The Ultimate Grinder Showdown Finale (Episode #6)

[@MangoTheRetriever]

The series we need but can't afford. Thank you, James!

[@flashcraft8287]

@EdvardasLPI, that's funny. :D

[@b.peppercorn739]

Feel for you and sorry you can not afford them

[@mcflippyflaps219]

I don't go to starbucks but I imagine how much coffee would cost me for a year and even if I buy very expensive equipment, I'd save money and time after just a few years. Taste is leaps and bounds beyond anything you can get from starbucks. The equipment will last a very long time saving even more money.

[@astrovlog]

I will never be able to buy any of these grinders but I learned a lot from the series and that’s the importan part. Thanks for doing it and I’ll keep enjoying my comandante 🙌

[@Figgboii]

😂😂Well put

[@Anarchsis]

Agree, my Bezerra BB005 manual is good for me.

[@JohnKruse]

Frankly, after seeing the prices, I am checking out. I bought a used Super Jolly for 250 euros a couple of years ago and it will likely see me to my grave. I'd have to be lighting cigars with 50s to ever care about these machines.

[@gregfitch8937]

Fantastic series, thanks for the info. I will stick with my Breville pro grinder for the time being, but at least if I win the lotto I know what to go for.

[@LasstUnsSpielen]

The Comandante is probably the best tasting and most pleasant to use grinder within a much higher price range. I wished they would produce a motor for this.

[@francescovultaggio2540]

Me while drinking a Nespresso: "Yes, indeed. Unimodal flat burs have some drawbacks"

[@olwethusilo7155]

😂😂😂

[@giveitthebeans1931]

Me using 4 a dollar garage sale espresso machine from the 80s: “Having good texture is super important” 🤣

[@ianeverett10]

Dying 🤣🤣🤣

[@henkjanssen1252]

And then you realise you chose the tomato soup button on the machine (oops).

[@mikeyoung9810]

I enjoy listening to him but he's in this other coffee world far removed from my Mr coffee that, at least to me, borders on a level of addiction to taste? Or something almost OCD-like reaching for some kind of impossible perfection or just a need to be elite. (or maybe just business to sell grinders). But I'll stay subscribed and hope for something I can relate to.

[@serialdad33]

thanks James for taking us on this exceptional journey into the world of coffee grinding. I realized that your experience and talent lets you ZOOM IN into nuances and details which average users probably never experience. (maybe in a guided barista course) so thanks for doing all this great work and presentation which was offered for free to the audience. ps. I loved that you integrated the Niche as a comparison, this really made the grinder showdown complete. (and yes, a 6 on the scale just shows the extreme ZOOM into details of this comparison)

[@nedboulter9187]

The fact that the Niche made it into this video made me really happy :D :D. It's like a cameo at this point!!

[@eliallen8557]

A year ago I was measuring my preground coffee in scoops when a friend lent me their hand-me-down pourover setup and sent me to your channel. I got a Commandante C40 for Christmas, bought a Bialetti Brikka (

[@Archamitect]

This is such a fun channel to watch for many reasons & this coffee grinder series is one of those reasons, because it embodies the best attributes of our tech based economy from passionate Patreon backers enabling passionate creators to make unique content and share ideas to entertain & inform everyone... An expression that comes to mind is "you're firing on all cylinders (James)" I mean, it's rare to have a creator consistently say "and now I want to hear from you down in the comments" I say cheers to that!

[@chrish.4067]

Fun to watch and somehow I'm still really happy with my Specialita/Alexia setup. Thanks for the wrap up James where you talk about diminishing returns. Every hobby has that, guitars, firearms, bicycles, even gardening. I always say if you can't do whatever hobby well with an above average tool, like a $2000 guitar, that the $10,000 won't help you be better. It only gives you more satisfaction of ownership.

[@peterbrooks562]

James. Than Thank you for your videos this week. A solid week in front of the camera. Your knowledge is impressive. Even if we all can't afford one of these grinders, it's great that you can present these machines and their talented engineers to us coffee slupers who normally wouldn't see them on our budgets. You once said don't nerd out to much and enjoy coffee moment, but you are bringing both. Thank you also for helping us forget the pandemic. Even in Australia. Thanks

[@Cash0991]

It's a good thing this video exists because I have all of these grinders in my shopping cart and was ready to do my own testing.

[@iwouldpayattention]

Such good tests! Devastated that you didn’t test the SSP unimodal burrs for the chronically under-reviewed P-64.. EVEN IN THE FILTER TEST! This is particularly confusing considering you described most of the other grinders here as unimodal in style. Desperately wanted to see how well it’s 64mm burrs could compete with the larger offerings

[@Sonus1002]

Absolutely, I would even say this makes it an unfair comparison (at least it‘s invalid if you focus on filter coffee/light roast espresso and consider the P64).

[@jameshoffmann]

It was a difficult decision. I wanted to include the HU burrs because I think they make a good point of comparison. I felt that if I started swapping burrs then I should pick up a variety of burrs from other manufacturers too and then where did it end? I'll accept it was a flawed decision though, but I felt the best I could make as a singular choice. At some point we'll probably divorce burr reviews from grinder reviews and that would be a good thing!

[@iwouldpayattention]

@@Sonus1002 I’d imagine many (if not most) customers considering these grinders would be more interested in light roast too

[@iwouldpayattention]

@@jameshoffmann Yes, that divorce would be a good thing. Grinder reviews for ease-of-use, alignment etc. and burr reviews for distribution given perfect alignment. I thank you for the usability review you gave but I can’t help but think if you had to choose one, (given this particular lineup), the unimodals were the way to go. If at some point you manage to review some well aligned 64mm unimodals we'll have a complete review. Also. I liked your equal extraction test. It would be interesting to see how far you could push each grinders extraction before running into astringency etc.

[@Tubenstein]

That's series we needed but couldn't afford. Great work and thank you very much for whole week of informative and entertaining videos!

[@nemoorellc]

Perspective on cost. For avid espresso drinkers, $3500 broken into 10 years of daily use and 4 espressos per day is $0.25 per use. Throw in $2500 for an espresso machine and $0.4 for the coffee (18g per dose at $10/lb), you can have a shot of top tier espresso for $0.90/shot, or about the same price as K-cup drip or McDonalds drip or 1/2 the price of a cafe espresso. As a bonus...lower carbon footprint than those alternatives as well. You get the best coffee experience for the least cost and you save the world.

[@davidnelson6915]

I appreciate that Hoffman often does blind taste tests to add a scientific element to these reviews. I also appreciate that in this review, he does not use a blind test, but incorporates his other experiences with these grinders into the review process. Knowing when to pursue one method or the other is a good skill to have.

[@yoshireincarnate1649]

as a pointer. one mildly useful bit of info at 18:47 would have been to see a frequency response graph for each grinder. the flatter it is, the closer it would be to 'white noise', and you would be able to see where the peaks are: ie 2kHz peak for the ek-43s. the lower frequency the peak would suggest a much less harsh sound, ie more of a rumbling than a scratchy whirring. wouldn't really have expected you to have gone to these lengths but if you need help in the future for anything like this i would be willing to help out. really enjoyed this series too. the eg-1in black is now my holy grail grinder, maybe if i win the lottery 👍

[@repprezent6593]

Hey James, Just an editing note for us normies- I know you’ve been working with these grinders for months, but as someone only introduced to each of these once and for the first time this week, it would have been helpful if you has flashed an image of the grinder you were speaking about (for example, next to each chart or above each cupping bowl) rather than exclusively using the alpha-numeric signifier! Not sure if others faced this problem, but I’m a visual learner and at certain points I gave up trying to figure out which one you were talking about. Just a thought! Maybe helpful for future comparison videos! Thanks again for your thorough reviews! Amazing work as usual!

[@bonezed]

^^ this ^^ I had to pause and switch videos a number of times to follow along

[@mrtwills]

Edit is a 6/10, that might sound harsh but keep in mind these number mean nothing.

[@michalgrabski9969]

It seems nothing much have changed. For the Cafe is still Mahlkonig (retail grinding and pour overs) and Weber (single shot expensive coffees for drip and espresso). Its just somebody else wanted to make something better but invented few more useless grinders - too expensive for home use and useless for Cafe :) But its always nice that somebody else is doing this reviews for us and we don't have too spend thousands of Euros to realise we made a bad choice. Thank you James Hoffman for doing this and thank you the patreons for making it possible. We are greatfull.

[@dannywelbeck8800]

Me rethinking life after identifying niche zero as a grinder to save up for

[@jermaindrake7495]

Haha me too 😢

[@johnmalin4933]

I wonder whether James could really distinguish these grinders in a blind test (as the results seem fairly close together and differences subtle).

[@jameshoffmann]

It's a very good question. From my own experience blind testing stuff, I would say yes but you know... Dunning Kruger and all that.

[@dodaexploda]

I don't think so. He talks about how he's poking the tiny differences between high end coffee. In the ratings they all seem to be very close also. If he still has them doing a blind taste test might be good for a laugh just to demonstrate how close they are.

[@sebaba001]

@@jameshoffmann Haha this ain't no instant coffee difference 😈

[@gubx42]

@@jameshoffmann Considering your recognized expertise, you obviously passed mount stupid. If we follow the idea behind the Dunning Kruger effect, you are more likely to underestimate yourself.

[@ceecmb]

Got myself a used mazzer mini over 7 years ago for $200 and have been super happy with the quality of grind every single day since then.

[@giveitthebeans1931]

To me this feels a lot like backpacking equipment. I’ve been looking at new tents recently where the difference of 100g or so can be $200 or more! When you apply that to all the equipment you can save a kilogram but is it really worth the extra $1000? Like with all hobbies one needs to think about how much it’s worth to them and if that extra performance will even be noticeable and if that is worth the extra $$$. Thanks for the great video and self reflection!

[@slpardee10]

Exactly what the "law of diminishing returns" is. Lots of benefit for little money at the start, but as you get to the high end each little improvement costs a fortune.

[@donhinojosa9044]

I can't understand anything, when James does a review I'm 100% in the know lol. Thanks again James.

[@369MatteGrey]

Sometimes I just come back again to James's video..just to listen to his accent, so Beautiful.

[@gregoryflores3178]

Man, looking back later at this video and seeing the depth in this and how he tastes each one in the spot makes me almost wish he did a ultimate hand grinder showdown 2.0. Seeing him dive into something like that would be amazing!!

[@helipeek2736]

Roll on February and the delivery of my Monolith! Well it’s February and there’s a large box with the Kafatek logo on it sitting on my counter top.

[@simoneforgia]

Waiting for a part two of the high-end grinder showdown with the Versalab M4, Ceado e37sd or e37z hero, Bentwood Vertical 63 and Ozik Bold (when available)

[@claudiolevermag]

Well said!

[@Yirgamalabar]

How about the etzMax Plus W? It's a 5K USD version of the Sette 270Wi.

[@alexriebel8862]

this week was great. the showdown was really insightful. Myself personally id get the levercraft and your series cemented that assessment. thanks a bunch.

[@YashSharma-dt4yd]

This series was beyond exciting, thanks James!

[@radiantav]

Money no object, I would probably go with EG-1. Looks the best, design wise it's closest to industrial aesthetics I prefer. Close second is P-64 although I am very intrigued by Option-O HSM which seems nowhere to be found. Because the returns are diminishing, it's seems natural to decide based on how it looks. It may seem superfluous but if you can't discern the differences in taste, then might as well choose the best looking one and enjoy having and using them.

[@mrjohnryan]

I’d like to see a video talking about Palette, palette cleansing technique, and maybe palette bias

[@apbDWfudDPfMCkalgISv]

The slurp at 16:20 took me to a place I didn't think I'd ever go

[@sethclark9780]

I own the Monolith Flat (not the max). Incredible machine. I went from a a rossi, so yeah, of course its amazing compared to that. But honestly, NO cafe in los angeles can match what my lil Monolith can do. I'd love to taste the difference in my Flat and this Flat Max! Thank you for this comparison. Now I want to upgrade again! ;)

[@Hostile_Design]

I see one major advantage the Mahlkönig has over the others, namely that huge-ass hopper. I just want to dump an entire bag of coffee inside the thing and leave it there until I'm out.

[@dannyquiroz5777]

Well done series James, thank you!!! The only grinders I was already aware of were EK43 and Weber

[@micgalovic]

Me sipping instant coffee: mhm, mhm, very interesting

[@smartgorilla]

Same

[@matiaschacana5768]

Try specialty coffee, I was very sceptical but ended blown away by the difference in flavours. It's just a completely different beverage in the end

[@smartgorilla]

@@matiaschacana5768 its all roasted differently and different beans from everywhere. Like me looking for a nice good expresso that isn't super expensive

[@_danielmcg]

I love my levercraft, and I think the burr geometry issue could have been addressed a little more clearly, but overall as great a breakdown as could be reasonably done.

[@Bobpaule]

As the owner of the humble LW manual cousin, the HG-1, I completely agree with your choice, "heirloom grinder" really fits these, my kids will likely inherit mine.

[@speedywiz]

EG-1 certainly deserves the winner, for its aesthetic also, couldn't afford it though (or any of these grinders). thank you for the comparison review video.

[@andreanuansa8522]

thank you james for make this series ! i learned a lot from you...

[@TheHoshe]

Ahora entiendo a los amantes de los autos de lujo viendo comparaciones e información técnica de autos que no pueden comprar jajajaja, realmente me divertí gracias

[@Giraldtec]

wow, so fast! I didnt even notice that the actual review started after the introduction . . . Really good overeall, big fan!

[@Thomas-hl5mp]

Everybody at home watching this and owns a Ek43s: 🥺

[@nielssijm]

I don't own an EK43s (not even close) but fell in love with it straight away. To me, it's the no-nonsense "work-horse" design that does it-playing make-believe with an actual coffee shop grinder would certainly invigorate my coffee dreams 💖 🦄 🌈 ☀️

[@PointlessMiracle]

I just LOVE that waterfall of coffee coming out of the ultra. That honestly almost sells it to me. If it were 1100 $.

[@marcus603]

Just want to say this to you James, THANK YOU for doing this!

[@thesoundofbrown]

Great show. As someone said, it's like watching luxury car reviews or something in terms of vicarious appreciation. Humble suggestion for some point in the future: Table top hand grinders showdown You could line up the Rok, the Kinu M-68, the Malwani Livi, the Pharos, the Apex, the Weber HG-1, one of those very old school looking ones like Zassenhaus does or something like that. Patreon willing, of course.

[@marcin.sobocinski]

I wish James tested Ditting 807 Lab Sweet, looks like a great grinder from purely commercial line that can fit coffee enthusiast kitchen. Something like EK43 successor.

[@The55five5]

I love that you tested exchange not just retention, that's something I had always found wasn't great with the EK. Overall really interesting and valuable comparisons!

[@ttanarugsachock6745]

Great Review on all these grinders, I enjoyed watching it so much.

[@WasimBarri]

I would love a follow up comparison or review with the newer Lagom P100 which has the larger burrs

[@MrThejaddact]

Usually if I look at the length of 25 minutes I will close it, but this time I won't, because it's not boring (at all) and just like seeing a dream come true

[@paulyaron2410]

Thanks for the education and benefit of your experience

[@johanneskramer801]

Hey James, what a wonderful showdown! Thanks for that! Did you ever had your hands on the Ceado E37Z? I only know it from pictures, and in my eyes it looks even better, than these five grinders. Absolutely stunning! I would be very interested what you think about it. Would be great to have a showdown update with the Ceado...

[@laurangelia]

I thought one of them was a telescope and a microscope. All jokes aside, love the content that you put out as usual 💕

[@glengoodwin]

Speaking of a home grinder, I’d love to see a review of the Mahlkönig X54 soon. Please?

[@surrealchemist]

You really gave these machines the beans

[@Nezann]

I really enjoyed every second of this series, honestly thank you

[@PCRoss2469]

Bloody brilliant mate, thanks

[@neojng]

Great summary from a great set of videos - I wish you could have done a blind taste test on them all! Damn covid.

[@anotherguycalledsmith]

@6:24 Thanks a lot for this comparison to the _Niche_ !!! ;-)

[@christianmarth9989]

It would be good to see a showdown of a slightly lower tier of prosumer grinders such as Mazer, Niche, Sette, Rocky etc

[@AB-nb2ic]

I'm sure those grinders are great, but every time I step my coffee game up I notice the improvement only at first, then after a few weeks it's really all the same and I need to step it down to a fresh can of Bustello for a while before I can go back an again appreciate a better bean.

[@keithanthony6422]

James, very informative video. I would have like to have seen the Versalab grinder included in the comparison. Could you do a review on the latest Versalab M4?

[@sightfire]

What a delightful journey to go on

[@user-kl8vj2qy9w]

I'm sorry you gotta drink all these shots of espresso. Thanks for the review man 😭

[@stijnvth]

Imagine you want a machine that has a good grinder, makes a good coffee and espresso, has a good milk steamer ... does this NOT exist at all at an reasonable price? :D I want to make an espresso or a good lungo and be able to make my wife a good chai latte, why is that so difficult to achieve at home. SOooooo many variables. Your videos are insanely interesting. You sure know your stuff and know how to express it. But it just makes me more uncertain what to get :-)

[@australianboy]

0:32 refreshing my memory; “oh yeah, the dream grinders I can’t afford just yet.”

[@australianboy]

The thorough reviews are appreciated as always though.

[@hosegooseman5]

Excellent content. Only one word: Thanks !!!

[@stanislavcoffeeman4310]

Great review, really enjoyable and useful, thank you James👍🏽

[@Dan-kz1oi]

I love your videos Fantastic info and a comprehensive explanation. I would love to know what you think of a ceado grinder e37s? Thanks

[@july2200]

Thanks James Hoffman, I really enjoyed this series. iJust few hours this video was published, Weber rose up $1000.00 more!! What a coincidence!! 🧐

[@seabassisafish5468]

Not gonna lie. This week has been the best of my life.

[@TerryLawrence001]

Grind setting #7 on my barista Express is just right!

[@chipsth1]

@jameshoffmann, god bless on a massive review and all the work entailed. But you should really have included either a Versalab M4 or a Titus Grinder. Especially since your review is more espresso weighted. I own both and have owned and tested every grinder in your review except the Langom and the Ultra.

[@JB-ou7vw]

Thank you very much James. You did a great job testing those. The only question I still have after watching all of those videos: How would you compare those grinders to the best hand grinder out there, the Comandante C40 MK3. I mean in terms of taste.

[@dpcao485]

Amazing job! Thank you! Now I know ultra is my favorite.By the way, ultra just need $1700 in China.

[@Felipedominguez1]

James knows the inside and outs of these coffee grinders so much that he decided to speak their language at 16:23.

[@jrcollings]

I always enjoy watching your videos. Most of the products are way too esoteric and expensive for my wallet, but I appreciate the window into that world that you provide - The same with the amount of anal attention to detail and settings when making coffee.. Please don't ban me for this, but I'm a 'grind roughly the same amount of beans to the setting I've found I like and throw them into the Braun coffee maker' kind of a guy.. but I can still appreciate the acme and those of you that inhabit that arena.

[@adonischou6556]

Six top-of-line grinders are all good.But the look of them is not to my taste.Sometimes appearance is an important factor,So my answer is Compak PK100.

[@mrtwills]

Watching this as I slurp my Dunkin’ Donuts keurig coffee and I’m like eww that EK-43S retention is deplorable.

[@redditislife7997]

Waiting for the “But the Niche is the bestest grinder everrrr” puppets.

[@YvesClashman]

I'm confused as to why there would be much if any taste difference between grinders of this caliber. What variables stem from the the grinder besides grind size, uniformity, and perhaps a small amount of applied heat? If anyone could point me to any resources here/help explain, I would greatly appreciate it. (Loved the series. Hearing about the workflow, aesthetic, and build differences between these grinders has been very informative.)

[@foxgood5173]

I'd be really curious for the results of that fine->coarse->fine retention test, but for a grinder that's explicitly designed to limit retention, like the Niche Zero, Wilfa Uniform, DF64, etc.

[@Yousefbe]

I wish you can review the Kozak Rota manual espresso brewer, it’s similar to Aram that you have reviewed before, but it has a gauge to measure the pressure!

[@JonnyBurkholder]

Hey James, great series! Any chance you'll ever do a series like this, but with commercial grinders that you'd recommend for a café?

[@scrawfordmusic]

Thanks. This was fun! I learned a ton too.

[@Alex-mi6oi]

Great showdown and entertainment! Thank you :)

[@enginucar1135]

Dream team of grinders.

[@audreyhiller]

James's scoring reminds me of a teacher from highschool who used to say "10 is God's, 9 is the teacher's, so grading starts at 8"

[@HardSmartfuxu]

I study law in Germany and the rating system is also very ridiculous. The range is from 0-18 points. 18 is God's and so is 17. 16 and 15 is absolutely flawless and 12-14 is considered an A. Furthermore 9-11 is an A-. 7 and 8 are B, 5 and 6 C. 4 is a standalone D. And 0-3 is just an F.

[@DaveCorbey]

An enjoyable review series...

[@AKValle26]

Thank you for not editing out slurps this time 😉

[@TheLalaland001]

James, you missed out on huge London demographic -share homes in lockdown where 5 people are WFH guzzling coffee... they definitely need an EK

[@ad_fletch]

...or a giant Bunn :)

[@ohauss]

While these grinders can't quite compete with the rent for London homes, some of them are big enough to count as a full occupant for some flats.

[@RC534]

Very nice video... and good to see these kinds of things again after episodes like 'Steam wand scrambled eggs' ;-) Just one remark... no alternative to the MK in an commercial environment? How about the Mazzer ZM. Or one of the large Compak R-series retail grinders?

[@UFCUEAU]

I’d be very interested seeing how grinders like a Baratza Encore would rate on this same scale compared to the Niche and the big boys in this vid!

[@nathanmintz7079]

FANTASTIC reviews ... thank you ...curious ... Do we know the name of the Chinese based company that manufactures the Levercraft Ultra?

[@DeDraconis]

I'm surprised the Monolith was one of the two that you would keep if you had the choice. While it seems a trend with all of these that if they came with a dosing cup they ended up pretty cheap, when it comes to the other accessories you had a complaint out of every one on the Monolith. In contrast, again aside from the dosing cup, you praised every one on the Levercraft Ultra. I guess those are just peripherals and not the grinders themselves though, I can see how the size/bulkiness if the Levercraft would be a turn off - but I still can't get over how amazingly quiet it is compared to everything else. Also, is it my imagination or did you say in the beginning for the brewed coffee test you were going to do filter and immersion brews, and then only showed filter? Or when you said "filter and immersion" did you mean the Hario Switch that blends both?

[@thomasdurant7907]

Well, I ended up on the Option-O website and am ordering a Remi. I think the p-64 is obtainable after I have a better espresso machine.

[@zephyrpp]

8:02 The Levecraft popcorned a bean outta there.

[@JackOusley]

I’ve really enjoyed this series. I have the Sette 270wi now, but it love to see a series about 500-1000 grinders, or best under 1,000. My main complaint about the Sette is the plastic build, and the fact that it throws coffee everywhere. Been thinking of having a friend print me a custom porta funnel. Have a great week.

[@thegoblintown]

You should buy some of those weird grinders off of aliexpress/alibaba and do reviews on them. Would be an interesting different side but it would be interesting to see what kind of catastrophic stuff they do. There is also an imitation Kees machine I saw once

[@deeganboy21]

He likes the shiny one the best! What a shocker:)