The whispers about traction control in dirt racing never go away

[@frankbruegger9094]

You mentioned good news for race tracks so here's some. This past Saturday the City of Calistoga held its first Calistoga Fairgrounds clean up. This included the race track. There are supposedly more to come but the track portion of the fairgrounds looks much better. Still lots to go.

[@jefferywilson4091]

Took the wife to whistle stop this weekend. Met Andrew the owner. Great guy. Keep up the great work guys.

[@E_Stear_59]

Traction control is a lot more easier than most people think 90% of the time it isn’t inside of the mag it is on the back of the block behind the torque tube.

[@jasongariss5858]

That and most of the the tech guys have no clue how to identify anything but what they have been shown to identify is actually very easy this is why there's 3 teams that win all the time in the midgets it's very simple to hear and super easy to have in place on them just nobody knows what to look for with it they can look in the box all they want nothing looks out of place or added in the box it's in the programming in the boxes

[@oneninerniner3427]

​@@jasongariss5858 what do they use for a reference signal?

[@robertraber4770]

Was just there last Saturday night for there last race of the year. They were going to do it last year put didn’t. So cool they are now doing it. The back stretch bleachers are all new and aluminum.

[@robertpcrowther]

Wow Once in a Row, a Thumbs up today for You

[@mattrobinson6594]

i remember when late model driver scotty haus was on the cover of a magazine with the caption "traction control and whos using it" its funny, he didnt run as good after that in central PA

[@RonF-t2g]

Kudos to Kokomo! Those grandstands were a bit sketchy. Don’t go by me though. Port Royal has spoiled me.

[@JimmyJolly-d8v]

I believe it's being used in latemodels also

[@rayisland23]

I remember back in the day when drivers were talented enough to adjust to the changing conditions of the track. Between cockpit adjustable shocks and traction control, it seems like the only thing missing today is talent

[@jag92g]

Mark Richards had an article years back about traction control and compared his lap times with and without and he noted it just made him more consistent which would be faster overall but he still wasn't as fast as his house driver at the time.

[@trentonseibold4806]

Wouldn’t be a day ending in Y without drama lol

[@manga12]

I remeber hearing someone that had a racing oriented channel that admited to using it at a small indiana weekly show and said it does only make a little differance its not the panecea that people think it is, because of the nature of the loos dirt its slick and loose only soo much you can do to lock a car down on that, trying to remember who said it though. improvements at kokomo are always good, the care they take cleaning right away and the permenent grandstands are welcome compaired to some tracks that have bleachers that are worse then a little league park, now if they would just get a bit better food opions, I love it there minus getting sandblasted as the track drys out fast, but its fast and the racing is a serious fight.

[@tokeypokey]

Because its a real thing. Lots of ways to do it. Lots of ways to hide it. And with how shitty tires are these days it makes an even bigger difference

[@michaelkruse6536]

I know on Saturday at trophy cup, the Snow crew was yelling at Peck during the first red of his heat telling him to flip the switch. I never asked him or his crew what that meant so I’m not sure if it was a mental thing or traction control or timing retarder

[@Seeitatwhatitis]

I was blamed for traction control once. The track was a little slick and I was not spinning and you could hear it. I realized what was going on by the second lap. I had changed the carb after the heat race that I had rebuilt, well I forgot to set the float. When I would lift going into the turn the carb would flood over and it would blubber through the turns and clear out coming off. When I pulled three random spark plugs out at tech that were completely black they finally realized that after all the looking they had already done it was likely that they were not going to find anything.

[@Lake_Lover]

That was a really interesting picture of Kokomo grandstands being taken down. I thought their grandstands were okay. I've certainly sat on worse. I bet it'll be really nice when its done. I dont live too far away, maybe I'll check it out next year. Then again maybe I better stay home. Last 4 years I've tried to go there it's a rain out - LOL.

[@japanesetoenglish]

Traction control is a scourge. We know that the technology exists, and we know that in other forms of motorsport it makes a huge difference to lap times. From my observations here in the UK, it is the grippier tracks where is makes MORE difference, not less. And far from levelling things up, it allows the teams with expensive engines to maximise the benefits of their superior torque. In other words, it increases the relationship between spending and results, which, in my view, is the opposite of good racing. It also reduces the agency of the driver, which, again, does not make for good racing. We want similar cars that are hard to drive to that the driver makes the difference. I thought that would be a widely-shared opinion. But over here there seems to be little appetite to police these technologies.

[@richardvaldez1307]

Calistoga yes plz . May b we can race again?. Miss it

[@waynenorman5909]

ASCS checks them a lot. I saw it myself this weekend.

[@billschaefer3818]

How do they check for it?

[@waynenorman5909]

@ they check it thru the MSD ignition box.

[@billschaefer3818]

@@waynenorman5909 MSD box has a rev limiter in the box when you buy them new and you can change it at the track, Yes they are legal.

[@JeffWade-jq6ib]

I think THE DTWC should go to the most improved track. Let them recope some of there investment and show the world there track. Ps Good topic for discussing.

[@TroutHunter16]

Great idea. Let's start with pennsboro next year

[@ChristopherWest-hc3nr]

You mean this year track looks great @@TroutHunter16

[@billschaefer3818]

Who picks that Track then? That deal would remind me of NASCAR's Fan's Favorite Driver award. Where the Pay day is the biggest is where the Racers want to race at. Sprints would be Knoxville - Eldora is Late Models. Late Model good drivers want all the money going to the top 10 drivers only from what I see at their big races. (one lane track Earl B.) That's why Davenport dislikes Knoxville I think. Knoxville normally is a 2-3 wide racing all the time if rain don't mess it up. They have the best track prep crew (family) on Earth.

[@JeffWade-jq6ib]

@billschaefer3818 bill iwould Luke to see improvements rewarded for there efforts of other tracks love the Big E but there many other tracks that deserve those crouds that the DTWC..provide.

[@JeffWade-jq6ib]

@@ChristopherWest-hc3nr my reply to Bill's post may clarify my thoughts.

[@chriswood9815]

Just a different angle: if we standardise the unit (e.g. a closed box system with 50% support system), could this not help reduce some long term costs? E.g. tyre usage, less wrecks from spinning out, etc

[@johnrichards3561]

Ben using it 4 yrs

[@landonmurray3814]

Ugh

[@DimMakTen]

Traction control is way less effective in dirt oval race than other type of racing. Traction control rumors have been around for atleast 20 years. The davis traction device caused alot of waves but cant even think of a time someone has been caught with anything.

[@jamiecrawford8133]

Been around longer then that. I had a local IMCA type modified driver tell me he tried it and didn't like it and would sell me his TC unit for 1500 about 20 years ago.

[@devonmangiarelli3886]

It's easy for other drivers to claim "traction control". So many drivers have such an ego how could they lose why arnt they winning? As we know no one has been caught and if they were we'd know about it. Pretty much every track in every class in every sanction prohibits traction control and doping tires. Both of those come with hefty fines and hefty suspensions. Now if you go to biger money RWYB races you'll find most the real competitors run both.

[@TreadMotorsports]

Traction control works great at low speeds - it may even work great at high speeds with high Rpms in something like forumul or nascar where the Rpm band isn't as violent and the rpm changes are steady.. But for dirt cars, especially big powered engines that see a wide range of Rpms that is constantly jumping and jerking around, it's not worth even attempting... You gotta think what is going on here... high compression with a lot of heat mixed with a fuel that is cooling the whole time it is being crammed into its cylinder so it can be fired at the right moment - and people think laying down the timing is a smart thing ( 👍 👌 ok ) And lets not forget there are times when you wamt tire slip/spin - Its how you setup and follow through with a slide job - its how you get around the top - the bottom - in and out the turns... there is more driving physics going on here than any computer can understand... You can control Rpms with a computer, but the computer can't compromise intensional and unintentionally with this many variables...

[@jasongariss5858]

Go watch midgets they have no problem with traction control

[@champeyon489]

That’s why it’s controlled in the seat. Turn the TC off for a slider back on once you clear.

[@TreadMotorsports]

@@champeyon489 yea no....

[@billschaefer3818]

It works great on Dirt fast also. I knew a few cars that run it at times and they said it is great when you know how and when to use it. I have never worked with it myself because it is high priced and we didn't travel long distance.

[@billschaefer3818]

There are Traction Control things that don't require electricity to work, Once a team and driver learns how set the car and TC up right, They will be the fastest car on any track if the other cars don't have it. They have one that you just put in the brake line. It is not a shut off valve, It is a restricter valve that is made for hobby stocks running drum brakes on the rear axel. they can be bought with different pressure ratings. Worked great on a hobby stock with a disk brake rear end. Buy a higher pressure one and it might work on a late model also. Best part of is it looks like a brake line coupler sleeve. And hard to see.

[@ANotSoHotRodGarage]

Inwont say who i worked for but we had two different TC, we had one that used a sensor hidden inaide the front spindle and one inside the rear end. We also tried the Davis version that was just a plug in chip the size of a hand. A ump official told me it was hard to police it because if they were to penalize someone for thinking they were using it they better dam be sure they had it because of a possible lawsuite. Just because someone had the plug for the davis unit was not justification to penalize someone.

[@intercal304]

Traction control hasn't been hidden in the MSD boxes for ten years it's hidden in the plug lead

[@danamcintyre3565]

Have you seen any of the updates from Pennsboro speedway

[@ChristopherWest-hc3nr]

@@danamcintyre3565 yes its ready to go looks fanstastic Barry Braun and crew done a great job.

[@ChristopherWest-hc3nr]

Its ready to go Barry Braun and crew done a fantastic job.

[@Thumper68]

Everything I drive has traction control…my right foot.

[@topmfg5505]

Or a good setup lol all the idiots who don’t do there own work find any excuse possible

[@Thumper68]

@@topmfg5505 yeah I haven’t ever let anyone touch my vehicles. People nowadays don’t bust knuckles anymore. Most of them are real soft.

[@stevenbuis4490]

I have traction control on my HARLEY trike😂

[@setituptoblowitup]

I seriously thought TC was you're right foot...🤔

[@landonmurray3814]

That's just axsom i think

[@billschaefer3818]

On a drag strip the right foot is great, on a Circle Track or Road Course your left foot is what wins the most Races and Championships

[@saltybildo9448]

He was jerking the interviewers chain when he said it . He said so 😜

[@bobroberts2371]

Look up " Formula 1 Option 13 "

[@dennysmith5235]

😂... brilliant

[@747RacingTeam]

This past summer, Travis Arenz from the IRA had his MSD box was taken under the suspicion that he was using TC. It came back clean but it was very obvious to the people in the stands that he WAS using TC, I and many other people could hear it.

[@hulltech4956]

Yeah, he tried saying the reason his engine sounded like that due to feathering the throttle.

[@billschaefer3818]

All MSD boxes have a RPM limit devise in them. That what made everyone think it was TC. Open the box and pull out the 9000RPM one and put in a 7000 one and it makes the car run bad when you hit the RPM switch you have in it. They don't call that T.C. and is legal. It should be Illegal in my book but it is legal, Slow's down breaking motors all the time.

[@747RacingTeam]

@@billschaefer3818 I did not know that. Thank you for your insight!

[@mick9371]

I think they should just let traction in

[@DBENTLEY369ig]

Why EV is so difficult to legalize for competition

[@coryblouch-tl2tc]

In both Outlaw and high limit series need to hire someone with experience with traction control offer them in an incentive to find it like money and you will find who is doing it cuz it's a lot of them!!

[@kclaptraffic]

Sweet has had it for years, notice his rear rotor is always glowing when others aren't. His always sparks coming off the corner not entering the corner.

[@sweetdaddydee1314]

​@@kclaptrafficthat is called braking 🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️

[@tokeypokey]

​@@sweetdaddydee1314except he doesn't lose any momentum when he "brakes"

[@jacobstanfield1564]

​@@tokeypokey It is trail braking. He isn't letting off the gas and rolling on the brakes to get in the corner. On some tracks, we would have to drive like this in go-karts. The top 5 in every feature would have glowing rotors when the track called for that driving style.

[@billschaefer3818]

The guy that designed and perfected and built T.C. worked or did work for The World of Outlaws full time. Open Wheel and Stock Car Racing Mag's both had stories about it. He said clear back in the 1990's nobody could find his setup.

[@johncarter1137]

Leave the driving to the drivers.

[@RCRWJR]

Brad Sweet checked his car for Traction control it wasn't there , I really don't think these top guys would use it.

[@billschaefer3818]

He owns H.L. do you think his car was checked properly.? Brad checked his own car, is what it said.

[@rogermccluskey2227]

I know how but i wont. We are racing, not cheating

[@jimscott5705]

Leave traction control for F1!!!

[@patrickrushton22]

Sulking Sammy was butt hurt, and he got smoked by a guy that uses an open trailer.

[@billy9995]

Bluetooth crank trigger......

[@tokeypokey]

Shock sensors. You put 2 or 3 pieces of the pie together and you get a whole

[@billy9995]

@@tokeypokey officials are either clueless or it's not being policed hmmm

[@tokeypokey]

@@billy9995 somthings are better left unnoticed. Its why they wont change to EFI. You can build a 900hp stock alluminum block LS motor for 20-25k but its ok to spend 50 or more on squeezing the SBC flatform dry. World keeps sprint cars expensive they don't want average Joe's beating them like they do in PA they want a walled garden like Nascar has

[@billy9995]

@tokeypokey you speak truth bro....from pa hate how the woo has controlled things for too long it's why the bb was banned tired of getting their asses handed to them

[@billschaefer3818]

@@tokeypokey Who is building a 900 H.P. Allumium block Sprint Car motor for $25,000 dollars that will last more then 1 night? I used to work on Sprint Cars at Knoxville Ia. back in the 1980's. No Race Engine builder in the Country back then would. Gaerte and Shavers wouldn't. You can't even buy a Top Late Model motor for that money in 2000.

[@kclaptraffic]

It hasnt been hidden in the box for 20 years. Most sprint cars use the braking system, it uses pressure of the power steering/wing slider pump.

[@daleweis3712]

Racer celbrate cheaters. " if your not cheating your not trying." Same people vilify anyone who is caught cheating. WTF! RACERS ARE ALL HYPOCRITES. I PERSONALLY SEEN THIS IN YREAEARS OF PARTICIPATION.

[@billycook-rm3xu]

They are using TC Everyone knows it.

[@mitchell-wallisforce7859]

Obviously, I've no problem with diligently checking for rule-breaking in this area (cheating bad), but a part of me does find it slightly amusing that among the sanctioning bodies most concerned with this is one originally founded on cars that were.....uhh, _outlawed_ elsewhere. Hehe.... Could be an interesting exercise to hold one race a year where TCS is legal, just to see if and how the characteristics of the cars change (if you're willing to accept TCS cutting in aggressively, you could run less wing angle for example). 10K to win, somewhere where traction is at a premium. Hell, maybe tech inspection for an event like that could teach officials what to look for on potential cheater cars.

[@aaronward3882]

If I was asked to design a traction control system, I would create a valve stem that tracked rpm of the right front and left rear and transmitted the data back to the msd box via blue tooth which limit rpm of the rear wheels.

[@callummcleod6362]

why use a valve stem - the digital bleeders could probably be configured to do it for the rear

[@777HPNEXTGEN]

Traction control on dirt is an oxymoron

[@Fulford71]

@@777HPNEXTGEN apparently you’ve never ran a dry slick track…

[@777HPNEXTGEN]

@@Fulford71 lack of setup

[@Fulford71]

@@777HPNEXTGEN i mean you’re not wrong there… more of an easy button really. Far from an oxymoron tho.

[@777HPNEXTGEN]

@@Fulford71 I can see how it would work on asphalt but on dirt idk. On dirt I would think it would stop the car from rotating which is needed on dirt.

[@Fulford71]

@@777HPNEXTGEN to be fair i was thinking fender cars.. sorta goes back to your setup comment. On dry slick if the car is set up correctly you really don't need much tire spin. Rear steer and stagger should get you around the corner. Or else you'd likely be ungodly tight. I'm not well educated on how it all works but i do believe it allows for some wheel spin still. I never really thought about sprint cars running it tho, never ran one but feel like they are so throttle and brake dependent to turn. Who knows lol

[@byronjones6155]

Do an episode on drug use within sprintcar racing, many are using to there advantage.

[@DoctorElleGrumpy]

I'm getting older. If there is a drug that will make me a better driver, please fill me in.

[@billschaefer3818]

My home track if your caught using your done racing forever, plus they contact all the tracks in the area and your bared at them also. I heard tracks all over the USA are doing the same thing also. Auto Racing is dangerous enough with out it.

[@drunkashull]

I'm old enough to remember when Tyler walker and the 35 car was allegedly using traction control and that's why he was kicking all the old guard's ass!

[@dennysmith5235]

I was tech in the Playstation version. I got DQed

[@jag92g]

TW had Ricky Warner as the crew chief which had a lot to do with the speed. Watched TW in 35 lap up to 4th at an AllStar race and probably would have lapped the field if it were not for a late caution.

[@official_savage9027]

Schatz has been using traction control for decades. Anymore he just puts it in the for the big shows then other shows he's middle of the pack guy.

[@ldnwholesale8552]

Track improvements? How about proper fences with proper catch fenes above. Fences here in Oz are continuos around the complete track and have at least one gate to get cars on and off the track. So racers do not have sharp edges to crash into. And they do not end up out in the bushes in the dark. Catch fences mean cars do not get out in the crowd and it seems these regs have got tighter. I have see several sprinters hung on the fence and midgets over the fence. I have seen sedans also caught in the catch fence. Traction control? Nothing new, I have heard sprints go 'flat' on really slick tracks. Probably hurt more than helped but ignition defenitly being retarded. This at least a decde ago.

[@DillanBaldwin67B]

Tractional control is extremely dumb because you need a little bit of wheelspin to be quick

[@kclaptraffic]

They can be adjusted to give you just the right amount of slip.

[@RyanMatthew6]

​@kclaptraffic yes you are correct, but there is a big difference, between wheel slip, in a sprint car and drag racing..It wouldn't serve the correct purpose in dirt track racing...

[@kclaptraffic]

@@RyanMatthew6 I don't know anything about drag racing, the only experience I have with traction control was on an asphalt late model several years ago, it didn't stop wheel spin it just controls it, it keeps the tires cooler and gives you less tire wear, in an asphalt environment it really doesn't effect handling as much as longevity. I'd imagine this would be exaggerated in dirt racing, especially on a dry, high wear track.

[@billschaefer3818]

Quick Change gears

[@billschaefer3818]

@@RyanMatthew6 Wheel slip in a Sprint Car-any race car, works the same way- Cleans the tire - dirt- cleans the dirt out of the grooves, Drag Racing it cleans the burnt rubber off the tire.

[@RyanMatthew6]

Traction control devices, which are used in drag racing, wouldnt serve the same purpose, in dirt track racing. There will always be, way more slip in dirt track racing, to a point where it would make a car slower. Anyome who knows about racing, or has common sense, would know, and see this......

[@billschaefer3818]

Traction Control for dirt cars must be different then drag cars.. 2 twin brothers- great drivers- 2 twin race cars. 75% of the time the TC car will win, the car is smoother and easier to driver with TC. Thats what Drivers that tried it told me. They were the top drivers in their days. They all said they only run it for a short time because if you was caught you was done racing for life. No I'm not telling their names.