Is America A Christian Nation? No. But, Also Yes | Justin Dyer On The Babylon Bee

[@johnmcclain3887]

I am from "your parent's generation" and I'm astounded at how much you make sense to me, and my own thoughts seem to make sense to your own generation that is thinking through all the issues that have arisen in the wake of what has taken place politically in the past two decades. The "more pleasant to live in America my own time, than it is at the present" is very much real, my own children are becoming "grandparents", my great grandchildren are five and eight while my grandchildren are in their late twenties and early thirties into their forties. The "Babylon" reference concept is definitively right in the middle of my own perspective. My own frame of reference was deeply influenced by decades of study of our "founding generation", the notion that to be a "Christian Nation", we must also have the option of rebellion, and "Christian Nation" being a microcosm inside the secular government, a society that can only come to fruition only in a "choice" situation. I went to Beirut in 82-83 and was massively influenced by the fact "we moved freely in the city" while the rest of the world held their breath. The "bombing" shattered all the ease notion some of us had, that we'd encircled and cut off that aberration", and essentially just kicked the can down the road. That experience forced me out of my agnosticism into making a deliberate choice. The "mysticism of faith" remains because one must choose to believe in the possible, beyond what is certain, because in the end nothing but death is certain in our own immediate lives.

[@en5788]

Kyle is just a master interviewer. He doesn't even need to read the book or watch the movie or know anything at all about the person.

[@hughmungusbungusfungus4618]

I think the fundamental reason the US was not founded as a theocracy is that the Founders understood the danger of mixing temporal and ecclesiastical power. The US was intended to be a Christian nation, but the Founders did not want to choose a specific denomination as the official American sect. Nor do I think they wanted the US government to have dominion over the selection of pastors, priests, etc. The fact is that we were given a nation wherein we could choose the path of worship that we thought was right, rather than having that path chosen for us by others, rightly or wrongly. The fall from Grace that occurred as America strayed from the path is evidence of our inherent fallibility, not the fallibility of the Constitution, although that document cannot be perfect as it was created by human hands. In fact, it is our duty as Christians to come to God, not to be pushed to Him by the state.

[@davidwatts1791]

@Justin Dyer Read the Declaration of Independence, which acknowledges that all authority to govern must be according to "the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God"; then quantifies His power as "their Creator"; then submits to His eternal authority as "the Supreme Judge of the world"; then prays for His "support" in their righteous endeavor "with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence". These are all terms related to the Almighty God, a Judeo-Christian God, from the first document relating to the founding of the United States of America. The Declaration of Independence enumerates the doctrine and principles for the United States of America; it is an "Engagement entered into before the Adoption of this Constitution" [Article V of the Constitution for the United States of America] therefore it is a fundamental portion of the Supreme Law of the Land.

[@jmbreece]

It strikes me that discussions like this actually delve deeper into the real issues that we struggle with as a society than discussions that are approached in a "serious" manner. Even though we are firm in our convictions about the topic we can expose the silliness of arguments that we engage in and focus our energy on disarming the enemy who goads us into arguments that expend our energy. For example, we have never really cared if some grown men want to dress up as women, but we draw the line at allowing it in our schools and libraries. Rather than spend all our energy attacking the cross dressers, we need to focus on ways to keep it out of our educational institutions.

[@dw1419]

I know they were kidding but Lewis also wrote a ton of books beyond Narnia and had apologetic speaking engagements, radio programs, debate societies... where Tolkien literally only published the Hobbit and the 3 LOTR books during his lifetime and kept obsessively working on Middle Earth (which I love). Both brilliant scholars but focused on different things. While Tolkien helped Lewis accept Christianity, it's pretty clear that Lewis's choice of ways to spend his time had a greater impact for the Gospel.

[@mikek3979]

Great interview!

[@danielarbizu]

Ever notice that the W is always out on the AFFLE HOUSE

[@jasonthayer762]

Dude! Michael Ward's Narnia Code has changed my life. Santa and Merlin definitely needed to be in the story. Check it out, you will never be the same!

[@georgewagner7787]

Merlin is in the 3rd book of the sci fi series

[@jimluebke3869]

"It was a better country when people pretended to be Christian, like businesses were closed on Sundays" If you take "the Kingdom of Heaven" to mean the extent of where God reigns, and where his writ is on the heart of the people, you could say that simply obeying laws like keeping the Sabbath made this more a part of the Kingdom of Heaven.

[@dominiclapinta8537]

Was Mel Gibson there with the Beaver... But are the chickens used for Chic Fila saved?

[@Bra-a-ains]

You mentioned D&D. Have you player Dragonraid, the Christian version of D&D?

[@brettschlee7090]

You guys should interview William Wolfe, the author of the new book "The Case for Christian Nationalism"... I know you guys want to be fair, and this is (at least) the 2nd guy you've had on to espouse one side of the argument; get someone on the other side for balance. For example, the question you asked "Should America be a Christian nation?"... I've heard (from the other side) the obvious, biblical response "Do you honestly want America to be a pagan nation?" highlighting the fact we're not discussing whether America should have an official religion (now it's atheistic secularism), but rather which official religion should America have.

[@truecross4090]

The Isrealites were God's chosen people even though they often rebelled and did wrong in his eyes. You don't get to choose who owns you, but you get to choose who you follow. Narnia is a Christian nation imo. Created by Christ for the sole purpose of presenting himself to the chosen people in a manner that worked uniquely better for them. We only know of a few of those stories, but are many others. And the end of the books show us that Aslan and Jesus were one in the same. Love those books. We definitely need more like them.

[@Dankness9]

“You won’t see that at a WalMart” lol

[@Nta_winy_lftst]

I always was taught that it was built on Christian values, but the main focus was about freedom.

[@edwardwerkheiser990]

Interesting discussion, I consider myself a Christian but I don't think America is a Christian Nation it was based on Christian values with set the standard that Democratic values must established with a moral perspective, and the moral perspective was dominated by a Christian base. As a Christian I do believe that a belief in God with Jesus as the path to the one and only God will be the value for each individual to decide for themselves. As a society if we want to get back to being successful we need leaders at all levels of government to base all decisions weighed with a moral basis.

[@shannonhawkins3296]

I agree, but I will add that Jesus gave us a MANDATE to share the Gospel with others. We can’t keep that light under a basket. We must share Him with others.

[@edwardwerkheiser990]

@Shannon Hawkins I agree it is yours and my responsibility to share the news of Jesus not governments responsibility. Just as it not the responsibility of schools to impose radical sexual theories on children. Right is right and wrong is wrong.

[@randyh801]

Holy smokes, Telmarines, not Calmarines. Also, just to expound on Aslan. He wasn't symbolic of Christ in those books, he was Christ. ..."there I have another name. You must learn to know me by that name. This was the very reason why you were brought to Narnia, that by knowing me here for a little, you may know me better there."

[@legolasontheshelf3587]

my brother in Christ wants to buy the $400 lego star wars republic gunship. i told him verbatim "dude, its a freaking lego." this has to be some kind of sin right? poor stewardship? O.o

[@patriciaeverett5001]

Kyle, get you some astaxanthin. Natural, affordable, super high antioxidant. Kick that sinus infection right out. :-)

[@thetechboyorg]

Hello

[@DRAKE_DOES_STUFF]

Hello

[@golden-zc5sh]

Yes, on the surface it was. But many founding fathers were practicing unclean practices.

[@jaredhageman4986]

I enjoyed this episode. Dyer seemed really smart, but he loses a lot of credibility by saying he wasn't a big fan of Buc-ee's. :)

[@wutntarnation]

It's founded on Christian principles.

[@user-pd9ju5dk5s]

Like what?

[@thomasb4467]

@@user-pd9ju5dk5s Like all men are created equal by their creator.

[@wutntarnation]

@@user-pd9ju5dk5s What principles did the pre-revolutionary colonists operate on... Buddhist? What religion was practiced by the majority of the population at that time? Hinduism? Jeez.

[@user-pd9ju5dk5s]

@@wutntarnation If you cant answer directly bc you dont have an answer, just say so.

[@user-pd9ju5dk5s]

@@thomasb4467 So equal that Africans were enslaved and every other nonEuropeans faced discrimination under the law?

[@Fantom3l]

Kind of a boring interview that went nowhere

[@amyprecociouslake4806]

C s Lewis.? Was he a ma son? E n u ff said.

[@JPnielsen]

No. But also no. But also it doesn't matter. Is it a free nation is what matters. And the answer is no. There are none left

[@DRourk]

It actually matters a lot.... If it wasn't for the protestant reformation, the US would not exist. The entire concept of individual liberty sprang from that movement. An argument can certainly be made the it was reborn, after dying a couple of thousand years ago, but the reformation was the catalyst for this. It's not a Christian nation, it was a PROTESTANT nation. The Catholics not the orthodox would never have given birth to the US.

[@elijahernst843]

The waffle house has found its new host

[@johnmcclain3887]

I am more than a little amused, I often drive thirty miles to eat breakfast with my son-in-law, at waffle house, because the small diner in my "out in the country town" can't do breakfast near as well as the not local "waffle house". There's half a dozen restaurants within ten miles I simply can't stomach, but have enjoyed "the house" since the sixties, travelling coast to coast visiting family growing up. Some of the most interesting conversations take place on "the Bee" I think.

[@gjdewald]

America is not a Christian nation. It's a nation where citizens choose their religion or no religion. Christianity is certainly a popular religion in America.

[@MrCamaleon7]

"Chose their religion and no religion" That's literally a christian concept and it's only posible in countries founded by christians, you can't do that in china or the muslim world.

[@OathOblivio]

@@MrCamaleon7 it was also Christians who said you had to be a certain religion or your were purged. Not the same Christians, mind, but Christians nonetheless. It is not the religion that allows for this, but the people in it. Japan, a nation of primarily Shinto people, not christians, also a nation that allows for freedom of religion. Same of India, a nation of mainly Hindus

[@gjdewald]

@@OathOblivio America is a nation of self governed free people. At least it was until democrats ruined the integrity of elections, so big government agencies can determine elections rather than a vote by citizens of every State. Freedom of religion comes from the consent of free people, not any religion.

[@OathOblivio]

@@gjdewald I agree, that's pretty much what I'm saying. Religion doesn't mean jack shit. It's the people in those religions who believe in the freedoms we have that matter, not because the religion told these people so. Christianity had nothing to do with the creation of America, it's the people that did. We don't have our freedoms because of the teachings of Christianity and believing in Jesus Christ like our friend Albert is insinuating. People who say that are simply basking in the ignorance and rose colored glasses of their faith. Now, pointing fingers at only democrats is sheer ignorance and ideological posturing. Both major parties are to blame. Democrats are here with new money and big industry manipulating things while the Republicans are here with old money, old industry with oil and gas, and fancy cigars touting the old ways for the sake of influence and wealth, not for the people and at the expense of the people. The only solution is to find better people to represent us in both parties, not just point fingers and mindlessly say "unga bunga one party is worse than the other hurr durr". We prosper when we work together

[@thomasb4467]

Freedom of religion was hotly debated before the constitution was signed. Some wanted there to be four recognized state religions, others insisted that the freedom of religion was essential to allow freedom of conscience.

[@adamb5185]

One of the more boring podcasts of theirs

[@Mahhkz]

I’m a christian and I think chic fla is gross. Bland chicken with a piece of American cheese on it, served on the most average bun possible. Not the worst fast food, but I wouldn’t serve that to anyone.

[@thomasb4467]

No? I like their breakfast. And the spicy deluxe is pretty good

[@user-pd9ju5dk5s]

Agree. I think it’s so overrated. But then again, I find most fast food disgusting

[@DRAKE_DOES_STUFF]

Your going to hell. Haha JK

[@CM1984]

There’s no cheese here?

[@Jpear197]

So true, American cheese doesn't go on chicken and a pickle just makes it awful. 😖