The wargamers who won a real war

[@Khobotov]

"They didn't expect France to go *blargh* in a matter of weeks." I guess neither did the Germans.

[@declanedmison5442]

“Holy shit, we actually took France that fast?”

[@zincoleo1]

@@declanedmison5442 France actually got experienced at being Germany's punching bag.

[@Vlad_Tepes_III]

@@declanedmison5442 "The same France that held on for so long in the last war?!?"

[@NemoForever338]

@@realMaverickBuckley The French fail to agree on anything. Consider this: Hitler could have been French.

[@siva4wotblitzhero531]

@@NemoForever338 Well in our Timeline he *wasnt* of French Descent from what we know

[@leaphchausew7277]

The Admiral who lost to a rating demonstrated supreme leadership when they swallowed their pride and implemented the rating’s strategy. The ability to abandon hubris is a quality many leaders have lacked and paid dearly for.

[@megalonrulez]

A quality required to be a great leader.

[@hanspepigummischas]

just wrote basically the same comment, feeling smart about myself. then i saw yours, a year earlier and better written ^^

[@bryanbufton]

@@hanspepigummischas I was writing the same. Great minds think

[@The_ZeroLine]

They later had that rating quietly killed.

[@howdypotowty]

RE: Japanese admiralty re:battle of midway preparations. A junior officer predicted a north eastern attack from the US fleet that defeated the Japanese fleet, but the admirals insisted only SOUTH eastern, since they couldn't conceive being surprised by a NE approach (which would only work as a surprise attack, with the SE approach being best for an anticipated attack).

[@ianmacfarlane1241]

To summarise : WW2 Nazi Germany Naval Commanders were incredibly sneaky bastards....... ..........however, they weren't anywhere near as sneaky as British teenage girls.

[@puppetmasterey]

Ian Macfarlane is about the story telling not the summary.

[@itechflagstaff]

That still holds true today.

[@thomasraahauge5231]

For those who had zero first hand experience with how to deal with teenage girls: You know *nothing* Jon Snow!

[@Debilitator47]

Nothing is as sneaky as a teenaged girl.

[@thomasraahauge5231]

Almighty: Behave yourself!

[@jameshorn270]

Regarding the success of the teenage girls, my own experience suggests that they were 'thinking outside the box" because they did not even know the box existed. For the experienced commanders like the admiral, the box was big and solid and it took a great deal of effort to get oustide it.

[@The_ZeroLine]

100%. just look at Henry Kaiser who had never built a ship before WWII: the existing shipbuilding experts said that they could only produce about half a dozen cruisers per year max and Kaiser managed to build hundreds or more per year where they thought only a handful was possible using ideas they couldn’t even imagine.

[@jonaskoelker]

There's a saying about generals always fighting the previous war. I reckon that's the box.

[@himemjam]

@@jonaskoelker The box is much bigger than that. Most military organizations are conservative in the true sense of that word. Just look at the Regimental standard of any British regiment. You'll see battle honors going back hundreds of years in some cases. They honor and revere their ("glorious, victorious!') history since the lessons learned come at a very high cost. Add to that the fact that most of these organizations are the very definition of "top down". Military discipline tends to value obedience and punish or ignore at best innovation. Most hew closely to institutional memory and reward close alignment with orthodoxy...UNTIL they get an order like "Set Europe ablaze" and then that same institutional memory can yield examples where orthodoxy failed - "Boer Kommandos" or if you go even further back "Maroons of Jamaica", as well as the mavericks (T.E. Lawrence, Orde Wingate, David Stirling or Robert Laycock) that can innovate.

[@himemjam]

@@The_ZeroLine Excellent example!

[@Schugger1]

Well, that is actually what makes a good commander - being able to recognize a good strategy and forget about your enormous ego and put that strategy to work (despite being arse-kicked by an eighteen year old school girl in a simulation five times).

[@jeric_synergy8581]

Too bad Admiral King couldn't put his fucking ego in the closet: those tonnage numbers after the US joined might have been a bit smaller.

[@sonofthewolfguardianofthef1214]

jeric_ synergy well WATU didn’t exist before the war and operation Raspberry wasn’t invented until 1942 and the Americans needed to move a lot of stuff more than all of the other allies combined up until that point not only did they need to transport their own stuff but stuff for the British and the Free armies and even Russia so no you’re wrong you can’t swallow your pride and implement a tactic that doesn’t even exist

[@Phantomrasberryblowe]

Robert Bennett Nobody was asking King to implement a tactic that didn’t exist. They asking him to do _simple, basic things._

[@therealuncleowen2588]

King got a lot of men killed due to his ego. May he rot in hell.

[@jimmytehgeek]

@@jeric_synergy8581 A brilliant incompetent

[@JohnDoe-on6ru]

-"Stop playing video games!" -"I'M TRAINING FOR WAR MOM LEAVE ME ALONE!!!!!"

[@AuxenceF]

It depend of the video game, if its wargame red dragon or Command modern operarions i believe you, if its call of duty, i don t

[@michaeledmunds7266]

@@AuxenceF I play PlanetSide, does that count?

[@AuxenceF]

@@michaeledmunds7266 it depends, i would say that if you lead a squad, it count.

[@JohnDoe-on6ru]

@@AuxenceF lol wargame red dragon? C:MO yes but RD no

[@tomsoki5738]

Arma?

[@The_MightyJingles]

If you ever read "Churchills' Ministry of Ungentlemanly Warfare" by Giles Milton it tells the story, amongst other things, of the bonkers mad genius who invented the Hedgehog. By an astounding coincidence there's even an Audible version.

[@wheelfan100]

The Mighty Jingles WTF FOUND DOUG DEMURO OH JANGLE

[@chrisbullock3504]

OMG JINGLES!!! i cant believe i saw you here. Have been subbed to you since you were less than 100k

[@DC9622]

The Mighty Jingles , excellent book, also Churchill’s secret weapons by Patrick Delaforce is good where they the toy box helped with the funnies, the AVRE was a marvel. Also think it is on Audible, at lot of Delaforce books are.

[@Der_Dekanter]

Sigh back to the salt mines you it is.

[@ADDuk19]

I was going to suggest the same book.

[@guyrandom9095]

4:36 "You can see that one of the members was rather unusual in that she had a red circle around her head".

[@QemeH]

16:15 - "The first person to see it becomes the coordinator." That's actually how high seas emergencies are handled today. There is a chilling record of the sinking of a passenger ship in the north sea, where everybody is searching for a ship that sends a distress call but isn't responding. And then as soon as one ship reports having eyes on, all other vessels one by one go: "[coordinator], this is the [ship name], we're X miles out, approaching from the west." and so on...

[@mgytitanic1912]

In all seriousness, if you wrote to the Prince Phillip asking for an interview to talk him about his time in the RN, and WATU, I think he'd grant it. People seem to forget that he was a very able commander, highly decorated and very successful with a very distinguished career.

[@diogenesesenna9323]

I agree with you completely. People forget that for all of his supposed Royalty, Prince Philip (Single L) is very down to earth and it isn't unknown for him to grant such an interview, especially since he could well be the last survivor.

[@mgytitanic1912]

@@diogenesesenna9323 That extra L was auto correct I suspect. The risks of using one's phone.

[@frykasj]

Unfortunately, I'm sure that's not going to happen now...

[@dELTA13579111315]

@@frykasj time to pull out the ouija board

[@kermitofficial9428]

Welll, at least one hoped

[@Iraski]

I was thinking while watching this how a wargaming group would be a great thing to write a military scifi novel around, but then I realized that's basically what Ender's Game is.

[@competent5761]

@WhomItMayConcern *Confusion*

[@ahandgrenade3640]

@WhomItMayConcern ????

[@o0hbomb0o]

With the crucial twist being that Ender and the squad of fellow kids Ender was leading in a war game turned out to literally be remotely piloting real human ships; guiding them to eventually obliterate the Bug homeworld and living queen.

[@darren561]

@@o0hbomb0o Imagine if they decided to do a little trolling since they thought it was just a fake simulation.

[@o0hbomb0o]

@@darren561 Oh man! Your comment reminds me of playing StarCraft online multiplayer with my friends in highschool. I was quite aweful while some of my friends were exceptional players. I got trolled all the time when we played together. If the units we controlled in those games were real, my friends would have been guilty of numerous war crimes. I'm also sure that mutiny and defection would have been rife among my ranks of soldiers.

[@malsypright]

Imagine having to live with a red circle around your head at all times... Jesus knows what it's like having a white circle, which is probably quite similar...

[@orlock20]

Not only that, the red circle has been known to be the red circle of misfortune when it comes to videos.

[@johndominicamabile]

"There was a major failure of imagination" -History of every government ever

[@safehavenonice6431]

"...Rather unusual in that she had a red circle [drawn] around her head." This. This is why you're one of the most entertaining people on KZbin.

[@khankrumgaming8926]

I love how explosions under water work. So counter intuitive it's hard to grasp for some. The damage is being done by the water rushing back to fill the area of gas created by the explosion. The little bomblets from the hedgehog are not what does the damage to a U-boat. They make a big bubble right on the surface of the U-boat by creating pressure higher than the water pressure, but as the chemical reaction slows down and the gas is cooled, the water pressure overwhelms it and begins to rush back very quickly. The boat's hull obviously didn't go anywhere so it isn't moving, it's just sitting there "waiting" for several tons of water to hit it at speed determined by the size of the bubble and difference in pressure. The hedgehog doesn't need a shape-charge to have a shape-charge like effect. It's penetration is always proportional to the depth the thing it hits is at.

[@xerothedarkstar]

Isn't that called "cavitation"? Sort of the same effect a pistol shrimp uses? Just for clarification. My thought trains run on odd rails.

[@clankplusm]

@@xerothedarkstar Yes but also no. Cavitation, technically is when a cavity becomes created in a liquid (usually water) containing nothing but water vapour, usually by movement in the water exceeding its ability to flow (sort of). This can be very much compared to the act of boiling water by reducing air pressure around it as the thermodynamic principles are very much similar... An underwater explosion actually is a concentration of gas expanding and displacing the water, so it is not actually cavitation (Not completely at least. There may be some cavitation forces involved as the gas contracts). However, the effects of cavitation are incredibly similar to this effect as once the inertia / energy of the explosion gives out it collapses. The main difference is in a cavitation bubble collapse there is a micro jet of water formed if it is against a surface (look up cavitation wear for boat / ship propellers theres cool diagrams on that) which I *Think* cannot fully form in a pressure bubble collapse. There is also the fact that in a cavitation bubble there is no gas left behind, of course,

[@ze_rubenator]

You should absolutely ask him for an interview. I don't imagine Prince Phillip gets a lot of requests for this sort of an interview.

[@gahane]

I agree. He's retired now and might enjoy talking about this. I'd edit out the Phil the Greek bit tho

[@masterson0713]

@@gahane who is he?

[@gahane]

@@masterson0713 Who is who? Phil the Greek?

[@masterson0713]

@@gahane yeah and the other guy

[@gahane]

@@masterson0713 Prince Philip and Phil the Greek are one and the same. To give him a better title, Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, Consort to Her Royal Highness Queen Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Basically, he's the husband of the English Queen. He's known also by his nickname Phil the Greek as he was born in Greece to the Greek royal family.

[@jeffmci16]

This is exactly why I wargame. So when the Emperor calls I can lead his Adeptes Astartes to victory!

[@tophermoose8464]

Or get consumed by chaos. 😜😜

[@sonofthewolfguardianofthef1214]

Maddog 204 I play Iron Warriors, Kreigsmen, and you can probably guess my main.

[@mostafaosama1745]

Yas thank bro 4 protec

[@Gamesplayed15]

I love how warhammer encompasses everything that exists. :)

[@sonofthewolfguardianofthef1214]

@@archimedesd5794no, me is super badass, become Astarte no problem.

[@latt.qcd9221]

4:50 So, school girl shows up in your her school uniform and then becomes one of the most effective military analysts of WWII. So, in other words, WWII was an anime.

[@jonkelly7908]

Luckily the Germans didn't have Tanya Degurechaff in WWI.

[@TheBayzent]

Yes, this was clear to me before I discovered the existence of W.A.T.U.

[@pinkbunny6272]

Or is anime inspired by ww2?

[@jkh77]

My name is Jean Laidlaw-chan and I'm late for my first day of defeating the Germans!

[@NemoForever338]

@@pinkbunny6272 Yeah. Its called "Two Nukes, One Japan".

[@johnmarshall9604]

And now none remain who attended WATU. May His Royal Highness rest in peace.

[@dELTA13579111315]

I thought about W.A.T.U. when I heard the news

[@Trotskyification]

This was a fascinating lecture - had me gripped from beginning to end. Thank you for informing me about something I was unaware of before.

[@NefariousKoel]

Tom Clancy ran a similar double-blind & referee'd wargame, including a chain of command, to determine the outcome of the Soviet cruise missile attack on the American Carrier Battle Group for his book 'Red Storm Rising'. Using Larry Bond's 'Harpoon' tabletop wargame back in the '80s. Interesting stuff.

[@ineednochannelyoutube5384]

Wait. Harpoon was tabletop before it was a compuitergame?

[@NefariousKoel]

I need no channel youtube -- Yes, Harpoon was originally a tabletop game created by Larry Bond back in the 80s. I first picked up the GDW version, as a kid, back in the '80s. Later got a couple Clash Of Arms versions in the 90s. I don't think they're currently in print nowadays, but I still have a CoA version.

[@ineednochannelyoutube5384]

+NefariousKoel You learn something new every day. I do doubt the tabletop approaches the complexity of the program though. They do train real military personelle with it afterall.

[@ineednochannelyoutube5384]

+SwissArmy1984 Command is overpriced and poorly optimized, and its simulation is shallow. Harpoon is better.

[@mrmegahousefly]

Queen Elizabeth II is the only head of state who is married to a stoker. I read that at the beginning of the War, Phillip Mountbatten was returning to Britain. The stokers deserted and Phillip Mountbatten was one of the Naval personnel who volunteered to keep the ship's fires burning. Those of you have been in the armed forces know what it is to volunteer in any of the services. Please ask HRH for an interview. He seems like a fun guy.

[@markfryer9880]

Nobody Important Well he has enjoyed stoking the flames of controversy over the years, saying things to the media which should not have been said. I wonder where he learnt that from?

[@nolategame6367]

Mountbatten?!

[@khankrum1]

Phillip earned his spurs and medals, unlike his waste of space son Charles!

[@rudolfpeterudo3100]

As the saying goes "once a stoker always a stoker". From an ex RAN stoker

[@danial469]

such that blood drinker off

[@booradley1138]

In the book The Battle of the Atlantic by Andrew Williams, here is the reason given for the flap: "'You would be told the time, visibility, and speed of the convoy, and you could see through a little cubby-hole in the booth the distribution of the ships...' When an imaginary night fell, the flap was dropped over the window and the escort officers had to rely on the chits sent by the WATU staff and their own record of the convoy's movements." (p. 205) The flap was to simulate night-time conditions, when the commanders wouldn't be able to see the locations of the ships, but would have to rely on radio communication only.

[@michaelsommers2356]

I think the explanation in the video is more likely. In your explanation, during "daylight" the players would have perfect intelligence, including the positions of the U-boats. Perhaps there were two flaps: one colored as in the video, and one black, to simulate night.

[@booradley1138]

@@michaelsommers2356 I am quoting Andrew Williams, who is quoting Lt. Comm. John Guest, who actually ran the game in 1943. It's not "my explanation," it's the explanation of the actual participants.

[@michaelsommers2356]

@@booradley1138 It still seems unlikely that the players were given perfect intelligence during simulated daylight. No matter who said it. It's your explanation in the sense that it is the explanation you presented, as distinguished by the explanation in the video.

[@booradley1138]

@@michaelsommers2356 The players were explicitly not given perfect information during daylight. The explanation I presented never claimed that players had perfect information during daylight. The explanation I presented was strictly limited to the purpose of the flap.

[@michaelsommers2356]

@@booradley1138 If the flap was only used to simulate night, then when gaming a daylight scenario the flap would not be used, and the players could see everything.

[@josephking7948]

Thank you for informing me about W.A.T.U. I had never heard of them before despite a long interest in WWII history. At the end of your video you mention how brave the RN commanders must have been to go and try the new tactic devised by the 18 year old school girls but the always seems to be very little mentioned about the thousands of Merchant Marine sailors who were jammed into overloaded, over insured rust buckets and when their ship was sunk all they had were the clothes they were wearing and oh yes, their pay stopped the minute their ship was sunk. Please mention those poor brave sadly neglected non military warriors of the war. Thank you.

[@stormywindmill]

And when they came home on leave after a voyage as most of them did not wear an official uniform. They were in line for abuse and scorn from uniformed personnel and civilians who were ignorant of the risks these brave men undertook to keep vital war supply lines open.

[@Zajuts149]

Horror movie reveal: "The U-boat is attacking us from inside the convoy!"

[@SebastianHonsa]

It doesn't happen too often for me to learn something new about U-boats. But here we go! Thank you, Lindy.

[@neilwilson5785]

I'm a big fan of this channel, but I think this might be the best thing Lloyd has done. Let's wait for the Duke of Edinburgh to confirm....

[@MajesticDemonLord]

Imagine if all of Lindy's subscribers wrote to Buckingham Palace and asked if the Duke of Edinburgh would grant Lindy an Audience to record (for historical record) the WATU training. if 630,000 people contact them, I'm sure they might entertain the idea.

[@Jablicek]

Given how hard he fought for a position of value and meaning within his role, he might be up for it. Then again, given his current health, maybe not. The worst thing that could happen is the question is asked and the answer is no.

[@vospersb.thorneycroft602]

Well unfortunately he might find himself up in the Tower of London on the rack being turned into a center for the LA Lakers🙄☺️

[@novaiscool1]

@Marry Christmas you never know old people like to talk about their younger years. Plus what else is he doing with his time, knitting?

[@DaveScurlock]

Fun fact: I used to work in the PSO answering HM’s mail! Good times

[@tomsoki5738]

Dave Scurlock do they actually pass any on to the queen? Or does she not see any of it

[@desertedmindscape6829]

You really should try contacting the palace and asking for an interview. Maybe team up with some of the historian's restoring the western approaches command. Its a part of the nation and his own personal history that is in danger of being lost so he might say yes.

[@gavindalrymple4309]

I remember reading HMS Ulysses, in one sitting, some time in the mid 1970’s. I only put the book aside once that Australian summer’s day. The story had drawn me into its world so convincingly that I went searching for a jumper to wear.

[@dralenvan]

This is a typical LindyBeige video. I didn't even know this interested me, followingly it interests me and it is the first 40min video I watched from start tot end on KZbin in months. He reminds me of my history-professor in highschool, he also gave his lectures in the same way. Also great to see the Yotube language-program finally acknowledges your English as something I can translate for my non-engish-speaking countrymen.

[@ryancasey4038]

A 41 minute video where Lindy talks about Wargaming AND military history? Yes, please!

[@markrussell4449]

Did we all get invited out to lunch with Lindy?

[@Canadian_Zac]

Wait a minute. She was told she'd be spending the war playing games, and burst into tears? That's like the best job ever. Away from the actual danger of the war, you play war games all day, and actually help contribute to the tactics of the armies.

[@wobblysauce]

But some did not think of it as helping/participating.

[@wigris2961]

Kharn The Betrayer maybe it was the relief that she wasnt about to face war

[@thomasraahauge5231]

Kharn: Well, wargaming had earned little - if any - succes at that time, and the prospect of spending the war playing with toy ships would have been dreadful to a young woman who just wanted to do her best to join the war efford. Imagine comming home to the boarding house and have souper. The girl next to you has been manufactoring bombs or airplanes, growing crops, cutting down trees, plowing, stitching up wounded bomb raid survivors, and you sit their in your pristine and neatly ironed uniform, and has to explain that you have been busy playing with tiny ships on a concrete floor. Not much fun when you literally just left school.

[@TheSerbianEmperor]

Thomas Raahauge WATU was highly confidential during the war I believe, so you couldn't even explain that much.

[@thomasraahauge5231]

TheEmperor: Well, that is true. And said young woman would probably not have any problems with keeping her work a secret, but for the purpose of the conversation (sitting in her school uniform, surrounded by men in uniforms), the thought of her war efford being toy ship handling could - at least at first glance - be less than joyfull.

[@kristikramer4111]

You are the passionate and charismatic history teacher/professor that most of us never had. Thank you for that.

[@juryrigged1654]

So, does that mean Warhammer 40k is just us trying to get an preemptive leg up on Xeno scum?

[@Holuunderbeere]

Yesn't

[@dwwolf4636]

So is Reddit/HFY

[@Digitaaliklosetti]

Yep. If it ever turns out aliens all like to have big dumb land war slugging matches on planets, we're ready for 'em.

[@jonathanhill8691]

who needs television? i havent watched in years!. thanks for the videos they are both informative and entertaining. to think i've walked past that building a hundred times and never knew it's history. i will make a point to visit one day soon.

[@GuitarsRockForever]

For the last 6 years or so, the number of times I watched TV, was extremely low. I can say literally I don't watch TV anymore.

[@mysteryshrimp]

14:36 Always take out the spellcaster first.

[@hashnotall6263]

Healer dies first, then crowd control.

[@loreman2803]

Wouldn’t war gamers have the bonus of being able to fail and learn without losing a whole country

[@MrGabol100]

I think that's the point.

[@wobblysauce]

That is the pointy end of it.

[@binbashbuddy]

Only in theory. Not saying it's not a good thing to wargame, our military is constantly wargaming, we even game out wars with (currently) friendly nations, but reality doesn't really always cooperate with your wargaming simulations.

[@martinez206045]

But wouldn't that just mean that the other side has better strategists?

[@washingtonradio]

The major idea is to be able to see what the issues for the various strategic options are for a given political situations. The major weaknesses of wargaming is the imagination of the gamers and the quality of the information used to develop the scenarios.

[@tanatoss1982]

Dziękujemy.

[@russellst9441]

Great to hear this! Thank you - I knew women played a huge role in Bletchley and production/supply of materiel, but didn't know at all how significant their contribution was to war gaming/tactical development. Brilliant stuff!

[@trequor]

I guess Ender's Game isnt that hard to believe

[@MerlijnDingemanse]

Well I mean in the book they literally take one of the smartest kids to ever exist and put him through years of brutal training. So yes, I say it could happen. As for the soviet union 2.0 the book describes its a bit less realistic

[@stevetheradroach2433]

No

[@OwenMichtofen-rx5yz]

Exactly what I thought! Great book from my memory

[@marsfreelander5969]

Movie was shit

[@adeisinger2033]

@@marsfreelander5969 ender game series except for the end it gets a bit strange

[@milonavarro]

I truly love your videos. your video always find a way into my research for school projects. i'm writing a paper on how gaming can improve knowledge motor skills etc. They way you present your videos makes me feel like im sitting there in a room with you and we are have conversation about this topic. You don't just throw information at me and expect me to memorize it, you engage me and i really think and get into a topic at hand without finding myself bored or feeling lectured.

[@harrisonbuck2749]

I dont know how this video went under my radar for so long, I watch all of your videos, this one was great!

[@itiscujo]

8:18 And now there are none left alive who've been through that course. RIP Prince Philip

[@fenix9885]

You make some of the best history videos I've ever seen. At 1st, I didn't like how long they were, but after watching enough it's all worth it. Not sure if you do these all in 1 take or splice them up, but you do a great job every time. Thank you

[@dannyhussain5489]

I've written a letter to Prince Philip asking him to consider having an interview for the benefit of the audience and historic posterity regarding the WATU

[@merryweather3713]

I love these long ranting videos. It's like historical ASMR that I can fall asleep to.

[@chrisofnottingham]

There's a movie in there. Except it wouldn't be as good as this video.

[@mutleyeng]

I was thinking a TV series - utterly fascinating story

[@cygil1]

The BBC would do it, since it's all about WAMMEN!, except they'd racelift half the cast into Pakistani Muslims wearing a WREN uniform that anachronistically includes a veil.

[@andrewtucker94]

@@cygil1 It's all getting a bit Daily Mail in here

[@kirbyculp3449]

@Marry Christmas When the admiral was 'spanked', make it the term of a wager.

[@RustySax1949]

There is one now - it's a six-part series from Sky History called "U-boat War Gamers," and all six parts can be found here on YT.

[@Alsatiagent]

From Wiki: "By 1944, WATU's existence was public knowledge. A journalist visited WATU in January 1944 to observe a wargame and published a short article in The Daily Herald. An exposé appeared in Illustrated magazine the following month." Is this possible? I had assumed this was secret for decades afterwards.

[@jtomos]

HMS Ulysses - one of my childhood favs. I've read it a dozen times.

[@Halorym]

"He was charging at it when his stern blew up" ...Clever girl.

[@PaganShredhead]

As to the anecdote about the corvette not being torpedoed while rescuing those sailors; German U-boat officers had a strict code of honour and would not fire at ships involved in a rescue attempt. This changed only after Dönitz ordered Total War measures and put political officers on every boat. So it would be crucial to know in which year this happened to actually be correlated with the new torpedoes.

[@lindybeige]

Yes, those on the British ship might have thought that, but it takes nerve to act on it.

[@adambielen8996]

Dönitz was ironically more honorable then the Allies.

[@markfryer9880]

Donitz only enacted his Total War Order after several U-BOATS involved in a rescue operation were attacked by US forces despite the presence of numerous survivors on their desks.

[@chaz8758]

Not all U Boat captains had a code of honour (or a nice code like people would like to believe), some were fanatical nazis who had no care. All U Boat crews knew live sailors could report on what happened so there were even in the early days reports of U Boats killing survivors of sunk ships (no survivor no proof it was a submarine) - likewise even after the order to not take prisoners - some captains still did rescue crew from sunken ships.

[@MerlijnDingemanse]

@@chaz8758 there is this guy who wrote a book on the 1421 exploratory chinese fleet who writes in his book that his former commanding officer actually got surprised by a sub but they were allowed to man and supply their lifeboats before the ship was torpedoed

[@therealkillerb7643]

Great graphs; we need more of them. In fact, we need as many as possible when talking about the German Navy. One might even say, we need a "Graph Spree!" Sorry, I'll leave now... ;-)

[@robertharris5453]

The Real Killer B 😂

[@therealkillerb7643]

Thank you, thank you. I'll be here all week - and don't forget to tip your waitress!

[@JarthenGreenmeadow]

High level history memes.

[@YeeSoest]

Upvoted for finding a way to incorporate my favorite ship into a joke about my favorite thing in the world...statistics...If i wasn't such a well mannered fellow I may have weed in my knickers, that's how delighted I am!

[@olliephelan]

A Graph Spree on the Graff Spee ?

[@vincivedivicilextalionas4036]

I really enjoy your lectures. Its like sitting in class at college during a history class and I can pick out the bread and butter of whatever I wanna hear a brilliant professor lecture about.

[@teucer915]

The WATU story deserves an entire book about it. I would totally read that.

[@RustySax1949]

There is one: "A Game of Birds and Wolves" by Simon Parkin.

[@BrownBessOwner]

Please do write to him and get that interview, before the details are lost to time.

[@TGBloke]

You really SHOULD ask for that interview you know. It's an important piece of history that might otherwise be lost.

[@obfuscated3090]

The old fellow might enjoy discussing this subject instead of silly tabloid fodder.

[@masterson0713]

@@obfuscated3090 who is he

[@bcn1gh7h4wk]

7:08 Fog-of-war™, model 1940. GENIUS!

[@Mr.Haveaword]

Llpyd your presentation skills are quite remarkable. Non stop, no edits, segways into an Audible sponsorship half way through the talk. Another good'un, cheers Lindy

[@MikeBracewell]

Easily one of the best vids you've done, Lloyd, fascinating & excellently presented. Thank you!

[@brycestava4465]

This is a perfect channel, the content is flawless.

[@neilwilson5785]

Yes, I keep coming back here. I've even been tricked into watching lindy hop content a few times. Strange.

[@lindybeige]

Er... well, if you ignore the constant trickle of corrections in the screen captions... Thanks!

[@Solinimo]

Bryce you're saying it as if it was news 😏

[@bennylofgren3208]

Neil Wilson Yes, what's with this strange brain washing... I haven't taken a decent dance step in my entire life, nor have I had any interest to learn, yet I have this oddly comprehensive knowledge of Lindy Hop...

[@antoshq1985]

Lindy is good, but his videos are biased, somewhat simplified and sometimes factually incorrect.

[@Familyman0838]

You sir are a master of your chosen field very entertaining and huge encompasment of subject matter and facts well done CARRY ON

[@royfernley3153]

Fully agree with your recommendation of HMS Ulysses, it’s a superb novel almost on a level with The Cruel Sea.

[@Belsen85]

Fully agree - I read it when I was 12 years old and it is still one of the most favorite books for me. And it is very correct about the description of the cold in the book. It was not that striking for me due to the fact that I lived in Murmanks that time, so kind of usual. But one thing the book really changed in my life - hot chocolate (Kakao) became my favorite drink in cold and dark polar nights.

[@MissMeganBeckett]

I love your enthusiasm for the topics that you cover, I’ve been having a bit of trouble lately concentrating on watching videos about things I’m interested in and want to know about, but with your videos I only have to rewind because my brain has wandered off maybe three times total per video which is a massive improvement for me lately.

[@davidobrien9362]

My absolute favourite clip from Lindybeige,watched many times and stunned by what I learn,along with the show about helmets in war,fantastic.

[@pineycolada3075]

Lindybeige is the only KZbinr who says: you are probably smart, we should have lunch some time. And that is what makes his personality

[@PwnzratorX7X]

Unfortunately my battle plans don't work out so well without a horde of psykers.

[@wigris2961]

Andrew Backfisch if only :/

[@adambielen8996]

That sound heretical to me. Unless you have the appropriate Commissars or Overseers in place to "protect" the psykers.

[@edmundscycles1]

Andrew Backfisch what do you think the side effects of drinking tea are ! Read any book on British military operations in WWII and you will spot a theme . Things got better after a mug of tea.

[@adambielen8996]

Christopher Bertoli I think exterminatus is friendlier to the planet than your idea.

[@louisvilleuav5794]

Retired army here. War gaming is is an essential part of every training and development cycle.

[@sayerslot]

retired boat here. Hi

[@JarthenGreenmeadow]

This was even part of negotiations recently with the US halting the annual joint SK war games. They are important enough to be used as political leverage if that tells you anything.

[@JoshuaRellick]

At what level of rank do soldiers start participating in running war games?

[@skele3310]

@@JoshuaRellick probably all commissioned officers have at least some war gaming experience.

[@thinklyrical]

Thanks for this "documentary" / video! I am so happy to have learned something more about "The Atlantic War" :) and all your other videos !! Dont stop, quit or surrender! Please continue Lindy!!

[@weseld1]

I have been a fan of your programs for quite a while, but this is the very best one you have done. Congratulations from an officer and war gamer, on presenting a very complex subject with great clarity. David Wesely

[@tomg5187]

I would pay money to watch lindybeige play civ 5 on twitch!

[@unbearifiedbear1885]

Biggest twitch channel never to exist

[@johnlansing2902]

Thank you for the great history! It is said a successful unit in any military draws upon the experience and interests of its people ( if a person is a great knife fighter then you have your knife instructor) but it requires a command structure that can admit this type of input.

[@markmaki4460]

It's darn good luck that the Germans they didn't have John Cleese or a 16 ton weight to help protect them against all that fresh fruit!

[@trequor]

Mark Maki Underrated comment

[@CraftQueenJr]

Or a tiger.

[@jop2663]

@@CraftQueenJr they had tigers tho

[@barelyasurvivor1257]

But The UK had the Ministry of Silly Walks to counter the Goose Step

[@kaganoztas4028]

Best Regard's from Turkey Lindybeige, You are one of the best youtuber. Thank you

[@janeitner5594]

Why is there no button like "like all his videos" or "love this channel" - I'd hit it immediately. Thanks Mr "Lindybeige"! And even I can't hit like and subscribe and whatever more 'cause I'm mostly listening to your videos while commuting by car to work and beyond :-)- know that every video I watched/listened to so far was amazing/awesome/great/fantastic/ u name it. Huge respect and thanks.

[@2adamast]

1870 Paris goes pfehh in a couple of weeks 1914 the Germans stop at 100 km from Paris while the BEF is switching from retreat mode to fighting mode 1940 The BEF is back from Dunkerque but _we didn't expect France to go pfehh in a couple of weeks_

[@danielkelly1335]

1800's france steamrolls the whole of europe for a decade

[@danielkelly1335]

and the franco prussian war lasted for a whole year but it did fo a it pfehh for the french

[@2adamast]

This brings us far back 1814 after a few successes in the six days campaign Paris goes pfehh in a couple of weeks 1815 after Waterloo Paris goes pfehh in a couple of weeks 1870 Is 2 months for the second empire, with the republic and the siege of Paris 6 months total

[@lomax343]

@ Admast - The BEF deserve NO CREDIT WHATSOEVER for saving Paris in 1914. Indeed, the actions of the BEF during the Battle of the Marne were dilatory and, frankly, reprehensible. What ACTUALLY happened was that the French stripped men from the south and transferred them (being on home soil and being able to use railways was a huge advantage the Germans didn't enjoy) to the NW of the German First Army. This army hastily re-positioned itself to face the new French Sixth Army - going from a front line roughly E-W to a front line roughly N-S in a couple of days. They were able to do this pretty much unmolested, because the troops they were facing - the BEF - was still busily retreating. Meanwhile, a few miles East, the German Second, Third and Fourth Armies were heavily engaged against the French Fifth, Ninth and Fourth Armies. The re-positioning if the German First Army opened up a gap between them and the German Second Army, which the BEF was ideally positioned to exploit. And the BEF did BUGGER ALL. The French did everything but beg them to attack - or even to simply advance into empty territory - but their response was lamentable. First they wasted time sitting doing nothing, then they advanced at a speed that would've shamed a snail. The upshot is that the Germans - realising that the gap between two of their armies meant that their position was untenable, and recognising that Paris wasn't about to fall - fell back (entirely unmolested by the BEF) to better positions that formed the basis for four years of trench warfare. Say what you like about the French in 1870 and 1940, but in 1914 they saved Paris despite their allies, not because of them.

[@2adamast]

I think the BEF acted in 14 like in 40: they fought a little then retreated a lot and in the end started fighting more. For the French, each time (70, 14, 40) the border was crossed Paris was very accessible. So the result in 40 should not be a big surprise

[@uderzo1984]

This is precisely why I love this channel. Fascinating history, thanks for sharing it with us Lloyd :)

[@Victor.-.E]

American here. A solemn tear for Prince Philip. Hail Britannia, and godspeed.

[@andersonkagel5558]

You absolutely should write to him for an interview! Even if you don't get a full interview, you may be able to at least correspond with him and get some questions answered; this is exactly the kind of obscure history that needs to be saved before it dies out and is lost, and you could be the one to do it!

[@panachevitz]

So the channel War Stories has made it onto my recommended videos list and the topics that youtube has recommended refer to this very topic. Operation Raspberry and other stories are worth a watch and from those videos I came here to see one of my favorite historians already having a discussion about this. :D

[@MrAlex_Raven]

My god, there's no page on Jean Laidlaw anywhere where I can learn more about her story and history. Maybe you can get in touch with some history folks or wikipedia and see if we can make something for her, since I'd love to learn more. I feel like I should have learned about the Western Approaches Unit and the women therein ages ago. Thanks tremendously for this video Lindybeige.

[@MrAlex_Raven]

Good on you mate. Thank you. There are other items like this of obscure history that are hardly covered in detail. Someone commented a sarcastic thing before thinking this was more so about the fact she was a woman. I am more so into this in the same way I enjoyed History of Rescue Flotilla 1 and the US Coast Guard at D-Day as presented by "The History Guy", another channel a lot like this. I wish Joe Plummer didn't remove his comment. in any case, thank you.

[@BobSmith-dk8nw]

Google is your friend. I'll post the links I found with some other comments I'm going to make. .

[@MrAlex_Raven]

Ah excellent. Thank you.

[@BobSmith-dk8nw]

No problem. Links and other comments posted now in another thread.

[@Raz.C]

Paused at 27:32 to explore possibilities: OK, so one sub keeps surfacing and submerging repeatedly? Sounds like it could be damaged. Perhaps the entire crew have been killed and this process is now ongoing. The other u-boats would likely then have arrived to offer assistance/ scuttle the stricken u-boat. And lastly, if they're not attacking, it might be because they don't want more ships drawn to the area, where a disabled u-boat (and more importantly its Enigma code books) might be captured. Putting all this together, my analysis is thus: Hitler, with his insane hunger for all things occult-esque, demanded the Kriegsmarine retrieve a Mermaid for him. The u-boat that was bobbing up and down had spotted one and was following it (hence the repeated up/ downing). Other u-boats arrived to help capture a Mermaid. One Royal Navy ship got a bit too nosy and so was shot, but the others knew their place, ultimately leading to the Kriegsmarine capturing the world's first Mermaid!!!

[@Raz.C]

cheers, mate. Though the comment seemed funnier when it was in my head, I'm glad someone got a laugh from it :)

[@sgtsharp1537]

another thing reason the ship which was rescuing the crew of the other ship wasn't torpedoed is that, a sinking ship is very noisy, and so the torpedoes, if there were any, would have homed into the sinking wreck instead.

[@adamkilroe9840]

That was brilliant. Interesting, informative, thought provoking. Thank you.

[@welshpete12]

Of all the stories that came out of the second world war , this must one of the most remarkable. Thank you for posting, without you it would never have become known !

[@lomax343]

I would like - if possible - more information on the organisation of convoys. First, every diagram I've seen shows convoys wider than they were long - eg eight columns of five ships was preferred to five columns of eight ships. How and when was this configuration decided on? Second, what were the ideal distances between ships - both fore-and-aft and side-to-side - and did these change when it was realised that U-Boats were operating inside the convoy?

[@justinokraski3796]

I reckon that would be to minimize their profile for broadsides

[@michaelsommers2356]

_"First, every diagram I've seen shows convoys wider than they were long - eg eight columns of five ships was preferred to five columns of eight ships. How and when was this configuration decided on?"_ Basically, a short, wide convoy would get past any particular point in the ocean more quickly than a long, narrow convoy, and thus be exposed to less danger from any particular submarine. Consider the extremes of a convoy one ship deep and one one ship wide. This was determined through operations research, a branch of applied mathematics. For a popular account of OR during the war, see Budiansky's book _Blackett's War_. I don't know the complete answer to your second question, but one very important factor was how well the masters of the merchant ships could keep station in the dark. Too close, and they will run into each other; too far away and they will lose sight of each other.

[@markfryer9880]

Part of the reasons for wide convoys over long convoys is detailed in the above answer but another consideration was change of course handling and the prevention of stragglers leading to drop outs from the convoy. As for the span and spacing issues that partly depends upon the convoy speed, Fast or Slow, Inbound or Outbound many ships in ballast. Early in the battle, convoys were very mixed bags, ships of various ages and condition crewed by many nationalities, not all of whom spoke or understood English as well as learning how to safely convoy.

[@chaz8758]

Convoys rarely sailed directly, they were often zigzagged to prevent accurate prediction of their exact positions at any time. So if you have a convoy with 5 rows of 8 ships, turning 45 degrees or more to port then sometimes it is going to be easier to change to 8 rows of 5 ships (the merchant men were of so many different types and ages, with crews and captains of varying skills and abilities that station keeping was a continual problem even just sailing straight).

[@99IronDuke]

From about 1943, the RN also had a towed noisemaker for use against acoustic torpedoes called a Foxer.

[@Desi-qw9fc]

It interfered with the technology that was used by escorts to find and destroy U-Boats.

[@uderzo1984]

This sounds like it could be a pretty good movie, young bright women producing life saving naval tactics :)

[@JohnyG29]

uderzo1984 It was a team of people, men and women. Besides, if they made it into a film they'd have to shoehorn in a love story and an American somewhere.

[@edmundscycles1]

JohnyG29 have you not seen 'Winston Churchill: Hollywood year's?

[@z_actual]

Ive been in touch with an actor/producer to that effect

[@trequor]

JohnyG29 Yeah... if we could keep it out of the hands of SJWs it would be amazing

[@edstoutenburg3990]

Or a mini-series on HBO or Netflix ect. Switching from the Wargames unit to scenes out on Escorts and Convoys.

[@Travelin2Wit]

Your style of presentation is itself entertaining and contributes greatly to the whole video. Thank you... off to Patreon!

[@ceooflovingthehomies9294]

I love how I not only learned about war gaming in the video but also learned about U-boat tactics and I’d never heard of an acoustic torpedo. Great info!

[@jacobblanton5179]

~8:10 Me: "MONSTER-RAT???" Name Caption: "Nicholas Monsarrat" "Oh. That... makes more sense I guess."

[@kieranfitz]

Lindy, lad, you know Philly boy is going to say something to get you demonetised.

[@TheOneLichemperor]

I'm somewhat surprised Phillip hasn't had the BBC demonetised yet!

[@Solinimo]

You can't just beep his words out, that would be disrespectful. But perhaps you could use some cathedral bells or royal trumpets

[@neilwilson5785]

I'm a bit of a lefty, but I like Prince Philip. The Duke of Edinburgh award scheme is really great, he speaks his mind, he's worked hard. He fought the Nazis. I can't speak for him, but I think he'd enjoy this video. I did.

[@BlackQback]

Old boy, I'm not even British (nor Greek or Danish) and I like Prince Phillip a lot. I'd take him home, if he'd be so inclined to come. I couldn't stop laughing for hours after his "Do you know they're now producing eating dogs for the anorexics?" comment to a blind lady with a "looking dog".

[@luksweam]

"Cruel sea" is the saddest book I have ever read. It is very well written but there are certain passages I wish I could get out of my memory.

[@Kerrsartisticgifts]

this is the best channel of youtube and you're the best presenter, teacher. I grew up and went to school in the U.K. from the late 1950's to 1970 and I just avoided paying any attention in history classes. The interest that you've managed to stir up in me at this late stage in my life is very surprising but welcomed by me. I think that as a kid in school, they killed the interest by their teaching methods. I would see a hero or heroine character developing, such as Joan of Arc and then she'd be burned at the stake. Galileo was locked away, I was in Catholic school but I saw Luther as a hero, Mary Queen of Scots didn't do well and I never figured out if she was a good guy or bad guy the way they told it. Bonnie Prince Charlie seemed like a French prince who risked the peasants lives to get a throne, I was Scottish but the English part of all the History stories I got wasn't any better, there was nobody to cheer for. They would all kidnap their own family members for power, or betray their own people for the favours of the King or Queen, they were not people I could relate to at all. But you put us in the shoes of the ordinary man and woman as well as the leaders and that draws me in to the whole scene you're painting and I'm really enjoying it. I never felt too Nationalistic or Religious or anything like that so I think that my attraction to some of the "enemy" or "opposition" the "other religion's spokespeople" upset my teachers, I don't know, sometimes WE are the bad guys in truth, that's just the way it is and ignoring that is how those never ending grudges start. I was in a class called "New Math" just before I left Britain, I only recently looked that up on the internet, if they would have explained their goals for us before putting us in that course, I'm sure our interest would have soared much higher in that too. Anyway, you really have my attention now, if you couldn't tell!

[@davidkennedy6208]

I really want to thank you for these vids, you make history (and military tactics) fun and much easier to follow than a lot of very serious books about the subject. Thanks for all this amazing content!!!

[@mochithepooh5368]

"They hadn't imagine that France would just go BLEEGH in a couple of weeks." Good shit.

[@chrisferatu1793]

Adm. Horton: “Alright, fifth time’s the charm; this time I’ll win! Janet Okell: *How about a good game of chess?*

[@RasseruS]

Lindy, could you get a group of veterans and reenact one of these games? Invite all services; army, navy, and air force. Even people with mix ranks and different experiences. It would be interesting, if someone who is active service to try one of these war games. Maybe the training over the years had changed depending on when they served? It would fun to have a few who served from other nations. Like some Americans, French, Germans, Japanese, etc. to join in this old fashion war game.

[@rayg.2431]

To be really accurate, you'd also need a bunch of teenage English girls who are good at math and quick learners. And possibly a similar group of nerdy male wargamers like I was thirty-plus years ago, although I fear the guys would just end up staring at the girls, and pay no attention to the convoy being sunk in front of them :D

[@fredonions2523]

This man is absolutely fascinating, brilliant information here, riveting stuff. What a channel, must be one of the best I've ever seen. Thank you sir.

[@conmcgrath7502]

Oh my God! Lindybeige, I thought you were great before but you have exceeded yourself! I had no idea of the depths of the strategies employed (by both sides) and of the active analysis being performed by 'ad-hoc' groups like WATU, making it up as they went along, marking chalk outlines on ordinary wooden floorboards, using intelligence (I mean it in both senses of the word) and actually developing and implementing counter-measures in real time. Amazing, given the constraints of the mediums of communication available. People today complain about slow internet speeds; those people were writing messages with a pen/pencil on a form, which was then encoded laboriously, which was then transmitted by morse code (what's the baud rate for morse code?), which had to be received by an operator, verified, passed along, decoded, then sent further to it's intended source, then sorted and analysed etc. The mind boggles! (mine certainly does). The organisation, the foresight, the improvisation and the sheer bloody intelligence (again, both meanings) is just staggering. Comments shouldn't be this long, but I can't help it....Bletchley Park has 'had a good airing' by now, WATU is completely new to me, I bet there are other groups not even mentioned yet (and some that don't want to be?) BUT here is a Life Challenge to you....... to describe the apparatus of British Intelligence as it evolved 'about' the Second World War in as insular a fashion as may be pertinent but in as wide a chronological order as is possible....it might be easier to say 'blow-by-blow' but given a wider context; in scope from the need, to the people, to the organisation, to the systems, to the implementation, to the actions, to the new technologies, to the outcomes and then the adjustments for same...... to put all that in context is probably more than a life's work and probably more than several volumes....it should be done and needn't end there ie after Britain turned over the secret Turing machine tech to the US....WELL....... My last and final point, such a huge work might be done in collaboration, with the right team, anything is possible. Pax Dude