The View from Shore | Findings from the 1845 Franklin Expedition

How did the 1845 Franklin expedition fail? The discoveries of the wrecks of HMS Erebus and HMS Terror hold tremendous promise for achieving a better understanding of events that led to the fatal outcome of the Franklin northwest passage expedition. Dr. Douglas Stenton will discuss the on-going research and will highlight some of the key shoreline discoveries and results.
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[@diane9247]

I've been soaking up all of the KZbin Franklin videos. This one is a great update and relatively recent. Thank you! Looking forward to more.

[@Steve-cs8nd]

Get a hold of Dr Beatty’s book “Frozen in Time”. I read it in 1993 and it was a very good read being not just about the autopsies of the Stoker Torrington Hartnell and Braine but the history of the expedition as a whole which was the Moon shot of its era.

[@isrulius]

I just wish there was more, its so limited.

[@SpaceCowboy-u7j]

Have you seen The Terror mini series?

[@jonniereynolds7915]

@@SpaceCowboy-u7j It’s mostly fiction! No doubt you are incapable of reading and researching, as generics only comprehend vile tv shows or a series. I guarantee you think tuunbaq was real.

[@alistairclarke6726]

Been following this subject for decades.... Great presentation

[@robsmithadventures1537]

Fantastic video. Public libraries are such a valuable service to people.

[@MarionThiessen]

What I think is so fascinating about the failure of the Franklin Expedition is that I don’t think it was one sole factor that led to its loss of life. It was any combination of lead poisoning, improperly canned food, scurvy, the unusually cold weather, etc. one of these elements of their own may not have lead to the total loss of life, but all of them worked together.

[@drock8505]

Very interesting. Just goes to show how important the stories from elders and ancestors is in solving mysteries from the past

[@annehaight9963]

15:00 my interpretation of what happened at this site is that the remains are inuit, and the inuit discovered the cairn that had been put over them by people who thought they were from the Franklin expedition. I can speculate that the inuit found this offensive and dismantled the cairn and removed the remains to be placed somewhere else where the bones would not be disturbed again.

[@moncrayon]

Except for the fact that we can distinguish between European and indigenous skeletons based on the teeth.

[@Steve-cs8nd]

What ruined their chances was going down the western side of Prince William Island ( erroneously thinking it was a peninsular joined at eastern side) because this doomed them to the McClintock Channel Ice flow that not only beset the ships but cracked even the Iron cased hulls causing them to founder in 1848 and stranding the entiring surviving expedition. The massive flow of Ice down the McClintock channel flowed South East and even today is a problem especially in bad years. Had they tried going behind the Island they would of discovered the passage AND made it to the Pacific!

[@JackAShepherd]

MANSPLAINING THE FRANKLIN EXPEDITION 😹😹😹

[@peach5277]

​@@JackAShepherdwhat a nob

[@Alsemenor]

​@@JackAShepherd Idiot

[@TRHARTAmericanArtist]

Just finished reading Here us by Michael Palin. Wonderful read.

[@tucmakukla]

Started diving into the Franklin Expedition resources only few days ago... I think the main point about ignoring oral histories in the past might have been not the position of wrecks, but how they got there - possible re-boarding and the entire timeline (if the encounter with starving group of 40-odd people happened as described, would fit the aftermath of Terror sinking described in said histories) and possibly the cause of deaths overall... Interesting video.

[@richardmalcolm1457]

This is a terrific summary, Dr Stenton! One very tiny caveat: Can we really call Crozier's short postscript to the Victory Point Note ("And start on tomorrow 26th for Backs Fish River") a blueprint for Crozier's escape plan? The postscript gives no reason *why* they were going to Back's River, what they would do there, or where they might go afterward, after all. Might we consider David Woodman's theory that, a trip to any HBC outpost being far too arduous to be remotely within the Franklin men's capability, that the Back's River journey was only intended as an extended hunting trip, to obtain fresh game to address scurvy - and buy another year, perhaps, for some rescue effort to find them?

[@HamburgerTime209]

I dunno, that sounds pretty unlikely to me. If it was an extended hunting trip, why would they abandon the ships? Or at least, why would they say they abandoned the ships in the Victory Point Note? And why take so many men? Surely an extended hunting party would take no more then 2 dozen, which is inconsistent with the number of skeletons found, and with Inuit eyewitness accounts. If the plan was to abandon the ships but set up a semi-permanent camp at Victory Point and wait for rescue while a large group heads to Backs Fish River to hunt, why did they not build cabins, which we surely would’ve found was evidence of. I think the traditional assumption of a mass evacuation of both crews to the south is probably the most likely explanation.

[@richardmalcolm1457]

@@HamburgerTime209 These are valid concerns. And the reality is, this is all speculation, beause we don't *know* - the Victory Point Note is the only written record we have, and beyond that all we have is an array of sometimes odd archaeological evidence. Woodman had as one driving concern that even had the Franklin men been in perfect health in April 1848, they would not have had any realistic chance of being able to reach any Hudson Bay Company post in that season - it's over 1,200 miles to Fort Resolution, and even farther to Fort Churchill, much of it over difficult ground, and none of the Franklin men had any experience or skills for Arctic overland travel - and we have fairly good reason to believe that many of them were NOT in good health. Crozier was not a fool; he would know this. So why undertake what is on its face a hopeless mission? Woodman explores a number of possibilities, some more compelling than others.

[@richardmalcolm1457]

@@HamburgerTime209 P.S. One more point re: "why did they not build cabins?" The simple answer to this is, Victory Point is about a thousand miles north of the Arctic tree line. The only substantial source of wood within a circle of that radius was...well, the EREBUS and TERROR themselves. Dismantling them to build cabins on shore would have been difficult, to say the least (scurvy ridden men breaking the ships apart and hauling the lumber on heavy sledges repeatedly over 25 miles of jagged pack ice, etc.), but also would have reduced any "slim" hope they had of leads opening and at least one of the ships being sailable out of their trap to "none."

[@matthew-dq8vk]

@@richardmalcolm1457 I see you around a lot because we both are fascinated by this expedition and the mystery. I don't think I've ever asked you who your favorite officer is? I'm partial to Crozier myself, but Irving is cool as well.

[@Dil3MM4]

@@matthew-dq8vk I know you didn't ask me, but I was really fond of the arc that James FitzJames had in the novel, and the bond developed between him and Crozier.

[@JoshuaTreeWorkshopsVideos]

Excellent!

[@MeanGene1983]

Great presentation.

[@jbank8447]

Fantastic video

[@skirtedgalleons]

Fascinating, thank you.

[@victorian1435]

Awesome video, is the mandible found at Two Grave Bay the same one that was identified as belonging to James Fitzjames?

[@fyrequeene]

There's a Smithsonian article from September 26 that talks about this, and says the site contained over 400 bones from at least 13 men. So it looks like no, Fitzjames was found at a different site. Fascinating stuff--hopefully they will eventually identify more of the crew through DNA...

[@victorian1435]

@@fyrequeene Thank you for your reply! I'd love to read more, could you link the article?

[@carminia824]

Very enlightening.

[@benwilson6145]

Thank you

[@MorganBrown]

So THIS is what John Malkovich does in his free time!

[@natrzezwoniewarto8678]

fantastic thing. Thank you for that video

[@georgewaite2952]

When the men left the ships in April,1848, they headed south. It was croziers and Fitzsimmons decision to make it to the Back Fish River by walking out. They were dragging the boats on sleds and some provisions. It was very hard for the crews. They wore wool clothing. Malnutrition had set in . Their gums were bleeding. Cannabilism had occurred. They sweated a lot dragging the boats. The elements of the weather was difficult. The men died on their way south. As they became weak and tired, they succumbed to their deaths. Just a terrible expedition that went bad.

[@johnwright291]

From what i have been able to glean from armchair exploration is that the only sure fire route to avoid ice is via simpson straight on the south end of king William island.

[@JiggleTheJamJar]

The mandible that was found in the same location as the female pelvic bone, is that the one which was identified as James Fitzjames? Or are they still searching for evidence to conclude that this area was of of significance to the Franklin expedition?

[@20yrsfarming]

I can only take so much Franklin before I need me some Shackleton.

[@drock8505]

Did they encounter any Inuit? Too bad they couldn’t have been found by the locals and brought back to their civilization to ride out the winter and try for rescue the following spring.

[@jattanu94]

lol

[@whathappenedtomyYThandle]

Maybe natives went there and removed all signs of the memorial and bones to deter ppl returning to visit or now investigate. Picked it clean and tossed in a couple of unrelated items to confuse.

[@TechnicolorBunny]

are you touching it?

[@SpaceCowboy-u7j]

The Terror (2018)

[@johnkeviljr9625]

7 buried heads only? Very strange. Doesn't feel very "Franklin-ish". Female bone. No way.

[@royfr8136]

15:00 - 50 years later the bones had been removed...... Nothign else said about this.... ?????? Who took them? Why? Why was this just ignored by the uploader??? These may have been bones from the men and they were removed, so ......?????????

[@lorenzbroll101]

Franklin was just not up to it and the men knowing this mutinied at some point, hence the high officer casualties compared to other ratings. Obviously, they formed into two groups.

[@brandon8667]

Read Dan Simmons’ The Terror and now here I am No evidence of a monster then

[@josephjohnson9805]

The very first thing that would have helped the exhibition would have been a supply of bottled lemon juice. The next thing that was needed was Regular Supply Ships maybe three to send supplies to the Franklin Expedition and messages back to the English Empire and navy.

[@geslinam9703]

I read that there was a supply of lemon juice on board at least one of the ships, but it only has a shelf life of 1 or 2 years.

[@Swngflwr]

Why ya gotta blow off thanking the Inuit?

[@zipperpillow]

Probably because the Netsilik are the ones who attacked the sledding parties in defense of their hunting grounds? (and took Franklin's medal)

[@matthew-dq8vk]

​@@zipperpillow This is such crap, stop spreading this nonsense.

[@Blorbobaggins]

@@zipperpillow any sources besides the voices in your head?

[@JackAShepherd]

He wrote a whole book about Inuit testimony... He's not "blowing it off" -- he's just setting straight an annoying narrative

[@MrSvenovitch]

All this money and effort put into this while people alive today suffer and don't have a roof over their head. Better never to have been.

[@ArthurPage-z4q]

Thompson Jason Thomas Betty White Larry

[@mauriceclark4870]

I. Think. Lady. Franklin. Showed. Men. Up. As. Often. Happens. She. Got. Men. Motivated. Good. For. Her. !!

[@jattanu94]

pretty much

[@BushyHairedStranger]

We know now that there was an American Werewolf in London that was hired as a shipman aboard the HMS Terror 🎉in 1845. We also know that this Yankee Werewolf killed many aboard the HMS Terror all except for John Torrington & the other two men buried on Beachy Island in 1846. In 1980 their excavated corpses perfectly preserved in the permafrost showed high levels of cortisol & adrenaline which likely caused their premature deaths from fright! having likely witnessed the terrifying and savage transformation of this Yankee Werewolf during the first Full Moon of their journey into the Arctic! This yank delegate Lycanthrope brutally ripped apart & murdered all of Franklins Men whilst they were frozen with fright locked in the icy grip of this Savage White Landscape! None survived the horrifying ordeal though some did escape making a valiant attempt to put distance between themselves & those they witnessed being ripped apart by the supernatural powers of the American Werewolf in the Arctic!! The HMS Terror Ship Bell has Lycanthropic Claw Marks upon it! A ring a ding dong!

[@370530e]

This is the best theory about what happened to the expedition and clears up all the unexplained events associated with it. My only objection is that werewolves don’t exist.

[@JackAShepherd]

TUUNBAAQ 🐻‍❄️

[@thedrumdoctor]

If only they’d had silver instead of lead to cast gun shot…😂

[@imfeathers]

@@thedrumdoctor I want what you were having.

[@thedrumdoctor]

@@imfeathers must have been that holiday in Chernobyl I won.

[@force1253]

Please dear god stop digging up these poor remains. Allow them their peace.

[@olliverklozov2789]

They are just bones. Whoever piloted them is long gone.

[@natec9420]

Please tell me you’re not using tax dollars to create another KZbin channel.

[@beachbrettf]

Using minimal tax dollars for EDUCATION is not a bad thing. Maybe you should spend your efforts on talking to Washington about sending hundreds of billions of American tax money to other countries like Ukraine, instead. Id say that's probably more of a problem.

[@natec9420]

@@beachbrettf no, it has a really bad thing. We don’t need to tax dollars to do this. There’s 1000 other channels that teach the exact same stuff, for free. Quit mooching off other people.

[@beachbrettf]

​@@natec9420nothing is free, dip$hit.

[@No1ANTAGON1ST]

💤 😴

[@chrissandi9613]

Very much wanted to enjoy this, but (sorry to be self-elected linguistics constable) by the first couple minutes the expert referred to a route as a "rout", I couldn't put up with it! Route rhymes with shoot; rout rhymes with shout/bout/tout/lout...

[@KOKidsOG]

Bro... How autistic are you? 😂

[@Bishop228]

What an utterly pointless, dumb comment. No one cares if you enjoyed it or not. Work on your impulse control next time.

[@demonicsquid7217]

Oh no someone has an accent, the horror!

[@matthewgrucella]

Why was it necessary for you to have your face up there talking on the right side of the screen the whole time? You have an okay voice , and it's not necessary for us to see you for this content

[@isaacshaver6218]

Fascinating. Thank you.