but the game itself sucks, i forced myself to play from the day 10 i was trying to love the game and inhaling copium, saying to myself "oh this will get better, is just that vr is no there yet" till i played skyrim vr with mods. this game is just bad i'm srry for my bad english

[@Nisa-Magica]

i was trying to play a vr mmo from netease, "nostos vr" but seems like that game is closed, as what u can see about it the game looks really good, and have animals, building etc, the pullish looks weirdly decent for vr and no goffy at all, i wonder why that game fail at least looks 100 times better that zenith, i think zenith somehow get popular bc was played for ppl that were not used to normal games (ty to meta) i remember i had notice that, while seems like nostos game recibe so bad critics bc the players were used to games and were expecting so much, and that was in 2019 rly tragic situation, if nostos were for quest it would have been very popular if people can settle for something like zenith dam i burn out so bad on this game that i think its one of the few games that i can say i hate

[@arcusoaurelius]

It's funny that you call this bad. What exists in VR that is better? It is literally the best VR MMO that has existed to date. The whole point of his video is to show how special it was and how they should have made it better. Dungeons of Eternity is good but it isn't open world.

[@Nisa-Magica]

​@@arcusoaurelius wonder if u did read some of what i write being the most popular(not the better) one available (for standalone) dosnt remove the fact that as a mmorpg is garbage as i said there were better games, "like vosotros" that fail bc it came too early when there were no casuals and players are too lazy and i played that one really similar to wow "illysia" i end droping it bc it was dead but if that game had more players it is way better that the goofy ahh zenith if u are used to play mmorpg i still dosnt know what is zeenith, is like they really want to copy sao but that works only in anime is not something factible as a game u have to play is not realistic game desing, is just weird, zenith developers 100% were not gamers everything is goofy ah unrealistic mechanic they manage to fit into that gameplay resulting in idk what goofy experience is the only way i can describe how can u take serious zenith as a game? u only can relay in the social aspect bc the game sucks an mmo is something that u have to give hours and hours grind do quest, improve, etc zenithis not an mmo, is a vrchat map has mechanics at the level of a vrchat map also

[@Arken_mancer]

I hope things get better for this game. I have so many great beta memories. I planned on retiring in this game.

[@killjoygamez6457]

Yeah man, this was painful and unexpected. I'm working on my own VR multiplayer game at the moment, and as a solo Dev I take every bit of input from My community serious. Fixing bugs is one thing in a game, but maintaining the player's fun Is a priority!

[@Tomtommer]

Props for listening to your community. With that being said though, it's important for you to know what your game is, and also what it is not. Don't let players push your game into a Frankenstein's monster of a game just because they suggest a lot of different things. Stick to your vision, embrace the feedback that fits inside that vision and disregard the feedback that doesn't. No is an acceptable answer to any request, as long as you can back that no up with a solid reason/ explanation for yourself. The same obviously goes for yes. The problem with Zenith and its devs is that they don't know what Zenith is, and what it isn't, thus ending up in this chaos. As a developer you should be the one that's most knowledgeable about your game, especially during development before full release. If you don't know what your game is supposed to be, players definitely won't. Good luck on your game!

[@williamjester3196]

My boy is right . If the devs just played the content they created and talked to people in the game to take a poll. 😢 Thank you for your passion, Mr. Toast.

[@Eloderung]

It's sad because you could hang out in Skyland for two hours and figure out what was causing the player retention issues right there and then. Extreme server lag, mob unresponsiveness, bugs, practically zero explanation on how to do anything, broken abilities and quests. If they fixed those, they probably would have had thousands of regular daily players even with all the other issues. Not a single dev cared to do that. Not a single dev cared to play their game on live beyond god mode one-shotting things.

[@RedDevilVR]

A solid video my dude!

[@sky.77]

Wow ❤ really true.. you speak from the hearts of many of us and no it's not negative, it's sad and unfortunately true.. a wonderful video and I hope the developers see and hear it..

[@psrob]

I feel you brother... You don't know how... 300 hours played, many gameplay video done (still in my channel), tons of support to new players, bug reports, etc. NEVER bothered anyone... Made 1 time a mistake (for godstone experimental purpouse) and boom lifetime ban (and subsequent treatment as a criminal of the worst kind) gg RamenVR 👍