The Atheist Experience 29.01 with Forrest Valkai and Seth Andrews (

[@TheAtheistExperience]

00:00 Intro 13:31 Arti-(UK) | If Everything Is Atoms, What Matters? 37:59 Patrick-FL | Do What You Will But Don't Infringe On Others 41:14 Samar-(PK) | Comfort In Seeing Loved Ones Again 1:05:04 Nikol-(AM) | Motivation To Not Do Bad Things 1:24:12 Jasyon-(AU) | Questions Of Trans In Society

[@mikewil004]

Put a tag on Forrest's butt-sex line. Please and thank you in advance.

[@mrhdbnger]

I just had the very conversation with my mother in law where I told her that I totally get the feeling of comfort in thinking she will see hubby again. She repeatedly said that she believes it, and I repeatedly assured her that I understand that and I understand why. She also told about not being able to sleep because she was stressed out and a dog was barking and she prayed hard and felt her mother's presence and the dog stopped barking and she got to sleep. This feeling of magical intervention in her life is comforting to her. 25,000 people starved to death that day, many of them in fervent prayer, but God let her get some sleep by letting her dead mom visit her. When she said we will see my FIL again I told her that she will but I am going to Hell in every religion. I get the comforting thought, and would never try to disabuse anyone of that. I just can't believe any of that is true. Gods and magic aren't real.

[@RaineInChaos]

Well not every religion. Plenty don’t have a hell

[@ilonachan]

Also if Anti-God is real, then you go to Heaven exactly BECAUSE you didn't believe she/it was real. so look forward to that! /j

[@cuthbert2546]

I'm an atheist but was raised in a Christian family. We were Episcopalian. My mother always said the good thing about being an Episcopalian was that you could pretty much believe whatever you wanted to 😄🤗. I never had a fear of hell or felt god was watching everything I was doing. It just didn't make sense to me. My doubts began when I was 12 years old and was taking confirmation classes. I asked the priest if people who had never heard of Jesus would go to hell. He said yes, because belief in Jesus was the only way to get into heaven. I was shocked and appalled. So, here I am, 75 yo, believing pretty much what I want to. Thank you, mother, for giving me that freedom of thought. My deconstruction, unlike many others, has been relatively painless.

[@aosidh]

I came to the same conclusion in Catholic RE! No good god would devise that system.

[@RobertDelery]

@@aosidhI deconstructed when I realized I knew myself better than my god knew me.

[@CarolDavis-zt4qs]

Yes, just imagine if a woman gave birth in a remote location, say the bush and the child was taught nothing of religion all it's life. At that childs,or if it became adult, death should it be sent to hell?! Simply for lack of being told a story that others have read or been told! Ludicrous.

[@markdowney9393]

I would answer Arti’s question, concerning value, thusly: Sentient beings are capable of comfort, joy, pleasure and happiness. We are, also, capable of misery. Life is valuable because of love, joy, pleasure and happiness. Meaning is derived by making life a more enjoyable place. I enjoy making my grandchildren laugh and helping their life to be more enjoyable. How does death take that value away? When I’m on my death bed, these memories will bring comfort. When I’m dead, the struggle is over. When I lose a loved one, I take comfort in knowing that I helped make their life more enjoyable. It doesn’t take away all the pain, but it gives comfort.

[@ArtemisFowl_the_curious]

That’s a good answer! I think I came to agree with what was suggested from this call, meaning comes from consciousness and sentience and the fact that that is a temporary result of the atoms making up people existing as they are makes it if anything more precious.

[@BlarglemanTheSkeptic2]

I'd add to that Mark, by looking from the other direction: what you do in this life echoes into the future in the lives of those you influenced (for the better or worse). Your interactions with your grandchildren will be templates that they will use with their grandkids, and on and on. Sure the echoes fade and merge with others, but they matter now and into the future, even when you are gone.

[@Greg-xi8yx]

Death is terrible and man’s rationalization of it is a Stockholm Syndrome-like response. If you could spend a healthy indefinite lifespan with your grandchildren you would. There is NOTHING good about death. It is a loss of a person with unique knowledge and experience and they leave sad loved ones. Atheists really need to get onboard with the life extension and transhumanism communities now that we’re in a technological age fast approaching a cure for the causes of death.

[@chrisll3874]

The conversation with Samar was a breath of freah air. This entire show has been interesting and enlightening. Thank you!!

[@noelgonzalez9549]

I love watching and listening to both Seth and Forrest. The two together is extremely satisfying; both eloquent, intelligent and reasonable. Perfect.

[@stevecaldwell6169]

Thank you both for your intelligence and respectful demeanor. Always a delight listening to you, especially needed now.

[@ScottWoodruff-wh3ft]

Thank you Forrest and Seth. I've been having a very challenging and difficult time, and watching your content has been very helpful to me.

[@kathyheyne6030]

“Why does something need to be permanent to have value?” Anyone ever been to a sand sculpture competition at the beach? You see some awesome art work, don’t you? Truly memorable stuff. We don’t have ice sculpture competitions in Australia, but I imagine they’re the same.

[@rhondah1587]

A delicious meal is fabulous and found valuable in more than one way. Most things we value in this life are temporary. That makes the time we have them precious.

[@ChallengeYourBeliefs]

It's like saying a human being has no value since everyone will die. They are so afraid that they have to say that no one dies. It's just some go to live in an eternity endlessly worshipping a narcissistic god and the rest are tortured for an eternity if you didn't worship a narcissistic god with no evidence of existing.

[@starpenta]

I saw a show once where some monks of some Buddhist -type religion had spent MONTHS making a mandala with colored sandstone rubbings on the sidewalk and one day, some toddler came along, looked at it, and promptly decided to jump on it and run around, completely ruining it. It took my breath away and I felt horrible for a minute but those monks just smiled and reassured his (horrified) mother that it was ok...all things are temporary.

[@joelonsdale]

Would theists agree that their mothers and fathers and children have value? They are also temporary and ultimately pointless.

[@BlarglemanTheSkeptic2]

You'd want to work fast if you wanted to take up ice sculpture, up here in Qld, that's for sure! ... though Tassie in winter is a better prospect.

[@KeplersDream]

My response to the “Were you there?” canard is “Yes, as a matter of fact I _was_ there; and everything happened the way that scientists say it did.”

[@mirandarensberger6919]

"Prove I wasn't there."

[@siezethebidet]

@KeplersDream Brilliant! (And please forgive me for explicitly saying what I think you are already implying😂) Then when they say "No you were not there." Of course I'll say "How can you know I wasn't there? Where you there?" 😂 Afterall, there is a real possibility that the atoms that are ME may well have been there. Whoa, that sounds like some real bong insight there. 🤯

[@triplestandart7613]

​@@siezethebidet I think there is an even more interesting gambit here. What @mirandarensberger6919 said kind of leads there. Because most arguments you could bring up against the claim of "I have been there." are also arguments against religion. So you can use the same rebuttals that theists would use, making the other person argue against these arguments.

[@chuckgaydos5387]

@@siezethebidet If they deny that I was there I'd ask, "Were you there to see what was there, or did you scientifically deduce that I wasn't there?"

[@mmoreno7137]

@@siezethebidet Actually you should say I was there and I remember everybody who was there with me and you weren't there. That way they can't rip off you statement.

[@Lonnie123]

Good duo right here, Seth always seems to defer a bit to the regular hosts to give them the floor to talk more but I always appreciate his perspective and approach and wish he would get more airtime

[@jamescrawford3956]

When he does interject, you know it's going to be good, and he never disappoints.

[@notnotagenius]

Thank you for taking the time to actually answer the Australian caller's questions. It is appreciated as it is refreshing to hear the conversation instead of having it shut down because a person is deemed a bigot for asking questions about a hot button topic that they are honestly trying to understand. I'm a progressive, but I have become disillusioned in the past few years by being told that questioning the nuance of "woke" topics (for lack of a better word) is itself considered hateful.

[@an9l1c1sm6]

Arti, that was a great call! Nothing to be nervous about 10/10. - Random guy from Denmark.

[@Salem1000-xf2fb]

On Nikol's call, Forrest's description of raising a secular society with good morals is exactly how I grew up. It works! In fact, it works better than religious morals because I learned to be a good human out of love for the world and the people around me, not by fear. I'm so grateful to feel true peace and happiness, and to not have the trauma of hell. If any god ends up being real, I have to hope they will understand that there are too many religions out there for me to choose from and that I'm doing my best here with what I have to work with.

[@jo_b7405]

Seth and Forrest Thank You for what you do! You guys are Rockstars!

[@joelonsdale]

They are not rockstars. Saying "you're rockstars" is comparing them to something you perceive as "better" than their actual position. That's like saying to Prince "you're a biologist". Forrest is actually a biologist, a teacher, a KZbinr - all amazing things in their own right. I know it's pedantic and silly, but being called a rockstar is not really a compliment to a biologist, unless you strip the compliment of all meaning and just call it a compliment, in which case just tell them they are amazing on their own terms. Pet hate, hence the rant ;)

[@doneestoner9945]

I think the term Rockstar means they are Super Cool. Right on.

[@Jerrid_86]

i think your overthinking it ​@@joelonsdale

[@Dayna-cd3zj]

​@@joelonsdale Slow down there fella. Saying someone is a rockstar, is just saying someone is the best in their field or in what ever they might be doing with an aspiration for excellence and achievement of excellence.

[@joelonsdale]

@@jo_b7405 I understand and expected push back against my "rock star" objection. If you guys think Forrest and Seth are so amazing that they have earned a favourable comparison with Axl Rose, go ahead. Personally, I think that's quite insulting to them both, but it's your call.

[@anarchords1905]

The excitement that explodes from Forrest when Arti mentioned which science they're in, is a sight to behold. Wonderful.

[@mmare1263]

Such an amazing show. You two together are just like Lauren and Hardy, love you guys ❤

[@markmoseley5083]

I may not be an atheist, but I love this show especially when Forrest and Seth are on.

[@QuarkLeptonTheOriginalRecipe]

Thank you guys . Great show as always!

[@donjuan123]

Seth and Forrest, you’re the best. ( and all your friends)!

[@PsychoMuffinSDM]

Arti, if you are here reading the comments, I really liked the Crash Course series that talked about philosophy. That can at least introduce you to a lot of philosophers and their ideas in a very short time span, and then you can investigate whatever route you want to from there.

[@ArtemisFowl_the_curious]

I am trying to read the comments in between cringing at how stammery I was lol! Thanks for the suggestion, I didn’t know crash course had a philosophy series, I’ll check it out!

[@PsychoMuffinSDM]

@ Oh, you sounded awesome! I loved your conversation. If it makes you feel better, I think psychologically most everybody doesn’t like hearing themselves from recordings. Something about the fact that the way you hear your own voice, like through the bones and meat of your own skull, sounds fundamentally different than how everyone else hears you. In any case, I went and re-reviewed the series, and I found number 16: Existentialism particularly interesting. I really liked the part about the WWII soldier that’s needs to decide to stay home and help his sick mother, or go to war. He can have a big significance for one person, or a small significance, but for many people. You may want to start with that episode. If you like philosophy, another channel I like is Philosophy Engineered! In particular his videos about What is Truth? And also What is Logic? I hope you like those and lmk what you think. Lmk if you want more suggestions, I’ve added so many science, math, and theist response videos to my sub feed, lol. And good luck with the doctorate! It’s a long grueling process, but it feels so good once you’re done!

[@ArcadianGenesis]

I agree with Forest's cosmic nihilism, but I would also add that meaning is an emergent property of biological organisms. "Meaning" is the mapping of sensory-motor inputs to relatively abstract mental representations, which primarily occurs in animals with complex forebrains.

[@kokemon84]

Forrest has a very limited explanation of his understanding of what he calls universal nihilism. Lol

[@grumpyoldman6503]

human ego has a really hard time getting over- 'why am I here? there MUST be a point'. That the cosmos owes you nothing, and doesn't give a $hit either way how you feel about it, isn't a very comforting, even if very probably true 'answer'.

[@ilonachan]

I don't think this is about biology at all then, because artificial digital minds could have exactly the same (type of) mappings, making the biology aspect more coincidental than anything. There's a chance that our biology evolved to come with some baseline meaning concept, similar to a basic moral compass, but I'm not even sure about that bc "meaning" is pretty abstract and maybe not as useful to survival, but who knows.

[@ArcadianGenesis]

@ilonachan I'm not saying that meaning can _only_ occur in biological minds - just that it _can_ be (and, in our case, is) an emergent property of biology. It may be possible for meaning to emerge from non-biological processes as well. However, the literature on embodied cognition has shown that even abstract meaning is directly tied to sensory-motor activity and correlations between them with patterns of thought.

[@PeterColl-b7h]

I'm a big fan of Seth Andrews, but I just wanted to stop by and say to Forrest Valkai, Forrest, I think you are a very bright guy and are a welcome addition to the Atheist experience. You do a great job of arguing your points. I know that you have a rich background in Biology, and I wonder if you have ever considered getting your PHD and becoming a University professor. You have an ability to make complex matters understandable to us layman, and not all people in the sciences are capable of doing that. Anyway, Forrest, we are grateful to have you, Brother. Keep the faith!!! 😂 ❤

[@davidsiegel7882]

Well done Arti for finally seeing the light!

[@4dojo]

Any video that starts with a quote from Ken Ham is gonna be a bumpy ride. 😅

[@Krikenemp18]

"Religion is a domestication tool for humans." 🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯 I love Forrest's way with words.

[@ASM42186]

"Everlasting thought-stopper" is fantastic.

[@lesliefrates4727]

I enjoy listening to either Forrest or Seth, but together they are an informative powerful team! Thanks for starting 2025 in a great way!

[@klaxoncow]

"Were you there?" Well, I mean, my atoms were probably there. Does that count?

[@UnintelligentDesigner]

If everything is atoms, then everything matter. 😐

[@LOH__]

I don’t trust atoms, they make up everything.

[@roybarrows9733]

Two of the best hosts right here.

[@RobertDelery]

Great response Seth

[@EagleLeader1]

Theist here, what a pleasant episode. Especially love the Australian caller struggling with a typical talking point and Forrest's genuine patient answer.

[@shodan6401]

Arti (UK) - I know EXACTLY what you are looking for, and what I would recommend is a framework called "Humanism". There is a Humanism organization. They have even produced three revised Humanist Manifestos. I recommend that you start there.

[@roguebotanist]

I want to say Forest is an Oklahoma treasure but I'm afraid that is an insult because the bar is so low in that state.

[@davidtetard5781]

"They cannot raise to our level". Well said, brilliant.

[@BubbaF0wpend]

Ken Ham monologue Chef's kiss

[@reinku]

Instantly my favorite call from Patrick.

[@psychologicalprojectionist]

13:31 Arti-(UK) | If Everything Is Atoms, What Matters? I can't decide if this is a good question or a stupid question (which probably means it is a good question) I can only come up with questions that it begs. 1. Why does Arti's dad think that anything does matter? 2. What would things have to be made out of in order for things to matter? 3. How would a species that evolved into behaving as if its own self didn't matter behave? Which brings me to my semi-conclusion, perhaps we need to instinctively feel our own self importance in order to successfully evolve. Alas I am a Boh Rap Coda, "Nothing really matters Anyone can see Nothing really matters Nothing really matters to me" Freddie Mercury

[@advorak8529]

1 might well be devil’s advocate

[@hermaj2]

Thanks!

[@stephaniejohanesen3560]

I adore this host combination SO MUCH. Especially when one of these is in PhilosoFace mode.

[@beermakeup4555]

25:55 yess you're on your right track caller 👏👏👏

[@Bonsai529]

I commend Arti from UK. The best question they could have asked was what sources they could check out to explore morality. If they are serious, there are hundreds of philosophy and ethics books and other resources out there written by serious thinkers who aren't selling a religion or a religion's views and so-called values.

[@morganramsay7628]

Seth....greatest poker face ever!

[@FransHesseling]

I am an atheist but I worship you logical guys; you speak so well keep on doing the show forever 😁😆😅🤣😂

[@SlowWalkingMohairSam]

I like what Forest said about leaving the left overs from the main harvest for anyone who is in need. In the neighborhood that I grew up in, there was a wealthy land owner of a strawberry field who would allow us to glean the fields. It was awesome and an indelible memory. I also remember when I attended church, my pastor described this scripture as God's welfare program. Thanks Forest for sharing that thought.

[@Apotheosis-81]

What happens when an entire city of people starts coming for the farmers crops? How much money, time, and hard work does the farmer put forward for masses of lazy people that come like locusts to feed?

[@Goldenhawk583]

@@Apotheosis-81 this happens in china.. whole crops are stolen, some even before they are ripe.

[@Goldenhawk583]

It is a nice idea, and in a rural setting with no available cars or trucks, it would work. In some places, some fields/crops can be afterharvested by locals like your strawberryfield. The problem is modern thieves, they do not care about the mutual respect that is needed here. Sometimes there will not be enough crops to cover the farmers own needs, is he still supposed to give away a part? Not big needs, not money needs, but simply the amount he needs to feed his family and livestock over winter. Is he supposed to kill some animals because he cant feed them, just to feed some possible strangers?

[@advorak8529]

⁠​⁠@@Apotheosis-81 Please take that to your God and/or to the people who wrote these parts of the bible. Maybe God did not foresee the size of cities in the future…

[@Apotheosis-81]

@@advorak8529 Or lazy punk just need to work and make their own or buy their own. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@meinenklinke]

😆 “They were a very impressive they/them.” They’ve got this spirit!

[@chrismurphy9960]

Ken Hamm looks so old I bet he was there at the Resurrection. He's the only guy whose birth year on his drivers license is listed as BC.

[@xmillion1704]

Enoch was his younger brother.

[@David34981]

Yet, he's only 22 years old. Strange huh.

[@chuckgaydos5387]

On the day grass evolved, Ken Hamm yelled at kids to get off his lawn.

[@chuckgaydos5387]

Ken Hamm is so old that: The dinosaurs died out because the neighborhood kids kept throwing their eggs at his house. The Grand Canyon used to be a crack in his driveway. Romulus wanted to build a seaport, but Ken and his friends were playing beach volleyball and chased him away. His family physician was Hippocrates. His first job was holding Rosetta's chisels when she was carving her stone.

[@xmillion1704]

Ken was messing around with the singularity one day when all of a sudden . . .

[@danlistermann9960]

The page count is accurate.

[@aegisgfx]

jesus Forrest do you ever stop working?

[@jonnowds]

Nikoi: not answering the question he was asked, immediately changing it to something he can navigate without challenging himself 🙄

[@chrisll3874]

Lebowski deserves more than one view.

[@rneedham667]

Seth caring about animals makes me like him even more. He has a good heart.

[@Apotheosis-81]

Most of your atheist friends view animals as slaves to be farmed or used as pets for personal comfort.

[@mactallica9293]

​@Apotheosis-81 Please, no one take this obvious bait

[@Biggles2666]

@Apotheosis-81 as opposed to the 'good' book? Genesis 1:26-30

[@tobias4411]

​​​@@Apotheosis-81A gross misrepresentation, a hasty generalization fallacy and a strawman fallacy. Are you proud of yourself, for being a simpleton?

[@Dayna-cd3zj]

​@@Apotheosis-81 You say that as if you're ignorant of what your hole-y babble says about animals. That or you're just playing dishonest projection games.

[@heatherlewis9951]

PhilosoFACE! Stealing that.

[@theoneatyourdoor87]

Jayson had my side eying the screen for a second

[@keifla12]

Omg the first caller makes me think of the stuttering lawyer on my cousin Vinny 😆

[@margopop85]

"I'm just going to go find an ATM" - Jeffery Labowski

[@jonnowds]

Artie: why does anything matter if everything is matter?😂

[@RayHeesen]

""There must be more"" These people want afterlife. That's what it all boils downn to

[@KBosch-xp2ut]

Me too! I wish there was an afterlife! But if I wish in one hand and poop in the other, which one will fill up faster?

[@MrEmpireBuilder0000]

I love that Mark Twain quote about not existing before. NOW... Do I want to live longer? Of course. And this is when I begin to talk about genetic life saving medicines. WE NEED to support this research because it is so goddamn close. You know, rich people here in Asia already are taking expensive stem cel treatments to keep aging at bay. Or in some cases, slightly reversing it. I now have a rich uncle who took stem cels and at least his arthritis went away as well as other aging minor conditions. We have politicians here and rich people who do seem to age so slowly, that they do take forever sitting on their positions of power that people are saying they take stem cel treatments. It's just that my rich uncle is the first confirmation that the stuff is out there. So the stuff does work. It's just expensive. Our task is to accelerate that by supporting it however we can by donating, etc. There's tons of research companies out there. Just look them up. WE NEED this to reach US. They already say the person who will live up to 200 years old is already born. That's how close we are. This is how we have an afterlife. Except OURS is real.

[@cocatfan]

Finally, two good hosts.

[@k1rbyguy]

I hope the Bible at least got that bit with Elisha and the bears right

[@bradchervel5202]

When someone says the buzzword "deconstruction" that's an instant autoskip of a call.

[@Derak-r9i]

Jeez what a day

[@fdameron]

When they ask "Were you there?" respond with "Were you?"

[@advorak8529]

“My God was there and wrote my holy book (which I read selectively so it supports my belief), so I have a great witness there.”

[@fdameron]

@@advorak8529 Every believer says that, none of them can demonstrate it.

[@pathwaysrevealed4442]

Arti, If you are reading this, I had many of the same questions your dad had for you. It was hard for me to find meaning initally after I deconstructed. Maybe I still HAVEN'T found it all the way. But if I could I'd like to recommend you a book "The Myth of Sisyphus" by French-Algerian philosopher Albert Camus. Most would consider the book to be the conerstone of the Absurdist school of thought, and Camus as its progenitor. Absurdism acknowledges the inherent lack of meaning in our lives and daily interactions, but presents it as an opportunity rather than a deprevation. As Forrest alludes to, we are free to find our own meaning, and even find joy in what many could consider pain. We are bound not by universal constructs, but rather our own imagination, using this framework. So long as you don't use your search for meaning to damage or inhibit the meaning of others, there are no constraints!

[@mirandarensberger6919]

I hope it's true that you could stay alive in a fish's stomach for three days if necessary. Why do I hope this? Don't worry about that, I just do.

[@xmillion1704]

“Don’t worry about that. . . . “ That’s funny shit, Miranda! Good luck!

[@donjuan123]

If your takling about the bible… whales Are not fish but mammals

[@mirandarensberger6919]

@donjuan123 The Hebrew doesn't say "whale", it says "large fish". In context, it just meant "large sea creature", because the ancient Israelites didn't make the distinction. Also, it's fiction.

[@xmillion1704]

@ C’mon man. The Bible calls it a fish Jonah 1:17. If you’re going to seem critical of the post of another first be sure that they’re wrong and you’re right. The Bible does not use any taxonomic terminology but simply refers to everything bringing forth after their “kind”.

[@KarstenNygaard-d8c]

​@@mirandarensberger6919 The Catholic Church once declared the beaver to be a fish, in order to feed people during 40 days of fasting 😂

[@Krikenemp18]

I'm fortunate enough to not have been indoctrinated into a religion as a child, and even more fortunate to have been taught enough critical thinking to avoid later attempts. But even though I never struggled between my brain and heart with fear of hell, I think I understand that struggle and the frustration on a personal level. I really struggle with needles. I'm not afraid of the pain or the blood, but my body always reacts by nearly passing out regardless of psychological state, and that feeling is worse than the pain. I'm getting better at staying calm knowing what my body will do, but it doesn't stop it. It's incredibly embarrassing and frustrating to have a grip on the fear mentally but ultimately have no control over the response.

[@coleford4258]

As born and bred southern white guy, I've never understood the negative "black people and fried chicken" stereotype. Every poor white family I knew growing up ate a metric shitload of fried chicken. How was it somehow "less than" for black folk to eat it, but "perfectly reasonable" for white folk? Never got it as a kid.

[@jgs1122]

"Fables should be taught as fables, myths as myths, and miracles as poetic fantasies. To teach superstitions as truths is a most terrible thing. The child mind accepts and believes them, and only through great pain and perhaps tragedy can he be in after years relieved of them." Hypatia (attributed)

[@stephenmansfield2722]

Also recently deconverted Australian. Heart-warming to hear from the Australian ex-Mormon (I was Pentecostal/charismatic). Can so relate to eschewing intellectual exploration for fear of *being deceived*. Religion sucks.

[@PhysiKarlz]

You deconverted from being Australian?

[@digbycrankshaft7572]

​@PhysiKarlz I tried deconverting from being Australian, but it was too difficult

[@nietzschescodes]

13:56 "You're on the… The Line". I was so sure it was The Atheist Experience.

[@Howie672]

Funny Forest and Seth “the voice” it’s gunna be a good show 4:03

[@Howie672]

6:49 if the Bible was true, poor and suffering get mega pay day cause it fits my circumstances

[@Kevin_Williamson]

52:00 -- on the invisible person sitting in the chair, it had limited effect. What I found interesting was that, after a while, one of the kids in one trial tried talking to the invisible person. When he got no response, he and the other kids began to question what was up. So the first kid gets up and slowly walks to the chair and eventually touches it to find out no one is sitting there. Thus, we have a real world example of how skepticism and testing out a claim can lead to atheism. These kids became invisible princess atheists. 🙃

[@StevenMyers-wx6du]

If something in the Bible was true, I would want the personal genie; “ask anything in my name and it will be done.” John 14:14

[@siezethebidet]

Ref: The notion that things must last forever to have value. Permanence, like other notions of absolutes, is an illusion emerging from human imagination in response to emotions like fear and desire. Buddhists monks acknowledge transience (impermanence) by creating beautifully intricate and colorful sand mandalas, (imaged models of a "perfect universe") just to sweep them away once finished.

[@LetusReason101]

I just wanna give some love to Samar, I am from India.

[@pandorabryn]

Arti - look up Humanism.

[@annina134]

To the first caller, the best place for getting more information is the library. Reading is the best way of collecting knowledge and understanding. Imo. 😊

[@ArtemisFowl_the_curious]

Oh definitely, that’s why I asked if they had any suggestions on where to start (very poorly because I was nervous lol). The philosophy section is a big place, especially at a university library, so I was trying to find a place to start. But secular humanism and nihilism seems a good beginning.

[@annina134]

@ArtemisFowl_the_wise you did great. I would be very nervous too, if i had to speak and be heard by thousands of people. 😊 I hope you find what you are looking for. 😊 Greetings from 🇫🇮

[@kylevanzandbergen3285]

Hopefully Arti is able to look into secular humanism since it seems to be a great way a lot of people ground morals without a god, then I’d suggest searching other moral frameworks online, if they feel they need. I think Seth is very correct they’re on the right path.

[@ArtemisFowl_the_curious]

Thanks, I’ll definitely look into it, I really want to find as many possible theories as I can to make sure I’m not just jumping straight from one poorly founded moral system to another. So any suggestion to expand my knowledge base on it is great.

[@stvnnmnn]

It isn't hard to see the value or meaning in things if you have spent your time trying to change the world around you.

[@MercenaryCrow]

What kind of in-ear monitors does Forrest use? I'm looking for a pair like this.

[@advorak8529]

Black ones. Hope that helps. 😊

[@thestillfracture5899]

Would love more information on the "chair experiment" being mentioned in the call with Samar. I engaged Google but didn't find any answers.

[@joelonsdale]

13:31 Arti. Don't worry about the atheist position on meaning (there isn't one) Instead, question your OWN position. Namely, exactly how does god existing give your life meaning? That then brings up the issue that if you are basing your meaning on god, then you better be 100% sure one exists and that you've got the right one, otherwise you've got nothing but a great big maybe, which atheism also offers.

[@ArtemisFowl_the_curious]

Cheers for the question, it’s a really good one. I’ve started that questioning when I first started on this journey and I’m still finding answers, but that’s a good way to frame it that I hadn’t thought before. I’ll definitely think about it!

[@joelonsdale]

@ArtemisFowl_the_wise Nice that you saw my comment and responded. I think a lot of theists think atheism is an ideology like religion and that they have to understand it before changing their allegiance from Christianity to Atheism. That's a mistake. Atheism isn't a religion or a club or anything: it is a one-dimensional descriptive term for a person that doesn't believe in god and NOTHING ELSE. No church, no doctrine, you can think whatever and however you like, you can behave however you like; as long as you don't believe in god, you're an atheist! You don't need to believe in evolution or know how the universe started or how life began.

[@TiKallisti]

If someone mentions "an inanimate object", my mind always jumps to the moment from "in Bruges" where Harry physically abuses the phone and verbally abuses his wife!

[@Krikenemp18]

I don't know how people can take comfort in implausible platitudes with no evidence behind them. Heaven is only a comfort if it's _actually real,_ which I can't possibly know. It doesn't solve my problem unless it actually solves my problem.

[@blehbleh8552]

I wanna say thanks to Forrest for talking about what I call Optimistic Nihilism. I don't know how many types there are, but they do seem to break down to either being pessimistic (nothing matters, so why bother) and optimistic (nothing matters, and that's ok) So many people, including atheists, seem to just think that the only nihilism that exists is the pessimistic kind, which is just wrong, and I'd even go so far as to say that a lot of atheists are optimistic nihilists, they just don't know it. I think Everything Everywhere All At Once was a great display of those two forms of nihilism, and I love it for that.

[@someonesomeone25]

I'm a very happy nihilist

[@jfarismckee]

Love the biology joke!

[@OpenmindedJournalist-p2o]

LOL. Seth, my phone is set up to 'bark' when my husband calls. That's where my mind went.

[@blehbleh8552]

I think part of the problem with Dawkins is the fact that we put him on a pedestal. We did the same with all four of the horsemen, treated what they said semi religiously, and then both them and us are surprised when they say something and are aghast when they expect us to agree with them religiously. Dawkins said something that was taking as transphobic, apologized for it, and then double downed on it. And then he was surprised with his reaction being something along the lines of "Wait, why aren't you agreeing with me? You've always agreed with me, because I've always been right. And since I'm always right, that must mean that you're all wrong." And he's not only acted like we should follow him and his words like a gospel, but he's moved closer to the religion that he claimed to want to destroy not ten years ago. I'd say we should replace Dawkins with Forrest, but maybe we shouldn't put any atheists on pedestals.

[@MrBlompod]

Doesn’t Seth sound a bit like Bill Maher..? 😅 and Seth is so very kind.. he’s awesome 🥰

[@brunorhagal]

Even though Artie didn’t say it in her attempts to reconcile innate morality, she clearly wanted scientific arguments to bolster her burgeoning philosophy. With Forrest’s knowledge of natural selection, I wish he would’ve picked up on that instead of proposing it was philosophy outside his wheelhouse.

[@jenna2431]

If an adult said "Were you there?" I'd laugh and say "Hey, I was once 5 years old, too."

[@kelhayes9647]

I see Seth's link, but where is Forrest's?

[@SteveFergBitbucket]

How good it is to hear that Forrest is a self-proclaimed nihilist... I am too. People use the word "nihilism" to mean a lot of different things. The term "philosophical nihilism" refers to the philosophical position that, not only are there no gods, there are no supernatural entities of any kind whatsoever. That means that there are no gods, no souls, no ghosts, and no afterlife of any sort (heaven, hell, reincarnation). It also means that there is no universal moral code built into nature or decreed by God... there is no such thing as "objective morality." It also means that the idea that our individual lives can have some kind of metaphysical "meaning" is a mistake. There is no such thing as The Meaning of Life, or The Meaning of Person X's Life, built into nature or decreed by God. These facts can easily be demonstrated simply by doing a Socratic (or, if you prefer, analytic) investigation into the notions of "soul", or "objective morality", or "meaning of life". If you push hard and ask people what they mean by these words, you will find that they come apart in your hands like wet tissue paper. It is simply impossible to say precisely what they mean or what they imply. This does not mean that a nihilist cannot make moral judgements... he/she can and does. Human societies develop rules for themselves: religious, moral, aesthetic, courtesy. Those rules are very real and they are what every one of us uses regularly every day. But the nihilist knows that his moral judgments are not based on rules that are built into nature ("natural law") or decreed by a god. This does not mean that a nihilist can't sensibly speak about what they feel gives meaning to their life. They can and do. Similarly, a person can feel that their life has become meaningless (say, after the death of a beloved spouse or parent or child). But the nihilist knows that when they talk about what makes their life feel meaningful or meaningless, they are expressing their feelings and attitude toward life, not making a claim about what does or does not give a metaphysical "Meaning" to "Life". That's philosophical nihilism. Atheism is just one of its facets.

[@keithlupton451]

Why do you continue to talk to Patrick?

[@UntoldRelic]

A comment on the beginning of the episode. 2°F is around -15°C. That's not too bad. Then again, I'm sitting comfortably outside on the porch having a morning coffee in -20°C Québec right now so I might not have good perspective.

[@raymondmccurry9672]

Merde! Ce qui se passe, il fait si froid !

[@mactallica9293]

No wind and the sun being out. - 5°F is a good day still

[@UntoldRelic]

@@raymondmccurry9672 Naw. Try living on Vancouver Island in the winter. You will be more cold at 5° of damp air than -20° of dry.

[@advorak8529]

@@UntoldRelic Add wind. You can freeze to death in +20°C …

[@scotthoenle7693]

Samar believes that as long as I've got my potato everything will be ok.

[@meatloafjoestrickland]

I hope the Bible at least got the recipe for unleavened bread right. I'm not risking a second Passover disaster with a gummy, yeasty abomination.

[@xmillion1704]

Funny shit! I saw Gummy Yeast Abomination open for Pearl Jam . . . I’m pretty sure.

[@meatloafjoestrickland]

​@@xmillion1704😂😂😂

[@PapaBushka]

Ironically, the very conservative church that taught me to think and question things, is also the source of how I came to question the exitance of any god.