Which is Better? Sonic 3 and Knuckles or Sonic Mania?

[@Supermariorpg6]

I really wished you had more subscribers, KZbin has been a cluster for a lot of people these days... I'm starting to witness more, and more videos getting lesser views.... God I hate this website, but I love many of the content creators here too, just know you got my support.

[@Supermariorpg6]

Yeess? @@mudriderR

[@AdamSelvig]

Bomber Blurr make good videos and have a lot of patients and your channel will have a lot of subscribers it certainly didn’t took my channel long to reach 1000

[@ivanbatalla8284]

Sonic mania

[@YuriEnjoyer52]

youtube algorithm, am I right?

[@Supermariorpg6]

@@YuriEnjoyer52 3 Years Later... It's a luxury to get at least 3k views these days.

[@JustJohn43]

Well hello, can I join the s3&k is better than Mania club? I knew I wasn't alone

[@zachzi2368]

No ur not

[@zachzi2368]

I like s3&k BETTER than sonic mania

[@zachzi2368]

Me too

[@zachzi2368]

S3&k is way past cool than mania

[@MentabytesChill]

Frick your opinion

[@Froban]

One of Sonic Mania's strengths were the original levels. If another Mania-style game were to happen, it would need to stand on its own two feet and be more original, but Sega clings onto the Mega Drive days because it was the only time they were ever successful in a way they could never replicate.

[@ArtistMarkFlynn]

Completely agreed. I didn't not enjoy those levels but they have lost their appeal a lot quicker. Fingers crossed for the future!

[@WorKSimi]

I think it would be cool if they brought back game gear zones! Maybe even sonic 3 multiplayer stages

[@jjc4924]

I didn't mind the rehash zones to much since they add more content & different paths in the level designs that still makes it fun. It's not like Generation 3DS where the level designs of those games repeated the same level design as the originals were with no new gimmick or different paths in the level designs whatsoever. Mania's is acceptable. But I do agree that I wish they would've made new and original zones in Mania more than the rehash ones. But at the same time, I don't mind & it doesn't ruined the gaming experience.

[@charliekahn4205]

SEGA is still technically successful in its other IPs, like Valkyria Chronicles. What SEGA should do is go back to its awesome stockpile of RPG series built up on the MD and Saturn. Maybe a new Thor/Oasis series game would be well received.

[@hyperthethiccboi8698]

@@senderbleeper gee you sure don't know what Constructive Criticism is

[@butcherax]

I agree 100%. One of the best things about S3&K is the heightening sense of suspense, as the adventure builds continuously from start to finish, particularly in the last half of S&K. I think Mania's team attempted this, but they were limited by Takeshi Iizuka's recycle directive.

[@YujiUedaFan]

Actually, Mania's team didn't even attempt a story, because if they did, then the opening cutscene would have had some plot to it instead of Sonic and co. going into an elevator and running around random shapes. I also don't like that the opening world is never show in game and I think it should have been using that instead of Blue Spheres again. Story based Sonic games have gone to the wayside because of the infamy of 06 and Rise of Lyric. Instead it's all stuff that can immediately be retconned right away in case ST or whoever's making the games screws up. They're long stopped taking chances with anything non-Classic Sonic, because most people see Classic Sonic games as non-story driven games that have no cheesy dialogue and the classic levels. Not to mention Tails barely even exists in Mania because he just has Sonic's routes and the lack of a story shows he's even less in the spotlight that he was in S3K.

[@hatslapper6860]

Yeah he doesn't even get his flickies for turning super.

[@justgn7454]

butcherax Well said!

[@YujiUedaFan]

@@justgn7454 Me or butcherax?

[@Prime_Legend]

@@YujiUedaFan You said it right. Many classic fans seem to forget classic Sonic actually had simple but well defined plots. I'll admit Sonic 1 has no plot, sonic 2 is a step up and adds more context towards the end. Sonic CD had a pretty good amount of story actually. S3&K blew it out of the park with narrative. And yeah, 3D Sonic games are seen to have bad stories cuz of 06, Boom and the outdated presentations in the older titles like SA1 and SA2.

[@mateuspokemon01]

I felt the same way when I played Mania for the first time. I always felt like it was missing some of the conection between the zones that S3&K had and playing mania just made me want to play S3&K more

[@Obi-Wan_Kenobi]

Thank you so much for including footage from my channel in your video! It is a tremendous honor to have some of my gameplay in such an awesome and informative video! I don't know how you did it, but I'm pretty sure that you made the footage look even better in your video compared to how it looks in my original videos! XD I loved how succinct, clear, and earnest you were in this video! You make extremely valid points about the values of story and originality. Those are some of the most important qualities in not just video games but fictional media as a whole. I love remembering the past but it's important to not just replicate, we must innovate! Endless repetition will not create something wonderful that will always be remembered, rather it will just produce empty husks of past successes that serve to inspire no one! Your video also just reinforced how badly I need to play Sonic 3 and Knuckles in the future! I can't keep watching videos about that game without playing it myself! Again, great video and thank you so much for letting me contribute to it in the smallest of ways! In this instance, it is *you* who has given me the High Ground and I could not be happier!

[@ArtistMarkFlynn]

Thank you so much man! I'm so glad you enjoyed the content and thanks again for letting me use your footage :) you should definitely play 3&k when you can!

[@Obi-Wan_Kenobi]

@@ArtistMarkFlynn Responses like this one make me wish I could heart people's comments on other channels! Take this pitiful and inadequate Like instead!

[@fatchipkid3759]

We meet again ;)

[@deatsbybre7162]

I absolutely loved Mania, but 3 and Knuckles was my childhood and I still go back to it sometimes. I gotta give it to 3&K.

[@Iamnotindangeriamthedanger26]

Nostalgia carry 💀

[@theharvardyard2356]

Very fair way of putting it, "I acknowledge this is probably objectively better, but this other thing appeals to me more personally" is a way I'd describe my affection for some games I know aren't strictly 10/10 as well. Quality is objective to a point, but on the other hand different people like different things! For example, I'd agree that 3 and Knuckles is objectively the better game, but I much prefer Sonic 2 because of how the level design is a bit more streamlined and focuses more on speed than exploration compared to 3. But that's just me!

[@Orange_Swirl]

Oh God, I thought it was just me.

[@Imfernolistico]

Couldn't have explained it better. I like Mania more,but I still love 3&K.

[@DSolymanH]

I agree completely. Sonic needs new ideas such as Studiopolis, such a great stage. Green Hill zone is in every game and part of me says it should be cut but then the addict part of me isnt sure and doesnt like change. Bummer about the comics. There are s lot of things I threw away as a kid that I wish I could recoup. Like the boxes and instruction manuals for my SNES, N64, and all their games.

[@ArtistMarkFlynn]

Yes so many things, but the comics were just in such abundance! I must have had hundreds of them! Such a silly boy.

[@ArtistMarkFlynn]

And yes, Studiopolis and Press Garden are two of the nicest looking sonic stages I have seen in forever. I MUST HAVE A GAME WITH MORE OF THIS!!!

[@butcherax]

Studiopolis and Mirage Saloon were easily the best parts of Mania for me. There's such great potential for a fully original game with Headcannon & co.

[@charliekahn4205]

I did like the idea that Forces posed to fix this problem, where levels were brand new but located in the locations of the old levels, like how Lost Valley is not Green Hill Zone, but is in the Green Hill region. Pity they didn't follow through with this though.

[@eggsallent_boi]

Sonic fans: Really green hill zone again?!? Kirby fans: aw sweet, green greens and wispy woods!

[@LostChildOfTime]

The only thing about Mania that let me down was how the last level killed the hope it had of not actually feeling like a fan game. Sonic 3 & Knuckles is just... way more polished and although Mania offers a lot of great things that can push classic style games towards a good future, I'm not convinced that ten years from now, Mania is going to be on the level of S3&K. Right now, I rank it below all of the classic main series games (except CD), but about as good as CD and the Advance series. As you mentioned, S3&K really does a better job of making you want to finish the game to the end. Mania is a great title... and I may feel different about it in the future, but right now, I just don't see it touching the legendary status of Sonic 3 & Knuckles and I think the difference is that Mania lets you play Sonic, but Sonic 3 & Knuckles lets you experience Sonic... and no amount of improvement in Mania can compensate for that.

[@Stephen-Fox]

I entirely agree - From a pure gameplay standpoint, Mania is the better game, but I prefer 3&K because Mania has a bit too much of the old stuff, and the narrative is weaker.

[@jjc4924]

I can agree. I still prefer 3 & Knuckles a little bit more. But I can't stay mad at Mania. It's an close 2nd after 3&K.

[@Milennin]

S3&K advantages over Mania: -Large set of purely original and well-designed stages -Memorable and epic boss fights -Story events with cool things happening -Goes for cool factor instead of goofy factor -Extra bonus stages are fun and reward useful stuff -Hyper Sonic Mania advantages over S3&K: -Has more visual flair due to being a modern production -Emerald bonus stages are pretty fun Sonic 3 & Knuckles is easily the superior game. Mania is a step in the right direction for modern Sonic, though.

[@SilverSonic1992]

Completely agree, and it also had the Knuckles in Sonic 2 bonus game; who didn't want to play as Knuckles in Sonic 2?

[@BlueJack222]

Don't you mean a continuation for Classic Sonic

[@cakelayer]

Sonic 3 sucks, its the only sonic game in which I constantly lose rings and die, you saying the levels are well designed is like saying there were no glitches is 06

[@Milennin]

@@cakelayer I don't see how that happens, especially if you've played other 2D Sonic games before. The formula is the same as 1 and 2 with a few extra things added. There are so many rings in each stage, and it rewards exploration a lot.

[@elijahhernandez3934]

@@Milennin Exploration for rings is kinda useless because we have the internet.

[@LucasMBoysOurRoy]

Pretty much my exact thoughts. You hit it right on the nail. Great video!

[@ArtistMarkFlynn]

Thank you! Glad to see someone on the same page as me! :)

[@tardistime6857]

Your videos just keep getting better

[@ArtistMarkFlynn]

Thanks Michael! I always appreciate your support. Onwards and upwards!

[@VideoGameAnimationStudy]

Same thoughts as me. Sonic 3K had a much better and coherent story.

[@TheRealDustinNunn]

I like both S3&K/Sonic 3 Complete and Sonic Mania/Sonic Mania Plus.

[@ArtistMarkFlynn]

Same here! Both great games

[@JonThysell]

I agree. S3&K is my favorite game of all time, though these days I prefer the slight polish from the Sonic 3 Complete rom hack. I bought the big collector's box for Sonic Mania, but after one play-through I wasn't really excited to try again with the other characters. Don't get me wrong, it is a great game, and I loved the bonus stages, both the Sonic CD-esque chase for the emerald and the new selection of Blue Sphere levels, but honestly I'd rather a console release of the RetroEngine Sonic 1, 2, 3&K, and CD, followed by a steady stream of new games with Mania's tech. I have this feeling, perhaps irrational, that Mania is Sega's "let's just make one big 2d Sonic fan-service game" while they keep pushing forward with modern 3d sonic everywhere else. (Which I also love too, up to Heroes at least). Or give Taxman access to the Sonic Advances, Rushes, etc and run with those.

[@charliekahn4205]

Or maybe get the Mania team to assist slightly on new games and have them work entirely on Mania-esque spinoffs and remakes. Then they can add more devs to Team Mania from the various fan-game hubs, so they can collaborate on remaking the 3d games as well as the 2d ones.

[@autistichades5552]

I felt exactly the same. Sonic Mania can't really stand on its 2 feet when there's no nostalgia involved. It's pretty much JUST the classic genesis games that we already have access to in the likes of steam and MANY ports and nothing else but a few level improvements. I feel that Sega really dropped an opportunity to make the ACTUAL Sonic 4 with Taxman and Stealth.

[@artistjosephtubb]

Both awesome but S3K is always going to win for me. 🤗

[@caidonnelly3942]

I Respect How He Can Admit That Sonic Mania Is Better Yet He Likes 3&K Better You Are A Chad

[@iregretsomeofmypreviouscom3284]

I still preffer S3&K way more than Mania because i didn't like Mania's final zone, the story was more interesting, it innovated more, Hyper Sonic and Doomsday (which Mania's true final boss didnt capture that feeling well). But both are great games.

[@Migdo14]

I agree with you,Sonic 3 with knuckles still better than Sonic mania,although I still thinks Sonic mania is a great game like you said I would it prefer is they create new stuff and not re-use stuff from past Sonic games.To me it seems like a lazy approach from the creators.

[@ArtistMarkFlynn]

I don't think the creators are lazy at all, far from it in fact. I think they probably would have wanted to make something entirely new... I think it was SEGA and Sonic team that likely pushed for this to have more throw back content in here... They seem reliant on these past throwbacks for some kind of security to sell games. But I agree with the rest, the re-use of stuff just isn't making the best of what the team can do.

[@Lanman106]

Your content is so well put together! I hope more people notice your videos.

[@ArtistMarkFlynn]

Thanks! Comments like that truly go a long way and I really appreciate the kind words. If you can share with any friends who you think would like this I'd massively appreciate it!

[@Lanman106]

@@ArtistMarkFlynn I will! Keep up the hard work!

[@e-soldier3533]

To me, S3K was & still is my fav game. It has amazing levels, music, a subtle but great story line, and super/hyper forms never before improved to date.

[@XRISEandSHINEX]

Yup, I do agree too. Sonic 3 and Knuckles is my favorite and is very nostalgic, but Mania is technically the better one.

[@onaretrotip]

Great video, Mark!

[@ArtistMarkFlynn]

Thank you mate! Glad you enjoyed it!

[@matti.8465]

I absolutely love the game's little story and how it tells it without a single word. There's a motivation, there's character development on Knuckles, there is a focus on the Death Egg as a constant threat (In Sonic 2 it just shows up at the end). The world of Angel Island feels like an actual place where an old civilization lived in, there are forests, forsty wonderlands, ancient temples and there are levels like Flying Battery and Launch base that show Robotnik's effect on the island. There are transitions and details in the background, it's like a little Sonic movie. No wonder why Sonic Adventure wanted to give Knuckles and the island more context.

[@emilimarc]

If only Sega remakes Sonic 3 in Manía engine, adding new stuff with Migthy and Ray.

[@dashi-musashi351]

It’s like a 2D Sonic adventure before the actual Sonic Adventure. Such a banger game.

[@yuutheuser]

Imagine a sequel to Mania with all new levels with a new sprite more resembling the Toei design, that would ruffle my feathers in a good way if I do say so myself

[@Bonetrousle]

Sonic 3 &K Becuz it introduced a few lovable zones! Lava Reef Zone, Flying Battery, Mushroom Hill And Hydrocity! *BUT DONT FORGET ABOUT ICE CAP!*

[@ArtistMarkFlynn]

Ice cap is the one

[@MikeJackson690]

Launch Base, Hydrocity and Death Egg are also excellent levels.

[@ThunderJams]

As someone who played S3&K after Mania (with Mania being the game which really inspired me to play these classic titles), I prefer 3 and Knux. Almost every zone in 3&K feels cinematic, more than your average Sonic level, or any 16 bit platformer. Angel Island catching on fire. Tails carrying you in the Marble Garden boss. Snowboarding in Ice Cap. The changing seasons in Mushroom Hill. Literally everything about Lava Reef. It's just so cool. There's a huge attention to detail in S3&K which makes each moment stand out. The new animations for the crew give them way more life than Sonic 1 and 2 (especially Sonic, who has so much more personality here). I love how in Lava Reef Zone, you can see the looming shadow to the Death Egg throughout the stage, and it gets closer and eventually activates. Whilst Mania is definetly better on a gameplay level, 3 and Knuckles really nails the detail, polish, atmosphere, everything else. And those elements are really important to me in a game as well, not just the gameplay!

[@Coelh021]

Few people mention this, but the widescreen gameplay Mania features makes playing Sonic so much better, everytime I go back to the classics I miss widescreen.

[@aolson1111]

Christian Whitehead made a S3&K Remastered prototype that was widescreen. Supposedly, Sega won't give the go ahead because of music rights licensing issues.

[@soni-switch5207]

Go play Sonic 3 AIR then.

[@triiodide7762]

Sonic 3 AIR

[@triiodide7762]

Buy the steam version of 3&k, it's 5 dollars, then download sonic 3 air for free and it automatically detects the steam rom. It's legal, and it adds 1080p 60fps, and a bunch of options for music, visuals, and gameplay

[@ultrairrelevantnobody1862]

Apart from Sonic Mania rehashing a lot of old levels. I also liked the bonus stages in Sonic 3&K more. They were more varied and can be finished in roughly 10-20 seconds. I don't like having to play Blue Sphere more than like 40 times. Blue Sphere is good (the best special stages from the old Sonic games) but playing them constantly can get repetitive quickly.

[@SilverSonic1992]

I agree. Blue Spheres worked in Sonic 3 as a special stage and even the impossible "No Way?" minigame, but they don't work as bonus stages. They only give you a silver or gold medal, and after getting them all, they really have no gameplay purpose in Mania. Not to mention it begins to get repetitive.

[@ultrairrelevantnobody1862]

I forgot about the "No Way?" Minigame. I remember the really difficult design of the blue sphere stages being very fun and challenging to overcome. That and the fact that I'm not forced to play them, just there for those who wanted more of blue spheres.

I just practically watched all of your videos and its safe to say i love your channel. I subbed. I Can't wait to see more great content! Keep it up!

[@ArtistMarkFlynn]

Thanks so much. I really appreciate it!

@@ArtistMarkFlynn Anytime!

[@BryanTheCritic]

Your final sentiment is why I still haven't picked up Mania or Generations despite playing just about every Sonic out there. Remixes and nostalgia don't do it for me. If I wanted to play old levels then I would fire up my old games. And I totally understand that remakes/remasters/remixes and nostalgia in general are huge these days and that I'm in the minority but I keep my old games around to return to. I expect new games to be ....well, new.

[@ArtistMarkFlynn]

I can totally see your point there man. With me I love a nostalgic aesthetic. Not nostalgic content if that makes sense. Celeste is an indie game with an incredible retro look and feel. But the content is 100% new so it really stands out to me. Sonic Mania plus achieves this in some ways. Press Garden and Studiopolis being the highs. But it's such a shame the whole journey isn't like that!

[@BryanTheCritic]

@@ArtistMarkFlynn yup, I can get behind this idea. There's a huge difference between a game subtly reminding me of my past and a game yelling at me "remember this level? Remember this character?" Stuff like Shovel Knight and Celeste are certainly the former while Mania is the latter.

[@sppsports2449]

I recently got a weekend off from work and I wanted to revisit one of these games. My goal was to 100% either one over the weekend. I loved S3&K as a kid. I beat Sonic Mania 100% when it came out and haven't played it since. Struggling to determine which game I want to revisit. This video helps!

[@nuik_music]

General kenobi deployed me here and has earned you a new sub

[@ArtistMarkFlynn]

He has the higher ground and exceptional taste. Thanks for coming over and for the sub! Much appreciated!

[@nuik_music]

@@ArtistMarkFlynn great content deserves attention

[@ArtistMarkFlynn]

@@nuik_music Thanks bud. Let me know what you think of the character design videos, i think they are my best!

[@nuik_music]

@@ArtistMarkFlynn will check them out rn

[@TorellSuggs]

5:21 and sonic superstars was made

[@shalpp]

Sonic 3 is so great cause it had a fuck huge staff to work on the game from the start, and also needed to beat the first two titles combined

[@SkillJim]

Great video dude, only just got around to watching it, but completely agree with everything you said! A brand new Sonic game in the style of Mania would be amazing!

[@kaptainyl1509]

Im sorry but I prefer sonic 3 and knuckles, it is one if the few games that I haven’t changed opinions on, the nostalgia is real

[@ArtistMarkFlynn]

Why you apologising I prefer that as well!

[@DSolymanH]

Hell yes, Mark. Love your videos, mate.

[@ArtistMarkFlynn]

Cheers as always David! You the man.

[@banksy7376]

i fully agree. i really enjoyed sonic mania the first time through, but it doesnt stand out in my mind like S3&K did

[@OGBuddah]

Awesome video good Sir. Growing up I was mostly a Nintendo fanboy and it was not until recently I played Sonic 3+ Knuckles through, which was to prepare for Sonic Mania Plus. Because of that I love to see different perspectives on those amazing Sega games I never got the chance to play. That being said, I agree with you completely since I do have nostalgia for the original Sonic series, Mania is better.

[@andrewstevens2853]

Sonic 3 & Knuckles 4 lyfe.

[@ArtistMarkFlynn]

Fantastic profile picture

[@Justafox1994]

5:36 " Catch my drift " Including Rings

[@bluecorp8557]

Sonic 3 and Knuckles no contest because it’s actually original level design and waaay better Super Sonic fight.

[@HYPERxSONICxFANx2012]

And Hyper Sonic

[@chrislacy1990]

- Story: 3&K - Visuals: Mania - Sound: 3&K - Mechanics: Mania - Fan Service (tiebreaker): Mania Winner: Mania

[@triiodide7762]

Idk, something about 3&k just FEELS better to play. I also like the insta shield a lot. It's op as fuck. Though mania has WAY better level design.

[@CoM88y]

I respect your opinion (I think sonic mania is better )

[@KennytheHedgehog619]

Couldn't agree more, love this channel!

[@ArtistMarkFlynn]

Cheers Kenny! Massively appreciate the kind words!

[@dewdropp8587]

**reads title** Me: So you're asking the big questions, huh?

[@tearlach47]

You know, everyone says that if Mania just had all original level themes and zones, it would easily have been the real "Sonic 4" and it wouldn't even be a question as to if it was better than S3K. From what I've heard, I think that before Sonic Mania was set to include 8 older zones from previous games, Sonic Mania may have just turned out to be those 4 new zones alone, maybe with a couple more new zones. We wouldn't have gotten 12 entirely new zones for the game at any rate, especially with limited development time. But dammit, if they had the chance for a sequel or successor to Mania, it'd better be an all new story for the blue blur.

[@matti.8465]

Yes, it was actually Sonic Team who presented the idea so they could have a longer game. Funny how people try to blame them for the game's lack of originality as if they were evil executives who crush creativity.

[@ExplodingMusicSyndrome]

nice video man, i have meant to pick up sonic mania for like 3 years now, it always slips my mind, i have still yet to play it

[@raythepony]

Honestly, I just think all the Classic Sonic games are neck and neck, mostly because I really enjoy them all.

[@SharifSourour]

Fair enough. I actually think Sonic 2 is probably the best in the series or maybe Sonic CD. Sonic Mania feels like a modern Sonic 2 with added levels and modern updates but Sonic & Knuckles & Sonic 3 is a whole different vibe which I was never able to get as much into as the other Sonic games (Especially Sonic 3). LOL I was more satisfied to play as Knuckles in Sonic 2 probably because I invested so much into that game, getting Super Sonic without cheating.

[@bchristian85]

This is a great point. I typically will go to Sonic Mania when I would have previously played Sonic 2, but S3&K is extremely tough to beat and I honestly don't know if it's possible to make a better Sonic game that 3&K was.

[@kfishwick3]

2:24 Man, I had the EXACT same thought last night! Oh I wish I'd kept my Sonic Comics they were so, so cool! All those different art designs and concepts in one comic.. magical.

[@ArtistMarkFlynn]

I know man. Its a tragedy 😒

[@brolookatthatthingbehindyo1324]

S3&K simply because it's the more original game, but even still Mania is high up there with the greatest Sonic games ever

[@sword0948]

I prefer S3&K mostly because : - People may not consider it an argument but I think it's fair cause Mania benefits A LOT from its newer engine (60FPS, camera, overall smoothness..) : Sonic 3 AIR is an amazing S3&K-Only emulator (unlockable dropdash and debug mode, modern menus, achievements, fixes, tweaks, great mods.. AND is playable on ANY device : Android, modded Switch, Windows, even in your web browser) - The story obviously because Mania's story kinda bored me tbh (don't even remember it) - Zones in Mania are mostly the classic older ones and honestly, it annoyed me, I had some fun but did feel like I was playing a collection of levels and not an entire game compared to S3&K zones which are fun, original, are directly linked to the story (Angel Island burning for example), etc.. - Hyper sonic is in the game and is actually meaningful, not just a mod to add it "on top of the game" etc..

[@Iamnotindangeriamthedanger26]

In resume: nostalgia carry

[@loseControlGD]

Sonic 1 Sonic 2 Sonic 2 & Knuckles Sonic 3 Sonic 3 & Knuckles Sonic Mania Sonic Mania Plus Sonic 4 That's how all the games go in order

[@sheaedwards]

I know it's a kinda controversial opinion, but I never found 3K that fun. 2 and CD have always been more fun to me, 2 because I find it has better level design purely in terms of how I like classic Sonic stages to be, skill based rollercoasters, and I like CD more because of its atmosphere and how short and replayable it is. Sonic 3K has great level design, but my favorite levels are the more 2-like levels, like Flying Battery, rather than the more complex designs like Marble Garden, and it doesn't really have a strongly consistent atmosphere, just a strong atmosphere in each level and maybe in the last 3 levels of And Knuckles. Mania feels like taking Sonic 2's approach to level design and not overcomplicating it like 3 sort of did. It's linear, but even the most linear stages, namely Flying Battery and Titanic Monarch, can take a long time without it feeling like you've ever been halted. Plus, I still think Unleashed is the best Sonic game of all time, but that's me.

[@Ness32nsider]

Sonic 3 & Knuckles has always been my all-time favorite 2D Sonic game. ^____^ Sonic Mania is ok for what it is but 3&Knuckles was a completely brand new original game with a memorable story while mania is mostly just a collection of large "Sonic CD styled" maze-like remixed stages from past games including 3&Knuckles. :P Sonic 3 & Knuckles is clearly the better game. ^____~

[@derekw8039]

Here's what you do: play both! They rock!

[@ArtistMarkFlynn]

That would have been a significantly shorter video!

[@BILLTHORPE]

I have to agree S3K was great! though never played SM, Does look good though

[@ArtistMarkFlynn]

You honestly do need to give it a try bill. It's a very good game, especially the new characters. Playing as Ray really does feel like playing as SMW Mario with a permanent feather and it's ridiculously fun lol. Thanks for checking out the vid as always!

[@IR4ndI0mIL0wIb0Ib]

Sonic Mania is litterally my favorite Sonic game xD

[@charliekahn4205]

Have you seen Sonic 3 AIR or the various S3&K-replication mods for Mania?

[@ingvildlid3224]

You have to combine s3 and s&k to have the full experience

[@doodledangernoodle2517]

Would you be willing to do the best Mario or Mega Man character design?

[@ArtistMarkFlynn]

Definitely. Want to do both of them in the future.

[@snsnsnsnsnsnsnsnsnsnsnsn]

sonic mania adventure plus 3 director's cut & knuckles

[@SamuelSarette]

Yes, this. Sonic Team should have let Whitehead and team work on their original idea, Sonic Discovery, and not force them down the nostalgia path ("for the Mania")

[@tearlach47]

Would you have settled if Sonic Discovery came out as the 4 new zones alone? The game IMO very much benefited from including the old zones in remixed form. It allowed them to spend much more time polishing the game and having it ready for their deadlines. There are still some rushed parts, notably the ending cutscene being less than ideal alongside the "good ending" to the Plus DLC being absolutely not worth the effort, but there would've been much less polish had they tried to make Sonic Discovery with all new zones, themes, storyline, and even new characters or mechanics.

[@SamuelSarette]

@@tearlach47 Considering how much work went into all the returning zones' act 2s? They could have made a game with 7 zones plus final boss zone easy. The art wouldn't have been harder either since they did recreate all the assets. Nothing was copy pasted, but akin to rotoscoping the originals. Not saying it's easy, but just as much work as they did put in already.

[@matti.8465]

Actually, Sonic Team didn't force Whitehead and his team to rehash the old levels, in fact, they were having problems because the game they had was way too short, so Sonic Team offered the idea and helped. People like to ignore this because it's easier to imagine Sonic Team as the evil incompetent bosses who destroy all creativity.

[@HugoGHA]

I actually prefer Mania over S3&K

[@elijahhernandez3934]

So, just started a new playthrough of 3 and Knuckles, and yes I have Hyper Sonic unlocked. I am at the boss of lava reef act 2. Angel Island: Great but too short. Understandable cause it's the first level. Hydrocity: Wonderful Marble Garden: Meh Carnival Night: You can have fun, but sometimes it is annoying. Ice Cap: It's good, but too linear. Launch Base: It's fine. Mushroom Hill: Amazing. Very explorative and fast paced, Some enemies can be annoying though. Flying Battery: I'm gonna pretend this stage doesn't exist. Sandopilis: Slightly below meh. Lava reef: It's fine but it's too blocky in my opinion.

[@Syma408]

My opinion: Angel Island: one of my favorites First stages, awesome in almost everyway Hydrocity: basically the best water stage of the series Marble garden: not as good compared to the last two zones, have some annoying enemys placements, but still pretty decent, the exploration is rewarding and is a better version of marble zone of Sonic 1 in my opinion Carnaval night zone: a Pretty fun zone with the ballons and some other carnaval stuff, the only thing I hated is the stupid barrel of act 2 Ice cap: one of my favorites zones of the game, excellent balance of puzzles and speed Launch base: has some cool gimmicks and a great scenario, aside that, not to special Mushroom Hill: another favorite First stage, exploration is Very rewarding with the seven super esmeralds and has cool details and gimmicks Flying battery: just a better version of the sonic 2 wing fortess, and way more Fun too Sandopolis: the only zone of Sonic 3 I dislike, act 1 is cool and have cool bosses, but act 2 is Pretty boring with the puzzles and takes too much time to beat Lava reef: have the best bosses of the game and cool details and fire gimmicks, beautiful zone Hidden palace: this is even a zone? Sky sanctuary: my favorite zone, short, but memorable with one of the best genesis tunes Death egg: a competent final zone, is menacing, the enemies are dangerous and the anti Gravity gimmick is great Doomsday: the best final Boss of the classic Sonic games Sorry for my bad english, I Brazilian

[@dreamareakoso3791]

i personally prefer Sonic 3 & Knuckles when it comes to gameplay and story, and that’s coming from a guy who beat Sonic Mania before the other games, though i had been introduced to the series years earlier as a young child playing on the PlayStation 3 through Sonic’s Ultimate Genesis Collection… also if you read Sonic 3 & Knuckles’s title screen, the game is called SONIC 3 Sonic The Hedgehog & KNUCKLES

[@LoudspeakerSayHello]

That was so strange seeing the Sonic Comics again. I'm sure I've still got all mine lol

[@coltonk.3086]

I can confirm your decision isn’t nostalgia based. I agree with everything, and I played Mania only a few months after playing S3&K on the DS. I enjoyed Mania much more then I did Sonic 1&2, and by a gameplay perspective, 3&K, but I much prefer 3&K’s story beats. Check out “Why Sonic 3 & Knuckles matters” by the game apologist.

[@bchristian85]

These games are very, very close. I'd have to give the edge to Sonic 3&K though. The reason why is that Sonic 3&K has no zones that I dislike. A lot of people don't like Marble Garden or Carnival Night, but I like all of them. In Sonic Mania, Mirage Saloon Act 1 and the Chemical Plant Act 2 boss knock a few points off.

[@curioussayian6048]

As a New generation Sonic Fan, I would say Sonic Mania is a great game but Sonic 3 and Knuckles will always be the better game. I say this because I played Mania before Sonic 3 and Knuckles, And when I played Sonic 3 and Knuckles. It was generations better than Sonic Mania mainly because of Story and final boss battle. It had great music 2. And the first time I played Sonic 3 and Knuckles was on my Uncle's Old Sega Genesis. Especially. Sonic 3 air made the game so much better.

[@firebro74]

I wonder why mighty doesn't have his wall jump from chaotix

[@knuckheadknuckles9835]

Sonic 3 was my favorite 2D sonic game and its still today

[@HueManatee]

i think mighty's ability is a bit useless at times, where as all the other characters im constantly using their abilities

[@cashnelson2306]

I agree that a 2D Sonic game with new levels would be so, so nice... but the new levels gotta come after Green Hill Zone. You always start with Green Hill Zone.

[@ArtistMarkFlynn]

I don't mind them starting with a beach again in the next one. Neo green hill in advance was similar but different enough.

[@purpleboye_]

Ditto dude. That's exactly it.

[@danielcohen867]

Sonic 3 and knuckles in my opinion is the greatest platform game and one of my favourite games of all time

[@AlphaZeroX96]

Gameplay is and should be more important than story. Sonic games were never about story. They were about the gameplay.

[@raccoon5446]

i personally think sonic mania is better just because the overall polish, gameplay, special stages (stages in general really) and the smoothness. yes i love sonic 3 and knuckles and its one of my favorite sonic games but if you play sonic mania then play sonic 3 you'll just notice how smooth the mania sprites are. after a while of playing mania you get used to that smooth animation but when you play sonic 3 you can really see the lack of frames. not really too much of a complaint but more of a visual notice. plus sonic 3 is much longer and yes some people may like a longer game but in my opinion i more like a shorter game and i think mania has a good amount of stages. as soon as it gets somewhat boring in one stage there will be an awesome stage to go after. in sonic 3 it kinda felt like somewhat of a drag to get 14 emeralds. mostly because the special stages take a while to complete and going that fast on a checkerboard pattern just used to make my eyes go a little funky afterward. but the sonic mania special stages are a lot better. it's fast and mainly satisfying (mainly because of the drifting when your in mach 3). so yeah thats why i think sonic mania is better plus the dlc: new characters, new special stages, new menu, new cutscenes and all that.

[@cathallynch1]

It's funny, as I really enjoyed the remixed levels in Mania. Maybe I'm too familiar with the older levels, but it's hard for me to appreciate the newer levels.

[@bchristian85]

For me, this is especially the case for the Sonic 2 levels and the Sonic CD levels. I really liked the Act 2 spin on the Sonic 2 concepts. I never could get into Sonic CD as much back in the day and I find the Mania remixes fix a lot of the issues I had with Sonic CD. I also really liked the Mania version of Lava Reef. Probably my least favorite Mania levels are Hydrocity and Flying Battery, simply because they were so good in their original form I don't think they needed a remix.

[@Z3RO5286]

Sonic mania is better for me. I hope we will have more classic sonic games made by the mania team in the future. If we have more classic era games like mania we would be lucky.

[@GamerSpax]

Even by design, I just find 3&K to be superior. I love Mania, but I find it incredibly overrated.

[@lightninja4795]

The game was not suppose to be a game with new bosses and zones it was meant to be a throwback game so why people critcize it for not having more originality when it was clearly said by sega to be throwback game is beyond me.

[@feverdream-x9v]

I also prefer s3k's mechanics lol. btw s3k is a great game and I think that's one of the best games ever: I love the story, the stages, the zones, sprites' style... I love everything about that game!

[@UltimateKyuubiFox]

Why has no game ever made Green Hill Zone the final level?

[@ArtistMarkFlynn]

Donkey Kong tropical freeze did this concept which was pretty cool. Used the first world from returns as the last world in freeze.

[@brazencoronet17]

3&K has the best special stages, level design, and story. Mania has the best engine, the Drop Dash, and presentation. So how about 3&K with drop dash and mania's engine with mania's graphics?

[@RacingStripeAV]

As someone who has only recently played Mania Plus himself, I'm inclined to agree for the most part. The controls and stage design are some of the best I've ever experienced in the series - it certainly _feels_ like a 16-bit Sonic game, if you know what I mean - but the few negatives I did have with it were so glaring to me that overall, while it's a "very good" game, it's certainly the "least good" when it comes to "main-series Classic" Sonic for me. I felt the story was kinda lacking (Eggman + Phantom Ruby = Stage Transition), the bosses were a mixed bag (some were great; others like Chemical Plant 2 and Stardust Speedway 2, not so much.. also Egg Reverie.. really? You're ending with that? I beat it on my first go and I wasn't even trying), and I'll disagree with you on the Special Stages because I personally did not enjoy them (I found the controls too stiff and easily cheesable - there were some instances where I instantly boosted to Mach 3 and collected the Chaos Emerald in under ten seconds - all it needs is a proper way of slowing down because some of those corners are too unfairly hard to take). At the very least, Mania _tries,_ and it succeeds more than it does fail. But I feel that it's in this weird spot where the many good bits are really good, but the few bad bits are really bad. At least for me; I've played better, but I've also played a lot worse. I wouldn't say it's a 9- or even an 8/10 game (it's a high-6- to low-7/10 from me), but it's certainly a very good one. And as an _introduction_ to the series, it does a good job.

[@ArtistMarkFlynn]

That's a very fair take and while I don't agree with everything you've said, there's definitely some similarities in our thought processes. I'd probably give it somewhere between an 8 or 9 as I did love the game play, nostalgic throwbacks, presentation and new zones. AGREED that it's a great introduction and an even better foundation to build on for the future. Thanks for checking out the video, hopefully see you around these parts again soon.

[@MelloWyatt]

If they make a sequel to Sonic Mania the only old stage I would really want them to bring back would be icecap zone but no more then 3 classic zones everything else should be original

[@Prime_Legend]

I fully agree but S3&K as an overall package is better

[@JesusDaLawd]

Green hill zone coming back for the 9000th time

[@MicahBuzanANIMATION]

Don't know if I've ever seen Sonic review type vid where I've agreed with literally everything being said. Stole the words from my brain.

[@ArtistMarkFlynn]

Haha that's amazing! Hopefully there's more of us!

[@CapLikesIceCream]

I do agree mania is a better game, but the story in sonic 3 is just incredible and is perfect for a sequel, but the remakes in mania are perfect so for me both of them are at the same spot

[@Lanuke]

People don’t understand what a anniversary game is of course the have to bring back the og zones for nostalgia but the second act will be completely unique and original it’s a good formula also s3 and k has horrible specal stages while mania has better special stages

[@xenithtn3964]

Sonic cd is my fav but I like all classic sonic games equally

[@mober7430]

Sonic 3 AIR vs Sonic Mania Plus Gameplay: Both Graphics: Sonic Mania Plus Level Design: Sonic 3 AIR Special Stages: Sonic Mania Plus Atmosphere: Sonic 3 AIR Story/Plot: Sonic 3 AIR Bosses: Sonic 3 AIR Box Art: (Sonic and Knuckles box art is amazing, Sonic 3 Japanese Box art is also amazing. Sonic Mania boxart is basically just a better looking version of Heroes box art) Sonic 3 AIR Originality: Sonic 3 AIR Overall: Sonic 3 AIR

[@ICANTFINDNAMELOL]

Who the hell plays classic sonic games for plot

[@saricubra2867]

Sonic 3&K wins because it doesn't have any of the current sonic team toxicity or state of the franchise, it's my 2D favorite sonic game, Adventure 1&2 are my favorite 3D ones also made in a time without any kind of toxicity and Sonic Team pushing the bar.