"The Twins" First Impressions

/ scottjund
/ scottjund

[@user-cn3ue6jm2f]

i feel like a good way to get rid of the “baby holder” problem is to make it so the baby will eventually down them if on the survivor long enough if they aren’t struggling to get it off. kind of like mending.

[@user-cn3ue6jm2f]

@@REMAiNS_TLV seems like an easy effortless fix to me

[@skillet3560]

Or the survivor’s aura is revealed after a certain amount of time

[@user-cn3ue6jm2f]

@@skillet3560 even that feels weak to me.

[@skillet3560]

I mean yes

[@skillet3560]

But I don’t think an ability should be able to down you

[@HellCow420]

Baby Kicking sold me on The Twins

[@zombiefinatic7033]

Best game since Dead Space 2

[@redsquirrel9961]

"you need to have tracking on your baby" Jund for president 2024

[@joeyjointjebaiter1275]

"You need to make sure they dont kick your baby"

[@billyshirley4443]

@@joeyjointjebaiter1275 kick the beh beh

[@thearchoncollector9811]

This is just the beginning of survivors killing the killer.

[@FilthyNobeard]

Big leak here. Next killer has a mechanic where in if you miss your power survivors can pull out a glock and dome you.

[@thearchoncollector9811]

@@FilthyNobeard LMAO 🤣

[@therealnoob4738]

@@FilthyNobeard „picked the wrong house fool“ lmao

[@minaajoku1169]

@@FilthyNobeard the truth is the trial was rigged from the start

[@CopyNinjaJay]

I thought the Legion's mori was the start of them fighting back D: (scary times)

[@zamicedt]

This explanation was really interesting and points out issues I didn't see before from other gameplay videos. To address the 'holding the baby' issue, maybe once Victor is latched on he has a timer. Once this timer expires either Victor is destroyed automatically, or possibly he sacrifices himself to put the survivor into the Deep Wound - survivors can remove him to prevent getting hurt. For the lockers, since Victor cannot open the locker doors perhaps he can walk up to them and hold them shut - again with the timer. If a survivor locker techs to avoid his leap, Victor doesn't get the hit, otherwise Victor can walk up to and immobilise the survivor for a short while, allowing Charlotte to come over. Also, about not being able to see Victor. When Victor is idle Charlotte can see his white aura, and Victor can see Charlotte's white aura. Make this aura permanent; not just if Victor is idle. If a survivor is currently holding the baby, Charlotte can see the aura bouncing around. (This could potentially also replace the timer since Charlotte would recieve ez wall hax, but maybe only if the aura becomes too oppressive?) I agree that successful hits should not be kickable, rewarding good gameplay and punishing bad gameplay. I also agree that Charlotte should also be able to recall Victor; maybe M2 as Charlotte causes Victor to automatically break and then he respawns overtime.

[@IosifStalinsendsyoutoGulag]

Yeah, solid. Either show Victor's or the survivor's aura when he's latched on them, and give them a timer if they are not in chase with you.

[@jakedickson2311]

@@valentinaafk fuelled by the entity

[@DeXobas]

Deathslinger = smoker Plague = boomer Demogorgon = hunter (kinda) Hillbilly = charger (kinda) and now jockey is here too... Bill is having a lot of ptsd

[@Blank-LLC]

How is plague not a spitter?

[@CowInDisguise]

Blight = hunter

[@nathanrivas5252]

Oni=tank

[@Lucas11061]

@@CowInDisguise lol no, dude just runs, demo is more like hunter

[@SGEnjoyer]

underrated comment poor Bill

[@AramesiaToken]

There are lockers everywhere except when you're playing Huntress

[@LazarusGamingandDiscussion]

All I have to say is, it's insane that we made all these guesses and then BHVR completely flipped the script lmao

[@conkerlive101]

Behavioral running bamboozle

[@fond1e]

It happens every Chapter, I swear

[@billyjoelbeans]

What guesses were made?

[@Jagmaster117]

I mean, they did say that the next killer was most likely going to be one from themselves. I forgot what stream but they did drop it on a pass by.

[@Pika-ck7ww]

im now sad that it's not sponge bob

[@Throkers]

This killer has technical flaws rather than core flaws. I think that's a good point for it to be in and why the ptb exists. I can see ways to fix most of the issues pretty easily, hopefully they do.

[@thekamotodragon]

lol they're only technical flaws that should be an easy fix you say? sine they're such easy fixes, i'm now 100% sure that bhvr will fix none of them and the killer will come out as is, as is tradition. :]

[@brofist4675]

@@thekamotodragon yeah, you know how spirit came out and never got any changes from ptb, and how ghostface's power is LITERALLY FUCKING USELESS! They have fixed harder shit before, it's not foreign to them to do good shit

[@rddels]

@@brofist4675 ghostface’s stalk is useless but his power itself is definitely not

[@maxil8988]

@@rddels how is ghostface stalk useless??? if you 99% people it's so good

[@rddels]

@@maxil8988 bro what its so pointless, by the time you’ve 99ed someone you probably couldve downed them anyway with good usage of his power

[@boopbooperson1654]

"They really need to do something about lockers" As a Dwight, I elect a passive perk where we can go in a locker with team mates. ;) ;) ;)

[@frayjais2942]

I think while the baby is on your shoulders, it should have an effect similar to how survivors can move the killer while wiggling on their shoulders. They move left and right randomly. This would make it very difficult to just leave the baby on your shoulders and get chased.

[@imhoenn5710]

This actually isn't a bad idea.

[@troyy99]

They should either have hindered or the thing you said, just like jockey in l4d2

[@randomth1ngs68]

Idea: as long as the baby is on, the survivor has deep wound that is only cured by removing the baby. Combine that with cooldown changes and maybe recalling your child and I think you could have a pretty great killer. Also when the baby is recalled they should just AI it to run over to you so that it doesn’t just teleport. Also that would be terrifying to watch.

[@parfys]

knowing dbd the ai would get stuck and be unusable for the rest of the game lol

[@jamesgiles4517]

I'd add the hindered status instead

[@RYNO2511]

@@jamesgiles4517 I think that's a good idea, pretty much makes it mandatory for them to remove him

[@BP-gm2ww]

deep wound doesn't resolve the problem. As long as you keep running you don't bleed out

[@killer4516]

Not sure if you saw this before but I believe this killer is going to be a slug killer. Injure everyone and spread damage. And then go on baby downing, slugging, killing spree. Also why does the baby not give hindered? Wtf? But ya to help where this playstyle isn't forced, make it where u can get ur baby back easily. Overall, ur changes are logical and if they are put in place this killer can be great.

[@justincruz8050]

They're slug and injured state punish does have cool potential but like Scott said if you land a successful attack as victor you can get kicked, so survivors would just need to stick together

[@killer4516]

@@justincruz8050 True. Hope they fix it.

[@billyjoelbeans]

Free injures, you put the baby in a high spot, maybe near a gen, get killer instinct, and hit them, and go somewhere else with your main killer

[@mckookie2967]

Slugging is dead between WGLF buff and the popularity of unbreakable/soul guard so hope not

[@killer4516]

@@mckookie2967 Even with those perks slugging is still meta and strong. You can't win against any competent team without it. So I wouldn't be too concerned. The only thing better than slugging is tunneling one guy out of the match instantly, but that's no fun.

[@lauraliggins2711]

I think a good idea might be to make her some percentage faster when that baby is not with her so that she can actually do something, and it makes sense cuz she won’t be carrying that extra weight

[@The3dsstuff]

Give her a recall, constant aura reading on the baby in all forms, No kicking on downed survivors ie cheap hits for doing well, and a deep wounds style effect for keeping the baby on that will kill them if they don't attempt to get it off, along with a 5% movement speed buff to catchup to wherever the baby is (basically making her 120% speed temporarily.) This along with allowing the baby to hold a locker shut (a simple standing animation of him with both his arms on the doors) which the survivors can attempt to get out of the locker and have sort of a trapper situation. Yeah i think these would fix her immensely and make her actually a really really really good killer.

[@JakeTreola]

I can't stop laughing at Tapp in the corner

[@ajkcool]

Always watching...

[@holyelixir4580]

I wish you would've talked about the potential unhealthy playstyles of this killer. The killer has no terror radius when controlling Victor and Victor himself has no terror radius which makes hook camping stupidly easy.

[@byr0837]

That's true actually, the no terror radius thing also really sucks when going against survivors at loops with victor - they can infinitely vault strong windows and crouch beneath them. Think that should change.

[@jaysaber9054]

The patch notes said they have some kind of "anti-camping mechanism", but it isn't working as of yet. It'll probably address that.

[@foxiki387]

The anti camping is kind of there, victor can’t be unbound for a decent distance around a hook with a survivor on it, so while you can camp it’s not always consistent

[@mrwoweu]

Also - the killer still depips if they camp hooks since ots distance based - not terror radius based.

[@deathdefying1472]

No matter what “Victor” is creepy

[@Pika-ck7ww]

you mean cute?

[@joeyjointjebaiter1275]

@@Pika-ck7ww both. Its kind of adorable when you keep him on your back and just become his babysitter Then again he's a vicious fucking demon When this dude comes out on PS4 i'll run Steve with just babysitter and keep Victor on my back the entire game

[@RYNO2511]

I just find him hilarious

[@oswald3845]

He's adorablee

[@cherryking9571]

The worst part is that I share my name with the little fuck

[@dr.dripton]

I see them putting a mend like state after release. To stop them from holding the baby man

[@HellCow420]

U can steal the baby?

[@dr.dripton]

@@HellCow420 u can hold em which removes your power, he for some reason can also leave exit gates??? And while your outside the map you can latch on to escaped survivors. So yeah its possible to steal da baby

[@OnyxDarkKnight]

@@dr.dripton You can also steal the baby through the hatch

[@Clown_the_Clown]

Deeps wounds is a trash status effect

[@bophadesknutz7798]

Because they will stop running after getting the Baby?

[@justcallmej.r3088]

Honestly... this sort of killer could be a good starting point for a 2v4 mode

[@zombiefinatic7033]

Honestly if this spaghetti code of a game could handle that, it would be amazing. That would kinda give a better play style if he gave survivors Boil Over movement and kinda made them struggle to move like the Left 4 Dead Jockey has been mentioned and you talk to your friend and lure him over for a down

[@brunosouza3326]

having the baby and the killer attacking and being controlled at the same time would be absolutely broken.

[@cheesebooba]

so the other player only gets to play when the first allows them to?

[@Zeus-sv6wi]

Developers said another game mode will never happen

[@lucaskopke6886]

Zeus not a new mode but a killer that is played by two players. They could make it so the big girl is 110% move speed and then the two players would have to work together

[@lochlynduntz1206]

She feels like when ghostface first released on ptb, really awesome concept and new game aspects added, but it was just so underpowered and not good. The devs listened and fixed him, and I have high hopes they will do the same for the Twins

[@silentaccent]

I think the best way to fix the locker problem is by making the baby latch onto a locker and the survivor on the inside has to do a mend type of thing to get out and teammates can also help.

[@maiwu3187]

Once they fix the baby holding thing, I feel like this killer might be second toughest to play against (nurse being first). I've seen killers herd survivors towards Victor and essentially trap them and they always resulted in a down or a hook. It's also hard to hear exactly where the baby is imo which adds to the appeal of that play. It honestly already feels like playing against 2 killers, so if the switch cool down was shortened I think it might be too OP.

[@mrksjke]

"You need to have tracking on your baby, that's probably one of the most required things, in my opinion". Your reputation with The Parents increased.

[@nicksilva975]

I think now that Victor being a very short killer is in the game. I think the door opens up for Chucky to come into this game.

[@Markness]

You answered your own question/statement at the end there. "Good against rank 20s?", that is all that BHVR cares about when it comes to balance. I don't see any big changes coming.

[@ajkcool]

If it's anything like the Object of Obsession Q&A, if the devs like it, it's fun and balanced no matter what anyone else says...

[@messey4998]

Do you think they should make it like a "pin" from L4D? I was thinking maybe once you are "pinned" by Victor you have to hit 5 skill checks slightly increasing in difficulty and if you don't hit them all within like maybe 20 seconds you go into dying. Also to fix lockers they could just make Victor idk like bite? (lol) the leg of the survivor and it drops them a health state. I feel like these changes would make The Twins feel like a one-two punch character instead of just killer with "x" power.

[@seanoneill9299]

Tracking the baby, something to help against lockers, and being able to recall seem obvious and great changes that shoulda been there. I think when latched they should go into a deep wound state that if they don’t get him off downs them. Even if its only like 5seconds to yeet the baby at least its something

[@nelprincipe]

make the baby hold the locker with the survivor inside it for X seconds.

[@xMondhirsch]

Wouldn't it be still a huge disadvantage for the Killer cause when everyone enters a locker right before the second Hit the Killer always have to walk across the Map to reach that locker?

[@Nilli0n]

@@xMondhirsch if I understand this question right the answer is still, yes you will have to walk to that locker with the survivor inside, but it will punish that survivor by possibly forcing them to stay in the locker until they are grabbed or at least until x amount of seconds are up and the survivor is allowed to exit the locker, and by then at least the main killer is closer to the survivor that they can initiate a chase or even get a hit.

[@SGEnjoyer]

honestly instead of holding it closed, he waits until the survivor leaves before pouncing and putting them into dying, even from healthy. make him similar to a single-locker bear trap. don't actually do that, I'm just shooting an idea out since trapper can basically say GFY, buuut he has to be nearby himself to put that trap down. and be using the (honing?) stone addon to put survivors that free themselves into dying. the trap doesn't sprint itself to a locker and set itself in front of it lmao maybe have Vic do 1 health state instead, with a purple addon for instadown.

[@agentshibe]

I think an easy fix for the survivors not removing Victor would be to put a 30 second long deep wound timer that *only* pauses when you're removing him.

[@SteakOSaurier]

what comes to mind is let the "baby holder" only get medium vaults, i havn't think about that on etoo long but that might be a nice thing. Also how others have suggested: make it so the "baby holder" gets downed over time if he/she doesn't struggle, like mending in some sense. Cheers!

[@zincgoblin7538]

You called it a Jockey, and I say that's a really good fix to the baby holder situation. Just have it where while the survivor is in motion, every so often it takes control of movement or hinders movement and causes them to run around, and yell and reveal themselves. They can't do anything, they can't run properly, they reveal themselves. And the baby does have eyes, it can reveal the survivor and any around it. That's a lot of hinderance and information from one survivor.

[@chocfudgecake1133]

- Charlotte can recall Victor by pressing M2 - Successfully landing a pounce and downing a survivor as Victor removes his vulnerable cooldown - Victor also reveals the aura of the latched survivor while controlling Charlotte - Victor can latch on to a locker to prevent a survivor inside from exiting for a certain amount of time

[@nekotorvic3026]

Apparently the groups of tire piles on Autohaven are basically an infinite against Victor. When he charges he is so slow survivors can literally just go around the tires before you can lunge, and if you lunge you get exposed to being kicked in the face. I feel his attack is just too easy to dodge. Which makes it so you waste way more time trying to line up the lunge. The punishment for failure is huge and the reward for landing is medium at best. If The baby were a bit faster when charging or if the charge were faster i think it'd solve some of the issue...

[@byr0837]

I don't think his attack is too easy to dodge, if you're in the open it's very difficult to dodge. I think there needs to be some sort of rework around tiles though. There's a lot of potential infinites because survivors don't go into chase against victor, so they can infinitely vault windows and then just crouch beneath them, for example. Your example there is definitely a problem too, one thing I thought for fixing it is maybe allowing victor to control the distance of his pounce attack? That way he won't shoot super far over the loop if he tries to use it. Could be like nurse's blinks, the longer you hold the pounce for - the further you go.

[@nekotorvic3026]

From what I have seen and played, the attack is way harder to land than a demogorgon's shred, with much less benefit and much more punishment. If the attack is harder to land then it's easier to dodge. Honestly I've seen sirvivors waste so much of a killers time just wiggling a little. Correct me if I'm wrong but it doesn't seem nearly as hard to wiggle to dodge his attack as it is to dodge a huntress, billy or demogorgon... it may be because of just how much he slows down when charging. I do like your idea of thepounce working like nurses blinks. That may solve it.

[@byr0837]

@@nekotorvic3026 I only played briefly with him, but I just played it like huntress and didn't try to flick too much and it seemed to work okay. It's quite hard to get through windows and over pallets though.

[@chocfudgecake1133]

In short, they should make: - Charlotte can recall Victor by pressing M2 - Successfully landing a pounce as Victor removes his vulnerable cooldown - Victor also reveals the aura of the latched survivor - Victor can latch on to a locker to block the survivor inside for a certain amount of time.

[@FarkovEFT]

A few changes I'd make to the killers kit is: Victor should be able to attack survivors in lockers Victor should down a survivor if he is latched on for long enough (won't happen in chase) Victor should be able to jump onto downed survivors to stop them from being able to recover since almost every time you down someone as Victor they get picked up before you can get to them There needs to be some kind of tracking for whichever survivor victor is on since you latch on as victor but can rarely find them as Charlotte I think Victor should be able to do a short lunge instead of being able to only do a fully charged lunge and I think victor should be able to get on top of objects without dying unless you switch back to charlotte

[@ryfry4205]

Agree with everything except getting on top of objects. This would be really funny bc you can just parkour around the map as a baby but not a needed/useful feature

[@Rhyza13]

For lockers, I feel Victor should be able to block it, trapping a survivor inside. The survivor would then need to go through a break out phase, same as if they were trying to get Victor off their back. It adds risk to locker plays, and gives Charlotte time to get there.

[@jpegexe4015]

why not give them something similar to a pig trap timer that will down them if they dont get the baby off

[@maxil8988]

Because then it becomes old legion

[@imhoenn5710]

Just add the hindered status after long enough with him on, and give it tracking and it's pretty solved

[@nocturnalpie]

@@maxil8988 not if they apply the same things as they did to Legion. It's fine to not have the baby if you're actively chasing the one who has it on them but if you're being denied your power cause the survivor with the baby went and hid in a corner then yeah they should get downed for not getting the baby off of them.

[@maxil8988]

@@nocturnalpie But, if you base it on chase, the killer could just look down to not trigger chase and then it's old legion all over again.

[@nocturnalpie]

@@maxil8988 Well I never said base it off of chase, I said do the same as they did with Legion, which was make the Mend timer not go down while the survivor was sprinting/mending. In this case it can just be sprinting since I believe they can do both at once.

[@Sutefusama]

"It's like 5 or 6 seconds it feels like [...] it should be like a 2 or 3 seconds cooldown" --> Watching the replay video : It actually takes 3 seconds, it just feels like it's more but it's not.

[@HappilyMundane]

So what I was thinking, there definitely needs to be more incentive for Victor to be removed from a healthy survivor like you said. I thought a deepwounds-style effect that ticks down even whilst running (but not in chase) would be decent. That or you can recall victor as you said after a certain amount of time. Tracking is also really needed, again as you said, because it makes the issue of getting your power that much worse if the survivors do decide to just screw you over and not remove him. Or survivors can't pull down pallets and vault windows, making them only able to run in a straight line away from you whilst he's on their head. Lockers I agree with completely. I also feel like it is ridiculous that you can't pick Victor back up even when you are standing next to him as Charlotte. I don't know if it's intentional, but after hooking a survivor you can't drop or teleport to victor for a short while afterwards and it makes them feel very clunky. So many of the addons are entirely dependant on the survivor crushing victor, with nothing to do with you, and I find them to be extremely weak. The best addons in my opinion seem to be the brown addon to reduce his lunge charge and the green addon which increases his speed. I think the fact you need to manually jump over pallets and through windows as victor is kind of ridiculous, give him the ability to just jump through and over them with spacebar, maybe slower than a regular vault so it incentivises learning to manually jump through them. Finally regarding the perks, this is the bit where I disagree with Scott, I don't think they are fun or interesting, I think they are once again abysmally weak. Especially the coup de grace. I've seen a lot of people saying how strong it is and I'm like "what? How?" By losing all five generators, you get five lunge attacks, hit or miss, where you lunge a little bit further... Amazing. It is worse than Fire Up, because at least that has a constant effect. I feel it should be changed to something along the lines of "for every generator completed, gain an additional 10%/12.5%/15% to your lunge distance for the rest of the game". The only decent perk is the one where when you kick a generator, other generators also start regressing. That perk pairs exceptionally well with surveillance, but is still overshadowed by the new undying/ruin/tinkerers combo. And what point is there to Hoarder except for ruining a poor Ace's day. Most survivors simply bring their own items to every trial and don't even bother with opening chests save for with challenges. Behaviour finally had a good idea but out of fear of making something strong they just watered every thing down and gave us a soggy mess of what could have been. He seemed fun at first, but my fun will quickly die out when I'm unable to use my power for 80% of my games and lose every single time as an m1 killer. There were a lot of bugs in this ptb as well, like mori's continuing the animation is you stop partway but not actually killing the survivor and so on

[@ajtp1349]

So basically- New power- Stops survivors from doing anything but running and getting Belial off their back. They gain the hindered, oblivious, and broken status effects. After 30 seconds of not trying to get the baby off, the survivor goes down

[@The3dsstuff]

they don't get hindered.

[@ajtp1349]

@@The3dsstuff this is the suggested fix.

[@ajtp1349]

@@justmonika2345 yeah tweaking based on how it will play out is the way to go. Things can sound good on paper but turn out worse

[@tobydaniels461]

I think having Victor (on your shoulders) should apply the hindered status effect, meaning there is a reason to remove him in the chase.

[@tobydaniels461]

@@justmonika2345 I just don’t think that would be fun for the survivors whatsoever, I think the hindered effect could also be too much, it would have to be relatively low, so not Clown level of slow down.

[@TheCreepypastaGamer64]

Fix ideas: -Give us ability to recall Victor (perhaps 5 seconds after switching back to Charlotte?) -Victor being able to keep lockers shut, perhaps by lunging onto them and then either another survivor has to take him off or he'll lose grip after a short while (alternatively have the person in the locker suffer hard skill checks and reveal location to Charlotte when they succeed in escaping with one). -Reduce cooldown for switching killers -Let Victor help track the survivor he's attached to If I'm missing anything or any of these are not to liking, do let me know :) might be nice to mass store ideas here

[@StinkyPoopyMcFartFace]

It’s weird they’d add that the baby prevents escape from the match yet they can literally wait at the gate because when you hit them they’ll just fall outside and leave.

[@minu2910]

That has to be an oversight. There is absolutely no way for you to stop a survivor from escaping with this unless it stops them at the gate.

[@StinkyPoopyMcFartFace]

@@minu2910 Yeah this killer just feels really weird, I really hope they change some things about them. Like as Scott said the whole locker thing completely denying the power is just really lame.

[@Pichudiamond3]

@@minu2910 I managed to get 1 kill that way because I grabbed someone at the gate with like 5 seconds left in EGC, but other than that it’s totally useless, hope that somehow gets changed. Maybe they can’t enter the exit area behind the gate with the baby on them or something

[@potatoweaver4116]

Honestly feel like that whole thing is just so the baby doesn't escape with the survivors. I'm not sure if it really was suppose to have an impact on game play or if BHVR just didn't want to deal with what would happen if a survivor left with the baby.

[@alexfialon1]

@@minu2910 if you hit them parallel to the gate you can grab them before they escape

[@Poggy]

Lockers: Baby holds the locker shut for like you said, 10-15 seconds. Another survivor during that time can force the locker open by accepting the baby on their shoulders, putting them in the injured state if they are healthy., and the other survivor is now freed.

[@fibijean4817]

Can survivors drop pallets or vault windows while Victor is on their shoulders? Because if not, the solution seems fairly simple - once Victor is latched onto someone, chase that person and down them with Charlotte and then you get Victor back. If they can't vault or drop pallets, they're not going to be able to run away for long. And if they can, changing that is probably the easiest way for the developers to fix the issue.

[@halftimex25]

Maybe victor should be able to lock the lockers somehow like putting a stick in the handle bars that takes a moment for the survivor to break out of. Trading a hit for mabey 5 seconds to give the killer time to get there could make it more useful

[@lukedupantier2510]

maybe the baby could cling themselves onto the locker and prevent the survivor from getting out for a bit

[@arlantis]

Yea that’s a really great idea lol have the baby try to hold the locker closed and the survivor has to attempt to escape like when caught in a bear trap. Have it luck based so luck gets another excuse to be used haha

[@ckiimyirhnski1056]

That's actually a pretty good idea. OR make it so that the baby can camp the locker in such a way that if the survivor gets out of it the baby will automatically attack again (i.e. -1 health state) while the killer player controls Charlotte. The baby can still be killed by other survivors or Head On when in this "locker camping mode"

[@HappilyMundane]

@@arlantis I like this

[@Geekstinkbreath123]

@@ckiimyirhnski1056 Just put the baby on overwatch

[@smokenojoke8182]

Holding the locker shut and allowing survivor a wiggle bar is a great idea.

[@serioustable8659]

Would also be nice if he can go on top of obstacles, I feel like that would make him more fun and you could surprise people from different angles. They could make it to where he only dies if you leave him on top of stuff but doesn't die as long as you're still in control

[@wyler_.]

MARK MY WORDS the twins are gonna have the best hex defense or defense against anything tbh devour hope and this killer will be a powerful combo you can hide the baby near a hook and walk away the baby has no terror radius and will be able to counter bt need to stay near a gen have you or the baby guard it

[@joelforeman1187]

I think if the survivor aura was revealed while the baby was on them, combined with oblivious would give a lot of incentive to take the baby off. And if the baby stayed on them when they get downed for a few seconds to stop getting knocked out of exit gates, the killer would be in a stronger position. You might be able to use the locker weakness to your advantage with Iron Maiden or something, but the switching should definitely be faster. I'm not sure if this has been mentioned anywhere, but the baby idle animation could be the same controlled or not, so you can stand still to mindgame lockers like the spirit can to mindgame pallets.

[@theoverseer393]

A solid fix would be to force the survivors with a timer, OR, the baby is always visible to the killer Killing the baby should give some sort of visibility penalty, or the main killer should get a movement speed buff

[@LiunUK]

these are my ideas first i would make it so victor can pull survivors out of lockers and ride them as if he had just lunged on them regardless of if they were injured or not that way the lockers are still sort of a counter as it prevents him from being able to down injured survivors. maybe make one of his ultra-rare addons instadown survivors out of lockers seeing as that is his main weakness. second i would make it so there was a deep wound like effect for when he is riding a survivor so that they have a reason to remove him as soon as they can instead of kidnapping him all match. how i would programme it to work would be .survivor has 20 seconds to remove victor before being put into the dying state .timer is paused when being chased by charlotte or when attempting to remove him .canceling the removal action will deduct time equal to the time spent trying to remove him (so if you start the removal action immediately and spend 6 seconds trying to remove him but you cancel it for whatever reason 6 seconds will be deducted from the timer giving you 12 seconds left to attempt to remove him this way the max amount of time a survivor can kidnap victor will be less than 30 seconds if they started the removal action with 1 second to spare.)

[@BStar870]

Make Victor act like the Trapper's Traps. If he pounces on a survivor, they're stuck in place, like in the trailer where he's pinned David to the ground. Then, when you've switched back to Charlotte, you get a permanent indicator telling you where they are as long as Victor is on them (aka, the Baby Tracking). Of course, make it so they can still knock him off. When you place him in a location to be the little radar, maybe they can give him a proximity feature, like the crows have, but instead of cawing and alerting, he'll automatically latch onto the Survivor and notify you where they are. They can't move, you're running in as Charlotte, other survivors need to hurry and help their buddy before you get there and M1 their butts.

[@thenewgamer64]

An idea for Victor and Lockers, if they can't have him open lockers, then he latches onto a locker but applies a Deep Wound type of Idea. He'll rage against the locker (maybe it shakes?) but that'll count as Latching into a body (maybe for 10-15 seconds) so they can't leave the locker until he despawns (counts as removing him). it'll trap them in lockers but make it a risky play

[@IvanHernandez-ug7pb]

Do you think doing a basement build where you leave the baby in a corner of shack when you have someone hooked in the basement would work well? You can use the baby to track survivors that enter the shack and then changing to the baby to defend the basement. In the meantime someone tries to rescue, you can use the normal killer to apply more pressure

[@takubear88]

I totally get why the baby has so many drawbacks, since it's so fast and can jump over things. But yeah, lockers. Very interesting they made a killer that can actually jump though, hope we get to see that return in one way or another way in the future.

[@lred1383]

Concept: a winged killer (mothman? lol) that can rise up into the air and attack from above. Needs careful balancing for sure, but would definitely be a unique and cool concept.

[@mr.purplet-rex2774]

@@lred1383 they won't make a flying killer due to all the indoor maps

[@lred1383]

@@mr.purplet-rex2774 I still can't think of a map where the ability to hover over a loop wouldn't be useful

[@Foeisudhxj]

one idea that i had that might be kind of broken is maybe if whenever victor is latched onto a survivor, and you are within a certain range (maybe like 16 meters) with victor and the survivor, you can press a button of some sort to make charlotte tell victor to scratch the survivor. whenever you do this it slows them down like cloud gas except not as dramatically and also could possibly be like doctors shock where they scream and they can't interact with anything for a few seconds. They should also make it so that you can see the aura of the survivor when victor is latched onto them and they are far away.

[@thenewgamer64]

an odd thing about Victor now really is that the Twins has an odd flexibility for their power because they are considered 2 killers with collision as well as Victor's tracking (unless you crouch around him like Pyramid Head's trail). either you use him for the intended power of find a surv and attack, which leads to the problems above, but can also be used for future planning or track, such as using Discordance and finding survivors at a gen, deciding whther to pounce or not and use Victor to sneak ahead of time to block a pallet or loopable area, Charolette comes in and gets a few free hits. Victor himself is an added obstacle for Survivors by either wasting their time to kick him and reveal location or by denying some routes the locker thing tho, that's trash

[@RazzleTheRed1]

Yeah, add a way to recall Victor whenever you want, and add Killer instinct to the person Victor is latched onto seems like a couple basic changes that he needs, but overall I'm happy with such a unique killer being added to the game

[@notbrad4873]

The main problem with the Oppression perk is you cannot regress engines that are not started or being repaired. Typically if a survivor abandons a gen it's because you are chasing them.

[@haasztamas]

I'd kinda like an addition to the main killer like if the baby is out and is latched onto somebody, the main killer gets a speed boost if they are running in the direction of that survivor. Or even just when the baby is idle and you are running in their direction. Just some kind of help to reduce the absolutely crazy amounts of downtime this killer has.

[@SuperGreenSmartie]

I think it might help to either give the Twins the option to disengage from a grabbed survivor, and/or provide the same benefit of Killer Instinct whether the baby is in sentry mode or latched onto someone.

[@Tony-zr8gm]

my idea for buffing the twins is simple make it so that when charlotte unbinds victor she has another ability such as the ability to teleport to victor like she does in the reveal trailer then you have the option to either look for survivors or rebind with victor. than another thing they could do is when victor is latched on to someone he could do one or both of two things either reveal the aura of the survivor constantly or give the survivors a timer that when it hits zero victor starts to tantrum and slashes at the survivors face causing them to fall down into the dying state also a second part of this could be every few seconds while victor is on a survivors back who is not trying to remove him he could randomly claw at the survivors face casing them to scream and reveal their location (like doctor) then for a short time they can vault or pull down pallets

[@tcarra45]

For the Locker idea i like the concept of maybe either latching to the locker so the survivor either chooses to get locked in the locker to await your arrival or takes the hit from the baby but rather than going down if injured gets latched again and makes a scream with a visual cue like doctors madness to give you an idea of where they are going that way locker still gives players a chance to avoid being downed by the baby but doesnt negate the power entirely or maybe locking it for 5 secs so you atleast have some time to move there?

[@CoffeeZombi-ATL1]

I feel like for this killer I would use Victor more as an information tool, hide him in dark corners or hard to reach places to get info for entire areas, have him hide near one exit gate so I can watch the other without worry, Or place him near a hook so I know when they go for a save, you could even use him to just herd a survivor towards yourself and spring a trap! There are so many cases where you can get pure info and utility from him. In my mind using Victor as an attack ability over a utility might be a mistake. Of course, you would still use him to attack from time to time but in that accept he seems kind of weak without anti-heal builds or slug builds.

[@foldandfray4859]

Suggestions: Victor should be able to open lockers and either jump on your head, forcing you out, or downing you immediately, depending on your health state. If you're in the exit gate with Victor he should growl loudly to warn you not to go further. Going too far in will cause him to bite your neck, doing a short mori like animation that will kill you immediately, similar to The Pig's bear traps. Victor should work like Legion's deep wound in the sense that you will be downed if you wear him for too long outside of Charlotte's terror radius. I don't particularly mind if it doesn't notify the killer where the person it's latched to is. Victor is loud and you should remember where they were when you latched on. Attaching Victor from too far away is a risk. And of course the survivors location will be revealed if they walk close to other survivors. The reason I feel it would be unfair to have their location revealed is that there is no chance that even the most experienced survivor will be able to escape if Charlotte decides to commit to them. I don't believe that it's important to be able to come back to Charlotte quickly. She's not meant to seem like a teleporting killer.

[@CrimsonHeart3]

I feel the main problems with this killer are = 1. Victor needs to be able to attack much quicker, that alone would make the killer smoother - this charge thing is too easy to dodge. 2. When victor attacks someone the person affected should have their aura revealed for 15secs - as it stands it's easy to lose track of them, in which case he only becomes a much weaker legion? he moves fast and injures someone .. that's legion but with just one person. (Optional) - You have the option too let the main killer move towards victors location automatically - this way you can control victor, attack and then quickly recover with an M1 since you don't have to cover the distance. As an EXTRA optional thing, the killer moves towards victors location AND also M1's automatically if a survivor gets near her - creating potential anti loop strategies. I find it very annoying that charlotte just stands there while a survivor does a gen in her face, kind of like laughing at her just bothers me - she should react in some way. She needs buffs imo, as it stands her full power is very limited in effectiveness compared to so many other killers - as for the locker thing, it won't be so much of an issue if victor just attacks much quicker - as it stands it's so easy to dodge that survivors have plenty of time to head towards a locker.

[@TheJGSkull]

Don't know why they didn't have bebe tracked while on survivor either was really suprised For lockers: Have bebe going inside and attaching to them would be the equivalent of grabbing them/power usage For Cradle Snatching: Make bebe returnable, trackable, and make it to where he's like a leach/parasite by either having him cause exhaustion while on the survivor, taking away a perk benefit or "depleting" the survivor for a health state (like pig's trap, but not insta-death)

[@DXSavior]

What if Victor when grabbed had a pig trap adjacent timer, where if you are not in chase, you have a timer that goes off for say 60 seconds, and if you do not remove Victor, you go down and Victor is just set to stand on top of the survivor. That way it proves pressure that requires the survivor to remove it and give the killer the power back.

[@imhoenn5710]

Needs to be far shorter than 60 seconds out of chase. There's no rng element, there's no going across the map to a box to get it off. AND it denies Charlotte her power while he's on you. I say 15-20 seconds while not in chase, max.

[@alexfialon1]

For the locker thing, I think victor should be able to latch onto the locker to hold it shut and the survivor has to struggle out of the locker before the killer can get there.

[@ojda405]

Imagine if Victor could hold the locker shut(trapping the survivor) for a few seconds even after switching back to Charlotte. But not enough time for Charlotte to grab them out of the locker, unless of course she is already very close.

[@VT_Pancakes]

What if they made it to where if you kick the baby, it causes the main killer to enrage very briefly to catch back up to go for a down on the person the baby hits. And for the baby itself, maybe another penalty to where the longer the baby is on the survivor, the more debuffed they become. (Example: The hindered effect gets worse, slowing you down more and more up to a certain capped % which would be terrible enough to where looping would not be viable much, and it will also give you pings as to where this survivor is so that way they cant hide with the baby.) I think this would be a decent way to encourage survivors to give you back the power, without exactly removing the mechanic of survivors getting them off.

[@pimpsterpidgeon4502]

For the locker issue, the lazy idea I have is have victor press the locker interact button, there is no animation but the survivor does the jumping fast out of locker animation forcing the survivor out. It would be cool if Victor could charge his power during this time, interact to force survivor out, then hit them. I would prefer an animation obviously but this would be a good super easy quick fix. for the baby holder, u would suggest the hindered status effect, having a 20 pound baby would slow anyone down and also you can see victors aura (cuz the heartbeat would be obnoxious) so the survivor cannot just hide, they can still hold hostage but not as easily.

[@jamesgarter9340]

The locker issue is a so fucking boring

[@speedysion1004]

To fix the locker issue you could allow Victor to hold the locker shut for a set amount of time allowing Charlotte to get closer to either get a grab or a hit

[@abefaerber7994]

My suggestion for lockers is, if the baby is idling in front of a locker, any survivor that jumps out of that locker gets immediately latched onto, or downed if they're already injured.

[@atomiccpu3238]

In my opinion they should reduce the cool down of swapping back and forth, Make it so your able to recall The baby but when you do manually recall him Male the cool down longer so you can’t essentially recall the baby and throw him out quickly afterwards

[@joeyjointjebaiter1275]

I was so disappointed that they were gonna make the second killer idle when you arent playing them. I wanted to have the second one follow survivors around and chase them in a straight line, very slowly, get stunned longer, have a longer attack cooldown, everything. I wanted to have additional pressure on survivors without having two killers at work all at once, but enough to sort of pressure people off gens. You could also have it as an option to keep the second killer idle so that you spawn back where you where, or move the killer to where you first went idle and then take control of them once they're back.

[@yosukehanamura9615]

They should make incapacitation like the pig traps, you can’t move any further than halfway, maybe the entity comes up or the baby holds you back but that would require animation

[@Spexckz]

The baby can open the locker and jump back on the survivor making the survivor have to struggle him off is probably a good suggestion

[@potatoweaver4116]

You can block pallets with the main killer while chasing with the baby, that's kind of neat. You can also sort of do a one two punch like Deathslinger.

[@CalebCosner]

maybe if a survivor has him on their back, gen progress gets slowed down for everyone else. kind of like freddy's nightmare or thanataphobia. It gives the other survivors an incentive to get him off but on the flipside if they try to get him off the main twin can come and see all the heartbeats of the survivors and start slugging. or have it so you need another survivor to take Victor off

[@xpljesus]

Hey Scott, was thinking about the whole exit gate thing and came up with this idea, which would both help that and the killer as a whole - what if incapacitated survivors could simply be grabbed when in range, say how Myers kills you with tombstone. Also you should be able to kill victor off at will IMO. I think these two changes would sort all of the major issues bar lockers. Also not sure how I feel about victor not being able to see scratches. I got absolutely fucked by iron will earlier, even with the blood - I’d honestly consider running stridor on this guy (the way stridor works, it should theoretically actually affect victor). I don’t think this killer is as bad as overall consensus though, and definitely see a lot of potential

[@adrianmalinowski1073]

Survivors with Victor shouldn't be able to interact with anything and should be hindered - boom, fixed. It would also be cool feature to add ability to call sister to Victor's current location. No, no teleport, you just use button, scream that everyone on the map has the location revealed and sister starts slowly walking towards the location, maybe 30% speed?

[@RaffoPhantom]

Regarding keeping the baby on you the whole match: What about giving it a timer-like mechanic where it will down you after a certain amount of time if you're not getting chased and you won't remove him from your back. Baseline like 30 seconds but you can also have add-ons that lower this time. Survivors should not see the timer to not be able to calculate when it will end.

[@Liam-mv9zi]

This killer really has the potential to be a top tier killer I feel, they just need to fix the really hard counters for them. This killer has the potential to maybe be even more threatening than Spirit I think, because their ability has them catching up to survivors just as quickly as Spirit would, and if a player gets really good with jumping over pallets or windows and hitting survivors through them, then there's almost no way to avoid getting hit. And then their camping ability is amazing too, since having Victor near a hook is like having a Hag trap that doesn't even have to be triggered to threaten survivors. Only downside is that you might have to travel further distances to hook people, but I feel that the time you save in chases outweighs that. Plus, positioning yourself well could help a lot too.

[@xaudianx8882]

Not to mention, that if the survivor you latch on to is your terror radius (32m) or further away, they can rip victor off of them before you can even get to them.

[@arlantis]

He’s completely right about the exit gate thing. Can’t believe they didn’t think that through LOL

[@lucaskopke6886]

I feel like they should make it like a pig trap where they have to remove the baby or else you go down or maby make it so Charlotte can spawn many victors or something or just give her the ability to call him back.

[@isosteenkamp4387]

I feel like they should make it that when the baby is on your shoulders, if a generator gets completed if it has been on your shoulder for like 15+ seconds, you get downed.

[@mtsoccerman]

An idea for the locker issue: maybe Victor could lock the lockers for a certain amount of time, so you can switch back to the main killer and grab them out of the locker while still locked in.

[@TheTimeLord725]

Idea for the locker issue: If a survivor goes into a locker and you are in baby form, lunge at the locker to bang on it preventing the survivor from leaving it. You can return to it with the normal killer and open it with them inside.

[@SenkoVT]

btw u can also injure them first and then use ur power so the baby doesnt jump on their shoulder, a strategic body block via swf would be hard to deal with though potentual bloodwarden plays with the baby though :D

[@kingbehave8227]

I wish the baby was AI. I always wanted a killer like a Hunter with a wolf that moves on its own and could help you out a little.

[@Lucas11061]

Man I love wolves, I'd main your killer for sure, lol

[@Klausinator451]

Since we have a Samurai, a Bounty Hunter, a Priestess, I was thinking they'd probably add a viking killer (maybe a Draugr with a spectral wolf that'd follow survivors but not hurt them so it's not just outright better than the twins) or a Knight eventually.

[@Noname72105]

Having the baby either auto-down a healthy surv after a timer or pathfind back to Charlotte would be a potentially way to do it. Or maybe instead of having to wiggle him off you, the only way to get him off is to waste a pallet on him. Idk.

[@Maxshark999]

easy fix for victor is being able to manually recall him, only allowing you to run while hes latched on and him acting like a jockey from l4d2 making it harder to move, or after a certain amount of time he comes back automatically.

[@ianmaxfield549]

The fact that the incapacitation doesn't work at all blows my mind lol. Literally the first thing i thought just reading that part of the ability was that it sounded like it wasn't going to work properly and sure enough it doesnt.

[@shmshare3868]

Hey cool pfp ;)

[@ianmaxfield549]

@@shmshare3868 ayee lmao

[@rarepepe6197]

Maybe they could make the incapacitated status effect linger for 5 - 10 seconds after Viktor has been removed.

[@REDI2UM]

They should add a secondary power so when you have victor with you, he can immediately pounce out of you onto the back of a survivor. Hitting or missing regardless, should put you into a short stun

[@ian3166]

Devs have understood the locker and power kidnapping problem and will be fixing it before live

[@deliriouszora]

Baby should definitely down people that were latched on for a while. Lockers is just a natural counter for most if not all killers powers. Victor isn't supposed to be your only thing you use, so of course he shouldn't punish people that use lockers. But even then, if you put victor near that locker, but in a hidden place, and go to Charlotte. where will they go without them being revealed and possibly downed. Victor should definitely have a recall mechanic idk how they just let that slide right before putting into the PTB. In most games people aren't going to think about ducking victor but if they do, that's just good counter play so it doesn't feel like the killer can get easy hits, which killers shouldn't. And it isn't like Huntress doesn't have a similar counter like that and people still play her.