The Wisdom of Tonisborg - Part I

[@danielboggs2013]

Hey thanks for digging in to our book guys. In terms of order, Greyhawk dungeon is a bit earlier, so Tonisborg is something like the third - fifth dungeon made. Arneson made two, (at least) and Gygax and Kuntz created one or two, then Svenson made Tonisborg in 1973.

[@theoldwarlock]

Hello Daniel! Glad to be taking a closer look at Tonisborg. It's a great publication and we figured a video about it would resonate with the audience of our little corner of KZbin. If you have any spare time, please e-mail us ([e-mail]). I'd love to be able to ask you a few questions about Tonisborg and what's in store for its future.

[@raff3486]

Tonisborg added to the list of to be bought later!

[@theoldwarlock]

We hear you! Our list grows each month.

[@Marcus-ki1en]

The Wisdom of the old ones. So good to see and hear. Thank you for sharing.

[@theoldwarlock]

Our pleasure, Marcus!

[@ken.droid-the-unique]

Do I want more? YES, please! Your videos are always excellent and very appreciated.

[@theoldwarlock]

Glad you enjoyed it Ken! Thank you for the compliment!

[@solomani-42]

20:00 dark souls taught me to always look up before entering a new area/room.

[@WayneBraack]

"You don't have to have a rule to mitigate every event that happens" ... Exactly!! It's literally the DM's [GM's] job to be creative on the fly. IMHO if you can't do that you're not a DM/GM. Anyone can do it. Takes practice but it's a highly attainable skill simply by doing. I really don't like when people HAVE to have a written rule or they feel they can't proceed. At my table I had a no books rule. Not entirely but mostly I insisted my players engage via imagination and not scouring through rules books, which takes too much time and breaks immersion. If you want to do something state what you're attempting and I along with you will quickly come up w a die roll and what to base it on. Simple, fast, keeps immersion going.

[@theoldwarlock]

Couldn't agree more. Rule diving always slows things and it usually happens at the most dramatic moments.

[@deadlyDM]

Crazy you're talking about this book. I just received the paperback version in the mail last week. Plan on starting it tomorrow!

[@theoldwarlock]

Let us know what you think! It's currently one of my favorite RPG books.

[@viciousrodent]

When the party finds a map from a group of former adventurers in my game, they find a map only of what the adventurers actually would have found before they ended up losing the map... Which means all the traps they didn't notice or set off are unmarked on the map, likely including the one that killed the poor thief who's body they got the map from. Some of the secret doors may be marked, but not all of them (if the party is really lucky, they found the map of a elf or dwarf, and a full third of the secrets will be shown, rather than a sixth.) It also usually only shows the parts of the dungeon that lead up to where the party found the map, or some other path to that location. If the map they found ha a story behind it, it will show what makes sense relative to that, with about a sixth (or a third for a darf/elf-heavy group) of the secrets and traps marked along the way. For maps on random loot tables, I'll usually do a random roll to see how much of the dungeon or area the map might show, usually maxing out at ~70% of any given floor and a minimum of ~20% or the minimum required to get to the location the map wwas found (whichever is higher), (a [1d6*10] plus 10% per floor shown) and only showing dungeon floors the party is on, or ones above, with a 1-in-10 chance to show some of the next floor down, and 1-in-20 for the floor after that [and no chance for any subsequent floors]. The limits being because... well, if the mapmaker had gotten further, the map itself would have probably gone with them, (and would thus be found later in the dungeon), and if they made it back alive, well, they probably wouldn't have left their map in the middle of the dungeon.

[@theoldwarlock]

Great post! Thanks for sharing VR!

[@Squirrel-Hermit]

Huzzah! Sally forth! Let us delve further into Tonisborg!

[@theoldwarlock]

Part 2 on Friday or Saturday SH! Thanks!

[@FinieousFingers1976]

Woo Hoo! McLaren is back baby. Piastri and his McLaren are making a very good showing against Mercedes and Ferrari so far this season. OK, now I can watch the rest of the video. Just had to get that out there. 😁

[@michaeldrinkard678]

As per usual, another quality, entertaining, and informative video! Great insight into how to run a campaign. Looking forward to the next installment. 🙂

[@theoldwarlock]

Thanks, Michael! Part 2 should be on Friday or Saturday.

[@brianevans9719]

I found this content highly interesting and just ordered myself a copy of the book. Thanks guys.

[@theoldwarlock]

You're welcome, Brian! I think you'll really like the book!

[@retrodmray]

Such great stuff again, guys! Yes, indeed, Tonisborg is truly awesome! More, please 🤓👊

[@theoldwarlock]

More on Friday or Saturday, Ray! Thanks!

[@BX_Disciple]

This book is a must for all DMs! Great video and also if you haven't yet watched secrets of Blackmoor its a great video to watch!

[@theoldwarlock]

Thanks, BX! We've seen Secrets - I wish there were more such things being produced.

[@markdickey739]

Yes, more Tonisborg please.

[@theoldwarlock]

The next video will be Friday or Saturday. Thanks!

[@raff3486]

I love this channel

[@theoldwarlock]

Thanks, Raff!

[@ElJaap]

Yes, more!

[@theoldwarlock]

Part 2 on Friday or Saturday!

[@DaveTheGM]

I need to reread the Tonisborg advice section, it's been a bit since I got my mass market copy (or my collector's copy for that matter) out to look through.

[@theoldwarlock]

Glad the video is leading you to a reread.

[@mightyeroc7284]

Great look at Tonisborg, looking forward to part 2.

[@theoldwarlock]

Hello Eroc! It's been awhile! Glad you liked the Tonisborg video. Part 2 this Friday or Saturday.

[@Robocopster]

Yes, more please.

[@theoldwarlock]

Part 2 on Friday or Saturday.

[@j.rinker4609]

Are you at all familiar with Wicked Clever (Robert Turk)? He's written some games for kids which don't generally involve player death. I think it's an interesting challenge to make the stakes high in other ways, similar to trying to write a mystery that's NOT a murder mystery.

[@theoldwarlock]

Have not heard of this but I'll have to take a look at it.

[@jarrodjanuary5486]

I like how this channel is so down-to -earth!

[@theoldwarlock]

Thanks, Jarrod!

[@solomani-42]

I own this but have not read it yet. I need to take a sabbatical just to catch-up.

[@theoldwarlock]

I'm with you on that. I buy more things than I read at the moment.

[@jestrogames5507]

Great insight! I agree that "Collaborative Fiction" is a better term for these types of games. That's how I've always perceived them anyhow.

[@TheRealTailGateTech]

Order copy of the book today. The book’s TOC list “the fake dice roll” , classic….

[@theoldwarlock]

Ahh, yes. The fake die roll. We'll be discussing that. I think you're going to enjoy the book!

[@russellparker5043]

Pieces of history from back in the early days are always fun to listen to… I’ve been playing for about 40 years and I’ve never heard of this particular dungeon, so I’m looking forward to the next installments

[@theoldwarlock]

Glad you liked it. It's a great piece of the RPG story.

[@Tysto]

Content begins at 7:20

[@TheNerdySimulation]

Appreciate the at least brief mention of Braunstein and collaborative fiction because it quite often gets missed in these talks. I play a large variety of games with interesting design, some which do a great job emphasizing the latter aspect. It also fascinates me how much Braunstein lives on (by intention or happy accident) through what is now called "Megagames," as well as how much overlap LARP actually has with TTRPG's historical origins even if some fellow geeks/nerds turn their nose up at it. This book is quite interesting as my exposure to Blackmoor is far from in-depth and it is nice to see historical preservation in any form. I'm curious also if the book has any coverage of Brownstone, the western game which Arneson played in before Blackmoor, but happy to catch more of this series regardless.

[@mikemartin8605]

Looking forward to the next installment. I also backed the Tonisborg kick starter but have not yet run it. I love the book and am interested to hear your thoughts and insights.

[@theoldwarlock]

Thanks Mike! Next installment on Friday.

[@paavohirn3728]

This is great! A question if you may (and anyone seeing this). I've been running old school D&D for a few years now but not for my main group. My wife's the only one I ran AD&D before this whole group went through 3rd to 5th edition. The others have a background in RoleMaster before 3e. I really want to get them into enjoying old school sandbox and dungeon crawling so I don't want to teach them by gotcha. The question came to me when you talked about checking above you. Do you use a standard operating procedure as a basis, like one character is always checking the ceiling and how the PC enter a room, what they do in hallways etc? Then if there's something special in the environment (that they might have noticed due to a smart SOP) they give the GM added details about how they're further interacting with the environment, eg. raising torches high to see better into those shadowy contours of a higher ceiling or poking a statue with a 10' pole. Basically, how do you play so it doesn't get too bogged down, not too gotcha (with no real chance of avoiding nasty stuff) etc? If you use SOP, how detailed? Also I'm running pre-made adventures mainly, so they really vary in how they present traps, ambushes etc.

[@theoldwarlock]

I wish I had an easy answer to the question (which is great by the way). First, the person running the game shouldn't have trap after trap after trap (unless it's called for for some reason). That can get tedious and boring. Second, as the players make their way through the dungeon or temple or whatever, I just expect them to act as they normally would in a tense dangerous situation - with them knowing that they need to achieve a balance between caution and spending too much time making their way through the potential dangers. Resources are continuously being used up by PCs and that constant drain often sets the pace of any exploration. I also try to give each ruin or dungeon a personality of its own since I believe each was most likely designed by a different NPC. Having variability to dangers can make them more fun and interesting when they might bog things down a bit if they were all created in the same way. And if something has to be approached in a new way by the PCs, being ultra cautious can be enjoyable as they try to overcome never before seen obstacles.

[@paavohirn3728]

@@theoldwarlock Thanks! Great points! I've been a quite averse to using traps in general but they have a place in old school style play and I want to incorporate them. I guess the personality of each dungeon is also a way of communicating the degree and possible types of dangers lurking therein. We finally got the game started last week. Mostly just rolling characters and session 0 stuff so no dungeons yet. It will definitely be a learning process for all of us. I just hope all the players are willing to adjust their playing styles to this type of game and that some of them loosen up a little bit of their cautiousness (and that I can run the game in such a way as to encourage that).

[@worldbigfootcentral3933]

Professor M.A.R. Barker had a fantasy world fully designed a couple decades before any of those guys made a campaign setting. What they did first, was that they created the workable game mechanics for using a fantasy world in a game, and as soon as Barker found out about that, the Empire of the Petal Throne RPG was released. Which was also a TSR release. Prof Barker was also an old time Wargamer, who did ancients miniatures, which is how he had heard about their new system. Chainmail.