The WORST examples of bad map RNG in DBD

[@notOtzdarva]

Update: As of some time ago, the devs implemented a new rule for most maps that prevent multiple structures of the same from spawning. This has had a MASSIVELY positive impact on the RNG of most maps, so good job listening and implementing this idea BHVR!

[@icecoldos]

I still hate backwater tbh 😂

[@Avery_Da_Man]

ok

[@Saikopasu-Shogo]

I'm happy with this "new rule", but what about maps that are so small that you can basically hear at all time Wesker terror radius? I'm refering to 2 map variants, one is the Yamaoka with the middle temple that lets you see the whole map, and the other one is the Dump, where you can LITTERALLY see all map corners standing in one of them.. I actually love DBD, but all of that RNG makes it kind of unfun..

[@djeasterling8308]

Honestly I think that map rng is the most unbalanced thing in dbd. I’m a killer main and sometimes I’ll get maps with massive dead zones or enough pallets to make Home Depot blush. Glad to see a big creator addressing this.

[@Overzeal_]

@RedDot bot

[@Pumpkin102-]

Get better stop complaining

[@rushe6344]

@@Pumpkin102- he isn't complaining tho

[@tooth1539]

@@Pumpkin102- "get better" at something you literally cant control, good advice.

[@b2superbattledroid977]

@@Pumpkin102- Mr moron

[@daskanguru3515]

The last time I saw a map this bad, 13 dwarves were trying to figure out a way into the lonely mountain.

[@EnclaveChad]

Okay, this caught me off guard, i was *just* listening misty mountains cold.

[@daskanguru3515]

@@EnclaveChad I see you have a formidable taste in music

[@EnclaveChad]

@@daskanguru3515 thanks 😉, oh and don't forget the halfling.

[@RenuzakiTV]

Literally watched the hobbit a few hours ago 💀

[@alexrogers7217]

@RedDot true red

[@ascendagen]

I would get that suffocation pit luck but then immediately hear nurse

[@bedopskepop7936]

I propose a solution to this, I think if we tweak the pigs kit(it’s a little strong) we can easily solve the bad rng map problem

[@thewrongremedy771]

Your looking at the problem wrong, if we increase Hillbilly's heat build up everything will be fine

[@canadalynx]

You guys are all idiots. The problem is clearly Twins’ addons

[@gorkemaykut5230]

@@thewrongremedy771 both of you are thinking backwards, we should nerf twin

[@Chaos-bq6mc]

@@gorkemaykut5230 You serious? Spirit is in dire need of a buff! Don't ask me how this will solve the RNG problem, my dad works at BHVR.

[@lynxboi6157]

@@Chaos-bq6mc That’s just wrong! We need to push out another chapter ASAP! Maybe even a nurse buff and a overpowered survivor perk with a boring killer!

[@Xenion02]

The worst one I've had was playing blight on the game, the survivors had six out of seven gens spawn bottom floor, didn't even know that was possible! I could basically just go back and forth on the bottom and I automatically won

[@AmericanGadfly]

This is why the game isnt as strong for survivors as a lot of people think. Most generator configurations strongly favor the killer, theres 1 or 2 that screw you but most of the time the gens are really easy to defend while you slowly get rid of pallets. Boons of course throw that out the window

[@butecodesentina1766]

@@AmericanGadfly i believe most players think that the game is survivor sided because it's very frustrating to play as killer in it, but it's very easy to win there, it's ridiculous how easy it is to force a 3 gen

[@Xenion02]

@@butecodesentina1766 not to mention endgame, if you down survivors and take them downstairs youve pretty much guaranteed one kill minimum

[@twinzzlers]

​@@Xenion02 One kill is a survivor win and depending on the basement, the survivor can still escape

[@kushpakk2210]

@@butecodesentina1766 clearly you don’t play at high level if it’s “easy” to force a 3 gen😂 it’s possible but even then with 4 survivors alive they can finish a gen in 30 seconds. Stop acting like survivors have it tough

[@CoolGuy-mf4ce]

Actually the map RNG is designed to be completely predictable; when I'm playing killer there's tons of connected loops and pallets but when I'm playing survivor there's 3 total loops on the map.

[@spinnyboi9951]

ah you mean like how ive yet to have an open house of pain on new haddonfield as survivor yet its open every time when im killer :)

[@bye1551]

I once had a shack connect to a jungle gym connect to a straight tile connect to anothe jungle gym connect to a hill connect to a T+L wall as killer My next game as survivor, the shack was in a complete deadzone and the jungle gym (singular) was isolated, only connecting to the main building if you had sprintburst or got hit

[@lazygravy_brook]

@@spinnyboi9951 same

[@diavolosteddy7594]

@@spinnyboi9951 SAME OMFG

[@xCriticalz]

FR lmaoo. And strong map offerings are only used when I play killer.

[@UrLocalZaddy]

The worst (or ig best for me) map generation I've seen was on old grim pantry. I could stand next to the gen on top of the pantry and had a clear view of every other gen in the game. I was Wraith so none of them were more than a couple seconds away, literally had a 7 gen

[@DaTanMan01]

You just dredged up a very traumatic memory of that happening to me as survivor.

[@Solonggulle]

The Grim Pantry... JRM would be proud

[@joyfulleader5075]

@@DaTanMan01 What was it?

[@thedoomslayer5863]

@@joyfulleader5075 he got hit by blood warden and no way out max stacks on a infinite Mori Myers

[@colleenbean030]

*Due to recent talk on map rng, we've decided to increase every maps size by 20 meters and increase the number of gens by 3*

[@toddynfake6769]

Rng*

[@recruit7416]

Also removed pig from the game

[@RealNefastus]

@@recruit7416 And make Hillbilly trip up and break his legs whenever He's even a centimeter above the ground during chainsaw sprint. Those damn Space Billy players need to learn their place.

[@PS5BlightWarlord]

Spacebilly/Skybilly 🤡🤡🤡

[@akalixevelynn2932]

*Killer time in que: 1hr 12 min 36 seconds*

[@lazygravy_brook]

0:57 I feel like Midwich is an exclusively hookless map. So many times that I can't make it to a hook because there are absolutely non nearby and the survivor gets out for free, wasting the last minute or so of my time just so I have to chase them pre-dropping everything all over again.

[@LordOfLemon]

I full-heartedly agree, it feels like the most problematic map in the game. Every other map I've found some way to play around, but Midwich can just be absolutely horrible sometimes, for both killer and survivor. As a (new) survivor, it is absurdly difficult to even find the generators due to the indoors structure of the map with gens hidden away in back corners of distant rooms. Also, since most of the map is just straight corridors, the map offers very little counterplay to survivors being chased. As a killer, the gens are often too far from each-other to patrol and the hook spawns can be awful, especially when survivors use map offerings. It just feels like the map needs more access points, the current layout is way too segmented. Also, the map is just a nightmare for new players to navigate. You can complain about RCPD as much as you like, but at least when you move towards your destination you can usually intuitively figure out a way to get there, regarless of how much you know about the access points between the three floors. In Midwich, you are forced to always memorize each staircase's position in relation to yourself in order to reach any gens/hooks in the top floor, which can be extremely difficult for someone who has terrible spatial awareness (me). On any Midwich game, I regularly find myself spending upwards of 20 seconds trying to locate the closest entry point to the top floor. And that's just locating it, not actually walking the whole distance up the staircase and across the hallways. Maybe I just need to git gud, but idk. To me, the whole map feels sort-of haphazard and out-of-place in DbD.

[@lazygravy_brook]

@@LordOfLemon I 100% agree

[@Hyrule409]

I've played against hook hackers on Midwich and when I picked someone up off the ground, who DIDN'T have Boil Over, I only saw Basement hooks and like 2 hooks on the top floor on the opposite side of the map.

[@bonthebunnycat667]

​@@LordOfLemonThats cause it uses the actual SH layout I think 💀

[@alexm4610]

This makes me think they should add some type of min and max pallet/ structure system wherein the tile spawns are still rng but you won’t be getting nearly as many insane tiles or excess/ shortage of pallets.

[@2bstiff584]

I always get a insane amount of pallets 20-40 pallets

[@AMGC7]

Funnily enough there is already a minimum of pallets per map, 8, but as you can notice, there were 2 maps (several entries on both) reaching below 8. The case of Wretched Shop with 6 pallets was simple to understand, since its main building is currently bugged and missing 2 guaranteed pallets (aka the 2 missing to reach the expected minimum), I had reported that issue prior to the contest. As for Storehouse getting 5 and 6 (on a different clip), it is only a hypothesis but the new maze tile and the trashpile gym both are badly coded and they are counting with different resources.

[@Weskin_Time775]

@@2bstiff584 The Game can have a max of around 30, maybe a little bit less. It does feel like you have to chew through 40 pallets every match though, especially as an M1 killer.

[@RealNefastus]

@@Weskin_Time775 Even with my pallet breaker build, Game can be so fucking disgusting on killers like Wraith.

[@Magic0neGaming]

@@Weskin_Time775 I feel like most maps should have a max of 15 tbh. Anything getting close to 20+ is just pre drop to win simulator. Takes no skill and completely denies any killer skill with no effort on the survivors part assuming the pallet is a safe pallet.

[@Iamyoursmallestfan]

The map RNG is both the best & the worst part about DBD. Just the other day, I posted about it, I got a gen that spawned inside the mannequin room above the bathroom in The Game. And was so shocked about it. I have nearly 3k hrs in this game and I've never seen that before.

[@noahlifson4189]

Oh yes that gen spawn is incredibly rare. I've only had it happen in a match one time. It's also a very scary gen to have because it's so close to another one

[@Chloe-rs8nv]

yeah it's weir, sometimes dead dawg doesn't have a generator at gallows either

[@SakuyalzayoiTheMaid]

@@Chloe-rs8nv that one is a different kind of busted, that allows the hidden map corner gen to spawn

[@irregularassassin6380]

@@SakuyalzayoiTheMaid The hidden map corner? I haven't heard of that. What is it, exactly?

[@PacoReer]

I had an RPD where you could see 4 gens from upstairs of main

[@pepethefrog6809]

Regular Killer mains: "Pallets after pallets after pallets! They never end! What a shitty RNG!". Nurse mains: "What pallets?"

[@thedoomslayer5863]

The key to be happy as killer is main nurse

[@aordinaryperson8098]

Huntress : Yeetus Maximus

[@HideSpikes]

Yesterday I played on Eyrie and had 6 hooks total on it. One corner simply did not have hooks or generators in the 30m radius. This game suprizes me sometimes :D

[@kaczynskifan78]

crazy to think that someone running breakdown with those hook spawns could’ve singlehandedly lost you the game

[@Crime_Mime]

I had a garden of joy map yesterday with only 7-8 hooks around the edge of the map, nothing in the middle, and no hooks around the main house. It was almost impossible to hook someone who went down there.

[@malfunction_lol]

I absolutely love this type of video, dbd map generation has been a Grey zone in my game knowledge for ages and I'd love to learn more about it. If you could make a video in the future about it that would be amazing!

[@AMGC7]

No promises since it is his decision but he said he would make a video about it once I finished analyzing all the maps, I m about 32/38 maps done so far.

[@malfunction_lol]

@@AMGC7 oh shit great thanks for the info man

[@roarkviolet1912]

Having map RNG in my eyes is a good thing as it helps to eliminate the majority of predetermined map based strategies where one side has almost no chances of dealing with the strategy, as a result this puts an emphasis on the individuals ability to improvise and adapt which is great at raising the skill level of the game rather than the opposite which would reduce chases to doing the same safe and optimised series of loops again and again (also not saying this stuff doesn't still happen)... But only when it's finely tuned to prevent the situations shown from occurring.

[@ruot]

i agree entirely! ithink fixed set loops would be much more painful and bad for the game because of what you said.

[@Boby9333]

What kind of strategy are impossible to deal with? Like some shitty ass trapper basement set up? Reducing the RNG might expose some strategy even more but that mean it's also easier to fix them.

[@siriusa4905]

When people say coal tower is balanced I just can't agree, it almost ALWAYS spawn with multiple intertwining loops especially with the main building window, and rarely can you generate any kind of dead zones due to their always a safe structure being available against m1 Killers.

[@Ritsu362]

People say it’s balanced because it takes one dumbass to waste the pallets or run to the middle like a dum dum. Which is A stupid reason. Any decent survivor can be extremely hard to catch in that map

[@Iilah-ah]

Yeah, at least the main building doesn't have windows on the second floor anymore 😂

[@Predated2]

Intertwining loops isnt necessarily an issue. In fact, intertwining loops is what you want to create deadzones. The problem with intertwining loops doesnt really come unless its oriented towards another intertwining loop, then you have a problem. on Coal Tower, you have 2 loops, intertwining with a middle section(a hill with a gen, a weak pallet with no gen, or a deadzone with a gen and some clutter) and then another structure that can connect with killershack. So yeah, you will always spawn with multiple intertwining loops, thats what makes it the most balanced map overall. Have only 1 or 2 intertwining loops, and its a killersided map, having a quarter of the map be 1 single loop and its a survivor sided map.

[@TheKing-wf9es]

@@Iilah-ah I don't remember,that the Second Floor of Coal Tower used to have Windows at any time in the game

[@fourfifty-eight5683]

The main thing that makes Coal Tower good is that it's pretty small, meaning it's easier to patrol.

[@XiliGaming101]

Not surprised about the first map. Suffocation pit always has a ridiculously impossible middle for the majority of matches. It is literally physically impossible for M1 killers to deal with it and good survivors know this and exploit this fact.

[@AMGC7]

And it is even stronger now with the new tiles in MacMillan, before you could get a max of 2 jungle gyms, now you can add other strong maze tiles to that middle while still having those 2 devils.

[@2bakedcookies]

for real i hate that damn map when playing killer. it can be easy to 3 gen but you have to deal with the fuckin middle section so whats the point

[@trixdotnet]

hey that's me in one of the honorable mentions!!! it was super fun to participate and look through maps :)

[@lordrwbyandnepwatcher1387]

The second one is literally unfair for any survivor team, good or not

[@fairnut6418]

>for any survivor team shittiest assumption I've ever heard

[@lordrwbyandnepwatcher1387]

@@fairnut6418 ok buddy

[@AMGC7]

It is clearly bugged, 5 pallets is below the established minimum of 8. The hypothesis is that both the new tile and the trashpile gym are badly coded and counting as the wrong amount of resources, which can be noticed on their code names in the esc screen.

[@ThyBigCheddar]

TnLs don't have a pallet and a survivor can make do with that

[@AMGC7]

@@ThyBigCheddar there weren't any, it was flooded with the new, weaker double vault maze tile

[@squibbles_]

"We've received a few complaints about rng being too much of a deciding factor in matches. We hear you, and have decided to nerf pig. Her traps now have a 100% chance to be removed at the first box, removing all random chance from the equation" -Bhvr, probably

[@jeang6588]

Honestly 70% of this game's issues would be solved with better map generation. I will sometimes get fun maps where catching a surivor of guard will net me a free hit, but after that chasing is still a possibility. Other times, no matter what the survivors do, they will always die because they had to use the one pallet available. Then the next game I DC because I feel like I've broken 10 pallets, and they still get chasing value because of ridiculous window spawns, and when they finally get blocked, there are 5 other pallets waiting to be used.

[@Token__Gaming]

I have no proof, but one time I got Suffocation Pit /w all L + T's. Literally, every random structure was an L + T. It was in a custom match 1 v 1 /w a friend, the shock in their voice as I loop them through like 5 L + T's was absolutely priceless.

[@GenericUserName443]

The biggest issues with DbD: The maps, lack of killer balance (especially for Nurse) and soloQ vs SWF lack of balance. The maps is something i have been especially "vocal" about the last few days when running across half the map (or the entire side of one in some cases..) without seeing a single pallet or loop to use.

[@thedoomslayer5863]

With maps as bad as 1 and 3 we need nurse just as she is

[@MrJinglejanglejingle]

Otz out here finding the maps that every Killer Main that spams "Genrushers" and "Survivor-sided Game", and Survivor Main that spams "Carried Killer" or "Killer-Sided Game" plays on.

[@Bawkbasoup]

Thank you for doing these videos. I struggle at keeping up insane knowledge required to stay good at this game, these help so much :)

[@jared20089]

All of the winning entries being MacMillan maps says a lot about the RNG of them as a whole. No doubt that map RNG applies across the board, but god damn, they need to fix map RNG.

[@spinnyboi9951]

probably because atm its got the biggest amount of different jungle gyms+the apparently bugged one that eats a pallet lmao

[@GenericUserName443]

To be fair, they seem to be looking at maps being unbalanced in regards to RNG first and foremost, and down prioritizing maps that are busted on default like Garden of "joy"´s main building.

[@AMGC7]

Mac Millan had the wildest rng before its new tiles but it got even wilder now. Not only u have the coding errors allowing below 8 pallets iterations but the ruleset of the realm didnt get any changes, despite adding new maze tiles into its kit. Right now MacMillan has obsolete rules and you can easily perceive it with the funny window into funny window cases.

[@kilbymorgan8626]

Yesterday I had a match where Plague practically spawned in the same room as me and another survivor on RPD. The match was lost before it started.

[@UtsuhoOfHell]

I was playing Wesker and I used the Silent Hill offering, and I was shocked because I found two survivors spawn at the end of the same hallway I spawned. Shit is really fucked up, they woke up with my TR on their head

[@qewz_____]

let me guess, main hall?

[@kilbymorgan8626]

No, by the rear exit and plague spawned in a hallway pointing to the rear exit.

[@ecclesiaandune687]

I had a coal tower the other day that didn't seem too crazy in terms of tiles, but there were like 4 gens all around the middle of the map, two scourge hooks placed perfectly between them - and the killer was a legion with surge and pain res. It was basically impossible for him to lose that game

[@Reis_Room]

I've been to "80% of map is deadzone" so many times and raged about it... I never thought that maps are generated.. I thought that there were # of map layouts and we just get one of those randomly.. but it's actually RNGing all pallets and stuff :/ I'm even more disappointed in Bhvr now

[@sickandafraid]

so did i. i cant believe we have to hope to get good rng in hopes of at least standing a chance against a killer/survivors

[@kidd4551]

I assumed that it was rng based.I highly doubted the pre layout after getting a map where there were 4 T and L tiles.No way they would preemptively make a map where survivors have no loops

[@silentheaven_valtiel]

babe wake up otz posted

[@peterparker0999]

Im awake no worries

[@laugne70]

I agree that some tile distributions were insane, but this study completely neglected the generator RNG. And tbh, generator RNG can be as bad as tile RNG. If the suffocation map had 5 generators on the main building side (it does exist on I-shape maps like suffocation pit or azarov, faced one recently btw), it would not have been on the worst RNG ever for killers, especially for territorial killers such as hag/trapper (or any killer with kick-gen build). I would have only considered 4-survivors KyF lobbies and real public games for this contest: bad or god-like RNGs should consider both tile/gate and generator RNG, imo. Despite these criticisms, a very interesting YT movie, and thank you to point out these extreme RNG issues.

[@LynxiDBD]

Fantastic video as always Otz, never knew Map RNG could be this impactful!

[@Charlie-vp5tn]

Hello there, third Twins main

[@colin8923]

I was on Lery's as killer and I downed three survivors at the exit, but literally couldn't hook any of them. There were no hooks, so they all escaped.

[@Pumpkin102-]

Cause u got no skill

[@jackmatutum7747]

Dont worry they made sure that that situation will be common in RPD

[@kolbayada4938]

@@jackmatutum7747 RPD is the best exmaple of a terrible map design both before and after update. You either have a room that no survivor can go in if thew killer is blocking entrance, easiest locaions to camp a survivor with shit ton of strong pallets and to top it all off map is one of (if not the) biggest maps in the game.

[@Mr_Boss_Smile]

it gets worse when survivors with boil over and flip flop and unbreakable run to corners of the map with zero hooks. I literally cannot do anything they know they can't be hooked they'll just go to the fucking corner instead

[@palugaming9866]

Well to be fair there's always 1 hook near exit gate, sometimes 2 and you downed 3 survivor at the exit which you can only hook 1 survivor since the other 2 can leave, you already lose anyway. Or did you already use the hook near exit?? I never experienced no hooks near exit, there's always 1-2 hooks.

[@mr.weinert]

Thank you for always be so informative. This really shows that sometimes loosing as a good killer isn't always survivor sided, it's sometimes more map sided ...

[@Oh_Ehm_Gee]

I don't wanna be that guy but wouldn't if the examples are showing really bad RNG then it would be the BEST *examples.* I think what you mean is the worst *cases* of RNG.

[@notOtzdarva]

Oh that's a good point actually 😂

[@cptsalty2262]

That Coaltower looks like most of my coaltowers, I stopped believing its the pertect map years ago, its not the chainability of that map is so disgusting that most killers can´t do shit on it, when the tiles spawn like that.

[@antoniosamaelspeziaanaya2500]

Coal tower it's balance when you verse average (Even average good) survivors with a decent Killer and perks that built around it's power. But against good survivors on swf can be pretty difficult for some killers.

[@charlie2006]

I think there should be a guaranteed amount of pallets and windows

[@rakkieh404]

Pallet numbers are garanteed. ... that one map was a bug. Every map has up to 16-18 pallets. The game 22-24. (last time i checked the numbers ..sometime they shadowpatch something)

[@charlie2006]

@@rakkieh404thank you. I never knew that.👍

[@oldpernilong0]

once I saw a shack with its god window connected directed to a god window of jungle gym (Father Cambell chapel). That was so nasty I actually never came back to that location during the match.

[@Kayden2304]

Have to say this is teaching more about how i want to make my own map titles for my Asymmetrical game always a pleasure Otz.

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[@kunalhitman]

i love how otz makes these type of videos it feels very professional to play...❤️ love u man, keep up

[@jeezers]

@Telegram me 👉notOtzdarva1 fake

[@RyanAlucardx]

I had a map on Gideon meat plant yesterday and there literally wasn’t a single hook on one of the entire sides of the map it was so ridiculous

[@guilhermezandotudo2749]

Gideon meat plant sucks overall, too many god pallets, literally a nightmare for m1 killlers.

[@alpitu21]

My worst map rng i think was on Ormond, having the shack perfectly placed in a corner of the map, away from both of the exit gates, and there was a jungle gym window right at the outside of the shack window. In the exit that didn't lead to the corner of the map, there was an unsafe pallet, another safezone. And just to top it all up, the survivor i was facing had resillience, spine chill, adrenaline and dead hard. This was before the perk remaster btw. Such an amazing match i had. And even with that, i still got a 3k, mostly focusing to kill her, but she was the only one that got out through the gate.

[@dutchplanderlinde5905]

I believe I've never got Eyrie of Crows or Garden of Joy with balanced setup. Every game on these maps as basic-attack killers was absolute nightmare for me (also, just one word - collisions). I like their's stile and colors, but holy those setups were disgusting.

[@HoneyDog]

I think Scott Junds suggestions towards tiles being rated by strength and lowering the chance of strong tiles spawning next each other would be the best solution

[@PacoReer]

The thing is, it's very complex to rate a tile, because even a Z wal can be a pain if it's between 2 good loops, and many other factors like orientation (windows facing the edge of the map, proximity to other gens... The things they DO have to look at are not the "strong" or "weak" tiles, but the bugs/extremes inside their rng system (counting paletless loops as having a pallet, the chance of only 3 hooks spawning...)

[@UltimateBatator]

I think they should shutdown map RNG. When Dbd was released it was necessary to make the game feels fresh because we didnt have a lot of maps or killers back then. But now we have a lot of variety and we dont need the map RNG anymore. Or at least make 3 map variations which need to be approved by the devs

[@Kazzzack]

But then they'd need to have employees who are decent at map design

[@mouthwide0pen]

Hard disagree. I think making maps predictable would make matches far less interesting and would make survivor WAY more powerful since they'd be able to create an optimized and consistent way to connect many tiles together, since they know how the map is laid out. Even if its like, 3 layout variations per map, that's still predictable.

[@UltimateBatator]

@@mouthwide0pen survivors would loop better but at least the devs will be able to balance the maps. At the current state maps are a gamble, you have chance to have fun or you are fucked (it goes for killers and survivors). And also Killers would learn the maps and know when drop chase if the survivor is heading to a strong loop. I think this change would be good for both sides

[@arktiny9667]

Na I think unless they add comp then map RNG should stay.

[@mouthwide0pen]

@@UltimateBatator But everywhere would be a strong loop because everyone would know how to run everything effectively. Killers would have to either play killers who ignore the regular game rules (ie: a certain medical professional) or drop EVERY chase.

[@Weehawk187]

I had a Game map once that had one hook on the entire bottom floor and it was tucked away in one of the corners where there was no generators or resources, so the survivor literally had no reason to ever be near that area. It was a terrible experience

[@urbanfrog]

"there is no bad map, only skill issues" oogway

[@JustSomeDinosaurPerson]

Worst map generation for me was a while ago, but it was a bugged Sheltered Woods that didn't spawn with any pallets except for the shack. So you essentially had to play one massive deadzone with 2 T L walls, 2 jungle gyms, 1 shack and its 1 pallet, and the rocks. We didn't escape.

[@huntergville7040]

I find it really interesting that all of these were on Macmillan maps which are generally considered the most balanced of the bunch

[@AveryHyena]

Either they need to remove rng like this, or admit that dbd is a casual party game and not an esport, no matter how much they want it to be one.

[@ХристоСмоленов-ж3щ]

Good video. As a survivor main, one of my most hated RNG configurations has to be Mother's dwelling. This map can be insanely killer-sided to the point where the middle of the map can be an entire deadzone with the only safe heaven being the main building and shack. I've had games where there are 0 pallets in the middle of the map, so seeing people say this is one of the most survivor-sided maps kinda makes me cringe.

[@michaelcampopiano4466]

I pray to rngsus himself to not get into a match with a bully swf

[@KingsNerdCave]

I may be alone in this, but I honestly believe the loop generation system is the BIGGEST problem with DBD. I understand making maps not predictable, but it's so random you get matches where one side or the other is completely destroyed simply because the survivors are near invincible for have nothing to work with. There NEEDS to be a percentage system that creates a set number of weaker and stronger loops so survivors have enough of a limited resource to stay alive, but if the killer plays well and works through it can continuously win chases and get hooks as well. Cowshed with Shack + 5 of those long loops + the main building means 7 nearly completely safe loops. And the bug causing only 5 pallets to spawn means bloodlust central. Absolutely disgusting.

[@exiaruinblitz]

i remember one cold wind... that i felt bad for the survivors. most of the tiles were those weird hay bail ones with no pallets. the pallets they did have were on quad lanes but the weak set up, with nothing interconnected. and one combine. no hills.

[@Geralt998]

I'll never forget my Myers game in Gideon Meat Plant. The survivor I was following was dropping one pallet after another through those straight corridors where I had absolutely no counterplay to make. Needless to say, they all got out.

[@ChaosTheStrange]

I had a match with Spirit awhile back on Suffo pit. I didn't know there was any challenge, but there were I think 3 Jungle Gyms all centralized in the middle accompanied by 2 4 walls that lead directly the the mines, which also had the filler loops around it and the stronger window spawning. I only managed to get a 1k after an Ace made the most questionable (staying by the hook during endgame across the map from the gate and also not unlocking the gate he was next to) play, which just goes to show that even stupid survivors can loop the Killer forever if they get a strong setup.

[@philip_bray]

Extremely surprised shelter Woods wasn't on here. Sometimes pallets just don't spawn anywhere near the middle so survivors can't ever go there.

[@kylerowe4643]

Best I can do is a big dead tree and some roots you can bump on Also it's a blight with blighted crow and alchemist's ring

[@annareifer2249]

The heaviest spawn I ever had was on Badham Preschool, there was a spot where 4 filler pallets spawned between Main and the building with two floors in a straight line, before that was the Killer Shack, two pallets on the street and behind the two buildings were also pallets.

[@jbizzle6929]

I found this video really interesting! Otz should make another one like this but RNG specifically in the Killer’s favor. And another with RNG specifically in the Survivors favor. I’m sure the wonderful community would even it for free 😄

[@darkherokendaro5835]

You know what would be so cool and kinda fun to mess with. A map editor feature in dbd so you could recreate these maps and try to win on them or just see if you could make the worst possible map that the game could in theory make.

[@daddysempaichan]

As a casual viewer of DbD I didn't even notice there was this kind of Map RNG. I just thought every map was the same except for where the Pallets spawn. You learn something everyday.

[@adrevenue1496]

I remember a match i had as Leather Face in Hawkins, where i spent the entire game just breaking pallets. I maybe went through 7 pallets on side with the basement in the lab, and about 5 or 6 more on the other side. And of course it was on a map known for the lack of good pallet spawns

[@rileysullivan4123]

I've had some insane rng examples that the 2nd place result reminded me of: Once I had an ARP that mostly wasn't so bad, however the main building side literally had 0 pallets, or anything that could break LOS. All it had was main building, a T&L, a tire pile, and that was it. There was also an insanely strong 4 Gen, on top of mid Gen. This was also against a Nurse who knew what they were doing, so just an impossible game to win, when there's literally no way we can do the last 2 Gens. Another variation I had of ARP was actually in a comp match against a Huntress with a similar situation where shack side was almost completely empty. I got hit once, and I was forced to just run towards a rock and go edge map, because there was literally nothing there to loop. I didn't get to see all of main building side, but there was also a massive deadzone between the choke point and main, with only a T&L which is just death against Huntress, and the bus had the worst rng. There was possibly 1 filler pallet on that side, but it was also mostly empty. Shack side had Shack, a filler next to it, the old garbage truck loop, and the only jungle gym on the map all by itself. Honestly survivable RNG, but impossible to do anything against a Huntress. A final example I had, also came during an MMR test which just exacerbated the lack of resources. I got a Shelter Woods with 1 window on the map. There were 5 Pallet Gyms, 5 filler rock pallets (most of which were super isolated away from Gens), and Shack. Everyone was super new, so within 5 minutes nearly every Pallet Gyms was used, and at least 2 of the rock loop pallets. I had multiple chases where I did laps around the map and there was literally nothing I could use. I had never wanted a T&L more in my life. Only when I was out of chase did I notice the rock pallets in the absolute corners of the map. I've occasionally seen RNG as bad as in this video, for some reason during 1v1s (customs) I've noticed I got the worst RNG whether it be a variation of Storehouse that's literally empty, or a variation of Coal tower that's empty, or it's a variation of Storehouse with double pallets and 5 jungle gyms (all real, last one was a year or 2 ago tho).

[@Neopulse00]

The only bad map RNGs I've had were similar to the mention of Midwich of 3 hooks. It was 4 in my case (in a Silver II ranked game), and survivors would choose to be downed in a corner where there were none. Another was Coal Tower that was bad for survivors against my (very noobish) Hag. There were noticeable dead zones by the Coal Tower with no pallets.

[@clarkl1209]

Thank you Otz for bringing attention to this with your platform. Hopefully the devs actually do something about this soon.

[@HeyWhySoSalty]

The fact that this is over a year old and nothing has changed gives me no hope in the Devs abilities to do anything fair. I still see busted loops with zero value to survivors or extremely high amounts of pallets. It's one or the other. It's super rare to get something decently balanced.

[@loudwhispre9406]

Doesn't matter how survivor favored the map is, if I'm the fourth person the killer chases, the map will be empty. Its impossible to be impressed by another player's chase time, because I'm thinking of all the pallets they've burned to achieve that.

[@fairnut6418]

I love seeing the pallet I greeded 20 times get dropped🤤🤤

[@fairnut6418]

​@@user-rf4ig9jp3r I mean it changes from game to game, sometimes I feel like it would rather be me dropping the pallet and actually getting value rather than someone else "predropping" it. Other times I might goof and just not drop pallets at all, but usually I drop 1 or 2 per game. I have a "drop or chop" challenge active and it's been probably 10+ games in which I escaped multiple times yet I kid you not I'm 9/15 pallets through the challenge. There are records left which I might edit some time later if I won't forget.

[@ataru4646]

I think the craziest rng I ever had was on rancid. Main had the vault facing top side, to the right there was that strong haybale pallet, it connected into a long wall jungle gym. The long wall was actually positioned perfectly to link with cow tree. Then it went into a short wall jungle gym. Which lead into another strong haybale pallet. It linked perfectly into shack window. In the middle there was two pallets. First one being an L shape pallet the other one was cart pallet. Beside shack was some T and L walls which lead into yet another strong haybale pallet. Next to that was another long wall jungle gym. The vault was facing bottom side. So the pallet would be right by harvester which lead into a pallet gym which usually isn't a problem but there was another haybale pallet. Which lead into the side window of main. I was playing pig. And it made me never want to play m1 killers

[@PadraicSmith]

I recall once I encountered a suffocation pit that had a total of 7 pallets in it, including the ones that *had* to spawn.

[@doppeltpunktd5495]

During a coal tower 1v1 i once had the best possible map rng as survivor ever and ran the killer for like 5 minutes+ After that got a layout where there were only T L walls on entire map with no filler maps and lost in around a minute. Went from my funniest map rng experience to a really frustating one

[@deputyrook6232]

Devs: "You see, the game is balanced because it's equally bullshit for both sides."

[@middox239]

suffo pit, groaning storehouse, coaltower... all macmilan maps... damn

[@additionalgirth544]

The worst RNG I've ever seen was while playing Billy on Badham IV, the bush filler pallet tile between the shack and two story house had three pallets in the same tile. Right next to eachother.

[@gaigeriel]

I think you could make a monthly series out of this, because I know from personal experience everyone has definitely seen ridiculous map generation, whether is really strong or really weak.

[@RachelDAdams]

Oh, I've definitely had more trouble out of Shelter Woods and one of the AutoHaven maps (can't think of it offhand). The dead zones on those have been horrible. I may have a lot of hours in DBD but I'm not that great at it and my friends I play with just accept me and we have fun. But it's really difficult to ignore some of these dead zones and have fun. Especially if the killer realizes and hangs survivors in the dead zone. Thank you, Otz for pointing this out.

[@OfficialSatelliteMan]

Midwich is absolutely dire for hooks sometimes, especially if the survivor has Boil Over - which often forces you to drop/slug. RPD is awful always.

[@e2b265]

I can’t believe he has this whole video and doesn’t even mention the fact that they made an _entire section of RPD_ completely up to RNG, pretty much making it randomly either a medium sized map or a huge one.

[@toxy1858]

the weirdest thing i saw with them map gen was what i called a "surface basement", where 4 hooks spawned right next to one another and on a farm, which left me with only 3 other hooks to work with

[@tykukenielsen6210]

The only thing that sucks about this is that a proficient nurse main would have been like, "Oh was this meant to be a survivor sided map gen?" As they set a new world record.

[@Haru-spicy]

i feel like Otz is a real estate agent introducing survivors to their new home

[@FF-pv7ht]

Noone: Otz: Look at the worst maps possible in DbD Me, a myers main: "these all seem familiar.."

[@jeffycakes4206]

As a killer, I was sent to a Gideon Meat Plant with NO hooks in the whole west side of the map. The survivors just ran me there each time once they got the idea.

[@LethalShadow]

Paying and crowdsourcing QA for a very successful game, doing their work for them. It boggles the mind. I think what we learn from this is that the devs probably thought the parameters they set to limit bad map RNG were good enough so they didn't dig further into this issue. Now we have very clear proof that their parameters need to be worked on some more. Thank you to everyone who took the time to help with this.

[@jamesperse5510]

There should be a variable that consist of a god pallet and probably limit it to 1 to 3 per map. And have variables for the other tiles which are ranked in the code. Limit all of those, bad ones and god ones and it should be much more fair for everyone.

[@Ghostkiller__166]

Maybe it's time to remove the RNG from map layouts and just have 3 preset layout pools for each map. That way it's easier to balance, and easier for both survivor and killer to memorize.

[@Clairelover23]

I had a Macmillan, suffocation pit, where the shack side, next to the pile of logs, had a tree deadzone. And the other side of shack had a hill. That was it. There was NO pallets on the shack side.

[@oskiboski8]

The Legion: I missed the part where that's my problem

[@ZeroRoan]

One time I was playing as legion on suffocation pit, the main building had a vault that also had a giant boulder that broke line of sight long enough to break chase. So the vault was safe to loop for all time. Everyone I chased ran to that vault (it was a swf).

[@sredver1691]

There was a bug in Freddy's time where a window could appear in the trees and create a prison for anyone who jumped into it...

[@andresjimenez7174]

Enter Trickster, Nurse, and Pyramid Head who are regularly used killers and all share one thing in common: fuck pallets and windows; we can down whenever we want.

[@CubanPanda]

I don't think I've ever gotten any unfair layouts in DBD. Also, there is a game called Identity V and it is a unique DBD knockoff. The maps in that game make all of those DBD map layouts look extremely fair. In Identity V the amount of pallets on each map range from 31 to 49 pallets. They spawn in the same spot every match, the spawns of windows are always in the same place as well. There is a map called Red Church in IDV with 31 pallets, 21 windows, several God Tier kiting/looping areas, and the Exit Gates are on opposite sides of the map. Survivors or hunters have to destroy several walls to make the full 21 windows. The only thing that is RNG in thay game is Cipher Spawns (Gen Spawns) and Player Spawn Points.

[@ihusitusi]

When I started playing DBD I had the 5 parts in the middle of Suffocation pit being TL walls connecting directly into eachother, I am sure that cannot exist anymore

[@francescocaterino2694]

Nurse: I don't see the part where it's my problem

[@BouncingTribbles]

As someone who wants to main dredge I'm starting to get to the point where I'm seeing the locker RNG. It's amazing when in one game there are like 15 lockers, then in the next game there are like 40. Then there is the placement, 10 around 1 gen, but 3 gens without a locker anywhere near them. Or half the map just doesn't have any lockers at all, or very few. For every game where I get good locker RNG, I get a game with horrible lockers

[@denizilhan5265]

Damn, I would‘ve loved to send my most broken map in. I was on Wreckers Yard, with Spirit and had a absolutely disgusting 4 gen, with a even more unfair 3 gen. It was a insta win from the start. The 3 gen was at a corner of the map, 2 gens where at either side of the corner with 1 pallet gym, the other in a deadzone and 1 gen in the middle of it, next to a bad filler pallet (the one with tires piled up). The gens were about 5 sec of walking time apart and I could basically see all of the 4 gens by barely moving.

[@yapy326]

I don't remember how the map turned out tile-wise, but one time on suffocation pit as the artist, both I and all of the survivors spawned within sight of each other on the main-building side. I didn't even need the lethal pursuer i brought to see all 4 of them as soon as I spawned in, and I was able to immediately get into chase

[@Ritsu362]

I know I’m a killer main who has had maps like that suffo pit where I’ve cried about my powerlessness, but even I have to agree that the groaning storehouse in second place is so aids. Four pallets in a fairly big map is absolutely terrible. I feel bad for the people that had to play there :(

[@somescrub8960]

My worst map generation moment is on father Campbell's chapel where nearly all the windows spawned on the bottom floor making it near impossible to get anyone who went there as pig