The WiFi in the M4 MacBooks is unacceptable

[@Clickworker101]

256 Gb in 2024 is unacceptable. I had more on my MacBook from 2011. The markup on the upgrade is about 1000%. Compared to m.2 memory price differences

[@Nonyo-m7h]

Cloud storage wasn’t heavily used back then, and it was probably a SATA III drive at best. With Thunderbolt 5 speeds, it's even less of an issue, not having Wi-Fi 7 though… that’s another story.

[@rbjk]

If the mac mini was $800 but had 512gb, would you say that’s a good deal?

[@mrrolandlawrence]

its totally fine. In a corporate world - policy is that nothing stays locally on your machine. Its a security risk and downloading stuff can see you fired. Companies way prefer 16gb ram & 256gb storage over 512gb storage & 8gb ram. On the company machines ive seen setup. On a 256gb machine, most have 180gb free still.

[@trappedcat3615]

USB Sata drives are an option if you need speed

[@trappedcat3615]

​@@mrrolandlawrence Apps and updates consume most of my storage .

[@il0vewikipedia]

They charge 230 EUR for the 512 GB SSD upgrade (512 GB to 1 TB). That's a much bigger problem with the Macbooks, if you ask me.

[@mrrolandlawrence]

the biggest issue is not using standard connectors so you cant slip in your own. Not just for upgrades but also for replacements should one fail. Apple use "pro" for when they mean premium. Not pro as in workstation / professional use & abuse.

[@GlobalWave1]

@@mrrolandlawrence Well pro can be a misnomer for different people. For photo, video and music production it’s clearly pro since you wouldn’t really take and abuse it in that scenario. I guess I agree with you as well to a degree.

[@tnypxl]

@@il0vewikipedia I’d like to see someone purchase similarly performant SSDs for less.

[@il0vewikipedia]

@@tnypxl But I'm not gonna lie... I love my Macbook Pro M1 Pro. In the end you're paying for the whole experience, having the hardware in that sleek device etc.

[@il0vewikipedia]

​@@tnypxl I posted a different comment with a link to an SSD comparison site that probably got blocked. Here is what that comment said without the link: M3 Pro 1TB reaches around 6200 MB/s write speed (seq). Read speed is a bit lower, around 5000 MB/s. For USD 125 you can get the Crucial T700 1TB Gen5 which reaches ~9000MB/s read and write speeds. If you want to spend less there are slower drives starting around €70 (matching Macbook speeds) in the EU, I guess similar prices in the US.

[@RH-jj7ck]

year 2025: NEW MACBOOK PRO WIFI7 REVOLUTIONARY SPEEDS

[@sebastianmandrean]

The effective speed isn't just a function of signal strength, but channel width! Make sure your access points are running at 160 MHz width for 6 GHz and 80 MHz for 5 GHz, instead of the UniFi default values 80 MHz and 40 MHz respectively. This should roughly double the available bandwidth for a single client. Trade-off between speed VS. stability. At home you can prioritize speed, while in an office environment you might want to prioritize stability against interference etc.

[@masterflitzer]

while this is good advice, the iphone wouldn't be 3x faster if the router settings wouldn't allow it, theo demonstrated a clear difference between wifi 6e and 7 here

[@Z4KIUS]

to be fair professionals use wired networking for important stuff

[@GlobalWave1]

To be fair the fact it comes with WiFi 6E and our iPhone has WiFi 7 is insane. 😅 It’s not their fault entirely but he’s right. Apple has their chips ready way before releasing their products.

[@TalkingDonkeyz]

*some professionals

[@matt_hart]

yes, but apple is selling a wireless workflow to professionals. it would be different if apple were all in on wires and marketing that doing anything wireless was pointless. of course apple still knows wires are useful, that's why they didn't get rid of every port on the mac. and theo recognizes that as well; he explicitly said multiple times that he's not expecting to get 10gbit speeds on wifi. the issue is that he's getting 500mbit on a 5000$, maxed out macbook pro, which is arguably apple's flagship computer to professionals. especially when even his iphone can get triple that. and it's not like it's a supply thing for them, cause their pro iphones sell 80-100 million units per year, and their macbook pros sell no more than 5 million

[@daillengineer]

@@matt_hart he should be getting 5x that over 6E

[@imho4990]

@@GlobalWave1 NOBODY USE WIFI 7

[@umutcakmak3221]

Of course if it's really what a person wants, they should go for it but i don't think a computer normally can be worth 5000$. That's insane. That makes 5-10 monthly salary in Turkey. And i'm sure it still means lots of money in first world countries too.

[@RYN988]

This is a good rant, and everything you said makes total sense. Even if Wi-Fi 7 isn't widely used now, it will be in a matter of a year or two. When you invest thousands of dollars in a new MacBook Pro, you expect it to last several years, so some expectation of future-proofing is reasonable.

[@RunForPeace-hk1cu]

future proofing a laptop is a dumb strategy.

[@masterflitzer]

@@RunForPeace-hk1cu it's not, 2012 macbooks have lasted a decade, so will a m1 pro and so will a m4 pro machine, also in this case it's literally only future proofing 1y (wifi 7 released this year and they finalized m4 mbp last year probably, else it would have wifi 7), a $5k machine should be good for many years and wifi 7 is already here like demonstrated in the video, so not really future proofing at all in this case

[@amarthrogue]

M4 is over 6 months old, being shipped with the iPad Pro in May, which also has WiFI6E. They probably couldn't be arsed to update the chip to work with the new WiFI/BT module thats in the iPhone 16 Pro.

[@SebasContre]

Yep, exactly that, M4 is based on A17 chip (iPhone 15 Pro), a that is only WiFi 6E

[@JuiceJonesCreates.]

This is the review and knowledge I needed before making an upgrade or holding off on it. Thank You Theo

[@skirwan78]

you'll be disappointed when it's still 6e next year. No one is deploying 7 in the next 3 years. We're still deploying 5. If you're serious worker you're hardlining in.

[@jeffersonmp4]

​@@skirwan78meanwhile new iphones have wifi 7

[@KaKi87]

No, because if you were in the same case as Theo, you'd have handled it the same way on your own. That's why this video is on the secondary channel : it's not about recommending people not to buy it, but trying to reach Apple and make them give him what he needs.

[@JuiceJonesCreates.]

@ lol okay

[@BlackPanthaa]

that and no info on the encoders... yet the iphone boasts double performance like what?

[@KainSwiss]

I have the M3 Macbook pro, I didn't even bat an eyelid at the M4 as I was thinking the same logic as you! With a Wifi 7 router and the iphone 16 having wifi 7 compatibility, I expected the macbooks would have gotten it also. I'm running nas also, but time will tell if they do this wifi 7 for future models

[@Cooper3312000]

THANK YOU!! That the first thing I said when I looked over the specs will be waiting for the 2025 model with hopefully a redesign and hopefully an OLED 120+ Hz screen. Thunderbolt 5 is nice though was waiting for that as well now I'll know forsake it will be on the next years model. Just upgraded to 100G ethernet at home so will test that bandwidth. Hopefully the WiFi7 will be 320Mhz as well as they skipped the higher bands on the iPhone capping the top speeds. If the spec wasn't ready in time hold back the launch Apple, Oh and don't put it on the iPhone if it's not ready yet!

[@Winnetou17]

Oh, but there's no need to worry. Apple is so customer-focused and their products are so repair-friendly that you can simply buy a Wi-Fi 7 card for $50 from the internet and swap the card in the laptop with the new one. Right ? Right ? Now guess what will NEVER be a problem for a Framework laptop user...

[@mattbosley3531]

Well that just gives you and others a reason to wait until next year for the M5 with 802.11be to upgrade. Maybe they'll bump the minimum storage to 512GB, too.

[@triforceparas5658]

The biggest issue i see in MacBook is that they supply 512gigs of storage in a 2000$ laptop and in my country it nearly costs 2400$

[@Werdna12345]

8:45 I think the most likely is that Apple couldn’t get enough wifi 7 chips so they prioritized the iPhones (I think around 50% of their revenue). I agree that it is ridiculous for Mac to be slower than iPhone. I’m curious is there is small WiFi 7 usb c adapters that can just live plugged in and not stick out a bunch

[@rowan-paul]

What I noticed with Wifi 6 in my pc is that there aren't a lot of other wifi 6 devices yet, so I can use the full bandwidth available to me

[@mrsrhardy]

Strike 1, 256gb base storage! Strike 2, Wifi6E with wifi7 is now out (and on the mobile) Strike3.... its apple after all

[@paulwoodward8265]

Headline price for Mac mini is OK, but please don't pretend it competes with mini PCs at this price point. That base Mini is borderline unusable with 256GB storage. For $600 I could get this: Beelink SER8 Mini Gaming PC, Ryzen 7 8845HS 8-Core 16-Thread 5.1GHz Processor, 32G DDR5 RAM 1T SSD, 12-Core GPU 2700MHz 4K@144Hz, USB4.0/USB3.2/DP/HDMI/ 2.5G LAN. Mac mini is really _not_ "incredible value" (as I am getting sick of hearing) unless you actually need a macOS device with insane CPU performance and also almost no storage. With 1TB onboard it's $1000. Bump it to 32GB RAM, it's now $1400. Over double the price, and the Beelink has 2.5GB ethernet and can be upgraded (RAM, storage, or Wifi 7) in the future. I still want one, but I know Apple are charging me way too much for what I'm getting.

[@prskyviews]

What really bugs me is.. they label the connection as having “limited compatibility” if you have different names for ssid’s for the different bands and they slash your bandwidth by half!!! I like using different ssid names to separate the bands devices are using in an easy way Now i have to use a single ssid and look for the band the device is using to ensure proper file transfer or download speeds… UGHHHHHH!

[@sarjannarwan6896]

WiFi 7 also helps because you can use all bands (2.4/5/6) ghz. Lower latency (with 6ghz having double the max channel width). Also apart from throughput there are other improvements like latency. I have a Unifi WiFi 7 AP and with my iPhone it’s great.

[@sarjannarwan6896]

Although apple’s WiFi 7 implementation actually apparently doesn’t support 320mhz channels only 160mhz

[@tonyburzio4107]

Broadcomm makes the Apple Wifi/Bluetooth module, and Apple complains at them all the time.

[@matthijszondervan7638]

I could also be a supply issue. That they can not get the amount of wifi 7 parts they need

[@3ventic]

Holy smokes the amount of dated wifi takes and otherwise narrow worldviews. Even as a dev I've so often been moving massive files in offices without wired networking and been actively forced to wait and take a break while it finishes.

[@daillengineer]

why are you choosing wireless over wired?

[@3ventic]

@@daillengineer I'm not making those choices? I've not been in a single company office where most of the desks even had ethernet set up in the past 7 years. People came in with their laptops and used the wifi.

[@daillengineer]

@ weird but I’m pretty sure even Wi-Fi 5 was more than what they needed

[@3ventic]

@@daillengineer need is a strong word, but there's a clear difference in spending minutes and spending seconds on frequent tasks that involve downloading or uploading large amounts.

[@daillengineer]

@ agreed but strange to be an office with WiFi only

[@jeffersonmp4]

Finally someone talks about it !!

[@unusedTV]

The "Pro" moniker has nothing to do with "professional" but with "progressively more expensive". Just look at how many run of the mill consumers still buy it.

[@sarjannarwan6896]

It’s hard to think why they’d do this. Before you mentioned the Russia thing I assumed they were trying to cut margins after increasing the base RAM (+ inflation price cut from keeping it the same)

[@tonyburzio4107]

Broadcomm makes the Apple Wifi/Bluetooth module, and Apple complains at them all the time. yuou got 16GB base because the M4 uses a different process that has higher yield.

[@maddada]

This is one of the biggest reasons I will never buy a Mac or iPhone. There's no competition inside the walled garden so I have to keep waiting for apple to give me a good foldable phone (love my Honor Magic V3), or a 2 in 1 laptop, Wifi 7, or so many other hardware advancement. While on the android/windows side the competition is fierce so there's so much more progress and everyone is trying to one up each other (benefiting the consumer in the end)

[@sukhwindersingh-nu6xq]

I agree with u, wifi 6e is a downside of MBP, imac and mac mini. But next year Apple is making its own wifi chip which will be based on wifi 7. So, by next year, you can expect wifi 7 with M5 processors.

[@daillengineer]

just gonna plug in my 10Gb SFP+ adapter anyway :)

[@skirwan78]

1) Wifi 7 isn't ratified yet 2) we're still deploying 5, let alone 6 or 6e 3) if you're a serious worker you're using ethernet these complains are just complains for click sake, get some perspective.

[@danvilela]

yo, im a serious worker and use wifi. dont give me that

[@tinusg]

4 facts in a row!

[@daillengineer]

plus he's not even getting the proper speed on 6E. sounds like user error.

[@edc1569]

@@danvilela Do you have to shift gigabytes of data around, why not plug in and get it done quicker.

[@RH-jj7ck]

lol , qualcomm had wifi7 in place already 1 year ago

[@MonigMedia]

8:50 now that is quite the bombshell

[@youcef_]

actually, the reason you don't get the max theoretical speed isn't really about how close to the router you are (that does effect it of course, but it's not the main reason). The main reason is actually interference. Those theoretical maximums are in perfect lab conditions in a room isolated from all external electromagnetic radiation. your neighbour's wifi, and all the electronic devices around you make a surprisingly large impact on the quality of your wifi

[@nym49]

Let's not forget that they boast to support USB4 with 40Gbps and Thunderbolt 5 with up to 120Gbps, but fail to implement full downwards compatibility to peripherals that actually are available and offer decent speed. I'm talking specifically about the Samsung T9 or Crucial X10 Pro SSDs which offer 20Gbps via USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 (~2000MB/s). They will only run with 10Gbps (~1000MB/s) since Apple does not implement full downward compatibility.

[@tonyburzio4107]

The protocols are set by Intel, call them and complain. Well, you should do that fast, Intel went into receivership yesterday.

[@nym49]

@@tonyburzio4107 Thunderbolt, yes. Not the USB specs I'm talking about.

[@drakata27]

Hey man sorry to hear it hope you can pull through we are with you🙏

[@sbstndltn]

Ok, I need to know that software you used for the quick graph 6:36

[@BenMargolius]

It's Excalidraw!

[@JohnMcclaned]

emf maxxing

[@brambasiel]

1:00 Theo complimenting me for being a normal person using a Macbook Air and then insulting me for not being a professional caught me off guard.

[@99999me1]

They know this day will some. That's why they solder wifi on the board.

[@tobyzieglerrr]

Use a cable.

[@RH-jj7ck]

buy laptop use it like desktop machine

[@tnypxl]

@@RH-jj7ck There are WAY MORE people who do exactly that than those who buy desktop-class PCs.

[@jeffersonmp4]

No.

[@daillengineer]

I get 2350Mbps on my M2 Max MacBook Pro over 6E

[@Oblivion_94]

I can get over 1400 mbps internet speed (download, as xfinity doesn't do symmetric upload/download) over wifi 6E on my samsung phone, and iphone needs wifi 7 for this type of speed? Someone explain what I am missing here, really curious.

[@daillengineer]

local network speeds not just internet, but still he should be getting 2300-2400Mbps on 6E

[@masterflitzer]

well this is a bummer, m4 not supporting wifi 7 now is just like m1 not supporting wifi 6e then

[@tomgidden]

2:38 Horse impressions… that was unexpected.

[@seanmartinflix]

I think the m4 was going to be the m3 but there was problems with chip manufacturing so they made the m3 and now we get the m4.

[@mrrolandlawrence]

dang it.. there goes my dreams of 100G SFP112 :( you are also wrong about phone vs Mac... for apple.. the phone makes sooo much more income. So it is the 100% priority. The good news is that we have peak smartphone - so the only way to increase income is to grow the desktop / laptop market which they only have a small share of. This is why the new mini m4 for $599 is a total game changer. Its actually attractive for business.

[@jaralara6429]

Low chance, but it will be extremely funny if they decide to put WiFi 7 on the coming MacBook Air

[@johnnymnemonic1369]

The read/write on your NAS is going to soak up all of that Wi-Fi 7 bandwidth?

[@RunForPeace-hk1cu]

It's clear Apple is waiting for M5 to upgrade to WIFI7 ... along with AVP2 ... why would anyone upgrade if all the features are the same? TB5 isn't enough? How many PC Laptops have TB5 ports?

[@HeyNiagraFalls]

So, why don't they put cellular in MacBooks ?

[@tonyburzio4107]

Because the cell phone providers aren't interested in subsidizing them.

[@bradledford]

This video has been brought to you by the new TP-Link BE6500 Wi-Fi 7 High Gain Wireless USB Adapter. Link in the description. ;)

[@tylermiller4466]

I don't know why they drag their feet so much on WiFi support. Even the iPhone was kind of behind the curve. Flagship android phones started to support WiFi 7 in 2023.

[@tonyburzio4107]

Broadcomm makes the Apple Wifi/Bluetooth module, and Apple complains at them all the time.

[@joesalyers]

Well save some money and grab the tplink Archer TBE400UH wifi7 to adapter when it comes out LOL

[@paulwoodward8265]

Good point, it's very odd to put 6E on MBP, and 7 on the iPhones. If you want to keep your MBP for 3-5 years, the lack of wifi 7 is going to become a real issue in time. I suspect that today, in the real world, 6E is going to be just fine for general use. If you are transferring loads of massive files in your house, you'd likely put the MBP in a dock and use 10Gb ethernet (or thunderbolt) anyway. So it's not the end of the world for a true Pro workflow. And to be fair, Wifi 7 is very new - it still isn't actually ratified yet. But I don't want to be an Apple apologist, it makes no sense that they can put better wifi on their phones. If you're going to spend several thousand dollars on a pimped up MBP, you want everything to be the best of the best, and once you've seen this is missing you can't unsee it. It'll always bug you.

[@AJ-wf1vh]

The answer is actually simple: the iphone has a state of the art 5G modem and such a modem has Wifi 7 The Macbook pro does not... instead it has a normal Wifi card. And 6E is all you get with those. Same goes with the selfie camera vs webcam. iPhone gets the goodies.

[@tonyburzio4107]

Broadcomm makes the Apple Wifi/Bluetooth module, and Apple complains at them all the time.

[@utubekullanicisi]

There are 3 other possible reasons, 1 is they don't have a lot of volume for the WiFi chip that they want to use so they're prioritizing the iPhone in the supply chain, 2 is they're in a transitionary period where in the next generation they will make their own WiFi + Cellular + Bluetooth modems and put it inside the MacBook so they're half-assing this generation's modem to make the next gen more impressive next to it or spend less engineering resources on it, and 3 is it would've been too big of an upgrade in a single generation if this gen of Macs also had WiFi 7 on top of everything else they've gained, so they didn't want to put all of their eggs in one basket. And no, believing in the 3rd option doesn't make me a conspiracy theorist, it makes perfect sense.

[@tonyburzio4107]

Broadcomm makes the Apple Wifi/Bluetooth module, and Apple complains at them all the time.

[@opensourcedev22]

Apple gods giveth with one hand and taketh away with another

[@mr.fearless7594]

Makes complete sense. Dont know why people have to shit on everything based on THEOretical numbers.😅

[@tonyburzio4107]

Call Broadcomm and complain, they make the Bluetooth/WiFi module.

[@yalahmedia]

maybe apple will offer wifi 7 upgrade (at time of purchase) down the road like how they offered 10G ethernet on the mac mini m1 several months after launch.

[@tonyburzio4107]

Broadcomm makes the Apple Wifi/Bluetooth module, and Apple complains at them all the time.

[@YonatanAvhar]

IMO, you don't get to order something before checking the specs and then ranting about the specs not being what you assumed. I'm not saying your need for high-speed networking isn't valid, I just think that complaining about having to cancel your order because it doesn't have a feature you assumed it would have without checking isn't there.

[@tobyzieglerrr]

Theo, dont cancel the order, send it to me 🙂

[@ktolis]

onnect using thunderbolt 5

[@gadgetboyplaysmc]

Why do you have two channels?

[@jakejoyride]

New Intel Ultra 2 laptops that draw 30 Watts have WiFi 7

[@tonyburzio4107]

Broadcomm makes the Apple Wifi/Bluetooth module, and Apple complains at them all the time.

[@angwk]

Macbook pro without wifi 7, deal breaker for me

[@siegblink182]

what’s the name of the status bar visible in your Terminal?

[@flynnfittz]

And worse than the iPad as well… I was expecting the tandem OLED screen to upgrade…

[@TomNook.]

That's what the Studio is for

[@R1L1.]

i bought gigabit router just for this reason, i can play games form one pc and just stream the files lol, and just general moving stuff is great, and i use wired cuz its my home bro i am not driving a car and moving.

[@the_BetaDev]

Didn't know you had a second channel.

[@theorants]

tbh I forget sometimes too

[@AnonymousOG]

You didn't show a speediest of using wifi 7 on your phone so I call bs.

[@sativagirl1885]

Whine not! You could develop your juggling and banjo playing skills, and maybe tell some jokes while waiting for wifi7 on macbook pros. Try some old Steve Martin material!

[@Mads_on_YT]

I'm much more interested in MacBook Pros supporting 5G, so I can use my data plan anywhere without draining my phone battery.

[@dominikfilkus]

What a luck that I am using Ethernet cable!

[@Nil-js4bf]

This is like me wondering why my brother's iPhone 16 Pro Max is incapable of playing flac files😆. To be fair, this is pretty typical of Apple. It took them ages to release high refresh rate screens while the rest of the industry adopted it years before. Apple will enforce their vision of what matters onto consumers and you better like it if you want to stay within their walled garden.

[@pycontiki]

Normally I avoid Theo because he’s a dork but he nails this point. Apple F’ed Up, just downright lazy Apple 🤮

[@serge9941]

wait... so the ONLY reason to upgrade / to spend nearly 5000 USD was WIFI7 and you didn't even bother to check that one feature? or was it... you were disappointed it didn't have WIFI7 and decided: lets create a click-bait video and let's order/cancel it to make it seem legit

[@imho4990]

What do you want to use this fast WIFI for? To do speed tests?

[@Ewoof]

Apple has the worst wifi I have ever had. Even my intel i3 Lenovo laptop had better reception than this. I'm not even joking I had a MacBook 64gb m1 max MacBook pro-16. I was shocked that I still had to use my Lenovo laptop if i wanted to get better reception.

[@tonyburzio4107]

Broadcomm makes the Apple Wifi/Bluetooth module, and Apple complains at them all the time.

[@reptilespantoso]

I like CAT-6. Fukc WiFi. It's for YT influencers. 😀

[@nathan43082]

As someone with a 400/50 connection to the internet, I cannot fathom ever needing more than one gigabit WiFi

[@daillengineer]

its not about internet speed. its about file transfer speed on the local network. computer to file server.

[@JosifovGjorgi]

Apple isn't cutting edge since Steve Jobs dead If Steve was alive today then Pro devices will start with 1TB SSD, 32GB RAM and Wifi 8 and Thunderbolt 7 But it is Tim the accountant Numbers don't start innovation, the numbers suppressed it

[@tonyburzio4107]

Broadcomm makes the Apple Wifi/Bluetooth module, and Apple complains at them all the time.

[@danvilela]

The worst part is selling 16gb macbooks with apple intelligence. That crap eats your RAM!! Using sequoia and 16gb of ram is actually having a 4gb of ram macbook. In 2024!! It's insane.

[@almir1147]

Come on, most people still use 802.11n and rarely 802.11ac/ax. For a NAS, it is implied that you will use a LAN if you need full speed. I will never work with something big over Wi-Fi anyway.

[@imho4990]

99,99999% people don't use WIFI 7.

[@pdyb]

Just Apple tings

[@ReddRubble]

Good, saves you from buying a new computer when you have an M2 pro. Use your computer and use it fully Jesus

[@ReddRubble]

I agree it's absurd they don't have wifi 7, I also believe it's absurd you where going to upgrade from an M2 pro to an m4

[@hubert3048]

Just use ethernet cable

[@null_spacex]

You still have those in your house?

[@zekicay]

@@null_spacex When I did last renovation of my house, I made sure to put 2 Cat6A sockets in every room, and one on the hallway ceiling on each level, back to the central location. All stationary devices (game consoles, TVs, cameras, desktop PCs) are wired, and also all WiFi APs are wired and powered via PoE (currently using 2.5GbE). WiFi is for phones, tablets, laptops. Smart switches and plugs are on their own zigbee network.

[@Burgerklauer]

oh no you will have to wait a few more minutes. thats really a tragedy.

[@nctay]

Not for 4.5 grand