Ireland's squad depth concerns for South Africa series

Bernard Jackman & Murray Kinsella discuss Ireland's squad depth issues ahead of the upcoming series vs South Africa.
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[@groenrizla2513]

From a Bok supporter and all S African channels and commentators agree, we are so stoked to see Ireland fighting at the top, absolutely brilliant to have another tough rivalry like NZ to play and a team that will push our limits. This will be a real 50/50 series, I can't even make a prediction, it's just unfortunate it's not 3 games but the positive for SA is that they can give the newcomers some time against Portugal in their obsession of creating depth before the next RWC while still taking these tests seriously, some very exciting players comming through, just hope Rassie gets the balance right in selection between new blood and the experienced players. Good luck Ireland, just got to love how Rassie is allowing the media to create the hype for the game, really promoting this fixture in SA, I'm really excited for this one.

[@cathalsheehan9596]

No, we lost the NZL game because we were destroyed at the breakdown, inconsistent in the line out and were consistently penalised in the scrum...and that happened from the first minute on. Blaming the bench in that game is just wilfully ignoring the real issue in that game.

[@PB22559]

Well said. Ireland lost ALL facets of the set piece battle in the QF. You don't win games when you lose the set piece. Plus, I'd argue Crowley should've been brought on for Sexton much earlier than he was and players like JOB and Conan made a positive impact when they came on.

[@eamonlyons8069]

The simple answer is that Irish sides get manhandled far too often. Bullied. We need players who aren't okay getting bullied every big game. Leinster have unfortunately not offered many or enough players with that mindset.

[@oisinfitzgerald5401]

@@PB22559this 1000%. Sexton looked lost on the pitch in the last 20 mins. Conan and JOB injected a lot of pace, could really see that the ABs had done their homework on Keenan at fullback

[@cathalsheehan9596]

@@eamonlyons8069 You mean Leinster got bullied against the Bulls...one game...

[@Cpchurch87]

​​@@eamonlyons8069I think the SA game proved we can handle physical teams. The issue is handling them consistently. Its hard to account for the vitriol with which NZ were going to come at us in that QF. They wanted to hurt us. I think, had Andy had more depth he'd have rotated a bit more in the pools, we'd have been fresher and that might have made the difference. Instead, players were out on their feet after getting bashed for 80 minutes and ultimately made errors (Sexton missed penalty to go 27-25 up, Doris dropped ball off the drop out from Kellehers held up try, Ringrose missing a huge overlap on the left with Lowe in those final phases at the end. It was a walk in try, made by a team who were out on their feet )

[@one_eyed_odin]

Team looks knackered tbh, both physically and definitely mentally, James Ryan was speechless after the bulls game and I guess the body can take only so much? The tests mean nothing to me personally if we beat SA this summer but can't beat them when it matters what's the point (NZ test reference).

[@cathalsheehan9596]

But we did beat them when it mattered, we bet them at the RWC.

[@harshbutfair8993]

@cathalsheehan9596 But it didn't REALLY matter. It wasn't a must win game.

[@neilmontgomery3470]

New Zealand beat us fair and square and more than likely then would have beaten SA too if they didn't have to play a man down for most of the game. I think New Zealand was the best team up until the final and just had some bad luck in that game.

[@cathalsheehan9596]

@@harshbutfair8993 It did matter, it was a RWC game…SA have yet to beat Ireland when it matters

[@Alias-gy3tz]

@@cathalsheehan9596 Pool games don't matter if you lose in the play offs.

[@mahlanguism]

Saffa here. Ireland will be just fine

[@oldman774]

Ireland will be fine, doomsday punditry isn't going to ease the pressure of expectation for Ireland. They have been a top team and has a very good record vs the Springboks over the last number of years. Only advantage the Boks have is home ground. The rest are just getting excuses in before the series, if they don't do well, the excuses are predetermined, if they do well, then the pundtis will say they are the best in the world.

[@cathalsheehan9596]

If Ireland win the series just give it a few weeks, this doomsday punditry will turn to dust in an instant, just showing off their lack of credibility.

[@MACCA0405]

@@cathalsheehan9596Ireland win the series?

[@kerrylass2]

Well geez your lot have been droning on for weeks about your injury list, despite the incredible depth yez have to draw on ...the Boks are clear favourites and talking yerselves up a lot so easing the pressure there then? 😁

[@cathalsheehan9596]

Remember everyone, Bernard Jackman wouldnt be saying any of these if Leinster/Munster weren't knocked out last week and he'll do a complete 180 on this if Ireland win the series in SA...

[@fawltyoldboybasil.2178]

Not sure how you got that impression. Jackman has raised these same issues (primarily about growing the numbers of players who could contend for the Green Jersey) re Irish Rugby on more than one occasion. Even when we were heading into the 2023 WC tournament he had said that our strength in depth in key positions was questionable. The latter half of this 2024 URC tournament, BJ has been pointing out the inconsistencies in the Leinster team performances. Generally speaking, Bernard Jackman is not one of these pundits who is subjective in his views of the game.

[@ianjacobs2998]

@@fawltyoldboybasil.2178 He has" so" much knowledge of the game !! From a South African 🇿🇦🇿🇦

[@kiaoragin]

Jackman is an very good pundit. This is not the first time he's spoken on these issues.

[@cathalsheehan9596]

@@kiaoragin For the most part he is but this is a subject I think he’s talking complete waffle on. Essentially what he wants is Ireland to copy the French model which just shows a real poor understanding of Irish rugby and is a disaster waiting to happen.

[@fawltyoldboybasil.2178]

@@ianjacobs2998 Well Jackman played for Connacht, Leinster, Sale Sharks and, Ireland. He was a coach in the Top 14 with Grenoble and, in the URC with Newport Dragons. He is currently the coach with Bective Rangers in Dublin. So yes he is quite knowledgeable about the game.

[@richard-king-]

Serious questions about depth at 1, 3, 9 & 10. Wings too perhaps.

[@inBODwetrust13]

No top pace on the wings whatsoever

[@jmo8934]

Get rid of the playing abroad rule? That would be dumb. The best thing you can do is just make hard choices and move players to different provinces where there is a log jam. There are only 4 teams and if you are not spreading them around those 4 teams then you are shooting yourself in the foot.

[@andrewmartinfarrell8167]

"More game time for Sam." Lazy journalism from Jackman and Kinsella doesn't call him out. One or both of them didn't do their research. Prendergast turned 21 in Feb. He played in 12 URC and 3 ECC games. He totaled 462 minutes. Point to another 20/21 yo in Irish rugby with 462 minutes Bernard? At the same age, Crowley had 3 sub appearances for Munster. Totalling 46 minutes. Were you asking for Crowley to go on loan? Were you asking for Crowley to get more game time? Do your research and stop grandstanding to the misinformed.

[@oisinfitzgerald5401]

Tbf it’s more that Prendergast is clearly better than the Byrne brothers right now, and even though he’s not as experienced as Ross, he should be starting those big games. Harry should probably be moved along, he’s still young but not up to the level of what Leinster need. I also think Crowley wasn’t at the same level as Prendergast is now when he was 21. Not saying he’s not a better player right now, just that the situation isn’t really the same

[@PB22559]

@@oisinfitzgerald5401 The hype surrounding Prendergast is way over the top. Leinster and Irish fans love overhyping their players.

[@cathalsheehan9596]

@@oisinfitzgerald5401 We don’t need to overhype them, they are just the best which is why Ireland have been top 2 in the world for as long as they have!

[@OscarOSullivan]

Difference is Crowley gets more caps and kicks for victory.

[@andrewmartinfarrell8167]

@PB22559 Indeed. It wad such a shock to see former Leinster player Keith Wood call for SP to be included in the RWC squad

[@johnnolan6462]

Dont agree on everything but I couldnt agree with Bernanrd more about the protectionsim hurting us in the long run, we only have 4 professional teams some young players are going weeks and months without exposure to games at the highest level (AIL not enough) not the best way to develop youth. Either let guys go abroad or look at launching a 5th team and the player development pathways should be reviewed, maybe provences can ringfence a certain number of prospects and the rest are up for an academy draft system?

[@OscarOSullivan]

The only team where that is a major problem is Leinster, too many players.

[@johnnolan6462]

@@OscarOSullivan accept your point Leinster the main culprit but has happened in other provinces too, Crowley 3-4 yrs from u20s to start getting meaningful games, Tom Ahern and Shane Daly the same and now Brian Gleeson likely the same for a few yrs despite obv potential. Between Munster and the Leinster log jam you would not be far off a competitive 25 players for another squad or open the Irish ban and create some pathways!

[@inBODwetrust13]

An academy "draft" system, aside from being illegal under basic employment law, is also moronic in forcing players to represent a team they may actively dislike. Great way to force players out of Irish rugby

[@johnnolan6462]

@@inBODwetrust13haha sure becasue Tadgh Beirne, Andrew Conway, Robbie Henshaw, Sean Cronin, Joey Carbery and many others I could go on, have "actively disliked" the provences then ended up representing but sure its much better that careers flame out in an academy without a proper chance at the top level. Many already leave the country to start playing top level rugby if you want to keep them at home then improve the pathways to gametime and that might involve Leinster sharing some resources for the benefit of the overall system, also I am a Dublin Leinster fan so its not for my own benefit. NZ players move openly to find game time within the country, and they havent lost the spice in their rivalries. Be open to new ideas or fall behind, doesnt have to be a draft system!

[@celtic333ful]

Jesus, Jackson does my head in

[@FuturesTrader87]

In the healy example him getting 50 60 minutes elsewhere would have meant porter gets the bench slot and healy starts for ireland for way move years and extends his career at the top. They just handed porter the jersey too easily and he just wasn't better than healy.

[@ajjs8869]

Need to better spread the young talent we produce. Each player spends 3 years in their home academy (which they can play for senior team during) and then every year all graduating talents are eligible for a draft. Each province gets 3/4 protected players which they auto get, but then after that, it's like the NFL draft, the province who finishes bottom gets first choice etc i.e Connacht would get Leinster's 4/5th best young academy prospect, Ulster the 5/6th etc

[@kiaoragin]

I thought Coombes should be ahead of Cian Prendergast and Nick Timoney. He has performed better than those two players in my opinion and is a great player to bring off the bench. I don''t see Timoney or Prendergast having the same impact.

[@OscarOSullivan]

I would rather Hodnett than any of them, more success playing in South Africa.

[@mollyoko]

Agree on players being considered to play outside of Ireland. We only have 4 professional teams and while we may only pick a few abroad players the opportunity should be there. Jackman talks sense.

[@JohnSmith-wo2fz]

Jackman never talks sense. A few years ago he wanted to import a load of pacific islanders to play for ireland because Irish people don't have the size. His takes are some of the dumbest you'll hear. The thing you say makes sense would destroy domestic rugby in ireland.

[@DM-rp9ik]

Ridiculous to send Healy to Racing where he would probably be a reserve squad player at lets say 32 or 33 and lose form and fitness. Its hard to believe Jackman is this blind to the faults of what hes suggesting. Basically what the WRU implement which eventualy crumbes the national side. Easy solution the IRFU need to be more efficient make a call on an average player who is 25 years plus and not likely to improve look at move them on if they are holding back someone with obvious potential. Maybe on a case by case basis.

[@davidwalker2402]

There seems to be a lot of waffle going on here. Every time I listen to jackman his opinions seem to change, he’s now a pundit who only sings when we are winning. If we happen to get a result in SA he will be able to tell us all why we are so great . Failed player coach and now pundit 😂

[@PB22559]

I tend to agree. I used to enjoy his insight a few years ago but now he just chops and changes all the time. You could summarise his 10min ramble down to- Ireland don't have enough quality strength in depth.

[@neilmontgomery3470]

I must admit he does seem to be a bit of a cheerleader when we are winning and then goes completely the other way when we lose.

[@cathalsheehan9596]

@@PB22559 Except even that I would question as ultimately Ireland's record disproves that point.

[@andrewmartinfarrell8167]

His suggestion about uncapped moving is a good one but then he uses the example of Cian Healy. It also takes him far too long to deliver his point because even though he mentioned Healy and Racing, he's not suggesting Healy and Racing blah blah. Hurry up and stop waffling

[@PB22559]

@@cathalsheehan9596 Ireland have done well considering they dont have the strength in depth of SA, NZ, Fra, Eng.

[@StephenCrooks-v1g]

Only interested in Leinster and Munster players. Cooney has been the best 9 in the URC this year and Dave McCann has played very well across the back row. If he had been at Leinster he would probably have gotten his chance. Only at Leinster can you be 3rd or 4th choice and still be picked for Ireland. The IRFU have no interest in broadening the player profile across the Provences.

[@one_eyed_odin]

Ya I've been well impressed with Cooney this season tbh and can't believe no one is talking about him and tbh as a Leinster fan I'd love to see him in the squad instead of byrne(s)

[@OscarOSullivan]

No Hodnett as an openside flanker even though he knows what it takes to win in South Africa. The Scott Penny call up ahead of Timoney or Coombes was a thundering disgrace.

[@grahamshaw3802]

Different positions ​@@one_eyed_odin

[@MACCA0405]

Cooney? Really?

[@neilbennett9281]

Gotta love that blind allegiance.

[@neilmontgomery3470]

I like that expectations are low in this tour. South Africa should rightly be favorites in their own country. I don't think we should go too nuts even if we lose both games. In the end it doesn't really matter this far out from a world cup anyway and the only people that care are the Bok fans who see the pool match loss against us as a kind of slight on their World Cup.

[@PB22559]

Wrong. The Bok players and management care a lot about this upcoming tour. Watch their recent interviews. They're really up for this test series.

[@neilmontgomery3470]

@@PB22559 This is an Irish podcast. I was talking about Irish expectations.

[@MeiA-h9r]

I hate it and it’s a bit cowardly for my liking DeAllende expressed Saffas views on how the Irish media have disrespected South Africans recent success and even pre RWC Since you’ve dished it out and now this tour is coming up where the Boks are taking it seriously, now the Irish punditry is putting down the importance of this tour as an opportunity for young players to get some caps. That s bullocks This tour is to determine who is really the no1 and best team in the world. No1 vs No2! Let’s GO!

[@PB22559]

@@MeiA-h9r I don't think there's any doubt about who's the best- its SA. They won the world cup. They're not playing at a neutral venue, Playing at home in SA will be an advantage to SA.

[@neilmontgomery3470]

@@MeiA-h9r Do you really think that SA will admit Ireland are a better team if Ireland win the tour?

[@shiroism8039]

South Africa is going to absolutely flog Ireland.

[@HeeniKeke]

If they don’t, the backlash is going to be epic! Burden is on SA

[@Smith-hl6ms]

In form ireland aee better their pundits are ao negati ve thats why i never look at them here credit 🇮🇪

[@joedennehy386]

Ireland are declining which is natural, saffers, who knows?

[@wirigumbie5798]

As a Bok fan - am under no illusion that Ireland has plenty of depth - their teams may not have won URC but are typically the toughest teams to play home and away and play a similar style which South African teams tend to battle with. for Boks, we must use the time to identify the next generation as the double RWC champions, third time winners is realistic if we manage our player talent pool properly and continue to evolve our style of play.

[@foggy7577]

Zebo was interviewed on the KOKO show and mentioned he would get tax back for his 10 best professional years following retirement? First time I've heard of it and assuming this would extend to all provincial players and not just Irfu contracted? Surely that's a incentive for guys who have only grown up in one system since they were 14 to stay in a familiar environment with the same players since age grade, rather than the risk of going abroad,especially if they are not the 1st choice big names i.e they go abroad and still don't get played?

[@clibo1]

Ireland is seen by the Northern Hemisphere as the best rugby team in the world. They are being too hard on themselves already. The Springboks is going all out and desperearte to win against the darling of Northern Rugbym. It will surely be a great Test match series, proper old school all out war. I cant wait 😭

[@JastorKeane-ln2tz]

Thanks for your kind words but Irish people don’t think we are the best in the world and certainly the other teams in the NH don’t either. Over the last few years we’ve been a solid 2nd or 3rd

[@clibo1]

@@JastorKeane-ln2tz Ireland won the 6N again, had a record number of straight wins and had been number 1. They are the only ones that beat the Boks in the World Cup. I don't agree they are solid 2 or 3. As a South African I'm so nervous 😂.

[@MeiA-h9r]

Why are these Irish pundits doing a complete 180 from the views they had pre and post 6 Nations when people proclaimed you as the best team in the world What’s changed?!!! Where’s that hubris and that confidence for this tour

[@fawltyoldboybasil.2178]

Are these the same 2 Pundits who made those exact Proclamations? Complete 180????? You mustn't listen to these 2 pundits that often. Both would be best described as 'cautious' when it comes to discussing Irish Ruby matters. FYI - Ireland were RANKED the Best Team in the World BY WORLD RUGBY because of their record, NOT because Pundits/Fans said they were! Seems to me that most of the criticism of Ireland has nothing to do with the Rugby Team and everything to do with certain groups getting bent out of shape because the team was doing so well.

[@cathalsheehan9596]

Because they are cheerleaders, they'll do another 180 and say everything is rosey if we win the series.

[@JastorKeane-ln2tz]

Injuries and getting kicked out in the quarter final

[@DM-rp9ik]

They are reverting back to their default pre six nations which is Ireland are ready to be found out

[@kerrylass2]

Well by official rankings we were no 1 for 17 months..our win rate was impressive by any standards so thats why many and including non Irish said we were then best in the world pre WC. ( although in fairness even back then irish players like Furlong and others always disparaged the ranking system and said it meant little.) SA are now clearly no 1 ...plus in truth the Irish team are struggling with depth etc. since the WC. and provincially its been a poor season for us.. So thats the change...simple logical and easily explained. Yes little confidence for this tour but hardly surprising as most of us are realists

[@slissane]

9 minutes of dribble & waffle....as one of my teachers often said...shut your , , and give your mouth a chance. Surely you can get better guests Murray...or just talk yourself

[@DM-rp9ik]

Fuck sake carve it up at Bristol no thanks I think Jackman massively overates the level in England and France.

[@seanofarrell8896]

You could make the same argument with scott Robinson with his 1st new Zealand side with crusaders

[@Alias-gy3tz]

Do you really want to compare club rugby to international rugby? That's cute :)

[@paulnash5500]

Say that to his Face David 😂

[@Juggergenix]

How does European nations think they will develop depth? The RSA teams have 99.9% South African players. Yet the Euro league teams are dotted with SANZAR and Island players. You'll win leagues, but not world cups..

[@pock0077]

Probably the best rugby analyst in the media

[@itistrue101]

Bafana Bafana Boks vs Paddy and the Imports. It'll mean a lot more to the latter, hopefully it lives up to the billing.