The Ultimate Guide to Tangzhong | The Science of Tangzhong or Yudane

[@HoustonCanuck]

Found your Baguette video a few weeks ago. I'm a French trained chef and make a decent Baguette, but decided to try the method described. My teacher would hate me, but love it! It takes a while, but I'm able to make a double batch of dough starting saturday, separate to 280g pieces, pre-shape and place in a proofing container in the fridge for a full week of bread. Just take out a pre-shaped ball, let it come to room temp, shape a baguette, let rise and bake. Did this last week and every baguette was amazing. I have a conventional oven with convection, so I conventional bake with steam for about 15-20 min , then convection bake for another 10 or so, depending on baguette size and diameter. Also, I use a mixer as well before folding in the bowl. I have also found that if I use a Baguette pan on top of my baking steel makes for a better cook. End of the story is I love your base recipe, and I think everyone will have to adjust to their own kitchen and style as long as they follow the science! Forget the haters and purists. Always room for people to learn and evolve.

[@NovitaListyani]

Thank you for your kind words, and we're so glad you enjoyed the baguette! It's definitely not a pure and traditional recipe, but it does give fantastic results. I completely agree with you on the baking steel, we typically use a cast iron Dutch oven and find that the heat it accumulates really does make for better bread. Happy baking 😊

[@porshenn]

What? How on earth someone can start hate and racism in such useful and very neutral videos? Don’t listen anyone, your videos are the best in this field and you are the most adorable KZbinr 😊 thank you for your work

[@NovitaListyani]

Thanks! Glad you like our videos!

[@jaegerschtulmann]

Social media and internet truly exposed how trashy some people can be!

[@faithtaylor612]

I agree!! I think my biggest pet peeve is these people that can type vulgar things (race baiters) on their keyboard and think they’re ALL THAT!! This young LADY has educated me so much. I love her explanations as I understand HOW I achieved the results I did. I appreciate your comment! ❤️

[@HeraBek]

Aren't you a little bit too way too smart to be letting internet nitwits get to you? Just remember for every sad, cruel little person there are thousands who just appreciate your hard work. Thank you for making some of the absolute best baking content on youTube and not watering anything down, or catering it to "the algorithm". And finally, thank you for coalescing everything into one video, it's very useful!

[@NovitaListyani]

Thanks!

[@EmmaDee]

Young lady, you are not an artisan or baker, you are a dang scientist!! I appreciate your knowledge so much because it’s all Japanese arithmetic to me!! Get it!!

[@NovitaListyani]

❤️thanks!

[@NeilSarap]

I would say she is all of those.

[@geraldfriesen5600]

I add my voice to those who thank you for blocking/ignoring the trolls and continuing to educate those of us who want to learn the science behind baking better bread. I'm currently making a dough combining the 20% yudane method with sourdough using freshly milled grains, inspired by your videos.

[@moehinn]

There are folks out there like me who really appreciate all your videos and work! Please don't give up! haters gonna hate - don't let them get to you

[@NovitaListyani]

Thank you for your warm words

[@chef-magoo]

so sorry to hear you’re having to deal with trolls! Personally, although some of your technical expertise goes a bit over my head, your practical application has been a great benefit to my baking. I greatly appreciate all the hard work you put into this. I cannot help but think that those who had nothing good to say about what you had to offer or simply threatened by your breath and depth of knowledge. Again, thank you and keep up the great work! Bake on

[@NovitaListyani]

Thank you so much for your kind comment.

[@davidclark9086]

It is currently Monday morning and this is not at all what I expected. That she has been trolled by belligerent people does not surprise me while her strength and determination to continue to make very informative videos truly impresses me. I doubt I will ever repeat the science she provided but I will make the bread. Thank you very much.

[@jacobcohen9205]

You are a brilliant teacher ,ignore all these idiots who send you hate mails. As an aside, this method of gelatinisinf flour has been used in Europe for a very long time. It is called the scaled flour method as you also alude to in your post here. My preference is for Yudane. All the best from the United Kingdom.

[@NovitaListyani]

Thanks!

[@DC-Aust]

I for one love your videos and think you do a fantastic job educating us home bakers. Thank you.

[@NovitaListyani]

Thank you so much!

[@2006hluis]

I’m a professional chef, this is a great explanation. Not something I am familiar with and will be experimenting with a bit more. I think it will be helpful at building a bit and structure around breads made with things like sweet plantain bread which is what I’m working on now

[@mikewurlitzer5217]

Fantastic video which I need to watch a few times to get all the info. Forget those tiny little people with the small minds. You are beautiful, smart, and unlike them, trying to make the bread baking world a little better one video at a time. I for one, a retired engineer, turned hobby baker, have yet to have Tangzhong or Yudane ever fail to deliver on it's claims. Not many things in baking bread can make that claim. It has even made a world of difference in fresh milled whole wheat bread by bringing out it's hidden sweetness and eliminating the bitter taste of the bran.

[@NovitaListyani]

Thank you, I really appreciate your comment.

[@iluminameluna]

It's true. Another baker (nerd) I follow (for different reasons) calls it a "scald" but it's essentially a yudane. He uses it to soften the bran in his whole wheat bread in order to create a very soft and sweet loaf without having to either load it with sweetners, or even white bread flour unless it's by the baker's choice. And this is a recent development on his part! 😊 Wouldn't surprise me if he's been following you in secret! ❤😂 He's such a good guy though, I don't think so or he'd have said. Check him out: @ChainBaker... 😊 Bread is his best and

[@ocarinasrule]

as someone finding this video by itself I just want to say thank you for providing such a thorough and scientific explanation of the subject! I have some scientific background so seeing all the data you've gotten from the original papers is super impressive, and I'm looking forward to trying using tangzhong a lot more in my home baking

[@TheSporceror]

Man, I just read about this method in a comment section, and now I'm down the rabbit hole. For what it's worth, this is a super high-quality and informative video. Sorry that you've received hate for your tutorials. Thank you for sharing. I'm excited to try this!

[@Imelda327tan]

I love your videos. I’m a big fan. Im amazed at how you explain very scientifically. I am a food scientist myself and you do justice to the subject. Thank you. Pls continue to share similar topics. Very interesting.

[@NovitaListyani]

Thank you very much, really appreciate your encouragement 🙏

[@nassimghrayeb2005]

This is by far the best description and how to I've seen on Tangzhong, and realized why it has been working for me, thanks for this enlightening deep dive from an experienced baker!

[@NovitaListyani]

Glad you like it, thank you very much!

[@RaguRagu33]

Sorry to hear about the negativity. Your videos are amazing. Very informative. You can tell you put a lot of work into them. Keep up the great work.

[@NovitaListyani]

Thank you! Will do!

[@DavidTaylorGo.Go.Go.]

I'm bewildered as to how anyone could give you abuse over an educational video. Please forget the trolls and keep making these superb videos.

[@NovitaListyani]

Thank you so much for your warm words and support.

[@williammimart2386]

J'adore les vidéos documentées sur un sujet que l'intervenant maitrise. Vos interventions sont parfaites pour moi. Je suis désolé que vous ayez du recevoir des commentaires racistes ou d'autres natures désagréables mais sachez qu'il existe des lecteurs de vos vidéos qui apprécient pleinement leurs qualités. Un grand merci. Très cordialement.

[@NovitaListyani]

Merci pour votre commentaire de soutien, j'apprécie vraiment cela.

[@derikjbrandt]

I value your videos and really like your approach. Thank you for helping!

[@michaelprozonic]

I really love your hard work, diligent research and excellent presentations. People who disrespect you are ignorant and mean, Thank you for making this summary video

[@NovitaListyani]

Thank you for your heart-warming support!

[@arsulaksono881]

Hi Seraphine, thank u so much for promoting tangzhong into sourdough. I added tangzhong to my wheat sourdough and it became tender and smooth. The answer that i've been looking for years !! Now i go commercial with my micro bakery

[@jgraeff1]

Appreciate your efforts into researching the history, as a chef it’s helpful to know how these things came about and how to use them

[@NovitaListyani]

Thanks for watching!

[@ck9951]

Fantastic video! Keep it on! Support you!

[@ray_99]

The information in this video is really useful for someone who is looking to get into baking. I baked my first item last week which was a box mix cake.

[@SamBrickell]

Every journey starts at the beginning. :)

[@dilboteabaggins]

Thank you so much for such a fantastic deep dive into the science of tangzhong/yudane. I am a science nerd at heart, and the way you present the material resonates deeply with me. Please continue making such high quality content. I have learned so much from you

[@NovitaListyani]

Thank you so much for your comment!

[@dilboteabaggins]

@NovitaListyani my pleasure. I have seen a bunch of BS from some pretty angry, negative people on your channel. I hope the comments from those knuckle-draggers doesn't prevent you from making more content. You are furthering the knowledge available to home bakers, and I for one am here for every minute of it. I just used your guidelines for tangzhong to make up a 40% butter brioche. The hydration is higher than I would have liked, but I had to make compromises to incorporate enough eggs, butter AND tangzong into the dough. Came out at 70% hydration, 40% butter. The hydration is much higher than a traditional brioche...but this isn't a traditional brioche! We will see how it bakes up! My ultimate goal is to make cinnamon buns that will last for a few days and not stale. Normal brioche stales so rapidly.

[@NovitaListyani]

Really curious about your tangzhong brioche, kindly update us on the progress, thanks!

[@dilboteabaggins]

@NovitaListyani it baked up nicely. I had to bake it longer than I wanted as the filling I rolled in to it was a bit too wet. I think it was depressing the temp of the dough, the internal temp stalled for a while. It eventually came up, but the top was more browned than I would have preferred. I'm waiting for it to cool to cut in to it to see how it came out.

[@dilboteabaggins]

@@NovitaListyani I hope it's okay, I sent you a picture of the brioche on messenger. I found your socials on your KZbin profile

[@louislinyl]

Thank you so much for sharing your experiment and knowledge. I find it very professional and useful. I can’t not imagine and sorry to hear that there are people attacking you… Please be assure that you are loved by so many home bakers around the world. ❤❤❤❤

[@NovitaListyani]

So nice of you! Thanks!

[@BenChengnz]

Don't worry about what the hater said. You have my support and i love your videos ❤

[@NovitaListyani]

Thank you!

[@tradeforrice7571]

Thank you for sharing detail on how to properly make Tangzhong.

[@NovitaListyani]

Thanks for visiting

[@jamelynromero2637]

Love your explanations and your videos. Can you help me find a copycat of crispy creme donuts? Thank you so much

[@blondeenotsomuch]

When you try to investigate, seek understanding, find truth, even in as innocent and basic subject as bread, people who do not think or examine reality get mean and nasty because they are weak. Keep going, we are enjoying watching you on your adventure.

[@lucienereginatellesdecerqu3332]

Thank you for everything you have been working on, you areamazing! I am from Brazil and have been learning from you. Thanks!

[@Poindexters-Obsession]

Thank you, I appreciate the work you put in and information you're providing. I just want to make my home donuts better, so I watch many bread videos. Pretty too.

[@ashleyobiekwe9390]

Pay no mind to the haters; they’re just mad cos you’re so much smarter than they are. That’s no big compliment cos people like that are usually extremely ignorant and dumb. Please keep making your videos, I am new to your channel and new to bread making and they have been very helpful to me. Thank you!

[@NovitaListyani]

Thank you very much for your kind comment.

[@mrsmeganmoyer]

I am so thankful you take the time to make such informative videos. You have taught me so much. Sending LOVE and so many well wishes!!

[@NovitaListyani]

Thank you so much!

[@robertfox2510]

Just found your channel while investigating these methods. Thanks for your detailed explainations and references. Keep the content coming please. Ignore the haters. Your content rocks!

[@vitoos.6469]

I love that you pack so much information in your video and provide the reference. I have to watch a few times to get all the points. I used to think that the Tangzjong is just about moisture retention. You gave me a new perspective on this, and I will make an adjustment based on your method.

[@cesarosummary]

Excellent series. Thank you for your amazing videos!

[@NovitaListyani]

Thanks for watching!

[@xfenix13]

Hola tiene muy poco que te sigo me encantan tus videos eres muy profesional al explicar no hagas caso de los malos comentarios sigue siendo como eres gracias por tu buen trabajo soy novata en panadería y todos tus consejos son un gran regalo

[@aditmacan]

i'm really amazed by your videos, not only the information, how you explained them, you also have beautiful voice. i hope success for you and your works. dont let the haters get you down.

[@lesbutler273]

"That's it for this video." There's more? My head is spinning and I have a Masters Degree in Science. Ps. You are my favourite follow. Every video is an advanced class.

[@NovitaListyani]

Haha, the science on this is extensive and very fun. Thank you for the kind comment!

[@jabberbinablan7808]

I'm from the UAE it is the first time I see someone like you explaining scientifically how preferment works and use. I used this method many years back I learnt about it when I was in a holiday trip to Thailand but never ever thought it is so important. Wish you all the best and my advice to neglect people who are trying to put you down itnis jealousy 😊

[@NovitaListyani]

Thanks!

[@willy_nilly2]

great work. 👍🙏

[@JavierGonzalezJuan-l4z]

Mi mas sinceras felicitaciones eres una experta en este arte y te lo agradezco mucho por compartir todas tus experiencias, desde España espero que sigas deleitandonos con tus maravillosos videos, muchas gracias y no hagas caso de las criticas suelen ser pura envidia, sigue asi.

[@NovitaListyani]

Muchas gracias por tus palabras amables; de verdad me levantaron el ánimo.

[@whatsay8406]

Love the videos. Love your logic. Once you understand the workings of things it’s easier to work with and spot issues or none issues. Thank you!

[@robbie_ray]

I never thought i needed this in my life and yet here we are :)

[@utinsutiwi]

Serasa kuliah lagi. OMG, thank you so much! You are the best!! 😍

[@anthonyalles1833]

Would love to see your take on other steps we could take, other than using Tangzhong/Yudane, to delay staling in bread - e.g. the use of potato flour, acidification, additives like leithin, storage methods - e.g. plastic bags, etc. Thanks!

[@NovitaListyani]

Noted

[@anthonyalles1833]

@@NovitaListyani Would be great also to learn about the use and effect of Spelt in bread recipes. Haven't found a good analysis of that yet; my apologies if you've already covered this in some other video I may have missed. Thanks!

[@humaneinterface210]

Wonderful and so informative, really appreciate this and your other videos (just made sourdough baguette with tangzhong yesterday - baking today ) and found your videos to see if anyone else had done the same thing). I very much appreciate the level of detail and clear explanations. I'm sad to say I've learned I use too much liquid in the Tangzhong and neglected to let it rest and cool down. Next time I'll do better :-) Thank you so much for doing these videos.

[@phyllisgordon6577]

You love what you do so keep going. Thanks forvso enthusiastically researching and lending understanding to the bread making process. Are you sure you are not a college professor?

[@stinde]

Thanks for a great and thorough presentation of this interesting subject. It gave me lots of new ideas.

[@NovitaListyani]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@michaelmcnally1242]

OK I just started a batch of bread using about a 1.25/1 water/flour tangzhong made according to this video. I am having a weird evening now because of the phenomenon of the hot water and flour paste becoming sweet-smelling, like quite distinctly, after like a couple minutes of moderate stirring and folding. I have tried (mostly in vain) to get family members to share in the insanely cool "wow nature is amazing" feelings I'm having. I'm familiar with amylase enzymes from my home brewing career 30+ years ago, but I never expected to have something like a hot mash experience with a little bowl of flour and hot water. Honestly, the sweet aroma of the warm paste is not subtle. Totally amazing, and my life is changed.

[@CARLOSJUSTINIANO-hf7qe]

very ilustrative, many thanks and blessings

[@NovitaListyani]

Many thanks!

[@mlopolis]

You are really good! Great delivery, awesome research, you even succinctly explained statistical significance. I only have praise for you and your videos! Keep going, don't get side-tracked by haters.

[@NovitaListyani]

Thanks for watching! Your warm words mean a lot to us 😊

[@grimmforrest1949]

Mindblown ❤ I now understand more on how the ingredients and elements dance together to create awesome results. Looking forward to new insights. You rock gurl 🎉 😍

[@NovitaListyani]

Thanks!

[@blchen1]

Absolutely fascinating work!!🤗

[@NovitaListyani]

Many thanks!

[@irinaosipova9308]

Thank you for such interesting information.

[@kimtran2600]

Great videos!

[@NovitaListyani]

Glad you like them!

[@PeeJay3714]

People can be venomous so take it with grain of salt. There's a lot of people that are inspired by your thoroughness and articulation of the subjects you convey. Bread should be broken to encourage a union of hearts and minds. Those who want to make it a territorial argument should be ignored. We love you Sera❤❤❤❤❤

[@NovitaListyani]

Thanks for the kind words and support!

[@michaelmcnally1242]

I think I need to lie down after watching that, my brain is melting. However I am immediately after that going to change my bread software to bring the tangzhong ratio way way down. This video should be in a museum.

[@justaute]

Hi Seraphine...found your channel in the last 24 hours and have thus far enjoyed watching your videos. Certainly appreciate your scientific approach. I'm a total baking noob as i started just a few days ago. 😂 Quick question...out of curiosity, what prompted you to investigate the 1:5 tangzhong ratio? I noticed you were still using the 1:5 ratio just a year ago. Thanks.

[@NovitaListyani]

Mostly explained here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/lZ6pipifgd9_ptE

[@vanderbb01]

Love your videos! I now have a better understanding on what to expect when using yudane at 1:2 ratio. Current application is whole grain sourdough sandwich loaf bread. I’ve found increasing protein content by 3 to 5 percent makes up for slight loss of dough structure. Loaf stays fresh a lot longer. 🙏

[@NovitaListyani]

Thanks for the info!

[@aliciacorelli2908]

You’re amazing, great information

[@johnthanks9332]

how is this not top result when searching tengzhong?

[@antonc81]

Great video as always. I wonder if you’ve seen the fermented rice starter technique shown in Chinese Cooking Demystified’s video on Anshun “sourdough” bao ? Could be an interesting technique to combine with tangzhong..

[@NovitaListyani]

I assume you meant fermentation with 酵子 (Jiao Zi), the Chinese traditional dough fermentation starter. I believe it is pretty much like sourdough and tangzhong bread that we have made. As soon as we have the 酵子 (Jiao Zi) on hand we will try it out and see if there is any difference.

[@antonc81]

@@NovitaListyani I think they used something they called “laozao wine” - kzbin.info/www/bejne/noOWanZrfNKlZ8U . Based on my (limited) understanding of Chinese rice wines the starter (jiuqu) can be a more complex combo of fungi/mold/bacteria and yeast. Though I haven’t done any real research on this and may be mistaken.

[@amelialau5112]

Don worry..u r the best..just ignore those hater..we love ur beautiful clearly explain in details..though may not understand all..bt I do learn something..thks ..God bless u ..❤

[@NovitaListyani]

So nice of you

[@rutchu]

Seraphine - super curious about your language skills. Your American accent is spot on, except for a few charming quirks like the long "a" in "patent" and the long first "e" in "reference." The depth of your vocabulary, especially where it gets technical and scientific, and facility with complex sentence structure suggests a highly educated native English speaker, but maybe not from the U.S. Did you grow up multilingual? Singapore? You also nail the Mandarin pronunciations, and seem to know written Japanese and Chinese to the extent of being able to read research papers with their technical vocabulary. So impressive!

[@NovitaListyani]

Thanks for the kind comment! I did indeed grow up in a multilingual environment, although I did pick up several Asian languages a little later on.

[@Tr33fiddy]

Damn I love science. And the great thing about science is that it's factual and *neutral*.

[@NovitaListyani]

Indeed! Thank you 🙏

[@glennthomas4159]

This was very strange. I first learned about tangzhong in a cinnamon roll recipe. I think of it as a term in cooking like a French word like Levain. Just ignore trolls and remember a lot of people love your deep knowledge and thorough explanations. That’s why I come here and will keep coming here. I studied Chinese for 2 years and lived I Korea for 6 so maybe I’m more open minded than some of you more hateful visitors. I’m a subscriber and watch at least 1 of your videos every day.

[@blchen1]

Thanks for the great video! btw, how are those kitties (now probably grown-up cats) doing?

[@NovitaListyani]

Thank you for your generosity! Puma and Choco are still with us, Choco is a big boy now, at home, he is more like a guard than a policeman when it comes to uninvited visitors, aka rats :) but he doesn't have his mom's wild talent of catching mice. Capuccino, Kopsu and Latte have already been adopted.

[@blchen1]

@@NovitaListyani that's lovely!😊

[@pierreperrault2150]

Vos vidéos sont très bien documentés et vos explications sont savamment transmises. Je fais régulièrement la recette de pain Shokupan dont je ne pourrais me passer (The Science of a Japanese Milk Bread: A Shohupan Recipe). Merci pour vos bons conseils.

[@NovitaListyani]

Merci beaucoup!

[@Nivlaek5thAge]

Great video. Thank you!

[@NovitaListyani]

Glad you liked it!

[@ooh_iz]

Hi, thank you for your comprehensive video. Just want to ask if we can use tangzhong/yudane along with preferments?

[@iluminameluna]

I know from personal experience that you CAN. You can use it with a biga, poolish, sourdough starter, and even a scald method that's popular in Europe with whole grain breads. I've tried it, the tangzhong I mean, with all except the sourdough, and my bread has been eaten in record time, EVERY time I've made it. Especially the whole grain buns. And my grands are VERY picky when it comes to bread. I'm only one home baker though, so take it as it is. ❤

[@j17nana]

Thank you for this video. Where can I get a copy of Yvonne Chen book?

[@diahayukurniasari6296]

Sist can you explain more about the tanzhong and yudane, what if you add some bread improver to them? Can you explain more also about bread improver?

[@NeilSarap]

Would it work to mix the water and flour, and then vacuum seal and sous vide to the proper temperature without losing water to evaporation, and getting a complete cook to the flour?

[@NovitaListyani]

If I'm not mistaken, that's how scientists do it.

[@NeilSarap]

Very cool, I was thinking I could make a bunch up and freeze them

[@alinesanta8812]

Can u do bapao with tangzhong plz 🙏🏻😀

[@NovitaListyani]

Thank you for your suggestion!

[@dyannzepeda2323]

You are doing amazing ❤

[@martin-pecina]

Thank you very much for these detailed and scientifically based videos. However, I have one question. Will the tangzhong method work the same if I replace the boiling water with milk, or can it have some pitfalls?

[@nataliakosachenko7453]

Thank you very much for your perfect videos. I have learned a lot of useful things from you. I have a problem with hand kneading sourdough with 1:1 tangzhong. It is not possible to illuminate some not dissolved lumps. Can you please give me an advice for tangzhong hand kneading?

[@NovitaListyani]

I usually break down the clumps a few moment after I add the Tangzhong, by mixing it into the water/liquids, for example kzbin.info/www/bejne/fKnKc3isoM2hfMkm40s

[@nataliakosachenko7453]

Thank you very much@@NovitaListyani

[@Maggie-c7v]

Thank you for explaining Tangzhong/Yudane. I am trying to use this method for Bon Appetit/Claire Saffitz’ Morning Buns. They are delicious, but don’t remain that way long. I think this added moisture would help. But I cannot figure out how to convert this recipe. Can you help me?

[@bggines_1260]

For this 1:1 ratio like 100gms of flour to 100gms of water of yudane how much amount of flour can be added to form a dough?

[@calvinkwok7158]

You did the right thing you'll always have haters, because they're too stupid and think they know everything. For my part I haven't tried any of your recipe yet, considering that I've been watching cooking videos for years. I know by instinct who's good or not. There are too many pretended cooks on KZbin, they may have lot of views, but they just suck at cooking. I'm sure what you're sharing is the right method, please continu to do what you love.

[@NovitaListyani]

Thanks!

[@karinaa8285]

Love your video! 😊 I’ve tried to use yudane at 1:1 ratio with 20% of total flour in making bagels but noticed it takes longer for the dough to rise than usual. I wonder if it’s because I used the yudane right after it cooled down or something else. Do you have any thoughts? Thanks!

[@NovitaListyani]

Yes, the proofing time especially will be longer. Actually it's mentioned in this video at 10:36 from [Hiroaki Yamauchi, 2014] “The water absorption for bread making and final proofing time in this method increased according to the increase in added Yudane dough volume. On the other hand, the Gas Retention of Dough, Gassing Power and Specific Loaf Volume decreased with the increase in the amount of added Yudane dough. Bread appearance and crumb grain were also slightly degraded with the increase of added Yudane dough. Meanwhile, the moisture content of the bread increased significantly according to the volume of added Yudane dough, reflecting the increase of water absorption for bread making.”

[@daveanything]

In an earlier video where you are making integral japanese bread with tangzhong, you are using a 1:5 mixture and making it on the stove.. can you help me understand the change?

[@Crow-df9qs]

Thank you so much for your content!!! I wanted to ask about how using milk influences the process for recipes that use only milk instead of water. Do you have to use the Tangzhong method since you can’t boil the milk? Does anything change?

[@tekgaw9124]

Thank you so very much ❤❤❤

[@NovitaListyani]

🙏 thank you to!

[@אור.א-י7ה]

Thanks to you I started using yudane and got a lot of compliments for the softness off the breads, thank you ❤ but I noticed that a dough with yodane is less elastic , so maybe it's not suitable for all kinds of breads? I find it great for pizza or cinnamon rolls but less for sourdough breads ‏‪ because I like to work with a more elastic dough. Is my gut feeling right? or am I just doing something wrong?

[@NovitaListyani]

In many of our videos on Tangzhong, including this one, we have explained that the heat treatment denatures the protein in the flour used for tangzhong. Denatured proteins cannot take part in the development of the gluten network, so, yes, you would end up with less elasticity, the degree of which depends on how much flour you used for the Tangzhong. To get the elasticity you want, you can use less flour for tangzhong or you can add a bit of vital wheat gluten in the final dough. If you browse through our videos that use both tangzhong and sourdough, we usually use tangzhong to address certain specific issues. Mostly hydration related.

[@אור.א-י7ה]

@@NovitaListyani thank you very much for the informative answer🌸

[@dyannzepeda2323]

Can these be made in the oven?😅

[@pachin253]

Your apron is so cute😍

[@neztoro24]

Not to sound facetious, but when would it be recommended to NOT use yudane? I would think that if one of the chief effects is reducing gluten and gas retention, then high hydration doughs would be a bad idea, however you seem to suggest the opposite.

[@Someone-21-y]

Hi @Novita, what do you think about the idea to add little to the dough if I use Yudane 20 so that to help strengthen the gluten formation ?!

[@NovitaListyani]

Do you mean adding a little bit of vital wheat gluten? This can indeed help strengthen the gluten formation, although it might make the bread chewier and a little harder, so it's best to add it in moderation.

[@Someone-21-y]

@@NovitaListyani thanks @Novita in fact I did not mean adding the gluten but only white vinegar?

[@NovitaListyani]

Addition of acids strengthen the dough structure at the beginning of the mixing phase but caused opposite effects after longer mixing times. I don't think that will help a dough with Yudane 20.

[@Someone-21-y]

@@NovitaListyani thx you much , then instead I will continue with adding polish 10% on the top of Yudane 20, does that better option!

[@leechrec]

Hmm so now I'm wondering. If my goal is to increase moisture absorption/retention while also retaining volume and oven spring, would it be reasonable to use yudane and also add vital wheat gluten and add a little more water (say 2% more) to account for the addition of the gluten ?

[@NovitaListyani]

Hydration is highly related to the bread we want to make. If you add wheat gluten and then add more water, you have to make sure your overall hydration still reflects the kind of bread you want to make. Changing the overall hydration may end up altering the recipe you have. So it's not a one size fits all kind of solution. Tangzhong enables us to raise the hydration for soft white bread by about 3-6% for Yudane 20-40, as mentioned in the paper by Hiroaki Yamauchi et al., based on optimal dough development, but if you'd like to experiment a little more, in lean bread recipes, you can go much further with the hydration. Take a look at our tangzhong Ciabatta, Pizza and other lean-bread videos with tangzhong, and you'll see that we raised the hydration pretty high. In the case of Ciabatta, we raised it to 100%.

[@leechrec]

@@NovitaListyani Thanks Novita!

[@pralishmegobsin2754]

it's possible if I do Tangzhong with spiral mixer??, It's not easy for 2,000 g for flour and 4,000 g of water lol

[@Rev3rence]

Why the hell people are busy worrying about origins and/or races when this channel is focused on improving baking through understanding the chemistry behind is beyond me. On a different note : following the video where you disect the tangzhong % that should be used- i've attempted 20% and it was so overwhelmingly strong in taste and consistency that i could literally taste it directly. I then tried a 10% and it was much much much more manageable, however still a tad overbearing in some of the bites. I do want to look to go down to 7.5% next time as i feel like 5% may not be sufficient. I do have to note i use the cooking on low fire method and not the mixing boiling water, which may lead to different results..

[@smnksorc6663]

Would it be possible to increase the percentage of milk? Can you do yudane method with milk? In germany bread labeled as "milkbread" has to contain at least 50% milk in bakers percentage,so you wouldn't be able to sell it as milkbread in germany. What would be an approach to converting a bread recipe to tangzhong recipe that uses only milk as liquid? Of course milk is not 100% so you have to keep that in mind. Could you just use the milk for the yudane? Does it have any negative consequences? For home bakers it wouldn't be a problem to swap some of the milk for water,but commercial bakers would run into the problem of not having enough milk in the bread.

[@CARLOSJUSTINIANO-hf7qe]

Seraphine you also have style!!! 😊

[@EricBerdinis]

Hi! I love your videos. I'm trying to adapt my challah recipe (45% hydration) to use the yudane method. If I stick with yudane 20%, then I can only use 1:1.4 ratio of flour:water in the yudane bc I don't have water left to use (the rest of the water is in eggs and honey). If I want a 1:2 ratio, then I need to lower the yudane flour percent to 14.5%. Which will yield a better result?

[@NovitaListyani]

You can go as low as Yudane 20 with 1:1 ratio, the result will not change that much.

[@EricBerdinis]

@@NovitaListyani Thanks I'll try it

[@zoltangacsi4614]

Utmost respect to your outstanding (not very many youtuber venture into scientific explanations) videos!!! ... If you say 14% of 100g flour is water, then isn't that 14g water that adds to the 100g water? (it a miniscule question, sorry)

[@sitmengchue4077]

You are twins! Double happiness! Cheers!

[@NovitaListyani]

Cheers! We are not twins.

[@llamallamaduck4450]

Hi :) Quick question, do you have all this written out somewhere? Like a website, maybe? It's much easier to understand these things from text:D

[@NovitaListyani]

Not yet 😊