The US Standard Battleships - 21 knots, but why?

[@GentlistUncle]

i actually really enjoyed this. i find the history behind these ships to be very interesting.

[@a6mzeke1]

The doctrine for air craft carriers was to preform harassing missions and scouting until the main battle line could be brought to bear. So the carriers were designed and built to keep up with light cruisers and destroyers and fall back behind the battle line as needed

[@Platinumsniper]

I really enjoyed this. I was not aware of the reasoning behind the 21 knots. I did know that the later fast Battleships NC, SD and Iowa's 30ish knots made them perfect for CV AA escort

[@weberry78]

Glad to see that in game we don't follow the US strategy of coordinated attacks! Most players just seem to go their own way. Great video and I enjoyed the history lesson. Maybe cover cruiser or destroyer development next?

[@Revkor]

THis just proves that WG needs to buff the accuracy of US BB's

[@siedogg9790]

Great video! Keep up the good work!

[@Whiskey11Gaming]

Thanks!

[@MrMiz1113]

I think the reason the Washington wasn't finished was that it ran afoul of the Washington Treaty. That said, you're pretty spot on about the speed description. The US knew that other nations had faster BBs but didn't much care as they felt that speed should be subordinated to firepower and protection. This was somewhat between the Germans, who opted for massive protection but lower gun caliber, and the Brits and Japanese who opted for somewhat less protection in return for higher speed. The main thinking with settling for a lower speed in return for better firepower and protection was that using superior speed to decline action was effectively a loss and that when driven to being forced to fight by an advancing enemy, the speed advantage wouldn't do as much good as thicker armor and more firepower.

[@CountArtha]

The Washington Naval Treaty was designed around the U.S. Navy at the time. America's biggest, baddest battleships displaced 35,000 tons, so they made the treaty limit 35,000 tons. USS _Washington_ was cancelled because the USN was already at the total capital ship tonnage limit set by the treaty.

[@Hakama86423]

I like the history behind this. Thanks

[@b0zzy793]

more plz this is relay good

[@Whiskey11Gaming]

Thanks, there will definitely be more! :)

[@b0zzy793]

cool

[@michaelhemminger2390]

love the video man I'm on the new mexico and I'm 8k away from the Colorado

[@MrZemIan]

Very interesting video! :D Stuff like this is always interesting!

[@Whiskey11Gaming]

Glad you liked it! Expect to see a lot more as I do these videos for the Shoot The Red Ships guys!

[@anarchyandempires5452]

If you face us Battleships in the game a single word will quickly appear in your mind "Tanky" the damned things are surprisingly hard to kill and can turn on a dime to dodge torpedoes, I've actually gotten with in 3 kilometers of a new York uncaging a double spread of Japanese torps at what I thought was pretty much point blank range and the bastard still managed to turn into me making literally all my torpedoes miss, it was the most Matrix sh*t I had seen so far in the game.

[@outwardpanicjoe8950]

I would like to see a another prem standard BB one of these days might be nice

[@Whiskey11Gaming]

I really want West Virginia or Tennessee/California in their post Pearl Harbor configuration as a premium. The WeeVee would be my first choice!

[@outwardpanicjoe8950]

Whiskey's Gaming Lounge same a lot of people would like the Colorado c hull be the Maryland and the USS West Virginia be a tier 7 prem

[@tyleralan5304]

I'd actually say the Montana has a good to fair torpedo belt in game if im correct its just shy of 50% damage reduction which is pretty dam good

[@Whiskey11Gaming]

Both Standards in Game have either the same 39% (with the add on for added torp resistance) or better.... New Mexico has 42%, Montana/Colorado have 39%. In real life, the Standards would actually be much, much, much higher than the Montana. The Montana's hull design harkens back to the TDS systems used on the North Carolina which were considered better than the TDS on the South Dakota's and Iowa's but all of them failed to perform up to expectations. Probably due to the fact that the US built the TDS to withstand a certain torpedo warhead size that most nations upgraded from almost immediately after the ships were built!

[@iammalin2982]

I'm sooo close to north Carolina sooo close

[@shapiro5000]

Me too - can't wait. While I like the Colorado I would like the option of going faster :).

[@rex4765]

I'm so close to the Bismarck. Only 60-ish K away. If I play it right I'm only two days off it. As for the Colorado, only 4-5 days off with my Premium status.

[@Whiskey11Gaming]

Speed does have it's advantages as pointed out in the podcast, but the lack of speed is a good trainer too. I like my US Standards. I tend to find more enjoyment out of the Standards than I do the Fast BB's.

[@rex4765]

Whiskey's Gaming Lounge Too bad the Colorado's armor doesn't work too well bow or keel on. And works less effectively in my opinion then the NM broadside.

[@Whiskey11Gaming]

Depends, I've had pretty solid luck with her bow on/stern on and repelling shots. She just has a really soft upper hull.

[@ceutermark8271]

Great video I've always liked the look of the early us battleships and even though they are slow in game in the right case they can take a beating.

[@Wo_9]

I love my USN Fast BB's but i really want to see my home state Maryland in the game :3 West Virginia would be awesome to since she borders my State to

[@Whiskey11Gaming]

Hah! WeeVee is where it's at for Colorado Class BB's. I like the Maryland too but WeeVee had more extensive upgrades than Maryland did.

[@MrMiz1113]

I'd love to see my home state of Pennsylvania as well; especially in her post Pearl Harbor refit.

[@outwardpanicjoe8950]

Wo 9 yeah I think the Maryland would make a great C hull upgrade and maybe the WEe Vee could. E a prem

[@bobheale2521]

would be interesting to get a 3 man division of standards going in WoW and see what kind of havoc ensued

[@Cragified]

You have to love how the U.S.N. battleships start off slower then their real life launching speeds and only do 21 knots with engine upgrades. But the German BBs start off faster then they ever did in real life and get faster with upgrades. IJN at least start off at realistic velocities and then upgrade to real life velocities after modernizations.

[@Whiskey11Gaming]

Gotta have some reason to make you grind through them! :) Gotta have a certain amount of XP per tier per class of ship so as to keep people from speed grinding up through a tree faster than he could on another tree.

[@Cragified]

In their first iteration introduction in alpha they didn't have the engine upgrades. The small amount of xp that costs was distributed across the hull upgrades. Final xp required was the same. That the German battleships start off faster then they ever where and get even faster in tier 4,5,6 and then the 7, 8 start off a slower but get upgraded faster then real life stands in very stark contrast to the USN and IJN lines. The German battleship line is a travesty of paper ship stating so many real life ships that didn't need it from stock and then giving them ridiculous post WWII perspective 'what if' modernizations dumping tons of AAA on them . All while the USN ships aren't even allowed to have their WWII modernizations in those same tiers and get fictionally weaker AAA among other things for the hull refits. Royal Navy Line is probably going to be quite the ride as well as they are going to have to make them desirable to free xp convert up.

[@VRichardsn]

The problem with the _Linienschiffe_ is that they almost all got sunk in Scapa Flow by their own crews. Thus, the upgrades represent a "what if" of what they would looked like if they had stayed in service and suffered modernizations, just like other contemporary ships. Look at the Andrea Doria, for example. It got a substantial remodelling that included replacing the entire powerplant which significantly added to its speed. Suddendly, seeing the Bayern steam at 25 knots doesn't seem too improbable.

[@TK-fk4po]

Well as we know, the usually chaotic more or less one on one engagement we see in the game was never seen in real combat for the most part. Most combat was done at very long range and the US radar pretty much was going to be superior to anything else in terms of targeting ability. In the game we don't see that. The use of battleship torpedoes is actually pretty ridiculous in real life however in the game it definitely makes things more interesting.

[@CountArtha]

The U.S. Navy did NOT mess around when they built their battleships. Not the fastest in the world, but they _were_ the hardest to kill - and that's what battleships are for.

[@billybobert2342g]

Nice, glad to learn the US Navy's doctrine at the time, but hypothetically if the US had been made aware and the Admiral had gone to war do you think those ships plus maybe the Enterprise could have repelled and or achieved victory for the battle at P.H?

[@Whiskey11Gaming]

It is hard to say. The US's carrier fleets were far enough away to have been of little comparative use in the battle. We are talking six full fleet carriers vs the USS Enterprise. The Big E was impressive, don't get me wrong, but it wasn't six fleet carriers impressive! :) The hardest part of any naval battle is just locating the enemies. If the USN Battleship fleet had been successfully placed to ambush the carrier fleet, it could have been pretty ugly for the IJN Carriers very early in the war. Had they been caught in the harbor, well, you saw the results. With room to maneuver they would be pretty hard to hit. Their Pre Pearl AA compliment wasn't overly impressive by the late war standard but they would have had a proper fleet around them on the get go. It's fun to think about, but without proper carrier cover, I think we would have had heavy losses in that battle and might not have won it either. Air cover is that important.

[@billybobert2342g]

I was thinking it would have to play out like Midway, but in this time the Army would be tasked with defeating the naval wing, something that historically the P-40 did do. I would use the Enterprise to harass the warships while they were trying to engage the US BB's. I think though that due to the speed factor the Japanese would have been able to get away, and would not have looked for a long drawn out battle. Also I might be wrong, but if the Japanese fleet was spotted they were under orders to call it off... Perhaps we would have had Montana class BB in that world.

[@billybobert2342g]

Thanks for your reply!

[@patricklenigan1650]

*sigh* I want to rebuy my New Mexico... and Colorado...

[@Whiskey11Gaming]

New Mexico never left my fleet. I've had her consistently since I got her in OBT. I knew I'd never get rid of her! Colorado has become one HECK of a ship! I am thoroughly impressed with her capabilities now. Only thing I wish she had was a touch more AA but overall, not a bad ship anymore. My "How to Play" on her from a year ago expresses my extreme frustration with that ship, but now that I've played her updated self, she's quite the amazing ship!

[@patricklenigan1650]

Oh she is an amazing ship, especially with a leveled up captain which I used to keep on her. I sold both ships when I was going through the lines because I needed the credits...but now I regret the choice

[@Tzunamii777]

Thoroughly enjoyed this. Any advice for a good credit making shop Premium? My highest line ship is T8, I need to start printing credits.

[@Whiskey11Gaming]

Missouri is really the best ship you can get to print credits as it's the only T9 premium that is easily obtainable (Black is the other but requires multiple Rank 1's in Ranked Battles). 750k Free XP and 2 credits (one for the ship and one for the only camo worth putting on it :P). Beyond that, Atago, Tirpitz, Alabama, any of the T8 premium ships that match your play style are good choices for premiums since they all print the most possible! :)

[@VRichardsn]

The torpedo protection of these ships was great, even more so considering how old they were. That, coupled with superb damage control practices, makes them more resistant than most to torpedo damage. I am not sold on the speed, though. If the US had to employ those standards during the 1910's and 1920's, I would rather have Queen Elizabeths.

[@outwardpanicjoe8950]

Also I seems like in game the Japanese has some of the best torp protection on a lot of there ships lol o well

[@Whiskey11Gaming]

They do, and this is not based on a real life performance analysis of the ship but purely on the thicknesses of the torpedo bulge. Totally arbitrary. The Yamato's torpedo bulge and armored belt have a massive flaw in real life and when the first air dropped torpedo found her hull it ripped a MASSIVE hole in her armored belt. Musashi suffered the same problem.

[@outwardpanicjoe8950]

Whiskey's Gaming Lounge I would be nice if they did the torpedo proctecton was based on the air pace between the hull and bulge maybe

[@shapiro5000]

Nice video, for many of us we got into World of Warships due to liking military histoy so keep it up! Are you getting the Mighty Mo? If so, I hope to see a is it worth the grind video since it seems to be a MAJOR investment in time/exp and gold to convert.

[@Whiskey11Gaming]

Yes, I plan on getting Missouri some time tonight via the "Pay to Win" Option. I have so much free XP and I've wanted her since they told us she was going to be in game. I'll probably sell Iowa when I do get her.

[@shapiro5000]

I don't have enough exp yet so I'll be grinding my best preforming premium ships w/ signals for exp. It'll take me a week or so.

[@TeamRetroWorld]

Japan BTFO: The Video.

[@outwardpanicjoe8950]

So to make the standards op everyone have to move at once in a battle line ?

[@Whiskey11Gaming]

If the whole fleet stayed together and operated as a unit and focused stuff down together?? I'd say it would!

[@MrMiz1113]

Yes and no; in the real world, the ideal for a battleship formation was to perform a maneuver known as 'crossing the T' whereby you had your whole line broadside to an advancing enemy. The idea was that you could bring all your guns to bear while they could only bring their forward ones. That wouldn't work so well if you crossed the T of most T8-10 BBs in this game.....

[@outwardpanicjoe8950]

Aaron Barr mmm so in real life they where safer showing a broadside then going bow on all the time ?

[@Whiskey11Gaming]

Yeah pretty much. Battleship accuracy was about 1/3rd of what it is in game at the most common engagement ranges, although there are some impressive hit records by USN Standards during WWII at some pretty good ranges. Also battleships rarely engaged as close as we do in game...

[@outwardpanicjoe8950]

Whiskey's Gaming Lounge true the wee vee hit 6 of 8 shots from her first salvo in the dark. With radar help of coarse

[@CMDRFandragon]

Yeah, so in game, USN ships should be even tougher then they are haha. Sounds like dem USN ships were damn near unsinkable.....well, until of course you hit it with 7 torps in the side lol...

[@TheStig_TG]

*coughs* Oklahoma *coughs*

[@kaseko6549]

FIRST!