The UNSC's "Spartan Branch" Makes No Sense | Halo

After the end of the Human-Covenant War, the Spartans were elevated to their own independent service branch. This seems like a poorly thought out idea.
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[@TemplinInstitute]

Still makes more sense than most of our tweets though. twitter.com/TemplinEdu

[@IAmTheAce5]

Now please talk about our 'Space Force'.

[@pieter-bashoogsteen2283]

@@IAmTheAce5 I can understand why you would say something like that, thoough I do think that there is a very compelling argument to be made in favor of the Spaceforce. On top of that unlike the Spartan branch it isn't inconsistent in that it centralized all Space assets under it, not just some.

[@bradenanders9105]

It seems what happened is the commander used the Spartans position as the central heroes of the war, with them likely featuring heavily in propaganda and recruitment campaigns, as political ammunition to gain more and more operational independence. Likely depicting nine spartan oversight as crippling and dangerous. This rapid pursuit of independence then led to Spartans becoming there own Branch regardless of the fact they are still largely dependent on the other branches for material, equipment, and personal. In summary, the decision to make the Spartans an independent branch seem to have been a political rather than strategic one, it would have been fueled by calls from Spartans for greater operational freedom and public perception of them as less so soldiers and more so super heroes or knights in shining armor. With the commander saying the Spartans needed greater freedom to protect humanity, the public would demand that his wish be granted. Even if the commanders wishes never made it to the public, giving the Spartans greater freedom to protect humanity would still be a very popular prospect that many a politician would be quick to take advantage of. Being seen as the one to let humanity's "guard dogs" of the leash would certainly be politically advantageous.

[@ianmorris2593]

We have a lot of Special Mission Units that have a similar structure and recruitment process. Difficulties are intrinsic with this separate and unequal treatment, but it’s necessary to do what they do. Our Joint Special Operations Command draws from multiple branches, and functions outside of the normal tracks of authority.

[@Imperatoroth5th]

Perhaps you should look at it the same way marines came to be. ( tho most sourcres state philadelpia i mean the one from the netherlands which is 1665 and the latter 1775 )

[@Paul-A01]

"Son, you're being transferred to the Spartan branch" "Oh wow, will I get some augmentations and power armor?" "No, you're logistics and procurement. Grab a clipboard, we need to slightly change the colors on all the logos. "

[@Butter_Warrior99]

Lowly enlisted-men: Yes sir.

[@smithingbear7522]

Im pretty sure that everyone in the branch is a Spartan. I don't know why they would waste the mo ey either but from what I've read they do infact waste the money.

[@inorite4553]

And in the real world, anyone pulled from a difference branch to go work for Special Operations would still jump at the chance to be a: Supply Sergeant, Commo Sergeant or Admin Specialist under USASOC. Even if you're not Special Forces qualified, working in that community grants you access to their same funding accounts and reserved slots for special deployments and special training.

[@808INFantry11X]

@@smithingbear7522 the problem is the Military is a complicated organism I served in two branches the US Navy and now the US Army and the problem is there is in all branches waste because the military often does so many things all at once. Take the Navy for example it spent the 90's doing tinkering with fringe designs such as the the Zumwalt calls destroyers and Littoral Combat Ships to succeed proven ships like cruisers and frigate respectively. In both cases they allowed those said proven design programs to stagnate and delay making the Cruiser refits unaffordable and complicated.

[@808INFantry11X]

@@smithingbear7522 the Spartan branch if you try to put in context it sounds like what USSOCOM is however its an overall command not a branch. If anything the spartan branch would realistically be something like JSOC and operational support command to USSOCOM that would specialize in the said spartan deployments.

[@Br0Dud3]

Templin Institute: “Here’s a look at the Spartan branch.” Also Templin Institute the next day: “Here’s why the Spartan branch is the dumb.”

[@hildenburg5]

lmao

[@TailAbNormal]

Came here for this comment.

[@Otterdisappointment]

Infighting in interdimensional media

[@TemplinInstitute]

Nobody picks up on my patterns. What am I gonna say next? Graham cracker! You didn't know.

[@rexlumontad5644]

@@TemplinInstitute Graham Aker the Union Flag Mobile Suit Fighter: "You rang?"

[@LasertechStudios3142]

I think your argument is solid here. The arrangement and details of Spartan Operations sound a lot like an attempt to create an independent, autonomous military order within the UNSC that can operate as it pleases. Operational efficiency be damned.

[@maxmoore970]

Just how ONI would want it, nice and confusing

[@manuelgonzalezrios1314]

@@maxmoore970 it makes sense that ONI would the Spartans to be as isolated from other branches so they have as much control they can on them

[@awes5709]

Ummm..."Nobody let's the Chief do anything, He does what he wants".... As it should be.. nuf said.

[@rexlumontad5644]

Sounds like A-Laws

[@Grizabeebles]

How different is the Spartan Ops program from the British Commandos, though? 3 Commando battalion still exists and has a place as a special warfare branch within the British military.

[@awesomehpt8938]

The Spartans were perfectly fine being under Naval Special Warfare Command. Let the brass handle strategic deployment of Spartans so the Spartans can full devote themselves to using their enhanced abilities and equipment without having to worry about running themselves. You don’t see Delta Force or the SAS having such autonomy. You need those guys to achieve the objectives they’re given by military command.

[@death299]

the SAS isn't made up of super soldiers that can do strategic planning better than 5 star brass is capable of either it's not a "waste" of spartans or their talent, alot of administration is made up of soldiers you can no longer slap on the front lines anyway, what better use is their of a crippled super soldier if not to put their mind into planning and administration of other super soldiers?

[@kesmeseker9593]

@@death299 Spartans were never meant to be commanding officers. They are best at concieving tactical plans with the situation at hand. They are adaptable super soldiers, not brass officers. Unified ground command handles the strategic deployment cuz they are staff officers trained for that purpose alone. And also those cripple prodigies can and did integrate into CENTCOM and NAVCOM.

[@death299]

@@kesmeseker9593 wtf do you think a brass is?, literally no one is "meant" to be a commanding officer, it's determined by knowledge and experience or do you think that after a certain age people can't be trained into commanders? yknow, making every general in history a "bad commander" since they weren't "meant" for that task

[@alwaysonyourtail2563]

@@kesmeseker9593 they are commanding officer. in practice if not in name due of the fact they can give out orders and take any equipment as they see fit on the battlefield. the fact that spartans looks at a war zone and make a quick plan on the fly says have vast combat knowledge. i always though of Spartans having there own branch was because they can work with all the branch's on a needs bases and shouldn't be slowed down by authority measuring officers that needed help rapidly. hence why the sparten was sent in the first place

[@kesmeseker9593]

@@death299 Forgive my bad wording. I meant that Spartans sre expected to work in line of NCOs in the topic of leadership. They are not expected to handle more than their own tactical objective. To be honest, spartans don't really give orders to other UNSC assets in a tactical sense anyway, no matter their rank they are pretty detached from the rank structure. Its more like their place in the UNSC rather than full blown responsibilities of that rank with some exceptions like Kurt who was literally press ganged to be the CO of the Spartan-III program. And spartans mind is best used in the thick of the battlefield fomplimenting other abilities, in strstegic theater they lose their edge compared to unaugmented officers.

[@Zimzilla99]

The Spartan branch feels like a war to de militarize the universe. The Spartans being under the normal services felt like a more realistic implication of a special forces branch. Now that the Spartans are more separate from the unsc as a whole and making more like super heroes rather than highly trained soldiers. And it’s odd considering the 4s are pulled from different branches. They would work so much better staying within their branches and cultures. The branch seems like they have created a kind of super warrior class rather like something out of 40k but without the aesthetic and culture that comes with that behavior

[@DetectiveLance]

It's a political maneuver by the new head of Spartan Operations, wanting to make the Spartans completely unaffected by any fuck up by the Navy or Marines, leaving the Spartans as separate and humanity's shiny heroes. It's a short term gain for long term consequences we're not going to see for another generation.

[@Zimzilla99]

@@DetectiveLance in a way have. The Spartans couldn’t stop Cortana and the banished were able to hunt Spartans without abandon

[@DetectiveLance]

@@Zimzilla99 I was talking about their inevitable failure to avoid becoming more entangled in politics, but that's a very fair point.

[@johncampanella622]

"This speech has melodrama, etc." That's how you gotta talk to these people at large. Especially in the Halo universe. Spartan 3z for example were created bc ONI wanted something they couldn't control in the Spartan 2s. They're separated PRECISELY bc the other elements ARE MELODRAMATIC. They will use Spartans as tools coming from military/political aspirations and not what security needs. Marines might not know how best to deploy ODSTs, etc. So does it make sense? If you only follow the model and structure of say, Navy Seals, or Army Rangers. But Delta Force? Once you're beyond even that spec ops level, you become your own family. The CIA also has their own wing of some of these forces. There's also political not just logistical and even practical reasons for why the Spartans would be their own branch. Spartans can also be effective as a compliment or attachment to other groups. I don't agree with the argument of this video. Not being a fanboy. This is coming more from my time spent with military life, politics and just my imagination. I was a supply specialist in a ranger battalion and an airborne MP unit. The reason the Spartan branch is its own branch, is bc of the political forces in the Halo universe. Again,also practicality and logistical.

[@xyreniaofcthrayn1195]

@@johncampanella622 spartans were originally created as a insurrectionest task force never actually being a part of the military even though they did progress through the military naval ranks but spartan 3s onwards are less illegal and more like cheap knockoffs as 3s onwards are vastly undertrained when compared to spartan 2s like the chief despite having nearly identical augmentations and technically Spartans are immediately of admiral status despite their actual rank they earned and an ensign depending on what the vessel needs.

[@TheArklyte]

Bungie: and they'll be massive. Like 210+cm tall! Also Bungie: designs all equipment and vehicles in the game for Spartan model size, then forces 170cm humans into weird poses to use all that.

[@DarthNicky]

this is also probably why there are maybe a total of 3 human characters below 180 cm

[@TrueRetroflection]

The Magnum comes to mind. It’s comically large for regular hands

[@alexfrost2799]

Yeah, that part makes no sense from a realistic perspective. When designing equipment for a military, you always standardize it to the _lowest_ common denominator, not the highest. If anything, creating a separate Spartan branch makes more sense in this case so they can get their own specialized equipment and weapons, ones that take their size into account

[@TheArklyte]

@@TrueRetroflection and does damage unlike mainline service rifle of UNSC:D

[@nutyyyy]

@@alexfrost2799 It's honestly baffling that they don't. Spartans could easily be equipped with much heavier weaponry that would be difficult for a normal person to operate. Recoil is not where near as much as an issue for a super human. If anything they should have heavier weapons like Space Marines in 40k

[@kumayasei]

I guess it depends on how independant it actually is. There are many countries that have a joint command for Special Operations, that standardised training, tactics etc, but then in the actual hierarchy, the SpecOps are still under the High Command of each of the three branches of the military.

[@death299]

specops are under the command of their individual branches yes, but when ordered by SOCOM to take assets and fight on another field entirely they're not allowed to say no if the army wants to use seals and the navy says no but socom says yes, you'll end up court martialed for not showing up, and your superior will end up losing his job if he's lucky spartans are appreantly a force that changes the course of every fight they take part in, realistically it makes sense to spin them off into a branch that's not answering to any other branch but has a primary role of answering the call of those other branches and picking and choosing the battles they join since they're small in number and having them fight in some backwater isn't exactly a great use of the tool

[@Grizabeebles]

I remember hearing somewhere that when Russian officers are given command of a theatre of battle, they have direct control of all assets from all branches. Putting Spartans in their own branch effectively makes them pure strategic assets answerable only to the UNSC equivalent of the Joint Chiefs of Staff while giving them the ability to requisition supplementary assets from other services as needed.

[@inkedseahear]

I guess the question is are there Spartan janitors? Spartan desk jokies? Spartan cooks? A entire "branch" made of nothing but combat assets that is reliant on other branches for everything from food to recruitment to transportation is by all means, completely meaningless as a separate branch.

[@death299]

@@inkedseahear deck jocky* I'm guessing you've never been on board a ship, military vessels do not have "janitors", part of your job as a crewman/soldier is to clean You have dedicated chefs, but not cleaning staff. The Spartans do have their own ships, as a special forces unit they've ALWAYS been dependent on outside recruitment, just like a navy is reliant on outside recruitment As is food, do you know the difference between shipping food to an army vs navy branch? There's literally not one Adding that it needs to be sent to a spartan base instead doesn't "add" any other logistical challenge As for cooks, maybe...maybe not, but given Spartans like SF units irl are expected to be self sufficient on everything, they likely all know how to cook, and due to their augments need to eat vastly less to gain the same amount of nutrients and can survive on nearly anything They're not nearly as picky, in large part because they're extremely conditioned to fighting rather than comforts, they are made and trained to live in hell for the rest of their lives The things that effect them are things that can't be fixed by morale boosters, they're loss and being effectively made to retire/be obsolete

[@spongmongler6760]

@@death299 you tried to be all smart and 'manly intelligence' yet you can't spell affect

[@g.f.martianshipyards9328]

"Spartans are what will see us through the darkness" might not be a good argument, however "Spartans are no longer assets of ONI" is a REALLY good one considering how... problematic ONI tends to be.

[@martinhubinette2254]

This is probably the best excuse for a spartan branch. Mjolnir logistics and funding is potentially another one. Gen 1 Mjolnir cost as much as a starship, gen 2 is a lot cheaper but still expensive. Regular Navy brass might want more ships over more mjolnir.

[@galahad3195]

That alone justifies it. Better to have the hyper-lethal supersoldiers be an independent branch than the personal assassins of Space CIA.

[@SOMEGUY7893]

It's the UNSC itself not just ONI, remember the Spartans were originally created with the full knowledge and okay of the UNSC command to suppress Human independence movements.

[@fabrikator-generalakhilley6896]

@@SOMEGUY7893 Just like the ancient spartans! Good thing they can't rape in power-armour?

[@thefoxamongwolves9843]

my headcannon now that this was some politics game to get control away from ONI

[@thelimesheep4324]

So we have a ‘makes no sense’ video. Does this mean we will get a ‘reimagined video’ as well?

[@ummdustry5718]

I mean, probably not? It would just be "spartans are integrated into the army, navy and airforce. "

[@NCRVeteranRanger]

@@ummdustry5718 Maybe they’d rework the Spartan 4s themselves as well, sort of like the KZbinr known as Installation00’s rework of the Spartan 4’s / Fan idea of a Spartan 5’s.

[@Jedi_Spartan]

2:42 An extreme example in sci-fi being when the Jedi sent most clone commandos onto the frontlines on Geonosis and around half of the 10,000 Commandos produced by the Kaminoans got wiped out.

[@rexlumontad5644]

Wow, the Jedi really suck at being leaders of an army

[@R3DX_EXE]

@@rexlumontad5644 Different times, different approaches Clone Wars Jedi were more of a policing branch since they had 1000 years of peace so they would suck at army leading. The Old Republic Jedi weren't, they had wars upon wars upon wars that honed their skills, both in army related and force abilities.

[@rexlumontad5644]

@@R3DX_EXE That's a fair point.

[@Jedi_Spartan]

@@R3DX_EXE however there were still questionable tactics, Jace Malcom and the troopers from the Hope trailer giving up the High Ground to engage SITH WARRIORS in close quarters must have been a strategy influenced by the Jedi...

[@John-fk2ky]

Citation please. I can't find a SINGLE mention of that unless it's something new and stupid that DIsney created. The commandos I know of were small, elite teams, and they were NOT on the front line except when forced to due to not being able to make a safer insertion into the area of operations. Go play "Republic Commando" then try one of the Battlefront games (I recommend the older ones). Completely different ways of handling things.

[@damienwhisenant9115]

"Think of the Spartans like if the UNSC developed a super special new bomber." "your mistake is viewing Spartans as military hardware. My Spartans are humanity's next step, our destination as a species. Do not underestimate them."

[@damienwhisenant9115]

@@exilestudios9546 Thank you.

[@TheGahta]

Your=/=You´re (you are)

[@kellerweskier7214]

it is true that each branch has its own dedicated systems. A bit ago, the Marines wanted a new M1A2 upgrade, this was the M1A2 SEP v3. and then the Army wanted an upgrade, but wanted much better shit, that was named the M1A2 SEP v4, renamed to M1A2C and D to designate that they are branch different. Then the marines got rid of their MBTs. scrapping the C and D designators per branch. The USAF had a space command all on its own, then was ripped out to make the USSC. wile, treding into a new field or new step in how things work could easily mean to reform and remake thing, but it doesnt mean that toes wont be stepped on as it could be done by someone else or was by someone else. Along with the USSC taking control of space related systems and handling, they also were given control of ICBM systems. which, like the spartans, make or break the balance of power.

[@ironstarofmordian7098]

@@kellerweskier7214 nor really. Airforce is still in charge of one of the 3 aspects of the nuclear triad and the navy has submarine launched ballistic missiles. Also. Space Force has no conventional combatant force.

[@Beretta249]

That's the kind of quote that raises my eyebrows. "...humanity's next step, our destination as a species." Excuse me, but _what?_ Who gets to make that call? What does that actually mean? An elite caste of eternal soldiers forever fighting the foe of the moment? Is there such a thing as Spartanism that presents a body of thought about a whole life or are we just going to be stoic ogres in armor sitting around waiting for our next battle? Also "my Spartans?" If they're "humanity's next step" does that defacto assume your dominance? The actual Spartans didn't achieve historically much compared to the weak, irresolute Greek thinkers they despised. Halo's Spartans as a human ideal appear barely less incoherent given the general absence of _humanity_ to them. If nothing else if the Spartan Sex Life isn't robust and frequent "humanity's next step" will be into extinction by it's own militaristic idiocy. Of course I don't have much context to that quote, but judging from the clip in this production it isn't being made by some ranting megalomaniac facing his comeuppance from a volcano lair and instead is being delivered as point-blank truth during some military affair. This is some otherwise blase` bureaucrat plaining stating "how it's going to be" and "how it's going to be" sounds a lot like a elite military fascist movement.

[@ravager2-636]

ONI Ensign: Mac rounds in atmosphere, for one Canadian national..? We have plenty of Other options ma’am.. ONI Admiral: This will send a message, you may fire when ready..

[@zagreus1249]

XD

[@alaskamark4562]

On one hand ONI are d1cks, on the other it's a Canadian national, can't tolerate those now can we? Fire away!

[@michaelyoung7261]

“The Dawn Beyond” would make for a good ship name considering the other names of ships (pillar of autumn comes to mind)

[@brokenshadow549080]

Wouldn't the UNSC Forward Unto Dawn technically have the same meaning?

[@chackmete9942]

@@brokenshadow549080 Yeah, something like the UNSC To go Beyond, that sounds pretty Halo-esque, and it doesn't sound redundant what with another ship having a nearly identical name.

[@aregulargamer1]

UNSC "Two For Flinching" is the most amazing ship name I've ever seen.

[@teargass1849]

In the US we have a quasi branch called SOCOM (Special Opperations Command) that does the same thing the spartan branch does in Halo, and the opperational and logistical benifits from doing so has been of great benifit to us, makes sense for halo too.

[@LENZ5369]

It's not a 'branch', it's a Joint Command -the SF units from the branches are assigned to SOCOM for coordination and field command. The respective branches still select, train and equip their own units. SOCOM training and equipment are addons on top of that.

[@nicholaswalsh4462]

But SOCOM isn't a branch by itself, rather being an overarching control organ for Navy, Army, Air Force, and Marine Corps special forces. Spartan Operations is an independent branch.

[@masterthiefesq2440]

Except that SOCOM is a combination of units from different services - US Army Special Forces & Rangers, US Navy SEALS, US Marine Corps Raiders, US Air Force Special Operations Wings. These forces fall under SOCOM's operational command (SOCOM is a functional command, similar to Strategic Command for nuclear weapons or Transportation Command for airlift/sealift/rail), but the individual services are responsible for the training, equipment, and back-end support for their own units. A true special operations branch would be more akin to the Soviet Union's KGB, which was its own branch - one entire separate from the rest of the Soviet military - with very unique roles across all domains, and more prestige and resources to boot.

[@matthewneuendorf5763]

My impression, with no evidence to back it up, is that the intent is to transition over time to a fully Spartan combat soldier deployment, with non-Spartans only filling support, second-line, or crew roles that don't require or really benefit from the Spartan enhancements. Splitting them off from whichever services they originated from and consolidating them into a new branch lays that groundwork. It's not for immediate utility, it's for twenty years down the line when Spartan Ops are the dominant branch for armed personnel deployment.

[@FunkyDouch3000]

it still doesn't make sense to only have one branch though. if the plan really is to replace all front line combat personell with Spartans, why not implement Spartans into the various armed branches and slowly have them take over combat duties that way, instead of this weird mess of a new Spartan branch with all sorts of backgrounds, specialties and preferences. The new Spartans are meant to number in the hundreds of thousands. these individuals are pulled from all the various branches of the UNSC military. how is putting them all in the same ball of "Spartan Operations" going to help with anything? all it does is create a mess that is way harder for everyone to work with, including the Spartans themselves. Having the Spartan IIs be their own seperate entity makes sense, this does not.

[@nick-314]

@FunkyDouch3000 yeah, branching them out adds to many steps to what should be a singularly minded combat force. Imagine if the UNSC armrored divisions decided to split off, it just adds to many steps where support to another unit should be as seemless as possible.

[@LightAndDarkMdness02]

@@FunkyDouch3000 There aren't hundreds of thousands of Spartan IVs. There are a lot more of them than previous generations, but they're still a very small number. Think like around five thousand or less. There were only about five hundred Spartan IVs during the time of Halo 4 and though it is likely many more were trained, no where near that hundreds of thousands number. Also, all Spartans aren't in Spartan Operations. The Spartan II and Spartan III programs with their collective 300+ living Spartans are still under Naval Special Weapons, with Cat-2 Spartan IIIs often under the supervision of the Army as we see in Halo: Reach. ONI also has special teams of Spartan IVs/IIIs that operate outside the Spartan Branch, such as Headhunters, Deep Space Recon, and other such units.

[@FunkyDouch3000]

@@LightAndDarkMdness02 the hundreds of thousands is a number I got from the previous Templin Institute video on Halo's Spartan Operations. I assume the idea is to rapidly expand the Spartan IV program to encompass far more recruits in the near future, thus setting the stage for these developments. If the number was smaller, there is an argument to be made for an independent unit, but that would be more in line with a traditional special forces unit.

[@LightAndDarkMdness02]

@@FunkyDouch3000 Keep in mind that a Spartan is equivalent to the battle power of a fully outfitted UNSC battleship. They aren't even remotely similar to Navy Seals or other such groups outside of their initial framework when only about 30-40 of them existed. They are all geniuses with Einstein levels of IQ, Amazing leadership qualities, the best training that is humanly possible, the best genetics, and that's all before you factor in their augmentations and armor which make them truly super human. Spartans aren't just good at shooting and killing things. They're technicians, pilots, logistics managers, etc and most of the time they are all of these things in one. The argument for a Spartan Branch is that the Spartan is an incredibly valuable asset that is extremely limited in number. The Spartans should be able to choose where they are deployed so the Army can't force them to go defend a backwater planet, and ONI can't waste them on suicide missions like they did with the vast majority of the Spartan IIIs. The other reason the Spartan Branch exists is to be a propaganda outlet for the vastly unpopular UNSC and UEG, which are basically Big Brother from 1984 and were given near infinite power over their people during the Human-Covenant War. Civilians like Spartans and worship them and their myth-like status, so the UNSC uses that to their advantage. Keeping the spotlight on the Spartan IV program also allows ONI and other branches of the UNSC to use the most skilled Spartans (Spartan IIs and Spartan IIIs) however they wish without having to worry about media coverage.

[@masterthiefesq2440]

If we're going to lean into the melodrama over military sense (as Halo seems wont to do), having Spartans be their own separate branch makes sense for another reason. For all their successes, first against the insurrections and then against the Covenant, the Spartans were always treated as tools or weapons instead of soldiers. Their humanity was denied and their agency constrained in a way that no other service's members were. Spartans were tactical and operational geniuses, but they had no voice at the strategic level. More than any other force in the UNSC, quoth Tennyson, "theirs not to make reply, theirs not to reason why, theirs but to do and die." And the burden of the UNSC's strategic mistakes fell disproportionately on their MJOLNIR-armored shoulders, and Ghanem and the other SPARTAN-II's probably considered that unjust. With the fracturing of the Covenant, the massive expansion of the Spartans through the SPARTAN-IV program, and the end of the cloak-and-dagger brutality that made the SPARTAN-IIs due to public outrage, any practical reasons for treating Spartans as "less than" human disappeared too. From this perspective, making Spartans an independent branch was first and foremost about making sure if they were going to be sent "to do and die," they would at least have someone in the room with the authority to question the other UNSC branches, and even to tell them that they were wrong. The bureaucratics and logistics were to be worked out later. I imagine that in practice Spartan Ops has a similar role to the UNSC Navy (and Marines) as the IRL US Marine Corps does to the US Navy - a partner service, but not literally a part, separate chains of command but sharing a common expeditionary mission and logistics chain, and freely sharing personnel and capabilities to get the mission done.

[@Helljumper_Fanatic]

I like the way you said this, it also gives the Spartans a little more freedom on how they manage themselves. We can only imagine how different life must be as a Spartan given the enhanced senses and high intensity.

[@badlydrawnbelle4955]

To add to this, if you read into the extended lore, you'd see how SPARTAN-III's were grossly mismanaged and I had a chuckle at the 'gross misallocation of available resources' claim Col. Holland refuted in Reach. Because we all know Operation: TORPEDO was such a grand success and totally didn't wipe out an entire company's worth of SPARTAN-III units. I could imagine Holland shoving their noses in that particular turd when they wanted to deny him SPARTAN assets for the Winter Contingency. I presume these events will have been declassified by the time the Infinity incident happened and this is one of the many reasons as to why they wanted some form of autonomy.

[@friktogurg9242]

@@badlydrawnbelle4955 ONI thought it was a success which BS, as you said, what a waste of valuable resource. Each company was about 300, how the hell do you waste 300 commando lives?

[@badlydrawnbelle4955]

@@friktogurg9242 ONI: This is a waste. Holland: Oh I'm sorry do I hear Operation: TORPEDO there in the distance? ONI: ...

[@ausaskar]

Torpedo wasn't a waste, just like all the Navy's Pyrrhic Victories in the Outer Colonies weren't a waste. Lives needed to be traded for time. The 300 Spartan IIIs were an acceptable price to put a logistical hub out of commission and delay the Covenant's advance for however many months.

[@SwiftGundam]

Its a good argument. Don't really wanna dispute it. But I think of how it was originally and I can't say I like the Spartans being under the 'ownership' of ONI post-war. They were the ones who 'recruited' the Spartans, trained them, augmented them and gave them their iconic armor. All that and more makes them ONI assets which is not a calming thought. Throughout the war, Spartans have gain an mythical reputation and it was a Spartan would was instrumental in saving humanity. Musa, being a washout Spartan, capitalized on all that to make this push and the Infinity Incident as a means to seal the deal. There was clearly a whole lot going through his head and I would love to gain details on it all.

[@smithingbear7522]

A Spartan washout is also the current head of ONI so I'm not sure how well that argument really holds up. Especially because the Spartans will still do ONIs dirty work.

[@dylandarnell3657]

@@smithingbear7522 They're fine doing ONI's dirty work. They're good at it. They just don't want to be taking orders from people who consider them expendable.

[@smithingbear7522]

@@dylandarnell3657 A Spartan 2 Washout is the Commanding Officer of ONI. If they want to be treated well, she's the person who can ensure that. If their issue was how they were viewed as expendable, they would have left the military entirely. Hell the Spartan 3s were made to be expendable. Trading lives for time.

[@harrisonlee9585]

It's its own "branch" in the same way that the Phoenix Program in the Vietnam War was its own thing by the end.

[@Orcawhale1]

Except the Phoenix program was still controlled by CIA. But huge respect for knowing about it.

[@808INFantry11X]

Yeah the Phoenix program was still operated and budgeted out of the CIA but Mikitary provided operational assets to its ranks so it really wasn't a self contained operation.

[@vallahdsacretor4839]

Personally I find the Spartans being a separate branch to be relatively beneficial for one major reason: No singular branch can try claiming Spartans that came from those branches. When it comes to inner military politics, many branches will try to keep their claims on soldiers unless they're explicitly moved to other branches. Having the Spartans be classified as Army, Navy, or Marine while being expected to operate as a Spartan in special operations could make conflicts. I can't imagine an Admiral isn't going to want a group of Spartans at a high ranking ceremony, and will try to pull as many Spartans as they need for the occasion, regardless of if those Spartans could be put to better use elsewhere, all because they are still under his command.

[@zidniafifamani2378]

It's looks like anti Horus Heresy measure honestly, makes them independent from each other but interdependence.

[@bobybimberbod8500]

Or you could have Spartans in every branch and if someone qualifies to be a spartan they get the augmentations, gear, and training then serve in the same role as before but better because they're a spartan alongside other spartans.

[@jw589]

Personally I'd compare Spartan Ops to something akin to CIA 'special operations' of sorts - almost a black books operation but not quite Not limited by the other branches of the military, at arms length - able to conduct their own ops but still able to assist other branches as needed Another comparison may be the Spectres of the Mass effect universe as a fictional comparator - although I see this comparison as more tenuous

[@jeremytodd8745]

Or the Jedi from Sta Wars

[@mrsniffles5417]

CIA SpecOps is largely hiring local muscle or appropriating other special forces for low insensity raids and sabotage in service of espionage. The spectres are an elite peace keeping/law enforcement unit doing as much investigation as fighting. I don't think the Spartans fit these molds as they are explicitly an elite military force which is sent into the most intense/important Battlefields. The comparison to Spetznaz or the SAS seems more apt.

[@jw589]

@@mrsniffles5417 Ah you are quite right, that's a good point

[@Mercwithamouth101]

@@mrsniffles5417 The CIA have their own Special Forces, the SAC/SOG (Special Operations Group) who do direct action missions such as raids, ambushes, sabotage, targeted killings and unconventional warfare. They're even like Spartan Branch where they recruit from other Special forces units.

[@ironstarofmordian7098]

@@Mercwithamouth101 ambushes are more conventional force work but yeah.

[@owenparris7490]

Yay! It's time for another episode of "Marc Critiquing Things I Think Are Cool"

[@owenparris7490]

@@Commodore22345 I know, it was half a joke lol.

[@dudesalotofstuff]

I agree that the branch designation doesn't make sense in an organizational sense. I've seen SOCOM get brought up already and I think that would be the type of structure that would make the most sense. I feel like a solid retcon for the lore would be to indicate that calling it Spartan Branch was a propaganda tool.

[@spartan117zm]

Unfortunately 343 are too arrogant to retconn their garbage lore, much like Disney with the Sequels; they had their chance to break away, and instead went head first further.

[@jameson1239]

I could see them functioning like the CIA they kind of do their own thing but are able to assist and request assistance from branches of the military

[@pandanator6681]

@@spartan117zm Completely agreed, dude. It's not even just that the Spartans have their own branch now, but they don't even have ranks anymore. How fucking retarded is that? All of them, including Palmer (who for some insane reason carries the *informal* title of Commander), have the rank of "Spartan". How tf would that even work in practice? Halo's military used to feel pretty accurate and grounded, but the fucking clowns at 343 are too used to writing superhero trash, man.

[@808INFantry11X]

@@jameson1239 well honestly the real world version of if any comparison the Spartans would fall under JSOC joint Special Operations command this operate Army units like SFODD "DELTA FORCE", ISA intelligence Support activity, 75th Ranger regimental reconnaissance company, USN DEVGRU "SEAL TEAM 6", USAF 24YH Special Tactics Squadron and elements of the US Army SOAR Special Operations Aviation Regiment.

[@R0sewood]

What if in part the Spartans being their own branch is a feature, not a bug. Consider the Horus Heresy from the Warhammer 40k universe. Pre-heresy the Imperial Army and Navy were one combine branch. They were split to limit the power of any individual group to go rogue and conduct war. Now consider Spartans, superhuman in almost every way. Perhaps they were spun into their own branch not only so they could command themselves but also to help prevent one or a group of charismatic Spartans from rising the ranks and then revolting against the government and military. Similar instances of these exist in the Halo universe with the Arbiter and Atriox. This way, they command no ships, they have no ground assets or forces except those supplied to them by other branches. Indeed, they likely have to have their own tech developed for them. They have the independence they need to operate but the dependence to keep them in line and manageable.

[@zidniafifamani2378]

I mean, one battalion of spartan is basically uniquely shaped big fleet of naval warship on its own considering MJOLNIR alone cost as much as an UNSC Destroyer.

[@alexfrost2799]

Good observation on how the separation of branches is similar in mindset to how the Imperials conduct warfare. It does make different branches have a harder time cooperating at times, but it’s preferable to any potential risk of large-scale rebellion. We’ve already seen that there have been several instances of UNSC defectors, one of which was responsible for the Infinity being nearly captured. Another was the reason the Rookie was killed. People tend to call the Imperial military unwieldy, unrealistic, or impractical, but maybe 40k is on to something…

[@inkedseahear]

Given the nature of Spartans being assymetircal warfare, once they start revolting some bucreatic nonsense is not going to stop them. Shown when Blue Team went AWOL, they can simply grab any ship with a slipsapce drive, barge into any facility, use any weapon.

[@jameson1239]

I don’t really think separating the Spartans into their own branch would help much given how powerful Spartans are on their own and being highly trained in asymmetrical warfare the only cost effective way to stop a spartan is another spartan separating them into their own branch decreases the oversight and makes it more likely for a rouge element to not be caught

[@melodysdanceoff]

@@jameson1239 I wonder why no one has brought up the political risk of having a whole army of super soldiers with no way to stop them if they decide that they can run society better than the people in charge? Like for real this reason alone is why having lots of Spartans is stupid. Besides what do they do with these super soldiers when they retire and return to normal civilian life? Spousal abuse amongst veterans is higher than the general population. Now what happens if they have super human strength? How does the police force try and stop a super human if they are on a rampage? There are lots of ethical issues that should be explored.

[@MrMarinus18]

3:05 Also special forces units usually need to work with a main force. Like paratroopers are useless without an immediate follow up assault.

[@stynkus]

The problem, as always with these kinds of things, is that the people writing for the game don't really understand how these things work. They always go first with the 'this looks/sounds cool' factor instead of the 'does this make any sense' factor...

[@HarleyHerbert]

To add to this, what makes it worse is that it's also too common with stories like this that when the original creators are no longer the ones making the series the new owners or creators will give the task of writing the story and adding to the lore to people who are either terrible at writing, don't care about the existing story and would prefer to just write whatever they think is "better", prioritise putting their own agenda into the story, or just simply haven't even bothered learning what the existing story is before trying to add to it. Usually all of the above. This plus what you've said has been how so many great stories franchises have turned out

[@darthskarr8975]

Weird. From the games it seemed as if the Spartans were, up until the end of the Human/Covenant War, an independent special forces branch that owed them being an independent branch to the fact they were meant to be a secret - and were a branch related to and under the supervision of ONI, whom would monitor and assign various Spartan Units to various UNSC military branches or SpecOps/Black Ops assignments, with the common denominator (if I'm using the phrase correctly) being that the Spartans received their orders either from ONI or the highest ranking Naval Officer in the region they were deployed to. After the Human/Covenant War the need for secrecy was dropped and the Spartan branch was officially made public and properly integrated into the UNSC military, whilst ONI was given direct command over them as the people the Spartans report to, whom would still be assigned to different UNSC branches/operations by ONI, but with the caveat now that ONI's orders and directives supersedes those given by the highest ranking officers of those other branches the Spartans were assigned to, if any conflicting commands were to be given by them. This is what I got just from playing the games and reading the Initiation/Escalation comic series. During the war, the Navy called the shots, ONI kept tabs on them. After the war, ONI called the shots and their word superseded everyone elses. This apparent fact that the Spartans were made an autonomous branch of the UNSC military without apparently being monitored, supervised, or even being directed and given assignments by another branch, let alone ONI, is new information and brings numerous questions to mind, like how do you even deploy them now or who even is calling the shots for them anymore?? Edit: grammar

[@alaskamark4562]

Yeah, before the Spartans were under the command of whichever branch they were assigned to and that was the end of it. Master Chief answered to Captain Keyes in the Navy and Noble answered to Colonel Holland in the Army and so forth. Now Spartans all sort of operate out of the Infinity which is under the command of Captain Lasky but then you have situations like Osman giving him orders to execute Halsey, a civilian; this is a convoluted command structure, Lasky is in command of this military operation on Requiem so he should have authority over all his personnel and assets. Having shady ONI creeps giving him and his Spartans assassination orders in the middle of an ongoing battle is stupid.

[@waffledragon9931]

@@alaskamark4562 If I remember correctly, Osman is the head of ONI and thus is part of the UNSC Security Committee which is a governing body in UNSC High Command. Thus, she "should" have the authority to give him such an order. With that said, Lasky is beholden to UNSC High command which she is a part of.

[@alaskamark4562]

WaffleDragon. Huh, the UNSC has a really weird command structure. High Command is supposed to be the leading command group in the military but then where does the Security Council fit into that? Also it's odd that the Office of "NAVAL" Intelligence would get their own seat on the Security Council, aren't they officially supposed to be a part of the Navy? Shouldn't Lasky be answering to Lord Hood? Why is he taking orders directly from an intelligence officer? ONI and the new Spartan branch both seem poorly thought out. Seems to me like the Spartan branch are treated like they're a collection of henchmen at ONI's beck and call.

[@BlackKaiserDrake]

@@alaskamark4562 Osman is also an O10 (Lasky is O6) and is the CINCONI, that gives her a hell of a lot of power. The only person who can really tell her to fuck off is Hood.

[@SpartanMDC113]

I've always seen the Spartan Branch creation as the UNSC experimenting with the idea of Spartans replacing baseline marines and ODSTs over a long period of time. As tech and gene advancements are made the process becomes cheaper and ultimately every human soldier will have Spartan armor, training, and physiology

[@jobt1999]

my man is playing both sides to always come on top

[@TheNinjaMarmot]

Yeah, but isn't the modern military of our era moving towards smaller specialised forces? Spartan branch would be like any special branch that can be appended to any other branch. Their independence made them stronger. You are after all as strong as your weakest link. And as a close knit unit made them a weapon/tool which can be used on special missions just like you would to fire a missile at a bunker. You wouldn't allow one major branch missiles but not the other branch.

[@inkedseahear]

That is a pretty one-sided view on the natural of war, especially given the context of the Human-Covenant War. Despite the end of the war comes to the actions of a single Spartan, the relatively double digits Spartan never would have stop anything than a handful of legions of Covenant troops. The war was "won" through the death and sacrifice of millions if not billions of servicemen and civilians. A "smaller specialized force" only functions in the small-scaled blooding years but quickly falls apart at any coherent, organized force. Just as the Created and Banished show.

[@FallenEpic]

Counterpoint: The teenage boys I teach at work tell me it's very cool.

[@kirby7294]

One of the funniest things I've seen is in Spartan Ops in Halo 4. When you meet your handler and he's in full Mjolnir armor, but sat at a desk running Operations. It's a complete waste of resources for something a Naval Officer on the Infinity could handle, so that he coild be out there. Why equip Spartans with millions of dollars in tech just to sit them down at a desk and coordinate troops. Having their own branch is a mistake.

[@petersparacino6445]

I think an argument could be made that the way spartans are best used is different enough from the way conventional troops or even human special forces are used to warrent their own branch to focus on developing unique spartan doctrine. They aren't human in any previous sense of the word and I think a more apt comparison to their incorporation into the unsc would be the advent of planes to warfare than a specific kind of plane being invented.

[@Kilo_Alpha_Delta]

I disagree, because the same goal can be accomplished by ensuring that only Spartans can command Spartan units, or the Spartan IV Program as whole. But segregating them is a logistical nightmare (and it's worth noting that logistics are the single most important aspect of warfare) because now they are completely reliant on the willful cooperation of other branches to do anything meaningful. The Spartan Branch doesn't have ships, vehicles, technicians, mechanics, admin staff, supply officers, transports, or any other of the million pieces necessary to actually function in a battle or to maintain battle readiness outside of it. So either you have to reinvent the wheel and transfer tons of personnel and materiel to them to get them started, or you just have them borrow off the already existing extensive, experienced infrastructure within the Navy that they used for the last several decades without issue. Plus, back when the Navy owned Spartans, they would do everything they could to give them the equipment and intelligence necessary to complete their missions because they were looking after their own. Now? Now Spartans have to hope that they can convince a Navy admiral to give them a ride on one of their ships or the Spartans are stuck with their asses on the ground doing nothing. They are trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist and in so doing, breaking everything worse than it ever was. The Spartans should always have remained a special detachment of the Navy, or as it has expanded in size and scope, a sub-branch under the Navy (like the USMC for example). It should never have been made a completely independent branch and is significantly weaker for it.

[@petersparacino6445]

@@Kilo_Alpha_Delta you say that like there is any lore examples of interservivce rivalries in the usnc leading to the denial of vital cooperation. What we see is a highly cooperative and competent military in every meaningful sense. And spartan ncos have nothing to do with spartan doctrine. Doctrine is formed at the top levels of a military. Thats why generals exist. The spartan supersoldier changes the very nature of how war is fought for humanity. How long units can fight, what vehicles they can pilot, where they can fight etc. Humans have a built in limit and spartans clearly transcend those limits. In order to pioneer spartan tactics, they need to be separated from other units. Like the jump with tanks from infantry support to separate units. If you disperse spartans throughout the unsc, it becomes much harder to generate data and there is less incentive to use them in non traditional ways. History shows us time and again that innovating the way in which wars are fought often leads to the greatest edge in combat. The roman manipules, mongol organization and horse tactics, napoleon's corps system, to name just a few examples. As for logistics, again, there is no reason to say that spartans being a separate branch makes logistics more difficult. USSOCOM relies on logistical support from the air force, navy and army. The marines rely heavily on the navy's logistics and even the army's at times, and yet they get their supplies. This isn't space russia, this is a competent, fully mobilized humanity with decades of fighting and logistical experience in an innumerable number of types of combat and combat environments.

[@m1863m]

I agree

[@LightAndDarkMdness02]

@@Kilo_Alpha_Delta I mostly agree here but you have to realize that the standard for Spartans is genius level IQ demi-gods who can take an entire army of vastly superior aliens with them in any given engagement. A Spartan by themselves is worth an entire fleet in the Halo universe. They're trained to be nearly perfect in every regard, at least the Spartan IIs and IIIs. Spartans that get wounded severely and can't be Spartans anymore are often placed in logistical positions, or in other roles such as technicians, etc because the training of a Spartan typically covers it all. If you removed the augmentations, Spartans would still be the cream of the crop with Einstein level IQ. So, basically, you don't need to worry about logistics for the most part because Spartans can and will do it all themselves. You can put a Spartan on a well-fortified and hostile alien planet by himself with no way off, with no back up, and he will 99.9% of the time complete whatever mission he is given. He might not live to fight another day, but he'll complete whatever he was assigned to do. Spartans really don't need the help of other branches. Then there is the political angle. The UNSC uses modern Spartans as propaganda tools more than actual military assets. The really skilled Spartans, such as the remaining Spartan IIs, Spartan IIIs, etc are all under the jurisdiction of whatever branch they were originally assigned to. Spartan IVs are the visible face of the program while the really valuable Spartans take care of the real shit without a media spotlight on their activities. That isn't to say Spartan IVs aren't incredibly useful combat assets, it's just that pre-Halo 5 the UNSC was at its peak; possessing greater power and technology than ever before, with almost all of their enemies broken and rendered impotent for the most part. The Spartan Branch was born out of hubris and the belief humanity would never be on the back foot ever again.

[@matthalo871]

Well at least no one from oin is sending them on it using them massacre a rebel cell that really never worked at stopping rebellion not even the covenant did that.

[@misterballistics]

I concur. I don't think the Spartans provide enough of a service to warrant a separate branch. Yes, they're excellent special forces, but that doesn't warrant being a separate service. They'll still need to use the Navy to get where they're going, they still need the Army and Marine Corps to conduct meaningful frontline operations, which is where all of their recruits will be procured from anyway. They will have to have a separate budget that needs to be approved, a separate procurement chain, etc. They really are operationally best served by being integrated into the Navy in my opinion.

[@RAD1111able]

It would probably make more sense, aren't Marines like,under Navy jurisdiction when they're on board Navy vessels and under their own when on shore? It makes sense given the context,because the Marines don't have to travel everywhere by sea,meanwhile Spartans need the Navy for Interstellar deployment so it would simplify things if they were under Navy command

[@alaskamark4562]

It'd make the most sense for each branch to have their own Spartan groups under their command. Blue team and the others in the Navy going out on ships and conducting expeditionary-type missions usually away from human-controlled space; while the Army has teams like Noble who conduct planetary defense and garrison support for worlds the UNSC already controls; also maybe the UNSC Air Force could have special teams of Spartan fighter pilots kind of like how Noble-6 piloted the Sabres.

[@inkedseahear]

@@RAD1111able I mean in that sense then everything is "under Navy command" for any offensive operations. The USMC and USN have a much deeper relationship than simply "under Navy jurisdiction" when you consider USMC don't have medic but Navy Corpsman which meant any organized marine unit will have at least one sailor in it. I guess the big difference really is "How independent is the Spartan Operations"? Like the US Space Force is a "independent branch" that is "coequal" to the Air Force but reports to the Department of the Air Force and almost all within the US Space Command. Or like you said the USN and USMC's relationship. Being a different branch doesn't mean squat if all your assets are completely under the command of other branches in the field. Which absurdly, given the Spartan Operations is ""exempt"" from listening to FLEETCOM and UNICOM whose duties are coordinating terrestrial operations AND the Unified Special Warfare Command. A giant middle finger to the Army, Air Force, and Marines.

[@friktogurg9242]

@@inkedseahear The only way I see this spartan branch working is if they follow the original plan which is to select individual based on the spartan II and III criteria ( except for age I think, I am sure there are more factors from the original selection to take into account but I am forgetting my halo lore)from the soldiers from different branches, so as to avoid the complete usage of all the best soldiers from each branch. Personally, not that it matters or is related but I would also try to research on ways to make older candidates to be more accepting of the same intensive augmentation process as the II and IIIs.

[@porkupineexe6862]

“What if the Air Force came up with a bomber unlike anything we’ve ever seen before, would it make sense to split them off in to their own branch” Interestingly, that’s originally what had happened with the US Army Airforce. When it began it’s life, the USAF was a smaller branch of the United States Army (because there weren’t enough planes in the world to justify giving them their own service.). Over time though, the nature of air conflict necessitated a split, and that split was caused by the introduction of the strategic bomber. Before this point in time, aircraft fell under either the navy’s jurisdiction (if it were carrier based) or the Army’s jurisdiction because they built the forward airbases. After 1947 though we made the first proper strategic bombers (really more like 42 but whatever, the important part is that until 42 we had been using twin engine aircraft as our strategic bombers) that could deliver nuclear payloads, and those bombers were so different than anything the army or navy had been using to this point they were broken in to a new branch. So yes if the airforce suddenly created hovercraft,,, or a space shuttle: it might make sense to give them their own branch

[@AllisonIsLivid]

This never would've happened in the Marathon timeline.

[@Firnin]

"the UNSC navy probably has something like the US navy SEALs" I always read the spartans as being based on the SEALs, hence why they were navy instead of UNSCMC

[@ambiguumspectatoremespecta9803]

The reasoning for the separation of the Spartan Branch is to give Musa 096 the head of the Spartan IV program more administrative control over the deployment of Spartans (particularly his Spartan IVs). Remember that during the war with the covenant Spartans (3's) were on the regular viewed as expandable assets for high priority objectives by ONI something I am sure Jun A266 was keen to inform Musa when creating the Spartan IV program. It would make sense in that regard that Musa would take steps to ensure that his fellow Spartans would not be expended so readily without exploring other tactical alternatives to a given situation. It also allowed for a steady flow of feedback from deployed Spartans on things such as Armor and training modifications to ensure the highest standards of efficiency on the field.

[@lightspeedvictory]

From what I recall, the Spartan Ops Manual specifically mentions a couple of special operations forces utilized by the UNSC. The one I remember is the Army Rangers which are stay behind units designed to conduct a guerrilla warfare resistance should a colony be captured and occupied by a hostile force

[@wickerbotterthewizard707]

The real reason Spartans have their own branch is so that military contractors (Halo Storefront) can charge ridiculous prices for Spartan equipment. The Navy contractors had better bargaining leverage for acquiring supplies to distribute among the Spartans as deemed necessary by Naval Command. On Reach, suppliers would divert more equipment (Cosmetic Armor Pieces) to Spartans that performed above and beyond the call of duty. In the current state of the Spartan Branch, the only method of acquiring that same equipment is to grease the palms of less than savory arms dealers.

[@neolexiousneolexian6079]

That commander's speech sounds like what a villian says right before they stage a coup and install a military dictatorship.

[@26th_Primarch]

It literally seems like a push to turn Spartans into Spacemarines from Warhammer 40,000...

[@TomTasker]

Asparties, if you will...

[@revolverswitch]

Wasn't that always the case?

[@indyz4329]

“the office of naval intelligence has its own special security force-for… _some_ reason” Loved that lmao, ONI’s always up to something nefarious

[@HEADLESSKROGAN]

One thing I always found really weird was that in halo 4 spartan ops the comms officer on infinity had spartan augmentation and mjolnir armor. Even though his main job appeared to have him out of any sort of combat. Seems like a normal human could be trained to do that job. It's kinda like giving a logistics officer a tank for his daily driver.

[@christopherg2347]

The "Spartan Branch" might be mirroring the US Marine Corp. Marines were originally soldiers on ships, but evolved into their own branch. Also the other groups still having special forces is not unusual. Consider that despite _the Airforce_ being a thing, the Navy and Marines both have their own Airforces.

[@inkedseahear]

Yeah but the Marines adaptive and adapt their structure with all sorts of different units from light infantry to air vehicles but Spartans only have spartans, they don't have any dropship, artillery, tanks, or warthogs. No mechanics to maintain these vehicles, no bucreatics to request supplies, no POG to deliver them.

[@christopherg2347]

@@inkedseahear Who _says_ they have none of those? Because them having dedicated gear/gear variants is the very *purpose* of a seperate branch. Exact source please, not just "I read it somewhere".

[@simonnance]

When you look at military structures, you can learn a lot by how different unit types are deployed and integrated with others: 1. Squad/Platoon level integration - roles that can't be independent and need other unit types present to function, and don't need specialised sustainment/logistics (e.g. Grenadiers, Light machine gunners) 2. Company level - units that need to work very closely in cooperation and will likely deploy together but can be grouped separately (e.g generally limited to homogeneous platoons/squads, HQ units and organic logistics) 3. Battalion level - units that will work in the same area of operations to support each other closely, but potentially separated by some distance, or with flexibility of how specialised sub-units are deployed. This is where specialist weapons teams that need independent logistics start to integrate, like Anti-tank teams, mortars, and specialised units like engineers. 4 - Brigade level - This is where units of very different types start to work together to give combined arms capabilities and may or may not be deployed together across a wide area. Particularly tanks, infantry, entire battalions of specialist weapons teams like Anti-tank, AA and artillery, larger logistics units, and specialised non combat forces like medical units. 5 - Divisional. Larger specialised units, particularly those needing substantial independent logistics or operating independently over a wide area. Heavy artillery and Anti-Air, potentially organic air support (helicopters) and substantial non-combat support units like police, repair units etc. 6 - Theatre level - Specialised divisions or independent battalions that might work together over a theatre of operations. For example airborne troops, high level artillery formations. 7 - Independent branches - Units that operate almost completely independently and only come under shared command at the highest level. Should be units that rarely need to cooperate intimately except for specific support (e.g. navy transporting army troops and supplies, air force providing air support, intelligence sharing). Have almost completely independently logistics, non-combat support, procurement and training programmes. On that basis, I would expect Spartans to mostly operate organisationally as a nominal independent Brigade level unit at its highest level, but in practical terms more as a groups of association of much smaller units of Platoon to to Company size being able to be detached for independent tasks for short periods or be temporarily attached to regular Divisional or Brigade formations as additional specialised support forces, with loaned logistics and non-combat support from whatever units it was embedded with cooperating with most closely. It's the logistics that's the killer here. Spartan forces just don't have the logistical slice needed without relying on regular units, meaning independent operation of larger units is virtually impossible for an extended period.

[@skaboodlydoodle]

I agree completely. When the spartans are their own branch every operation suddenly becomes a joint operation, the success of which relies almost entirely on different branches having flawless coordination and communication with each other at all times. Spartans while incredibly potent in and of themselves, are systemically little more than ground infantry units. They still need every form of supporting elements such as artillery, air support, logistics, intelligence, communications, and even supplementary infantry units to do their job effectively. Suddenly you create this logistical nightmare because the army needs to reallocate artillary units to a certain front but the only units on hand belong to the spartan branch so you have to go through chain of command to get approval to requisition support from a separate branch instead of just sending what you need where you need it when it's needed. What's more is that support units within a special forces branch are specialized and wouldn't be utilized regularly because of the unique nature of specific mission sets, so you just freeze up assets that could be better used elsewhere while the spartans are off doing god knows what.

[@friktogurg9242]

The only way I see this spartan branch working is if they follow the original plan which is to select individual based on the spartan II and III criteria ( except for age I think, I am sure there are more factors from the original selection to take into account but I am forgetting my halo lore)from the soldiers from different branches, so as to avoid the complete usage of all the best soldiers from each branch. Personally, not that it matters or is related but I would also try to research on ways to make older candidates to be more accepting of the same intensive augmentation process as the II and IIIs.

[@sumoking3002]

I mean the real answer is "we wanted games workshop style space marines without litigation"

[@InquisitorThomas]

Not really… besides the fact that they’re Space Marines in Power Armor (which GW didn’t invent nor do they have sole ownership of) there’s not a whole lot of overlap. The real answer is that 343 wanted a more story driven multiplayer for their Halo games and needed a story explanation for how Spartans went from a few stragglers after Reach to being suddenly back up to full strength in only a few years.

[@TomTasker]

"...They are the Defenders of Humanity. They are my Space Marin, eerrr uhhhmmm ... Spartans.... and they shall know no fear." lol

[@sumoking3002]

@@InquisitorThomas oh yeah, I totally see this independent military branch of bioengineered super soldiers primarily deployed from space who crusade across the galaxy wrecking aliens in the name of a militaristic humanity is totally original and not tapping into the trope (that GW also blatantly ripped - sardukar anyone?) at all because at the end of day what gamers want is a power fantasy hence the preponderance of spartan halos versus jerry the maintenance guy halos

[@alexhobbs2209]

@@sumoking3002 what the fuck is this mess that i just read

[@gg_sam7847]

I like the idea of the next game being a kind of Human civil war and you play as a Spartan and can give orders to your average person squad that if you let die it makes the game significantly harder, make it actually tactical this time around. And the mini-bosses will be other Spartans and their squads.

[@zachryder3150]

Thanks for mentioning the background music in the description. I definitely want this.

[@thalanoth]

Wasn't project ORION cancelled by the UNSC? Later, ORION2 was enacted in secret by Halsey, and therefore couldn't be a part of the normal UNSC's established branches because it wasn't authorized until the spartan IIs accomplishments were impossible to overlook. At least, that's what I thought lol

[@inkedseahear]

Orion was carried out, with Sergeant Johnson being a product. The Spartan-II was Orion's successor but renamed to distant itself.

[@15oClock]

You reckon this allows Commander Ghanem some degree of political authority? Given the martial law the UNCS was formed under, it's not that much of an assumption. This will bite humanity in the ass when there's a coup or succession crisis, I promise you that.

[@freewyvern707]

Probably. His speech seems VERY political, giving me the impression he wants more political power than anything else

[@KillerOrca]

Assuming the UNSC high command still exists following the Created uprising, considering Lord Hood and Serin Osman are currently stuck on an uninhabited rock in the middle of nowhere and Bravo-5 had a frigate dropped on it (alongside basically all of Sydney, Australia...man Sydney cant catch a break in sci-fi can it)

[@ChipmunkofVengeance]

I'm guessing this same argument can also be used against 501st Infantry Regiment, or Vipers, in the Merkiaari wars.

[@comentnine1574]

Merkiaari wars?

[@freewyvern707]

The 501st played a vital role in the coup d'etat however.

[@TomTasker]

501st means Vader's fist to me.... it might be an over used designation in fiction now.

[@nicholaswong6737]

The 501st are front line soldiers, not enhanced super soldiers that are designed for special forces missions. A more apt comparison would be the Republic Commandos or Enhanced Alpha ARC classes (Not promoted arcs like echo or fives, I’m talking about the clones who were genetically enhanced and born ARCs). Even then, Commando teams and ARC teams were organized under the Army, not a seperate branch.

[@ChipmunkofVengeance]

I guess people have yet to find out that Star Wars isn't the only Sci-fi series with a 501st. 501st Infantry regiment, or Vipers, are Cybernetically enhanced super soldiers from the series Merkiaari Wars by Mark E Cooper

[@cole4537]

America is actually an interesting case we’re I’d like to push back against the notion that our military’s special operations don’t have there own branch. I’d argue that they do. The United States Special Operations Command (SOCOM). This is in effect a separate branch that has its own agenda. So for example while the navy seals are a part of the navy, they actually answer to the needs of the SOCOM commander and don’t receive orders from the navy. The same can be said for the Green Berets, Army Rangers, Air Force PJs, and Marine Raiders.

[@Tetsujinhanmaa]

ATo be fair: Musa is only of the original Spartan-II's. He was the smartest of the them and lost the use of his legs when they had their final augmentation surgery. He was to valuable to waste and given that this original group was essentially a bunch of kidnapped children...yeah, you could say he's resentful.

[@FunkyDouch3000]

the real answer is whoever wrote this is bad at their job.

[@Tetsujinhanmaa]

@@FunkyDouch3000 Not gonna lie, the books after Halo 3 are some hot garbage.

[@irishspartanstudios]

I was initially ready to slice and dice with an energy sword when I saw this notification, but now I understand what you mean. I apologize for my initial brash thought process.

[@abdior6961]

The US does have SOCOM and JSOC which have their own units largely independent of their host branches, It could be argued Seal Team 6 is far closer to being a subordinate of JSOC rather than the Navy.

[@TDenterpriser]

I think your analysis is a little off to me the creation of separate branch for the Spartans seems to have many parallels with the waffen ss

[@EAGLESSHADOW55]

I mean, Spartan 2 training did more than make effective frontline commandos. The 2s were taught tactics and grand strategy, and any one of them was capable of becoming a new Napoleon. The 3s, granted had a more solid commando focus. Bringing in pre-trained specops personnel is interesting, because soldiers with previous specops experience can make for incredible military leaders, giving them a chance to shine in a capacity they may not have had in a standard military branch, especially after years of heavy physical and mental tolls. I think the video makes some good points about logistics within the military, but I think it also ignores some of the lore that Spartans have the capacity to be more than frontline commandos. So, yeah, i do think a spartan 2 general or admiral would have a better idea on how to deploy Spartan assets than a Naval admiral.

[@dylandarnell3657]

Something that should be considered in this (especially since it was mentioned in the previous video): Musa Ghanem is a survivor of the SPARTAN-II program (specifically SPARTAN-096). He's one of the children who were kidnapped, indoctrinated, and experimented on, and those early enhancement procedures left him crippled and many of his friends dead. I find it entirely believable that he would have pushed for Spartans getting their own branch, even at the expense of operational effectiveness, so that his people could be under their own command. He doesn't trust any other part of the military or government to not treat them as expendable weapons (with pretty good reason - aside from _literally everything_ about the first two iterations, which might be excused as necessary operating requirements, see Operation TORPEDO for what ONI does when they don't have to use up their horribleness budget on setup), so he makes sure the Spartan Branch is answerable to their own kind, humanity's civilian government, and as few other people as possible.

[@dalehuffer4506]

You should do your own version of a spartan brach like you did with the new republic and first order

[@thomasboland540]

Oh thank god i'm not the only one who thinks this

[@angelamaro3480]

I miss when Spartans had ranks. Best example is John 117 is a master chief petty officer. Now its "spartan jake, spartan sara, spartan so-and-so". That's like saying "oh that's SEAL Adam or SEAL David".

[@robertkeaney9905]

To be honest, I think it makes some sense if you look at Spartans as an evolution of the species. Beneficiaries of technology that could eventually be used to up lift mankind as a group. But is currently reserved for the UNSC's latest implements of war. By separating into a different branch. They'll start to use different equipment than the other branches. And can focus in on making more weapons uniquely suite to their physiology. And yes, the move might've been started by some petulant officer. But it'll pay off over the next few centuries as humanity moves towards reclaiming more and more ancient tech. With Spartans acting as branch sized prototype for what humanity will eventually become. Once they're able to make the augmentations safe enough to be near species wide. And they have enough resources to make power armor near standard issue. They'll be able to take lessons learned from the Spartan branch. And institute it through the whole force. With the Spartan branch then being consumed into the normal forces or taking on ceremonial role. If you look at Spartans as pieces of military hardware. Then splitting them up into their own branch doesn't make sense. But from the perspective of Spartans as a stepping stone towards humanities collective ascension. The move makes a lot more sense.

[@zidniafifamani2378]

"Your mistake is seeing Spartan as military hardware. My Spartan are humanity's next step, our density as a species, do not underestimate them". Dr. Catherine Elizabeth Halsey, creator of SPARTAN-II Supersoldier, Cortana-class 3rd generation Smart AI and MJOLNIR Powered Assault Armor.

[@1kgdepapas618]

i hate that 343 industries treat spartans as "heros" or "saviors" instead of soldiers

[@AlindBack]

I'm not entirely sure how I feel about Spartan Branch one way or another, but some food for thought from a Halo lore nerd: -Spartans were always separate from the other branches. They never answered to anybody higher up the chain of command outside of ONI and HIGHCOM. Specific actions could be led by officers from their respective branch, or even other branches, such as when a young Blue Team (as well as 2 other Spartan-II teams) was put under the command of an ODST officer, which would be a different branch altogether. But, with any instance of Spartans being placed under somebody else's command, they would then always return to ONI after the mission, not their respective branch command. (Also, Spartan-II was under Navy and Spartan-III was under Army. I don't know where this talk of Spartans being in the Air Force comes from.) -Nearly every time Spartans were placed under somebody else's command it hampered the Spartans. Even some ONI commanders couldn't figure out how best to use Spartans. -Administrative tasks in Halo are generally trivial for the UNSC due to the use of AIs. Even dumb AIs, like were used almost exclusively after the Created Uprising, can handle the main bulk of administrative duties, and a smart AI like Roland, Serina, or Cortana hardly even need to think about taking care of the administrative duties for, say, a battlegroup, it is so trivial for them. Though, that is not to say the UNSC leaves it only to AIs, they still have admin personnel, but there is nothing to say the Spartan Branch wouldn't use dedicated administrative personnel. -The use of AI, likewise, makes coordination between branches in a battlespace pretty much a non-factor. Now, all those points seem to favor Spartan Branch, which was what I was going for, but just because you /can/ do something doesn't mean you should. They really haven't fleshed out in the lore what Spartan Branch really means for the UNSC or the Spartans. Functionally, from what we've seen, Spartan Branch just means that the Spartans have their own training facilities that were built from the ground-up for the Spartans and.... that's about it. Everything else that Spartan Branch is supposed to be doing for the Spartans was basically already the way the UNSC used the Spartans.

[@ineedtobestopped5690]

It could be to split the budget like the us space force. Instead of the army or navy having to pick between a buying a battle group or creating a platoon of Spartans, a separate branch will deal with the cost of creating said Spartans. In fall of reach it’s stated that 30ish Spartan II costed as much as fleet to outfit and train, now cost might have gone down over time but the Spartan 4’s number from 600-1000 personnel. If the army or navy took up the cost of funding it’s own Spartans they will likely have to disband division and fleets to balance the budget.

[@melodysdanceoff]

That just means the Army and Navy are both getting smaller budgets to make up for the Spartans and both branches are going to be going out of their way not to help the Spartans.

[@kronos48221]

A lot of the branches you mentioned that would have their own forces are generally covered by the ODST's. If they get dropped from anything it's usually the hell jumpers in the books. Spartan's II's and III's took the highest risk missions. The III's were supped up suicide squads. So the ODST's take the the high risk as the equivalent of spec ops, OD and the spartan's continue to do the "crazy shit" that no one else can. Having their own branch lets them do the extra crazy for any branch and able to take independent action of other branches.

[@mrsniffles5417]

I'm just imagining a bunch of Spartans doing incompentant interviews to get office staff the day after becoming independent.

[@feildpres]

I got the sense that the creation of the Spartan branch was a moved informed by the interbranch rivalry, rather then by logical logistics. Specifically, i got the sense that it was HIGHCOM's plan to remove the Spartans from the direct control of ONI, who had throughout most of the Human-Covenant war, either direct control over, or significant influence on ,all Spartan II and III teams (heck the only non-Oni associated Spartan teams were red team cause they got caught up with the Spirit of Fire crew, and Noble Team which got folded into Oni at the end anyway). perhaps this move was to take the most devastating weapons ever created by humanity out of the control of a single organization with the worst possible reputation and give it its own autonomy so that no one group could directly control them. Maybe HIGHCOM was terrified at what ONI could do if they were allowed to continue to dominate control over the Spartans. The Spartans were originally created to ensure UNSC control over its colonies, what if ONI directed that power at the United Earth Government in a shadow coup. By making the Spartans their own branch under the influence of HIGHCOM alone, maybe they were trying to head off this off. Could be wrong though. either way, great video

[@pin6722]

I think a very good real world example to take a look at is United States's JSOC (Joint Special Operation Command) which oversee the Tier-1 units from all branches like Delta, Devgru, 24th STS etc. JSOC is not a branch but they operate independently and answer almost directly to Joint Chief of Staff.

[@Alext0250]

adding to your point , each unsc branch have own odst contingents especialized in the respective focus of the branch to serve

[@cruznix4741]

Makes more sense for spartan detachments to exist within each branch as a form of SOF instead of having an entire separate branch in and of itself.

[@Chris-os3nt]

Before I watch: Honestly a Spartan Branch is ridiculous. They’re meant to be supplemental/additive to whatever forces they’re linked to be-it Army Naval or others.

[@jamesscalzo3033]

Loved the video @The Templin Institute! Can't wait for the next video man! Just Watched this and your Previous video about the Spartans after having watched Ginger Kitsu's 8 hour vod of her, Rimmy Downunder Gaming and his friends play Stormworks: Build and Rescue and Try out Space Engineers in the UNSC Panama!

[@anoninunen]

The idea: Adeptus Astartes, being self-governing high-power spacemarines The reality: VDV, lacking coordinated logistics or combined-arms

[@zidniafifamani2378]

At least no Horus Heresy

[@francesco8000]

I believe that the reason to give their own branch is that it allows more scrutiny over a project that has a deeply questionable and quite illegal history. The origin of the Spartans is illegal human tests conducted on kidnapped children with the purpose of crushing rebels. After the start of the war with the covenant the Spartan II became special ops but the Spartan III became something much darker... The Spartan III project was about creating cheaper and more expendable elite soldiers (i know it's an Oxymoron) to use in strategic suicide missions: hundreds of teenagers were used and lost this way. With a history like this i think it's extremely important to check and limit the autonomy of this branch in order to avoid some new abuse of power.

[@DarthNicky]

Wouldn’t it allow less scrutiny, though? If Spartans were all just organised under the Navy, then they could be subject to whatever internal mechanisms the Navy has for inspection. Under their own branch, you’re either relying on other, external departments anyways, or you’re letting them police themselves with new, untested bureaucratic structures, which is obviously exploitable.

[@KillerOrca]

Technically, thats just the S-IIs. Before them were two lineages of consenting adult volenteers, the twin versions of Project Orion (though we know little about the first one, the second producing operators like Johnson). But the point still stands.

[@zidniafifamani2378]

@@DarthNicky better than solely dependent on ONI though, and heads of other branches also know that they couldn't really have spartan to be kept solely on their branch because they couldn't trust themselves and other branches to not misappropriate and worse abuse the use of spartan since their doctrine are made for normal baseline human soldier, not tank-wearing augmented omen of death that cost as much as a starship, so it's better for spartan to have their own administrative branches that could be used to develop their own doctrine that fully realized full capabilities of spartan while maintaining spartan-augmented normal human fireteam capabilities.

[@DarthNicky]

@@zidniafifamani2378 if they don’t want to be under ONI (fair enough) then they could be placed under a different jurisdiction of the Navy (or the Marines). Just making their own branch is just doing the blackjack and hookers meme while crippling themselves logistically because they’re going to have to, for the most part, make use of naval assets anyways. And I don’t really get what the Spartans’ own doctrine would be. There’s not that many of them, even including the IVs. The best way to use them is to supplement existing Marine, Army, and Navy operations as was done during the HCW. The idea of deploying like, battalions or anything larger than a few fireteams into one general zone of operations is a waste of resources when the UNSC has to operate across multiple planets across multiple solar systems.

[@zidniafifamani2378]

@@DarthNicky that's exactly the crux, the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marine Corps didn't trust themselves and each other to be granted sole monopolies of spartan assets, because of that the only real option left is left the spartans to form their own branches that independent but interdependence.

[@DalithaMW]

This is legitimately my main issue with the Spartan 4s (beyond how they're portrayed in halo 4-5l, it's so weird

[@blackdog6969]

I think the Spartans, while linked to the Naval side of things were more "secret police" to start with. ONI, being the supposed handlers, as seen in ODST where Dare just happens to have some Spartan tech while working for them. That being said, most active Spartan IIs were under Halsey's control, making them in their own right a militia that worked with or for other branches. Having th Spartans as their own branch makes them logistically more capable to engage with the others as well as engaging their own missions that are needed for that specific level of prowess. Hope all this made sense, Im a few drinks in. Either way, this was a cool vid. Even had my father debating on it halfway through

[@cfdj43]

This is pretty clearly a PR move which is why it's good world building. It has two benefits: 1. Make the Spartans happy by giving them their own branch as a reward for service (do they want it? Not necessarily but it's such a big deal they can't exactly turn it down/voice disapproval 2. Protect the rest of the institutions from backlash for unsavoury operations. The marines weren't responsible for that assassination, it was the Spartan Branch. Backlash to the creation of Spartan 2s in particular can now be directed at them as a scapegoat. It also has a major logistical benefit in that Spartan equipment is highly specialised (e.g. the armour) and potentially top secret/experimental, other branches no longer have the headache of dealing with these. (And who is or isn't allowed to know about them)

[@AonghasMcTavish]

I would argue that ODSTs are the navy seals of the UNSC.

[@jager2749]

MARSOCS, fits better

[@Noughtbutashadow]

Think you could analyze the unsc covenant war and see what went wrong on both sides? That’d be epic

[@11_ignatio_claudio64]

Or if only Spartans are used

[@Gandalf1232]

If that was a real world military, his speech would've been met with bemused smirks, followed by "how cute. Now, here are your ORDERS."

[@Salt0fTheEarth]

It seemed to me that part of the creation of the Spartan branch was also the consolidation and Spartanization of most other special forces groups. Hence why all the named Spartan IVs we get to know where operators in previous special ops groups (though the ODST are 'special forces' only in the original sense of the word, not quite like the modern connotation of assymetric operators).

[@vanivanov9571]

Err... ever heard of the United States Marine Corps, before? They're a separate branch from the US Army, and that seems to be what they modelled the Spartans off of in this and carious respects. Spartans appear to work both as SF and as conventional military units.

[@dawlben2247]

Personally I would set up 2 groups of Spartans. 1) For missions that require travel. Being trained for infiltration purposes. 2) For core world protection. Being trained for anti-infiltration.

[@saladinbob]

The thing is, from a practical standpoint the U.S. does have an independent Special forces branch. It's called Private Military Contractors. By outsourcing that work it affords them plausible deniability but the results are the same. They are able to operate outside the mainstream command structure and in places it would be inappropriate to do so. Russia employs a similar tactic and is doing so in Ukraine right now.

[@soul1d]

I see it as laziness, they should be under the navy since they are a spacefaring civilization and thus the spartans would then get access to naval budgets which are always larger than what ground forces would get. That and spartans go wherever they are needed thus they require the navy to transport them, they are just Super SEALS

[@shinyagumon7015]

I love how you guys always make a video about an organisation before mercilessly desecting them. It's like showing the new kid in school around before you stuff them in a locker and steal their lunch money. Very cordial of you MARC! One aspect I think you missed is the political downsides of creating the Spartan Command. Not only could this make them less effective overall, but it also seems like it could be potentially dangerous for the UNSC to give such an exclusive branch so much unchallenged power. Last time I checked the Spartans were all super soldiers, right? An exclusive, tight knit group of people who are scientifically proven to be better than everyone else, who according to the general's speech also think that they are the only one capable of keeping humanity safe, right? So why would you give them their own independent military service that apparently doesn't even answer to the highest command! Do you really trust them enough to not abuse their new found power? What if the Spartans decide that the best way to keep humanity safe is to control it? Do you really want your best soldiers, with the best equipment to be a potential enemy with no oversight to detect their treachery early?

[@dylandarnell3657]

Given that the previous setup had those super-soldiers be under the control of an organization that had all those flaws you listed, but with the additional perks of kidnapping, indoctrinating, and experimenting on children to make them, and which had a tendency to treat the Spartans as expendable weapons, and which was at least leaning heavily towards a "we must control humanity to save it" mission statement... still a step up.

[@isotaan]

I think the Spartan Branch is a glimpse of things to come- a time where all USNC ground forces are augmented with Spartan abilities, much like the Forerunner Warrior-Servant rates.

[@okashi6]

I was going to argue but I was only thinking of the spartan 2s. Everything after the war makes no sense and you made very good points for why it makes no sense. Great video

[@nicktechnubyte1184]

There's definitely a lot more people in the comment section then there were in the last video!

[@shawnt.2189]

Tbh I feel that a separate spartan branch makes sense in a logistical and administrative perspective. For each branch of the military to run its own spartan-class spec ops unit means that they all need doctors who are experienced with the Spartans, armor and shield replacements specific to the Spartans have to be split from the manufacturing plant to the different branches, Spartan related R&D may be kept secret from other divisions who also run similar research. A dedicated spartan branch could at the very least collate some of these responsibilities together. The spartan branch themselves could have a larger pool of fireteams to choose for technology testing. Although if we think about in a all out war communication between branches could be a disadvantage for splitting of the Spartans from the rest of the branches but in reality, ships in the halo universe could have detachments of Spartans, Army, Marines assigned to it to perform its duty so there really is no issue in doing it this way.

[@zentonil]

Space Marines rolled into the Imperial Guard would be a trip.

[@DankGank]

I like to think for purposes of intel compartmentalization that it might be useful for Spartans to be in their own branch if they are taking on missions that don't necessarily fall under the purview of the Navy itself. Think scope of responsibility A naval officier is tasked with carrying out the mission of the navy, that being the territorial defense of humanity. A spartan officer might also be tasked with the security of the UNSC as an organization, perhaps the strategic assassination of an opposition leader. You are thinking more along the lines of Spartans as Army rangers and I am thinking more along the lines of Spartans as Delta Force. While Delta wears the Army patch, it is almost always going to receive its orders directly from JSOC

[@Bismuth83X]

So, uh, this is kind of off topic, but in the ideas for sci-fi universes I have floating around in my head, "navy" still only refers to water-based forces. Space cruisers and stuff are the space force. Would that sound alright or would it be weird or dumb for some reason?

[@pearsegallagher9832]

i think it depands on how important the wet navy is. if its sentural to most conflicts id say sure but if not it should likley be tossed into the army

[@eight-cloudspurple5871]

Thats basically federation in star trek. They havr naval patrol and starfleet

[@Muninn_Crow]

Ah yes... the genetically engineered child soldier branch, now with adult handholders. :P This opens the way for the Sparta paper-pusher! The Spartan bureaucrat! Personally, I've always disliked the post-war direction of the UNSC, and having the Spartans operate their own branch means maintaining their own equipment, vehicles, and ships, that draws away from their fighting force. Else, if anyone joins the Spartan corps as a logistics officer, or IT... are they still called a Spartan? (ie. the Marines in the Marine Corps.)

[@roberthipolito1351]

2:35 the number one complaint from former special forces operators. Be it ex US Navy SEALS, Mexican Green Berets, French Foreign Legion GCPs, Canadian JTF2, Brazilian BOPE, UK SAS, etc... On enterviews, podcast, documentaries, books, movies or shows... The one thing they all criticize is conventional leaders not understanding special operations, making bad decisions and overall hindering the performance of a SOF unit. Heck, it's even a trope. It's why so many operators quit, and the common plot point for fictional stories operators going rogue.

[@BananaMonkeyization]

"While the Office of Naval Intelligence has its own special secuirty force for some reason" Well you see that's because they [redacted] and have a long history of [user account no longer available]

[@codyyoung5946]

"While the Office of Naval Intelligence has its own Security Forces, for some reason" We do not question ONI's "Security Forces"