THE TRUTH OF THE PRIMARCH SCATTERING REVEALED?!

[@peanusbenis5631]

"I cast them to the tides to spare them from his ambition." So instead she left them to the whims of 4 unequivocally evil gods born of the worst aspects of humanity, of which one is a literal god of ambition and manipulation, whilst she was aware said Gods were directly competing against the Emperor. Sounds like a good idea.

[@iclickog7096]

Perhaps they emperors goals are more insidious then we are aware of.

[@iclickog7096]

Also you gotta remember that the chaos gods weren’t really known to exist. Even to the primarchs. Only to the emperor.

[@HigherMammal]

Ah yes the scattering of the infant primarchs. Or as I call it the "Great Fetus Yeetus"

[@darkscholar625]

That, sir, is GOLD

[@danvojnovic6804]

Wow

[@eonstar2441]

Decent

[@ebonhawk3119]

Feetus Deletus

[@Nathual]

LMAO

[@CaiLeonas]

Inserting new characters without any build up into some of the most critical and important points of the story arc isn't good writing, let alone good stewardship of the lore in general. Someone as potentially important as a true mother for the primarchs cannot be and should never be a throw away character, but someone with as deep and rich history as Malcador at LEAST. This being said, it is already far too late to have properly introduced this character without making it an obvious bootstrap/add on/stranger in the room.

[@alastair4839]

maybe... this is her introduction and they have big plans for her character - she is perpetual, and could be "inserted" into 40k. But you would think we would have heard of her before now - like what has she been up to for the last 10k years. It would take some fancy writing to recover this, but its possible. However I do think this it is a poor choice of introduction.... we'll see

[@joevines3428]

There are massive parts of the story missing anyway, like what was the Emporer doing before the AI rebellion? who is malcador? Noone alive in the 41st milenim really understands the history of the impirium. There are millions of characters we will never read about.

[@TheKlink]

@@joevines3428 The Emperor was probably Half Life Gman at that point.

[@themos9751]

“Spare them from his ambition” *proceeds to thrust her 20 children through super hell to be tainted by literal daemons just to have them put up for adoption on random, dangerous, borderline hellish planets where some of them are nearly slaughtered.*

[@spacemarine8197]

Lmao

[@philm1640]

And still not spared from his ambition lol

[@Lukeclout]

Well some ended up pretty nice Roboute and Dorn ended up being adopted by aristocratic and noble families, they turned out alright.

[@ukaszbiaek6641]

@@Lukeclout and some were butchered by surgeons, raised by demons or scream for the warp visions :p

[@shh4894]

I really liked Saturnine, in fact, I think it might be the best HH book i've read. And I like the reveals. However, a lot of the flaws that do appear, like what you are rightfully mocking right now, appear due to I think the author for whatever reason not having someone to really push back on Erda. A character could have pointed out what you just said and she could have said it was a mistake, or explained further etc. I think there are many reasons why she was, almost, handled with kids gloves. 1) In world, she is symbolically almost the Emperors equal, she is not close to as powerful as him, but she is presented as in the same league morally and symbolically. Having John Grammaticus chew her out, especially when he is trying to get him to help her would not make sense. 2) I think the subtext is that she is the female balance to the emperors male force...and we know how touchy that subject is. People are very careful not to put the symbolically (and literally) female as ""bad"". And I think the author thought "she is not as powerful as the emperor" was enough of a "bad" and thus wanted to heap "good" on her, and it didn't always work. 3) Space, maybe, just like me, the author judged he wrote too much already and needed to limit himself.

[@Kidbizzaro6]

You kinda hit the nail on the head there, Rho. Erda's character seems really forced and her reasoning is very poorly thought out. If they decide to do something like they did with Horus, where the Dark Gods give her a dream of the grimdark future where her sons are monstrous and blame it on the Emperor, then I could understand where she would be coming from at least. Still, the fact that she seems to stand by her decision is frustrating. I would at least like the catharsis of having her character come to realize just how deeply she screwed over the rest of humanity with her decision. I'm not a big fan of perpetuals either, but hopefully Black Library can find something interesting to do with her character.

[@sonofjack6286]

I thought her name was Amar.

[@johnnyscifi]

Butchers nails?

[@oceansky8807]

Sjw creeping in

[@JayFromBlighty]

Lol mummy was mad and scattered her sons across the galaxy to piss off the big E. Really bloody lame, should of kept it a mystery.

[@ShadrackMeduson]

acording to her she scattered them to save them....yea save them my ass, im shure angron will love to have a chat with her

[@Ny-kelCameron]

Yup, sounds like the woke infestation that people have been fearing coming into the WH40k universe.

[@joevines3428]

Yeah the mystery is better, but you could look at her as a very powerfull spyker and an unwitting champion of chaos undivided. Maybe she was shown a future where the Emporer had become a tyrant or the Primarchs may have been complete bastards raised on Terra. Either way chaos has to play a part.

[@brya9681]

nah, it was smart considering how shitty Big E was its a fluke that he happened to end up caring for most of them. And I use care sparingly since he fucking killed 2 of them and wiped them from history. Such cool dad, much care.

[@emirhaneksioglu4503]

I'll just scatter my kids through actual hell, their father is too overambitious.

[@01oo011]

I’d rather not have heard what I just heard... if it’s all the same I’m gonna stick with chaos causing the scattering.

[@shh4894]

Honestly I think chaos helping or manipulating Erda is better than 'they just did it'. The whole point of chaos is they can't just do shit in the materium. Otherwise that raises the question, if they can just - at their lowest(?), just do something like that, why can't they just, i dunno, 'scatter' grown up Dorn into the nearest Sun or whatever.

[@thomaschinyere-ezeh6676]

It does have more holes than a Swiss cheese at a firing squad. But to me the chaos theory is equally weak, how did the chaos lord's manage to eject 20 test tubes babies in the heart of terras palace. Where they needed Magnus idiocy to even get to the front door? If they did why can they not do it again? This makes far more sense, it just needs to be fleshed out properly.

[@01oo011]

@@thomaschinyere-ezeh6676 "chaos theory" hehe

[@thomaschinyere-ezeh6676]

@stank hooliganz despite it making no sense, and despite it not being chaotic at all? 90% of primarchs landed where there most likely to thrive and benefit. If chaos wanted to stop the primarchs they have pretty shitty choices of location.

[@Damo2690]

Too me it was Chaos that did it. Just they were pulling Erda's strings

[@AROBASPARK]

Think of this for a moment: what has been years of "it was Lorgar's fault!" can now be altered turn into "it was Karen's fault!": the loss of 2 of the Primarchs, the death and corruption of the others, the Emperor's fall, the death of Malcador, the Genocide occurring through the Imperium at a daily basis for 10k years, all of it, done by a Karen. Let that sink in of how bad writting that is.

[@warex4501]

It was Lorgar's and Karen's fault

[@insiainutorrt259]

Baldy wrinten yes... but history is full of dumb cunts destroying everone and everything around them for no reason whatsoever... Witch burning were a good and neccecary... unfortunately

[@AROBASPARK]

@@warex4501 It may had been Lorgar's Fault, but a Karen did it first!! XD

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

@@insiainutorrt259 You sir are a terrible human being.

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

She sent them away to prevent the Emperor from brainwashing them to obey him unconditionally. Your comment is way to simplifying and offensive to females.

[@Aserbic]

I smell the foul taint of star wars story changing rot here. Really hope I'm wrong. Primarchs having a mother sounds like a great concept, but changing it to be her not chaos in the scattering breaks a lot of the lore. Like the chaos great plan is gone and it's just a yeeting of children to the warp just to keep them from their purpose.

[@Damo2690]

Could it not be Chaos pulling her strings without her knowing. Chaos is the temptation after all. If that's the case then even though she "did it", it was still Chaos that caused it

[@Pemmont107]

It's worth remembering that the Ruinous Powers are pathalogical liars, great opportunists and masterful manipulators. It stands to reason that they never had a "great plan" other than furthering the eternal game between the four gods. They simply saw the Emperor was a threat, and took the opportunity to stop him when it presented itself.

[@Jagonath]

I think it will be, Erda opened the portal *believing* it would save them, and not understanding what Chaos will do with them. So it might end up the opposite of Star Wars, in that respect. Maybe. Dan Abnett is setting up something, but he loves to break lore so much it's hard to tell what!

[@joevines3428]

Scattering the Primarchs is definitely a chaotic act. The Chaos gods dont want to wipe out humanity, they need human's to be in a state of constant war. They work through mortals to achieve their goals.

[@ShadrackMeduson]

the real guilty of the horus heresy was just a karen with mother aspiration issues, it was the most stupid way to go ''golden man bad'' on the emperor.

[@marcusjr80]

What? The emperor had never been a "good guy" . But he was the best option for humanity in an uncaring galaxy. Are you just salty that a woman was involved in the primarch project or something, cause it seems like you are.

[@ShadrackMeduson]

@@marcusjr80 her been a woman has nothing to do with her character been poorly executed.

[@paulbrule5897]

@@marcusjr80 nah it's just that her reason for scattering her son's sound like bs

[@Ani_Thari]

@@marcusjr80 It was pointed out in this video. This isn't about her being a woman, but about her weak reasoning in combination with her sudden appearance that made it irritating. As a woman who loves the lore in worlds and games maybe I'm tired of most women having two modes - peaceful and insane warrior who dgaf (Warcraft gives all the examples). So I wouldn't have minded if Erda had helped make the Primarchs because we all know how DNA works. What I do mind, having grown up with a horrible mother, is the "I did it for a good reason," excuse. She didn't hand deliver her sons to new homes. She didn't locate an intergalactic firehouse and leave them all at the door step. She scattered them. Tossed them into the winds with all her fucks. How would you feel if mom appear and said, "Oh, yes, instead of having you grow up on Terra, I figured it would be better if you grew up on NOSTRAMO." Let's not forget the Primarchs that grew up as wild children or on worlds with dying/warring populations. If she had killed them that would have been kinder. As written now? She's a coward and a Karen. She was willing to put up with the Emperor for an untold time but then it surprised her that the sons of a man with deity like powers (in combination with her own) were going to be generals in a war to reunite humanity? Is that the joke I'm missing? I wanted a woman involved with the Primarch's creation, but not if it was going to be this poorly conceived. Better she had died trying to keep them anchored to Terra, with her loss scarring the Emperor, than have her toss her sons to the dark to "save" them and "give a reason" for the Emperor's distrust of others. Best way I can see this being salvaged? She was puppeted by chaos, felt guilty after realizing what she had done, and you have the Emperor mind wipe the bad parts of the encounter with, "You saw me as the bad guy, you had good reasons." It shows them both being a little more human and realistic while, at the very least, showing he has a habit of lying or covering up the truth to maintain the perception of something better. Imagine him not telling his sons about Erda solely because she's like a bad ex that he still cares for and, he might not like what she did but he's not going to talk shit about her in front of her way too perceptive children.

[@dalaminaubis7822]

Imagine being in the Emperor's inner circle though? This demigod who's plans are absolute. He does every thing "for humanity" but at the expense of the humanity of others. The custodians are sociopathic murder machines, and at the end of the day, despite how amazing he is or how grand his intentions, the Emperor is an absolute tyrant. It was her decision to follow him. But it wouldn't be a choice for their children. And when someone has a child (let alone 20(21)) for the first time, seeing their entire life already being planned out for them... Well, if anything can change someone's perspective, it's that.

[@100thMkey]

Having Erda falling to Chaos inspired temptation and throwing humanity off course against the wishes of its savior does fit the biblical motif that is somewhat present in the lore of the Emperor, ironically enough.

[@UncleMikeDrop]

I used to believe that the scattering of the Primarchs was unplanned, but the Worlds where they ended up were too perfectly suited to their respective natures for that to be entirely true.

[@DEMONX62]

Could've been unplanned by the emprah but chaos couldve had it planned. Many of the world the loyalist primarchs landed on had the subtle taint of chaos or their experiences led them to temptation. It was always up to the primarchs (except angron and maybe magnus) to follow the path to damnation

[@UncleMikeDrop]

@@DEMONX62 Yeah, but if the chaos gods planned it, wouldn't they have orchestrated events in a manner that would have corrupted all of the Primarchs? Since when have the chaos gods cared about free will? It's also important to note that the method listed above leaves all the more humans alive to worship chaos thus further empowering them.

[@dave-ish8098]

look at the Lion, literal child lost on a chaos-tainted deathworld. I think Chaos meant for him to either A) be killed in the wild or B) if he proved strong enough to survive, corrupt him.

[@kennyhildebrand3299]

Or the planets they landed on determined their personality.

[@janmarkiewicz1889]

I cant remember which one for sure but I think it was magnus who remarked that every primarch landed on a planet that suited his personality and that it was planned, but he didnt specify by whom it was planned

[@andresf9072]

an emotional woman, chaos... tomato, tomatoe

[@jasonokasuo3401]

I like the fact that the Chaos Gods did not reach into the heart of the Emperor's domain and forcefully do something like that, but rather there needing to be a human element involved - a treason of sorts, rather than a wap storm just starting inside the lab out of nowhere...

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

Some people seems to think that Dan Abnett is to blame here, but the entire author team as well as the editorial staff worked on this jointly. They all signed off on this revelation.

[@akiramasashi9317]

I doubt they actually read it.

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

@@akiramasashi9317 In the series of interviews they all gave, it is made quite clear, that they had meticulous planing sessions together. A change this big had to have been approved by them collectively.

[@derfzgrld]

@@Kristian.B.Kristiansen this does not look like it was planed at all...

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

@@derfzgrld that is debatable. Ever since Abnett introduced the Perpetuals in Legion and told us that Big E was one in Unremembered Empire, they have been playing with these ideas. It also fits the theme of the Emperor being a flawed and lying human being, which are one of the key themes in the Horus Heresy series.

[@derfzgrld]

@@Kristian.B.Kristiansen yea I really meant that it didnt look planed. I have no doubt that people are able to mess even the best planed things up as if they were unplaned.

[@AMH9645]

It is such a let down, at least for me. The scattering by chaos gods is more fitting, this primarch's mother or whatever seems forced into the lore..

[@Fenristhegreat]

The primarchs don't have a mother. This is heresy of the worst degree. Erda is clearly a deeply troubled and disturbed woman.

[@brya9681]

lol ya boy got mommy problems over here

[@silversurfer8818]

In Horus vision (time traveling), he met Valdor in the secret geno-vaults beneath the Himalayan peaks. Whereby Horus proceeded by killing numerous Custodes - the emperor was present also, he could have ended the scattering with a wave of his hand, but did not. Instead, he erased Valdors memories and replaced them with fabricated ones. To allow his pawns to be placed back onto the chessboard once more, because the game must continue - exactly like "HE" designed it!

[@michaelhowell2326]

This one of the very few channels I automatically hit the like button for. Not once I have thought, "Damn, that sucked.". Love the stories, discussions and news updates. Great stuff, Rho.

[@qigonglungz]

Agreed... Lore, stories... anything Wolf Lord does gets auto-liked... lol

[@banneduser5187]

Same here. And i'm a fussy bastard with my like button lol. But yeah Rho, Baldermort and A.B.P always get insta liked every time from me. They all have impeccable form and therefor earned it imo

[@michaelhowell2326]

@@banneduser5187 couldn't have said better myself.

[@MrNRAfan91]

there was a part in "the first heretic" where when the word bearers were sent back in time to the emperors lab, you are told that the emperor actually notices their presence but ignores them. So the emperor actually wanted the scattering to happen. Which makes since considering that the teleporters sent them to planets that suited their personalities/physique, the emperor didnt care if the chaos gods could achieve it or not because he already had a plan if they would do it

[@akiramasashi9317]

This is actual proof Abnett needs to step back from Warhammer, because this was an absolutely atrocious decision. He Rian Johnsoned the crap out of the HH.

[@ipot399]

We're how many novels into the Horus Heresy and they want to introduce this now during the Siege of Terra? If they wanted to throw in 'hey the Primarchs have a mom, guys' like this should have been one of the first things they explored, maybe even before Horus's own downfall.

[@akiramasashi9317]

@@ipot399 Not only that but personally I feel that the Primarchs having a mother doesn't really jive well with the story in general. Like, I always imagined the Primarchs as these perfectly hand-crafted veritable demigods of war, sculpted to genetic perfection by the Emperor himself. Plus, Guilliman and Guilliman alone grew up with a mother-figure, which the other Primarchs were envious of, so suddenly *ALL* of them having a mother kinda spits on that unique aspect of Guilliman. AND Malcador once joked that maybe the Emperor should have created a female Primarch, which didn't the Emperor didn't find very amusing, which only lent further credence to the theory that the Primarchs were made to order by Daddy E himself from his own genetic material, kind of like clones but not really. I mean, if the Primarchs had a mother, wouldn't there have been equal odds of there being a girl among the births? (Fulgrim doesn't count), and I don't really see the Emperor of all people being such a misogynist that he purposefully changed the gender of his own children. I mean seriously, 20 kids and all of them male? That can't be a coincidence. Not with natural births. This whole thing just doesn't fit, and feels very shoehorned in just to appease an incredibly small yet vocal minority of Femcels.

[@joevines3428]

So how were they scattered then? What's a better explanation? This has been the biggest plot hole in 40k for years, they had to address it at some point. I think a better scenario is maybe a cult of spykers betraying the Emporer is more palatable, but that is still a clunky solution. I hate the idea of chaos just snatching them up without mortal help though.

[@joevines3428]

@@akiramasashi9317 I think Fulgrim was found by male and female labourers on Chemos. They probably raised him too fora bit but primarchs grow up fast.

[@akiramasashi9317]

@@joevines3428 Remember how those Astartes were sent back in time by Ingethel? They turned off the Gellar fields protecting the Emperor's lab, which let Chaos snatch them away. It's a time paradox. Which sounds very Warpy and exactly like something the Chaos Gods would do.

[@aidanhearn4210]

Even if she wasn't controlled or manipulated by or working for the Chaos Gods, she cast her children into the warp and practically handed them over to the 4 to disperse as they pleased. It's not beyond possibility they used her weakness and stupidity as a tool to their devices, making both parts true. Just my opinion from reading the story

[@Dreadbringer]

I always imagine that there was a psichic contest between the emperor and the ruinous powers during the scattering, and thats why a few ended in deathworlds and why others in places that suited them, thinking everyone ended where they should Its complete BS.

[@Duppyman695]

I like that, battling The Chaos Gods to try and save his Sons, unfortunately it was mommy Primarch !

[@Dreadbringer]

@@Duppyman695 yeah but i just dont buy It too little too late, im keeping my idea as a cannon

[@Duppyman695]

I hope it turns out to be Chaos, just the best scenario !

[@Cptraktorn]

I always just thought the primarchs were adaptible beings that would be molded by the planets they came to, not that everything was chosen beforehand.

[@Josh4president]

Anything related to the Emperor written by Dan Abnett can be safely ignored. Much as I love how he writes there's quite a gulf in quality between the ones he likes and the ones he doesn't.

[@ZeroOmega-vg8nq]

"The great GW" Their recent behavior makes me say X to doubt.

[@ShadrackMeduson]

Well you have to say that to avoid a clam from GW.

[@kelman727]

I hope you weren’t expecting a medal. And you sound like that twonk Arch Warhammer.

[@WinterburnVideos]

@@kelman727 and yet, he's right on this...

[@TheSMC1988]

Idk feels forced. How could you work on a project this intense and not realize they would be living weapons?

[@quesocoatl21]

sef-delusion

[@aidanhearn4210]

The Emperor is a very convincing man. And the Primarchs aren't JUST weapons. They were meant to be the lords and protectors of mankind too

[@dalaminaubis7822]

Nothing changes one's perspective like becoming a parent. Seeing the living child that you created, and then imagining the centuries of war they are destined to endure.

[@brya9681]

Its forced? You don't know what that means, like giving half your DNA to kids isn't forced, its how you makes kids, test tube or natural lol

[@lucklord7]

Emperor in one of the last books: I was the one that caused the scattering. It was getting too nice and peaceful around here and needed some drama.

[@peem]

Even Magnus couldnt break through the psychic defenses of Terra without the help of Chaos when he raced to warn the Emperor of Horus treachery. It's hard to believe Erda could do this unaided. Granted I haven't read the book so I don't know how powerful she is.

[@craigfoulger5996]

I was reading it on the train the other week when I got to the part with who I've taken to calling "Pri'momis" and when she said she scattered them! BOOOOM!! i sat there with my jaw open. Not because it was the best plot but because they finally, after all this time and all those debates, closed the argument. We now know it was neither chaos or Emp.

[@Aaron-zk2wu]

I don't know why you see these as 2 totally different accounts. It sounds like to me that Chaos knew Erda wouldn't accept the Emperor's plans for the Primarchs, so they create the conditions that would allow for her to scatter them, as Chaos wanted, but was unable to do on their own. That's kind of the whole point of Chaos isn't it? They get others to act on their behalf in realities outside the warp, this is just another example.

[@joevines3428]

Exactly like Magnus and Horus who meant the best for humanity. I'm fine with this Erda character being the one who scattered the Primarchs, if the chaos god's could just do shit like this without help it creates massive plot holes.

[@Damo2690]

I completly agree with you. I don't why everyone is treating this like it changes anything. Chaos still scattered tge Primarchs but did it through Erda

[@kaj9245]

I love it being undone by a mother. It is just so simple and human. The Primarchs are More than human but human all the same. We talk always about the absent father but the mother never even entered the discussion. Imagine if the Primarchs had met their mother and the change in events we would have had. I would like more detail on her but I think the simplicity of it makes it better. Ya, it could of been some complex chaos plot but no just a simple decision by the mother.

[@jasonparrish8670]

Well, this does make a good argument for how perpetual gene-material got into the Primarchs without the Big E also being a perpetual. As well, this ret-cons the lab found by Corvax when he's given permission to retrieve his Legions' primary gene-seed to recover the Raven Guard. The entire primary chamber is destroyed. I think it's easier to think that Erda got the shit scared out of her when she realized how powerful the Primarchs were in finished form and what they could do for the Emperor... this would definitely shock any plans The Cabal might have had for them.

[@Ishida2725]

This is 100% without doubt the best channel for 40k content. Hands down.

[@Clarkeh616]

I personally think the Emperor was aware of what was going to happen to his children in some capacity, when the Gella field was sabotaged and the warp seeped in and started destroying the lab I think the emperor himself opened up portals and sent his children into the void to save them from the destructive warp storm (this is my take from the description of the tubes being struck by lightning which I think means the chaos gods were trying to assasinate them)

[@HodigieBronson1073]

I do kindof like the addition of the character of Urda, the primarchs having had a potential long lost mother figure strikes me as a fascinating idea and another example of the bitter sweat alternate reality of what could have been, with the primarchs the emperor and Urda all being a happy imperial family. When it comes to the now retconned lore that it was actually Urda who scattered the primarchs I absolutely hate it. It should be that it was chaos who caused it, and Urda was the one who ALLOWED it to happen. It always struck me as kinda dumb that chaos just magically got into the imperial palace and achieved their goal so easily, if chaos had that kind of power why can't they just magically kill the emperor on the golden throne in the current 40k timeline? It would make sense that they would have had someone on the inside to help them get to the primarch labs, I like the idea that chaos manipulated Urda into helping them, no doubt using her fear of the Emperor's ambitions to gain her trust.

[@gabrielm.942]

Or maybe they showed that fear, I like that they manipulated her, but only time will tell if that’s how it happened

[@vit968]

*They invented Erda to be the Eve to the Emperor's Adam and they did it incompetently.*

[@Jagonath]

It kind of amazes me how people just take all of this at face value. Like, we've a Horus POV scene/vision while unconscious on Davin, where he breaks pods, fights and kills custodians, and sees or causes the chaos portal to open up and fling away. We've had Argel Tal POV where he destroys the Geller Field protecting the dungeon. We've had Valdor POV scenes where he sees the pods gone. So why does everyone just assume all of that has now been retconned out of the story? Those writers were sitting in the planning room with Dan when he pitched them the Erda idea, and they were still ok with it. The GW editors were ok with it too, even though they surely knew how people would react. Obviously the "Erda Revelation" is leading somewhere, and isn't just "Gotya, all your lore is broken now ahahaha!" It will turn out that Erda had nothing to do with it/Erda made it up to manipulate John Grammaticus/Erda was manipulated by Chaos/Erda is a daemon/Erda's plan was known to the Emperor and he allowed it to trick Chaos etc etc. Also Erda is not canonically their "mother" just because she thinks of them as her "sons." It just means they have some perpetual DNA in them that didn't come from the Emperor. We already know the Emperor doesn't view them as "sons."

[@timothylyons5686]

It's like the Brazen Drakes chapter, invented to be destroyed by Chaos. And if it doesn't work Games Workshop can always ret-con it.

[@Salted_Fysh]

Honestly, the first issue I take with all of this is that some author thought he had to give the Primarchs a mother. Because Emperor forbid, a civilization as advanced as that would stray from the immutable rule of male and female conception or 'motherly feelings' (being used once again as a 'oh, if it wasn't for the misguided emotional mother' moment). My second issue is that the reasoning is incredibly weak. If she wanted to spare her 'children' from their fathers' plans, she should have killed them, not scattered them across the warp. But given point of issue 1, I'm fairly certain the author is once again enforcing own world view upon a fictional setting. And thirdly, as you pointed out, we're supposed to believe that a being that has been with the emperor for hundred, thousands if not tens of thousands of years, wasn't able to figure out his character in all that time but only then had a sudden epiphany and the best plan she could come up with was 'murder everyone involved, scatter children across warp'. And Chaos mastermind would honestly make this whole thing even worse to me, because then it comes back to the whole mothership thing where she is being emotionally manipulated because, in essence, she's a woman.

[@watchingvideosalot3960]

My canon: Erda is deluded and gets possessed by a Tzeentchian agent to remove the primarchs. Clearly, to her, Konrad and Angron are better off because of their experiences, so maybe she thought even the foulest powers are preferable. She thought she made a deal with Tzeentch to relocate them to a safer place, but in reality tzeentch wanted them undone or killed (Angron, Lion and Russ for example).

[@joevines3428]

That is probably close to what the writer wanted.

[@dawall3732]

I think there is a lot of potential for a much larger and in-depth story of their mother if indeed she actually is their mother and doesn't get eventually removed from the Canon. Many people forget that there is not actually 20 primark's. There is in fact 21 primark's in the cannon. There is a first and older Primark who was conceived and born before the 20 were. This Proto Primark was more powerful than the other primark's potentially more powerful even than the emperor. The 20 primark's were created to fight Wars and conquer as well as build, construct and administrate and do all the things needed for the creation of an Empire in the materium. The first and eldest Primark the first Primark born with wings was created for the purpose of Waging War against chaos in the inmaterium. We have to remember the demons and Demon princes were running rampant on Earth before the 20 primark's were conceived and born. During the unification Wars on Terra the emperor created his first primarch to fight against the forces of the ruinous Powers. He later had to imprison this Primark placing him in stasis. In the lore he still exist. Imagine what that must have been like for a mother. Her firstborn Primark child had to be tricked and contained because he possibly threatened all of the Galaxy on his own. Because he would not stop or end his war against the ruinous powers. Because he could not he was designed specifically to fight that war. Imagine she saw this and then she's looking at the conception of 20 more children and she's thinking to herself what's going to become of them what's going to happen to them are they only going to be weapons. There's a moment of doubt in there that even for a Perpetual the ruinous powers can manipulate. In the moment of that manipulation it's snap those pods away. Maybe it's all of the various events happening at once. A mother that powerful with doubts plaguing her mind sees a demon with corrupted grandchildren show up and Destroy the Gellar field generator. There is an instant of fear coupled with doubt and the manipulation of the ruinous powers on her heart and mind. She wants to protect and save her children and what she perceives to be the enemy of her children have invaded the laboratory where they sleep. She has to get them away or so she thinks she does because somebody's pushing her in that direction. Yes there is a very good story here waiting to be told. If somebody can actually do it right.

[@TheSeanoops]

I like this. It reminds me of the Ancient Greek myth of Kronos and Rhea, the parents of the Olympian gods and goddesses. In the story Kronos was afraid his children would become to powerful and overthrow him. So he ate them all, except one, Zeus, who Rhea was able to hide and raise. Then Rhea tricked Kronos into eating a rock, then drinking poison to make him throw up her other Olympian children. Who then overthrew their father led by their brother Zeus. Granted, the stories aren’t the same, but there is a common theme. The mother trying to protect her children from being devoured by their father. What do you think?

[@connorross5341]

I like it!

[@NeonFlaming0]

I like the idea that the emporer is trying to save humanity and their own emotions and flaws keep getting in their own way and stopping him from reaching his goal.

[@XBOXTimeDevil]

I'm flabbergasted by this revelation! In all my 20+ years following 40k lore there's never been an inkling that the Demi gods had a Mother. Now it's been raised, how couldn't they have needed a X + Y chromosome to form creation? I'm more worried that this might drag my beloved world of literature, escapism and daring do into the recent realm of gender politics. So the Primarchs might have had a Mother but she cast them to the winds of the warp in as much fear of Him as the ruinous powers. It harks of the original sin to me. None of the above was easy to write and I hope that all who read accept that I'm being genuine and these are my initial thoughts on the matter.

[@Fenristhegreat]

Right there with you mate. There's no need for anyone else. The emperor presumably, as all men do, has both an X and y chromosome. The primarchs are genetically modified clones of the emperor, a mother is unnecessary.

[@insiainutorrt259]

Eggs with zero mothers attached are sort of already almost available irl right now would be easy for empie to make whats needed...

[@joevines3428]

Leman Russ has wolf DNA. Is it that crazy to think over humans gave their DNA to the primarch project?

[@Fenristhegreat]

@@joevines3428 To my mind, no, it is not crazy to imagine they received DNA from other sources than the Emperor. Indeed, this is considered to be an integral part of the Primarch project. As you point out, one suggestion is that the 'Canis Helix' may be wolf DNA to some degree. This is entirely consistent with genetic modification. The question is: would that wolf be considered Leman Russ's *mother* . If so, you literally make Leman Russ a 'son of a bitch'. This is clearly unacceptable heresy. The Primarchs are born of the Emperor alone, he conceived them, chose what elements to add and remove, and it is through his will and vision alone that they came into being.

[@DarkNaifu]

The idea that humanity caused its own downfall fits with the lore, so that part I don't have a problem with. But making the person responsible the emperor's crazy ex-girlfriend, who decided to scratch-up his car because he's going away for college, is just cringey. They should have left it as the Chaos Gods or used someone from the 40k era (via timetravel), like Abaddon or one of the fallen primarchs -- basically someone with history, not some rando.

[@Duppyman695]

I agree, or that it was the Emperor himself to have the Primarch's raised on different planets that will forge there characters. Mommy Primarch angry at dad just doesn't fit.

[@Mosamania]

I personally liked the concept, Urda having a hand in the scattering doesn’t mean Chaos wasn’t involved, throughout the books it is very clear that chaos was involved, and maybe Urda was being manipulated by a different branch of the scattering operation, this is how chaos works after all, the chaos causing the scattering doesn’t equate to Khorne personally grabbing them and throwing them as hard as he could in space, because that’s not how chaos works. The greatest thing about the Horus Heresy series and the Siege of Terra series is that it revealed beneath the god like perception of emperor and primarchs lies a very human heart with very human weaknesses.

[@HumphreyapplebySir]

I must admit I feel uncomfortable with this, not because of the story change there have been plenty of those already. This currently makes Chaos almost irrelevant and lucky to have got the primarchs they did. Also this changes it from the Emporer being brought down by his arrogance and hubris in thinking he could get away with deceiving the chaos gods to someone brought down by a woman, that does no feel at all comfortable unless Chaos used her as an agent. It's a weak, unnecessary surprise that has a faint whiff of sexism about it. I also wonder if my own indifference to the perpetuals is a part if it as well. They are the least exciting thing about the entire lore.

[@GaryWilliamsJr]

You touched on how I feel

[@andrebonds4199]

Down with the patriarchy and all that stupidity.

[@HumphreyapplebySir]

@@andrebonds4199 you replied to the wrong comment

[@andrebonds4199]

Ian Hearn I was being sarcastic.

[@HumphreyapplebySir]

@@andrebonds4199 fair enough not always obvious.

[@kleingilles7959]

I remember, in a short story, the primarchs night haunter and sanguinius discussing the fact they both “knew” that the scattering was their father’s plan all along. So it not being caused by the chaos is no real news. So it is chaos and the Emperor and Erda. And by the way, all of it could be true as the chaos works through agents that may be wanting to to do the good thing (following their guts instead of their brain for the mother or being utterly arrogant and self-centered for the father ). A part of the emperor’s psyche wanted the scattering to forge its weapons, the mother to steal her kids from their progenitor and all of it wIlled by chaos because it is an émanation of our vices, fear, ambitions...

[@swh1964]

Just read Valdor on the weekend, and Saturnine yesterday. Twas amazing new lore and info. I look forward to the story being more 'unpacked' as I feel more updates on this story will be forthcoming

[@slyscott1430]

And in the end the father still got his way, just not in his way, but faaaar from the mother's. And to find out if she will even know, their father killed one of her own sons, and how her own sons killed eachother. Her grandsons, butchered one another. Of all the terrible that has come from the scattering, and the hypocrisy of blaming the father for his ambitions? Wasn't her ambitions to better their lives by scattering them? Now their generals of war for the gods of a hellish dimension. Rather than how the father made them a general of war, to build a better future that they could live in, for a better future. All of this could have possibly been avoided.

[@combomaster666]

When Horus came out of his meeting with the gods of chaos he was fully convinced he took all that power from them by force. Seems entirely possible that chaos gods played primarch mother into thinking she scattered them out of her own will, basically doing an inception on her.

[@Masterlink53]

The only real good feeling I get from a revelation like that, is that truly her hope to give them different destinies damned them even further into just becoming war generals, and some of them aided Chaos and are lost forever. That and it shows the irony that humanity screwed itself over, like always, instead of blaming everything that is bad on the warp. But there are still a ton of holes that do not make sense. Most of them landed on planets, as if they were perfectly molded to dominate it, to better fit them as war generals. Some had challenges that were too much for them, and broke them or led to their eventual downfall. (Theory Time) I know the assumption is that Chaos had its play, but its funny that Eldrad's name came up, as maybe he had a part to play. If Erda's play was only stealing them from the facility, and she handed them to someone else that she trusted, maybe she didn't choose where to place them and merely asked someone else to hide them because her options were, 1- If she hid them all together The Emperor would find them all at once, 2-If she herself hid them, there would be a layer of protection and obviousness as to where they were, 3-Giving them to Chaos as this point would be brain dead writing because they are the ultimate enemy and she would clearly be out of her mind at this point. Eldrad is kinda trustworthy and he can see into the future, and would surely gamble at a play to destroy Chaos, similar how he did to Ynnead. Now in this situation, I can understand how they ended up in places that could make or break them, yet oddly perfectly fit them without bias on whether or not they would survive or succeed. Chaos's biggest success in that case was to make it seemed like they planned it all or that the Emperor planned it. The doubt is simply too great to ignore. Erda handing them to Chaos, while still believing in the Emperor's cause, just not wanting it to be "her" sons, makes zero sense. To be completely fair, if Chaos had a play in it, they shouldn't even be alive. The "Chaos did it" propaganda doesn't actually make much sense either when you try to explain it. The best you could come up with is that Tzeentch makes a bunch of plans and chaos doesn't play to win, but to maim and create Chaos (but this makes no sense either because if they drag reality into the warp, they can have their cake and eat it too). But even this has holes, as would 3 Chaos Gods simply let Tzeentch do his thing and agree with his plan? I would bet that they would all get greedy and fight each other, and Chaos had to do a huge invasion through Horus and the webway failure to actually push into the Emperor's domain. If they could just take some secret backdoor to steal some important kids, that would not only lessen the Emperor's powers but also ruin why Chaos had to corrupt a champion in order to win as they could of invaded reality at any moment, with or without Horus. Just my very passionate 2 cents, just wanted to broaden the possibilities. There is always a possibility that the Emperor simply allowed this to happen or agreed with Eldrad being the non-biased decision maker, as 20 spoiled Primarchs might not of ended up well either. The real irony is that the less the Emperor did to mold or interfere with his Primarchs, the better they came out because they believed and agreed with his cause (Horus and Magnus were spoiled; Angron and Mortarion had their life's purpose taken from them due to interference; Perturabo, Fulgrim, and Lorgar became obsessed with his presence or lack of it.). Konrad could of used more Emperor though, a simple "the future isn't set in stone" from the big E himself would of gone a long way.

[@UltimateDeliciousPie]

Irda "I scatted the primarchs" Argel Tal "Hehe geller fields go boom boom."

[@xavier84623]

Pretty much agree with everything u said rho. I always wanted the emp to be semi corrupt in the end. Like, at first he was trying to outsmart the chaos gods, but with the heresy he realized he couldn’t, and at that point his goal actually became to become a literal god, so he could crush chaos with order. But in the end it he wouldn’t be any better, just a super extreme god of order joining the pantheon, to ensure the fighting goes on forever and no single side ever wins, so really the emp was just chaos’s ultimate plan to not burn itself out. Prob tzeench even gave the shamans the mass suicide spell.

[@xavier84623]

All that could still work if its revealed urda was tricked by the chaos gods. Maybe they mad the emp seem more heartless than he was to her, not allowing her to see that he actually did love his sons. I do wonder why he wasnt planning to let her know them tho. Seems pretty fucked. Or maybe that was the chaos lie? Or maybe he detected she was tainted by chaos, or just didnt want to take the risk and was being overly cautious and not thinking about anyones feelings?

[@UsedGames]

The bigger question is where the f*ck is john grammaticus?! In the current timeline!

[@zollen123]

Dan Abnett would not have changed this important story arc without the consent and planning of GW. This change is directly from GW. I simply don't believe a single human psyker, however powerful, can perform such an incredible feat. Beside one would not just open a magic suction portal without knowing where its ends up. I assume she would waited for their children at the other side of the portal and then take them away.

[@erikp4593]

The emperor did this himself. He meant for them to be scattered and raised on these worlds. Its been hinted at in several books.

[@Duppyman695]

This is what I always thought, trail by fire, sink or swim, Rise up and conquer your planet and people! This makes sense why the Primarch's were each raised on planets that forged there characters!

[@Cptraktorn]

Nothing better than to fuck it all up with a last minute retcon that doesnt mesh with literally any part of the previous books of the HH series.

[@DB8ed]

I think chaos definitely still had a role in all this. Who's to say the chaos gods didnt send Tzeench to mess with her mind and give her all those ideas? Who then enticed her to call chaos somehow or maybe preform a forbidden and rare ritual that actually allowed the chaos gods to manifest in some sort of way. Considering that we have always been told that the gods of chaos THEMSELVES, and not say servants, or cultists, or demons manifested by them, no the gods themselves scattered the primarchs across space and the fact that manifestation of a chaos god in real space would cause such a psychic backlash that would kill most people across the galaxy it makes sense if you think about it. If the mother is responsible for the scattering of the primarchs, whatever the hell she did, she made it so that all 4 of the chaos gods could manifest all at once, albeit only partially and for a limited time, and physically enter a heavily protected and sanctified area to steal other life forms. Such an eben wpulda definitely killed all psykers in the galaxy, and maybe even some non psykers with the severity of the powers being unleashed into real space. It would also explain what the emperor was doing throughout the even. During this, the Emperor mustve had to deal with/lessen the impact from the psychic backlash from all 4 chaos gods manifesting so that potentially the entirety of the human race wouldnt die in a horiffic psychic attack and at the same time keep his laboratory from collapsing even further. In the end i can see all of this being another plot from the ruinous powers, and their mother was just another manipulated tool.

[@EchoMirage72]

Erebus, Horus, Lorgar, and Argal Tal all got under the Himilaya's. It could be argued that the Custodes thought they were the Chaos Gods. I think that the suviving Custodes thought they were Gods because of what would have been required to get to that place. The Emperor expressely recognizes Horus when they meet and then backs away, and the Primarchs are then flung out.

[@DB8ed]

@@EchoMirage72 if time warp fuckery was truly involved, then you could very well be correct. That would give validation to the theory that it was indeed the emperor's plan all along. Perhaps if the emperor really did go into the warp and learned how to create the primarchs from the chaos gods, maybe part of the deal was that he had to give up half of what he created (his sons), or simply allow half of them to fall to chaos. That could be one explanation as to why the emperor just seemed to let shit happen. Otherwise i dont think emps would just let all the bad shit that happened happen just like that.

[@mw5769]

The main issue is that none of that has hinted at or expressed at all with her character, it is entirely fan speculation trying to justify a very very poorly done character and plot point

[@ZeroFallout1]

Sounds about right, if you know woman this isn't far from the truth. " From the streets she came to the streets return".

[@agentorangecb1]

Great video and share your vuew entirely, there must be more to it!! Perhaps the Emperor made hee think it was her when it wasn't?

[@MrTolgarion]

Well the emperor must have planned on its especially if you consider russ landed on fenris with the canis helix which was in his geneseed already, and also Erda seems like the perpetual Karen.

[@KaiserAfini]

It was Argel Tal, because he was working for Lorgar. Since everything is Lorgar's fault, this is the correct possibility,

[@ChrisHopkinsBass]

I think that the plan all along was for the primarchs to be scattered by the Chaos Gods so that they could be placed on the planets that best suited them- that was part of the bargain he struck with them on Molech. The way that the Emperor treated Erda was because he couldn't be seen to be helping with the scattering by Chaos and needed her to disabled the Geller fields to allow the powers to do it. This would also give the Emperor "plausable deniability" and "blame it on the woman"

[@Nyctophora]

Exactly! What a crazy own goal this is. I completely agree about the Perpetuals and to be honest I am not a fan of this Primarch-mother idea. It's too late to bring this in, and it feels really grafted on. The closest I ever got to wondering if they had a mother was wondering if the Emperor used human ova or did something something genetic wizardry something. Putting this in when it's not true in order to muddy the waters for the sake of muddying the waters feels just that, for the sake of it. If it is the new truth, putting it in solely in order to change the story feels ... just very weak. Going out on a limb a bit more, it feels as if Dan Abnett came up with an idea that "switcheroo lol" and everyone on the editorial team was too star-struck to stop him. Not that he isn't good, perhaps this wasn't his idea but it really is a dumb one, and I hope at the end of it Pamela wakes up and it was all a dream. "We have always been at war with Eurasia."

[@AROBASPARK]

Well oof! The lads did have a mother after all and caused their scattering. I can't wait for that family talk between Emps and Magnus and Dorn in If the Emperor had Text Speech Device. This is something it should had been kept a mystery.

[@SpoonieMcspoonington]

Their mothers were a tube

[@MKempICI]

@@SpoonieMcspoonington Indeed. In Mount Fookin Everest.

[@warmech95]

I think she could slide into the lore by facilitating the chaos gods plans to scatter the primarchs. say she pointed the time travellers the right way to go to disable the shields. something subtle like that. but doing the whole thing herself? Nah! To me the scattering was defo the chaos gods at work and Urda is taking more credit than she is due. Tho it would be cool to see how she related to the primarchs had they been kept on Terra. nice to see theres other aspects other than the emperor included in their make up and may explain their vast and varied differences.

[@nrcaknights1]

I'm listening to Saturnine right now, its easily best book in the seige and its an incredible novel so far. Dan abnett has done great job.

[@nobodyimportant5417]

Or, Urda was just as manipulated as everybody else. Just as planned!

[@nikolayvladimirov8633]

I was seriously disappointed when I heard that the primarchs mom was a perpetual. Imagine e how cool it would habe been for her to be some mysterious old goddess like the big E. Theories about their creation would have run wild.

[@Pemmont107]

​@@nikolayvladimirov8633 To be honest I'm not all that fond of Perpetuals: They add very little to the ovearching story, considering how many pages are filled with their boring, drawn-out plotlines.

[@nikolayvladimirov8633]

@@Pemmont107 Yeah they are there just to add complexity, which isn't needed. I liked it more when it was just this mysterious power some 1 in a sextillion people had and nobody understood really

[@billl2903]

I mean the idea of a member of primarch the project having their morals catch up with them is a good call, but making it a ‘mom’ is lame. Would’ve been cool if it was some brand new and pivotally important psyker that valdor put a bullet in, and listened to their last words which haunted him forever. It’s fine that chaos had no part in the scattering; if you really think about it, chaos never tainted them at all. Their exceeding power and egotism let chaos in, of their own free will. And their personalities that allowed this were designed by the emperor, it was essentially all his fault.

[@EchoMirage72]

My theory on this is that the scattering was done by the Primarchs who appeared to the Legio Custodes as Daemons. In Horus' journey through the warp with Erebus, when Horus sees The Emperor, The Emperor recognizes Horus through the Warp storm, and shortly after that the Primarchs are flung into space. If the Erda story is real then she probably worked somehow through time with Lorgar to scatter the Primarchs. Lorgar is the best choice for this as he is the first to rail against The Emperor, so who better to get to destroy his grand scheme then someone who hates him so very much?

[@masakari3990]

Yea, the concept of Erda is fine with her being the mother but having her cause the scattering, especially for such a cliche reason, feels like a bad retcon. Only thing that would make me feel better would her being some kind of agent of chaos and not just manipulated in the moment.

[@ahrenmann908]

You see, half of all young men take the wrong path when they grow up without a father

[@drkmtr9090]

I feel like the demon prince taking the Wordbearers back in time was just a ruse. The ruinous powers show what they want you to see, and if they can goad you into participating all the better. In Urda’s case (not sure if thats how its spelled), Its a lot more likely she’s the one who lowered the Geller field. Chaos getting to her and using maternal instinct against her to sew doubt about their “anathema” really seems like something they’d do. Anyway, keep up the fantastic work WolfLord!

[@booradley6832]

Lets be honest this changes very little. Primarchs are human, just as the emperor had a mother and father they too needed a female donor. We now know her name. No matter what she did to "Cast them to the tides" she isnt powerful enough to steal all 20 kids from the most heavily guarded location in the galaxy outside of the black library, with some dark age of technology security systems, Malcador, Valdor, a few hundred thousand custodes, and a really watchful janitor named Simeon. She partially disabled one thing that led to a Rube Goldberg Machine of things going slightly wrong so that the actual powerful beings could open up a portal and snatch them up. This was poorly planned but altogether very little impact.

[@Duppyman695]

The Emperor was created by shaman's combining there souls in a ritual, no mommy! , no daddy!

[@booradley6832]

But....he did? he was born on the banks of the Sicaya(sp?) river in modern day Turkey. Born. From a woman.

[@KnightsWithoutATable]

Maybe the future where the Primarchs stayed on Terra they all fall to Chaos and she scattered them to change that? Maybe she was there when the Ruinious Powers got in and were going to corrupt or kill the Primarchs , so she scattered them to protect them as Big E kept most of the Daemons at bay, but couldn't keep all of them out.

[@norbertblackrain2379]

Maybe she scattered them as Chaos struck to destroy them?

[@jakebailey1636]

The simplicity and vaguity as to how she made her decision leaves a lot of potential her visions of what she did not want her children to have could of been pushed, or manipulated in some fashion- it wouldn't be the first time after all

[@johnsilver5783]

I think you might be wrong. Unless it was worded in a very specific way, I believe the general consensus is that Erda lowered the gellar fields which enabled the chaos gods to seize the opportunity to scatter them. The chaos gods still did it, Erda just allowed it to happen. This is what I've heard mostly from that bit from Saturnine.

[@michaelhowell2326]

This has been a really heavy week. Malcador started the Imperial Church, Urda, the mother of the Primarchs is the one that scattered them. More revelations in a week than in 20 years of 40k. I think the "mother" concept is cool. It helps humanize the Primarchs. And it makes sense since they would have to that X chromosome from somewhere.

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

Want one more? The proto inquisition was almost certainly started by Rogal Dorn. He wanted a new version of the remembrancer order to write history for the future.

[@Fenristhegreat]

Men have an X chromosome too... The emperor needed nothing but his genius to make the primarchs.

[@coltonlong2223]

Didnt the imperial cult get founded based on a loyalist of the Word Bearers?

[@michaelhowell2326]

@@coltonlong2223 that's what we've been lead to believe until very recently. He sermised that if the Chaos gods were able to live off the beliefs, actions and prayers then maybe E could too.

[@michaelhowell2326]

@@Kristian.B.Kristiansen I haven't heard that one yet. I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Malcador started the Inquisition on orders from the Emperor.

[@Deltarious]

I'm not opposed to Erda's character nor the new angle of being the primarch's ' forgotten mother' and to be honest her story as a perpetual is really interesting to me, but I *am* against it being directly her doing the scattering. I think maybe it works better if instead chaos was whispering to *her* without her realising it, chaos' master plan that they've been working on for centuries. Maybe even still in that story perhaps some memory is missing, and so she basically 'enables' chaos to take them away and scatter them. I would like it more if she realised what was happening and how awful it would actually be, sort of like a 'careful what you wish for' and it'd be even better still if realising what was about to happen she becomes enraged and beset with the burning desire for her children to be okay so strongly that it ends up affecting the worlds they end up on, which explains why many of the worlds tend to 'suit' their fundamental personalities but aren't quite perfect and seed flaws in most cases. This would then end up being a really complex story line but we *are* dealing with the primarchs here and it would balance all the existing lore nicely. It doesn't even have to be a direct retcon if she simply cannot remember what happened propely thanks to chaos and she still thought it was entirely her doing and that she sent them to only perfect worlds who'd raise them well

[@Vohtwomax]

I have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about and I'm definitely speaking out of school since I'm a new comer to 40k lore, but it would seem to me that the chaos gods could have "tainted" her in roughly the same way as Horus. Chaos seem to play on the greatest strengths of humans and turn them to weapons. You raise a valid point that she probably should have known wtf was going down with the Emperor's plans since the Primarch project was chief among them..... But it would seem to me that chaos turned the mother's love in to yet another weapon to hurt the emperor....

[@frankfelerski1043]

My theory has always been that while on Molech, Emps cut a deal with the 4 that they would get *most* of the primarchs (9 traitor +2 fallen) in exchange for the knowledge and skills required to create them

[@davidbarry5512]

This kind of supports an idea I've had for awhile that no only did the emperor and the chaos god's know the scattering was going to happen but both sides let it play out that way because the primarchs being split evenly between the two sides is part of the deal the emperor made with chaos. The emperor is trying to defeat chaos by becoming part of the great game between the gods and trying to force a conclusion to that never ending conflict.

[@T0mN7]

The way it was worded, it sounds like she was being manipulated by Chaos. Like she was shown some sort of vision of the future. And then she unwittingly ended up causing what she was trying to create.

[@GreatChickenGod]

this kind of puts a different perspective on things. it does kind of make sense, cause the whole "motherly protection" which in this case is somewhat reminiscent of the moses story, but just like cawl, i have mixed feelings of introducing new characters that have supposedly had a huge impact on the past. i hate it cause it just puts them there out of nowhere, but then i like that they elaborate the past more, so i don't know

[@deenadayalan3562]

i always loved warhammer lore until i heard this. It could've been a mystery and left unexplained forever and still i would love it.

[@1Three8Fiver]

Erda, fighting the Emperors toxic masculinity by taking the children and denying their Father access to them... Nice of the Black Library to acknowledge the damage that this does to children.

[@johnsmith-zc9qn]

Wait.... I don't remember which novel the story was told in but it was Logar's journey to Chaos. The Gal Vorbak traveled in back in time during their transformation and sabotaged the gellar field generators surrounding the primarchs gestation pods allowing the Chaos gods to scatter them. And this is a far older novel then the entry of Erda into the story. I believe Erda is deceived or seduced by the Chaos god into believing what she says but as we know reality in the warp is suggestive thing. The Gal Vorbak were the instruments of the scattering of the Primarchs.

[@madginger3634]

I want Chaos still involved. I think this story is much more convincing if Chaos manipulated her into it. Even better if she is left to think it's all and only her fault. Imho

[@edpistemic]

And then maybe the Emperor triple crossed by letting them think they'd got one over him, only to direct them to worlds compatible with their strengths so as to make his sons what he wanted them to be in the first place?

[@thomaschinyere-ezeh6676]

Disappointed? This is a fantastic twist. Slowly through Gulliman and other the emperor is being Painted as who he really is. An ambitious ego maniac that wanted tools to rule the universe. he allowed them to call him father as that gave a closer affinity to him.

[@tramico96]

The Greatest Enemy of the Emperor was not the Chaos Gods....but a CUSTODY DISPUTE...#BLAMEERDA

[@Duppyman695]

Mommy Primarch angry with dad because he's always working on that damm webway project!

[@Chloe_Athey]

I like that the primarchs having a mother of sorts because it gives perhaps a character that could become a big part in the future. In the case of the shattering I'm ok with the fact that it was Erda but I think the reason shouldn't be "the Emporer was to ambitious" and rather that chaos maybe tried to kill the primarchs and she did it to save them from assassination. I think the theory that chaos wanted to kill rather than just scatter the primarchs makes a lot of sense because chaos needs humanity to be weak enough to want to convert to them without a long bloody battle.

[@lead.farmer]

couldnt be happier at this turn of events. no chaos involvement in creating the primarchs. fucking love it.

[@1MoreTurn]

Erda: I love my sons Angron: You sure about that? Curze: No Mother’s Day gifts for you. Logan: Can I worship you?

[@chrisfrombeyond4240]

I always thought it odd that Big E never seemed to show interest in the idea of having a wife. The Empress of Mankind could have been a cool plot point, and marrying a perpetual would be the best option for the Emperor. Perhaps having a mother figure would have helped to reinforce more humanity into the psyche of the Primarchs. Emperor knows Vulkan would have been a mums boy.

[@CatDad63089]

Erda sounds a lot like Urda which has some pretty cool and possibly relevant meanings in Norse mythology as one of the 3 norns who decide the fates of people (as described in stanza TWENTY of the poetica Edda). Following this, besides Big E, and Erda, who is the third E who influences the fate of mankind? Erebus? Eldrad? The Evil Sunz?!?!

[@MrSpartanspud]

I know some people don't like this way of thinking but when I think something canon genuinely ruins a significant portion of a work I just decide it doesn't exist. To me that was never written.

[@connorcmsmith4302]

maybe a combination of all the factors their mother in a moment of weakness began to relate the gellfields around the chamber the primarchs where kept in allowing the astartes from the future to break in and destroy the fields around the pods so the chaos gods could get a better lock on the and take them. If she is solely responsible then so be it but I doubt she would of willingly helped chaos let them take the primarchs.